IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2015-09-26

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MaxdamantusAlmost done translating to C.01:28
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ShadowJKehh.. Pali did that kinda for the kernel version of it?01:37
MaxdamantusKernel version as in a userspace program that reads /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/registers ?01:38
Maxdamantusor kernel version as in the module that provides that directory in sysfs?01:39
WizzupThe mainline kernel has that build in yeah01:41
Wizzupmerged and all01:41
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MaxdamantusActually, I don't think the mainline kernel provides as much information.01:42
Maxdamantusand the module in the N900 kernel doesn't provide all that information textually. It just provides a "registers" file that you can interpret from userspace.01:43
Maxdamantusalong with common things like mAh, capacity, etc in separate files.01:43
Maxdamantus(by the mainline kernel not providing that much information, I mean I don't think it provides that "registers" file, so you can't gather all that information)01:44
DocScrutinizer05why do you need that in C?01:48
WizzupMaxdamantus: have you tried mainline?01:49
MaxdamantusWizzup: yes, and iirc, I observed what I described.01:49
MaxdamantusDocScrutinizer05: because it's a waste of CPU creating a sed process to read it.01:49
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: he doesn't like the UNIX philosophyt :)01:50
MaxdamantusActually, I don't think sed is the expensive part in my modified bash part .. it's just the fact that it's doing all the arithmetic in bash.01:51
Maxdamantuswhich involves converting strings to ints and back again.01:51
Maxdamantusand doing normal bash reduction on strings.01:51
DocScrutinizer05I can't find a sed invocation in bq27200.sh01:52
Maxdamantus`user    0m0.234s` vs. `user    0m0.000s`01:52
ShadowJKThe i2cget calls use most of the cpu01:52
ShadowJKor whatever it was named01:53
MaxdamantusYeah, I replaced the i2cget calls with something that reads an array produced by sed.01:53
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05: more like the version you had for freerunner, I think?01:54
Maxdamantuseval "$(sed 's/^/registers[$((/; s/=/))]=/' </sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/registers)"01:54
DocScrutinizer05using the /dump aka /registers sysfs node I guess01:54
Maxdamantus./i2cget (){ echo "${registers[$(($4))]}"; }01:54
MaxdamantusAlso, the C version looks a lot cleaner.01:56
DocScrutinizer05well, whatever pleases you :-)01:56
Maxdamantuseven though most of it was translated with sed.01:56
DocScrutinizer05from a resources POV the I2C queries to the bq27200 schip are eating more energy than the CPU processing this stuff in whatever source language01:59
Maxdamantusunless it's bash.02:01
DocScrutinizer05and probably i2cdump or /sys/*/*/*/(registers|dump) is using less energy than reading the chip's registers one by one02:01
DocScrutinizer05no, even with bash the CPU energy use is way smaller than what's eaten by I2C bus02:02
DocScrutinizer05my guess02:02
DocScrutinizer05CPU can actually do an insane amount of calculations with very low energy02:02
DocScrutinizer05IO via GPIOs otoh eats electric energy by design02:03
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MaxdamantusThe excessive brackets are the reminants of the bash notation.02:19
DocScrutinizer05 ;-)02:27
* Maxdamantus doesn't have anything matched by that `find`02:28
DocScrutinizer05that find is for FreeRunner02:29
DocScrutinizer05could easily get adapted to also work on N900, when bq27xx kernel module loaded (which is only the case with power kernel and BME replacement afaik)02:30
Maxdamantusand that `s3c24xx_pwm.0` presumably has a different set of registers.02:30
DocScrutinizer05no, the registers are all the same, the chip is bq27000 on freeRunner02:30
DocScrutinizer05the structure of /sys/*/dump is slightly different to N900's /sys/*/registers though, I guess02:31
DocScrutinizer05s3c24xx is the SoC of Freerunner02:32
DocScrutinizer05HDQ is the 1wire protocol of BQ2700002:34
