IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2015-07-20

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KotCzarnyhmm, does anyone actually tested battery life with and without smartreflex?00:52
freemangordonKotCzarny: yes, it was vi, back then00:54
KotCzarnyand is it worth? i'm using it for some time, yet i don't see anything noticeable00:55
KotCzarny(at least according to battery-eye)00:55
KotCzarnyon a positive note it's stable, didn't have any unexpected reboots00:55
freemangordonlet me try to find the thread00:56
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freemangordonhmm, seems the thread has disappeared :(01:02
KotCzarnyi only see vi_ commenting on smartreflex in this thread
freemangordonthe  last post from vi_ on TMO is from   06-16-1201:03
freemangordonKotCzarny: no, it was a beautiful thread, with graphics, for different frequencies and loads01:03
freemangordonunfortunately it seems to be archived/deleted01:04
freemangordonKotCzarny: anyway, I remember something like 8% lower consumption for (500? 600?) MHz01:09
KotCzarnyuhum, i set mine to 500 too01:09
freemangordonbut anyway SR is highly device dependent, so your mileage may vary01:09
KotCzarnyand 8% goes well into observable margin01:09
KotCzarnywould be nice to have second n900 just for testing01:10
freemangordonyou can check what is the voltage set by SR and compare it without SR01:10
freemangordonthat'll give you an idea01:10
freemangordonabout what saving (if any) to expect01:10
KotCzarnynah, i believe it's working, but i wanted to know how much in battery time it can gain01:11
freemangordonwell, you know such a question has no answer :) . usage pattern, you know01:11
KotCzarnythat's why second n900 :)01:11
KotCzarnythis one is my main phone01:12
freemangordonKotCzarny: lock your frequency at 500 (for example), then "cat /sys/power/sr_vdd1_voltage"01:13
freemangordonthen compare it with voltage for 500 without SR01:14
freemangordonit is in units of .125V, (iirc)01:14
freemangordonhmm, it is 32 here01:15
freemangordonare you sure you have SR enabled?01:15
KotCzarny1 in /sys/power/sr_vdd[12]_autocomp  ?01:16
KotCzarnythen yes01:16
KotCzarnywithout sr its 3901:16
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freemangordonwell, then you have a "bad" device which doesn't gain much from SR01:17
freemangordonand what about 250MHz?01:17
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freemangordonmine is at 23 with SR01:18
KotCzarny24 with, 25 without01:18
KotCzarnywell, oscillating between 24 and 2501:18
freemangordonyeah, not much of a difference01:19
freemangordonLinux Nokia-N900 #1 PREEMPT Wed Dec 10 13:52:39 UTC 2014 armv7l unknown01:19
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freemangordonKotCzarny: have you ever tried to undervolt?01:20
KotCzarnynever, apart from enabling sr01:21
KotCzarnybtw. vdd2 value differs a bit more with/wo sr01:21
freemangordonyou;d better not enable SR for vdd201:22
bencohI wonder what it does when usb is plugged in ... it says vdd1==35, vdd2==3701:22
freemangordonbencoh: locks the freq at 600 (iirc)01:22
KotCzarnyfreemangordon: vdd2 is bad in a way it can crash the device or silent corruption?01:23
bencoh500 apparently, but yeah, it might be just that01:23
KotCzarnyso far i didn't notice anything01:23
bencohwhat's wrong with SR on vdd2 ?01:23
freemangordonbad in a way that SR calibration values are wrong (as are those for vdd1), but I didn;t make a patch to fix them (which I did for vdd1)01:24
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freemangordonand I can only guess what can an undervolted bus bring, be it crash or silent corruption01:26
KotCzarnyprint a warning in dmesg01:26
KotCzarnyjust for now01:26
freemangordonI think there is01:26
freemangordoncould be, it was a while I last played with it :)01:27
bencohfreemangordon: too high or too low ?01:28
KotCzarnyanyway, so far my device was stable, even with vdd2, but as you've said it's not undervolting much01:28
freemangordontoo low01:28
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freemangordonbencoh: hmm, wait01:28
freemangordonit is a bit more complicated01:29
freemangordonfor vdd1 there a 5 efuse values01:29
freemangordonand 3 for vdd201:29
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freemangordonthe last 3 ( for 500, 550 and 600) for vdd1 are same on all devices I've ever checked01:30
freemangordonthe same goes for 3rd value for vdd201:30
KotCzarny /sys/power/efuse_vdd1 has 10 lines here01:31
freemangordonwhile 1st and second values are too high for all the devices I've checked01:31
