IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2015-11-09

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Oksanajonwil, freemangordon : I am not sure what codelockui is, but it could benefit from ability to accept alternative modes of input (like, hw kb, or something) if it does not yet. Actually, it would be great if all those code-thingies used the same numeric-keypad, and this numeric-keypad could be slowly enhanced to accept hw-kb input, handwriting-input, voice-input, and such, with plugins maybe...02:21
Oksana...(not all users would want bloated keypad)02:21
jonwilcodelockui is definatly the keypad input02:21
jonwilits used for device lock02:21
jonwiland sim pin lock02:21
jonwilmore specifically its used by hildon-control-panel, connui-conndlgs-cellular, libconnui-cellular, osso-applet-devicelock and osso-systemui-devlock02:27
OksanaAh, so it is the numeric-keypad used everywhere! Then seeing this LGPL-software RE-ed would be great indeed.02:32
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jonwil is what I have done so far03:08
jonwilThe missing pieces are things I am unable to reverse engineer and need help with03:09
jonwilbut yes once freemangordon (or someone else) finishes the missing pieces it will be possible to improve it "03:10
jonwile.g. portrait support03:10
jonwilor hw kb input03:10
jonwilor etc03:10
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OksanaOn a less serious note: what about EBay Telepathy plugin? To exchange messages with other EBay members? And maybe something else, like feedback, dispute, and whatever?05:46
OksanaI don't particularly like EBay, so feel free to recommend an alternative website for buying and selling (I am mostly interested in electronics)05:48
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OksanaAlso, are there any text editors which can be synced (via plugin or something) with a website ( like ), or output ( via plugin or something) a epub or pdf or something file, and are well-suited for writing a book (rather than  "let's turn text upside down, colour it magenta, and insert video of space shuttle launch" office work )06:29
OksanaIs somebody interested in porting Maemopad+ from Diablo to Fremantle?
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KotCzarnyoksana: google docs?08:15
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klopsi-u3 good morning10:10
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MaxdamantusThough he's gone, supposedly typesetting systems like LaTeX are meant to be good for writing books, since the layout aspects are mostly abstracted away.10:22
KotCzarnyoksana is a she10:23
Maxdamantusor she.10:23
KotCzarnymost names ending in 'a' are female10:23
Vajbdepends of region one is from.10:31
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Sicelogood general rules is that there are no girls on irc10:40
KotCzarnythat's true too10:41
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klopsi-u3 i only know 3 active ones11:22
klopsi-u3no four11:22
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* jonwil has run out of things to work on :(12:29
ceenejonwil: you could always implement textsecure on yappari12:30
MaxdamantusPort the Maemo packages to Debian.12:30
ceeneor help me find out why whatsapp bans people who create new groups12:30
jonwilI dont know the first thing about uappari or textsecure or whatsapp :P12:30
ceeneneither do i!12:30
ceeneso you could be the first of us to learn12:30
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bencohisn't there a libpurple/pidgin plugin for textsecure?12:37
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Sicelojonwil: possibly silly idea .. Ovi Maps wouldn't be considered practical to RE?12:39
jonwildefinatly not12:40
Siceloi guessed so. too big :/12:40
jonwilNot unless a Gecko engine guru appears who can help understand all the Gecko APIs maps is using12:40
jonwilbe back soon, need to get to the shops before they shut :)12:41
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bencohSicelo: why would we do that anyway?12:42
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Sicelo1) make it point to latest compatible nokia maps. 2) maybe even modify it to us N9/Here maps12:45
infobotSicelo meant: 1) make it point to latest compatible nokia maps. 2) maybe even modify it to use N9/Here maps12:46
bencohsure, but why do you want to use Ovi Maps?12:47
Sicelobecause they work :)12:47
KotCzarnyadding 'find address' would be nice too12:47
Sicelonokia's maps are way better than google maps for my area12:47
SiceloKotCzarny: what's find address?12:48
Siceloanother thing that could be added (once someone knows how to extract info from stored maps) is offline search12:49
KotCzarnyenter city name, enter street name, enter building number, map zooms into specified address12:49
KotCzarnyyes, that's what i meant12:49
Sicelook. i was surprised because it is there, just not offline12:50
KotCzarnyeither they keep db online only, or its just a way to keep control12:51
Siceloit seems we have the db offline. but they didn't implement search12:51
Sicelothere's a bug report for it. closed as WONTFIX because N900 is an always-connected device .. that was the 'reasoning' :)12:52
