IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2015-10-11

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infobotsomebody said maemo-flashing was, or - on linux PC - download&extract, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh10:18
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, got a device here that asks for lockcode *after* flashing12:48
KotCzarnyremoving lock code is easy12:49
infoboti heard lockcode is
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo lockcode12:49
infobotlockcode -- created by Termana <> at Thu Oct 28 11:44:48 2010 (1808 days); it has been requested 12 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 36s ago.12:49
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, rescueOS is pretty convenient14:05
DocScrutinizer05after finally telling network manager to STFU and leave alone the "modem"...14:06
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> sudo /sbin/ifconfig enp0s29u1u8i8 up14:06
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> sudo /sbin/ifconfig enp0s29u1u8i8 netmask
DocScrutinizer05((FSCK avahi, FSCK new udev, FSCK L.P.!)14:07
DocScrutinizer05(do me a favor and try to memorize and type "enp0s29u1u8i8")14:08
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> telnet -l user
DocScrutinizer05Connected to
DocScrutinizer05/rescueOS$ echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1)14:09
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/mymaemo-workdir> sudo john -format:DES -i:digits old_maemo_lock_code14:09
DocScrutinizer05Loaded 1 password hash (Traditional DES [128/128 BS SSE2-16])14:09
DocScrutinizer0510557            (root)14:09
DocScrutinizer05guesses: 1  time: 0:00:00:00  c/s: 2479K  trying: 12599 - 1146814:09
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: is that horrible ethernet iface name on maemo?14:13
DocScrutinizer05on plain stock RPM linux (suse)14:14
jon_yoh, "linux"14:14
DocScrutinizer05I admit I didn't get around to uninstall that avahi crap14:14
jon_ypass net.ifnames=0 to fix the ethernet names14:15
jon_ypass it to the kernel args14:16
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: thanks!14:18
jon_yas far as I know "predictable" naming is pretty random14:19
DocScrutinizer05udev also started acting funny since a few years (since L.P. messed it up I guess)14:19
jon_yI'd rather ethernet names be referred by MAC address14:20
jon_yor even GUIDs like on Windows14:20
DocScrutinizer05I would be perfectly happy with sth like ttyACM0 or sth14:20
DocScrutinizer05or ethUSB014:21
DocScrutinizer05or whatever14:21
jon_ywhat does enp0s29u1u8i8 even mean anyway14:22
jon_yis that your pci tree?14:22
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DocScrutinizer05are you ex-NOK kernel jon_y?14:23
jon_ynope, I am working on the linux kernel for work14:23
jon_ywell everything on the desktop is somehow a PCI device14:24
jon_yeven though there are no physcal PCI slots14:24
DocScrutinizer05anyway, I guess I will prepare a "tiny" howto for rescueOS (which has a pretty flawed readme) and lockcode-unlocking14:25
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jon_ydoes rescueOS support ipv6?14:26
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DocScrutinizer05e.g in rescueOS it recommends >>flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0<< which is missing trailing " to start with, but also the file isn't called initrd.img but rescueOS-1.0.img14:27
DocScrutinizer05prolly not14:27
jon_yipv6 autoconfigured address is nice14:28
DocScrutinizer05then missing: login root rootme14:30
DocScrutinizer05(I was lucky to guess that one ;-D )14:30
DocScrutinizer05on 3rd try already14:31
DocScrutinizer05then it could use a warning to get your glasses or magnifier lens to read the 3PT on N900 ;-)14:32
DocScrutinizer05well, I guess that applies to old farts like me who can't read a newspaper closer than 1m from their eyes14:33
FIQor people with vision impairments14:33
DocScrutinizer05I *almost* can read rescueOS shell on N900 when looking at it from 80cm distance14:34
DocScrutinizer05stuff like "root login on pts/1" I can guess14:35
KotCzarnydoc, you are using old rescueos14:35
KotCzarnynewest is 1.214:35
DocScrutinizer05kernel timestamps however look like [$$$$$$$$$$$$]14:35
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: I'm aware14:35
KotCzarnyalso, on normal linux (slackware) it's usb0 interface14:36
KotCzarny(and usb1 etc)14:36
KotCzarnyeven with kernel 4.2 and current udev14:36
DocScrutinizer05your metrics of "normal"14:36
DocScrutinizer05"normal" nowadays means "infested by poetterisms and general system cabal crap"14:37
