IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2016-01-28

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Siceloone other thing on my N900 that's likely related to the weird hwkbd behaviour is: the screen rotates even when keyboard is out11:24
Sicelobut dmesg shows proper detection of slide in/out11:26
Siceloclearly if 'UI' doesn't notice keyboard being out, then I won't get symbol table, or spelling auto-complete when typing using hwkbd11:29
Siceloactually, vkbd pops up occassionally with keyboard slid out11:33
Siceloquestion: what communicates the state of keyboard to hildon* ?11:34
Sicelomce? dbus? or something else?11:35
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MaxdamantusBased on grepping random stuff, I'm guessing ke-recv communicates it over gconf using some /system/osso/af/keyboard-attached property and (presumably loaded in the HIM process) picks it up.11:45
Maxdamantusbut dunno how gconf works, too crazy for me.11:46
MaxdamantusLooks like something called "hulda" is also involved.11:47
MaxdamantusI'd try just killing hulda, ke-recv and hildon-input-manager.11:47
Sicelook. let me try11:48
Maxdamantus  * Removed GConf key /system/osso/af/keyboard-attached, it's now handled11:53
Maxdamantus    by ke-recv-extra package.11:53
Maxdamantuswhich indeed includes hulda.11:53
Sicelono different12:00
Siceloreinstalling it12:03
Sicelono difference reinstalling ke-recv-extra either.12:04
Sicelowhat's annoying is that i can't recall doing anything to change this. crazy12:04
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Sicelo /system/osso/af/slide-open always indicates false on my device. (changes on the other N900)12:26
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MaxdamantusThat's set by ke-recv.12:31
Maxdamantusin response to .. hald-addon-omap-gpio from hald?12:33
Sicelothe plot thickens :)12:34
SiceloMaxdamantus: where are you getting this info?12:34
MaxdamantusDoes /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/platform_slide in the output of `lshal` look .. suspicious?12:34
MaxdamantusSicelo: grepping a backup of my system and the git repository of ke-recv.12:34
* Maxdamantus wonders if it's okay to kill hald.12:35
Sicelooutput in lshal same for both N900. only difference is button.state.value is true on N900 with problem12:38
MaxdamantusCan you see hald-addon-omap-gpio in `ps aux | grep hald-addon`?12:39
MaxdamantusIf I kill that process, it doesn't come back and my /slide-open value is stuck on false too.12:40
Siceloi have hald-addon-gpio12:40
Sicelonot omap-gpio12:41
MaxdamantusAh, yeah, that.12:42
Maxdamantus  916 haldaemo  3652 S    {hald-addon-omap} hald-addon-gpio: listening on /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/slide/state /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/sleep_ind/state /sys/devic12:42
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Maxdamantusthe answer to whether it's okay to kill hald is: no.12:45
Sicelocauses a reboot?12:45
Siceloi'm trying to avoid restarting, lol12:45
MaxdamantusActually, I sent it a USR1 just in case it did something special with that.12:45
Siceloi'll rather remain with problem for a while until other causes reboot it12:46
Sicelo /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/slide/state properly detects open/closed12:48
KotCzarnysicelo, your poor n900 seems to be in bad shape, mine only reboots when battery dries out12:48
KotCzarnymaybe you should consider reflash? and documenting all tweaks you do on the way?12:48
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: slide open/close is logged to syslog. See what you got there and particularly if it suddenly stalls and what else happened around there12:49
Sicelono reflash. what makes you tnik it's bad shape KotCzarny? :)12:49
DocScrutinizer05assuming you use syslog12:49
SiceloKotCzarny: i have bad battery. that's what reboots it too12:49
SiceloDocScrutinizer05: syslog reports no issues12:50
KotCzarnysicelo: things that stop working arent a sign of healthy os ;)12:50
KotCzarnydo you watch swap usage?12:50
Sicelowell i'm not reflashing or rebooting anytime soon12:50
DocScrutinizer05sorry, this was too fast, not even I would have been able to12:50
Siceloswap is ok.12:51
DocScrutinizer05does your syslog still report slide events?12:51
Siceloyes. slide appears fine12:52
DocScrutinizer05hmm, ok12:52
