IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2015-09-29

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esaym153	can I not use opengl at all on n810? https://wiki.maemo.org/MBX_drivers_status says need driver	01:01
esaym153	but specs say it can do 2mil polys a second: http://www.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4671&navigationId=11990&templateId=6123 ?	01:01
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ShadowJK	Basically there's no usable drivers	01:29
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ds3	is there a good short explanation on why the N900 3G is 1700/2100 combo?	01:46
KotCzarny	depends where you bought it probably	01:46
KotCzarny	wikipedia says: GSM 850/900/1800/1900	01:48
KotCzarny	ahm	01:48
KotCzarny	umts	01:48
ds3	yes, the "3G" UMTS stuff from Tmobile	01:49
ds3	this is a US Market thing	01:49
KotCzarny	yup	01:49
KotCzarny	900/2100 used here	01:49
ecc3g	except Tmobile never really offered the N900 in the US...?	01:49
ds3	what does the 900/2100 mean? does UMTS require 2 bands to work or?	01:50
KotCzarny	there is also 1700 for japan	01:50
ds3	ecc3g: it was an unlocked user supplied device.	01:50
KotCzarny	ds3: nope, different providers use different bands	01:50
ds3	Tmobile killed 1700/2100 in the SFBay area this weekend	01:50
ds3	but I can get a Tmobile signal (apparently) at 1900	01:51
ds3	so I am a bit confused as to why that signal is 1 band vs the other having 2 bands	01:51
ds3	KotCzarny: yes, I know that. just donno why it is called out as a dual band thing	01:52
ecc3g	I was never able to get 3G in palo alto. that was annoying.	01:52
KotCzarny	i mean, some use 900 band, some 2100	01:53
ds3	ecc3g: close to 101 or close to 280?	01:53
ecc3g	101	01:53
ds3	KotCzarny: everything I can find seems to call out 2 numbers at once	01:53
ds3	ecc3g: I get weak 3G all along 101 from Snv to PA	01:54
ds3	<--- not happy, stuck with a Galaxy Nexus	01:54
ecc3g	actually ECR	01:54
ds3	ECR?	01:54
ecc3g	El Camino	01:54
ecc3g	I remember Frys in Palo Alto I got no signal with the n900	01:55
ecc3g	no 3g	01:55
ecc3g	weak 3g in belmont	01:55
ecc3g	works perfectly in CO	01:55
ecc3g	(whole 'nother state)	01:55
ds3	Frys in PA is a dead spot for me	01:56
ds3	no 3 or 2G	01:56
ecc3g	even outside near el camino is bad	01:56
ecc3g	i guess it's all moot if they cancelled 1700/2100	01:56
ecc3g	i hate my android phone	01:56
ds3	nod	01:56
ds3	which android phone are you falling back to?	01:57
ecc3g	zenfone2	01:57
KotCzarny	use droid as wifispot?	01:57
ecc3g	I've been trying to carry 2 phones, I dont like it...	01:57
KotCzarny	put it in the backpack?	01:58
ecc3g	I don't have a backpack...	01:58
KotCzarny	buy one?	01:58
ecc3g	One backpack for just a phone... yeah...	01:59
KotCzarny	not just for a phone	01:59
KotCzarny	backpack i one of the best inventions	01:59
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ecc3g	I don't have anything else I need to carry...	01:59
KotCzarny	food?	02:00
KotCzarny	drink?	02:00
ecc3g	...	02:00
KotCzarny	car battery for emergency power?	02:00
KotCzarny	those 95Ah babies give a long uptime	02:01
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ds3	not for the Android crap	02:01
ds3	it is design to unpredictably drain the battery flat	02:02
ecc3g	I guess I don't use my phone a huge amount, it's usually on standby	02:03
ecc3g	and my android phone seems to have better standby time now...	02:03
ds3	beware of the android equiv of tracker	02:05
ds3	biggest peice of garbage designed in to android	02:05
ecc3g	beware of android in general... :(	02:05
KotCzarny	:)	02:05
ds3	Android has negative credibility	02:06
ds3	but radiowise, Android seems to be the only option	02:06
KotCzarny	no one else doing gsm there?	02:07
ecc3g	for bay area... seems so.	02:07
ds3	GSM/EDGE works	02:07
ds3	but there is a need for data	02:07
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ds3	for tethered operation, I much rather revive the N800	02:07
Wizzup	but ... the n800 doesn't have a modem	02:09
Wizzup	or does it?	02:09
KotCzarny	only wifi	02:09
Wizzup	yeah.	02:09
KotCzarny	and usb host mode	02:09
KotCzarny	:)	02:10
KotCzarny	but that one needs car battery	02:10
ds3	but if you are tethering, it don't matter	02:10
esaym153	ShadowJK: well yes, there are not usable drivers for the n810, but what does that mean for an app that uses opengl?	02:12
esaym153	ShadowJK: basically I am in the middle of learning SDL and opengl to make some simple games on the n810, but if I can't use opengl at all, then I just need to focus on learning SDL only	02:13
KotCzarny	or finding cheap working n900	02:13
esaym153	I don't really get what happens when your graphics chip doesn't support 2d or 3d accel and you send opengl data to it....	02:13
KotCzarny	esaym153: in linux you usually end up with software rendering	02:13
esaym153	KotCzarny: automaticly?	02:14
KotCzarny	if mesa is installed	02:14
esaym153	hmm	02:14
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KotCzarny	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/m/mesa/	02:17
KotCzarny	someone compiled it	02:17
KotCzarny	dont know how well it works	02:17
esaym153	if n810 can't even do 2d accel then that is stupid....	02:18
KotCzarny	for simple programs its enough i guess	02:18
KotCzarny	install and check mesa demos	02:18
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DocScrutinizer05	ds3: don't listen to weitd excplanations, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93095	03:00
DocScrutinizer05	and the links therein	03:00
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DocScrutinizer05	then bash your government for not putting any reasonable nationwide regulations into effect. You can use one phone across all europe and it just works. In USA you're lucky when you drive 50 miles and your phone can still do simple emergency calls	03:04
DocScrutinizer05	1700/2100 is a special band dubbed "AWS" and is no special in any way, other bands are e.g. 1800/1850 and are called "1800"	03:16
DocScrutinizer05	well, sorry, no coffee. 1700/2100 is NO special band, just has exceptionally huge difference between upstream and downstream link frequencies	03:17
ds3	reading...	03:17
ds3	Ohhh okay	03:18
ds3	so it is 1700 half duplex, 2100 half duplex (vs 1900 half/1900+dF half)?	03:18
DocScrutinizer05	never go for frequencies, always go for bands, they are unambiguous and clearly specified	03:18
DocScrutinizer05	yes	03:19
ds3	bands are confusing. I like regular engineering descriptions	03:20
ds3	having said that, a simple pentaband radio is what i need, it seems	03:21
DocScrutinizer05	bands are regular engineering descriptions	03:29
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DocScrutinizer05	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands	03:41
DocScrutinizer05	as regular and engineering as it gets	03:42
DocScrutinizer05	AWS = band4	03:42
DocScrutinizer05	actually you'd need band and technology (modulation, access protocol FD vs TD, channel width etc)	03:44
DocScrutinizer05	but band anyway is waaay better than 'frequency'	03:45
