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| fishbulb | hi, I'm getting messages not delivered with yappari | 00:14 |
|---|---|---|
| fishbulb | and I think I might have missed a call | 00:14 |
| fishbulb | the 3g modem is on all the time | 00:14 |
| fishbulb | is there a way I can test that somehow? some diagnostic tests or whatever? | 00:14 |
| Sicelo009N | test what? | 00:15 |
| fishbulb | I have no idea. the modem? | 00:15 |
| fishbulb | gprs/3g | 00:16 |
| fishbulb | that modem | 00:16 |
| Sicelo009N | ping? | 00:16 |
| Sicelo009N | open other websites, etc. | 00:16 |
| fishbulb | yeah that all works | 00:17 |
| fishbulb | maybe yappari isn't working I dunno. | 00:17 |
| fishbulb | though it does.. pretty much. it's only skipping messages from one chick on an iphone | 00:17 |
| Sicelo009N | known problem | 00:18 |
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| fishbulb | shit | 00:45 |
| fishbulb | it is? | 00:45 |
| fishbulb | these are pretty important messages to me | 00:45 |
| fishbulb | that's just an ongoing problem? | 00:46 |
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| Sicelo009N | you may have to buy an iphone or android phone then | 00:50 |
| Sicelo009N | it's a pretty 'big' problem ... we donm5 currently have full textsecure on N900 ... that's the cause of your problem | 00:51 |
| Sicelo009N | *don't | 00:51 |
| fishbulb | what is textsecure | 00:53 |
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| fishbulb | I have no money for a friggen android | 00:54 |
| ceene | encryption protocol of whatsapp | 00:54 |
| fishbulb | I have a tablet... | 00:54 |
| fishbulb | yeah but these aren't encrypted messages | 00:54 |
| ceene | they are | 00:54 |
| ceene | there are android phones for like 60 bucks | 00:55 |
| ceene | second hand shitty ones should cost a fraction of that | 00:55 |
| fishbulb | what are? | 00:56 |
| fishbulb | you know they are encrypted for sure? | 00:56 |
| fishbulb | dude I have this phone partly because I'm broke | 00:57 |
| ceene | yes, they are encrypted | 00:57 |
| fishbulb | how come half of them work then | 00:57 |
| fishbulb | it's just one contact that doesn't | 00:57 |
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| ceene | things that happen when a protocol is kept secret and undocumented | 01:04 |
| ceene | sometimes thing work, sometimes don't | 01:04 |
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| fishbulb | secret? | 01:19 |
| fishbulb | how'd you get this far then? | 01:19 |
| fishbulb | it's not like I'm complaining either this is totally awesome, but then one person freaks out if their messages don't go through, because it's like... one of the reasons I can still keep this phone | 01:20 |
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| fishbulb | I like the improvements too | 02:10 |
| fishbulb | the images go to the image directory with the other photos now | 02:10 |
| bencoh | ceene: have you looked at the other opensource implems? | 02:13 |
| bencoh | (yowsup for example) | 02:15 |
| bencoh | (and whatsapp-purple) | 02:16 |
| bencoh | ah, looks like whatsapp-purple has the same issue | 02:21 |
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| lopx | long time | 02:53 |
| lopx | hi | 02:53 |
| lopx | anyone on? | 02:54 |
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| lopx | i know someone is always on :) | 03:04 |
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| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1498036#post1498036 | 06:05 |
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| ceene | bencoh: yep, and yowsup implements textsecure, which is really the only way to go now | 10:20 |
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| ceene | right | 12:40 |
| ceene | so i have libaxolotl packaged for maemo | 12:41 |
| ceene | still have to check which are the .h files needed for the -dev package, but that's okay | 12:41 |
| ceene | i can start now more or less to implement textsecure on yappari | 12:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wow | 12:56 |
| ceene | most of the work is really from coderus | 12:57 |
| ceene | i just backported it to qt4 and made the debian/ dir | 12:57 |
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| ceene | oh | 13:25 |
| ceene | linking error :( | 13:25 |
| ceene | /usr/lib/libaxolotl.so: undefined reference to `CiphertextMessage::CURRENT_VERSION' | 13:25 |
| ceene | that's simply false | 13:25 |
| ceene | i'm just about to replace that with a #define | 13:31 |
| ceene | i can't see why it doesn't found that symbol | 13:31 |
| ceene | in fact, there are other symbols defined in the very same place in the very same way that don't trigger that error | 13:35 |
| KotCzarny | different data type? | 13:36 |
| KotCzarny | though it looks like a define | 13:36 |
| ceene | nope | 13:36 |
| ceene | it's the same | 13:36 |
| ceene | class CiphertextMessage | 13:36 |
| ceene | { | 13:36 |
| ceene | public: static const int UNSUPPORTED_VERSION = 1; static const int CURRENT_VERSION = 3; | 13:36 |
| ceene | and there are a few more like that | 13:36 |
| ceene | i mean, i could replace that by a define | 13:36 |
| ceene | but... i'd like to know what's happenning | 13:36 |
| KotCzarny | try comparing to the working code? | 13:37 |
| ceene | UNSUPPORTED_VERSION doesn't trigger that error | 13:37 |
| ceene | nor the other consts | 13:37 |
| ceene | there's not much code i can test | 13:37 |
| KotCzarny | try defining them like: public: static const int UNSUPPORTED_VERSION=1, CURRENT_VERSION=3; | 13:38 |
| ceene | ok, it won't hurt | 13:38 |
| ceene | but doesn't make much sense, does it? | 13:39 |
| KotCzarny | when in doubt, ask the wiser, if wiser is not available try black magic | 13:39 |
| ceene | the same | 13:39 |
| KotCzarny | then its in the headers, but not in the .so | 13:40 |
| KotCzarny | check .so which symbols are defined | 13:40 |
| ceene | dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: symbol _ZN17CiphertextMessage15CURRENT_VERSIONE used by debian/libaxolotl/usr/lib/libaxolotl.so.1.0.0 found in none of the libraries. | 13:40 |
| ceene | that's after compiling the .so | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | public: ? | 13:41 |
| ceene | but i can't see why | 13:41 |
| KotCzarny | current_versionE ? | 13:41 |
| ceene | i'll check the warnings, there are a few | 13:41 |
| ceene | na, it's just noise of the output | 13:41 |
| ceene | i've checked the source and there's not versionE anywhere | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think a "public:" is for the whole line of code | 13:42 |
| ceene | it should affect everything that is below the public: | 13:42 |
| KotCzarny | yup | 13:42 |
| KotCzarny | till private or something else changes types | 13:42 |
| ceene | my paste before was fixed by irssi | 13:42 |
| ceene | but it's public | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err hmm, that's not how I thought the syntax of c and c++ would work | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I admit I have no clue | 13:43 |
| KotCzarny | ceene: nm libaxolotl.so.1.0.0|grep _VERSION | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway if "public:" was a switch that changes context for everything after, there must be a sort of "endpublic:" | 13:44 |
| ceene | [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: /tmp/N900/libaxolotl] > nm libaxolotl.so.1.0.0|grep _VERSION U _ZN17CiphertextMessage15CURRENT_VERSIONE | 13:44 |
| ceene | DocScrutinizer05: it'd be private: or whatever | 13:44 |
| KotCzarny | undefined | 13:44 |
| ceene | but in its abscense it should just define verything as public | 13:44 |
| KotCzarny | check the lib compilation output | 13:45 |
| KotCzarny | or maybe its in some other sublib | 13:45 |
| KotCzarny | is it the only .so in that tree? | 13:45 |
| ceene | yep, there's no other .so | 13:46 |
| ceene | i'll be checking the warnings | 13:46 |
| ceene | there must be something somewher | 13:46 |
| ceene | i gotta go now, i'll tell you if/when i find something | 13:46 |
| ceene | thanks, cya! | 13:47 |
| KotCzarny | bb | 13:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd do a stupid thing and simply add a "public: " in front of the " static const int CURRENT_VERSION = 3;" | 13:56 |
| jonwil | By default things in C++ are private | 13:58 |
| jonwil | Wait no, that's not strictly true, it depends on whether its a struct or a class | 13:58 |
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| KotCzarny | his problem is undefined symbol in LIBRARY | 14:00 |
