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| Maxdamantus | The point with what I'm talking about is it should be a runtime optimisation. | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Maxdamantus | and because it's content-addressing code, it shouldn't have to give up other optimisations that can't be done when conforming to ABIs. | 00:02 |
| Maxdamantus | (again, runtime optimisations, not compile-time) | 00:03 |
| Maxdamantus | Current C compilers are just horribly slow because of what they do. | 00:03 |
| Maxdamantus | convert each source file to an object file, then at some point link and hope that they can fit together. | 00:04 |
| Maxdamantus | Technology sucks. | 00:09 |
| Maxdamantus | Biology has already made crazy "brain" things that noone understands but which seem to far surpass computers in computational power per unit volume. | 00:10 |
| Luke-Jr | vectis: you don't need to emulate the N900, just the ARM CPU | 00:17 |
| Luke-Jr | vectis: chroot + qemu-system | 00:17 |
| Maxdamantus | Luke-Jr: that seems like a weird combination. Do you mean qemu-user? | 00:17 |
| Luke-Jr | oh, yes, sorry | 00:17 |
| Maxdamantus | and if you can't be bothered setting up binfmt, proot instead of chroot. | 00:19 |
| Maxdamantus | (or are not privileged to) | 00:19 |
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| Tekk_ | Is there an MMS application that properly handles group chats? | 00:34 |
| Tekk_ | FMMS is capable of doing multicast, but it doesn't actually keep the information so you can't reply to the group, for example | 00:34 |
| Tekk_ | unless you manually re-add everyone | 00:34 |
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| esaym153 | ugh, why the heck is mmc1 and 2 mounted with noexec? How do I stop that, or remount it so it isn't? | 00:41 |
| Maxdamantus | Maybe `mount -o remount,exec /media/mmc1` | 00:43 |
| Luke-Jr | Tekk_: I didn't even know SMS/MMS supported groups | 00:44 |
| esaym153 | Maxdamantus: I think I found it: http://www.vinc17.org/maemo/index.en.html | 00:45 |
| Maxdamantus | Ah, Maemo 4 or something. | 00:46 |
| Maxdamantus | That remount thing will probably also work (each time you use it) | 00:47 |
| Maxdamantus | Oh, if the issue is partly FAT, maybe not. | 00:48 |
| Maxdamantus | if you're using FAT, you probably have other issues too. | 00:48 |
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| Tekk_ | hm | 00:49 |
| Tekk_ | Luke-Jr: actually I'm not entirely sure how it works, but it seems like other mobile OSes seem to have some sort of group chat functionality | 00:50 |
| Tekk_ | from what I've seen at least | 00:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | group chat for SMS/MMS? that's a brilliant function, prolly invented and implemented on their subsidized phones by the carriers. SMS has no multicast, IOW answering to a chat with a group of 200 users means you're sending 200 SMS or MMS (maybe -1 for yourself). Now *I* pay 19 cent per SMS, a lot more for MMS | 01:10 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: interesting | 01:10 |
| * Wizzup has free sms in .eu | 01:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and particularly interesting: | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~200*0.19 | 01:11 |
| infobot | 38 | 01:11 |
| Tekk_ | Well they tend to not be for large groups, to be fair :p | 01:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: yes, "free" | 01:16 |
| Wizzup | as free as internet packets | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly? who donated that generous gift to you | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you either pay with your money or with your privacy, no matter what. I don't know of a single *free* service for sending SMS | 01:17 |
| Wizzup | oh, sure, it costs. | 01:18 |
| Wizzup | it's just 'unlimited' for very little money | 01:18 |
| Wizzup | and: tmobile | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually you get "200 FREE sms for only 19.99 per month" or sth like that | 01:18 |
| Wizzup | no, it's unlimited, just like my 3g (64kb/s 'unlimited') | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and bs like "group SMS app" are made to lure you into those offers | 01:20 |
| Wizzup | never saw that | 01:20 |
| Maxdamantus | so 20 GiB a month. | 01:21 |
| Wizzup | I just did not want to worry about extra costs in .eu | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it a typical offer of our "up-to" times | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "up to 16 Mbit/s, up to 3 GB/month, up to 300 free SMS per month" NO LESS than 29 EUR per month | 01:27 |
| Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: I can make unlimited calls (in my own country), texts (eu), and internet (eu) for not that much moneh | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least O2 changed their standard procedure a few years ago: formerly when the 30 days prepaid data volume*period expired, they switched to charging a 19ct per started minute*MB. Now they actually have the decency to simply stop the data traffic | 01:30 |
| Wizzup | money* | 01:30 |
| Wizzup | seems like a decent deal for me. | 01:30 |
| Wizzup | I prefer to pay for some service and not be bothered by just how much they would ask for a single sms/text. | 01:31 |
| Wizzup | Because 19ct is bloody ridiculous | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, depends on your usage pattern, often it's actually OK | 01:31 |
| Maxdamantus | 3 GB is enough to send far more than 300 messages through other protocols. | 01:31 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: great, now I just need to find a free sms bridge | 01:31 |
| Wizzup | Oh wait... it was included in the internet package anyway | 01:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Stupid limits based on marketing rather than technical issues. | 01:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Commerce sucks. | 01:33 |
| Maxdamantus | Everything sucks. | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: the providers calculate the prices on average usage. You may (or may not) profit from their offers when you're significantly above average. Unless your provider has additional 'fair use' terms that limit your service nevertheless as soon as you exceed what they think is "average" and thus "fair" usage | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 64kbit/s is pretty much ridiculously useless "internet" access | 01:38 |
| Maxdamantus | (that's 20 GiB/mo) | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it would serve me right for IRC | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Maxdamantus: so what? | 01:38 |
| Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: even if I pay more, a constant price makes me feel better | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it only takes two weeks to download the new installation DVD iso? | 01:39 |
| Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: useless? I have my ssh whereever I go :) | 01:39 |
| Wizzup | And I travel in .eu quite a lot | 01:39 |
| Wizzup | buying 'internet access' per country or per 'MB' is already more expensive, and still a one time thing | 01:40 |
| Wizzup | as an experiment I also have 64kbit/s in my home country, and it's been just fine so far. | 01:40 |
| Wizzup | I don't know what you do over 3g - but I just use ssh, and sometimes check some trains. | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just saying there's no such thing like "free SMS". They been free (as in beer) when they were invented, back in the 1990s | 01:40 |
| Wizzup | sure, for the provider | 01:40 |
| Wizzup | I'm not saying it's not all a big scam | 01:41 |
| Wizzup | :) | 01:41 |
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| Maxdamantus | Regarding the registers file again: https://vcs.maemo.org/git/?p=kernel-power;a=blob;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/bq27x00-sysfs-registers.diff;h=3f0ac979e4dfc191fa0321e15a0d7f136b1400d2;hb=d40aed045abdfa257a112079efe7e4a03d9de656 | 07:03 |
| Maxdamantus | So probably not something that's going to appear in mainline. | 07:04 |
| * Maxdamantus wonders if there's a typical way to handle that sort of thing. | 07:04 | |
| Maxdamantus | Is the source for the CSSU version of camera-ui still available somewhere? | 08:24 |
| Maxdamantus | Ah, it's in community-testing. | 08:28 |
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| * Maxdamantus is going to see if he can add some sort of "fix" mechanism to camera-ui. | 08:51 | |
| Maxdamantus | so when it's in that mode, it doesn't autofocus/autoexpose, etc | 08:51 |
| Maxdamantus | have to keep setting focus back to closest after taking each picture, and if you want to take something like a panorama, you should have the same exposure/ISO/colour/focus/.. | 08:52 |
| Maxdamantus | fcamera kind of does it, but it's weird. | 08:53 |
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| ebzzry | Where is modified-hildon-desktop? | 09:47 |
| KotCzarny | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/m/modified-hildon-desktop/ | 09:49 |
| KotCzarny | could be in -testing or just extras too | 09:49 |
| KotCzarny | nope, just -devel | 09:49 |
| KotCzarny | usual extras-devel warning applies | 09:50 |
| ebzzry | By the way, which is more practical, having just -devel, or both -devel and -testing? | 09:56 |
| sixwheeledbeast | er mhd is included in CSSU | 09:58 |
| ebzzry | sixwheeledbeast: cssu-testing? | 09:58 |
| sixwheeledbeast | yep | 09:58 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | and you are best to only have -devel otherwise you'll slow HAM down, it also strongly advised you only enable devel when you need it. | 10:00 |
| abramelin | Hello. Does anyone know of a good calendar / agenda / organiser application? | 10:00 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I use the Qt version of the stock one? | 10:01 |
| abramelin | I'm not content with it, as it cannot remind you earlier than 15 minutes beforehand | 10:02 |
| abramelin | And there are not recurring reminders | 10:02 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I doubt mhd in extras is even up to date with CSSU changes. | 10:02 |
| KotCzarny | ebzzy: never ever do apt-get upgrade (or update in ham) with extras-devel enabled | 10:02 |
| KotCzarny | just use it to install single packages | 10:03 |
| sixwheeledbeast | abramelin: I believe in the Qt version you can, not sure about reoccuring tho | 10:03 |
| KotCzarny | abramelin: setup a regular alarm clock for recurring events? | 10:04 |
| KotCzarny | you can choose which days of week its active | 10:04 |
| sixwheeledbeast | For reoccuring things I have always used alarmed | 10:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~qalender | 10:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~alarmed | 10:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~ping | 10:05 |
| infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss | 10:05 |
| sixwheeledbeast | hmm | 10:05 |
| KotCzarny | ~listkeys alarm | 10:06 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'alarm' by key (8): 12 alarmer ;; gtkalarm ;; smoke alarm ;; alarm applet ;; ipaq alarm ;; argh - some car alarm ;; ants alarm ;; ipaqalarm. | 10:06 |