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DocScrutinizer05	compare band1 (dubbed "2100", uplink 1920-80, downlink 2110-70) with band 4 (dubbed 1700/2100, UL 1710 – 1755, DL 2110 – 2155), and band 10 (dubbed 1700, UPLINK 1710 – 1770 and DOWNLINK - the one usually used to dub the frequency band - is 2110 – 2170)	03:49
DocScrutinizer05	band 25: "1900", UL:1850 – 1915, DL:1930 – 1995	03:51
ds3	let me clarify what I mean - regular engineer as in general EE, not a mobile telcom engineer	03:51
DocScrutinizer05	the "frequency" nicknames are mostly meaningless and arbitrary	03:51
erlehmann	KotCzarny what is modem breakdown	03:53
DocScrutinizer05	band 6, 19, 20 are all dubbed "800MHz" though they are NOT compatible	03:53
erlehmann	Maxdamantus where add the paper?	03:53
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: he meant modem chip defect, a known problem of N900 that basically can't get fixed	03:53
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: forget about "add paper", it doesn't work	03:53
erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 how does it occur?	03:53
ds3	yes, I perfer to be more specific then the names like '800MHz'	03:54
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: BGA solder joints popping up when PCB gets bent by pressing on kbd (a sound theory that has no evidence so far)	03:54
erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 i had it just disconnect during a call when the phone lied still.	03:55
ds3	if that is the case, why won't a reflow cycle fix it?	03:55
DocScrutinizer05	ds3: so use bands :-)	03:55
erlehmann	also, opening and closing the phone would re-detect the sim card.	03:55
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: the popped-open solder joints make loose connections that break open and re-connect at random	03:56
DocScrutinizer05	you can help it a tad by doing the spring-fix	03:56
erlehmann	~spring-fix	03:56
erlehmann	~spring	03:56
erlehmann	hmm	03:56
erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 you have a link?	03:57
DocScrutinizer05	~springfix	03:57
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, springfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1243160#post1243160 and http://www.jabawok.net/?p=14	03:57
erlehmann	thx	03:58
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DocScrutinizer05	ds3: reflow does work, and I think somebody did it. However you know reflow isn't exactly simple, you need to heat up chip and PCB to >225° but <250°C for <20s, and you should not do this to camera, and a lot of other components on the board	04:28
DocScrutinizer05	reflow can be done when you know what you're doing, using preheat to maybe 120°C and then hot air reflow station	04:29
erlehmann	oh well.	04:29
DocScrutinizer05	previously removing or covering with isolating material all the components that don't want a reflow	04:30
ds3	never said it was easy. it just didn't make sense that reflow would not work	04:31
DocScrutinizer05	N900 design has a fundamental flaw here: they shouldn't have placed large BGA chips on opposite PCB surface of kbd	04:31
DocScrutinizer05	nobody said reflow doesn't work	04:32
ds3	epoxy underfill might have helped	04:32
DocScrutinizer05	hmm? where?	04:32
ds3	then I misunderstood someone a while back	04:32
ds3	under the BGA	04:32
ds3	so the balls can't flex with the keyboard	04:32
DocScrutinizer05	that's actually impossible	04:32
ds3	why is it impossible?	04:33
DocScrutinizer05	because there are BGA balls and nothing else	04:33
ds3	let me find the link	04:33
DocScrutinizer05	designing the PCB layout in a smarter way would have helped	04:33
DocScrutinizer05	adding some istance posts to support PCB would have helped	04:34
DocScrutinizer05	epoxy hardly ever helps anywhere in electronics	04:34
ds3	http://www.embedded.com/design/system-integration/4235387/Underfill-revisited--How-a-decades-old-technique-enables-smaller--more-durable-PCBs	04:34
ds3	take a look at that	04:34
ds3	it should address exactly that theory (unless I misunderstood again)	04:34
DocScrutinizer05	again, how would you apply epoxy between the 0.4mm PITCH bga balls?	04:36
ds3	if it is thin enough, it can wick in	04:36
DocScrutinizer05	not even discussing how much weaker such small epoxy joint is compared to a properly soldered BGA solder joint	04:36
ds3	no no	04:36
ds3	it would not replace the solder	04:37
ds3	it would go around the solder replacing the void	04:37
DocScrutinizer05	nobody said "replace". Epoxy usually isn't conductive	04:37
DocScrutinizer05	the voids are like 20% of the total area, 80% being soldered BGA balls	04:38
ds3	there are many articles on ruggedizing the PCB with underfills	04:39
DocScrutinizer05	and a solder joint is of higher mechanical strength than a epoxy joint. So that's 100% solder vs 100% solder plus 52% * 0.3 (for weaker epoxy joints) for the mechanical strength of that chip	04:39
ds3	the N900 has a 0.032 or less PCB IIRC so that isn't helping	04:39
erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 what about the spring fix is „basically can't be fixed“ ?	04:40
ds3	I wouldn't think it adds strength that way. I see it as a "shim" to prevent board flexing from applying stress to the balls themselves	04:40
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: it turns out the spring fix also doesn't work forever	04:40
erlehmann	i should stock up on n900s then.	04:40
erlehmann	current stock: 1 (and it is failing)	04:41
DocScrutinizer05	from reports so far, it seems it might help for 6 months, or 12 or even 24	04:41
erlehmann	:(	04:42
erlehmann	i like this device.	04:42
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DocScrutinizer05	ds3: well, they claim underfill actually helps, even for fine pitch BGA. I don't know how that's supposed to work but it might actually have helped iff applied on a good soldered chip. With a broken soldering, applying underfill would guarantee the chip never again contacts to the PCB like it's supposed to	04:45
ds3	oh yeah.. it is not a repair thing	04:46
ds3	it is an initial mfg thing	04:46
DocScrutinizer05	yes	04:46
DocScrutinizer05	also I wonder why they use epoxy and not cyanoacrylate	04:47
DocScrutinizer05	the latter being stronger and much better viscosity usually	04:47
ds3	the keyword is fill	04:47
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, possible, yeah	04:47
ds3	cyanoacrylates aren't good fillers unless you add stuff but that makes it too thick	04:47
DocScrutinizer05	yes	04:48
DocScrutinizer05	anyway, I noted it, thanks for sharing this piece of info. However I don't see where to use it right now. Maybe later on sometime, when we build a device supposed to work forever and never needing rework/fix	04:49
DocScrutinizer05	since underfill pretty much makes any rework a mission impossible	04:49
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ds3	there are vendors that CLAIM reworkable underfill	04:50
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DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: Neo900 UG might offer affordable replacement PCBs in a few months	04:51
erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 care to elaborate “might” and “affordable” ?	04:52