| KotCzarny | not in his code | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/classes/ | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it suggests that a access_specifier affects exactly ONE member | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like I would have thought the syntax of a proper language is defined | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait, I should read to bottom | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heck no, ceene is right: >>...and two member functions with public access: the functions set_values and area,<< | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | c++ is a mess | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | compare >> int a, b; << to >> public: t x; t y; << and the different syntax | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in first the semicolon is delimiter for the type 'int' specifier. in second there is no delimiter for 'public:' | 14:14 |
| * jonwil is no closer to figuring out what libmaemosec and this strange absolute_pathname function is really doing (not just "it gets the absolute pathname" but what the actual bits of code are doing) | 14:15 | |
| jonwil | If I can figure this out I can commit a new set of root certificates no problems :) | 14:16 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 adds a >>goto public: << at random places | 14:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: which line of code is unclear? | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and why is it a problem to start with? doesn't it do just what it's supposed to do? | 14:18 |
| jonwil | The issue is that /etc is a symlink in Scratchbox | 14:18 |
| jonwil | and that function is returning /blah/blah/blah/etc instead of /etc | 14:18 |
| jonwil | meaning the output of cmcli is not what we need it to be for the device | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's exactly what it's supposed to do, no? | 14:19 |
| jonwil | ok, I think I understand it a bit more now | 14:19 |
| jonwil | It gets information about the passed in path (the lstat call) | 14:20 |
| jonwil | then it says "is this a symbolic link" | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually iirc it does a chdir into the provided path and then gets the cwdir (which is supposed to be the plain raw pathname without symlinks) and returns that | 14:21 |
| jonwil | no, the code definatly does more than that | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure it does more, it also checks if the path is absolute or relative, and in latter case it prepends the path to current dir in front | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's quite weird code, but maybe there's a reason for that | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there might be attack vectors otherwise | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or problems with process specific name spaces, or whatever | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas there's little comment in source on why all that is needed | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I asked what's the source of trouble, after all I think it worked so far, no? | 14:27 |
| jonwil | The issue is that /etc in scratchbox is a symlink. | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or do we run into a sleeping bug in that code, in a specific environment that hasn't been tested so far? | 14:28 |
| KotCzarny | for full path it should use realpath() | 14:29 |
| KotCzarny | not some cd&pwd | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe the code is exactly for handling stuff in an unexpected manner in situations like a scratchbox environment | 14:29 |
| KotCzarny | jonwil, you can try changing symlink into mount --bind, if its only for the building package means | 14:29 |
| jonwil | Because /etc is a symlink when cmcli puts path names for certificates into files under /etc/secure/s it stores the target of the symlink | 14:29 |
| KotCzarny | or just change the code in cmcli? | 14:30 |
| jonwil | not the actual link | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so e.g. a chrooted process would still use the system wide cert store? or whatever | 14:30 |
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| ceene | i don't really see why would anything other than tar, backup utilities, etc, would mind if some path is symbolic or not | 14:31 |
| ceene | (hi again!) | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it seems the problem isn't the code but the semantics and rationale behind it | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: same here | 14:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: there are other things as well, like bindmounts and chroot | 14:33 |
| jonwil | Basically the issue is that when you use cmcli to install a certificate, it puts a path to that certificate in a file under /etc/secure/s. On Scratchbox that path is not /etc but /blah/blah/etc or whatever when we need it to be /etc since that's where things live on the device | 14:33 |
| ceene | i can't see why cmcli cares about the nature of the path | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might actually be a bug that processes symlinks in a way originally meant for e.g. bindmounts or chroots | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless we find out about the rationale behind that code, we prolly never will know how it's supposed to work and what's wrong | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it might be everything from noob's cargo cult coding to a highly sophisticated (though maybe flawed) security feature to handle special attack vectors or environments | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | knowing the origins of this code might help a lot. e.g. if it originally been meant for android or docker or whatever | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can't you do a 'git blame' or whatever, to see who and when and why introduced that code snippet? | 14:42 |
| jonwil | The project is clearly 100% Nokia | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ouch | 14:42 |
| jonwil | maemo-security-certman was 100% the work of Nokia | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so odds are it's actually already meant to handle scratchbox environment in a special manner | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly never tested though | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ".. err humm, let's use the host's certificate store when we run in scratchbox..." ? | 14:45 |
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| jonwil | Its got nothing to do with where it gets the certificate store from and no it wont use the host certificate store on Scratchbox as such | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <spews a few dozen lines of code> "... looks good..." | 14:46 |
| jonwil | The symlink in question has nothing to do with the certificate store and is a generic symlink for all of /etc | 14:46 |
| KotCzarny | jonwil, maybe you should provide certs as source and run cmcli during install/reinstall? | 14:46 |
| jonwil | so for whatever reason the people behind Scratchbox decided that /etc in a scratchbox environment would be a symlink elsewhere | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please don't focus on the symlink, it's evidently the pathological case that hasn't been thought of | 14:46 |
| jonwil | The root problem is that the files under /etc/secure/s contain absolute paths to the certificate files (which makes a lot of sense to me) but under Scratchbox, its storing the /blah/blah/etc symlink target rather than just /etc (we need it to store /etc) | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that code is meant to handle something else | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how about you simply comment out that code? | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on target platform it doesn't do anything useful anyway aiui, and in scratchbox it doesn't work | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hey, when you have the author, you could simply send a mail and ask for a hint what's the deal with absolute_path | 14:50 |
| jonwil | yeah I was about to do that | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however see the very next function in code, which is using absolute_path along with a few other tricks to get a process context | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also for processes handled by maemo-launcher | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in this context stuff like optification and the involved bindmounts come to mind | 15:01 |