| KotCzarny | ~listkeys calendar | 10:06 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'calendar' by key (10): calendars for the web ;; event calendar ;; mod_perl calendar system ;; tkccalendar ;; myphpcalendar ;; rosenet community calendar ;; cst-calendar ;; webcalendar ;; webevent calendar ;; calendar faq. | 10:06 |
| ebzzry | sixwheeledbeast: thanks | 10:06 |
| ebzzry | BTW, when installing catorise, I got: "Can't locate Locale/gettext.pm in @INC ..." | 10:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ebzzry: np | 10:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I would use catorise myself | 10:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/would/wouldn't/ | 10:07 |
| infobot | sixwheeledbeast meant: I wouldn't use catorise myself | 10:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | abramelin: talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90820 for Qt Calendar | 10:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~qalendar | 10:08 |
| sixwheeledbeast | infobot: qalendar is http://wiki.maemo.org/Qalendar | 10:09 |
| infobot | sixwheeledbeast: okay | 10:09 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | abramelin: the other work around if you do not wish to install alarmed for your re-occuring events is to import an iCal made elsewhere into your calendar | 10:11 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ebzzry: There are many "widgetz" that offer limited extra functionality, however they are normally costly to system performance. | 10:13 |
| abramelin | sixwheeledbeast how can I install qalendar? I couldn't find it in extras-devel | 10:21 |
| KotCzarny | no info on that wiki page/ | 10:22 |
| sixwheeledbeast | abramelin: it's listed on the wiki page how to change your default calendar to qalendar. The package currently is in -devel I believe. | 10:23 |
| KotCzarny | cssu-devel or extras-devel? | 10:23 |
| sixwheeledbeast | also worth reading the thread ^^^ | 10:23 |
| KotCzarny | yeah, info about install is in wiki (indirectly but is) | 10:24 |
| abramelin | extas-devel | 10:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | KotCzarny: you should know better :P extras | 10:24 |
| KotCzarny | swb: i've just started my cssu adventure :P | 10:25 |
| KotCzarny | cssu-thumb even | 10:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | cssu-devel is experimental system updates for devs, apt-get only! | 10:26 |
| KotCzarny | yeah | 10:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | cssu-thumb is pretty solid I would use it only I don't wish to be forced into some of the other packages it comes with | 10:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | happy only stable | 10:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | s/only/on/ | 10:27 |
| infobot | sixwheeledbeast meant: happy on stable | 10:27 |
| KotCzarny | im planning on creating some dummy replacement packages | 10:27 |
| sixwheeledbeast | still not stumbled on that thread of mt's about dummy packages | 10:28 |
| KotCzarny | in debian its done via equivs util | 10:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | That maybe it, ported | 10:29 |
| KotCzarny | http://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/ | 10:29 |
| abramelin | sixwheeledbeast the thread only tells me to look for a package called qalendar in extras-devel, and the instructions on the wiki assume that I've already installed it | 10:29 |
| abramelin | Am I overlooking something? | 10:29 |
| KotCzarny | abramelin: wiki page explains gotchas for qalendar | 10:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | nope, install package with HAM (or whatever). Then do the instructions on the wiki so the widget will default to qalendar. | 10:30 |
| ebzzry | sixwheeledbeast: ok. thanks. | 10:32 |
| sixwheeledbeast | KotCzarny: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92653 | 10:33 |
| abramelin | sixwheeledbeast that's the point. I can't find any package named qalendar | 10:33 |
| sixwheeledbeast | abramelin: oh well it's there. maybe your repos are incorrect or out of date? | 10:34 |
| KotCzarny | swb: thx, last time i looked at equivs it required some recent debian utils | 10:37 |
| sixwheeledbeast | KotCzarny: I have never tried it but it appears to work from reading the thread | 10:38 |
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| KotCzarny | The mere existance of this package is a great indicator for how broken Maemo really is. | 10:39 |
| KotCzarny | hehe | 10:39 |
| abramelin | Yeah, I think there's definitely something wrong with my repositories. I can't find nearly as many applications as before, and half the applications I install don't show up in the menu | 10:40 |
| KotCzarny | abramelin: it's a fresh install? | 10:41 |
| abramelin | Yeah | 10:41 |
| KotCzarny | what repos do you have enabled? | 10:41 |
| abramelin | extras-testing, extras-devel, cssu-testing | 10:42 |
| KotCzarny | enable extras | 10:42 |
| KotCzarny | and disable extras-devel | 10:42 |
| abramelin | In fact, extras was also enabled | 10:42 |
| KotCzarny | and 'before' was it configured by you or some second-handed fresh buy? | 10:42 |
| abramelin | I reflashed | 10:43 |
| ebzzry | sixwheeledbeast: isn't mhd's name modified-hildon-desktop? I have CSSU-Testing but I can't search it via 'apt-cache search modified-hildon-desktop' | 10:44 |
| abramelin | extras-testing was only enabled in Faster Application Manager but I've enabled it in the normal one too now | 10:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ebzzry: the packages is not installed but the patches are included in the system | 10:45 |
| KotCzarny | swb, ask him if he has cssu or stock | 10:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | abramelin: qalendar is in -devel not -testing | 10:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | KotCzarny: testing ^^^ | 10:46 |
| KotCzarny | right | 10:46 |
| KotCzarny | question is, was it properly installed? | 10:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ~xy | 10:46 |
| infobot | i guess xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal | 10:46 |
| KotCzarny | i have mixed feeling about cssu installation process | 10:47 |
| KotCzarny | (it requires proper repos setup and clicking on enabler icon) | 10:47 |
| sixwheeledbeast | KotCzarny: it had to be designed that way. | 10:47 |
| ebzzry | sixwheeledbeast: how can I make the patches active? | 10:48 |
| KotCzarny | i understand, still, repos setup should be checked and fixed by installer | 10:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | not sure if it can check stock repos, it installs the new repos for you. | 10:49 |
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| KotCzarny | still, having cssu-thumb is worth it | 10:50 |
| KotCzarny | and i thank cssu team and freemangordon | 10:50 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 10:50 |
| ebzzry | by the way, what's -thumb? | 10:51 |
| Tekk_ | ebzzry: it's a way to save memory | 10:51 |
| Tekk_ | it's a separate arm instruction set where a lot of the instructions take up half as much memory | 10:51 |
| Tekk_ | (for the very basic version) | 10:51 |
| ebzzry | Ya, I remember now. | 10:51 |
| KotCzarny | but is not that much tested package wise on maemo | 10:51 |
| Luke-Jr | I wonder if -thumb is why recording calls doesn't work | 10:52 |
| ebzzry | So, regarding my question earlier, how will I take into effect the MHD patches from CSSU-Testing? | 10:52 |
| Tekk_ | I actually wonder why -thumb wasn't the default in the first place | 10:52 |
| KotCzarny | luke, install stock + cssu and compare | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 10:52 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 10:53 |
| KotCzarny | tekk: bugs in chip | 10:53 |
| Tekk_ | ah | 10:53 |
| KotCzarny | ie. unstable at places | 10:53 |
| Tekk_ | I'd always assumed it was the same shining competence that gave us the dependencies in packages :p | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell ebzzry about jrtools | 10:53 |
| Luke-Jr | KotCzarny: too much time/trouble | 10:53 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | ~tell ebzzry about cssu-thumb | 10:54 |
| KotCzarny | luke, n900 devices go cheaply nowadays, grab some | 10:54 |
| Luke-Jr | meh | 10:54 |
| Luke-Jr | I have a spare, but still takes time | 10:54 |
| Luke-Jr | I haven't flashed fresh since 2010 or earlier. | 10:55 |
| KotCzarny | flashing and installing few apps can be done in 15-30 mins | 10:55 |
| Luke-Jr | so I'd have to read up on how | 10:55 |
| KotCzarny | ~flashing | 10:55 |
| infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh | 10:55 |
| KotCzarny | use docs tool ./flash-it-all.sh | 10:55 |
| KotCzarny | its fully automatic | 10:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ebzzry: the list of mhd features is on the cssu wiki age I believe | 10:55 |
| KotCzarny | s/docs/doc's/ | 10:55 |
| ebzzry | hmm | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Features/hildon-desktop | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Features | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 10:59 |
| ebzzry | Can anyone point me to the customizing rx-51 page? | 11:00 |
| KotCzarny | what do you mean by that | 11:01 |
| KotCzarny | maemo is all about customizing | 11:01 |
| KotCzarny | and hacking | 11:01 |
| ebzzry | I mean, are there now things about rx-51 now, aside from it lives in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 | 11:03 |
| KotCzarny | still too generic | 11:03 |
| KotCzarny | what do you want to do | 11:03 |
| ebzzry | I lost my config. I'll try to restore it from memory, then I'll ask if I'm stuck. | 11:04 |
| KotCzarny | ~bm | 11:04 |
| infobot | rumour has it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 11:04 |
| KotCzarny | for future reference for you | 11:05 |
| ebzzry | Ya. I remember using that before. | 11:05 |
| ebzzry | Forgive my ignorance but what is uBoot? | 11:06 |
| KotCzarny | ~uboot | 11:06 |
| infobot | N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 | 11:06 |
| ebzzry | What does it do? | 11:06 |
| KotCzarny | see the link? | 11:08 |
| ebzzry | Are the Qole, Ruskie, Matan, 0xab still alive? | 11:09 |
| KotCzarny | haven't seen them on irc | 11:09 |
| KotCzarny | see the tmo user statistic pages for their last activity date | 11:09 |
| ebzzry | I mean the repos | 11:09 |
| KotCzarny | same | 11:10 |
| ebzzry | Ohh. uBoot has bootmenu too? | 11:12 |
| ebzzry | can uboot and backupmenu co-exist? | 11:12 |
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| Maxdamantus | ebzzry: u-boot can practically coexist with anything. | 11:20 |
| ebzzry | Maxdamantus: ok | 11:20 |
| Maxdamantus | I think backupmenu is just within Linux, so it shouldn't clash. | 11:20 |
| ebzzry | Are there must-have apps before, that are considered deprecated now, or maybe supplanted by other apps? | 11:21 |
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| Maxdamantus | u-boot is a bootloader that can be used to load a desired kernel with desired arguments and a desired initrd. | 11:21 |