erlehmann	wait, i see	04:52
DocScrutinizer05	(we will have a ~200 to 400, from upgrading N900 to Neo900)	04:52
erlehmann	you are ripping out the boards from n900, to put in your upgrade	04:52
erlehmann	am i right?	04:52
DocScrutinizer05	yep :)	04:52
erlehmann	so you will have spare old boards lying around	04:52
erlehmann	i like where this is going	04:53
DocScrutinizer05	yep, unless we ship them to our customers. I doubt all customers will want them, though	04:53
DocScrutinizer05	I'm pondering to offer a 10 bucks credit to customers that don't wnat their spare N900 PCB	04:53
DocScrutinizer05	so we would have a few spare PCB to sell to users who want to fix their N900	04:54
erlehmann	that would be really really nice.	04:54
DocScrutinizer05	obviously we can't give any warranty on those PCBs, they are used anyway	04:54
DocScrutinizer05	but we could sell then for well <100 bucks	04:55
erlehmann	that sounds nice.	04:55
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erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 will there be neo900 updates at congress?	05:02
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DocScrutinizer05	CCC? hardly. I don't think somebody of Neo900 officially joins CCC	05:03
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erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 but are you going?	05:13
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DocScrutinizer05	that's as unclear	05:13
DocScrutinizer05	I'm currently suffering some health issues and I'm under very heavy load from working for Neo900	05:14
DocScrutinizer05	I doubt I have time and energy to attend CCCongress	05:14
erlehmann	oh :(	05:15
erlehmann	i hope you get better.	05:17
DocScrutinizer05	are you in Gera or Munich?	05:17
erlehmann	nope, berlin.	05:17
DocScrutinizer05	or neither :-)	05:17
DocScrutinizer05	krhrhr, so much for geoip info	05:17
DocScrutinizer05	https://www.iplocation.net/	05:18
erlehmann	o2 mobile	05:18
DocScrutinizer05	aaah	05:18
erlehmann	i do not have a proper internet connection	05:18
erlehmann	which is why the sim card problem is kinda important	05:18
DocScrutinizer05	:nod: I see	05:18
erlehmann	can the spring fix be done by a layperson?	05:20
DocScrutinizer05	well, placing some paper between SIM card and battery will support the PCB against battery so it doesn't get bent that much when pressing the kbd. However too much paper there will bend the PCB the to other direction, making the contact issue even worse in the long term	05:20
ebzzry	Does anybody have a deb of Matan's keyboard shortcut?	05:20
DocScrutinizer05	matan's kbd shortcut?	05:20
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: (layman) hardly	05:21
erlehmann	does that mean that not using the keyboard is a workaround?	05:21
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ebzzry	DocScrutinizer05: yes	05:21
DocScrutinizer05	never heard of it	05:21
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erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 i think my brother told me he fixed the usb on his phone. is that experienced enough?	05:22
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: well, that's not really a workaround, unless you never use it so it doesn't break. But yes, some users could reproduce 100% modem failure on pressing a certain group of kbd keys	05:22
erlehmann	urgs	05:23
DocScrutinizer05	erlehmann: yes, that's absolutely enough expertise to apply spring fix	05:23
ebzzry	Does anybody use Ctrl+Shift+X-like keyboard shortcuts, to do specific things? If yes, how do you implement it?	05:23
erlehmann	great, i'll ask him then.	05:23
DocScrutinizer05	ctrl-shift-x does 'just work', no?	05:24
erlehmann	ebzzry for keyboard, if you ever find out how to disable the compose input overlay, i would thank you.	05:24
ebzzry	Where X is a key.	05:24
erlehmann	i want to use the compose key	05:24
erlehmann	but if i use it i get the overlay	05:24
erlehmann	:/	05:24
ebzzry	Just like the one documented here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41389	05:24
DocScrutinizer05	ebzzry: >>The repository includes modified-hildon-desktop (see description of this package on the wiki page) and keyboard-shortcuts.<< this MHD is included in CSSU	05:26
DocScrutinizer05	so you simply need to define your shortcuts, the way matan describes	05:26
DocScrutinizer05	installing the matan deb would actually be a dwongrade	05:27
ebzzry	I can't find the instruction how to define my own keyboard shortcuts. :-(	05:27
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DocScrutinizer05	seems there's need of a python script: >>Keyboard shortcuts are still only configurable by editing the python script /usr/bin/keyboard-shortcut, but I hope looking at the file will make it easy for anyone to configure it as they want.<<	05:28
ebzzry	I have CSSU installed, but I don't see a /usr/bin/keyboard-shortcut	05:28
ebzzry	My old keyboard-shortcut was backed up, though.	05:29
ebzzry	I don't think it was part of MHD.	05:29
ebzzry	(I noticed that when I pressed C-S-x, Terminal launches. Where is that specific shortcut defined?)	05:30
DocScrutinizer05	please see what I posted. It needs a python script which probbaly is NOT part of CSSU	05:32
DocScrutinizer05	C-S-x is a built-in shortcut that even worked on PR1.1 iirc	05:33
erlehmann	what does it to?	05:33
erlehmann	do	05:33
erlehmann	?	05:33
ebzzry	Yes, but where is that python script now?	05:33
DocScrutinizer05	matan extended that to make them shortcuts conbfigurable and extendable	05:33
ebzzry	DocScrutinizer05: OK. I'll restoring from my backup.	05:34
ebzzry	Nope. Simply restoring /usr/bin/keyboard-shortcut doesn't work.	05:37
ebzzry	Ah, yes. The name of the package I think was keyboard-shortcuts.	05:37
erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 can it be that the n900 is heat sensitive? at the CCCamp, a friend of mine had hers not work after she left it in the tent during heat (it worked afterwards). mine now acts up after i let it lie behind the ~50°C fan output from my laptop.	05:38
ebzzry	By the way, why is Matan's MHD a downgrade?	05:56
DocScrutinizer05	it's a pity http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html vanished. It seems it was the only reliable source regarding details on how that hotkey feature works	05:57
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#random_stuff_to_config_.2F_fix_.27things.27_.28c.26p_to_shell.29 --> "" ## new: with ctrl-BS for nice taskswitching, see ## http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html""	05:58
erlehmann	DocScrutinizer05 http://web.archive.org/web/20120709095945/http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html	05:59
erlehmann	(i'm so clever)	05:59
DocScrutinizer05	:-D \o/	05:59
erlehmann	i use conkeror and have a wayback shortcut. if i type „wayback“ before a URL, it asks the internet archive for a copy.	05:59
erlehmann	and archives it if it isn't.	05:59