DocScrutinizer05other than I2C vs HDQ interface, the Bq27200 and BQ2700 chips are identical02:38
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DocScrutinizer05but your c binary has one huge advantage: can get set suid, so normal unprivileged user may use it as well02:42
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MaxdamantusYou can read the `registers` file from sysfs without root ime.02:43
Maxdamantusmaybe that's why it's not in mainline.02:43
Maxdamantus(again, iirc)02:43
DocScrutinizer05hmm, yeah for that sysfs registers node that's OK. However for normal users we don't have that and you need to revert to i2cget or i2cdump, and that for sure needs root permissions02:44
DocScrutinizer05and no, there's nothing wrong with /sys/*/registers being world readable02:45
Maxdamantuswouldn't reading it constantly use more power than a busy loop?02:45
Maxdamantusunless it's throttled by the kernel module.02:46
Maxdamantusdunno if it does the commands over i2c every time it's read.02:46
DocScrutinizer05shouldn't afaik02:46
DocScrutinizer05but that's err, what's the point?02:47
MaxdamantusI remember looking at the source code for it, can't remember what I found.02:47
Maxdamantusif it uses lots of power issuing commands over i2c, as you said earlier.02:47
DocScrutinizer05still don't get the "wouldn't reading it constantly use more power than a busy loop?"02:47
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Maxdamantus11:02:09 < DocScrutinizer05> no, even with bash the CPU energy use is way smaller than what's eaten by I2C bus02:48
Maxdamantus11:02:56 < DocScrutinizer05> CPU can actually do an insane amount of calculations with very low energy02:48
Maxdamantus11:03:17 < DocScrutinizer05> IO via GPIOs otoh eats electric energy by design02:48
DocScrutinizer05where do I mention a busy loop there?02:48
MaxdamantusYou're saying that the computations involved in handling the results of the i2c reads are going to use less power than the i2c reads themselves.02:49
Maxdamantusso if someone intentionally or accidentally drained power using a busy loop, it wouldn't be as effective as draining the power using a busy i2c reading loop.02:50
DocScrutinizer05err, yes02:50
DocScrutinizer05for whatever reason somebody would want to do that, the mere statement is correct02:51
MaxdamantusRight, and that might be something mainline would be concerned about.02:51
DocScrutinizer05and how?02:51
Maxdamantusbecause the ability to use computing power is a given for userspace.02:52
Maxdamantusas well as power involved in hardware it has access to through /dev etc02:52
Maxdamantusboth of those things can be controlled using already well-undestood means (ulimit, file permissions)02:52
Maxdamantusif you can waste power just by reading files in /sys, it's kind of weird and unexpected.02:52
DocScrutinizer05err, really?02:53
MaxdamantusI imagine so.02:53
Wizzupthat stuff is on-demand02:53
Wizzupit's not all reading-from-kernel-structures02:53
Maxdamantustar -c /sys >/dev/null02:53
Wizzupthat's what /proc is mostly02:53
WizzupMaxdamantus: ... those are nodes02:53
Wizzupwait, no, that's dev.02:53
Maxdamantusdev isn't special.02:54
WizzupPlease don't take what I say out of context02:54
Maxdamantussys and proc are special, and it's up to the implementors of the files.02:54
WizzupMy train of thought was that tax simply takes the nodes from dev, without reading the contents.02:54
Wizzupwas that tar*02:54
Wizzupbut I wrongly applied that to /sys02:54
MaxdamantusAh, right.02:55
DocScrutinizer05what about access to storage, via "while :;do ls -R /;done"? even more effective wasting power on interface to a subsystem than I2C access via /sys02:55
MaxdamantusYes, because /dev isn't special, it just has normal device files, which aren't read by tar.02:55
WizzupI believe that not all info in /sys is "just ready", I would be surprised if it is, at least. Reading said files invokes kernel functions, some of them may do comms02:55
MaxdamantusWizzup: I'd intuitively expect it not to waste too much power doing it.02:56
Wizzupalso, tar on /sys raises a lot of errors, so the time it takes may not be too proper02:56