| Wizzup | "apps" :) | 11:22 |
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| Maxdamantus | Hm. I figured out how to remove the dialogue that pops up when you connect a USB cable: uninstall hildon-status-bar-usb | 11:29 |
| Maxdamantus | but something else turns the screen on. | 11:30 |
| * Maxdamantus suspects it's mce. | 11:30 | |
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| Maxdamantus | Hm. Does `mce` just listen for commands from something else to toggle the display? | 11:36 |
| Maxdamantus | If I disable the `display` module, the display doesn't turn on based on USB, but it doesn't turn on otherwise either. | 11:38 |
| Maxdamantus | but something else seems to maintain a toggle for the input. | 11:38 |
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| Maxdamantus | so without mce turning the screen on/off, the input still toggles based on flicking the switch on the right, etc | 11:39 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: at some point you will have stripped out so much from maemo you'd be better of building your own mobile os | 11:46 |
| Maxdamantus | I'd like to do that at some point. | 11:47 |
| Maxdamantus | but it wouldn't necessarily be a "mobile os" | 11:47 |
| Maxdamantus | it'd just be a system similar to the ones I already use, just slightly better optimised for a small device with a touchscreen and slightly reduced keyboard. | 11:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aka maemo | 11:48 |
| Maxdamantus | it's annoying trying to set all that up on my only phone though. | 11:48 |
| Maxdamantus | Maemo isn't much like the other systems I use. | 11:48 |
| Maxdamantus | it's probably more like it than other commercial phone OSes. | 11:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | N900 probably isn't much like the other PCs you use | 11:49 |
| Maxdamantus | Why not? | 11:50 |
| Maxdamantus | It's a box with a PCB inside that has a CPU and some other components. | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | krhrhr | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that definition applies even to my microwave oven | 11:50 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 11:51 |
| Maxdamantus | maybe if those components were useful enough and I could run Linux on the CPU, I'd want to spend more time on it. | 11:51 |
| Maxdamantus | er, thought you said my microwave oven. | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I'm already spending too much time on my oven | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | there are fridges that are connected to the internet | 11:51 |
| KotCzarny | and coffee makers | 11:52 |
| KotCzarny | and vending machines | 11:53 |
| freemangordon | Maxdamantus: there is hald plugin for detecting usb cable | 11:53 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, maemo is nice enough to be used as an os, but it has annoyances | 11:53 |
| KotCzarny | being old and not being able to upgrade it to recent libs is one of them | 11:53 |
| Maxdamantus | freemangordon: so does mce look at that? | 11:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes. For example pukeaudio | 11:54 |
| freemangordon | Maxdamantus: use the source Luke | 11:54 |
| freemangordon | ~mce | 11:54 |
| infobot | MCE = Machine Check Exception. Mode Control Entity | 11:54 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 11:54 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, got the source, looked at it for a few minutes. | 11:54 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: amen to that | 11:54 |
| KotCzarny | ~listkeys mce | 11:54 |
| infobot | Factoid search of 'mce' by key (11): #maemo mcebug ;; weathercode tlemcen zenata ;; mce ;; toolbox _delmcentries ;; toolbox _getmcentry ;; airport mce ;; toolbox _setmcentries ;; mcedit ;; weathercode kmce ;; weathercode mmce ;; weathercode mcentire air national guard weather facility base. | 11:54 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: though, if people manage to get all the core parts open, you could theoretically port those parts | 11:55 |
| Wizzup | to newer versions | 11:55 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: actually, we have most of the core parts open | 11:55 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, kernel+glibc is a must | 11:55 |
| freemangordon | iirc it is only PA modules and omap3camd that are show-stoppers | 11:55 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: what about openssl? gnutls? support for newer crypto? openssh? :) | 11:55 |
| Wizzup | freemangordon: right. Although cameras are not a necessary part of the 'open core' :-) | 11:56 |
| freemangordon | neither is sound, but still | 11:56 |
| Wizzup | freemangordon: so basically the -voice module? | 11:56 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup, do they rely on some n900 specific hw/libs? once you have recent glibs you can pretty much upgrade them too | 11:56 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 11:56 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: ^^^ | 11:56 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: well, I'm not a debian-package expert, and I think it'll still entail quite some work | 11:56 |
| Wizzup | freemangordon: ? | 11:57 |
| Wizzup | Yeah. :) | 11:57 |
| freemangordon | Wizzup: the ":nod:" was pointed to you | 11:57 |
| Maxdamantus | Debian stable is still using an old-enough glibc. | 11:57 |
| Maxdamantus | 2.13 | 11:57 |
| Wizzup | why would you want an old one? I don't get that. | 11:57 |
| * Maxdamantus wonders when it's going to upgrade. | 11:57 | |
| Wizzup | To be honest, I'm much more a fan of the rolling distro idea. | 11:57 |
| Maxdamantus | Because 2.14 doesn't support Linux 2.6.28 | 11:57 |
| Wizzup | Packages get updates continually, but you can decide to stay at some older (more stable) versions fory ears | 11:58 |
| KotCzarny | freemangordon: thanks for the work on cssu-thumb, do you still use/maintain it? | 11:58 |
| * Wizzup uses cssu-thumb | 11:58 | |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: if I had a choice I'd go for musl libc :) | 11:58 |
| KotCzarny | wizzup: i think l29ah tried using musl and had problems | 11:58 |
| Wizzup | I use musl on several systems and it works, so I don't know what 'problems' means. But yeah, regardless | 11:59 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: yes, recently I was very short on spare time and very tired, things are getting better now, so I'll issue a new update soon | 11:59 |
| freemangordon | the question "do you use it" is pointless :) | 12:00 |
| KotCzarny | freemangordon: my suggestion is to recompile next few entries in top | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tomorrow mega-moon | 12:00 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: like which? | 12:00 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, let me find the log | 12:01 |
| freemangordon | ok | 12:01 |
| Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: tonight even, yeah :) | 12:01 |
| Maxdamantus | I think I've found the line in mce to skip. | 12:01 |
| Wizzup | 'bloodmoon' :) | 12:01 |
| * freemangordon is going to have some food | 12:01 | |
| * Maxdamantus wonders where to get hald-addon-bme-dev | 12:05 | |
| KotCzarny | > freemangordon, would you find some time to recompile image-viewer, rtcom-call-ui, systemui ? and | 12:07 |
| KotCzarny | maybe browser* | 12:07 |
| Maxdamantus | “it is in rx51-bme-replacement/hald-addon-bme repository” | 12:08 |
| * Maxdamantus wonders where that is. | 12:10 | |
| KotCzarny | http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/maemo/maemo.20150602.txt | 12:11 |
| KotCzarny | regarding musl | 12:11 |
| freemangordon | KotCzarny: browser is already recompiled | 12:14 |
| freemangordon | systemui is some 20-30k binary iirc | 12:15 |
| freemangordon | and closed source | 12:15 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, i just took few entries from the top | 12:15 |
| freemangordon | the others are closed source as well | 12:15 |
| KotCzarny | image-viewer is closed? | 12:15 |
| KotCzarny | O.o | 12:15 |
| freemangordon | yes | 12:15 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/hald-addon-bme/source | 12:16 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: I totally forgot about that buildserver | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrn2useTAB | 12:16 |
| Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: does gitorious.org magically work for you, or have you not tried that link? | 12:17 |
| KotCzarny | doc: lrnthatsomepeopledontusesamesoftwareyoudo | 12:17 |
| KotCzarny | seen the archive.org move | 12:17 |
| Maxdamantus | Anyway, I found it. | 12:17 |
| Maxdamantus | the -dev package that is, not hald-addon-bme itself. | 12:17 |
| Maxdamantus | (just need a single header file from that, I think) | 12:18 |
| Maxdamantus | also, fwiw, I use QImageViewer, which I think provides a similar UI to the original one. | 12:18 |
| Maxdamantus | but it seems to handle alternative directories better. | 12:19 |
| Maxdamantus | actually, that's probably not what's invoked by other Maemo things that try to open images. | 12:19 |
| ebzzry | I want to bind Fn+Left to Escape. How should I modify /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51? | 12:20 |
| KotCzarny | i think fn is the third field | 12:21 |
| KotCzarny | just see the example on letter a | 12:22 |
| KotCzarny | and compare which field maps to which combination | 12:22 |
| ebzzry | KotCzarny: ok | 12:22 |
| Maxdamantus | Yay, my mce modification does what I want. | 12:23 |
| Maxdamantus | https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/d607903103bd63667fee | 12:23 |
| KotCzarny | cool | 12:24 |
| KotCzarny | make it configurable somehow? | 12:24 |
| Maxdamantus | Maybe. | 12:25 |
| KotCzarny | but yeah, its kind of wrong place for that originally | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* | 12:25 |
| KotCzarny | popup dialog should disable tklock, not tklock itself | 12:30 |
| KotCzarny | usb popup, that is | 12:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-disable.sh | 12:33 |
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| Maxdamantus | That's not responsible for the dialogue or the display toggle. | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right. and nobody said it was. ke-recv-test at | 12:35 |
| Maxdamantus | ke-recv isn't responsible either. | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right. and nobody said it was. | 12:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mce isn't responsible either | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess poettering and dbus are responsible ;-P | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~xy | 12:40 |
| infobot | i heard xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal | 12:40 |
| Maxdamantus | mce doesn't do it in reaction to anything to do with ke-recv. | 12:45 |
| sixwheeledbeast | ebzzry: re: apps that's a difficult question to answer. Applications come and go, bugs are found maintainers disappear, this is Maemo. It's different from other well maintained distros. | 12:46 |