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DocScrutinizer05	ebzzry: >> /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/dbus_shift_ctrl (*) If the value of this key is true, then ctrl-shift-letter combinations are reported on the d-bus, allowing implementation of global shortcut keys. H,N,P,X are reported on the dbus only if the previous key is false.<<	06:02
DocScrutinizer05	ebzzry: [2015-09-29 Tue 04:59:00] <erlehmann> DocScrutinizer05 http://web.archive.org/web/20120709095945/http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html	06:02
DocScrutinizer05	~pkg	06:02
infobot	from memory, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/	06:02
DocScrutinizer05	ebzzry: http://maemo.org/packages/view/dbus-scripts/	06:03
DocScrutinizer05	^^^ is basically the python script you need to actually trigger actions when /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/dbus_shift_ctrl reports pressing of a hotkey to dbus	06:04
erlehmann	d-bus pig disgusting	06:04
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DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#random_stuff_to_config_.2F_fix_.27things.27_.28c.26p_to_shell.29	06:20
erlehmann	oha	06:21
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DocScrutinizer05	shit! X-Archive-Wayback-Runtime-Error: ResourceNotInArchiveException: http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/binary/keyboard-shortcuts_1.2_all.deb was not found	07:53
DocScrutinizer05	http://web.archive.org/web/20100414104505/http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/binary/keyboard-shortcuts_1.2_all.deb	07:54
DocScrutinizer05	hmmmpf he's gone	07:57
DocScrutinizer05	ebzzry: http://my.svgalib.org/repo/binary/keyboard-shortcuts_1.2_all.deb	07:57
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DocScrutinizer05	http://paste.opensuse.org/42878270	08:05
DocScrutinizer05	http://my.svgalib.org/repo/binary/keyboard-shortcuts_1.3_all.deb actually	08:06
DocScrutinizer05	ebzzry: get and install this .deb, should 'just work'. check the keyboard-shortcuts file in /etc/ err dbus-scripts (or somesuch), it's pretty well commented and easy to understand. You edit your desktop hotkeys there	08:08
DocScrutinizer05	see http://paste.opensuse.org/42878270	08:09
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DocScrutinizer05	actually http://my.svgalib.org/ is the new http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/	08:18
DocScrutinizer05	~matan	08:19
DocScrutinizer05	~matan is actually http://my.svgalib.org/ is the new http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/	08:19
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	08:19
DocScrutinizer05	~matan	08:19
infobot	rumour has it, matan is actually http://my.svgalib.org/ is the new http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/	08:19
DocScrutinizer05	merlin1991: could we get a mirror of all that stuff (maemo / MHD related) in CSSU repo?	08:21
DocScrutinizer05	merlin1991: http://my.svgalib.org/repo/binary/keyboard-shortcuts_1.3_all.deb clearly is a package meant to work with MHD only, so prolly shouldn't go to extras	08:22
DocScrutinizer05	instead it should go to CSSU-extras (though we prolly still don't have any such repo?)	08:23
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DocScrutinizer05	krhrhr: http://my.svgalib.org/770/n900/bq27x00_battery.c	10:05
DocScrutinizer05	http://my.svgalib.org/770/n900/keyboard-shortcuts.install	10:08
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DocScrutinizer05	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/ and http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/repo/	10:53
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DocScrutinizer05	yw	10:53
zGrr	moin :)	10:53
DocScrutinizer05	~matan is also http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/	10:54
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	10:54
DocScrutinizer05	~matan	10:54
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, matan is actually http://my.svgalib.org/ is the new http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/, or http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/	10:54
DocScrutinizer05	~mhd	10:55
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, mhd is Modified Hildon Desktop. See ~CSSU and http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html	10:55
DocScrutinizer05	infobot: no, mhd is [Modified Hildon Desktop] included and improved in ~CSSU, also see ~matan	10:56
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	10:56
DocScrutinizer05	~mhd	10:56
infobot	[mhd] Modified Hildon Desktop. See ~CSSU and http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html	10:56
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DocScrutinizer05	~literal mhd	10:57
infobot	"#maemo mhd" is "Modified Hildon Desktop. See ~CSSU and http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html"	10:57
DocScrutinizer05	~factinfo mhd	10:57
infobot	mhd -- created by DocScrutinizer05 <~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg> 49s ago.	10:57
DocScrutinizer05	~forget mhd	10:57
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: i forgot mhd	10:57
DocScrutinizer05	~unforget mhd	10:57
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: Successfully recovered 'mhd'. Have fun now.	10:57
DocScrutinizer05	~factinfo mhd	10:58
infobot	mhd -- created by DocScrutinizer05 <~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg> 1m 18s ago; last modified 13s ago by docscrutinizer05.	10:58
DocScrutinizer05	~listkeys mhd	10:58
infobot	Factoid search of 'mhd' by key (3): mhdns ;; mhd ;; #maemo mhd.	10:58
DocScrutinizer05	~forget mhd	10:58
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: i forgot mhd	10:58
DocScrutinizer05	infobot: no, #maemo mhd is [Modified Hildon Desktop] included and improved in ~CSSU, also see ~matan	10:58
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	10:58
DocScrutinizer05	~mhd	10:58
infobot	rumour has it, mhd is [Modified Hildon Desktop] included and improved in ~CSSU, also see ~matan	10:58
DocScrutinizer05	~listkeys mhd	10:59
infobot	Factoid search of 'mhd' by key (3): mhdns ;; mhd #DEL# ;; #maemo mhd.	10:59
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DocScrutinizer05	~mhd is also http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html DO NOT INSTALL MHD when you have CSSU!! the CSSU version is more recent!	11:03
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	11:03
DocScrutinizer05	~mhd	11:03
infobot	[mhd] [Modified Hildon Desktop] included and improved in ~CSSU, also see ~matan	11:03
DocScrutinizer05	grrr	11:03
DocScrutinizer05	~forget mhd	11:03
infobot	i forgot mhd, DocScrutinizer05	11:03
DocScrutinizer05	~#maemo mhd is also http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html DO NOT INSTALL MHD when you have CSSU!! the CSSU version is more recent!	11:04
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer05	11:04
DocScrutinizer05	~mhd	11:04
infobot	i heard mhd is [Modified Hildon Desktop] included and improved in ~CSSU, also see ~matan, or http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html DO NOT INSTALL MHD when you have CSSU!! the CSSU version is more recent!	11:04