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Sicelolocal search is definitely doable, because OM Voiceserver has something like it12:55
KotCzarnyhehe, sure, always connected, depends on region ;)12:56
KotCzarnysurely it would make those bad modem chip n900s valuable as navis12:56
Siceloyou probably would have an ass of a time trying to get gps lock though. working sim (even without a-gps) helps a lot with lock13:01
infobotrrlp is, like, the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or
KotCzarnyi have never had gps lock, even if my modem works fine13:02
Sicelowhy not?13:04
KotCzarnymaybe i'm too impatient13:04
KotCzarnybut i've tried leaving it on for a few minutes13:04
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jonwilok, back :)13:07
SiceloKotCzarny: try using location-test-gui13:09
KotCzarnywhich package has it?13:10
Siceloit's standalone i believe.13:10
Siceloyes :) nothing depends on it by the way13:12
KotCzarnyalso there
KotCzarnyhow come apt-get is not finding it13:13
jonwilok, so back to thinking about things I can do next for maemo that are actually possible :P13:13
KotCzarnyis it sdk repo?13:13
jonwilyes its in the SDK repo13:13
KotCzarnyjonwil: make a tmo thread asking people13:13
KotCzarnymore read there13:13
jonwillast time I did that people suggested stuff that I cant do :)13:13
SiceloKotCzarny: not sdk afaict13:13
Sicelodefinitely not. confirmed13:14
KotCzarnysicelo, i think it is sdk repo13:14
Sicelo$ apt-cache policy location-test-gui13:15
Sicelo fremantle/tools/non-free Packages13:16
Sicelo$ apt-cache policy sysklogd13:16
Sicelo fremantle/sdk/free Packages13:16
KotCzarnytools might be sdk repo13:17
KotCzarnyanyway, 4 satellites in view, 0 in use13:17
KotCzarnycellmo: online13:17
Sicelothen some patience :) you're indoors? 4 sats is a little too few?13:18
KotCzarnyput the n900 near the window13:18
KotCzarny5 sats, 0 in use13:19
KotCzarnyalso, that repo has sdk-fiasco-gen13:20
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Sicelothere is a "developer tools" repo *and* "sdk" repo13:22
KotCzarnystill no lock13:22
Sicelobad device :)13:23
Siceloleave it alone ..13:23
KotCzarny8 sats, 0 in use13:23
KotCzarnyhow long it should take to aquire a lock?13:24
Siceloi seem to have read 12 mins is a good average for any gps. n900 does suck a bit though13:25
KotCzarny12 mins?13:25
KotCzarnywho designed that technology?13:25
KotCzarny9 sats13:25
KotCzarnyi've read lock could be acquired with 4 sats13:27
Maxdamantusall you need is a compare-and-swap, maybe a futex.13:27
Siceloyes, it can. mine locked with 2 just now (then again, i use my gps a lot now)13:27
KotCzarnypn the positive note it can see sats, getting lock is another story tho13:28
KotCzarny11 sats13:29
KotCzarnyis precise clock a requirement?13:29
KotCzarny12 sats13:29
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Sicelono idea. should not be (because gps should actually update your clock)13:31
Siceloexcept on n900 it doesn't work :)13:31
Sicelon900 - broken by design13:32
KotCzarnynah, only few things broken13:32
KotCzarnysats 5/1113:32
Sicelolocked :)13:32
KotCzarnynot anymore13:32
KotCzarnybut for a brief moment..13:32
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Sicelolots of noise, i guess13:34
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KotCzarnyim not in city13:34
jonwilInteresting, looks like you can get more information from N900 GPS than I thought13:36
jonwillike signal strength of various sattelites13:36
KotCzarnymost sats report 25-35dBHz carrier to noise density ratio13:36
KotCzarnyaccuracy 20-80m13:38
Sicelojonwil: someone hinted that we can even update the time on N900 via GPS ... but i don't think they explained how. but it sounded like the time info is available (maybe dbus?)13:39
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KotCzarnyif you look at location-test-gps there is time included13:42
KotCzarnymight be local time tho13:43
KotCzarnyim happy to know my gps is working, woo13:43
KotCzarny100m accuracy makes it bad for navigation tho13:43
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jonwilstill no closer to finding something useful to do...14:13
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zGrrmoin :)14:19
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ceeneKotCzarny: are you indoors?14:36
ceeneany gps that locks indoors is a pretty damn good gps14:36
KotCzarnywell, i've put n900 just beside the window14:36
ceenein my experience, n900's is a great gps with bad software behind ;)14:37
KotCzarnybut when i was on the vacations i tried n900 lock outdoors too14:37
KotCzarnynear the lake14:37
KotCzarnyit didnt work (or i didnt wait long enough)14:37
ceenethere's clear-gps-cache14:37
ceeneit's a closed source executable i found somewhere on tmo14:38
ceeneand it solves some problems14:38
ceenesometimes some bad data gets stuck and gps' cache needs to be flushed14:38
ceeneif that happens you won't get a lock unless you clear the cache14:39
ceeneit's not something that happens frequently at all, but may happen14:39
Jack64Is there a way to have the clock sync via GPS? It's handy for me cause I don't have a SIM card on my N90014:40
ceenethere should be14:41
ceenethe thing is nokia opted not to use gpsd14:42