| ebzzry | sixwheeledbeast: ok. | 12:46 |
| Wizzup | sixwheeledbeast: what other well maintained mobile distros are there out there | 12:47 |
| Maxdamantus | Maybe things would be slightly different if that project to move all the Maemo stuff into normal Debian were maintained. | 12:47 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: do it | 12:47 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 12:47 |
| Wizzup | I think you're just preaching to the choir | 12:48 |
| Maxdamantus | It's hard, and the software is old now. | 12:48 |
| Wizzup | (also, would prefer it to be not just debian) | 12:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | the best advise it's to minimize your "widgetz" and becareful what you install always have a backup | 12:48 |
| Maxdamantus | https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_on_Debian | 12:48 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Linux distros obv. | 12:48 |
| KotCzarny | i think the only distro that can make phone calls on n900 is fremantle | 12:51 |
| Maxdamantus | assuming you want audio. | 12:51 |
| KotCzarny | assume i want | 12:51 |
| Maxdamantus | But what good is a phone call if you're unable to speak? | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | and 99.999% of the people that want phone calls | 12:52 |
| KotCzarny | i can speak, but will they hear me? | 12:52 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: I think that can be fixed/changed. | 12:54 |
| Wizzup | As fmg stated, reverse engineering the -voice module will make a difference | 12:54 |
| Wizzup | and since mainline also supports nokia modem + cmt_speech, with that module it should be possible to "make it work" | 12:54 |
| Wizzup | And like the neo900 project would benefit too | 12:55 |
| Wizzup | s/like/likely/ | 12:55 |
| infobot | Wizzup meant: And likely the neo900 project would benefit too | 12:55 |
| KotCzarny | how so? | 12:55 |
| Wizzup | if you want to run maemo on said device, the core pa part needs to be open iirc | 12:55 |
| Maxdamantus | benefit from the porting of Maemo to Debian. | 12:55 |
| Wizzup | no, that's not what I meant at all | 12:55 |
| KotCzarny | debian == dependency hell | 12:56 |
| Wizzup | I meant that opening the pulse modules is essential to getting sound to work well there iirc (at least for maemo) | 12:56 |
| KotCzarny | you dont want debian on n900 | 12:56 |
| Maxdamantus | Neo900 isn't going to require those pulse modules. | 12:56 |
| * Wizzup wants a second opinion | 12:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "porting of Maemo to Debian" err what? porting demian to linux first? | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | debian even | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo *is* a debian system | 12:58 |
| Maxdamantus | No. It's an apt system. | 12:58 |
| Maxdamantus | It's not compatible with debian. | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's a linux system | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how is maemo not compatible with debian?? | 12:59 |
| Maxdamantus | It has its own system of packages independent from any of the Debian releases. | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have tons of debian tools installed to maemo without a single patch applied to them | 13:00 |
| Wizzup | Please don't argue stupid semantics. Maemo is based on debian. | 13:00 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what's a "system of packages" | 13:01 | |
| Maxdamantus | DocScrutinizer05: you can't smoothly use Debian's repositories for their releases of .. Debian. | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tzz | 13:04 |
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| Maxdamantus | dpkg and apt don't imply Debian. | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty happy about that - otherwise we had damn systemd now | 13:05 |
| Wizzup | +1 | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and of course I can use e.g. devuan's ARM repos to install arbitrary binaries to maemo | 13:06 |
| Maxdamantus | for some reason I have apt and dpkg installed on Gentoo. | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as they don't conflict with libs | 13:07 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: it's in the repos (at least dpkg) | 13:07 |
| Maxdamantus | # epm -qf `which apt` | 13:07 |
| Maxdamantus | java-config-2.1.11-r1 | 13:07 |
| Maxdamantus | O_o | 13:07 |
| Wizzup | app-arch/dpkg | 13:07 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, there's an actual package in portage for dpkg. | 13:08 |
| Maxdamantus | which is often useful. | 13:08 |
| Maxdamantus | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Nov 22 2010 /usr/bin/apt -> run-java-tool | 13:08 |
| Maxdamantus | This `apt` thing is just weird though. | 13:08 |
| Wizzup | ant ... apt ... only one char difference | 13:09 |
| * Maxdamantus is removing java-config | 13:09 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 suggests Angstrom aka openembedded, the "linux for microwave ovens". It already has everything removed, you can start tight away with the more interesting task of *adding* stuff again. Stuff like dedicated users - everything running under root on Angstrom | 13:12 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right, even | 13:12 |
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| Maxdamantus | Apparently Ubuntu is based on an actual release of Debian. | 13:23 |
| Maxdamantus | so it, unlike Maemo, really is a variant of Debian and not just another OS that happens to also use apt/dpkg. | 13:24 |
| Maxdamantus | and debian doesn't really require systemd. | 13:25 |
| Maxdamantus | systemd is just a piece of software that you can choose not to use. The repositories have something like sysvinit still, and possibly upstart. | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo **IS** based on debian!!! | 13:27 |
| Maxdamantus | It's based on the package managers that Debian uses. | 13:27 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: maemo was made by taking a debian as base | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>systemd is just a piece of software that you can choose not to use<< plain wrong, see devuan.org | 13:27 |
| Wizzup | no, you're wrong | 13:27 |
| Wizzup | It actually uses debian | 13:27 |
| Maxdamantus | devuan sounds like a variant of debian. | 13:28 |
| Maxdamantus | in the same sense of Ubuntu. | 13:28 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: step 1) take debian stable step 2) copy repos step 3) add maemo packages step 4) maemo was born | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aha | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | interesting how that sounds | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd | 13:29 |
| infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel, or see https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd | 13:29 |
| KotCzarny | its not debian in the sense debian is a trademark hold by some group | 13:29 |
| Maxdamantus | it's not Debian in an additional sense, which Ubuntu is. | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *plonk* | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | *held | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | and i can have debian tools in slackware/gentoo etc, which doesnt make them debian | 13:31 |
| KotCzarny | debian is a system which is installed from specified official repos packaged by debian team | 13:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Yes, and that's what Ubuntu is too. | 13:32 |
| KotCzarny | ubuntu repackages debian stuff | 13:32 |
| Maxdamantus | but not Maemo. Its base set of packages aren't from Debian. | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BULLSHIT | 13:32 |
| KotCzarny | if you take debian os and package it your own way you cant call it debian | 13:35 |
| KotCzarny | (trademark) | 13:35 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: it really is, though | 13:35 |
| Maxdamantus | apt-get source libc6 | 13:35 |
| Maxdamantus | look at the changelog. | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly who except you cares? when you want debian, usedebian! maybe wen you ask nicely, they even will host maemo on their repo and so fullfill your dream of "porting maemo to debian" | 13:35 |
| Maxdamantus | Does it look like it's gone through the history of Debian maintanance? | 13:36 |
| KotCzarny | <DocScrutinizer05> maemo *is* a debian system | 13:36 |
| Maxdamantus | * Start debianised version glibc-2005q3-1 from CodeCourcery. | 13:36 |
| Maxdamantus | -- Yauheni Kaliuta <yauheni.kaliuta@nokia.com> Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:22:25 +0900 | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, Mr Elop's dog coded that libc6 on a sunday afternoon | 13:36 |
| Maxdamantus | That's the earliest entry. | 13:36 |
| Maxdamantus | it's obviously not part of Debian. | 13:37 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, nokia 770 is pricey than n900/n9 | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing of maemo is part of debian now, since maemo is 8 years old fork of debian | 13:38 |
| Maxdamantus | it's not a fork of Debian. | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:38 |
| Wizzup | KotCzarny: yeah, it's odd. more vintage or something | 13:38 |
| Maxdamantus | otherwise things like libc would have Debian's changelog. | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:38 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: you're really just ... stop, please | 13:39 |
| Wizzup | I don't even know why you guys are arguing about this | 13:39 |
| Wizzup | You both know exactly what the other person means | 13:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 neither | 13:39 | |
| Maxdamantus | How is it part of Debian and not just another system that uses apt/dpkg? | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a bullshit irrelevant sicussion | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:39 |
| Wizzup | Maxdamantus: you shifted the definition to 'part of debian' now | 13:39 |
| Wizzup | ubuntu is not a part of debian, either | 13:39 |
| Maxdamantus | I never shifted the definition. | 13:40 |
| Wizzup | it just merges some stuff from debian | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:40 |
| Wizzup | 12:23 < Maxdamantus> Apparently Ubuntu is based on an actual release of Debian. | 13:40 |
| Wizzup | so was maemo | 13:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Wizzup: it really wasn't. | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:40 |
| Wizzup | okay. whatever. | 13:40 |
| Maxdamantus | Wizzup: look at the changelogs. | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:40 |
| Wizzup | you have your world, I will have mine | 13:40 |
| Wizzup | cheers | 13:40 |
| Maxdamantus | mkdir gaentoo/usr/portage/core/libc.ebuild | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:41 |
| Maxdamantus | oh hey, I just made another distribution of Gentoo. | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:41 |
