IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2015-07-19

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endsonaw it can do alot ...but it is vague concerning real-time effects seems there isn't any examples of continous runnning. There is recording...processing...playing...not simultaneous or even slightly delayed simul. real-time. It looks to be a fab program in itself...but not for "right now" usage so-to-speak.00:11
KotCzarnyi remember using it as rt effect (kind of)00:12
KotCzarnyyou just pipe it00:14
endsoIf that's the case ..all it needs is a gui...since stopping to figure out the input txt at the command prompt you want to use to change the output  kills any on-the-fly manipulation..00:16
KotCzarnysure, but first you have to check if it works as expected on n8x000:16
endsohehe ..yeah...00:17
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bencohKotCzarny: pong ?01:44
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endsosoon as I get an adapter in my hands ..I'm going to see about sox and ecamegapedal as well02:37
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endsoKotczarny: couldn't resist...put headphones in the port and ..yeah just ran gtkgep on one of my n800's ...yeah I see what you is quasi-almost-totally-usable just need to tweak things..also..due to the n8x0 screen size... text for the most part... is almost legible..06:41
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KotCzarnybencoh: do you own a n8x0 ?09:11
endsoah yes pop-up effects-plugin windows when reduced not reduce..they are killed..output doesn't seem impeded though..09:12
KotCzarnyendo, they are not killed09:12
KotCzarnythey are not-hildonized09:12
KotCzarnyie. they are there, just not on the list09:12
KotCzarnylong time ago i wrote a little app to show all the windows on the n8x0 (visible and minimized)09:13
KotCzarnyjust for those non-hildonized experiments09:13
endsoah..non-hildonized...I could see rather ..hear...that the plugins were working was odd/awkward though to lose the input windows..09:16
KotCzarnyhehe, oscp core can also play without being visible09:17
endsoexcellent little program...I'll be using it for sure.09:18
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endsowell..tomorrow is a new day of puttering ...lotta fun stuff to do now..thanks to Kot and Android 808 and all the other good folks  along the real-time road09:21
KotCzarnyno worries09:21
KotCzarnyalso this09:23
endsoNow I ordered a whack of adapters, a couple of nice clamp mounts and grips.. and just gotta wait for them to arrive..pick-up,plug-in,amp-out...soooo much lighter than one of my convertible tab/pc's even...can't wait09:24
KotCzarnydid you order a battery too?09:25
KotCzarnyyou know, one of those powerbanks with usb output09:25
KotCzarnyso you can power all those piggybacks09:25
KotCzarnyand then you can even throw powered speaker to the mix09:26
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endsohahaha...well the pick-up is miniscule..the amps are power-corded proper shouldn't be much of a drain...if I want to go it on onboard n8x0 power I do have a couple sets of tiny speakers that run off device...and a couple others that run off usb and one set that run off em all somewhere around the shop09:31
KotCzarnymind you, you only have ~100-200mA available09:31
KotCzarnyso while headphones are feasible, speaker could be draining too much09:32
endsoyeah it ain't alot running on device and it prolly will drain at a goodly rate off device..It'll be good to test..but yeah on the norm it'll either be personal at late hours with headphones or ...outting to externally powered proper amps during the a couple fenders and marshalls ...nice and beastly...should do the trick09:34
KotCzarnyand i think you were going to sleep :P09:36
endsoyeah..that was before I got introduced to :D09:37
endsoSleepless years later I'm getting less on #maemo09:38
KotCzarnyhe he09:38
KotCzarnyi stopped having sleep deprivation, it's usuall not worth it, unless you're on the roll09:38
endsoThis is my brain on maemo...This is my maemo-brain on gtkgep...This is my maemo-brain-on-gtkgep with a harp (instead of a guitar)
endsoDon't do gtkgep kids09:41
KotCzarnyelectric guitars rock09:41
endsoChong is the craziest lectric-funny-mofo there is. I'm continually amused and impressed by him...09:43