SiceloJan 28 12:50:07 fremantle kernel: [93737.584655] slide (GPIO 71) is now closed12:52
DocScrutinizer05red herring then12:52
Maxdamantussyslog probably just logs it from the kernel.12:52
Maxdamantus(you can also see those messages with `dmesg`)12:53
Sicelothat's where i checked 1st12:53
Maxdamantusor maybe `cat /dev/kmsg`)12:53
Maxdamantusmaybe not that .. EINVAL for me.12:53
KotCzarnydbus monitor?12:55
KotCzarnyopen/close on healthy device, open/close on yours, compare?12:55
Sicelodidnt' have anything interesting when i looked yesterday (dbus-monitor)12:56
KotCzarnybut i mean comparing to working device12:56
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DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: for forensic purposes, do a ps aux>ps-before.txt13:01
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DocScrutinizer05after next boot do ps aux > ps-after.txt13:04
Sicelothere's no dbus signal for slide event on this N90013:04
DocScrutinizer05thought as much13:04
DocScrutinizer05sounds like hald, no?13:05
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DocScrutinizer05dammit, new router, IP of IroN900 changed, no ssh13:07
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DocScrutinizer05ftiggin fritzbox! how do I define a specific IP address for a MAC? I have "always assign this IP to this device" checkmark but I can't edit the IP13:11
Siceloit will reserve the current ip13:11
DocScrutinizer05I want a different specific IP assigned to my device13:12
Maxdamantusdhcpcd -r ‹addr› wlan013:13
MaxdamantusThen see if it gives you that address, and try to set it then.13:13
Siceloudhcpc should have that i believe13:13
Siceloso for my issue... looks like reboot incoming?13:14
DocScrutinizer05how would I do some udhcpc when there's no telnet or ssh?13:17
KotCzarnysomeone tell him about reverse ssh13:18
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DocScrutinizer05I tricked it by limiting dhcp range so it picked the right IP on re-login, but hey that SUCKS13:18
KotCzarnyand that he should set ip on n900 to fixed value with ifconfig, then reserve it on router13:19
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Sicelomeant udhcpc on N900.. that's how N900 requests ip address info from any dhcp server13:21
DocScrutinizer05aaah yep, that would've been my next approach: use fixed IP on device13:22
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DocScrutinizer05and FWIW
Maxdamantusegrep '/dev/input/event[0-3]'13:34
kerioi wish i had a fritzbox13:35
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DocScrutinizer05rather fritzbox than fritzchip13:43
keriothe only viable replacement for my ISP-provided router is a 200€ fritzbox13:45
keriobut, yknow13:45
kerioit's 200€13:45
DocScrutinizer05yeah, the 7490 is 199 bucks, but hey it comes with a number of feature13:46
kerioalternatively i could keep using the ISP-provided router and chain my own router behind it13:47
kerioit supports pppoe bridging13:47
keriobut it's already so huge :|13:47
DocScrutinizer05I attached a 5TB vfat hdd to mine for all media shit, even N900 mediaplayer shows them now and plays them like a charm. also DECT/VoIP/ISDN/POTS/TAM13:47
DocScrutinizer05of course WLAN with all bells and whistles13:50
DocScrutinizer05and basically linux13:50
DocScrutinizer05though no telnet or ssh anymore, GRRRR >:-(13:50
DocScrutinizer05sunno, maybe I need to flash freetz zo it13:51
DocScrutinizer05dunno even13:51
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kerioyea i need a VDSL modem13:58
keriobut apparently the one in the fritzbox is slightly more susceptible to line noise than the one i already have13:58
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, no idea. I wish I had VDSL ;-)13:59
DocScrutinizer05anyway I run the fritzbox as bridged router, since the 'modem' is a fritzbox in my neighbor's office14:00
DocScrutinizer05IOW I don't have _any_ *DSL14:01
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Sicelofinally rebooted anyway. hwkbd working fine14:08
Sicelothanks for the interesting info Maxdamantus :)14:09
DocScrutinizer05damn nice for a router14:21
DocScrutinizer05more complete:
WizzupFeature wise for sure14:23
DocScrutinizer05guest WLAN14:24
DocScrutinizer05not for me though, works only in genuine modem mode14:24
DocScrutinizer05well, I wouldn't want to expose my neighbor's LAN to a guest WLAN, even if my own subnet was separated14:25