| Maxdamantus | afk | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/static/e/eb42356042ac11ddbc5f8dc15ddf368c368c_maemo_overview.png | 13:44 |
| KotCzarny | 'related' | 13:45 |
| KotCzarny | not 'included' or 'licensed' | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /topic | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unrelated not licenced non-inclusive comment | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | where's ubuntu's "debian-license"? | 13:48 |
| KotCzarny | ubuntu is not debian | 13:48 |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 13:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, debian is debian | 13:48 |
| KotCzarny | yes | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HOORAY we found the final truth | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the answer to everything | 13:48 |
| KotCzarny | truly | 13:49 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, 770 for ~30usd | 13:49 |
| KotCzarny | wonder if it has any problems | 13:50 |
| sixwheeledbeast | 42? | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: yes | 13:51 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wouldn't be surprised if it was also the crossfoot of KotCzarny | 13:51 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Aprune is not a vegetable, cabbage is a vegetable | 13:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Not wishing to start all that up again.... but even tho you can have debian without systemd lots of things and DE's depend on systemd. So it's difficult to not have it. That's is a major part of the systemd argument. | 13:55 |
| KotCzarny | swb, its simple, use slackware | 13:55 |
| KotCzarny | and if gnome folks sold themselves, stop using gnome | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.zapkolik.com/video/frank-zappa-plastic-people-573213 | 13:55 |
| sixwheeledbeast | meh, I use Ubuntu MATE. Works well and no systemd. | 13:56 |
| KotCzarny | that too | 13:56 |
| KotCzarny | regular users dont care what they use as long they can get their work done | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | irregular users bitch about maemo not being debian | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but.... ONLY DEBIAN is debian! | 13:59 |
| KotCzarny | and doc is slowly turning into old grumpy troll | 13:59 |
| KotCzarny | which is a pity, really | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wrong! I always been | 13:59 |
| KotCzarny | first step of AA program, acknowledge the fact | 14:00 |
| KotCzarny | so, there is some hope for you | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and a way better troll than you newcomer-wannabes | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/05/ubuntu_15_04_review/ | 14:07 |
| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: yep as stock it will install with systemd however, MATE DE doesn't depend on it so I easily switched back to upstart | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, never heard of MATE, translated it to German :-) | 14:12 |
| Maxdamantus | Ubuntu is a derivitive of Debian. I suspect if you `apt-get source libc6` on Ubuntu and look at the changelog, it won't start in 2006 from a guy with an address ending in @canonical.com | 14:13 |
| Maxdamantus | as I pointed out, if you do that on Maemo, you see a few changes, starting in 2006 with a guy whose email address ends in @nokia.com | 14:14 |
| Maxdamantus | because it's not a fork of the Debian package. | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, right, you found the evidence that Nokia and whole community lied to us since 8 or 10 years | 14:16 |
| Maxdamantus | I see the same thing with xorg-server, and I suspect the pattern will continue with all the other core packages that look like they might be from Debian. | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I already disclosed the secret truth to you: [2015-09-27 Sun 12:36:48] <DocScrutinizer05> no, Mr Elop's dog coded that libc6 on a sunday afternoon | 14:17 |
| Maxdamantus | The system isn't based on Debian. It's a fairly separate system that happens to use the same package manager. | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same dog coded xorg | 14:17 |
| Maxdamantus | So Debian == Gentoo | 14:18 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I am sure it's something like apt-get install upstart-sysv, job done | 14:18 |
| sixwheeledbeast | http://mate-desktop.org/ BTW | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then a dude of debian QA came along, noticed the faked changelogs and fixed them with the proper correct "created debianized foobar, dog@nokia.elop.moon | 14:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway pretty funny how virtually any debian tool or app _just_works_ on maemo, after 8 years of betrayal and lies about maemo's true nature | 14:22 |
| Maxdamantus | It doesn't just work. It has to be compiled for Maemo. | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | must be a really unfortunate coincidence, not intended by the dog and Mr Elop | 14:23 |
| Maxdamantus | Chances are you can compile it for pretty much any Linux-based distribution. | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it has to be compiled for ARM | 14:23 |
| Maxdamantus | Then you'd compile it for ARM. | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, you're really boring me | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your argument is about an inexistent issue | 14:24 |
| KotCzarny | wow, debian invented libc6 and other things? | 14:24 |
| Maxdamantus | Debian invented the libc6 package for Debian. | 14:25 |
| Maxdamantus | which includes the glibc source and some patches and build instructions and a changelog. | 14:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | proof or it's a lie | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ Maxdamantus is <reply> Debian invented the libc6 package for Debian | 14:26 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 14:26 |
| Maxdamantus | http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/glibc/glibc_2.19-22.debian.tar.xz | 14:27 |
| Maxdamantus | This one begins with: -- Joel Klecker <espy@debian.org> Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:26:10 -0800 | 14:28 |
| Maxdamantus | http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/libc6 | 14:31 |
| Maxdamantus | ubuntu just provides a diff from the Debian package. | 14:31 |
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| Maxdamantus | afaict | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki libc6 | 14:32 |
| infobot | At https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libc6 (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Use dmy dates|date=July 2013}} {{Redirect-distinguish|glibc|GLib|Gnulib}} {{Infobox software | name = GNU C Library | logo = | author = Roland McGrath | developer = GNU Project | released = {{start date and age|1987}}{{cite web|url=https://lwn.net/Articles/488847/|title=A turning point for GNU libc|last=Corbet|first=Jonathan|date=28 March 2012|publisher=LWN.net}} | status = | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 0.1 – 0.6 Oct 1991 – February 1992 | 14:32 |
| Maxdamantus | Oh no, it's a diff from the eglibc source, but you can see that it's a fork of the debian package because the changelog is mostly filled with @debian.org entries. | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | glibc was initially written mostly by Roland McGrath, working for the Free Software Foundation (FSF) in the 1980s. | 14:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | In the early 1990s, the developers of the Linux kernel forked glibc. Their fork, called "Linux libc", was maintained separately for years and released versions 2 through 5. | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so... ***debian is not linux!!!*** | 14:35 |
| Maxdamantus | So you're saying that Debian is Gentoo? | 14:35 |
| Maxdamantus | because they both use glibc? | 14:36 |
| Maxdamantus | or .. what are you saying? | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, debian is based on a system that just happens to use a lib with the same name: Joel Klecker <espy@debian.org> Sat, 6 Feb 1999 12:26:10 -0800 | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you already said debian invented their glibc err libc6 by themselves | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so evidently it's not linux, it's debian. It only looks like linux | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MEH, this is funny but finally I get tired of it | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 14:38 |
| KotCzarny | hmm | 14:38 |
| KotCzarny | i got another | 14:38 |
| KotCzarny | debian uses linux kernel | 14:38 |
| KotCzarny | so linux kernel is debian | 14:39 |
| Sicelo | congrats on the N9 KotCzarny. i love it UI-wise | 14:39 |
| KotCzarny | but more seriously, devuan is not debian in the sense of naming and being developed by different people | 14:40 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo: thx, gotta still wait for the package to confirm if i was lucky (should get it in a week) | 14:40 |
| Sicelo | battery isn't glued, but you pretty much disassembe whole device to remove it | 14:41 |
| Maxdamantus | but disregarding naming issues, it is Debian in that the libc6 package is either directly from Debian's repositories, or its source package is a fork of that glibc package I linked earlier. | 14:41 |
| Sicelo | which isn't terribly difficult if you have all the toolds | 14:41 |
| Maxdamantus | (and so on for most packages) | 14:42 |
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| KotCzarny | sicelo, good to hear, because most likely its battery could be dying (was unused for at least 4 months) | 14:42 |
| Sicelo | likely not :) the N9 i worked on had been unused for longet than that .. completely empty. but the battery seems to still be strong | 14:44 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 14:44 |
| Sicelo | 64GB or 16? | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | debian been a fake linux written by a bonobo with a fake email addr of Joel Klecker <espy@debian.org> | 14:48 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo, dont know, but i bet on the 16 | 14:48 |
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| Maxdamantus | apparently 64 GB is only available in black, so if that's true it might be narrowed down. | 14:49 |
| Maxdamantus | </guess> | 14:49 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo, still, i'm not gonna cry, as long it works, all i need it for porting oscp | 14:49 |
| KotCzarny | heck, i might even use it as my main phone | 14:50 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: its black | 14:50 |
| Maxdamantus | Meh, not narrowed down then. | 14:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>According to Richard Stallman, the changes that had been made in Linux libc could not be merged back into glibc because the authorship status of that code was unclear and the GNU project is quite strict about recording copyright and authors<< | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course it was unclear ;-P | 14:54 |