freemangordonKotCzarny: yes, thosa are for frequencies 125-80501:32
freemangordonbencoh: so, we have 2 values that are always higher than needed and 3 which are too high or too low for a particular device01:33
freemangordonthe same goes for vdd201:33
freemangordonwe have 2 values that are too high and 1 which could be high or low01:33
freemangordonKotCzarny: your 3rd value for vdd2 is 00aac695, right?01:34
freemangordonbencoh: ^^^ you have the same, right?01:34
bencohfreemangordon: and ... how do we know it's too high or too low ? checking against some doc ?01:35
KotCzarny009aaedf 00aafda7 00aac69501:35
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freemangordonbencoh: there is no way you can know01:35
freemangordonthose are supposed to be parameters, factory caliibrated for a particular SoC01:36
bencohI mean ... how did you check ?01:36
freemangordonI didn;t01:36
freemangordonI took the first pair only01:36
bencoh"we have 2 values that are too high and 1 which could be high or low" compared to what ? empiric values ?01:37
freemangordonfor vdd1 that is. The other values are extrapolated01:37
bencohI have 009ac0eb 009a8bb0 00aac695 for vdd201:37
freemangordonbencoh: compared to what the device needs to be stable, without consuming unnecessary power01:37
freemangordonyep, again 00aac695 ;)01:38
KotCzarnyfactory failsafe of some kind?01:38
freemangordonno idea what it is, but it is wrong01:38
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bencohI'll read the omap3 documentation, some day 0:)01:40
bencoh(not saying this just regarding this specific point ... :)01:41
freemangordonKotCzarny: the idea is - TI measures the device performance at different OPPs, loads and temperatures, then programs eFuses with SoC specific values. Those values are used by the kernel to program SR controller, which in turns controls TWL's voltage regulators.01:42
freemangordon*int turn01:42
freemangordondammit, too sleepy :)01:42
KotCzarnypity i have bad device01:42
KotCzarnystill, works as it is01:43
KotCzarnyunproductive smartreflex doesn't consume any overhead energy?01:43
freemangordonyeah, your device seems to be on the bad end of the spectrum01:43
freemangordonafaik no01:43
KotCzarnythanks for the info :)01:44
KotCzarnygoing to leave it enabled anyway01:44
freemangordonKotCzarny: keep in mind that even 0.25V down make some difference01:44
KotCzarnyheh, how about a rescueos based kernel with testing script? :)01:45
freemangordontesting what?01:45
KotCzarnyyou've said something about locking voltages01:45
KotCzarnyor i'm sleepy too and read more that there was said01:46
freemangordonI guess01:46
KotCzarnyah, i see, you have asked me about undervolting01:46
freemangordonlocking was to give you an idea how does SR perform on your device01:46
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freemangordonto compare vdd1 voltage with nd without SR01:47
KotCzarnyalso that explains why i didnt notice any battery life improvements01:51
KotCzarnyin 125mhz vdd1 is 2301:52
KotCzarnyand vdd2 is 3001:54
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KotCzarnyhe he01:58
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KotCzarnyso actually sr should make chips more stable01:59
KotCzarnyassuming it's working right01:59
KotCzarnyand for some chips it could make battery life shorter02:00
KotCzarnywell, scratch the last line02:01
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KotCzarnyon a side note:
bencohhmm WindowSystem=libpvrQWSWSEGL.so02:17
bencohthat's for qws ... and afaik not for qt/x1102:18
KotCzarnyharmattan has much more tweakables in this file02:24
KotCzarnybencoh, was it you who suggested one line disabling for modest?02:29
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KotCzarnywow, 18yo said 'grow up' to freemangordon :)02:33
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R0b0t1No idea if this is too device specific, but is the x-loader binary signed or signed and encypted?05:02
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bencohKotCzarny: (see X-Maemo-Prestarted)07:59
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KotCzarnybencoh: what do i change from that file? shall i disable service entirely?09:28
KotCzarnyor just -prestarted09:28
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KotCzarnyhmm, commenting prestarted stopped it autmatically, nice09:29
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KotCzarnywhat are possible effects of disabling the prestart? it will only launch a bit longer or mail autochecks are done by it too?09:32
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bencohKotCzarny: reraid what doc said10:02