ceenebut if there's a way to get gps' datetime you can set time from that14:42
ceeneif n900 used gpsd, we could use ntp or chronyd as is done on normal linux systems14:43
ceenejonwil: maybe you want to RE libgps or whatever and make a layer on top of gpsd, so we can use normal things and still use maemo specific api14:44
Jack64but if there is a way, is it via a menu item or some binary?14:44
ceenei guess it's via some application14:46
ceenejonwil: a gpsd driver would be needed to read nmea messages (don't know if some existing one would work as is) and a library that implements maemo's gps api by reading gpsd data, which is exposed via shm or via libgpsd14:48
jonwilThe best way forward with this would be (IMO) to write something that talks to liblocation (N900 GPS library) and then talks to gpsd as a gpsd plugin14:49
ceenei'd rather have gpsd talk directly with the hardware14:50
ceenejust seems more natural14:50
jonwilIts not that simple, the GPS hardware on N900 is quite complex14:50
jonwilplus the AGPS stuff (handled by location-proxy) is a pain to deal with too14:50
ceenei don't know how gpsd manages agps, if it does14:51
KotCzarnyfor starters even normal gps mode would be nice14:52
ceenealso, having gpsd talk with the hardware and present the maemo api would allow easy porting of maemo to another hardware14:52
ceeneyour idea would only let us use gpsd on n900, which is a very good thing in itself, but incomplete14:53
jonwilOn the N900 the GPS hardware is just another interface on the cellular modem and you talk to it in the same way with phonet/isi packets14:54
jonwil is the header file matching the GPS stuff on the N90014:54
jonwilThere is a low-level library called liblas that builds and sends specific packets14:55
jonwilThen we have daemons called location-daemon and location-proxy that use liblas to talk to the chip via liblas14:58
ceenetoo much complexity for so little :s14:59
jonwilthen liblication talks to location-daemon over dbus15:00
jonwilits complex because it has to handle AGPS (location-proxy exists to act as a conduit between AGPS SUPL server and cellular modem)15:00
jonwilAnd it has to provide other info than just GPS coordinates15:01
jonwillike strength levels for the satellites it can see15:01
ceenebut that is solved with nmea messages by any other gps15:02
jonwilblame Nokia for making it so complicated15:03
Siceloi seem to think jacekowski said time *is* already available on N900 via gps ... but i don't know where you can 'catch' it15:05
jonwilWhats better about using GPS for time, cellular network provides time just fine15:08
jonwilOr is this for cases where you have no SIM or no service?15:08
KotCzarnyjonwil, cell time doesnt work for me15:08
jonwilwhy not?15:08
KotCzarnydont know15:08
KotCzarnyit just doesnt work15:09
jonwildo you have things set properly under "date and time" in control panel?15:10
jonwili.e. the "update automatically" box ticked?15:10
jonwilIf you dont, cell time wont work15:10
Siceloor your operator doesn't send it15:11
KotCzarnydefault after reflash is automatic network time15:11
KotCzarnybut it doesnt work for me15:11
jonwilthere is a dbus command you can run to determine for sure what, if anything, your operator is sending15:11
KotCzarnymagic phrase?15:13
jonwildbus-send --system --print-reply /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_network_time_info15:14
jonwilRun that as root on your N90015:14
jonwiland see what it spits out15:14
KotCzarnyapparently it returns proper values15:16
jonwilok, so go to "control panel" and then "time and date" and what do you see?15:16
KotCzarnyright now i have it disabled because i disabled it manually, but after flash/rebooting its ticked15:17
KotCzarnyhow often that automatic setting is called?15:17
jonwilif you tick it then close the control panel what exactly happens?15:17
jonwilSometimes I find that setting the time and date manually then ticking the automatic box makes things work15:18
KotCzarnynothing because time was already set15:18
SiceloJack64: try gpsrecorder for setting time from gps :)15:20
Sicelobug 10163  last comment15:20
povbotBug GPS does not automatically set time of device.15:20
bencohis there some hook script when connecting to wifi/gprs?15:24
Siceloguess you'd have to create your own ..listen via dbus?15:26
jonwildont know of any easy way to listen for gps activation via dbus15:35
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Siceloby the way, can one boot own distro on the jolla?15:50
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zGrrOn the Jolla tablet?16:34
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Sicelothat, or the phone...16:36
KotCzarny~wiki jolla16:37
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the company|the smartphone|Jolla (mobile phone)|the tablet|Jolla Tablet|other uses}} {{Use mdy dates|date=July 2012}} {{Infobox company |name = Jolla Oy |logo = |caption = |type = Private |traded_as = |industry = Mobile devices, Consgaumer Electronics/Devices |predecessor = MeeGo team from Nokia |foundation = Pirkkala, Finland ({{Start date|2011|03|29}}) |founder = {{u16:37
KotCzarnyoh well16:37
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bencohSicelo: they run a modified android kernel16:46