| Maxdamantus | Can someone ban this troll? | 14:54 |
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| KotCzarny | lol | 14:58 |
| KotCzarny | maxd: that troll is one of the few most important people for n900 | 14:58 |
| KotCzarny | pity he has bad attitude | 14:59 |
| Maxdamantus | I know. I'm joking about the ban part. | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just can't stand the off topic nonsense and wall of noise in here anymore | 14:59 |
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| KotCzarny | still, sometimes it would be nice to ban him | 14:59 |
| KotCzarny | :) | 14:59 |
| KotCzarny | just for levelling the field | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah. leveling it for walls of null-statements like >i got another< | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >so linux kernel is debian< | 15:00 |
| KotCzarny | (now it gets personal) | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, obviously | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can also get personal | 15:01 |
| Maxdamantus | I'm more amused by >its black< | 15:01 |
| Maxdamantus | it's bald. | 15:01 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: https://github.com/community-ssu/rtcom-accounts-plugin-jabber/commits/master :) | 15:26 |
| freemangordon | Pali: just compile tested, I have no idea how to test it on the device | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | Pali: maybe it is a good idea to enable glib cast checks while testing | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now RE telepathy-ring. Errr | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | Pali: https://github.com/community-ssu/rtcom-accounts-plugin-jabber/blob/master/debian/rules#L15 | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm? | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | what is it? | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | anyway, what is it? | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | telepathy cellmo "plugin" | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui | 15:29 |
| Pali | telepathy-ring is telepathy connection module for csd cellular daemon | 15:29 |
| freemangordon | https://github.com/nemomobile/telepathy-ring | 15:29 |
| freemangordon | isn't that similar? | 15:29 |
| Pali | there are two versions of it: version 1 and version 2 | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, most likely similar | 15:30 |
| Pali | version 2 was open sourced and communicate with ofono | 15:30 |
| Pali | version 1 is closed and communicate with csd/sscd | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so maybe we could actually nuke all that csd et al crap and replace it by ofono (or even fso?) | 15:31 |
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| freemangordon | well, I'd guess that the initial tree is vary similar to what we have in v1.0 | 15:32 |
| freemangordon | *very | 15:32 |
| Pali | but with stripped csd | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, prolly. Then they adaped it to ofono | 15:33 |
| freemangordon | sure, but it will be waaay easier to just RE that part. I guess :) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | define "that part" please | 15:33 |
| Pali | and why do you want to RE telepathy-ring? | 15:33 |
| Pali | what bring us that source code? | 15:33 |
| freemangordon | (15,28,21) DocScrutinizer05: now RE telepathy-ring. Errr | 15:34 |
| freemangordon | :) | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just kidding | 15:34 |
| freemangordon | Pali: BTW, why do you want that jabber code? | 15:34 |
| freemangordon | there is a bug? | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway telepathy-ring would be a rewarding object to look into, and see if we could get it working in a FOSS version | 15:34 |
| Pali | same what with gtalk code | 15:34 |
| Pali | adding support for setting resource priority | 15:34 |
| freemangordon | ok | 15:35 |
| Pali | and other jabber properties | 15:35 |
| freemangordon | ok, cool | 15:35 |
| Pali | and fixing mem leaks :-) if they are too | 15:35 |
| freemangordon | I didn't see any | 15:35 |
| freemangordon | just one buffer on the stack used to g_sprintf a title | 15:35 |
| freemangordon | I replaced it with g_strdup_printf :) | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | replacing all that closed csd etc blobs was a nice plan from beginning. And I think mer actually *did* that on their proto implementation on N900 | 15:36 |
| Pali | yes, ofono is working on N900 | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 15:37 |
| Pali | just it is hard to integrate it into maemo subsystem | 15:37 |
| freemangordon | Pali: BTW, are there more plugins in rtcom-accounts-ui? | 15:37 |
| Pali | specially with Call UI, Messaging UI and other apps | 15:37 |
| freemangordon | besides gtalk and jabber | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so when ofono is working on N900, why can't ofono work under maemo, given we 'update' telepathy-ring? | 15:37 |
| Pali | freemangordon: https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages | 15:37 |
| Pali | will look at it | 15:37 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: just because those closed UI applications use more CSD functions directly | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can you list them? | 15:38 |
| Pali | Calll UI, Messaging UI | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean the functions | 15:38 |
| Pali | maybe also Contacts UI | 15:38 |
| Pali | functions? | 15:38 |
| Pali | do not know exacly | 15:39 |
| Pali | lot of dbus calls | 15:39 |
| Pali | jonwil should know | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dbus calls should be easy | 15:39 |
| Pali | e.g. voice and video calls use something special | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly even calls to mafw | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dbus calls | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least for video | 15:40 |
| Pali | freemangordon: rtcom-accounts-plugin-facebook, rtcom-accounts-plugin-nokiachat, rtcom-accounts-plugin-sip, rtcom-accounts-voip-support | 15:40 |
| Pali | so maybe SIP and VOIP support are relevant | 15:41 |
| Pali | also there is rtcom-abook-skype-plugin | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I nevertheless wonder who's sending those special calls. I'd think it must be telepathy-ring, or some rtcom-stuff | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (rtcom) yes, SIP is very relevant | 15:41 |
| Pali | jonwil once tried to RE Call UI application | 15:41 |
| Pali | so should know more about those internal stuff | 15:41 |
| Pali | ~seen jonwil | 15:41 |
| infobot | jonwil <~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 23h 44m 8s ago, saying: ':)'. | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, call-ui is a monster. Not going to happen | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but regarding dbus, it's just those calls that are *from* blob (e.g. call-ui) to blob (e.g. csd) which give us headache when we switch to ofono - right? | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, or from blob to telepathy-ring | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe those can actually get RE-ed by comparing telepathy-ring v1 against v2 | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dbus logs suck because of those 'anonymous' (numeric) bus clients - we should run whole system under strace, then combine that with a d-bus log of a outbound/inbound call and thus de-anonymize the dbus log, then filter it so we only see the relevant calls which come/go from or to one of the modem subsystems like telepathy-ring or csd | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then do the same on mer, with telepathy-ring_2 and ofono :-) | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err s/mer/sailfish | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or nemo, or... I lost track | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know why BB5 modem audio sucks so much? just because >>lsmod -> omap_ssi 18116 2 ssi_mcsaab_imp,cmt_speech<< the modem has no dedicated audio lines that are used in N900 but rather pipes audio through a 'connection' on a bus with a protocol quite similar to TCP (omap_ssi) | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | luckily that's a quite uncommon design for modem audio | 15:58 |
| ebzzry | I've borked my locales. Now the time shows up as wdgt_va_24h_time. How can I restore it? | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if at least the protocol on that connection over SSI was RTP/RTCP | 16:00 |
| KotCzarny | ebzzry, reflash or copy from working device | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: hmm, you probabaly messed up the locale cache, a 24MB size closed blob file | 16:01 |
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| KotCzarny | you can regen it to some extent tho | 16:02 |
| ebzzry | Is it /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive? | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 23911920 Feb 19 2010 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 16:03 |
| KotCzarny | mine is 1.3M | 16:03 |
| KotCzarny | and apps work (ie. show proper strings) | 16:03 |
| ebzzry | Does anybody have a public copy? | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some do, most don't | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: wait a second | 16:03 |
| KotCzarny | i think you can try putting en_US UTF-8 in /etc/local.gen and running locale-gen script | 16:04 |
| ebzzry | ok | 16:04 |
| KotCzarny | though i dont remember the exact name of the script apparently | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: ETA 3 minutes | 16:05 |
| KotCzarny | but just grab doc's file | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: you can't regenerate the cache, it has a lot of strings that are non-public | 16:06 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizerok | 16:06 |
| KotCzarny | doc, everything i use (and need) has strings | 16:06 |
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| KotCzarny | so, one can regenerate the file (and slim it down at the same time) | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (everything I use) which can't be much after your 360° weed-out | 16:07 |
| KotCzarny | nope, its stock fremantle on that device | 16:07 |
| KotCzarny | dialer, image-viewer, ham | 16:08 |
| KotCzarny | and more | 16:08 |
| KotCzarny | basically everything | 16:08 |
| KotCzarny | name one app i should check | 16:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 0c0677ff23708192bc8e46187d9dedcf /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive | 16:09 |
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| ebzzry | Where can I fetch that? | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/locale/locale-archive | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fetch it then check md5sum | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't check if upload went ok | 16:11 |
| ebzzry | fetching | 16:11 |