| jonwil | mail sent :)' | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope it's no ænokia.com mail addr, or you rather had to use aunt google to find a more recent addr to contact the author | 15:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dang! | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ctrl-q | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while searching for æ | 15:04 |
| ceene | i still can't see why this const is then undefined | 15:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 neither | 15:05 | |
| ceene | i'm just about to replace it with a #define | 15:05 |
| ceene | it's just a number | 15:05 |
| ceene | and not used for anything too useful, in fact | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a define is compile time, a public: is exported to the ABI, no? | 15:05 |
| ceene | yes, but given that it's just a const defined in a .h file that can be simply included | 15:06 |
| ceene | it doesn't matter at all | 15:06 |
| KotCzarny | ceene, its undefined in the library object itself | 15:06 |
| ceene | KotCzarny: but why? | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not if that thing is a .so or whatever | 15:06 |
| ceene | i'm the one compilnig the library | 15:06 |
| KotCzarny | some compile error? | 15:06 |
| ceene | nope | 15:06 |
| ceene | i've checked warnings and nothing related to it | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | optimization kicked it out? | 15:07 |
| ceene | could be, i guess | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use it in code, for some nonsense | 15:07 |
| ceene | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5508182/static-const-int-causes-linking-error-undefined-reference | 15:08 |
| jonwil | The email address I found when I made contact with the author of maemo-security-certman came from github | 15:08 |
| ceene | i think it can be that same question | 15:08 |
| KotCzarny | o.O | 15:08 |
| ceene | c++ is fucking weird | 15:09 |
| KotCzarny | mildly put | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [Sun 07 February 2016] [13:10:54] <DocScrutinizer05> c++ is a mess | 15:10 |
| ceene | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5391973/undefined-reference-to-static-const-int/5392134#5392134 | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: sounds good | 15:10 |
| ceene | i believe this is the answer | 15:10 |
| ceene | which of course is nuts | 15:10 |
| ceene | but it's probably going to work, i guess | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:11 |
| ceene | so much for code reusability | 15:11 |
| ceene | i have to type the exact same thing twice | 15:11 |
| ceene | so i can make twice the mistakes i'd do otherwise | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hail c++ | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use inline assembler ;-) | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at very least you know *exactly* what's going to happen then | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | j/k | 15:13 |
| ceene | there's someone right now, with an unwritable name, who is proud of himself for inventing c++ | 15:13 |
| ceene | he sleeps well at nights | 15:13 |
| ceene | prekeywhispermessage.o: In function `.LANCHOR0': | 15:15 |
| ceene | prekeywhispermessage.cpp:(.rodata+0x40): multiple definition of `CiphertextMessage::UNSUPPORTED_VERSION' | 15:15 |
| ceene | keyexchangemessage.o:(.rodata+0x0): first defined here | 15:15 |
| ceene | i'm done with it | 15:15 |
| ceene | that's it | 15:15 |
| ceene | #defines it's going to be | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Bjarne Stroustrup ? | 15:16 |
| ceene | that one! | 15:16 |
| ceene | there | 15:19 |
| ceene | done | 15:19 |
| ceene | now it compiles, and yappari links against it without any problem | 15:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 puts B. Stroustrup next to L. Poettering on his secrete list | 15:19 | |
| ceene | that's a list that secretes people you hate? | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>links against it without any problem<< doesn't tell much yet, you might run into an assert at yappari runtime, like "version of blabla.so doesn't fit" | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((list)) up to you to figure what that list is for ;-) | 15:21 |
| ceene | DocScrutinizer05: i'm the one who is going to write yappari code to match my libaxolotl version | 15:22 |
| ceene | so that won't happen | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) good | 15:22 |
| ceene | maybe my libaxolotl will differ from mainstream | 15:22 |
| ceene | but i don't care much | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never heard of that strange critter ;-) | 15:22 |
| ceene | moreso if this stupid thing is the only one that's blocking my development | 15:22 |
| ceene | yeah, it's a funny name | 15:22 |
| KotCzarny | compile statically? :> | 15:22 |
| ceene | it's the thing that implements textsecure ciphering | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | axolotl, wasn't that an ugly amphibian? | 15:23 |
| ceene | nah, i already have .debs for libaxolotl and libcurve25519 | 15:23 |
| ceene | yeah, it's a salamander | 15:23 |
| ceene | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl | 15:23 |
| ceene | or something like that | 15:23 |
| ceene | i don't think it's ugly, just funny looking :) | 15:24 |
| ceene | looks like a fish with legs | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>As of 2010, wild axolotls were near extinction<< ;-P | 15:25 |
| ceene | poor thing | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wonder what that implies for libaxolotl | 15:25 |
| ceene | as long as wa uses it... it'll have a long live | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 15:26 |
| ceene | not that i'm against crypto, but i find that whenever i have to use some crypto library they are all a mess | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so wa is the zoo for axolotls | 15:26 |
| ceene | i guess it's because crypto is a hard subject in itself, so implementation are also hard problems | 15:26 |
| ceene | but man, all this initialization, keys, prekeys, shared secrets... | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it's mindboggling | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob are the very simple looking basics | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob#Cast_of_characters already gets nasty | 15:32 |
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| ceene | i've read agatha christie's And Then There Were None, which had less people than that and much more gratifying to read and guess whodunnit | 15:33 |
| bencoh | that one was really quite enjoyable, actually :) | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy is where we get to the more interesting things | 15:36 |
| bencoh | (and then there was none) | 15:36 |
| bencoh | were* | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PFS isn't really simple to understand or to implement | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | axolotl is even listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy as one of the implementations | 15:45 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: any idea how to prevent screen going blank after trying to reboot or shutdown? | 16:18 |
| Pali | no idea... | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: hmm? that sounds a tad fuzzy | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | am I missing some context? | 16:32 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: when you reboot N900, display goes black | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, eventually the video buffer gets initialized, yes | 16:33 |
| freemangordon | I want to prevent that, to be able to capture console aoutput | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh you meant after console already went active | 16:34 |
| freemangordon | well, I guess commenting out acx565akm_disable(dssdev); in remove() will do the jib :) | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, during shutdown | 16:35 |
| freemangordon | hmm, no :( | 16:35 |
| freemangordon | yes, during shutdown | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, what you said then. sounds reasonable | 16:36 |
| enyc | DocScrutinizer05: is there a new draft hackerbus spec to look at? | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however you also need to prevent system shutdown then | 16:36 |
| freemangordon | but doesn't work | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: wpwrak hasn't provided a public version yet | 16:36 |