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DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: any notable diffs between ps-before.txt and ps-after.txt ?14:46
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Sicelobad -
DocScrutinizer05sort -k 1114:50
Sicelogood -
DocScrutinizer05also that's no diff14:51
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DocScrutinizer05the only faintly interesting thing:
DocScrutinizer05cat ~/tmp/sicelobad | cut -c 26-90|sort >~/tmp/sicsortbad15:11
Sicelothe highlighted stuff? green & pink?15:14
DocScrutinizer05 and don't look exciting15:16
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: actually nothing of all that looks like kbd-related15:16
DocScrutinizer05the red one looks a bit fishy but still unrelated15:16
DocScrutinizer05a pity you got braindead crioppled messybox-ps15:17
Siceloi don't see how those would be responsible. just more likely one of dbus/hald or something else cashed at some point. maybe syslog would have show it if i had been quicker to follow up on the issue.15:18
DocScrutinizer05though maybe here it's irrelevant15:18
Siceloas it was, it had been some days already, and i've got log rotation set up.15:18
DocScrutinizer05ouch :-)15:18
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SiceloVajb: ended up rebooting to fix my hwkbd. working fine now.15:21
DocScrutinizer05anyway I strongly recommend installing procps15:21
DocScrutinizer05messybox is useless, even the powa15:22
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils15:22
Sicelowill do15:22
Sicelobut would that really have helped in this one? i doubt, but i agree it's good for other troubleshooting15:23
SiceloThe following packages will be REMOVED: busybox-symlinks-procps mp-fremantle-community-pr15:24
DocScrutinizer05it however would have cost me a 15 minutes less to figure why my approach didn't work for your ps lists15:24
DocScrutinizer05somebody told me mp-fremantle-community-pr dependency got fixed meanwhile15:25
VajbSicelo: do ou feel like using windows phone? haha15:25
Sicelono. my N900 is all things and more to me :)15:26
Siceloeverything else doesn't matter15:26
KotCzarnywill it blend though?15:27
Vajbim so happy with my idea with panucci. I just wonder why i didn't think of it sooner.15:27
DocScrutinizer05GRRR! pastebin shit15:27
Siceloaudiobook program15:28
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: ^^^15:29
DocScrutinizer05procps:  *** 1:3.2.7-11maemo1+0m5 0         500 fremantle-1.3/free Packages15:31
Siceloit's offering me same one15:32
DocScrutinizer05nfc why I still (again?) have mp-fremantle-community-pr then15:32
KotCzarnysicelo, which cssu do you have?15:33
Sicelo*** 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11+thumb015:33
Sicelothat's my mp-fremantle-community-pr15:34
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, prolly has this problem not fixed then15:57
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DocScrutinizer05hmm no, my community-pr also has it:
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DocScrutinizer05so maybe my procps doesn't mess with symlinks on a busybox-symlinks-procps level, but rather fixes them with some postinst script or sth?16:02
DocScrutinizer05s/level/dpkg dependency level/16:03
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: so maybe my procps doesn't mess with symlinks on a busybox-symlinks-procps dpkg dependency level, but rather fixes them with some postinst script or sth?16:03
DocScrutinizer05hmm, nfc16:04
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ll /bin/ps16:04
DocScrutinizer05-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 97868 2009-11-16 16:02 /bin/ps16:04
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: ^^^ ?16:05
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fishbulbhey is yappari broken again?17:32
kerioopenssl security advisory17:34
kerioSupport for versions 0.9.8 and 1.0.0 ended on 31st December 2015. Those versions17:34
kerioare no longer receiving security updates.17:34
kerioare we going to do something about that?17:35
fishbulbwho is we and what are you talking about17:36
keriowe as in maemo17:37
keriofremantle is still running openssl 0.9.817:37
merlin1991kerio: there are some threads on tmo regarding moving to the 1.x series17:38