KotCzarnysome guys have skills09:43
endsoI'll watch that then... I'm hittin' the snort-fort ...need sleep...back with joe by 8am...09:45
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bencohKotCzarny: no I dont10:25
KotCzarnypity :/ do you know anyone with n8x0 and some dsp programming knowledge?10:26
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bencohno freaking clue10:28
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Pali~seen jonwil13:53
Paliwhere is infobot??13:53
PaliDocScrutinizer05: we are lost13:54
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: only a click on reboot-icon :-)14:22
PaliDocScrutinizer05: now I have 58 days uptime14:22
Pali(on my N900)14:23
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DocScrutinizer05not YOU, I for infobot :-D14:23
Palithis can be good for statistics of maemo/hildon applications14:23
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Palido you know how to read how much swap space is using application with specific PID?14:24
DocScrutinizer05t900:~# uptime14:24
DocScrutinizer05 13:51:25 up 416 days,  1:57, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0014:24
Paliso it is time to find memory eaters :D14:25
DocScrutinizer05(swap space) I usually use (h)top for this. There's a way via /proc for sure14:25
Palideterminate which daemons consume lot of memory14:25
Paliand so which needs to be fixed14:25
KotCzarnyscroll to lototux answer14:25
DocScrutinizer05t900:~# free14:26
DocScrutinizer05              total         used         free       shared      buffers14:26
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DocScrutinizer05  Mem:       245404       240300         5104            0          60414:26
DocScrutinizer05 Swap:       786424       164192       62223214:26
DocScrutinizer05Total:      1031828       404492       62733614:26
DocScrutinizer05infobot: +uptime14:27
infobot- Uptime for purl -14:27
infobotNow: 4m 48s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux14:27
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infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201014:27
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200914:27
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200914:27
PaliKotCzarny: does not work14:27
KotCzarnycould be for newer kernel, you get the idea and paths tho14:27
PaliKotCzarny: there is no VmSwap line in /proc/PID/status file14:28
KotCzarnyor some kernel debug compile options14:28
Paliwe need to read it without rebooting :-)14:28
APicDocScrutinizer05: Glad You are back. You really rock.  ☺14:28
Pali~seen jonwil14:28
infobotjonwil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 31d 10h 21m 32s ago, saying: 'particularly given that the train trips I take on a regular basis have areas with low or no 2G signal'.14:28
Pali~seen FatPhil14:29
infobotfatphil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 234d 20h 8m 40s ago, saying: 'I know I'll get in trouble for asking, but what kernel are you running?'.14:29
Pali~seen FatPhil_14:29
infobotfatphil_ <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 668d 14h 41m 8s ago, saying: 'yup, those are the US americans'.14:29
DocScrutinizer05APic: ta14:29
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Paliecho $((`sed -n 's/^Swap:\s*\(\S*\)\s*kB$/\1/p' /proc/$PID/smaps 2>/dev/null | tr '\n' '+' | sed 's/+$/\n/'`))15:01
Palithis is working also on maemo kernel 2.6.28 :-)15:01
PaliKotCzarny: ^^^15:02
Paliat least I belive that Swap line in smaps is what I want to use...15:02
KotCzarnycheck if it's true, start new program and see if it's 015:03
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KotCzarny[root@Nokia-N900:~]# ./checkswap15:04
KotCzarnynot worky15:04
KotCzarnyLinux Nokia-N900 #1 PREEMPT Wed Dec 10 13:52:39 UTC 2014 armv7l unknown15:04
KotCzarny  Mem:       235252       228728         6524            0         472815:04
KotCzarny Swap:       786424        64828       72159615:04
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KotCzarny"Swap" shows how much would-be-15:08
KotCzarny              anonymous memory is also used, but out on swap.15:08
KotCzarnyfrom man 5 proc15:08
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KotCzarnypid=1444; sum=0; for each in `grep Swap /proc/$pid/smaps | sed -n 's/^Swap:\s*\(\S*\)\s*kB$/\1/p'`;\15:15
