IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2015-09-02

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stryngsCan someone tell me, if it's cool to completly remove the python2.5 from the n900?03:09
DocScrutinizer05no, it's not03:10
stryngsCan things not be hacked to rely on just python2.7?03:11
DocScrutinizer05quite a number of apps need it afaik03:11
stryngsYeah, but python, is just python03:11
stryngsand 2.5 sucks.03:11
DocScrutinizer05nfc. try it03:11
stryngsI can chop the debs, not a problem.03:11
stryngsMy thoughts are whether or not it "truly" need 2.503:12
stryngsOr if it's just a Depends: line thing for the .debs03:12
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stryngsI would love to "truly" bring the n900 into at least the year 201503:12
DocScrutinizer05it sucks that can't search for dependencies03:13
stryngsWell, we can reverse it up doc03:14
stryngssome apt-cache magic03:14
stryngsI wonder though03:14
stryngsI wish i had a spare damn n90003:14
stryngsThat's what sucks about experimentation with only 1 n90003:14
DocScrutinizer05hmm, gimme a query03:14
* stryngs boots03:16
stryngsOne sec I'll have u a solution03:16
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buZzwooo people03:18
buZzis this the right place to beg for OS2008 mirrors for N800? :P03:18
buZzi just found one in someones old hw pile03:18
DocScrutinizer05honestly can somebody explain me the serial number like python2.5 2.5.2-11.1maemo3+0m503:20
buZzthe maemo3+0m5 denotes some patchset03:20
buZzpython2.5 is the packagename03:20
buZz2.5.2 is the upstream version03:21
DocScrutinizer05and is python2.5 2.5.2-11.1maemo3+0m5 > python2.5 2.5.4-1maemo6 ? or < ?03:21
buZz11.1 some .. other version? maybe a package version ..03:21
buZz2.5.4 is newer03:21
stryngsDocScrutinizer05: apt-cache rdepends <package>03:21
DocScrutinizer05here you are:
DocScrutinizer05maegirls oh LOL03:24
DocScrutinizer05qlistier ? ;-P03:26
stryngsSaw that03:26
stryngswhat is maegirls =)03:26
DocScrutinizer05maegirls = maemo's approach to pr0n iirc03:27
DocScrutinizer05nah!! >> MaeGirls is a program to monitor women's cycle. This can be helpful for  a number of reasons, both if you are a man or a woman.<<03:29
DocScrutinizer05quite a useful app03:29
DocScrutinizer05buZz: OS2008?03:33
DocScrutinizer05buZz: sth like /home/jr/maemo-mirror/tabletsdev/nokia_770/OS2008_Hacker_Edition ?03:35
DocScrutinizer05ooh N80003:35
DocScrutinizer05sth like /home/jr/maemo-mirror/tabletsdev/nokia_N800/downloads/RX-34_2008SE_1.2007.44-4_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ?03:36
DocScrutinizer05or /home/jr/maemo-mirror/tabletsdev/nokia_N800/downloads/RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin03:37
buZzi think i just stumbled upon a mirror :P03:37
buZzbut tnx a lot :)03:37
* buZz wonders what 'hacker edition' is :P03:37
infobotcssu is probably, or (Community Seamless Software Update)03:38
DocScrutinizer05actually no clue really. maybe start here:
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buZzits all a bit new, but fun, i'll get by :)03:42
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DocScrutinizer05you want to s/forums.internettablettalk/
DocScrutinizer05e.g instead of 3) remake bootmenu http://www.forums.internettablettalk...howthread.php? t=2277103:49
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buZzawesome :)04:24
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stryngsDocScrutinizer05: Who "owns" maemo.com05:52 rather05:52
* stryngs thinks Maemo as a whole, needs a reconfiguration.05:54
* stryngs thinks Maemo, could be made, better.05:54
* stryngs thinks #maemo perhaps, might be interested in his crazy thoughts05:55
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buZzwish i had some SD cards here :P11:14
buZzof course, all my cards are in storage11:15
buZzgrlmb :)11:15
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Guest63813hello, does anyone know a good dicitonary or translation app for the n900 ? - I already tried gTranslate but it doesn't work ...11:46
Ras_OlderWhat do you mean exactly by it doesn't work? I just opened it with my device and seems to be in working order here.11:47
KotCzarnyyou only want dict?11:48
KotCzarnyyou may try kcxlator11:48
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axonsorry, I am guest6381311:50