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Maxdamantus	~forget is forgetful	12:46
infobot	Maxdamantus: i didn't have anything called 'is forgetful' to forget	12:46
KotCzarny	~forget what he has said	12:47
infobot	KotCzarny: i didn't have anything called 'what he has said' to forget	12:47
princefakhan_	~forget everything	12:50
infobot	i forgot everything, princefakhan_	12:50
princefakhan_	Oh no.	12:51
princefakhan_	Don't infobot	12:51
princefakhan_	Damn! I put a space before the command	12:51
princefakhan_	Did he really forget everything?	12:51
KotCzarny	guess	12:52
princefakhan_	Shites! We gotta retrain him then	12:53
princefakhan_	Didn't know everyone has this type of access to the bot	12:53
Maxdamantus	~mhd	12:53
infobot	i guess mhd is [Modified Hildon Desktop] included and improved in ~CSSU, also see ~matan, or http://maemo.cloud-7.de/mirrors/matan/my.svgalib.org/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html DO NOT INSTALL MHD when you have CSSU!! the CSSU version is more recent!	12:53
princefakhan_	Ah!	12:53
princefakhan_	~everything	12:54
princefakhan_	EH! Nothing.	12:54
princefakhan_	I was scared as shit. Damn!	12:54
Maxdamantus	~freedom is slavery	12:54
infobot	...but freedom is already something else...	12:54
Maxdamantus	~freedom	12:55
infobot	rumour has it, freedom is the ultimate virtue. Without freedom we are no better than any other animal. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. another word for nothing left to loose	12:55
Maxdamantus	~war is peace	12:55
infobot	...but war is already something else...	12:55
Maxdamantus	~war	12:55
infobot	WAR IS THE SPORT OF THE MASSES! WAR IS OUR GAME! WAAAAAARRRR!!!!	12:55
princefakhan_	~war	12:55
Maxdamantus	~ignorance is strength	12:55
infobot	...but ignorance is already something else...	12:55
Maxdamantus	~ignorance	12:55
infobot	Ignorance is bliss!	12:55
Maxdamantus	-_-	12:56
princefakhan_	He knows too much	12:56
princefakhan_	I wonder if he does something like skynet	12:56
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DocScrutinizer05	~+status	12:58
infobot	Since Mon Sep 28 14:19:23 2015, there have been 10 modifications, 20 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 8 commands. I have been awake for 19h 38m 57s this session, and currently reference 119447 factoids. I'm using about 83148 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 125.87/2.49 child 0/0	12:58
princefakhan_	0 morons?	12:59
DocScrutinizer05	actually I didn't find out yet what "morons" are, in infobot's world. Maybe ask her?	12:59
DocScrutinizer05	~morons	12:59
* infobot cluebats some morons over the head		12:59
DocScrutinizer05	~moron	12:59
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, moron is someone that types long lines starting with "infobot"	12:59
DocScrutinizer05	;-D	13:00
princefakhan_	I pm'd him.	13:00
Maxdamantus	~mormons	13:00
infobot	well, mormons is members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints	13:00
princefakhan_	Thats what ye said	13:00
Maxdamantus	~muslims	13:00
jon_y	~life	13:00
infobot	42 (duh.)	13:00
Maxdamantus	~danish	13:00
infobot	i guess danish is better than swedish. To get danish support in KDE do: apt-get install kde-i18n-da, or a damn fine pastry	13:00
jon_y	heh	13:00
Maxdamantus	~swedish	13:01
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, swedish is better than finnish, or #debian.se, or the gay and swinger communities term for a plain good old hand-job	13:01
princefakhan_	Lol	13:01
Maxdamantus	Ei ole.	13:01
Maxdamantus	~finnish	13:01
infobot	hmm... finnish is better than norweigan, or a misspelling of a popular type of polish	13:01
princefakhan_	How does he compare languages?	13:01
Maxdamantus	Se on.	13:01
DocScrutinizer05	~factinfo finnish	13:02
infobot	finnish -- last modified at Fri May 9 11:15:22 2003 by ricky_clarkson!~ricky_cla@newton-1003.salford.ac.uk; it has been requested 4 times, last by Maxdamantus, 32s ago.	13:02
DocScrutinizer05	~factinfo danish	13:02
infobot	danish -- last modified at Tue Nov 4 00:23:26 2003 by g4lt!galt@134.50.70.19; it has been requested 5 times, last by Maxdamantus, 2m ago.	13:02
Maxdamantus	~windows	13:03
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, windows is either a 64bit hack on the 32 bit hack or just a 32 bit hack on a 16 bit operating system, originally designed for an 8 bit CPU, with a 4 bit system bus, made by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition... or the World of Warcraft bootloader, or the most important collection of bugs, or bloatware, or an operating system	13:03
princefakhan_	Huh. :)	13:04
Maxdamantus	~apple	13:04
infobot	apple is probably a fruit or a company that makes iPods, iPads, iPhones, and Macs, or the thing that Satan used to tempt Eve	13:04
jon_y	>World of Warcraft bootloader	13:05
jon_y	its an OS	13:05
Maxdamantus	so is GRUB.	13:05
princefakhan_	Haha	13:05
jon_y	grub does provide EFI filesystem drivers	13:05
jon_y	I'd consider EFI an OS as well	13:05
* Maxdamantus wants to run GRUB on his N900.		13:05
princefakhan_	Just replace those products to iCraps	13:06
Maxdamantus	it didn't work last time I tried. Maybe will try again soon.	13:06
DocScrutinizer05	uGrub	13:06
* jon_y wants a Xeon in his n900		13:06
princefakhan_	Or iShits	13:06
jon_y	dem sweet 28 core CPUs	13:06
Wizzup	Maxdamantus: you can run grub on arm	13:06
Wizzup	if you must	13:06
Maxdamantus	Yeah, you can build a grub that should run from u-boot, supposedly reusing its terminal etc	13:06
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Maxdamantus	Wizzup: yes, but "ARM" doesn't encapsulate something suitable for a display.	13:07
Maxdamantus	unlike x86, which might be assumed to include VGA.	13:07
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Wizzup	there's simplefb	13:08
Wizzup	back later.	13:08
jon_y	x86 as ACPI	13:08
jon_y	n900 arm doesn't	13:09
jon_y	yet	13:09
jon_y	I'm sure someone can write a bootloader to put up a fake one	13:09
jon_y	since the n900 doesn't actually have changing hardware	13:09
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princefakhan	Oh! Cmon	13:10
princefakhan	I so hate this phone.	13:10
Wizzup	jon_y: actually recent arm has acpi	13:11
Wizzup	https://wiki.linaro.org/LEG/Engineering/Kernel/ACPI	13:11
jon_y	Wizzup: I know	13:12
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jon_y	but it isn't a mandatory spec for arm manufacturers to use	13:12
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jon_y	iirc most ARM devices still use device trees	13:13
Wizzup	see also https://lwn.net/Articles/574439/	13:13
Wizzup	jon_y: luckily, yes.	13:13
jon_y	UEFI for arm is a thing too	13:13
Wizzup	afk	13:13
jon_y	though not everydon does it	13:13
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KotCzarny	princefakhan: what exactly do you hate?	13:29
princefakhan	It's an android device	13:30
princefakhan	It has 2 gigs of memory, and it still restarts when usage reaches more than 90%	13:30
KotCzarny	customized or stock?	13:31
princefakhan	I would say customised. Cyanogen OS.	13:31
princefakhan	I was thinking of rooting it, and installing Cm.	13:31
jon_y	do you have a swap partition?	13:32