Maxdamantussince part of the point of /sys is that the user should be able to look through it and guess the interfaces.02:56
Wizzupstat is not the same as read/open, though02:57
Maxdamantusso if there's some information there that's expensive to retrieve, the kernel module providing it should be caching it or something.02:57
DocScrutinizer05guessing is a rather difficult to implement algorithm02:57
DocScrutinizer05I tried it with "find"02:57
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WizzupMaxdamantus: or ... fetch it every x ms? that may waste more time02:57
Wizzupif it's only an on demand value, better let userspace figure that out02:57
Wizzupbut yeah, IDN. I'd have to look at the source.02:58
Wizzupbedtime. :)02:58
MaxdamantusI figured out how to control the status light by looking through /sys02:58
DocScrutinizer05this went far off original topic, anyway02:58
Maxdamantusat least, how to set it to particular colours, not program it.02:58
WizzupMaxdamantus: yes - I found them on mainline as well. wrt programming: depending on what you mean, you can use the led trigger system02:59
Wizzupor alt. just write to the files02:59
Wizzupfor example, you can hookup usb activity to leds using the proper trigger02:59
MaxdamantusWizzup: I mean loading and executing code understood by the LED controller, whatever it's called.02:59
Maxdamantusthe stuff in /etc/mce.ini03:00
Wizzupthere's a program for it as well03:00
DocScrutinizer05there's no reason why a world readable sysfs node particularly for bq27xx should cause any concerns in upstream or anywhere03:00
Wizzup(a gui to edit led patterns)03:00
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: grsec hides most of /sys for non root though03:00
Wizzupbut yeah. generally.03:00
Maxdamantusthat's a program to pulsate the light orange without a break.03:01
DocScrutinizer05meh, it only gets interesting with a program calculating primes ;-)03:01
MaxdamantusIt can't do that. It's not as powerful as perl's regex.03:02
DocScrutinizer05which the LP5523 actually can do03:02
DocScrutinizer05it has 2 or 3 8bit vars and a complete set of math and conditional branching commands03:03
DocScrutinizer05and I seen somebody claiming he wrote a program that calculates primes on LP552303:04
DocScrutinizer05can't find the blog article(?) that wrote about that little hack on LP552303:13
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DocScrutinizer05or i2ctools otoh (actually for i2c dev node) it's pretty clear why root permissions are needed. you actually could nuke your hardware with it03:26
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* Maxdamantus wonders if that's in the power kernel.06:06
DocScrutinizer05well, for sure it's not in the stock maemo kernel06:25
MaxdamantusDoes the stock maemo even come with that module?06:26
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MaxdamantusIt looks like that "registers" entry in sysfs is special to the power kernel, can't find it anywhere in the mainline history.09:42
* Maxdamantus wonders if there's a working git repository for it.09:50
MaxdamantusAh, maybe works but is just really slow.09:51
KotCzarnyum, while you are writing c program, it shouldn't require any additional bash tools09:54
KotCzarnyand you should implement that second part that is helping calibration too09:55
KotCzarnymaybe even calibration mode which would beep the audio device and poweroff09:55
KotCzarny(i was going to write it myself, but no time atm :/09:56
MaxdamantusI've already written it. It doesn't depend on anything.09:56
Maxdamantusjust needs a C compiler and a libc.09:57
KotCzarnydoes it have loop mode too?09:57
KotCzarnymake it configurable (RS shouldnt be constant)09:58
MaxdamantusUnder what circumstances would that change?09:58
KotCzarnyask doc, but his scripts use 22 for that value for example09:59
KotCzarnyit's estimation anyway and relies on battery age i think09:59
MaxdamantusCan always just modify the program and recompile.10:00
KotCzarnyalso, provide -h/--help and some info what it does10:00
MaxdamantusOnly takes a second or two on the device.10:00
KotCzarnyjust saying if you ever wanted upload it to extras10:01