KotCzarny do sum=$[ $sum + $each ]; done; echo $sum15:15
KotCzarnytry this one15:15
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KotCzarny(needs bash tho)15:16
KotCzarnyor just change [ ] to (( ))15:17
Palishell script memuse15:19
Paliit works also in maemo busybox sh15:20
Paliso hildon-status-menu consume most of RAM15:21
Palineeds to be fixed...15:21
KotCzarnyhe he15:21
KotCzarnymost likely it does more than name suggests15:21
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KotCzarnythose are mine15:46
KotCzarnyin a bit different format15:47
KotCzarnyi think i shouldnt use 'Size' field15:47
KotCzarnyrss and swap15:50
KotCzarnywhat is browserd-s5711-nRTComMessagingServer ?15:54
KotCzarnyand why is it eating 27M of ram15:54
KotCzarnyand this is the script i used:
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PaliKotCzarny: browserd is server daemon for gecko html browser renderer16:30
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Paliand RTComMessagingServer is probably server part of GUI Chats/Messaging application16:31
Paliso I think that process load that HTML+CSS stuff and render SMS, IM messages, history, etc16:31
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KotCzarnyphone part apps eat most of the mem17:08
KotCzarnyrtcom server + msgui + callui == 60 megs17:09
KotCzarnymaybe i should write replacements in gtk, hum17:10
bencohI'm sure it would be snappier17:10
KotCzarnyi bet even pygtk would be17:11
bencohnot sure you can though17:11
bencoherm no, no py pretty please :D17:11
KotCzarnybut seriously, bloat, bloat everywhere17:12
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KotCzarnywhat is modest?17:16
bencohmail reader17:17
bencohthis one is opensource17:17
KotCzarnyosso-abook + osso-abook-home applet == 20megs17:17
KotCzarnyi have never used modest17:17
KotCzarnyit shouldnt be running17:17
bencohyou can disable it17:18
KotCzarnyand half of the other stuff17:18
bencohyeah, that's a one line conf17:18
KotCzarnyi believe in opt-in bloat17:18
KotCzarnynot load all, you has swaps17:18
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: done in maemo to speed up startup17:19
DocScrutinizer05vital for dialer17:19
KotCzarnydoc: i can understand dialer, but what if one never uses some app?17:19
DocScrutinizer05arguable for stuff like messaging17:19
KotCzarnyjava, *office have preloaders too, but at least they ask if they should run17:20
DocScrutinizer05(never use) like modest? kill it with fire17:20
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DocScrutinizer05it's a tad tricky since it has persistent rerun schedules in alarmd17:21
KotCzarnywould be nice to have page in settings to enable/disable apps or their preloaders17:21
bencohDocScrutinizer05: who/what ?17:21
KotCzarny7.5megs for modest alone is quite a chunk17:21
bencohhmm ... disabling it in the app/desktop file should be enough17:22
bencohlooks like it works here at least17:22
KotCzarnyalmost 6% of mem17:22
DocScrutinizer05bencoh: prolly not, alarmd reruns it on next scheduled check for new mail17:22
bencohDocScrutinizer05: right, I dont have any mail account on it :)17:22
bencohso nothing to check17:23
DocScrutinizer05dunno, possible it actually acts "smart" and doesn't schedule reruns in alarmd then17:24
KotCzarnywiki page for slimming down unused/unneeded apps?17:24
bencohthere arent that many to kill17:24
bencohunless you dont use your phone17:24
KotCzarnybut it would at least provide hints for users what can be disabled17:25
KotCzarnysome people use mail, some dont17:25
bencohyou can check modest, calendar, abook, browserd17:25
DocScrutinizer05alarmclient -L|less +'/modest'  ;; I guess17:25
KotCzarnyi think abook is needed for contacts17:25
bencohKotCzarny: indeed17:25
KotCzarnysame for browserd17:25
DocScrutinizer05abook is needed for contacts which in turn is needed for dialer17:26
KotCzarnyif we had replacement for dialer/contacts it would be nice17:26
DocScrutinizer05browserd is used in a *lot* of things17:26
KotCzarnycan one make calls/send receive sms without?17:26
DocScrutinizer05err, not really17:27
bencohwithout what ?17:27
DocScrutinizer05without dialer I guess17:27
KotCzarnyie. can i call some dbus command to make a call?17:27