KotCzarnythis is current one14:37
jon_y"normal" by hipster standards :V14:37
infobotsystemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel, or see
jon_ythere was a april fools joke about forking glibc14:38
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering:, or, or see ~systemd cabal14:38
jon_yI'm not so sure if it was a joke14:38
KotCzarnyjon_y: i wouldnt be surprised14:38
DocScrutinizer05ooooph, that's for sure no joke14:38
DocScrutinizer05it's 100% in line with general poetterism14:39
jon_yI'll wait for the day when C++ makes it into systemd14:39
jon_ywith glibc forked to use c++ with a "legacy C interface"14:39
KotCzarnythats too highlevel14:39
jon_ypssh, highlevel14:39
jon_ythey put a DNS server in it14:39
NIN101DocScrutinizer05: what is flawed about rescueOS readme and which suggestions do you have to make it better?14:39
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KotCzarnylets integrate systemd in efi or processors14:39
KotCzarnynin101: he was referring to the old file14:40
DocScrutinizer05hi NIN101 :-)14:40
jon_yand thinking that falling back on google DNS is a good idea14:40
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: see [2015-10-11 Sun 13:27:44] <DocScrutinizer05> e.g in rescueOS it recommends >>flasher-3.5 -k 2.6.37 -n initrd.img -l -b"rootdelay root=/dev/ram0<< which is missing trailing " to start with, but also the file isn't called initrd.img but rescueOS-1.0.img    [2015-10-11 Sun 13:30:13] <DocScrutinizer05> then missing: login root rootme14:40
jon_y"but you have no DNS configured! Why not just use a well known DNS Server?"14:41
jon_yfuck that noise14:41
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: but I used an old version14:41
KotCzarnythere is no login on 1.214:41
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KotCzarnyboots to shell14:41
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: OH YEAH
DocScrutinizer05the idiocy of the century14:42
jon_ywhen there is no DNS, there is no DNS, don't jump to assumptions14:42
DocScrutinizer05but that's not what poettering and friends want linux to be14:42
DocScrutinizer05they want it to act as the frankenstein monster of windows and macintosh14:43
KotCzarnywindows was born to bring computing for computer illiterates14:43
DocScrutinizer05with everything just handled by 'wizards' and smart daemons14:43
KotCzarnyie. idiots14:43
jon_ythe curse of the "desktop OS"14:43
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jon_yso I also heard network manager will screw up whatever preconfigure ethernet interface when it wakes up14:44
KotCzarnyit does that already i think14:45
jon_yas if it owns everything14:45
DocScrutinizer05I started to hate Poettering's work before I even knew there's a person called Poettering. I hated avahi and later PolypAudio and I thought "those are two piedces of crap they actually could be siblings"14:45
jon_ywhat does avahi do anyway?14:45
DocScrutinizer05turned out they are14:45
KotCzarny~wiki avahi14:45
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{wiktionarypar|avahi}} 'Avahi' may refer to: * "Avahi" (genus), a genus of woolly lemurs, which are primates that inhabit Madagascar. * Avahi (software), a zeroconf networking implementation. "14:45
DocScrutinizer05more than that14:46
jon_yoh zeroconf14:46
jon_yfuck you zcnf14:46
jon_yuse ipv6 like a red blooded man14:46
DocScrutinizer05it eas a maybe 10 years ago, I spent a whole afternoon to find out it was avahi who fucked up a perfectly working heterogeneous network14:47
DocScrutinizer05this was my first encounter with poetterisms14:48
DocScrutinizer05there I learned to hate all the stuff this guy forces into linux14:48
KotCzarnyhow come it gets accepted as a requirement?14:48
jon_yKotCzarny: becase "Desktop OS" nonsense14:49
KotCzarnyie. 'i cant configure my system and i need some automatic things that would do the magic for me' ?14:49
jon_ylearn to ping ff02::1, no need to zeroconf14:50
DocScrutinizer05learn about /etc/hosts (or whatever the equiv name on windows)14:51
KotCzarnywindoze stack is based on bsd's one14:51
DocScrutinizer05nobody needs avahi to configure a LAN with 5 clients14:51
KotCzarnyits in c:\windows\system32\config\etc\hosts or something14:51
jon_yKotCzarny: crazy modified BSD14:51
KotCzarny /cgd/c/WINDOWS/system32/drivers/etc/hosts14:52
KotCzarnywe both were close, hehe14:52
jon_yyeah C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts14:53
jon_ywell, Windows networking isn't exactly BSD compatible14:53
KotCzarnyalso, most home networks have router with dhcpd anyway14:53