fishbulbsecure socket layer17:38
fishbulbwho needs that17:38
fishbulbI need emoticons and whatsapp17:43
fishbulboh it's working again.17:43
kerioyou're welcome17:46
fishbulbhey is this thing running python on my phone becuase it TEARS through battery17:49
fishbulbare you one of the yappari guys?17:49
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kerioit was a joke17:51
kerioi doubt the python is doing that17:51
kerioumts data transfer chews through battery17:51
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freemangordonPali: ping20:05
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freemangordonPali: ping20:57
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ceenefishbulb: yappari doesn't use python, it's written on c++ Qt21:33
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ceenealso, yappari hasn't got any busy waiting, it's event driven, so the battery issue is probably just due to you being 3g connected all the time21:34
ceenebatteries also end up dying, so maybe yours is simply too old now21:35
ceeneevery patch to solve any issue you're experiencing is always welcome, though :)21:35
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DocScrutinizer05guesswork ;-)  For CPU load there is htop (among others), for activity monitoring there's zzztop, and for battery there's bq27k-detail2.sh21:41
DocScrutinizer05and bq27200.sh21:42
DocScrutinizer053g "connected" isn't the problem. Actually data transfer (incl simple pings) in any direction is, though21:43
keriofwiw the last time i tried yappari it was doing all the right things regarding battery consumption21:44
DocScrutinizer05worst thing to happen: your cellular provider doesn't NAT you to avoid inbound pings and other connection attempts21:44
kerioworst thing to happen: cancer21:45
kerionot being firewalled at the provider side is also pretty bad tho21:45
ceenei use powertop to check what happens on the background and yappari isn't a big offender, nor a small one even21:46
ceenealthough it's true that WA servers send a ping from time to time21:46
keriodoes yappari still get me banned from the service21:46
ceenei mean, having it running is of course gonna use more battery than not having it21:47
ceenekerio: only if you create a group21:47
fishbulbit does work, I talk to one person at a time21:51
fishbulbbut something is HOSING the battery21:52
infobothmm... zzztop is - the better and even FOSS powertop -
fishbulbbut does that give times?21:52
ceeneain't that a music group? :)21:52
fishbulbhonestly I should look at the battery graph and correlate it to powertop21:52
fishbulblike when the screen is on, what the modem is doing21:52
Siceloceene: ;)21:53
Siceloi think this has one more Z21:53
fishbulbzz top21:53
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fishbulbis there a good weather app that still works?21:53
Siceloi'd say there are many? foreca works for me21:54
fishbulbwhat are the other ones?21:54
fishbulbhow do I check my phone for a rootkit too.21:54
Sicelodunno, but why would they not work? omweather?21:54
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fishbulbI've tried them on and off and they all had problems with the international date line21:55
fishbulbI'm in australia21:55
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fishbulbso unless someone did more work between like a year ago and now21:55
Sicelohmm, international date line?21:57
fishbulbyeah it always shows yesterday21:57
fishbulbor the wrong day.21:57
fishbulbI'm from the future. ok ther's qtweather 0.0.421:57
fishbulbI mean qtweather+
fishbulbum. is that a stable release21:58
fishbulbomweather shows tomorrow actually22:05
fishbulbthat's literlaly the future, it's having more than trouble with the date line22:06
fishbulbnobody is in that time zone.22:06
Siceloaustralia? let me look22:06
fishbulbtry sydney or melbourne22:07
Sicelofishbulb: what about the related website? what does it show?22:07
fishbulbum. on the phone?22:07
fishbulbwhere is this related website22:09
fishbulbalso omweather is from 200622:09
fishbulbif I can't find the related website by clicking all the buttons I'll uninstall this again22:10
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fishbulbforeca shows the right one22:30
fishbulbman. this phone is slow. a cheap tablet is faster22:30
fishbulbthis is like an abusive relationship22:30