bencohwith some libhybris adaptation16:46
Sicelooh gosh! why?16:47
bencohbecause qualcomm16:47
bencohand gfx drivers and that kind of stuff16:47
bencohI haven't looked into that for quite some time so maybe I'm wrong and that was for another device/design, but iirc that's how it works16:48
bencohI know for sure that's how sailfishos works for community ports16:49
bencoh(on nexus*)16:49
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zGrrSicelo:  i guess, it will be much easier with the Jolla Phone, than with Jolla Tablet. I only guess, because i don't know because i still wait for my jolla tablet.16:57
zGrrSicelo:  but then, why would you even want to boot your on distro on jolla phone?16:59
Sicelowhy would i not? :)17:01
Siceloi can do it on N90017:01
zGrrSicelo:  but n900 is (more or less) open platform. jolla phone is as open as soviet union once was.17:02
Sicelohaha. it's a pity though17:04
zGrrIt should be different with jolla tablet, but then i expect them to completely lock it with uefi crap.17:05
SiceloN900 won't last forever .. we may love it  & its hw kbd .. but at some point we will be basically forced to move on. looks like we'll go back to feature phones after all17:06
zGrri have the same problem.17:06
Jack64Sicelo: thanks for the gpsrecorder tip, just "apt-got" it :)17:06
KotCzarnysicelo: stock up on n900s then!17:07
Siceloyw Jack64.17:07
KotCzarnyi have 3.5 already17:07
zGrrhopefuly dragonbox pyra would come out before my n900 dies. or neo90017:07
Sicelonot all of us can afford to stock up :(17:07
KotCzarnyi bought them as cheap as ~25usd17:07
Siceloi have 2 and already feel blessed17:07
KotCzarnyone has to watch local classifieds sites tho17:07
zGrrKotCzarny:  REALLY? where?17:08
KotCzarnyzgrr: olx.pl17:08
Sicelobout my 2nd for USD14 :)17:08
bencoh"It should be different with jolla tablet" you mean, with a locked intel plateform? :p17:08
KotCzarnybencoh, confusing marketing is the best marketing17:09
Sicelobut .. can't see others, so not much luck anymore. besides, even $14 is a lot of money here17:09
KotCzarnysicelo, still, its much cheaper than neo90017:09
Siceloof course. i don't even dream of that in wild dreams17:09
zGrrbencoh:  since the hardware is fairly open - more or less generic intel it should be easy to install more or less anything you want, right?17:10
bencohdepends on what you want to do with too17:10
zGrrbencoh:  but i suppose, they would want to lock it to prevent owners from installing anything they want. how can they do that? with uefi of course! secure boot or whatever they call this shit.17:11
bencohsomething like that yeah17:12
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Sicelo009Nas long as i can run linux on it, and have as much of the hardware working17:15
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Sicelo/com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.get_network_time_info17:19
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zGrrSicelo:  well, it probably can run linux, but you might not be able to install linux.17:23
zGrrbut there are no jolla tablets yet.17:23
zGrrexcept these 200 or so prototypes, they generously sent to some people.17:24
zGrrKotCzarny:  very interesting site, this olx.pl17:25
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zGrrKotCzarny:  you can get a broken n900 in very good shape for 80zł.17:26
zGrrKotCzarny:  maybe it could  be used as a "body donor" for neo900 mainboard?17:26
zGrror for parts17:27
KotCzarnyusually broken == bad usb port17:42
KotCzarnyalso, sometimes you can get pretty much working device with bad sw or simple to fix17:44
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KotCzarnyone of n900 i bought cheaply was 'no sd card/camera button not working'. fix was just replacing back cover17:44
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KotCzarnyso if one looks quite often can get good one cheaply17:45
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OksanaaNokia N900 is calling itself BCM2048B0 Initialization Configuration. Whyever...21:46
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Siceloomg! there's even an 'ex-council22:32
Siceloomg! there's even an 'ex-council cloak22:32
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KotCzarnyhow about owner/n900 cloak?22:34
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SiceloOksanaa: yes, the name occasionally changes. comes from the bluetooth23:06
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OksanaaThank you!23:22
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Sicelobug 856323:24
povbotBug Device ID reset to "BCM2048B0 Initialization Configuration"23:24
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OksanaNot sure what steps, either. Should be noted that microUSB is broken (so nothing charger-related, unless the device sees phantoms), and I wasn't using bluetooth (though I did accidentally switch on FM transmitter from hildon-status-menu which may or may not be related... they are on the same chip)23:40
Siceloi think it's just a hiccup when loading the driver/module. fails to read the name set before possibly23:42
OksanaYes. But it is difficult to reproduce...23:53

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