axonI made an error at the login11:50
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axonKotCzarny: I installed it. But I don't really understand it ... i tipped: f.xv2 hello -> I expected some output ... additionally I have no clue for which langugage it is for12:11
KotCzarnyand its a thesaurus12:12
KotCzarnyie. dictionary12:12
axonRas_Older: It doesn't work means: Everytime I put in a word it says " please enter valid text"12:12
KotCzarnyaxon: if you start it without params it will go into interactive mode12:13
KotCzarnyotherwise it should just print out word definition into terminal12:13
axonKotCzarny: yes, I tried but than I have a lot of "???" signs everytiem I put in a word12:14
axonI only need a german bulgarian translation tool12:14
KotCzarnydont have12:14
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KotCzarnyi have english-german tho12:15
axonwho needs that?12:15
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axonI mean there are a lot of "word-lists" in THE famous internet ... BUT I have trouble to put in the kyrillic letters via my english keyboard layout (google translator has a nice way to work around that by interpreting latincharacters as cyrillic if they sound similar ...) and additionally I don't know a tool to load and browse those lists ...12:17
KotCzarnyaxon, use on screen keyboard?12:18
axongood idea -12:19
axonperhaps I am going to write a small application to browse wordlists ...12:19
axondoes anyone has any idea about the gtranslate bug? - it doesn't seem to be new [] ...12:20
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KotCzarnygoogle changes its interface often12:22
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axon@KotCzarny: I found something:12:29
axon>>> import goslate12:29
axon>>> gs=goslate.Goslate()12:29
axon>>> print gs.translate("hello world","bg")12:29
axonЗдравей Свят12:29
axonso there is a good python implementation for google translate12:29
axonnow I will try to make it run on my n90012:30
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DocScrutinizer05some guys beaten it from version 1.4+qt3 to 1.9+Qt515:34
DocScrutinizer05also see "Deutsche Uebersetzung:"15:34
DocScrutinizer05(plus a lot of other stuff not mentioned there)15:34
DocScrutinizer05(C)2008 ;-P15:37
* DocScrutinizer05 feels a tiny bit flattered that this software *still* gets maintained15:38
kerioopensource finds a way15:38
DocScrutinizer05in my book still the greatest SIP softphone ever15:38
DocScrutinizer05well, NOW it should really be a nobrainer porting it to maemo, eh?15:39
DocScrutinizer05I mean, Qt5, c'mon15:39
zGrrmoin :)15:39
DocScrutinizer05moin :)15:39
DocScrutinizer05just the "fake" project website ( annoys me15:41
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axonhello has anyone experience with installing new python version on the n900?15:43
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DocScrutinizer05LOL again @
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DocScrutinizer05THAT is a decent audio settings implementation (note "other device")
DocScrutinizer05"other device" means you can provide your own ALSA device description to your liking15:56
DocScrutinizer05btw audio works OOTB on my PA-infested system here15:57
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DocScrutinizer05(port to maemo) maybe basing the 1.9 Qt5 port on might help16:01
DocScrutinizer05axon:  search for "python"16:02
DocScrutinizer05python 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3 all there16:03
DocScrutinizer053.2, 3.416:03
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DocScrutinizer05("other device"  --  courtesy DocScrutinizer05 ;D )16:05
erlehmanncan anyone here post me a fixed sources.list so i do not have to type everything out?16:09
erlehmannwith the repos in there?16:10
erlehmannthe application catalog links there do not work for me for some reason16:10
axondanke nils16:10
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axonDocScrutinizer05: I found python2.7 as you said. - how do I add "Fremantle Extras-devel free armel" to my repositories?16:25
Ras_OlderOh damn sorry that one :D16:27
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infobotwell, extras-devel is
axonI added the new catalogues -> but I don't find the python2.7 packacke - eventhough I see lots of new packages ...16:39