KotCzarnybencoh, i do agree that trimming too much is a bad thing, but there are things that i dont use, yet, they might be important to others in some way, is it bad to ask?10:03
bencohI'm talking about what he said regarding modest and alarmd (whatever the spelling)10:04
KotCzarnyhmm, alarmclient: not found10:11
KotCzarny[root@Nokia-N900:~]# alarmclient -L|grep modest10:13
KotCzarnyi guess it only puts things on shedule if you have any email accounts with autochecks10:13
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KotCzarnynot adding any contacts to the desktop shaves 5-10M of memory10:22
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KotCzarnymicrob settings don't affect browserd settings?10:31
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gr8hi, the Neo900 sounds awesome and it claims to care about my privacy. But what about radio triangulation? See This is a major concern for me, in fact I don't use mobile phones for this reason. I guess the very same problem applies to the Neo900? Is it possible to disable the phone antenna and LTE and just use Wifi?10:32
KotCzarnygr8: there is #neo900 channel10:33
gr8oh ok10:33
KotCzarnyit's very specific question, you know10:33
gr8the neo900 website directed me to this channel10:33
KotCzarnyahm, in general, if you dont use gsm modem, you can try setting offline mode10:34
Humpelstilzchenbut that will disable wifi on maemo too10:34
KotCzarnydoes it? [checks]10:34
KotCzarnyahm, right, shucks10:35
bencohitt does yeah :)10:35
bencohthere might be some dbus command to turn the modem off10:35
Humpelstilzchenbut there is are tools which can disable only gsm or only wifi10:35
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KotCzarnyon droid 'plane mode' only disables gsm chip10:35
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gr8really? on Cyanogenmod it also disables Wifi10:36
KotCzarnyHumpelstilzchen: he asked about neo900, it might be different than n900's dbus commands10:36
HumpelstilzchenKotCzarny: not really when we use the same software..10:36
gr8yeah I mean if a linux kernel is running on it, it might be possible to use all linux commands, right?10:37
Humpelstilzchenprobably not all, might have a problem with some newer systemd ones..10:37
KotCzarnyyes, unless something is stuck into binary blob10:37
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KotCzarnytmo jewels: gconftool-2 -s -t int /apps/osso/status-area-applet-battery/use_design_capacity 010:52
KotCzarnyAbove saves lot of frustration with getting completely BS values posing as correct, when battery gauge is not calibrated (at all 0 like, lost calibration data due to battery out of device for too long and dead bupbat).10:52
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KotCzarnyThe requested URL /favicon.ico was not found on this server.11:36
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KotCzarnyl29ah: for your battery troubles, maybe you'll find some tricks there:
L29Ahi don't see how it's relevant13:12
KotCzarnyhas some battery charging magic13:12
KotCzarnyie. if you cant get bme to make it work right, you can override it13:13
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R0b0t1sirs I am loss13:58
R0b0t1where find compile repo for maemo?13:58
KotCzarnythat question doesnt compute13:58
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R0b0t1KotCzarny: I wish compile maemo13:58
R0b0t1for device13:58
KotCzarnywhole thing?13:58
R0b0t1yes, thanks13:58
R0b0t1especially kernel13:58
KotCzarnyparts have sources, some are binary blobs though13:59
R0b0t1google found dead links :\13:59
bencohyou wont be able to recompile everything13:59
R0b0t1which not?13:59
KotCzarnyhere be kernel13:59
bencohand there is no easy process for a scratch build13:59
bencohbut anyway, see scratchbox13:59
KotCzarnyjust apt-get install kernel-source in scratchbox13:59
infobot[scratchbox] a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
R0b0t1why no crosschain?14:00
KotCzarnyask nokia14:00
R0b0t1crossdev no?14:00
R0b0t1what breaks?14:00
KotCzarnyyou are free to prepare your own build env14:00
bencohwont be easy though14:01
R0b0t1hoped past experience had found things not to do14:01
bencohthere was a gsoc to port maemo to the openembedded build system14:02
R0b0t1bencoh: can you be more specific?14:02
R0b0t1I see14:02
KotCzarnyfor open/closed parts14:02
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R0b0t1ah I had seen14:03
KotCzarnyand this too, though it might be a bit out of date14:03
MaxdamantusA recnt kernel is probably relatively easy to compile.14:04