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WizzupPali: didn't make to compile your v4.2-rc2-n900 yet, it errors somewhere when compiling some (default) crypto stuff18:29
WizzupI'll try it again a bit later18:29
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abramelinCan anyone help me with something to do with the n900?19:18
KotCzarnyamazing, samba source is 20M packed, how come file server to need so much code19:18
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.19:18
KotCzarnyabramelin: ^19:18
WizzupKotCzarny: ask microsoft, they wrote the protocol and all the stupid extensions19:18
abramelinOk. I have an N900 again since a long time and I've reflashed it to the latest image, but a few things still seem outdated compared to last time. For example, in the expose thing, I can't switch to windows with q, w, e, etc. anymore, I have to press the touch screen19:20
abramelinAlso, I can't put my device in standby anymore19:20
abramelinAre these really symptoms of an outdated system, or are they separate issues?19:20
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KotCzarnynewer new one can use keys to switch windows19:21
KotCzarnymaybe it was some extension19:22
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KotCzarnyalso, did you remember installing cssu before/19:22
abramelinI don't recall installing anything speciaul for that19:22
abramelinThat might be it19:22
infoboti guess cssu is, or (Community Seamless Software Update)19:22
abramelinYeah, thanks19:24
Vajbu can select program with q,w and e if u have programs running19:27
Vajblike when u press top left and see thumbnails of running programs19:28
Vajband when having keyb visible u can use arrows to switch between desktops19:29
abramelin> Your system has broken packages; check the log19:30
abramelinDoes anyone know how to fix this? I couldn't find any logs in /var/logs19:30
Vajbtry apt to see what errors it gives, but don't do autoremove or dist upgrade19:35
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infobotmaemo-repos is probably
KotCzarnythis also can help you in case of fresh install19:43
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freemangordonPali: :)20:08
freemangordonI hope to finish it tomorrow20:08
freemangordonone small function left, but I have to stop for today20:09
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M4rtinKnice :)21:06
esaym153heh, building perl-5.20.3 in scratchbox :)21:14
esaym153lets see how n810 likes modern perl with Moose and SDK21:15
KotCzarnydont run out of space21:15
esaym153KotCzarny: ./perl-build -j6 --test 5.20.3  /media/mmc2/perl-5.20.3   :)21:16
esaym153going to find out how modern perl with Moose and SDL can run21:17
esaym153don't know if SDL from cpan will even compile on this though :/21:17
esaym153SDLx::App, ect21:17
esaym153and even if it does, it might quickly suck up my entire 40mb of free ram21:18
KotCzarnyesaym153: mkdir /media/mmc2/opt; ln -s /media/mmc2/opt21:25
KotCzarnythen build everyting with --prefix=/opt21:25
KotCzarnyjust watch out not to replace things required to boot21:25
KotCzarnyi meant: ln -s /media/mmc2/opt /opt21:26
KotCzarnymore clean/portable/manageable21:26
KotCzarnyalso, building on poor n8x0 ?21:26
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KotCzarnymm, samba 2.2.12 works nicely on n900 as MyDocs server21:30
KotCzarny1.6M binary, ~2M mem used21:30
KotCzarnynewest samba requires some weird python modules just to build21:31
KotCzarnyok, lets see if i can get anything with smb2 working21:38
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esaym153KotCzarny: not builing on n810, using the scratchbox sdk, building on a different machine, will then copy over21:44
KotCzarnySamba 3.6 added basic support for SMB2.0. ummm-kay21:44
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vectisI have perl-5.22.0 on my N810. Built it on the device itself21:46
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KotCzarnyhmm, nokia n9 for ~20usd22:09
KotCzarnyto buy, or not to buy22:09
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esaym153vectis: what you using perl to do?22:44
KotCzarnysounds like some kind of sickness22:47
vectislol :)22:47
KotCzarny'doctor, i have a case of coldram'22:48