axonand according to it should be in there ...16:39
DocScrutinizer05maybe not in group "user"16:43
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DocScrutinizer05in HAM menu click 'settings', checkmark "show all packages"16:48
axonI dont have such a menu in my application manager : only refresh, log and application catalogues ...16:50
DocScrutinizer05get a decent HAM, see red-pill-mode too maybe16:51
DocScrutinizer05install CSSU16:51
infobotit has been said that cssu is, or (Community Seamless Software Update)16:51
infobotrumour has it, speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM
* DocScrutinizer05 renames speedyham to lightningham16:52
DocScrutinizer05axon: for python etc you also can use apt-get16:53
DocScrutinizer05actually that's the preferred method16:53
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DocScrutinizer05just _never_ do apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade16:54
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axonfor some reason it doesn't use the same repositories as the application manager16:55
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axonI can finally see python2.7 vis apt-cache - but when i try to install it I get a "unmet dependecies" error : mime-support is not installable ...17:05
DocScrutinizer05yes, application manager using his own (additional) settings on top of usual apt lists17:15
DocScrutinizer05well, check which mime-support it needs and find it17:16
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axonDocScrutinizer05: I tried my best, but it's a little hard, that I have to face unmet dependencies  ... does it mean I am doing it wrong?17:17
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infoboti heard maemo-repos is
KotCzarnyerlehmann: ^17:19
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erlehmannaxon you need to update the sources list17:20
erlehmanndid you delete the nokia repositories?17:21
axonyou mean ! apt-get update ?17:21
axonI did that17:21
erlehmannaxon your sources list probably did include entries17:21
erlehmannprefix them with “”17:22
erlehmannso the lines are17:22
erlehmanndeb ./17:22
erlehmanndeb ./17:22
erlehmannthen apt-get update17:22
erlehmannand look out if there are any errors17:23
erlehmannthere is /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ in which there are more files17:23
erlehmannformat is like debian17:23
axonI know17:23
axonthat's where I would copy what you just send me17:24
axonmy sources list looks like this:17:24
axondeb fremantle free non-free17:24
axondeb fremantle free non-free17:24
axondeb fremantle-1.3 free non-free17:24
axondeb fremantle free non-free17:24
axonand now:17:25
axonthe new one:17:25
axondeb fremantle free non-free17:25
axondeb fremantle free non-free17:25
axondeb fremantle-1.3 free non-free17:25
axondeb fremantle free non-free17:25
axondeb ./17:25
axondeb ./17:25
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erlehmannaxon do apt-get update17:27
erlehmannand then try to install again17:27
erlehmannand see if it works17:27
axonI do17:27
axonit right now17:27
axonhe says keyexpired17:28
erlehmannthat is probably microsofts fault17:30
axonneverless he installed mime-support and is currently installing python2.717:30
axonDanke Nils!17:30
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Jack64hey guys, I'm trying to get access to raw data from the accelerometer on the N900, is there a C/C++ lib or something I can use ?17:49
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axonThanks to everybody who supported me: Just to let you know: It seems to me that the easiest way to access the easiest way to use google_translate for a dictionary is the goslate python library17:53
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axonI even managed it to write a little script which is converting between cyrllic and latin letters ...18:04
erlehmannaxon publish it18:06
axonerlehmann, I have the problem that i don't use the exact right transcription for some letters ... for example the transcription "з" is "z" and since it sounds like "s" i putted it on s ...18:09
axonand there are many of this little things18:09
axonbut I promise you I do it as soon as I finished my thesis  ...18:10
axonuntil than I just use it as a quick tool to learn and to look up some words18:10