princefakhan	At least I would get Android 5.1	13:32
princefakhan	Nah! No swap.	13:32
jon_y	that would explain the reboot	13:33
jon_y	OOMKILLA on the loose	13:33
jon_y	I wish android phones come with serial ports	13:33
princefakhan	I didn't even have many things running.	13:33
princefakhan	This one is badly optimized.	13:33
jon_y	yeah well, everyone writes the app in managed languages	13:34
jon_y	all GC	13:34
jon_y	and GC didn't do its job	13:34
princefakhan	Haha.	13:34
KotCzarny	jon_y: even with oomkilla, properly configured it will kill the right thing	13:34
jon_y	maybe it did kill the right thing	13:34
princefakhan	I have this IRC client, Firefox with 5 pages, and mix radio, and ram usage is already 25%	13:35
jon_y	and the watchdog program rebooted the OS to bring it back up	13:35
princefakhan	EH m! 75	13:35
KotCzarny	princefakhan: if you just want internet radio you might want to try my droid app	13:35
princefakhan	Why not!	13:35
KotCzarny	wrote it because i wasnt able to find non-mem hogging ones	13:35
KotCzarny	http://sourceforge.net/projects/oscp/files/tmp/kccr_app-release.apk/download	13:36
KotCzarny	didnt try it with anything 4.0+ tho	13:36
KotCzarny	but its small, has playlist support, big buttons and few other features	13:37
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jon_y	does it require positional data to work? :)	13:37
princefakhan	Damn! I forgot oscp is cross-platform.	13:37
princefakhan	Well let me be the tester. :)	13:37
KotCzarny	princefakhan: its not oscp, just related	13:37
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princefakhan	Hmmm.	13:37
KotCzarny	but as i said, if you need radio player with a playlist, its perfect	13:38
KotCzarny	did i say its small and has big buttons?	13:38
jon_y	can it have multilayer playlists?	13:38
princefakhan	Well thanks.	13:38
KotCzarny	jon_y: not yet	13:38
KotCzarny	:)	13:38
princefakhan	You did.	13:38
jon_y	ok, feature request! :)	13:38
* jon_y doesn't own any android phone though		13:38
KotCzarny	jon_y: what would that do? apart from displaying positional ads?	13:38
KotCzarny	jon_y: install droid sdk, bam!	13:39
jon_y	KotCzarny: probably	13:39
jon_y	I don't work in ad companies	13:39
jon_y	maybe disable certain radio stations because you can	13:40
jon_y	based on position data	13:40
jon_y	"Sorry this station is only available in Korea"	13:40
jon_y	for no reason	13:40
KotCzarny	"sorry, you need to move 3 steps to the left to play this radio"	13:40
KotCzarny	"no, the other left"	13:41
jon_y	and use your addressbook	13:41
jon_y	and facebook data	13:41
jon_y	and text data	13:41
KotCzarny	i wonder if kccr would work in apkenv	13:41
princefakhan	Haha.	13:43
princefakhan	Well does anyone use apkenv now	13:43
princefakhan	Tho, KotCzarny the buttons overlap in landscape mode on my phone.	13:44
KotCzarny	princefakhan: can you make a screenshot? which os, what resolution	13:45
KotCzarny	(it was only really tested in 2.3.x)	13:45
princefakhan	Well I did. I have no idea where to post the screenshot.	13:46
KotCzarny	imgur.com	13:46
KotCzarny	they dont even require account	13:46
KotCzarny	the best image sharer	13:46
princefakhan	The os is Cyanogen OS. CM v	13:47
princefakhan	CM v12 based on Android 5.0.2	13:47
princefakhan	:)	13:48
jon_y	so, are there any android devices with SD cards left?	13:48
KotCzarny	new ones?	13:49
jon_y	yeah	13:49
jon_y	nexus 6 or some such	13:49
KotCzarny	hmm, samsung galaxy "some model" has it	13:49
jon_y	hmm ok, samsung is still an ass	13:49
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princefakhan	http://imgur.com/GQKEpde,6sBtUc4	13:52
KotCzarny	hmm	13:52
KotCzarny	they dont overlap, just this middle part is too big	13:52
KotCzarny	also, it might be its not using landscape mode files	13:53
KotCzarny	but otherwise it works?	13:53
princefakhan	Well, you are the boss now.	13:53
princefakhan	Yeah.	13:53
princefakhan	Well one more thing.	13:53
KotCzarny	playlist should reside in /sdcard/fav.m3u or favs.m3u dont remember	13:54
KotCzarny	or /mnt/sdcard	13:54
princefakhan	The menu where you have local, favorites fav2, etc	13:54
princefakhan	Local button doesn't work.	13:54
KotCzarny	could be different fs layout/access rights	13:55
KotCzarny	i wrote it long time ago, works well enough and no one requested any feats	13:55
princefakhan	That explains it. Google fucked up the SD card permissions since android kitkat	13:56
KotCzarny	also, if you start playing, it will play in the background, to fully quit press stop before quit	13:56
princefakhan	:)	13:58
princefakhan	Well, a little lollipop love, and this app should work great.	13:58
princefakhan	I mean, completely.	13:58
KotCzarny	:)	13:59
princefakhan	Does anyone know of a fm transmitter for Android.	13:59
KotCzarny	i might update it for newer androids	14:00
princefakhan	I miss that feature from Nokias so much	14:00
KotCzarny	there are fm transmitters attachable to headphones jack	14:00
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princefakhan	Oh no! Not that.	14:01
princefakhan	U am talking about the app that came with Nokia phones.	14:01
princefakhan	It is in n900 too.	14:01
KotCzarny	but to be working it needs proper hardware	14:02
KotCzarny	which is missing in most phones	14:02
princefakhan	You open the music player, set a frequency from the app in device, set the same frequency on your car radio, and boom	14:02
princefakhan	Awww!	14:02
princefakhan	I thought it was all software.	14:03
KotCzarny	and i bet on the ones which DO have needed hardware, there will be such app/feature in software	14:03
KotCzarny	nope	14:03
princefakhan	Probably why I don't know of any such app on Android.	14:03
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DocScrutinizer05	a nice litte app for N900 (yet to be written): tune your car stereo to an "empty frequency", hit the magic app on N900 and N900 automatically tunes in to the frequency your car stereo is on. How it works? simply by listening to the N900's microphone to hear if the radio plays back what the N900 sends	14:15
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Wizzup	DocScrutinizer05: the n900 can also search radio freqs	14:16
Wizzup	is that not easier?	14:16
KotCzarny	different use case	14:16
DocScrutinizer05	I know it can search.	14:16
Wizzup	KotCzarny: not diffent use case	14:16
Wizzup	you make the n900 find an empty freq and BC on it	14:17
DocScrutinizer05	but that doesn't help to avoid tuning car stereo to the frequency that's shown in N900 display	14:17
KotCzarny	does it know which freq car radio is set to?	14:17
Wizzup	KotCzarny: ???	14:17
KotCzarny	see ^	14:17
Wizzup	oooo	14:17
Wizzup	I am totally misreading?	14:17
KotCzarny	yes	14:17
Wizzup	seems like it.	14:17
Wizzup	:)	14:17
Wizzup	oh well	14:17
Wizzup	I liked my application too ^_^	14:17
KotCzarny	though tbh i just programmed one of the buttons to the nokia's freq	14:18
KotCzarny	107.9	14:18
DocScrutinizer05	alas the FM-TX antenna in N900 is pretty poor for RX, and the FM-RX is bound to a headset attached	14:18
Wizzup	yeh	14:18