Maxdamantusyou just need a recent gcc/binutils targeted for ARM.14:04
R0b0t1Is armv7a-hardfloat-linux-gnueabi-'14:04
R0b0t1proper cross prefix?14:04
KotCzarnyweren't some n900 things dropped from mainline?14:05
R0b0t1I will attempt to build system later using that. One thing I could not find is any kind of serial terminal. Is there a debug bridge over usb or similar?14:05
R0b0t1or would I need to break out the 1.8V tty pins14:05
R0b0t1on my device14:05
MaxdamantusI don't think something like that would be necessary.14:06
Maxdamantusif you're trying to use a recent kernel, fbcon works fine.14:06
Maxdamantusthere's probably some USB tty gadget you could use if you want too.14:07
KotCzarnyalso, google for openwrt port for n900, might be what you need14:07
R0b0t1Maxdamantus, what do you mean?14:07
R0b0t1I will probably need to supply input14:07
R0b0t1device does not have on-the-go14:07
Maxdamantusgadget is the opposite of OTG14:07
R0b0t1I have one that would work14:07
bencohKotCzarny: yeah, some stuff broke, some even got dropped14:07
R0b0t1would just prefer not to solder :p14:08
R0b0t1meh I will put in order for some pogo pins14:08
R0b0t1hm ok14:18
R0b0t1If I enable OTG on my device (n900) and set console parameter, I should have something that will work if necessary14:18
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KotCzarnydon't get too excited, it's not 100%14:31
R0b0t1what works is sufficient14:38
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KotCzarnyif you wish to use it only as a minicomputer without phone part, sure, it works, you can even have android working14:39
R0b0t1I wish to use gentoo system as host and virtualize android or maemo14:40
R0b0t1Processor supports ARM TrustZone, should be possible14:40
KotCzarnybut you know n900 only has 256M of ram?14:43
R0b0t1should've seen how many VMs I got in 2gb14:48
KotCzarnyvm is not a problem, running fat apps is14:48
R0b0t1honestly it is mostly to copy AOSP. I don't use many apps myself, but having a "working" ecosystem already is nice14:51
R0b0t1AOSP telephony services*14:51
KotCzarnytelephone service without any audio?14:51
R0b0t1if it works in maemo it will work eventually14:52
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R0b0t1n900 dts got mainlined, yet there's no defconfig15:23
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KotCzarnymake rx51_defconfig15:25
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R0b0t1yeah that doesn't exist15:57
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Luke-JrR0b0t1: Maemo needs >256M by itself even without virt17:17
Luke-Jrand *possible* != code exists17:17
KotCzarnyluke, it doesnt, i still have some mem free17:18
KotCzarnytiny bit, but17:18
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endsohm..speaking of gentoo on device..I'm surprised no one(s) [with far far more technical understanding than I that is] hasn't done antiX for arm....I think it was mentioned in their own forums once or twice about being open to it..but they don't savvy embedded from what I it was never done.17:26
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* DocScrutinizer05 kicks the bot17:51
KotCzarnylooks like timeout17:51
KotCzarnynot a netsplit17:51
KotCzarnyie. some server died17:51
DocScrutinizer05anyway, bot is online again17:52
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Cereshello! connection is a bit unstable so i may ask this question again later :P(sorry about that!) Where can i find package dependencies that aren't available on any repos?19:26
infoboti heard repos is deb ./;; deb ./19:27
infoboti heard maemo-repos is
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Ceresi should probably add that i'm on OS 200819:36
Ceresi will check the second one now19:36
Ceresok, i have all the diablo ones, and the tabletter servers must be down for a while now19:36
KotCzarnyyeah, tableteer went down, i have a copy locally on disk i think if you need specific packages19:36
KotCzarnydont know if its complete though19:38
Ceresyou sound like a life saver19:38
Ceresi could make a list19:38
Cereshave you considered uploading it somewhere19:39
L29AhCeres: did you try oscp?19:39
KotCzarnyif you know some nice and easy file hosting i can upload it wholly19:39
Ceresi feel like i will be hated if i ask this but i dont know qhat that is19:40
KotCzarnythe best media player for n8x0 and n90019:40
Ceres(referring to oscp)19:40
KotCzarnyunless you prefer media libraries, then it isnt19:40
KotCzarnybut if you prefer dir/file libraries then there is nothing better19:41
Ceresthe one i can think of off the top of my head is libgcc-something19:42