| enyc | okies =) | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe prod him about it in neo chan | 16:38 |
| enyc | ooh oops | 16:38 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what should be done so I to have working serial output from N900? | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: a good question. the classical approach would be to use serial (or other low complexity) interface to export all printout in realtime | 16:39 |
| freemangordon | well, there is serial, I just don't have the way to interface it :) | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | frewuently UART console via a special debug adapter is used for that | 16:40 |
| freemangordon | is there such a way, some standard device to connect to omap serial outs | 16:40 |
| freemangordon | "debug adapter"? | 16:41 |
| bencoh | the debug port below battery? | 16:41 |
| bencoh | "port" | 16:41 |
| bencoh | more pads than port, but ... | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for N900 yes | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's 1V8 TTL UART | 16:42 |
| freemangordon | TTL 1.6V? | 16:42 |
| freemangordon | ops, 1.8 | 16:42 |
| freemangordon | no way TTL :) | 16:42 |
| bencoh | does it go straight to omap? | 16:42 |
| freemangordon | yes | 16:42 |
| bencoh | :/ | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well "TTL" | 16:42 |
| bencoh | sounds like instant fry the moment you do something wrong | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:43 |
| freemangordon | you mean 0V for 0 and 1.8V of 1? | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:43 |
| freemangordon | and what about the connector? can I use some standard plug? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Debug_ports | 16:44 |
| freemangordon | yep, read those | 16:44 |
| freemangordon | doesn;t help much :) | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I'd suggest to solder some thin wires to the testbads | 16:45 |
| freemangordon | won;t do that on my "new" device | 16:45 |
| KotCzarny | do it on the old then? | 16:45 |
| freemangordon | "old" one is my daily device :) | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are generic "phoenix" adaper "pliers" | 16:46 |
| bencoh | /dev/ttyS0 might be wrong on modern kernels | 16:46 |
| bencoh | (it's probably something like ttyO0) | 16:47 |
| Defiant | bencoh: srsly? I thought they abandon ttyO* again | 16:47 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what I am supposed to search on ebay for? | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme try | 16:48 |
| bencoh | Defiant: ah? maybe then | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/servicecableuniversal1.htm | 16:50 |
| bencoh | £55.99 :/ | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: those testpads are not designed for convenient low cost connectors to get attached | 16:52 |
| bencoh | I wonder how it works | 16:52 |
| freemangordon | me too | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: an alternative would be to hack the kernel to use the UART implementation in musbcore instead. the USB allows doing simple UART TX/RX via the D+/- lines | 16:53 |
| freemangordon | I understand nothing from those pictures | 16:53 |
| bencoh | me neither | 16:54 |
| bencoh | especially the one with the stripped board | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a simple clip (acrylic) that presses some pogopins to the DUT | 16:54 |
| bencoh | how does it attach to it | 16:54 |
| bencoh | ah | 16:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the problem is that the bug I chase needs usb gadget driver loaded | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the pogopins sit on a small adapter PCB 'plugged' into the tip of the clip | 16:55 |
| freemangordon | ok, but how to power that assembly? | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess the crocodile clips are meant to contact to the battery blades | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | hmm | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | too complicated for my test | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | *taste | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it gets more convenient and "simple" if you shell out way more bucks | 16:57 |
| freemangordon | example? | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the Nokia test jig | 16:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | a possibly more appealing approch is to hack something like this: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20130719_002.jpg | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20130719_003.jpg ... 009.jpg | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20130719_007.jpg | 17:01 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 17:02 |
| freemangordon | what is this? | 17:02 |
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| freemangordon | I mean - someone made it or you haev it? | 17:02 |
| Sicelo | sre made one too .. and gave step-by-step instructions for someone else to make for themselves | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bought it on fleabay/$seller long ago, for a 5 bucks. Alas I can't find it in the interwebs anymore, only stuff like this: http://www.phoneunlock.com/Nokia-Service-FBus-Cable-Rj45-for-JAF-MX-Box-Saras-Box-x-5-cables-SKU176972.html | 17:03 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: oh, so you have a way to catch serial output? | 17:04 |
| * freemangordon gives DocScrutinizer05 zImage and modules and waits for the logs :) | 17:04 | |
| Sicelo | http://elektranox.org/n900/serial-adapter.html | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.sstparts.com/product.php?aId=5072 | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, that thing connects to BB5 F-Bus, not to the UART pads | 17:06 |
| freemangordon | :( | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/service_cables/box/atf-lightning-nokia-service-cables.htm | 17:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you however can hack that thing moreately easily, you just need to 'move' the pogopins | 17:07 |
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| freemangordon | but I don;t have the serial converter chip as well | 17:08 |
| freemangordon | and I feel too old for hacking such things :) | 17:08 |
| freemangordon | so I'd rather buy something prebuild, or ask somebody on the channel to capture the logs for me | 17:09 |
| Sicelo | ask sre then ;) | 17:10 |
| Sicelo | or he's busy nowadays? | 17:10 |
| freemangordon | I don;t see him around | 17:10 |
| bencoh | I suspect he might want to keep his adapter anyway :) | 17:10 |
| Sicelo | lol, yes .. meant he could get him to test | 17:11 |
| bencoh | since he works on n900+kernel from time to time | 17:11 |
| bencoh | ah | 17:11 |
| Sicelo | freemangordon: tried xmpp? he usually responds instantly | 17:11 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: never used xmpp, besides fbchat and google chat :) | 17:11 |
| Sicelo | okay. email then? :p | 17:13 |
| Sicelo | or i could let him know you need him? but then how does that help | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hacking a standard Nokia FBUS cable should be simple enough. Nokia F-Bus is 3V3 but you should easily be able to modify the 3V3 voltage to 1V8, there must be level shifters anyway | 17:13 |
| freemangordon | well, you can ask him to join #maemo :) | 17:13 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: but yeah, maybe I should mail him | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia data cable it's dubbed | 17:14 |
| bencoh | nokia data cable, the thing that existed back when 3310 was mainstream? | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 17:15 |
| freemangordon | or simply wait for Pali's best friend amongst the kernel maintainers to return from holiday :D | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or finally share your UPS address ;-) | 17:15 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm? you have my address | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I do? | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | yes | 17:16 |
| Sicelo | never seen sre here | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then I probably could find it in my data desert if I already knew it ;-) | 17:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I gave it to you to send me BB-XM iirc | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh! | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and did I? | 17:18 |
| freemangordon | no | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 17:18 |