bencohyou need a UI anyway, unless you want to type some dbus cli17:27
bencohsee wiki phone control17:27
KotCzarnybut question is if it goes through dialer or direct to modem17:27
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: making a call invokesa dialer to show call status and allow for call teardown17:28
KotCzarnythat's why i thought about dialer/messaging/contacts replacement17:28
DocScrutinizer05try: pnatd; ATD<full phone number>;17:28
DocScrutinizer05watch the ending semicolon!17:28
KotCzarnydoc: and for receiving?17:29
DocScrutinizer05pnatd ATA17:29
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DocScrutinizer05but ... inbound call invokes dialer17:29
KotCzarnycan it be disabled?17:29
DocScrutinizer05and dialer prolly triggers ringtone17:29
KotCzarnyand just call some other dbus service?17:29
DocScrutinizer05everything is possible ;-)17:29
KotCzarnydoc, when you return from the camp im gonna nag you about it17:30
KotCzarnyit would be swell to have phone/messaging part splitted from other social clunk17:30
KotCzarnyat least for me17:30
DocScrutinizer05dialer and messaging are basically unentangled17:31
KotCzarnybecause seriously:17:31
KotCzarny14000   156     /usr/bin/rtcom-messaging-ui (/proc/5710)17:31
KotCzarny13852   172     /usr/bin/rtcom-call-ui (/proc/5474)17:31
KotCzarnyand it's running all the time17:32
DocScrutinizer05a (potentially) *huge* resource hog is SQLite eventsdb17:32
KotCzarnyno such app17:32
KotCzarnyunless you mean they load it into mem17:32
DocScrutinizer05dialer and messaging use SQLite to access eventsdb17:32
KotCzarnyanyone has a freshly flashed n900 to check how much mem they use17:33
DocScrutinizer05and that loads basically the whole database into memory17:33
DocScrutinizer05and worst thing: it *semms* Nokia didn't ever bother about shrinking the database by purging old entries17:34
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DocScrutinizer05you can delete single recors from call history via GUI, afaik17:34
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DocScrutinizer05you can delete single text messages, via GUI17:35
KotCzarnyphone history is cleaned17:35
KotCzarnyoldest entry is 6months ago17:35
KotCzarnyso at least this part isnt cluttered17:35
KotCzarnyand you can clean sms 'conversations' per number17:37
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l `locate el-v1`17:37
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 user users 1199104 2015-07-18 22:27 /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db17:37
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 user users       0 2011-03-06 20:12 /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db-journal17:37
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 user users       0 2015-07-18 22:27 /var/lib/sqlite3/_home_user_.rtcom-eventlogger_el-v1.db-journal17:37
KotCzarnybah, you can even select multiple conversations at once17:37
DocScrutinizer05or you simply delete /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db ;-P17:38
KotCzarnyi don't wanna :P17:38
KotCzarnybut you have more options in that matter available in the ui17:38
DocScrutinizer05anyway, I should. >1MB is a reason for phone to get sluggish17:39
KotCzarny-rw-------    1 user     users     2225152 Jul 19 13:54 /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db17:40
DocScrutinizer05and I just found a convenient way to make sure there's no 'missed calls/SMS' on my phone: date of /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db17:40
KotCzarnylooks like yours got recreated using wide access rights17:40
DocScrutinizer05funny, seems you found a minor flaw in maemo17:41
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^ might you want to have a look at this?17:41
KotCzarnynot that it is something important17:42
KotCzarnymost people use only user and some root17:42
PaliDocScrutinizer05: what exactly?17:42
DocScrutinizer05Pali: when deleting /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db , check if it's recreated with correct file permissions17:42
KotCzarnyalso, /var/lib/sqlite* stuff is also world readable17:42
Paliso somebody create it with incorrect permissions?17:43
DocScrutinizer05maybe backupmenu restore fails?17:43
Palino idea17:43
KotCzarnydoc, maybe you deleted it and messaging ui recreated it17:43