fishbulbwhy can't I let this thing go?22:31
freemangordonPali: ping22:33
fishbulbwhat is the smallest computer with a keyboard22:34
fishbulbI remember when netbooks were cool sony had one that was tiny22:34
KotCzarnydepends what you consider keyboard22:34
fishbulbI sitll have all my netbooks. they're useful.22:34
KotCzarnyn5510 had a keyboard22:34
fishbulbeveryone here obviously considers this thing a keyboard. it's tiny but it works22:34
fishbulbI mean x86 or something22:35
fishbulbmaybe not that but something that's chunkier than this phone. and faster.22:35
fishbulbthis thing doesn't fit in my pocket anyway.22:35
KotCzarnythere are computers that fit in the keyboard22:37
KotCzarnyim in love with my banana22:38
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brolin_empeyfishbulb: Have you considered the BlackBerry Priv?  Reportedly, the end user of the Priv cannot have superuser access, which is probably a deal breaker for me.22:53
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fishbulbI'm looking at some blackberry that runs android22:53
fishbulbI don't MIND android. cyanogenmod is good22:53
fishbulbyou have to have root acces but I have to consider this as a dumb phone22:54
fishbulbtiny resistive screen, there's whatsapp texts and calls. and nothing else22:54
brolin_empeyI prefer the integrated hardware keyboard of the Nokia C6-00 over the integrated hardware keyboard of the Nokia N900.22:55
fishbulbmost stupid apps are just mobile wrappers and there is a browser but sometimes I notice that my life is ending before my eyes while I wait for something to load22:55
fishbulbsymbian? did nokia go insane22:56
fishbulbthat was a cool os back in the early 2000's22:56
fishbulbbut for a 2010 phone22:56
fishbulbok so the answer is still "nothing better than n900"22:56
brolin_empeyKotCzarny: The model of 30-GB Kingston mSATA card I use cost 45 CAD from Synnex in Canada in year 2015. The model of KingSpec 32-GB 2.5-inch PATA SSD I use costs around 40 USD including shipping to Canada from an eBay seller in one of the two Chinas. Which model of PATA↔mSATA converter do you use and what is the price of it?23:01
brolin_empeyfishbulb: Will you consider using the BlackBerry 10 OS?  Then you can have an integrated hardware keyboard.23:03
fishbulbthat blackberry priv looks alright23:03
fishbulba new phone is not in the budget23:04
fishbulbthe budget for living23:04
brolin_empeyfishbulb: The BlackBerry Priv runs the Android OS, not any version of the BlackBerry OS (including BlackBerry 10).23:05
fishbulbit's 600+ dollars23:05
brolin_empeyfishbulb: BlackBerry 10 is based on QNX, which uses a microkernel as opposed to a monolithic kernel such as Linux.23:05
fishbulbI have 2 n900's left23:05
brolin_empeyQNX is also a real-time OS, unlike Linux.23:06
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fishbulblinux isn't realtime?23:19
fishbulbwhat are you talking about23:19
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ceenelinux isn't a real time OS, although there are patches and things23:24
fishbulbI don't really understand23:26
fishbulbfor example the difference between arduino23:27
fishbulband pressing enter, and raspi, is the "real time operating system" which is linux23:28
fishbulbinstead of running just one set of commands over and over and over23:28
ceeneagain, linux is not a real time os23:29
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fishbulbis windows then23:33
fishbulbmaybe this is a level above the most common useage of the two things23:33
fishbulblike, a game cartridge23:33
fishbulbor a computer that can do things.23:34
ceenei don't understand what you're saying23:34
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Sicelomaybe he will understand if you illustrate with N900 .. has it ever happened that phone rings (N900) and it's not possible to answer the call as N900 is busy roating the screen or displaying the buttons? Likely it has. That behaviour is not acceptable on an RTOS23:36
fishbulbok right.23:36
fishbulbI feel like that was explained with bananas. so raspberry pi vs arduino? rpi is supposed to be a realtime os23:37
Sicelohardware :)23:38
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ceenerpi is hardware, arduino is hardware, the software that runs on both of them can either be RT or not23:39
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