| freemangordon | because we've solved the problem so there was no need, or somesuch | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah I remember now | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I connected the BB-xM to Europa instead ;-) | 17:19 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 17:20 |
| freemangordon | :) | 17:20 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: 8.04.2015 22:18 | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ta | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will see what I can do | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems you're not eager to do any soldering | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | no | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | I miss the tools needed | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I think I got the tools | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | I don't want to risk breaking a device | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, it takes breaking eggs to make an omelet | 17:22 |
| freemangordon | I have only one old(> 20 years) 10MHz russian scope and 40W iron | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I see | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think my scope and iron are up to the task | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | see, if there is noone to do it, I will, but knowing there are guys better suited for the job, I prefer to not ;) | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stay tuned | 17:23 |
| freemangordon | ok | 17:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how to *send* data from Rigol scope to RS232 ;-) | 17:24 | |
| freemangordon | Pali: i am thinking to enable 550MHz before sending the patch, unless you remember why it is disabled | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEmdHCXhrNk | 17:25 |
| Pali | freemangordon: no idea why 550 is disabled | 17:27 |
| freemangordon | ok, will enable it | 17:28 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: any idea? | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 17:29 |
| Pali | why could be 550MHz freq obsolate and disabled? | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, maybe instable? | 17:29 |
| Pali | for n900? | 17:29 |
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| freemangordon | naah, it is not that one | 17:30 |
| freemangordon | 550 is table | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are quite a few theoretically possible clock rates that simply don't work and thus are deprecated | 17:30 |
| Pali | can you check nokia kernel and kernel-power? | 17:30 |
| freemangordon | it is enabled in stock kernel | 17:30 |
| freemangordon | iirc | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then I dunno. however I don't see it listed in e.g. zzztop | 17:31 |
| Pali | on my N900 with kernel-power 550 is enabled | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | Pali: is it used, according to stats? | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/66210581 seems zzztop only lists *used* clock factors | 17:32 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: zzztop ignores freq that were not used during the measurement | 17:33 |
| freemangordon | :) | 17:33 |
| Pali | kernel-config show that 550 is supported and enabled | 17:33 |
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| freemangordon | http://pastebin.com/FCc54vyi | 17:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* cifsdnotifyd | 17:35 |
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| Pali | here in log https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-07-28.log.html is some info about 550Mhz freq | 17:38 |
| freemangordon | Pali: BTW operating-points-v2 allows for so-called "turbo" freqs, which is an euphemism for OC imo :) | 17:39 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: I see nothing useful there, besides someones preferences | 17:40 |
| Pali | ok, enable it | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | ok | 17:41 |
| Pali | and what for 250MHz? | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | 250 or 125? | 17:41 |
| Pali | 250 is changed to 249.6MHz | 17:41 |
| Pali | and 125 disabled | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | yes | 17:41 |
| Pali | both are correct?? | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/stats # cat * | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | 249600 18015 | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | 500000 41 | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | 550000 0 | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | 600000 4859 | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ | 17:43 |
| Pali | hm... 550 is 0? | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | this is qemu | 17:43 |
| Pali | rigth, so 550 is disabled (so 0) | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | but even on the device, 550 is rarely used | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | no | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | 125 is disabled, so it is missing at all :) | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | Pali: see http://pastebin.com/FCc54vyi | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | this is KP | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | with a charger attached | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | (so 250 is not hit) | 17:45 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: this is what I am going to send http://pastebin.com/EqawsyaG | 17:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_TTL-232RG_CABLES.pdf I'm also lazy. freemangordon would you be content with this USB jack at the end of the cable from your new N900 devel device to your PC?? | 17:47 |
| Pali | still... from where we have that 249.6MHz value?? | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://shop.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip?productID=127&op=catalogue-product_info-null&prodCategoryID=102 | 17:48 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I think it will be even more convenient | 17:48 |
| freemangordon | I guess this is ftdi RS232<->USB? | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 17:49 |
| Pali | also see sre email: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.omap/102766 and his dmesg output: http://paste.debian.net/24628/ | 17:49 |
| bencoh | iirc I used 550 for some time on my device | 17:49 |
| bencoh | before switching back to 600 | 17:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | FTDI TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.farnell.com/ftdi/ttl-232rg-vreg1v8-we/kabel-ttl-usb-konv-abgemantelt/dp/2352004 | 17:52 |
| freemangordon | Pali: from some commit, can't find it now, gimme some time | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: >>This cables require USB drivers, which are used to make the FT232R in the cable appear as a virtual COM port.<< I hope your linux has such a driver | 17:54 |
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| freemangordon | well, it is ubuntu 14.04, I guess it has :) | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | at least there is no problem with FTDi adapters | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, so I'll send you such a cable and a device where it's connected to | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | great | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | Pali: p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } df5c1e60a5213755d31631b7c12bf33bc1a6bb70 | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 17:55 |
| Pali | freemangordon: I know that commit, but do not know *why* is needed now | 17:56 |
| Pali | it is only in linux-N900 tree | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | Pali: so, you think we should use 250 instead of 249.6? | 17:56 |
| Pali | I do not know, I'm just asking :-) | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds sane, LOL | 17:57 |
| Pali | anyway, see sre dmesg: http://paste.debian.net/24628/ | 17:57 |
| Pali | and search for "Cannot find matching frequency" | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | Pali: hmm, seems there were some bug which seem to be fixed | 17:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | more puzzling is >> [ 27.884918] clock: dpll1_ck: cannot round to rate 250000000 << | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 17:59 |