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DocScrutinizer05	so neither the build-in frequency-scanner in TX chip nor the FM radio could reliably check for empty frequencies	14:19
DocScrutinizer05	however as mentioned above, you can search for empty frequency on your car stereo, and N900 would automagically tune in to the right frequency, while you wouldn't need to know at all which is that particular frequency	14:20
KotCzarny	car radios also support scanning for stations	14:21
DocScrutinizer05	that's pretty useless	14:21
KotCzarny	which just means starting n900 and pushing scan button few times	14:21
DocScrutinizer05	for this usecase	14:21
princefakhan	Qwertyuoopasdfghjllzxcvvb	14:22
DocScrutinizer05	and how would you make sure the frequency used by N900 is a good one? with no interference by a commercial broadcast station	14:23
princefakhan	Oops sorry	14:23
KotCzarny	doc, no commerdial radio uses 107.9 in pl	14:23
KotCzarny	*commercial	14:23
DocScrutinizer05	ok, when I actually ever write such app, I'll add a .pl mode that simply uses 107.9 when in Poland	14:24
KotCzarny	should work	14:24
KotCzarny	now, add gps to the app too	14:24
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KotCzarny	and maybe mind reading so n900 will know the user wants to listen to the radio	14:25
KotCzarny	which would be awesome	14:25
DocScrutinizer05	or wait, I' simply ignore poland and state that it doesn't work there	14:25
freemangordon_	:)	14:26
KotCzarny	still, needs gps	14:26
DocScrutinizer05	no	14:26
DocScrutinizer05	and I got no time to do that sort of sophism discussion	14:26
KotCzarny	we all know that, thats why you are on irc	14:27
KotCzarny	(which is a known time waster)	14:27
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, indeed, all the time kicking users like you consumes lots of time, particularly when you don't do it right away and instead try to explain why they are in for a kick with their nonsense	14:28
princefakhan	~nokia	14:30
infobot	rumour has it, nokia is a cellphone company from Finland.	14:30
princefakhan	Not anymore infobot	14:30
KotCzarny	most bullies are psychopaths	14:30
KotCzarny	and/or sociopaths	14:30
princefakhan	~sociopath	14:31
jon_y	social paths~	14:31
jon_y	socialpuffs	14:31
jon_y	:)	14:31
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05		14:31
princefakhan	:)	14:31
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KotCzarny	abusing one's power is sure sign of such	14:32
princefakhan	Wasn't it t9000	14:32
DocScrutinizer05	you're begging for a ban, eh?	14:32
Wizzup	...?	14:32
princefakhan	Who?	14:33
DocScrutinizer05	that guy who couldn't help but getting personal when I told I have no time to discuss nonsense like mindreading, which obviously was meant as a (unsound) criticism of a nice concept for an app	14:35
Wizzup	KotCzarny: technically you could hook up some openerp (or whatever it is called)	14:35
Wizzup	and it could read your mind	14:35
princefakhan	EH m! Okay	14:36
princefakhan	Is there anything not possible?	14:36
KotCzarny	wizzup, is it at the stage when it can be used in the field?	14:36
Wizzup	somewhat, I think	14:37
Wizzup	I get to play with it in a few weeks probably	14:37
KotCzarny	ie. size/battery drain	14:37
Wizzup	uhhh that I don't know.	14:37
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ceene	it's quite easy to make FM transmitter work with headphones attached	15:11
ebzzry	What is that camera app wherein you can specify where to focus by tapping on that area of the view?	15:12
ceene	in my experience, not that it helps much, though, if there's a nearby station (both in terms of distance and frequency) the antenna won't be of very much help	15:12
ceene	maybe it's fcamera?	15:12
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sixwheeledbeast	beware of the whole fcam drivers issue....	15:17
ceene	what's wrong with them?	15:19
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DocScrutinizer05	afaik there's no such cam app on N900	15:22
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DocScrutinizer05	I think that's N9 which does that touch-to-focus thing	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	can't recall to have seen it on N900	15:23
freemangordon_	what is the point of having that touch-to-focus if you have HW button for that purpose is beyond my understanding	15:24
Pali	it is possible to use front webcam in cam app?	15:25
DocScrutinizer05	then, I only know fcam, nicocam aka CSSU-T cam, BlessN900 and stock. And afaik none of them does focus-on-touch, but maybe I forgot	15:25
wnd	Maybe it was just my device, but having FCam modified camera firmware made my device rather unstable when using the camera. Once every ~ten times I was taking pictures the thing would simply freeze forcing slapping out the battery and as a result occasionally causing corrupted filesystem, forcing a manual fsck.	15:25
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: sure	15:25
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DocScrutinizer05	Pali: in theory. some cam app can even switch to front cam iirc	15:25
Pali	I was not able to use front cam in any app except gmail video call	15:26
DocScrutinizer05	mirror?	15:26
Pali	mirror show me dard screen	15:26
freemangordon_	mirror works, but you need to tweak brightenss etc by some other means	15:27
Pali	looks like color auto adjust or white balance not working...	15:27
Pali	but it works fine in video calls...	15:27
DocScrutinizer05	umm, first start another app that uses and thus configures the chip	15:27
freemangordon_	because gtalk/skype adjust the controls	15:27
Pali	so I would expect that cam app should support it	15:27
Pali	somehow	15:27
freemangordon_	it does not, afaik it is very simple app	15:28
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DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:~# cat bin/videostreaming	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	gst-launch v4l2src device=/dev/video0 ! videoscale! video/x-raw-yuv,width=320,height=240 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! jpegenc ! tcpserversink host=$pcip port=5000	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:~#	15:31
DocScrutinizer05	switch video0 to video1 for other cam	15:32
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DocScrutinizer05	http://wstaw.org/m/2015/09/29/plasma-desktopRb9051.png gst-launch-0.10 tcpclientsrc host=192.168.4.41 port=5000 ! jpegdec ! autovideosink	15:37
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bencoh	whitebalance with front cam is aweful	15:50
KotCzarny	having touch-to-focus would help users with dead camera button (not that there are any)	15:51
KotCzarny	unless one talks about focusing on specific part of the picture	15:51
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ebzzry	What is a decent browser, aside from MicroB?	16:15
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KotCzarny	fennec, opera, midori, qmlwebkit and few others	16:15
ebzzry	KotCzarny: thanks	16:15
KotCzarny	fennec is fierfox 17 but compiled only for cssu-thumb	16:16
ebzzry	KotCzarny: ok	16:16
KotCzarny	(or cssu, dont remember)	16:16
Wizzup	fennec is firefox, but not really firefox	16:16