KotCzarnyso no need for zeroconf14:53
jon_yread/write won't work on network sockets14:54
jon_ysince they are implemented entirely on different subsystems14:54
jon_ythe windows "C Library" isn't networking aware at all14:54
jon_y"The Internet? We don't need that!"14:55
jon_yeven on modern Windows14:55
jon_ynetworking is implemented on top of win32 APIs14:55
KotCzarnythey have .net, you know, people shouldnt be bothered by some pesky low level calls14:55
jon_yexcept that now you have no access to low level calls14:56
jon_yand your networking stack is more shit now14:56
jon_yno raw sockets etc14:56
DocScrutinizer05it's noteworthy that by todays standards it's incorrect to claim "maemo is debian based" - in fact it's now devuan-based rather than debian14:58
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KotCzarnyits debian(2009) based14:58
DocScrutinizer05IOW devuan is now what debian was before it turned to the dark side14:58
MaxdamantusIt's not even based on Debian from 2009.14:59
KotCzarnyalso, nokia did few "desktop os" things to it14:59
MaxdamantusThe core packages are completely independent of the Debian system.14:59
DocScrutinizer05it's based on debian from 2005 or something14:59
MaxdamantusIt's not.14:59
DocScrutinizer05it is14:59
MaxdamantusThe people at Nokia/Trolltech/whatever put together the core packages themselves, they're not from the Debian project.14:59
DocScrutinizer05no matter how often you quote changelogs14:59
DocScrutinizer05suuuure, Nokia invented their own libc15:00
MaxdamantusNo. It's still using glibc, just as Debian, Gentoo, ArchLinux, etc do.15:01
Maxdamantusbut like all of those, Nokia put together their own source package for it.15:01
Maxdamantusit doesn't come from Debian.15:01
DocScrutinizer05so what? that is what every distro does15:01
MaxdamantusUbuntu doesn't.15:01
MaxdamantusUbuntu just uses a fork of Debian's distribution.15:02
DocScrutinizer05we been there and you failed to grok that ubuntu isn't even linux, according to *your* arguments and rationale15:02
jon_yUbuntu is pretty alien to me alright15:03
MaxdamantusNo. We've been there and you've shown that you're simply silly.15:03
jon_yeven after using Linux close to a decade15:03
KotCzarnyok, it all matters, did they use debian based distro then modified, or just used debian packaging tools and packaged things themselves15:03
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: the latter.15:03
bencohI'm not completely sure about that either15:04
MaxdamantusYou can check by doing things like `apt-get source libc`15:04
MaxdamantusThe changelog just has a few entries from some people at Nokia.15:04
DocScrutinizer05again CHANGELOG15:04
DocScrutinizer05fuck the changelog!15:04
jon_ynobody writes Changelogs anymore :)15:05
KotCzarnyi do15:05
DocScrutinizer05this is not linux since it has no changelog reaching back to minix15:05
jon_yuse git log instead15:05
MaxdamantusYou basically have to write a changelog in Debian packages afaict.15:05
MaxdamantusIt's part of the formal format.15:05
DocScrutinizer05so what?15:05
jon_ywhen logs become mandatory, it will read "banana banana banana:15:06
KotCzarnyand: "another banana nana"15:06
DocScrutinizer05when I import a source and check it in to my own git, you say it's not linux anymore since it lacks changelog history15:06
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MaxdamantusDocScrutinizer05: if you have evidence that they copied the Debian distribution of glibc, you can show it if you want.15:07
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DocScrutinizer05Maxdamantus: you constantly bitch over changelog but fail to prove that Nokia maemo sources are actually _not_ a simple fork of debian15:07
MaxdamantusDocScrutinizer05: afaict, they just started with the GNU distribution.15:07
bencohthey have their own patches15:07
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: sure they do, that's why they made maemo15:08
bencoh(like the memcopy/neon implem that was merged later)15:08
KotCzarnybencoh, yes, but in the start, did they took some already made os and hacked it, or pieced things together one by one15:09
DocScrutinizer05that however doesn't mean maemo is based on RTos or some weird shit Nokia invented. It's clearly based on debian15:09
jon_ySymbian OS :)15:09
DocScrutinizer05proof: people use glibc patches from upstream15:10
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bencohas far as I can tell, they took a plateform, replaced (and/or patched ) a lot of things (including core packages) and added their own layers on top15:10