| Pali | there is 124.8MHz 249.6Mhz and 549.6Mhz | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | yes, because it cannot find a combination of mul/div | 17:59 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: ok, I'll try 250 instead of 249.6 | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it tries to round but says it can't | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | makes a damn lot of sense to round 249600000 to 250000000 | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe there's a error threshold that's too small to round that value to next 'even' clock freq? | 18:02 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: http://pastebin.com/CnA4Nh0v | 18:06 |
| freemangordon | seems we can drop that commit | 18:06 |
| freemangordon | this is N900, not qemu | 18:06 |
| freemangordon | Pali: what about enabling 125MHz? | 18:07 |
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| Pali | try... we will see :-) | 18:08 |
| freemangordon | Pali: if we enable 125, there is no need to send a patch | 18:08 |
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| Pali | is Skry (Joni Lapilainen) somewhere around? | 18:09 |
| Pali | I would like to know motivation for that patch | 18:09 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: i remember him hanging on #armlinux and #linux-omap | 18:11 |
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| freemangordon | ~seen skry | 18:12 |
| infobot | freemangordon: i haven't seen 'skry' | 18:12 |
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| Pali | "Adjust MPU OPP values for RX51 -- The OPPs defined in the OPP table don't have exact matches with available MPU frequencies because N900 uses a different system oscillator than other 3430 boards. This is a hack to fix the 250MHz frequency, and also disable the obsolete 125MHz and 550MHz ones." | 18:13 |
| Pali | this is written in commit message | 18:13 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: yes, but it seems this is no longer valid | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, sounds like it couldn't get obsolete | 18:15 |
| freemangordon | Pali: see http://pastebin.com/dYeHwvvz | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/obsolete/invalid/ | 18:15 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: err, sounds like it couldn't get invalid | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I assume you're quoting output of a stock kernel on N900? then please check the oscillator frequency used in the kernel sources, vs the real one in N900 | 18:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: this pastebin is from 4.5-rc1 | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 18:18 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what to check then? | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | when kernel simply assumes a "standard" oscillator freq, then of course the clock freq calculations will be just fine, however the data they base on is wrong, possibly introducing other nasty trouble with timing | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N900 uses a 19.2MHz osc on HFCLKIN | 18:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | G4246 | 18:22 |
| Pali | freemangordon: so patch is not needed... | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | p.4 | 18:22 |
| Pali | or you can specify turbo-mode (disable by default) to have all data :-) | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 18:23 |
| Pali | anyway DT patch for C-states is needed | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: It is rather that patch is wrong, stock kernel uses those freqs as well | 18:24 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: for C-states? | 18:24 |
| Pali | exit latency | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm ok then, strange | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | yes | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | Pali: but that seems too complicated for me :) | 18:25 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: also, we don;t use DT cpu-udle driver :) | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | Pali: in omap2plus_defconfig, there is CONFIG_CPU_IDLE=y, but no CONFIG_ARM_CPUIDLE | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | the same for rx51_defconfig | 18:31 |
| Pali | ok | 18:31 |
| * freemangordon wonders how that works at all | 18:31 | |
| freemangordon | and if | 18:31 |
| Pali | http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg124947.html | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: s/stock/mainline/ | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia kernel uses an allegedly unusual oscillator of aiui 19.2MHz. I wonder what oscillator the mainline 4.5-rc1 uses | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my fault to use the term "stock kernel" | 18:36 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: http://pastebin.com/q2ntZHVS | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is from mainline kernel? | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | yes | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cool shit | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | :) | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | wanna more? | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | looks like 19200 | 18:40 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, thanks | 18:40 |
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| Sicelo009N | ceene: ping | 19:19 |
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| ceene | Sicelo009N: pong | 19:30 |
| Sicelo009N | any idea why my sister can't send me a message on whatsapp (Lumia 520)? she gets a yellow triangle with exclamation mark. | 19:32 |
| Sicelo009N | that's encryption maybe? | 19:32 |
| ceene | maybe | 19:32 |
| ceene | do you see something in your log? | 19:32 |
| ceene | though i've never seen that icon on any android | 19:33 |
| Sicelo009N | hmm, i will check further. let me fire up sqlite | 19:33 |
| ceene | you don't need sqlite for this | 19:33 |
| ceene | just old yappari.log | 19:33 |
| ceene | the thing tha happens now is that someone sends you an encrypted message | 19:34 |
| ceene | yappari then tells them "sorry, only clear text" | 19:34 |
| ceene | and the other party sometimes resends the same message without encryption | 19:34 |
| ceene | but some other times, they won't resend the message | 19:34 |
| ceene | although the next message they send is now clear | 19:34 |
| ceene | this back and forth is visible on yappari.log | 19:35 |
| Sicelo009N | okay. looking. problem is it's been some days | 19:36 |
| Sicelo009N | only now my other sister tells me of this problem | 19:36 |
| Sicelo009N | 2nd sister using Android | 19:36 |
| ceene | type=plaintext-only | 19:37 |
| ceene | you can grep for that | 19:38 |
| ceene | and check if it matches what she tells you, by looking at the context around, maybe | 19:38 |
| ceene | when yappari receives a ciphered message it doesn't send receipt or read acknowledges | 19:39 |
| ceene | so at least i'm sure she won't see green nor blue ticks | 19:39 |
| Sicelo009N | yes, she does say there aren't ticks | 19:40 |
| Sicelo009N | as far as you know, can a user 'control' their side not to send me encrypted messages? | 19:40 |
| ceene | not that i know | 19:40 |
| ceene | but i believe that at least after the first non clear message | 19:41 |
| ceene | the following ones should arrive you | 19:41 |
| ceene | since she can see that you haven't received it, she can send it again | 19:41 |
| Sicelo009N | omg, i see lots of these encrypted things in log, lol | 19:41 |
| ceene | it's tiresome, because her client will forget from time to time that you don't want encrypted messages | 19:41 |
| ceene | so it will happen frequently :/ | 19:41 |
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| Sicelo009N | thanks for efforts thus far :) | 19:42 |
| ceene | i'm afraid they won't be enough | 19:43 |
| ceene | i'm trying to implement textsecure | 19:43 |
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| ceene | but it's quite a hellish thing to do, even more so when i don't really know c++ | 19:43 |
| Sicelo009N | i can imagine | 19:43 |
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| Sicelo009N | btw, noticed Tizen has Whatsapp :) | 19:53 |
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| Sicelo009N | official, i will assume | 19:53 |
| bencoh | ceene: let's just rewrite everything in C/gtk :* | 19:55 |
| Sicelo009N | ceene: do you think/know the supported S40 phones are able to read/send encrypted messages? | 19:55 |
| ceene | can i download that? | 19:55 |
| ceene | Sicelo009N: i'm looking right now at s40 version and yes, they implement axolotl | 19:56 |