DocScrutinizer05I moved to this device via BM restore a maybe 6 month or a year ago. Dunno when the file permissions changed17:44
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: that was my first idea17:44
DocScrutinizer05either that, or BM restore17:44
KotCzarnyls -la /home/user/ ?17:45
DocScrutinizer05Pali: it's no big thing. Just a point for the "boring weekends" todo list ;-)17:45
KotCzarny.dbus should be user readable only17:45
KotCzarny.mafw* too17:45
KotCzarnyyou will see if it's the only one17:45
DocScrutinizer05drwx------ 3 user users 4096 2000-01-01 01:00 /home/user/.dbus/17:46
KotCzarny2000? :)17:46
KotCzarnysame here17:46
Paliit is normal17:46
Palithis is time is set when rtc is not working17:47
Paliour rtc battery is bad17:47
KotCzarnywe have rtc battery at all?17:47
Paliyes, n900 has it17:47
KotCzarnywouldnt it leak after so many years?17:47
infobotit has been said that bupbat is use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or, or, or
KotCzarny12 months, lol17:48
KotCzarnysecond link is dead17:48
KotCzarnyor just site rehashing17:49
DocScrutinizer05meh, it's dead every other month17:49
KotCzarnyit should be user replaceable unit :/17:50
DocScrutinizer05it shouldn't break sooner than after 10 years of product life17:56
KotCzarny4 years remaining17:56
DocScrutinizer05alas that series of batteries was broken-by-design17:56
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erlehmanni never knew18:02
erlehmann>  Funny, I got so used to setting date/time after swapping batteries that I assumed this had always be the case.18:03
KotCzarnyjust use ntpdate18:03
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KotCzarnyand if you do it often, make a shortcut on the desktop18:04
DocScrutinizer05I kicked out the dang /etc/X11/Xsession.d/30osso_startup_wizard18:05
KotCzarnyoh, right, gonna do the same, and start documenting18:05
DocScrutinizer05settings->time&date [x]auto-update does the rest18:05
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antranigvping, hay guys, need a little advice, yesterday I was dancing Yarkhushta, and my N900 dropped from my pocket, and there is a LITTLE TINY scratch at the edge18:08
antranigvnothing big, but, anyone knows how to remove it?18:08
KotCzarnyum, dont?18:08
antranigvor make it... less noteble?18:08
KotCzarnymake the survivor scars be visible!18:08
antranigvI was thinking to use a, (what do you call that thing girls use for nails?) for the color18:09
antranigvhaha KotCzarny18:09
antranigvthat is also an amazing idae18:09
Wizzupantranigv: you could consider getting a cover for your n90018:09
DocScrutinizer05antranigv: not nail varnish, but a permanent black marker pen18:09
KotCzarnyyou can use black permanent marker18:10
antranigvDocScrutinizer05: cool idea18:10
DocScrutinizer05first!! \o/18:10
antranigvWizzup: a cover?18:10
antranigvlike a case?18:10
KotCzarnydoc: i'm editing the wiki :P18:10
bencohpermanent black marker doesnt work on the bezel18:10
bencohas far as I can tell18:10
KotCzarnydepends on the marker, he he18:10
bencohmaybe ...18:11
WizzupI have this one:
KotCzarny38usd, wow, almost price of the device18:11
antranigvKotCzarny: lol18:12
KotCzarnywow, 800usd18:13
KotCzarnyvintage! collectible! rare!18:13
antranigvis that new?18:14
KotCzarnyyou guys should better care for your vintages :P18:14
antranigvthe pen did it fine! I mean the marker18:15
KotCzarnylet it dry tho18:15
antranigvlooks better18:15
antranigvfeels the same18:15
antranigvthis will help me to feel the phone, so I wont hold it in the wrong dirrection18:16
* antranigv feels like The DareDevil18:16
KotCzarnyyou feel the colors?18:16
antranigvKotCzarny: yes, but the wrong way... I'm also daltonic18:17
antranigvdaltonic? is it right to day that?18:17
antranigv(that's what we say at least)18:17
KotCzarnycolor blind :P18:17
antranigvI have problem with the colors18:17
antranigvKotCzarny: tnx! :D18:17
KotCzarnydaltonism is used in english only for deuteranopia18:18
KotCzarny(red-green color blindness)18:19
antranigvno I'm not red... I think the green is my problem18:19
antranigvanyways, my biggest problem will be not having a N90018:20
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KotCzarnydoc: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/10hildon_welcome is nokia hands?18:27