MaxdamantusWhich things did they keep?15:11
DocScrutinizer05if maemo glibc was actually "invented by Nokia" like Maxdamantus claims, those patches never could fit15:11
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MaxdamantusDocScrutinizer05: I've never claimed that. Stop being ridiculous.15:11
MaxdamantusIf DocScrutinizer05 stops beating his wife, he'd be a better person.15:12
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bencohwtf both of you.15:12
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: the right reply is "wife beating is legal in my district" as the kick message :)15:13
KotCzarnydistrict 1115:13
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DocScrutinizer05it's quite obvious and undisputed that maemo5 is based on mameo4 which is based on maemo3...15:18
MaxdamantusIndeed, the changelogs for the core packages go back to 2006.15:19
Maxdamantusas opposed to 1997 or something, when the Debian packages started.15:19
DocScrutinizer05why would debian be a milestone? they based on slackware iirc15:20
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DocScrutinizer05so debian isn't linux since they don't have changelogs explaining what they copied?15:21
MaxdamantusBecause the Debian project is what created the Debian packages.15:21
DocScrutinizer05and maemo is what created the maemo packages15:21
MaxdamantusExactly. You've got it.15:21
DocScrutinizer05that's an extremely silly argument15:21
MaxdamantusAt least it is an argument. I'm not sure what yours is.15:23
Maxdamantus"Debian is Gentoo and Gentoo is GNU, which is also Linus Torvalds and Maemo"15:23
DocScrutinizer05well, stick with your definition of "is based on". I'm not interested, and I guess 99% of maemo users aren't either15:23
MaxdamantusIt's important because it's the reason you can't just install Debian packages on Maemo.15:24
DocScrutinizer05aha, I can15:24
MaxdamantusEven if you go back to Debian from 2006.15:24
MaxdamantusYou're probably either doing something other than "installing Debian packages on Maemo", or you're doing something that will easily induce incompatibility.15:25
* Maxdamantus sleeps.15:25
DocScrutinizer05not intereested15:26
MaxdamantusOf course not. That's why you don't get into these arguments.15:26
DocScrutinizer05isn't it *you* who always starts this nonsense shit?15:26
DocScrutinizer05common sense is: maemo is based on debian. You like to disagree, we have all heard this. Now please keep it at that15:27
DocScrutinizer05if you have something *contructive* to contribute that actually points out problems maemo users/debels may run into, and you did proper investigation on how to *solve* those problems, please speak up. Otherwise I don't see what's your point, other than trolling15:29
keriomaemo is based on debian like ubuntu is based on debian15:30
kerioand you can't necessarily expect to install a debian package on ubuntu or viceversa and have it work flawlessly15:30
DocScrutinizer05not all of them, but quite a few will work nevertheless15:30
jon_ywell, not expected to work, ymmv15:31
DocScrutinizer05not expected, ok15:31
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless I even installed binaries from ubuntu on OpenSuse and they worked15:32
jon_yagain ymmv15:32
jon_yas long as they use the same ABI, it would work15:32
jon_ybut no guarantees15:32
bencohwhich we dont (hf vs sf)15:32
jon_ylike using a different bullet for your different chambered guns :)15:33
DocScrutinizer05the term "based on" is not very clearly defined, and obviously everybody implies other properties that shall come with it15:33
jon_ykind of work, but might explode the chamber instead15:33
jon_yheh, you can claim grub is based on DOS, since it boots on x86 too15:34
DocScrutinizer05soinstead of fighting battles about whether Y is based on X, we rather should discuss properties and problems of Y15:35
DocScrutinizer05e.g. "patches for X also apply to Y, unless the patches subsystem is unique to Y" would be such a topic that _really_ sheds some light on the topic. Particularly when listing the incompatible subsystems15:36
DocScrutinizer05e.g. nobody will doubt debian recent is based on debian_3_y_o, yet you can't expect old stuff to run on new debian15:38
DocScrutinizer05and for sure you can't  expect new stuff to run on old debian15:39
DocScrutinizer05so "based on" is prolly a rather useless classification15:40
KotCzarnyall those arguments are silly, all that matters in linux is kernel abi and compatible libs15:40
KotCzarnyand lately systemd and (un)friends mad another distinction15:40