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| ceene | bencoh: i'd have to learn gtk then... | 19:56 |
| Sicelo009N | download what? Tizen's Whatsapp? No idea. I saw it on tmo thread regarding update of Z1 or some such... | 19:56 |
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| ceene | yes, i'd like to see it | 19:57 |
| bencoh | ceene: :] | 19:57 |
| bencoh | ceene: looks like you're as fond of GUI development as I am :] | 19:57 |
| ceene | bencoh: i've never coded any gui for anything | 19:58 |
| ceene | i'm just not able to | 19:58 |
| ceene | dunno | 19:58 |
| ceene | well, i did something on visual basic 4.0 :) | 19:58 |
| ceene | i was a hax0r back then, when i was 14 | 19:58 |
| ceene | lol | 19:58 |
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| ceene | if i had to write yappari's ui myself, we wouldn't have any at all | 19:59 |
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| bencoh | haha | 19:59 |
| bencoh | ceene: sounds like me :D | 19:59 |
| Sicelo009N | Tizen --> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1498030&postcount=1 | 19:59 |
| ceene | i can't get a link to download it | 20:01 |
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| Sicelo009N | i doubt there is. likely bundled. :( | 20:02 |
| ceene | i'm not sure if it's native client or if it's android's | 20:06 |
| ceene | they have one thing called ACL that allows you to run android apps | 20:06 |
| Sicelo009N | could be | 20:06 |
| ceene | ACLTM for Linux | 20:07 |
| ceene | that'll allow us to run whatever | 20:08 |
| ceene | so we have to go and pay these people a heck of money, probably | 20:08 |
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| ceene | android's whatsapp is a java written gui + libwhatsapp.so | 20:09 |
| ceene | i guess that all the interesting bits are there | 20:09 |
| ceene | someone could probably use libwhatsapp.so | 20:10 |
| ceene | and forget about all the protocol intrincacies | 20:10 |
| ceene | running, of course, closed source code | 20:10 |
| Sicelo009N | would that .so be useable somehow on N900? | 20:11 |
| ceene | i think so | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or someone could just build a gateway to that whatsapp universe, for more sane protocols like IRC or XMPP | 20:12 |
| ceene | although i haven't studied it much | 20:12 |
| ceene | DocScrutinizer05: the thing is that whatsapp is indeed xmpp, pretty much | 20:12 |
| ceene | replacing all the xml strings with binary codes, just a dictionary translation | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, a gateway would be highly useful | 20:13 |
| ceene | i find however all xml-based protocol to be insufferable | 20:13 |
| ceene | i think there exists one | 20:13 |
| ceene | based on libpurple | 20:13 |
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| ceene | that attachs to a bitlbee instance | 20:13 |
| ceene | so you can bridge irc<->whatsapp | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought of a webservice | 20:13 |
| ceene | if even thought of running an android emulator | 20:14 |
| ceene | and reading whatsapp conversations database | 20:14 |
| ceene | which is just sqlite | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | such a webservice could even provide connection to plain SMS | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | outboubd would cost money of course | 20:15 |
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| ceene | something like that, using real wa as the backend would be useful basically forever | 20:18 |
| ceene | without much burden | 20:18 |
| ceene | i could even charge people for that :P | 20:18 |
| ceene | i've managed to get a tizen image | 20:19 |
| ceene | it's basically lots of partition images zipped into one file | 20:19 |
| ceene | and i've mounted a couple of them | 20:19 |
| ceene | that thing runs systemd | 20:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://xkcd.com/792/ | 20:20 |
| ceene | yes, i could also become an evil master overlord | 20:20 |
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| ceene | bin/TizenInstallerStub: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.3, BuildID[sha1]=cc65549772dd68d7523bd8e0c0f2eeba5c7e4410, not stripped | 20:22 |
| ceene | this thing seems to be the one that installs whatsapp on tizen | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>well, that's where I got stuck<< ;-P | 20:25 |
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| ceene | don't know | 20:27 |
| ceene | really, maybe the easiest thing would be that in fact | 20:27 |
| ceene | running a bunch of android emulators | 20:27 |
| ceene | or whatever | 20:27 |
| ceene | or android for x86, don't know if that exists and if whatsapp runs on that | 20:28 |
| bencoh | ceene: there is a purple-like bitlbee | 20:29 |
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| bencoh | err, strike that. there is a bitlbee-like purple-based gateway | 20:30 |
| bencoh | (there's also a bitlbee purple plugin, but ...) | 20:30 |
| ceene | the best wa implementation right now is yowsup | 20:30 |
| ceene | it implemented textsecure even before whatsapp | 20:30 |
| ceene | ! | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 20:31 |
| bencoh | :)) | 20:31 |
| ceene | i don't know, this whatsapp business bores me a little more each day | 20:32 |
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| ceene | i understand why scorpius got fed up with it | 20:32 |
| bencoh | ceene: do you use it? | 20:32 |
| ceene | yes, but not very much, to be honest | 20:33 |
| Sicelo009N | what makes yowsup hard to port for N900? | 20:33 |
| ceene | i don't speak with anyone directly, but i'm on three groups | 20:33 |
| ceene | and my gf is in all of them too | 20:33 |
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| ceene | Sicelo009N: nothing at all, it's written on python, so i think it would just work TM | 20:34 |
| ceene | but there's no gui for it | 20:34 |
| ceene | it'll be slow and power hungry | 20:34 |
| ceene | but it'll work | 20:34 |
| ceene | maybe i can use that server side | 20:34 |
| bencoh | I'm not sure you want to go that way | 20:34 |
| ceene | not at all | 20:35 |
| ceene | python2.7 doesn't know how to do a non busy wait | 20:35 |
| ceene | :s | 20:35 |
| ceene | even sleep(30) uses power | 20:35 |
| bencoh | haha | 20:35 |
| Sicelo009N | then bencoh could port that python to c for us :) | 20:35 |
| ceene | i was in conversations with the offlineimap folks and the conclusion was that | 20:35 |
| ceene | dunno, i'm starting to think seriously about yowsup server side | 20:36 |
| tm | ceene: yes - we can! | 20:36 |
| bencoh | (talking about offlineimap, you should try mbsync) | 20:36 |
| ceene | tm: lol ! | 20:36 |
| ceene | bencoh: in the end i built an exchange server on a linux server of mine | 20:36 |
| ceene | so my server gets mail, passes it through procmail so i don't get spam on the phone | 20:37 |
| ceene | which in the end is more battery, less data comsumption | 20:37 |
| bencoh | Sicelo009N: no way I'd read python code and parse/pack some binary-encoded-xml in C :p | 20:37 |
| ceene | and exchange on n900 supports server push | 20:37 |
| ceene | so i get mail instantly | 20:37 |
| bencoh | why don't you use modest+dovecot? | 20:37 |
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| bencoh | (or any other imap server on your linux box) | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://blog.whatsapp.com/245/Why-we-dont-sell-ads? is actually tempting to like whatsapp, but then I heard it got raped by suckerberg | 20:38 |
| ceene | because modest by itself doesn't support push email | 20:38 |
| ceene | IDLE command on IMAP servers | 20:38 |
| bencoh | ceene: it has no support for IDLE? | 20:38 |
| ceene | nop | 20:38 |
| ceene | but exchange does | 20:38 |
| bencoh | I wonder how hard it would be to add it to tinymail | 20:39 |
| ceene | so less battery and faster email | 20:39 |
| ceene | i don't like modest either | 20:39 |
| ceene | but that's another issue | 20:39 |
| ceene | gotta go now, guys | 20:39 |
| ceene | see ya! | 20:39 |
| Sicelo009N | bencoh: i've asked many times ... probably lack of interest, or something like that? :) | 20:39 |
| Sicelo009N | myself too dumb for those kinds of things | 20:40 |
| bencoh | Sicelo009N: I don't use it (whatsapp), I don't like reading (or writing/debugging, for that matters) python code, and I dont fancy xml parsing ;) | 20:41 |
| Sicelo009N | i meant tinymail ;) | 20:42 |
| bencoh | ah | 20:43 |
| Sicelo009N | whatsapp ... i can quit it anytime. just going to have to persuade my sisters to use something else (easier said than done though) | 20:43 |