| ebzzry | By the way, is kernel-power OK? | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mostly yes | 16:11 |
| ebzzry | I remember before that during "random" times, the clock speed lowers. | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I have a hard time telling anything that's not OK with it | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, just don't mess with clock speed. Unless you do, power kernel should behave just like stock | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang | 16:15 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer05: what is the name of the package? | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | moved it to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/lib/locale/locale-archive | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: package? name of which package? | 16:18 |
| ebzzry | kernel power | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, dunno | 16:18 |
| KotCzarny | ~kp | 16:18 |
| infobot | kp is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287 | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkgs | 16:18 |
| infobot | i heard #maemo pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ | 16:18 |
| KotCzarny | ~kernel-power | 16:18 |
| KotCzarny | most likely kernel-power | 16:18 |
| KotCzarny | read the link tho | 16:19 |
| KotCzarny | (before installing) | 16:19 |
| ebzzry | Ok. Do you guys use u-boot? | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need kernel-power *-flasher and *-modules | 16:20 |
| KotCzarny | Installation: | 16:21 |
| KotCzarny | From Hildon Application Manager install package: Linux kernel for power user | 16:21 |
| KotCzarny | Or via apt-get package: kernel-power-flasher | 16:21 |
| KotCzarny | as i've said, read the link | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for uBoot you also need http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-bootimg/ | 16:22 |
| KotCzarny | U-Boot support (optional): | 16:22 |
| KotCzarny | Or via apt-get packages: u-boot-flasher and kernel-power-bootimg | 16:22 |
| KotCzarny | From Hildon Application Manager install packages: U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1 and Linux kernel for power user (boot image for U-Boot) | 16:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~kernel-power is <reply>see kp | 16:26 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal kp | 16:27 |
| infobot | "#maemo kp" is "http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287" | 16:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: (use uboot) not really, I don't need it | 16:31 |
| Wizzup | ebzzry: I use u-boot | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uBoot is really needed as alternative to: | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~multiboot | 16:35 |
| infobot | hmm... multiboot is http://maemo.org/packages/view/multiboot/, or **DEPRECATED*, see ~maemo-multiboot | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~maemo-multiboot | 16:35 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HOWEVER! Now finally after FIVE years it occurs to me: multiboot is flashing a new kernel "endocrine" - why did nobody implement that into BM already? | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to backup and restore the right kernel together with the system | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I should check how multiboot actually works, i.e. how it manages to flash a new kernel. Prolly it simply invokes the kernel-flasher package via apt-get install ;-) | 16:39 |
| kerio | nanddump/nandwrite? | 16:40 |
| kerio | i mean | 16:40 |
| KotCzarny | hmm, last time i checked dd worked with /dev/mtd (at least for reading) | 16:40 |
| kerio | the way i would do it if i had to do it this way would be to keep all the kernels somewhere else | 16:40 |
| kerio | and flash them | 16:40 |
| kerio | but obviously the solution is to just boot the goddamn kernel you want from uboot | 16:41 |
| kerio | i don't even have a kernel together with uboot anymore | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (nanddump/write) that been also my first approach | 16:43 |
| kerio | i don't see why that wouldn't work | 16:44 |
| kerio | but maybe the flasher is doing something fancier? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (uboot solution) not for BM | 16:44 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: well, the kernel *is* stored somewhere in the backup | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (fancier) dunno, at least it is more "mainstream" and tested ;-) | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is? | 16:44 |
| kerio | no i mean i don't know if it's actually doing the equivalent of nand write | 16:45 |
| kerio | or if it's handling some more cases | 16:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: if you have the -bootimg, it is | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neither do I | 16:45 |
| kerio | it's in /opt/boot | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, but that's only given when you have uBoot | 16:45 |
| KotCzarny | flash kernel then compare mtd contents with the file? | 16:45 |
| KotCzarny | check other mtd partitions for changes? | 16:46 |
| kerio | KotCzarny: more like "break a page in the nand and then try flashing" | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: are the kernel-flasher .deb supposed to live on in some apt cache? | 16:46 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer05: thanks. it's working now. | 16:46 |
| kerio | no | 16:46 |
| kerio | welll | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: :-) yw | 16:46 |
| kerio | nah it gets deleted at some point | 16:46 |
| kerio | it's not reliable | 16:46 |
| kerio | i think HAM does the equivalent of apt-get clean | 16:46 |
| kerio | apt-get clean also does the equivalent of apt-get clean | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 16:47 |
| kerio | flashing the kernel is just the wrong approach tbh | 16:47 |
| kerio | i stopped doing that on my sheevaplug | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | arguable, yes | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but anyway for N900 BM... | 16:47 |
| kerio | ubi; ubifsmount; ubifsload; ubifsload; ubifsumount; bootm | 16:48 |
| kerio | i was going to say "even recording which modules are available would be enough" | 16:48 |
| kerio | but that's just the contents of /lib/modules | 16:48 |
| kerio | so you could check that already, in theory | 16:48 |
| kerio | idk about dumping the kernel | 16:48 |
| kerio | versus "having it" somehow | 16:48 |
| kerio | and flashing it with the approved nokia flasher | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is there a way to add hooks to apt-get install? | 16:49 |
| kerio | what for | 16:50 |
| kerio | the .fiasco image gets deleted after -flasher does its thing | 16:50 |
| kerio | and what about custom kernels and the like? | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a hook like... a script that gets called after each installed package and checks if that installed package was a kernel-flasher. And if yes, save it away to a BM depot instead of waiting for apt to do 'clean' | 16:50 |
| kerio | backupmenu is relying on the partition layout because it has to | 16:50 |
| kerio | Pali: can you nanddump and nandwrite the kernel partition without bad side effects? | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I already did iirc | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you got a fany little (4MB?) initrd partition that's completely unused and looks like made for such experiments | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pali is gone | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh, he's back | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fancy* | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however watch out, nanddump and particularly nandwrite don't know about partitions afaik | 16:53 |
| KotCzarny | kerio, check if you can read/writ /dev/mtd* with dd | 16:54 |
| kerio | they do | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 16:54 |
| kerio | the mtd is divided into separate devices by the kernel | 16:54 |
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| KotCzarny | yes, that way layout is untouched | 16:55 |
| KotCzarny | and you dont have to worry about offsets | 16:55 |
| kerio | based on the partition layout that's either compiled into the kernel or passed via cmdline (mtdparts) | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly you're right, was mtd_debug that doesn't, maybe | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the latter | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's hardcoded to NOLO though | 16:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 16:57 |
| kerio | what kind of performance hit would you take with full disk encryption on the n900's cpu? | 16:58 |
| KotCzarny | depends, but its ~5-10M/s | 16:58 |
| kerio | can you even do full disk encryption with a mtd | 16:58 |
| ebzzry | How does update-sudoers work? | 16:58 |
| KotCzarny | you have to boot somehow something | 16:59 |
| KotCzarny | and nolo doesnt know about encryption | 16:59 |
| kerio | ebzzry: /etc/sudoers can and will be rewritten arbitrarily as you install or remove packages | 16:59 |
| KotCzarny | unless you want to move whole os into emmc | 16:59 |
| kerio | so add a file in /etc/sudoers.d | 16:59 |
| kerio | and run update-sudoers | 16:59 |
| ebzzry | kerio: ok | 16:59 |
| kerio | update-sudoers is basically just a glorified "cat /etc/sudoers.d/* > /etc/sudoers" | 17:00 |
| KotCzarny | that way you can have some base in mtd with mount tools and pivot a t some point | 17:00 |
| kerio | i enabled full disk encryption on my laptop today | 17:01 |
| kerio | it feels native | 17:01 |
| kerio | but that's to be expected i guess | 17:01 |
| KotCzarny | encrypted swap would slow down poor n900 even more | 17:02 |
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| jon_y | kerio: software disk encryption? | 17:03 |
| kerio | yes | 17:03 |
| kerio | but, i mean | 17:04 |
| kerio | libressl's benchmark reports 1.5GB/s of aes-128-gcm on one core | 17:04 |
| jon_y | well, there is that MS thing for laptops using TPM | 17:04 |
| kerio | i wonder if libressl can do xts | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | i wouldnt trust anything m$ish | 17:04 |
| KotCzarny | especially if it has 'security' or 'encryption' in the name | 17:05 |
| KotCzarny | unless all you want is to hide evidence from your wife | 17:05 |
| ebzzry | What is the name of "<" and ">" WRT to rx-51 keyboard file? | 17:05 |
| KotCzarny | maybe its just literal < and > | 17:06 |
| kerio | hah, libressl can do 3.6GB/s of aes-128-xts | 17:06 |
| KotCzarny | kerio: aes-ni ? | 17:06 |
| kerio | no wonder there's pretty much no performance hit | 17:06 |
| jon_y | tpm should be tied to several pounds of thermite | 17:06 |
| kerio | yep | 17:06 |
| kerio | i assume apple's filevault uses similarly performant libraries | 17:07 |
| KotCzarny | it all depends on cpu | 17:07 |
| kerio | i7 something | 17:08 |
| kerio | with aes-ni, yes | 17:08 |
| ebzzry | KotCzarny: got it. less and greater | 17:08 |