DocScrutinizer05what matters is: devuan packages have an almost 100% chance to run on maemo OOTB (after compiling them in scratchbox). This however does NOT apply for recent debian packages anymore15:41
KotCzarnyyou wont run debian packages compiled with glibc newer than 2.515:41
KotCzarnymissing symbols etc15:41
DocScrutinizer05please re-read15:42
KotCzarnyor different packaging tools?15:42
KotCzarnyso, for example, i cant use any package?15:44
KotCzarnyeven ntpdate?15:44
jon_yoh right systemd expects /bin and /usr/bin to be on the same volume15:44
DocScrutinizer05ntpdate recently got assimilated by systemd. No? Then it will be next month15:44
jon_yworks if you have a giant partition setuo15:44
jon_ysudo already kind of got assimilated15:45
KotCzarnyhehe, i've read 'assassinated'15:45
* jon_y uses su anyway15:45
jon_ynone of that docker container nonsense15:46
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keriomeh, fuck linux15:48
* kerio recently moved to freebsd15:48
* kerio will not move back15:48
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you allow systemd cabal to steal linux and run with it?15:48
kerioat some point the realization that freebsd has always been better than linux hit me15:49
DocScrutinizer05hmm, can't argue that15:49
DocScrutinizer05might be right15:49
jon_yfreeBSD is nice, but I will only move it goes GPLv3+ :)15:49
kerioit might just be the fun of using something new, mind you15:49
jon_ywell, I actually like the gnu userland15:50
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jon_yand proper driver support15:50
DocScrutinizer05for sure *BSD are the "better" UNIX15:52
KotCzarnyfreebsd is nice, but isnt suitable for personal os much15:52
kerioyeah, openbsd is a lot better, it's got X preinstalled :>15:53
DocScrutinizer05ratings like "better" are again sth very fuzzy and need specification which properties are used for evaluation15:53
kerioalso, freebsd has zfs15:54
kerioliterally anything else pales in comparisong15:54
kerio(as long as you can actually use your drives)15:54
DocScrutinizer05"it's better *since*..." is arguing the wrong way around. 1. define what's important for you, 2. evaluate which OS fulfills those requirements best15:55
KotCzarny1/ hardware support (ie. graphics card, peripherials etc)15:55
KotCzarnyi know, you can use vesa with almost anything15:55
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KotCzarnybut it's a bit of pain15:55
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DocScrutinizer05for me the requirements are: a) fully open and tangible by user, based on UNIX principles  b) userbase as huge as possible  -- a) rules out redmond crap, b) leaves linux15:59
DocScrutinizer05btw a) also rules out poetterux15:59
DocScrutinizer05aka lennux16:00
DocScrutinizer05it's a shame I'm still on OpenSuse16:01
KotCzarnyi've tried suse once16:02
KotCzarnyi dont remember if i even finished installing16:02
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm lazy and don't ever even upgrade lightly. And I don't want to switch to XY now, only to learn in 6 months that it also went poettering16:03
DocScrutinizer05so I wait for devuan16:03
DocScrutinizer05how could you abort installation?16:03
DocScrutinizer05it's pretty much a one-click thing16:03
KotCzarnyi just got fed with it and installed something else16:03
KotCzarnymind you, it was suse, not opensuse16:04
KotCzarny(long time ago)16:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: install freebsd!16:04
kerioit's fun16:04
kerioand really quick16:04
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: you can already use devuan now16:04
DocScrutinizer05too small userbase to warrant decent support16:04
KotCzarnyerm, freebsd is quite popular16:04
KotCzarnyjust not with desktop lusers16:05
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DocScrutinizer05well, this is a workstation, not a server or some toy16:05
Wizzupfreebsd is not a toy os16:05
DocScrutinizer05for some it is16:05
KotCzarnyit can be used as a desktop os16:05
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DocScrutinizer05and while I usually find a linux version of proprietary tools I need, I hardly ever seen any commercial company offering those tools in a *BSD variant16:06
DocScrutinizer05s/usually/sometimes, when lucky,/16:07
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: and while I sometimes, when lucky, find a linux version of proprietary tools I need, I hardly ever seen any commercial company offering those tools in a *BSD variant16:07
KotCzarnyyou can use linux binaries in freebsd16:07
KotCzarny(i think it has some compatibility)16:07