axonit's effective for me - but might be annoying for somebody who is used to the real system ...18:11
erlehmannaxon there are transliteration libraries18:11
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axonerlehmann, yes I knew them already - I checked them again - they are ok. Once I have time I am going to integrate them into my program ...18:21
erlehmannKotCzarny it can do transliteration?18:23
erlehmann              If the string //TRANSLIT is appended to to-encoding,  characters18:23
erlehmann              being  converted  are  transliterated  when needed and possible.18:23
KotCzarnywas that a question?18:23
erlehmannKotCzarny i answered it myself!18:24
erlehmann; echo Æther Kloß Tütenwein Ⓐ ① →| iconv -f UTF-8 -t ASCII//TRANSLIT18:27
erlehmannAEther Kloss Tuetenwein (A) (1) ->18:27
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bencohJack64: maybe18:50
KotCzarnythere is accelerometer app in repos18:51
KotCzarnycheck the source18:51
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Jack64bencoh: I found too18:54
Jack64it's not calibrated though, I have to offset the values in my code manually18:55
Jack64and I think it's not sensitive enough to measure what I want18:55
KotCzarnyalso, you can try app with the name 'level'18:58
KotCzarnyand the one i was talking earlier is named 'accdisplay'18:58
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Jack64KotCzarny: thanks. It's prolly not gonna work for my purposes tho18:59
* Jack64 needs a more sensitive accelerometer 19:00
KotCzarnycheck the accdisplay one19:00
* Jack64 checks19:01
bencohwhat are you trying to do?19:04
KotCzarnyblow stuff up?19:05
Jack64trying to see if this is feasible on the N900's hardware19:05
Jack64since coding for it is pretty straightforward19:06
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KotCzarnyn900 is held differently19:06
KotCzarnya bit19:06
Jack64I know, but this depends on the phone being set on the table next to the keyboard19:07
Jack64and "feels" keystrokes19:07
Jack64then guesses where the user hit the key19:07
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KotCzarnythey yeah, could be too thick19:07
bencohI doubt it'd work, but ...19:07
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Jack64yea preliminary testing for variation didn't bode well19:08
Jack64might be too thick yes19:08
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WizzupPali: trying to boot mainline on n900, got a uImage, and set the right bootmenu20:09
WizzupIt boots, but fails to find the root20:09
WizzupI am aware that the emmc and sd card are swapped in the sense that mmcblk0 is the sd card20:10
KotCzarnywizzup, wasnt it an issue even with maemo kernel that it doesnt find mmc to boot and just needs initrd?20:11
WizzupI do not know - is that the case?20:11
WizzupThat would explain a lot20:11
KotCzarnydont know if its timing issue or some trigger not happening in kernel time20:11
WizzupI did set rootdelay=1020:12
WizzupBut it sees the card long before that20:12
WizzupMaybe I should try with an initrd then20:12
KotCzarnypartly related but different issue20:14
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KotCzarnyor maybe the same20:15
WizzupSo with a simple busybox initrd you think mounting mmc will work?20:16
WizzupI mean, the patch seems to hint at larger problems20:16
KotCzarnydisclaimer: i dont have second n900 to fool around (its my main phone)20:16
WizzupIt is useful feedback already20:16
WizzupPali: the root is on the u-sdcard20:20
Wizzupext4 is a module20:23
WizzupLet's see what happens if it is not a module...20:23
DocScrutinizer05((<axon> deb fremantle free non-free)) I highly doubt this is supposed to be there20:24
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WizzupNope - with ext4 enabled in the kernel is still cannot mount the rootfs20:37
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KotCzarnywizzup, make basic initrd then just investigate20:48
WizzupYes - I will20:49
DocScrutinizer51Wizzup: then you prolly want diagnostic output from kernel20:49
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KotCzarnyusb eth + telnetd20:49
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DocScrutinizer51for kernel debug?20:57
DocScrutinizer51maybe kernel knows about sth like console=ttyUSB though I doubt it20:58
DocScrutinizer51anyway the kernel should know framebuffer. KP does20:59