| KotCzarny | huh, by literal i meant just a chars < and > | 17:09 |
| KotCzarny | funnily it worked for you | 17:09 |
| Wizzup | 16:04 < kerio> libressl's benchmark reports 1.5GB/s of aes-128-gcm on one core | 17:11 |
| Wizzup | not using aes-ni? | 17:11 |
| kerio | of course it was using aes-ni | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ebzzry: lt and gt I guess | 17:11 |
| KotCzarny | ebzzry: anyway: https://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard | 17:13 |
| ebzzry | thanks | 17:13 |
| kerio | i don't even think libressl compiles in the code that doesn't use aes-ni | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | as in < >: | 17:14 |
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| Wizzup | kerio: uh ... are you saying I can't use libressl on arm? | 17:18 |
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| Wizzup | or on non-mobile intel | 17:19 |
| kerio | i'm saying that my libressl doesn't have any bytes that will do the inner aes rounds | 17:19 |
| Wizzup | (hint: of course they have software implementations, next to hardware engines) | 17:19 |
| kerio | if you want those you have to compile them in | 17:19 |
| kerio | i *think* | 17:19 |
| kerio | because there used to be an envvar to forcibly disable the usage of aes-ni | 17:20 |
| kerio | and it doesn't work anymore | 17:20 |
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| KotCzarny | i would like ssl lib using via aes intructions | 17:30 |
| KotCzarny | or just use kernel ones | 17:30 |
| KotCzarny | *kernel engines | 17:30 |
| KotCzarny | key <LEFT> { type[Group1] = "FOUR_LEVEL", symbols[Group1] = [ Left, less, bracketleft, braceleft ] }; | 17:31 |
| KotCzarny | its less and greater | 17:32 |
| KotCzarny | bracketleft is [ and breaceleft is { | 17:32 |
| KotCzarny | *brace | 17:32 |
| KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard#Switching_Layouts | 17:33 |
| KotCzarny | this one is nice | 17:33 |
| KotCzarny | implementing special keys in hw map | 17:33 |
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| ebzzry | What package provides /usr/bin/keyboard-shortcut? | 17:45 |
| KotCzarny | dpkg -S /usr/bin/keyboard-shortcut | 17:52 |
| ebzzry | thanks | 17:52 |
| ebzzry | When I open the camera, I get "Operation failed", and all I see is black picture. Why? | 17:52 |
| KotCzarny | ebzzry, installed new kernel or camera drivers? | 17:52 |
| KotCzarny | and forgot to reboot? | 17:52 |
| ebzzry | I have rebooted. I just installed kernel-power-flasher. | 17:53 |
| ebzzry | No new camera drivers. | 17:53 |
| KotCzarny | stock camera app? | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ebzzry: uninstall and reinstall all camera apps | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | actually uninstall all camera apps, then reinstall whatever you like to have | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | powerkernel comes with nd cam drivers but those can't get updated as long as multiple packages depend on them - or sth along that line | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask Pali about details | 18:19 |
| ebzzry | I only have the stock camera app, and fcamera | 18:25 |
| ebzzry | fcamera works, but the built-in camera app doesn't. | 18:25 |
| KotCzarny | i think fcamera installs fcam drivers | 18:25 |
| ebzzry | DocScrutinizer05: how can I uninstall all camera apps? | 18:26 |
| KotCzarny | go into application manager? | 18:26 |
| KotCzarny | or if you are happy with fcamera just set it as default action | 18:26 |
| ebzzry | Can the built-in camera app be uninstalled? | 18:26 |
| KotCzarny | for lens-cover-open | 18:26 |
| ebzzry | I want to have both, since the default output of FCamera is too dark. | 18:27 |
| KotCzarny | um, no exposure option in fcamera? | 18:28 |
| KotCzarny | unlikely | 18:28 |
| ebzzry | there is, but the defaults suck compared to the built-in one. | 18:29 |
| KotCzarny | there are few camera apps | 18:29 |
| ebzzry | When I open the RAW file, or the JPEG proof in a RAW processor, the tint is too high. | 18:30 |
| KotCzarny | dont remember which one is the most recommended one | 18:30 |
| ebzzry | Aside from fcamera, what can you guys suggest? | 18:30 |
| ebzzry | there's blessn900 | 18:30 |
| KotCzarny | anyway, bbl | 18:30 |
| ebzzry | Wait, uninstalling camera-ui results in a reboot loop? | 18:31 |
| ebzzry | I thought I have to uninstall all camera apps? | 18:33 |
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| ebzzry | Where's the flasher? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com seems to be down | 18:50 |
| ebzzry | Found it at www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/tools/ | 18:54 |
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| KotCzarny | ~flashing | 19:53 |
| infobot | maemo-flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh | 19:53 |
| KotCzarny | grab it, unpack, run | 19:53 |
| KotCzarny | no need for additional tools (all included) | 19:53 |
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| KotCzarny | also, yes, uninstalling core system packages can result in reboot loop | 19:53 |
| KotCzarny | fremantle is very fragile in that sense | 19:54 |
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| princefakhan | Hi guys! | 20:03 |
| KotCzarny | first rule of irc, you never say 'hello' or 'bye', because you will never leave | 20:03 |
| KotCzarny | kind of hotel california for geeks | 20:04 |
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| princefakhan | Lol. So true. I thought somehow I got away with this addiction. | 20:06 |
| princefakhan | But now I realise that it was only that I had so much more going on with my life past these months. | 20:06 |
| KotCzarny | o.O | 20:06 |
| princefakhan | And lo, I am back again. | 20:07 |
| KotCzarny | got married or something? | 20:07 |
| princefakhan | XD | 20:07 |
| Sicelo | actually there's UGT | 20:07 |
| Sicelo | ~ugt | 20:07 |
| infobot | methinks ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 20:07 |
| princefakhan | No. Passed high school. | 20:07 |
| princefakhan | And now I have no idea what to do. | 20:08 |
| KotCzarny | sicelo, unless your wife is calling | 20:08 |
| princefakhan | I was even thinking of leaving school for good, as it is not doing any benefit to me. | 20:08 |
| KotCzarny | you either continue education or find practical sources of income | 20:08 |
| princefakhan | I was thinking of the later. | 20:09 |
| KotCzarny | word you are thinking of is 'latter' | 20:09 |
| KotCzarny | former and latter | 20:09 |
| princefakhan | Well, something I can learn from home, like coding. | 20:10 |
| princefakhan | Ah! Yes. | 20:10 |
| KotCzarny | keep in mind code shops usually require some paper | 20:10 |
| KotCzarny | unless you are good | 20:10 |
| princefakhan | Mhmm | 20:11 |
| princefakhan | So. What's up in the Maemo community. | 20:11 |
| KotCzarny | same old | 20:12 |
| princefakhan | Any new developments? Last time I checked, our repository were gone for good and we were backing up all we could, and create mirror repos. | 20:13 |
| KotCzarny | ~maemo-repos | 20:13 |
| infobot | i heard maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories | 20:13 |
| princefakhan | :) | 20:14 |
| KotCzarny | 2 at the moment, maybe i should add mine | 20:14 |
| princefakhan | And what's the progress on the rebasing of Maemo on latest Linux kernel. | 20:15 |
| KotCzarny | still no working cmt-speech module | 20:15 |
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| princefakhan | Oh! I think there are plenty more repos too. | 20:15 |
| princefakhan | Oh! We will get around eventually. | 20:16 |
| princefakhan | And there was this Freemantle project? | 20:17 |
| KotCzarny | never heard | 20:17 |
| princefakhan | I should maybe check the forums. :) | 20:17 |
| KotCzarny | yes, that would be good starting point | 20:17 |
| princefakhan | You know, so Maemo could run on other devices. Specifically neo900 | 20:18 |
| princefakhan | :P | 20:18 |
| KotCzarny | you should join #neo900 for that specific platform | 20:18 |
| kerio | i wonder if i can extend a ubifs partition "upwards" | 20:20 |
| KotCzarny | probably yes, but then only upward layer would write things | 20:20 |
| KotCzarny | (overlayfs?) | 20:21 |
| kerio | no no | 20:21 |
| kerio | like | 20:21 |
| kerio | before | 20:21 |
| kerio | in the mtd | 20:21 |
| kerio | as opposed to extending it afterwards | 20:21 |
| kerio | which is a basic feature of pretty much every filesystem | 20:21 |
| KotCzarny | nand is scarce | 20:21 |
| KotCzarny | i would leave it for battery charging/rescue/booting | 20:22 |
| kerio | not on my sheevaplug, i've got a kernel partition i'm no longer using | 20:22 |
| kerio | :> | 20:22 |
| KotCzarny | ahm, not n900 specific | 20:22 |
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| ebzzry | where does harmattan-black live? what repo? | 20:55 |
| KotCzarny | what? | 20:55 |
| ebzzry | the theme | 20:55 |
| KotCzarny | ahm | 20:55 |
| KotCzarny | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/h/harmattan-black/ | 20:56 |
| KotCzarny | looks like extras-devel at least | 20:56 |
| ebzzry | thanks | 20:56 |
| ebzzry | A related question, what packages that are in -devel that you install | 20:56 |
| KotCzarny | oscp | 20:56 |
| KotCzarny | pierogi | 20:56 |
| KotCzarny | rest is from extras or cssu-thumb | 20:56 |
| ebzzry | do you use cssu-thumb exclusively, that is without the other cssu-* repos? | 20:57 |
| KotCzarny | cssu-thumb enables cssu-testing i think | 20:57 |
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| KotCzarny | as it overlays it | 20:57 |
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| ebzzry | upon inspection of the .install file, it does. | 21:00 |
| KotCzarny | if you plan on installing cssu-thumb do it via installer, then click enabler in apps | 21:00 |
| KotCzarny | you shouldnt just add repos | 21:01 |
| ebzzry | ok | 21:01 |
| ebzzry | what is the disadvantage of just adding the repos? | 21:01 |
| KotCzarny | broken system? | 21:01 |
| KotCzarny | for one it requires cssu kernel or power kernel | 21:01 |
| ebzzry | OK | 21:02 |
| KotCzarny | also it replaces some essential packages | 21:02 |
| ebzzry | By the way, are the Nokia repos at http://maemo-repos.com/apt-mirror/ still relevant? | 21:03 |
| KotCzarny | um | 21:03 |
| KotCzarny | never seen that site | 21:03 |
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| ebzzry | Are the Nokia repos still usable? | 21:03 |
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| KotCzarny | ~maemo-repos | 21:04 |
| infobot | hmm... maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories | 21:04 |
| ebzzry | thanks. | 21:05 |
| ebzzry | what stuff are in the nokia repos that are deemed "important"? | 21:05 |
| KotCzarny | nothing you dont already have installed | 21:05 |
| ebzzry | KotCzarny: ok | 21:06 |
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| KotCzarny | but sometimes if you play with os too much you would want to restore some package | 21:07 |
| KotCzarny | (without reflashing etc) | 21:07 |
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