KotCzarnyFreeBSD provides 32-bit binary compatibility with Linux®, allowing users to install and run most 32-bit Linux® binaries on a FreeBSD system without having to first modify the binary. It has even been reported that, in some situations, 32-bit Linux® binaries perform better on FreeBSD than they do on Linux®.16:08
KotCzarnyHowever, some Linux®-specific operating system features are not supported under FreeBSD. For example, Linux® binaries will not work on FreeBSD if they overly use i386™ specific calls, such as enabling virtual 8086 mode. In addition, 64-bit Linux® binaries are not supported at this time16:08
DocScrutinizer05I had lots of fun 2 weeks ago with installing a tool made for ubuntu linux on my OpenSuse. I don't think I'd be anywhere now when I had tried to install same tool under freeBSD16:08
keriothe linux emulator is very limited16:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you could be surprised actually16:09
DocScrutinizer05I got no time to play with that. As mentioned this is a workstation, not a toy16:10
DocScrutinizer05if you want to give it a try, for the laugh:
KotCzarny Graphics RAM: 128MB16:14
KotCzarnydoes it use opengl for somerendering or what?16:15
DocScrutinizer05it's using Qt afaik16:15
KotCzarnymaybe it's qt reqs then16:15
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kerioyou could run the windows version in wine :>16:16
DocScrutinizer05THAT I didn't try yet. Tried virtualbox etc (where the 128MB video requirement was a helpful info) but in the end gave up on it and ran it generically16:17
DocScrutinizer05err genuine16:17
bencohthey've got bhyve now (freebsd) <316:17
DocScrutinizer05it still segfaults on file requester open, for "open..." and "save as..." etc16:17
bencoh(kvm was the main reason I went linux some years ago)16:17
DocScrutinizer05blame Qt16:18
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DocScrutinizer05dunno why those suckers didn't link statically16:18
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DocScrutinizer05anyway `GP3 <projectfilename>` works now, as does "save"16:20
DocScrutinizer05just the dang file requesters... :-S16:20
KotCzarnyyou can always run with older libs by pointing to them via LD_LIBRARY+PATH16:21
KotCzarnywhich usually solves libs incompatibility16:22
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DocScrutinizer05it seems like this stuff needs _newer_ libraries though16:26
DocScrutinizer05I had quite some fun installing a buttload of Qt libs16:27
DocScrutinizer05and one of them obviously acts up16:27
DocScrutinizer05tried that LD_LIBRARY_PATH stuff, didn't help much16:28
DocScrutinizer05but in the end iirc the major fly in the ointment was permissions to access USB16:29
DocScrutinizer05somehow I fixed that the unix way, prolly by adding GP3 to a group that may access USB device16:30
DocScrutinizer05or I brute force tweaked the permissions of /dev/usb16:31
DocScrutinizer05saturn:~ # lsof 2>/dev/null |grep GP3|wc -l16:35
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DocScrutinizer05and BT again enabled >:-(16:36
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DocScrutinizer05btw the first pastebin above is about GP3 silently dieing when clicking on "open..."16:39
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drathirDocScrutinizer05: virtualbox is the worst one i guess...16:43
bencohdepends on your needs16:44
DocScrutinizer05dunno. I finally made it run in a VM but the problems were all the same16:44
DocScrutinizer05used vagrant16:45
drathirbut i hear the bsd maybe in near future will support kvm when that happen will be great...16:45
DocScrutinizer05which in turn didn't give me direct full access over USB and no X window either16:45
DocScrutinizer05didn't want to install XEN, since despite it works great, it messes up my host's network config with nasty bridges16:46
bencohdrathir: there was a project to port KVM to freebsd years ago, but considering they eventually developped bhyve, it's prolly dead16:47
* drathir only like openvz and kvm...16:48
drathiropenvz bc of performance and cheap, kvm for power users...16:48
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* ozero Hi all. Not to start holywar, any advantages of maemo 5 vs replicant/cyanogen security-wise? From what I've found LUKS option is limited to /home17:56
KotCzarnydepends what kind of security you talk about17:58
KotCzarnyagainst device access or spyware/remote toy like17:58
DocScrutinizer05ozero: Maemo resp the N900 is a plain linux computer not much different to your desktop linux PC. You basically can do all the things on the former you would expect to work on the latter18:02