Wizzupantranigv: same thing, cheaper here
KotCzarnyinitial page, anyone has other tips?18:30
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antranigvWizzup: tnx!18:37
WizzupI got it from there18:37
Wizzupv happy with it18:37
antranigvKotCzarny: ah, the hands will be handy, I hate them (:18:37
Wizzupsaved my phone (and also my girlfriend's n900) in many occasions18:38
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endsothat cherry's been popped :D hehehee ...ahhhh! Goooodddd Morrnninnnnggg Topeka!18:56
endsoWatched that guitar clip...guys got skillz18:56
KotCzarnyyup. first minute i was like 'oh, is that all' then he started rocking18:56
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endsohm ..yeah pdair has 'em cheaper hard case I have...have em too for my n810' the leather "book" style as well...but Boxwave makes the best leather's got card slots and slots for credit/debit/id cards as well as a huge pocket the width and length of the case front.19:00
endsoyeah..watched his other vids as well...pretty darn good.19:01
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KotCzarnyhmm, anyone know if funambol is needed?19:06
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* DocScrutinizer05 dispises - it's quite... subjective. And for cherry, it's more involved that simply uninstalling the package19:17
Wizzupperfect setup would be mainline kernel ;) *cough*19:18
KotCzarnymainline kernel AND current libraries19:18
DocScrutinizer05indeed, what a hybris to claim you found the perfect setup19:18
KotCzarnystill, anyone has some tips and tricks of what is safe to remove?19:19
DocScrutinizer05sort of resembles crappatch19:19
infobotspeedpatch is probably >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch], or [bug report]19:19
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bencohsetup-that-sucks-less ? :)19:19
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: I don't care too much about 2what to remove"19:20
KotCzarnyyou do19:20
DocScrutinizer05since... it's individual19:20
KotCzarnyotherwise you wouldnt be looking for hildon-welcome etc19:20
infobothmm... jrtools is
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KotCzarnywhat is qtm?19:27
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DocScrutinizer05qt-mobile, I guess19:30
KotCzarnyit's some framework, but is it used by anyone/anything?19:30
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KotCzarnyhmm, is nokiamessaging needed?19:58
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DocScrutinizer05no, prolly obsolete20:07
KotCzarnygood. 4.5M of rootfs reclaimed20:09
KotCzarnyalso, trying to remove modest messes badly with apt20:09
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DocScrutinizer05it messes with the metapackage20:13
KotCzarnyyeah, but things get hairy20:13
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DocScrutinizer05that's the congenital defect of maemo: Nokia decided to pack a single huge metapackage to deploy stuff they think every device should have. It's quite fsckdup a concept20:15
KotCzarnycan it be fixed by replacing such package by a dummy one?20:15
DocScrutinizer05it was very convenient for them since they didn't need to care about *real* dependencies20:15
DocScrutinizer05(dummy) that's extremely tricky20:16
DocScrutinizer05but basically it is exactly what CSSU does20:16
KotCzarnywhat is the name of the pkg?20:17
KotCzarnyii  mp-fremantle-community-pr                           21.2011.38-1Tmaemo1.2              Community SSU package, includes latest fixes from Gitorious and the community20:18
KotCzarnyi have it installed20:18
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KotCzarnyso it has to be something else20:19
DocScrutinizer05it? hast to be? sth else?20:20
DocScrutinizer05this is the mETApACKAGE20:20
KotCzarnytry on yours: apt-get remove modest20:20
DocScrutinizer05no I won't20:20
DocScrutinizer05since I know modest is in mp20:20
KotCzarny(doesnt have to say y, it just calculates deps)20:20
KotCzarnyso, can we get modest OUT of mp- ?20:20
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DocScrutinizer05sure, edit it20:21
KotCzarnywhich, what, where20:21
infobotxy is probably The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X.