| bencoh | (well I dont use it either, but that doesn't as bad as the other one ^^) | 20:43 |
| bencoh | sound* | 20:43 |
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| Sicelo009N | i use it :) | 20:46 |
| Sicelo009N | almost every little N900 feature i use | 20:46 |
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| Sicelo009N | stock applications mostly | 20:48 |
| Sicelo009N | qalendar is the one main replacment i'm using. omp i use, but do use stock one as well. in addition to modest i use mutt for my gmail. everything else .. stock | 20:52 |
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| Vajb | ok value 0x28 turned surprisingly when i hit over ten cycles. | 22:03 |
| Vajb | now it is 0x0b which i believe means 11 | 22:04 |
| Vajb | in /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/registers | 22:05 |
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| Sicelo | of course, hehe | 22:11 |
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| Vajb | well maybe for u, but for me it was surprise :p | 22:11 |
| Sicelo | 0x means Hexadecimal | 22:12 |
| Vajb | so 0x0j would be 20? | 22:12 |
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| Sicelo | no. no such :) | 22:12 |
| Sicelo | stops at F | 22:12 |
| Vajb | haha | 22:12 |
| Sicelo | F = 15 | 22:13 |
| Vajb | not 16? | 22:13 |
| Maxdamantus | 16 is 0x10 | 22:13 |
| Vajb | ah right | 22:13 |
| Maxdamantus | https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c9468c7f3d7bcef7b0f2d0fdf83328d4 | 22:13 |
| Sicelo | max beat me to it :) | 22:13 |
| Vajb | forgot 10 from my count | 22:13 |
| Vajb | also that comic doesn't make sense to me :p | 22:15 |
| Sicelo | ;) | 22:15 |
| Maxdamantus | 10_2 = 2 | 22:16 |
| Maxdamantus | 10_8 = 8 | 22:16 |
| Maxdamantus | 10_16 = 16 | 22:16 |
| Maxdamantus | generally, 10_x = x | 22:16 |
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| bencoh | ? | 22:17 |
| Maxdamantus | (where `a_b` means the sequence `a` interpreted in base `b` (where b is described in base 10)) | 22:17 |
| Sicelo | i think _ in Maxdamantus' convention means base | 22:17 |
| Vajb | but let me be clear 0x10 is 16, so is 0x19 25? | 22:17 |
| Maxdamantus | Yes. | 22:17 |
| Sicelo | patent that Maxdamantus! before someone steals your idea :p | 22:17 |
| Maxdamantus | That's already fairly typical notation. | 22:18 |
| Maxdamantus | using a subscript to denote the base. | 22:18 |
| Sicelo | yes, that one i knew, but not _ :) | 22:18 |
| Maxdamantus | _ is also typically used to denote a subscript. | 22:18 |
| Sicelo | okay. first time i see it myself | 22:18 |
| Maxdamantus | It might come from TeX, though in TeX you'd have to write `10_{16}` for the last one, otherwise the `6` won't come out in subscript form. | 22:20 |
| bencoh | :) | 22:20 |
| Sicelo | okay. never learned TeX/LaTeX .. still wish to | 22:21 |
| Maxdamantus | It's a horrible system. You shouldn't wish to learn it. | 22:22 |
| Maxdamantus | Although I'm not aware of any practical alternatives. | 22:22 |
| bencoh | haha, usually you dont really want to but have to, because it's the only "sane" solution | 22:22 |
| Vajb | okies. Now i know what value to wait to know when to recalibrate battery. That is 0x1e :) | 22:23 |
| bencoh | Maxdamantus: it's turing-complete! :] | 22:23 |
| Vajb | equals 30 cycles =) | 22:23 |
| bencoh | Vajb: why dont you use i2cget? | 22:23 |
| Maxdamantus | I tried writing a parser combinator library in it once. | 22:23 |
| bencoh | playing with the bq27x registers is fun, but... | 22:23 |
| Maxdamantus | but it's just too confusing a system. | 22:24 |
| Vajb | well i have bnf and i like it. It just lags that one feature i wish to have | 22:24 |
| Sicelo | bencoh: i think he has replacement bme | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> numbers take the form [base#]n, where the optional base is a decimal number between 2 and 64 representing the arithmetic base, and n is a number in that base. If base# is omitted, then base 10 is used<< I suggest ********#077 however, to avoid the base base problem. At least for Seti and for gold plates on voyager | 22:24 |
| bencoh | Maxdamantus: I know a small non-profit that used to have its subscriber information system written in... tex :] | 22:24 |
| Maxdamantus | There aren't really any clear semantics. It's just this massive stack of macro libraries that determine how your program reduces. | 22:24 |
| Vajb | bencoh ^ | 22:24 |
| bencoh | ISP* | 22:24 |
| Sicelo | Vajb: 0x1e in register 0x28? why? | 22:25 |
| bencoh | Sicelo: you can still use it :) | 22:25 |
| Sicelo | yes. not recommended though :) | 22:25 |
| Sicelo | and you've to add some other flag, was it -y or some such.. forgot | 22:26 |
| bencoh | someone (pali iirc) went through the different i2cget calls in the bq27*.sh script and it was safe | 22:26 |
| Maxdamantus | Vajb: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/ada1412f3ef6ae1c440e | 22:26 |
| bencoh | yeah, -f or something | 22:26 |
| Vajb | Sicelo: well to know to let my device turn off by low power to get it calibrated again | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Vajb: bq27200 will _tell_ you when CI=1 | 22:26 |
| Maxdamantus | cc bq27200.c -o bq27200 | 22:26 |
| Maxdamantus | then you can ./bq27200 | 22:26 |
| luf_ | DocScrutinizer05: How is it going with neo900? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're stumbling from one obstacle into next. otherwise fine | 22:27 |
| Vajb | hmm DocScrutinizer05 maybe i've missed that value change, but so far i have noticed the need for calibration when battery measurements go back to stock values and bnf stops working | 22:28 |
| luf_ | That's pitty. | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: well, actually I wrote the script and I checked the i2cgets are safe ;-) | 22:28 |
| bencoh | ah :) | 22:29 |
| bencoh | (are we talking about the same script?) | 22:29 |
| Maxdamantus | i2cget doesn't usually seem to work while you have the bq27200 module loaded. | 22:29 |
| Maxdamantus | (on those registers) | 22:29 |
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| Sicelo | replacement bme won't allow the 'regular' i2cget read | 22:29 |
| Sicelo | yes, Maxdamantus +` | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you talk about ShadowJK's version which is derived from mine | 22:29 |
| bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: indeed | 22:29 |
| Maxdamantus | You can just use my C program, which is derived from ShadowJK's script but doesn't take a second to run. | 22:30 |
| Sicelo | even yours doc. won't run without modification. | 22:30 |
| Sicelo | just tried it now :) | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 22:30 |
| Sicelo | Error: could not sett address to 0x55: Device or resource busy | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's because of bq27200.ko occupies the chip | 22:31 |
| Vajb | yes bq refuses to work with bme-replacement | 22:31 |
| Sicelo | 22:26 < bencoh> yeah, -f or something | 22:31 |
| Sicelo | that's what's needed for that one | 22:31 |
| Vajb | and after bme-replacement goes to "not calibrated" state bnf stops working too | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the dang module exports gibberish to /sys/*/registers | 22:31 |
| Vajb | but if i unload some module (maybe rx51_battery) bq starts to work | 22:32 |
| Sicelo | while everyone's here .. my battery is now never really 100% full. too old i know. or might something else be 'bad' software-wise? | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I felt like "fsck it" when realizing that it needs a whole parser to make sense from /sys/*/registers | 22:33 |
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| Maxdamantus | https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/ada1412f3ef6ae1c440e#file-bq27200-c-L14-L36 | 22:33 |
| Maxdamantus | Like that. | 22:33 |
| Vajb | but today i learnt somethign valuable of hexadecimals. Maybe from now on i give my phone number on hex when asked :) | 22:34 |
| Sicelo | :D | 22:34 |
| bencoh | :] | 22:34 |
| Sicelo | you might be contacted by the NSA | 22:34 |
| Vajb | haha | 22:34 |
| Vajb | who knows, maybe they offer me a job :p | 22:34 |
| bencoh | I kinda remember someone having its phone number in hex form on his CV | 22:35 |
| bencoh | pretty efficient against spam or unwanted job offers, while still reaching the relevant people | 22:35 |
| Sicelo | Vajb: or they remind you of your unpaid taxes haha | 22:35 |
| Vajb | heheh | 22:35 |
| Vajb | but now im off to sleep, nite | 22:36 |
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