Wizzup	it's a diff ui for the same rendering engine	16:16
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KotCzarny	thought shortcut	16:17
KotCzarny	still, 256M of mem is not enough for good browsing experience with any of them	16:18
ebzzry	ok	16:20
ebzzry	what are good games that uses brain?	16:21
KotCzarny	sgtpuzzles	16:21
KotCzarny	hex-a-hop	16:21
KotCzarny	gnurobbo	16:22
KotCzarny	chess	16:22
KotCzarny	gweled	16:22
ebzzry	is sgtpuzzles in -devel?	16:22
KotCzarny	sgt-puzzles	16:23
KotCzarny	in extras	16:23
KotCzarny	but much newer version in -devel	16:23
ebzzry	ok	16:23
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ceene	scummvm :&	17:00
ceene	:)	17:00
ceene	a strange thing happened today	17:01
ceene	a powered off computer connected to the lan made the switch unwilling to switch anything	17:01
KotCzarny	static electricity?	17:04
L29Ah	my hobby: crashing omp	17:05
ceene	nop	17:05
ceene	the led on the network card lighted on when plugged the cable	17:06
ceene	the motherboard had power but was off	17:06
L29Ah	ebzzry: try building dillo :]	17:06
ebzzry	L29Ah: isn't dillo built already?	17:06
ceene	i removed all power (cable and all), restored power and the light didn't get on again	17:06
KotCzarny	there is dillo ine extras-devel	17:07
ceene	so the network card was in a very strange sate	17:07
ceene	state	17:07
ceene	very weird	17:07
KotCzarny	shouldnt block switch from functioning	17:07
ceene	i know	17:08
ceene	it's a dumb switch	17:08
ceene	maybe the card was sending shit and saturating the switch or something	17:08
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L29Ah	oh ok	17:15
ebzzry	What's a good (or best) reversi/othello game?	17:20
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KotCzarny	apt-cache search reversi	17:20
ebzzry	I mean, what would you suggest	17:21
KotCzarny	never played reversi/othello	17:25
KotCzarny	so i've just suggested search	17:25
esaym153	KotCzarny: so glxgears runs on my n810, but only 15 fps lol	17:27
KotCzarny	plenty :P	17:30
KotCzarny	enough for educational apps	17:30
ebzzry	ok	17:30
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esaym153	KotCzarny: well don't know really. I was going to make a game for my daughter, a combo between golf and pong, basically guiding a bunch of bouncing balls around on screen into a hole or something.	18:09
esaym153	could do it easy and ugly with SDL using squares	18:09
esaym153	but I got some code to draw true spheres in opengl thatI could use	18:10
esaym153	but don't know if I got the power now	18:10
esaym153	looked at n900 prices, not bad. Then noticed the N9 model and the new Jolla stuff	18:11
esaym153	seems interesting	18:11
esaym153	but everything above the n900 makes it look like using perl and the sdl will be a pain if at all possible	18:12
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KotCzarny	target n900, not bad price/features ratio	18:25
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esaym153	KotCzarny: yea thinking that. But man, the small device market it so scattered right now. Every device has a different opengl support. Its crazy	18:44
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esaym153	so just don't know if "staying in the dark ages" with the old version of opengl is right. Would be nice if by making games for my kids, I could get enough stuff on my resume to get a real game dev job	18:46
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KotCzarny	check work offers, see what they use, target that?	18:47
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esaym153	perhaps	18:50
esaym153	or just buy n900, and do what ever I feel like :)	18:51
KotCzarny	i regularly see n900 for 25-35usd locally	18:53
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esaym153	KotCzarny: where? ebay has crappy deals	19:15
KotCzarny	browse your local classifieds sites	19:15
KotCzarny	in usa try craigslist	19:15
esaym153	KotCzarny: 0 results for any city within 2,000 miles	19:20
L29Ah	mfw miles	19:20
esaym153	KotCzarny: I guess you are not in USA? the nokia stuff was never too popular here	19:20
KotCzarny	yeah, .eu	19:21
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Sicelo	ceene (and others interested), the application you're looking for is lfocus	19:34
Sicelo	as for why one would need it ... remember the button is for auto-focus. lfocus allows you to manually adjust the focus as you like	19:35
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freemangordon	Sicelo: the same does nikicam	19:37
freemangordon	*nikocam	19:37
Sicelo	never used it.	19:38
freemangordon	it is part of CSSU :)	19:38
freemangordon	camera-ui2 aka nikocam	19:38
Sicelo	in that case i don't see the function :P	19:38
freemangordon	sure, you need to open the kbd ;)	19:39
freemangordon	but I don;t remember the keys	19:39
Sicelo	and .. i remeber there was a lot of controvesy re: nikocam .. whether correct or incorrect .. lfocus would help for those religiously agains nikocam	19:39
Sicelo	let me test	19:39
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Sicelo	at least the basic keys (without modifier) don't seem to do any focus stuff. nice shortcuts though :) "c" for capturing	19:43
KotCzarny	h?	19:44
KotCzarny	(as in help)	19:44
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Sicelo	https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Features/Camera_UI	19:48
freemangordon	f/F	19:48
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Sicelo	yes, see now :)	19:49
Sicelo	i'm surprised there's even RAW format? :O	19:49
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freemangordon	:nod:	19:58
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Sicelo	capture with "c" is very nice. wow! helps a lot against any unintended shake. on-screen button can't compare	20:01
freemangordon	see	20:01
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Pali	"b/B switch to the front camera/Switch to the back Camera (Works in Video Mode Only)"	20:29
Pali	cool	20:29
Pali	why is this feature not possible to configure via GUI?	20:30
KotCzarny	because no one added it?	20:30
Sicelo	waiting for Pali to add it :)	20:30
Pali	and only via hidden key shortcut?	20:30
Pali	"t toggle White LED"	20:30
Pali	same invisible thing	20:30
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buZz	hmmf	21:11
buZz	is there some method to get OS2008 to have working bluetooth audio? :P	21:11
buZz	for non-headset devices	21:11
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reinob	when I start irssi I always see a notice that my nick is registered and should identify, which irssi does. so I'm sure I'm registered :)	22:16
princefakhan	but?	22:16
reinob	sorry, wrong channel	22:16
princefakhan	oh!	22:16
reinob	:)	22:17
princefakhan	:)	22:17
KotCzarny	maybe it registers after that message comes through	22:18
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KotCzarny	:)	22:18
KotCzarny	s/registers/identifies/	22:18
reinob	KotCzarny: yes, that's what happens. I was just confirming to juiceme that my nick is registered. For the council cloak	22:19
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