Ceresand some c++ related libs?19:42
Ceresi only recently discovered irc so i havent tried installing again19:43
Ceresuuuum wetransfer is easy to use19:44
Ceresyou upload what you want, share the link, and people download it19:44
Cerescatch is files are kept onlinw for a week or so19:44
KotCzarnychecking it19:44
KotCzarnyshouldnt gcc be in repo?19:47
stryngswhy so early?19:48
KotCzarnystryngs, diablo is old19:48
stryngsdidnt pay attention =)19:48
KotCzarnyceres: what's your apr config?19:48
KotCzarnytableteer had some closed binaries with specific licenses, rest was in regular diablo repo19:50
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KotCzarnydeb diablo free non-free19:51
KotCzarnyyou should have this one for most of the nokia provided stuff19:51
KotCzarnywrong link19:51
Ceresare you asking me to send you my sources? :P19:53
KotCzarnyhow can i check the source repo of the package that is installed on the system?19:55
KotCzarnyand by source i mean from where it was downloaded19:55
Ceresgot DC'd, didn't see it if you replied19:56
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KotCzarnyceres, as a side note, gcc is not meant to be installed on the device, only for sdk. if you want ondevice devel you have to be cautious and add sdk repo19:57
KotCzarnyso i guess you can safely comment the tableteer repos19:58
Ceresok this is frustrating, i'm getting DC'd all the time19:58
KotCzarnyuse some shell?19:58
Ceresif you guys are still here and willing to help i will ask you again when i'm off work!19:58
KotCzarnysure, but take a note ^19:59
Ceressorry for this but the internet sucks here -_-19:59
Ceresi'm logging all this so it's cool! ^_^19:59
Ceresthanks for everything so far! :)20:00
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KotCzarnyhmm, how to translate into apt entry?20:08
KotCzarnyit tries to add /dists/ everytime20:08
KotCzarnyok, it's for sdk. nvm20:11
Palideb maemo4.1.2/sdk free non-free20:12
Palideb maemo4.1.2/tools free non-free20:12
PaliKotCzarny ^^^20:12
KotCzarnypali, thx, but i just realized that repo is for sdk (ie. scratchbox)20:13
Paliyes it is sdk & tools repo20:13
Paliall repos are on apt-mirror page20:13
KotCzarnypali: added to [[Repository]] page20:16
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KotCzarnyhmm, according to, bl-5j has a 100kOhm on bsi20:57
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ShadowJKSounds approximately right, if I remember correctly21:12
KotCzarnysomeone said 75 recently21:12
KotCzarnynot that it matters much21:13
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DocScrutinizer05iirc it's more like 75k22:12
DocScrutinizer05depending on temperature22:12
DocScrutinizer05I helped Pali to create a table temperature-vs-resistance once22:13
KotCzarnyanother page claiming its 100k22:13
DocScrutinizer05so? is it relevant?22:13
KotCzarnyonly if one builds own battery22:14
KotCzarnyi guess for direct dc input without battery both values would work22:14
Paliyes, DocScrutinizer05 provided data for temperature table22:15
DocScrutinizer05says my KeySight22:16
Paliand then on internet I found exact formula for that22:16
DocScrutinizer05on a random battery labeled like it was a BL-5J22:16
KotCzarnyhow much on bp-5l (if you have one)22:16
DocScrutinizer05100.0k on 2nd BL-5J99.9k on 3rd. And sorry what Pali and I did was temperature sensor iin N900, not BSI22:19
KotCzarnyhmm, i wonder if bme could invalidate capacity for big capacity in l29ah case because of mismatching bsi coded one22:22
DocScrutinizer05BP-5L? nope. BP-4L I got22:22
KotCzarnybp-5l was in 770 and n80022:23
KotCzarny(also e61/e62/n92)22:23
KotCzarnyand 950022:23
DocScrutinizer05BP-4L: 120,2k22:24
povbotBug 9789: Mugen battery: HAL not getting correct capacity and current states22:24
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KotCzarny2.4Ah in mugen is 105k22:25
DocScrutinizer05BME isn't made to detect different batteries by BSI22:25
KotCzarnyread that bug report, it's quite interesting22:27
DocScrutinizer05it *is* capable to detect a so called "test battery", and possibly even a second breed maybe called debug22:27
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: I'm absolutely sure I've already read every interesting maemo bug :-)22:27
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povbotBug 9789: Mugen battery: HAL not getting correct capacity and current states22:31
infobothmm... joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org22:31
KotCzarnyi didnt get that far yet22:31
KotCzarnyreading few things at the same time22:31
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