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DocScrutinizer51maemo kernel has no initrd, maybe you should be able to make recent kernel to boot straight from bzimage into final root as well?21:02
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Wizzupok, I can get to a shell with an uInitrd + watchdog modules...21:21
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Wizzupbut cannot type / or any number :<21:23
KotCzarnyand thats why usb-eth + telnetd is nice21:23
KotCzarnyconnect usb keyboard?21:24
Wizzupis it in hostmode atm?21:24
KotCzarnyif not, add some echo > /sys/... to initrd21:25
Wizzupdo you know how to toggle it?21:25
Wizzupwill google if not21:25
Wizzupjust wanted to quickly see if I Can do it21:25
KotCzarnyjust connect keyboard and see21:26
KotCzarnyit's the quickest test21:26
Wizzup(didn't work)21:26
KotCzarnyno magic commands21:26
infobothmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or, or see ~hostmode21:26
Wizzup(this is mainline kernel btw)21:26
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Wizzupalright. will continue tomorrow21:27
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infobot[hostmode], or, or see ~hostmode-powered21:30
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
DocScrutinizer51KotCzarny: hostmode will not work in stock kernel and for sure not during kernel init21:37
DocScrutinizer51and kernel also has no telnetd built in, and even worse it couldn't start it when it fails to mount rootfs21:39
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KotCzarnydoc, i suggested telnetd because he used busybox in initrd anyway21:40
DocScrutinizer51please check kernel cmdline parameters, particularly 'conx21:40
KotCzarnyalso, was the usbhost mode refused by kernel people?21:40
KotCzarnyit would be quite nice feature in mainline21:41
DocScrutinizer51yes, hostmode on N900 is a *terrible* hack. I know since I invented it21:42
DocScrutinizer51I would argue when any fools would want to get it into mainline21:42
KotCzarnyno way to tidy it ?21:43
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DocScrutinizer51I made that wok despite 'everybody else' said it can't get done21:44
KotCzarnycan it be made into universal patch?21:44
DocScrutinizer51N900 hw fsckd up21:44
KotCzarnylinux kernel has some hw quirks fixups anyway21:45
DocScrutinizer51h-e-n is a hack and a botch and will always be21:45
DocScrutinizer51nobody wants or needs it in mainline21:45
KotCzarnybut you are using it without adverse efect to the device21:46
DocScrutinizer51yes, except it basically messes up USB completely21:47
DocScrutinizer51and doesn't work without user interaction21:47
DocScrutinizer51it's basically a USB hostmode *emulation*21:48
DocScrutinizer51and a pretty poor one too21:48
KotCzarnybut works and is good enough?21:48
DocScrutinizer51it's as good as it gets on defect-by-design hardware21:49
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DocScrutinizer51nokia said "it can't get done", I answered "and nevertheless I'll do it"21:50
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DocScrutinizer51nokia was right21:50
kerioyeah but21:50
kerioit works kinda fine21:50
kerioit works perfectly fine if you add a usb hub21:51
DocScrutinizer51nest I could come up with was this botch that needs manual activation ans speed selection21:51
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DocScrutinizer51and a massively patched kernel21:52
DocScrutinizer51no matter it works 'just fine' in everyday usage, it's a dirty sick hack :)21:54
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KotCzarnyeverything is a hack21:55
DocScrutinizer51kerio: indeed with a hub it works almost perfect, since the hub provides power and most importantlu does speed conversion between USB2, 1.1, 1.021:55
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DocScrutinizer51ooh btw ~4 years after project H-E-N finish it's prolly about time to share all those donations between all invoved developers :)21:58
DocScrutinizer51let's see, that must have been ~200 bucks, divided between 15 people involved...21:59
KotCzarnyfew beers at the next maemo party?21:59
DocScrutinizer51meh, I'll pay the next drink :D21:59
DocScrutinizer51btw start of next week I'll order the N900 needed for Neo900 complete devices. So still a few days left to place your preorder if you're intereted to be one of those who definitely get a complete device incl case and all22:04