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WizzupKotCzarny: cheap!  @ N922:52
Luke-Jrvectis: I have KDE built on the N810 itself!22:53
KotCzarnywizzup, question is, is it worth getting at all?22:53
Sicelo^/sb end22:53
KotCzarnyluke: logs or it didnt happen22:53
Luke-JrKotCzarny: what logs?22:53
KotCzarnylogs of build process22:53
Luke-JrPortage deletes those immediately22:53
KotCzarny(but im just kidding)22:53
WizzupKotCzarny: good q22:54
Wizzupif it is 20, then still...very cheap22:54
KotCzarnymaybe i'll get it for porting oscp to harmattan22:55
vectisLuke-Jr: how long did kde take to build?22:55
KotCzarnywow, n9 has 1G of ram23:00
KotCzarnynon-removable battery?23:03
MaxdamantusYay, finally recalibrated, though it says 1574 mAh, which I suspect is a bit over.23:04
KotCzarnymaxd: 12.5% max one cycle change for lmd23:05
KotCzarnyit will stabilize in few cycles23:05
MaxdamantusIt seems to have gone way over that.23:06
Luke-Jrvectis: I forget, it was years ago.23:06
Maxdamantusit was something like 1086 just before.23:06
KotCzarnymaxd, still, discharge, recharge, if it stays ~1500 and CI=0, then you have good battery23:08
Maxdamantus1088 → 157423:08
Maxdamantusso where does the 12.5% apply?23:08
KotCzarnyit applies in the opposite way23:09
Maxdamantusdo you mean you have to wait until it changes no more than that before you can assume it's reliable?23:09
vectisLuke-Jr: I tried building qt-4.8.5 recently and the tablet shutdown after 8 days23:09
KotCzarnymaxd: yes, just wait few cycles23:10
KotCzarnyheh, bought that n923:12
KotCzarnyi just hope that battery isnt glued to the phone23:13
Luke-Jrvectis: qtwebkit is a problem23:16
Luke-Jrvectis: I had to do the final link on a real PC with an emulator23:16
vectisLuke-Jr: hmm, I might just try that.23:17
KotCzarnynow i'll need to hunt 770 and n95023:28
KotCzarnyand maybe n81023:28
vectisLuke-Jr: would both setups have to be identical? ie, the same versions of ssl etc?23:28
MaxdamantusYou'd probably just use the same root.23:29
Luke-Jrvectis: dunno, I just rsync'd the entire N810 system and ran it in qemu23:29
MaxdamantusYou wouldn't even need to rsync, just sshfs and build with qemu-user.23:29
Maxdamantusit's like Plan 9's concept of cpu servers.23:31
vectisI didn't realise you could emulate the n810 in qemu, only scratchbox I thought (which is qemu based of course)23:33
kerioyou don't even need to emulate the compiler23:34
MaxdamantusIt's just ARM.23:34
kerioalthough it could be simpler23:34
MaxdamantusYou don't generally need to emulate other hardware-specific things when building software.23:34
MaxdamantusTheoretically, you shouldn't even need to emulate the CPU, but people have been stupid and made "cross-compiling" a special, difficult thing.23:35
MaxdamantusThough you can, as kerio suggested, kind of easily swap in a native C compiler, at least.23:35
Maxdamantusif you're using qemu user.23:35
KotCzarnywell, some make recipes do build some helpers that are used when compiling23:35
kerioyea but you only need to qemu-user those23:36
KotCzarnyand thats what sb does23:36
vectisThanks for the info guys :)23:38
KotCzarnydrat. smbd-3.6.25 is 8.5M23:40
* Maxdamantus got nix to build itself and git and a bunch of other things for N900/Maemo.23:40
Maxdamantusthe main difficulty was downgrading glibc, because Maemo's kernel is too old.23:41
KotCzarnyone positive side of old glibc is that things are smaller a bit23:42
MaxdamantusI don't think that's a positive, unless it's significantly smaller.23:44
MaxdamantusIt's a library that should be shared by pretty much every process.23:44
* Maxdamantus wants a system that uses content-addressed code sharing.23:51
Maxdamantusso the sharing is just an optimisation from the fact that multiple programs happen to execute the same code.23:52
Maxdamantusand you should be able to compile multiple programs with different source trees and have them share code that was coincidentally compiled to the same thing.23:53
keriothat's what ccache does, really23:55
kerioit works at the object level23:56
MaxdamantusBut that doesn't have anything to do with shared libraries does it?23:56

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