DocScrutinizer05so running LUKS on rootfs is tricky but can get done - on both platforms18:03
ozerowell, on my typical *nix computer I can encrypt whole /dev/sdA and keep bootloader on /dev/sdB18:04
DocScrutinizer05the only thing around core system not compatible between your desktop PC and N900 is the bootloader18:04
DocScrutinizer05on N900 you only got uBoot as FOSS bootloader18:05
DocScrutinizer05you can't use stuff like GRUB etc18:05
DocScrutinizer05I however doubt - without having looked into it - that on PC the bootloader itself would handle LUKS on rootfs. It's probably a special initrd that does, and you can implement exactly same solution on N90018:07
KotCzarnyone can always flash minimal kernel which could kexec another kernel+initrd which would have some encryption script18:07
DocScrutinizer05not even needed, uBoot itself can start "another kernel+initrd"18:08
KotCzarnybut initrd is a must usually to properly setup things18:08
DocScrutinizer05for LUKS etc it is18:08
DocScrutinizer05maemo usually doesn't use initrd (anymore)18:09
DocScrutinizer05though there's still a NAND partition "initrd" which is unused. For legacy reasons ;-)18:09
KotCzarnyunused you say? good to know18:09
DocScrutinizer05check cat /proc/mtd18:10
DocScrutinizer05mtd4: 00200000 00020000 "initfs"18:10
KotCzarnyyeah, just didnt know its not used for anything18:10
DocScrutinizer05it's legacy from maemo4 afaik, not used for anything18:10
DocScrutinizer05alas too small to create an ubifs on it18:11
DocScrutinizer05btw *some* tools use it, I heard ;-)18:11
DocScrutinizer05once there been considerations how to easily tell somebody ruined his N900 by overclocking18:12
DocScrutinizer05other people store some passwords there, I heard18:12
DocScrutinizer05but officially it's unused or even unknown18:14
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DocScrutinizer05and afaik it's also untouched through flashing18:14
ozeroDocScrutinizer05, so with default bootloader or uBoot, is it possible to setup plain dm-crypt for / ?..18:15
DocScrutinizer05it's unclear if NOLO still has legacy that would try to load an initrd from there18:15
DocScrutinizer05ozero: I'd say yes18:15
bencohtricky thoug18:16
DocScrutinizer05just as tricky as on PC18:16
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DocScrutinizer05maybe a tiny bit more even18:16
DocScrutinizer05but really only a *tiny* bit18:16
* ozero have something to do for a next weekend18:18
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* DocScrutinizer05 possibly never before noticed Nokia N900/.documents/maemo_software_copyright.pdf19:34
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DocScrutinizer05acording to this document you might think the complete firmware is under free licensing and you may share it to whomever you like, in unaltered or modified form19:35
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drathirL29Ah: really?20:19
drathirL29Ah: ++ nezmar.jabbim.cz20:20
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L29Ahsometimes it fucks up and produces some dupes of me20:31
L29Ahand then i get all the messages doubled20:31
L29Ahlike now20:31
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Maxdamantus01:30:34 < kerio> and you can't necessarily expect to install a debian package on ubuntu or viceversa and have it work flawlessly21:28
MaxdamantusExcept you can, because it is literally Debian.21:28
Maxdamantusit's as much Debian as Mint is Ubuntu.21:28
Sicelohave you tried Maxdamantus?21:28
MaxdamantusNo. But I know you can, because Ubuntu is a direct variant of Debian, just as Mint is a direct variant of Ubuntu.21:30
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KotCzarnyum, dependency hell21:30
Sicelook. :)21:30
MaxdamantusI think they even effectively rebase on Debian releases occasionally.21:30
Siceloi can confirm kerio was right. of course, one can always "force" things to work, even across RPM-DEB distros21:32
Maxdamantus“Before release, packages are imported from Debian Unstable continuously and merged with Ubuntu-specific modifications”21:32
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drathirL29Ah: its really good and stable as rock service...22:17
drathirMaxdamantus: ubuntu trying to be debian like its not a debian...22:18
drathirMaxdamantus: only one similarity in my opinion is both using deb...22:19
L29Ahwhat do you suggest?22:22
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drathirL29Ah: the server...22:48
drathirL29Ah: xmpp correctly...22:49
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