DocScrutinizer51PP supposed to be working again at Friday the latest, so there's a whole weekend still22:05
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norlyDocScrutinizer51: Any estimation on how many people ordered a Neo900 so far?22:39
DocScrutinizer51200 even22:41
DocScrutinizer51maybe 222 ;)22:41
KotCzarnyprice is a killer22:41
DocScrutinizer51180 complete, 110 NeoN22:42
DocScrutinizer51(price) well, people are paying a 700 bucks for a cheesy mainstream mass market product like iPhone22:44
DocScrutinizer51even N900 was around 600 bucks new IIRC22:45
KotCzarnynot me22:45
KotCzarnyand not most geeks22:45
DocScrutinizer51meanwhile Euro lost value22:45
KotCzarnypeople paying for iphones are usually technology illiterate22:46
DocScrutinizer51so what?22:46
KotCzarnyso most money stuffed people dont bother with hacking22:46
KotCzarnyand hackers are hackers because they have to get by with limited resources22:46
DocScrutinizer51you say geeks want cheap crappy stuff?22:46
KotCzarnyi say geeks usually have limited resources22:47
DocScrutinizer51I can't help that22:47
KotCzarnyme neither22:47
KotCzarnyand thats why we have iphones22:47
DocScrutinizer51I dont22:47
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KotCzarnyme neither22:47
DocScrutinizer51whatever. furile discussion. I'd love to sell that device cheaper, alas I can"t22:48
DocScrutinizer51users asked for 1GB RAM - kajink another 50 bucks plus. Asked for 64GB eMMC - kajink 40 buck plus22:50
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DocScrutinizer51NFC: another 50 bucks22:51
bencohthat's not the most expensive part anyway, iirc22:51
KotCzarnyi wonder if it could be made as a modular device22:51
DocScrutinizer51dual SIM 20 bucks22:52
DocScrutinizer51no, modular is a hoax22:52
KotCzarnythere was that one project22:52
* DocScrutinizer51 outright refuses to discuss ara a billionth time22:53
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KotCzarnyno, not ara22:53
DocScrutinizer51ara == bloks22:55
KotCzarnyi knew it before it became ara22:55
KotCzarnydidnt follow22:55
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DocScrutinizer05bencoh: the most expensive part clearly is the modem22:59
DocScrutinizer05it's ~100 bucks22:59
DocScrutinizer05R&D _not_ included23:00
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DocScrutinizer05R&D is about finding and fixing/handling stuff like ^^^23:08
DocScrutinizer05which takes time, and time is money23:08
bencohyeah I was referring to R&D (as the "most expensive part" ;)23:09
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DocScrutinizer05it's really 'fun'¡ to plan with bleeding-edge components that are not even released yet and whose specs change inadvertently - however we need to plan with those bleeding edge components or we will probably not be able to source them at time of production. That's EE daily WTF you need to deal with when you do hw design23:12
DocScrutinizer05see wg7351 which we possibly might need to drop and replace it with a wiLink8 series module since it's already starting to get phased out23:14
DocScrutinizer05WiLink8 is nice, except for the drivers etc23:15
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DocScrutinizer05once there are FOSS drivers, the hardware is obsolete. It's really a nasty game23:15
DocScrutinizer05*if* we were a veritable player in that game, like we'd plan to source a few 100k of chips, we could do better23:16
DocScrutinizer05for a nobody like Neo900 you have to be grateful when you get answers to your emails23:17
DocScrutinizer05even for answers like "MOQ:2000; lead time: 20 weeks"23:18
DocScrutinizer05and such answer still isn't a binding offer yet. When you want to get the stuff, you as well could get a terse email "sorry Sir, we meant 'MOQ:20000, lead time: 20 months'. Our mistake, sorry for the inconvenience"23:21
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DocScrutinizer05that's what risk parts sourcing and securing is all about23:22
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DocScrutinizer05btw can you read stuff like or does it need a log-in to even read it?23:24
KotCzarnyit opened fine23:24
DocScrutinizer05:-) ta23:24
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