KotCzarnyby edit you mean 'download, unpack, edit, repack, reinstall' ?20:22
DocScrutinizer05ask cssu guys20:22
KotCzarnywho is cssu guys?20:23
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DocScrutinizer05apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr20:25
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DocScrutinizer05apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr|egrep "(Depends:|Replaces:|Conflicts:)"20:29
KotCzarnyosso-calculator (>= 2.0-1+0cssu1), osso-calculator-ui (>= 2.0-1+0cssu1)20:30
KotCzarnywow, calculator with server-client model?20:30
DocScrutinizer05apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr|grep "^Depends:"|head -n 120:31
DocScrutinizer05yep, they pimped calculator beyond sanity20:32
KotCzarnyhmm, can mp-fremantle-community-pr be simply removed?20:32
DocScrutinizer05in theory yes20:32
KotCzarnyand in practice?20:32
DocScrutinizer05in practice you won't receive any updates then20:32
DocScrutinizer05ask cssu folks20:33
KotCzarnyupdates to what?20:33
DocScrutinizer05to CSSU :-)20:33
KotCzarnybut that only if they invent some new package20:33
DocScrutinizer05which is a description of the meaning of "update2, yes20:34
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KotCzarnywell, already installed pkgs will update20:34
Cor-Aimeaning not yes20:34
KotCzarnyisn't that apt job?20:34
DocScrutinizer05please ask somebody else, i'm not a packager20:34
KotCzarnyk, changing topic: this is the thunderstorm heading to me
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KotCzarnymaybe i should turn of some of the devices :>20:35
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DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: when nokia (or CSSU) rolls out a new release, they provide an update of the mp, and that in turn updates all the packages vie the "depends:". Maemo doesn't use the usual apt-get upgrade, since that wouldn't know about dependencies between packages, updating one package to new version and leaving another package on an incompatible level. I explained that Nokia decided to not care about proper dependencies in "simple" packages20:44
DocScrutinizer05and instead packed everything into a metapackage to ensure everything is consistent. So apt-get upgrade is deprecated20:44
KotCzarnydoc: all would be nice and dandy if we had few gigs for rootfs20:46
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Luke-JrKotCzarny: we do..?20:50
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KotCzarnyluke: for / ?20:50
Luke-Jrhm, maybe not20:51
Luke-Jrrootfs                  227.8M    189.3M     34.3M  85% /20:51
KotCzarnynew to maemo?20:51
Luke-Jrno, old20:53
KotCzarnyi know, just kidding20:53
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Luke-Jr'//dev/mmcblk0p5            9.8G      8.3G      1.0G  89% /media/gentoo20:53
* Luke-Jr stabs N900 for having such a slow MicroSD bus20:54
KotCzarnyosso-notes* osso-sketch* osso-rss* out! 4.2M of rootfs back20:54
Luke-Jr>>> Installing (55 of 542) virtual/acl-0-r120:55
KotCzarnyone more positive side of slimming is fewer trash-apps in app menu20:56
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KotCzarny-rw-r--r--    1 root     root     23911920 Feb 19  2010 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive20:58
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KotCzarnyProlog is used on N900 to decide about audio output levels for speakers and audio out (see e.g. first paragraph of ). That sounds like a crazy idea, doesn't it? I wish I could meet a guy who decided "hey, using prolog for this would be a great idea"21:22
DocScrutinizer05KotCzarny: what the heck are you doing? osoo-notes for sure should have been optified and thus not relevant for rootfs21:28
KotCzarnyremoving apps i never use21:28
DocScrutinizer05just wha?21:28
KotCzarnypartly for checking how far i can go, partly because i never use them21:29
DocScrutinizer05nobody really interested in this21:29
DocScrutinizer051001 ways to fuck up your device21:30
KotCzarnysure, but reflash is quick and easy21:30
KotCzarnynot to mention you learn by breaking usually21:31
KotCzarny(i mean by fixing what you break)21:31
DocScrutinizer05so do that in private, i'd suggest. I for one had my share already21:31
KotCzarnyi didn't know this irc channel had such rules in place21:32
DocScrutinizer05there's no such rule in place. there's only a level of interest I have in certain topics21:33
KotCzarny#maemo == I ?21:33
DocScrutinizer05I didn't know the channel turned into 2how to brick your N900"21:33
KotCzarnyalways thought 'hacking' was 'doing things that aren't always safe'21:34
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PaliKotCzarny: for that stuff like policies, it really make sense to write rules in such "logical" language21:49
Paliit is easier to define policies and action based on know facts in prolog21:50
Palias in other laguages like C21:50
KotCzarnypali: nice to know, i have only heard about prolog, never actually seen it21:50
Paliswi prolog (used in N900) is doing some kind of SLD resolution to achieve or decide if predicate is truth or not21:51
Paliand this is part of language21:51
Paliyou just need to write rules21:52
Paliand prolog do all magic below21:52
Paliin other programming laguages you need to write how to solve such problem21:52
Paliin prolog you just write "description" of problem (not how to solve it)21:53
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