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| DocScrutinizer51 | am I right that we got 7 candidates for council? | 00:45 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer51 | communology is a surprising science | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ooh, if somebody feels like running for councilor, you got a few more minutes to post your self-nomination to maemo-community ML | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iirc | 00:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and if not, then leaving council had to decide how to go on, and that would result in "you got a few more minutes" anyway | 00:50 |
| rZr | /exec date -u | 00:50 |
| rZr | DocScrutinizer05, I should have wait last minute | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so if you feel like running for council since you have something to give, don"t be shy | 00:51 |
| rZr | i already accepted my nomination | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | rZr: I think you're a great candidate | 00:52 |
| rZr | since we were out of applicants | 00:52 |
| rZr | DocScrutinizer05, thx .. but I am unsure I will be as involved as I was | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you definitely have the needed dedication | 00:53 |
| rZr | we'll see | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you cant perform worse than me or even chemist during rcent term | 00:54 |
| rZr | you're still on irc :) | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I always been | 00:54 |
| rZr | the gitorious migration is a task for next council right ? | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | if next council wants to pick up that task, then prolly yes | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I dunno how much migration is needed | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | are you talking bout maemo.gitorious.org? | 00:57 |
| rZr | yes | 00:57 |
| rZr | probably meego will follow too | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | will simply migrate from maemo.gitorious.org to gitorius.org/maemo | 00:58 |
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| rZr | ok not that hard | 00:59 |
| rZr | we also backuped garage once to gitorious | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no more theming and skins, but then who needs that? | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | xes recently mirrored all gitorious sruff marmo related to our own servers | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so no worries about gitorious aiui | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | next council's main duty will be to stay alive and in control while HiFo (our cashier) will transform into a german e.V | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~dong | 01:05 |
| infobot | ding | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | plus there's still a huge heap of junk in maemo infra, karma borked, all sorts of cronjobs disabled and dysfunct if enabled. Next council needs to think about *what* to do regarding that, while techstaff might take responsibility on the *how* | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | generally we're terribly short of manpower in techstaff, will need sustained efforts of council to recruit more maintainers | 01:10 |
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| Humpelstilzchen | is the maemo infrastructure that complicated? | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | oh yes! | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | we have around a dozen VMs | 01:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and currently for example NO maintainer or simply mod for the MLs | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | xes recovered the password a few days ago | 01:18 |
| Humpelstilzchen | lol | 01:18 |
| bencoh | :] | 01:18 |
| bencoh | well at least it's still up&running | 01:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, all silently bitrotting | 01:18 |
| bencoh | I guess we have specific stuff and home-crafted scripts there ? | 01:18 |
| bencoh | aww :( | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yup | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lots of customizations | 01:19 |
| Humpelstilzchen | why was the password lost? Did someone forget it or was it stored at nokia hq? | 01:19 |
| bencoh | even for the buildbot ? | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | in wiki, auth, karma, whatnot | 01:19 |
| Humpelstilzchen | are the mods even necessary | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that been xfade (iirc) who gone pooof a 2 yers ago | 01:20 |
| Humpelstilzchen | I personally never cared about something like karma | 01:20 |
| rZr | do you use obs ? | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nope | 01:20 |
| rZr | ok that was at bottom of todo list ? :) | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cauldron and midgard | 01:21 |
| bencoh | ohmyplease no obs :D | 01:21 |
| rZr | bencoh, then dont vote for me :) | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | midgard-ONE | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | "d not even nemein, inventor of midgard, dared to migrate to midgard2 | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | abd* | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | meh | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and* | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (dare) thabks to all the customized stuff | 01:23 |
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| bencoh | rZr: ohwell I'm no one to tell since I'm not helping :) | 01:29 |
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| Sicelo | freemangordon: hope you remeber the x-server & easy-deb thing you were discussing with Snafu777. I' have tried 'everything' on my debian pc .. no luck. i'm on a lan, no ports closed at all. | 01:52 |
| Sicelo | in EasyDeb chroot, all i get is "No protocol specified. error: can't open display: 192.168.1.100:1" | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw I'm definitely not capableto find the most recent timetable/schedule for the elections. I end somewhere at http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_May_2014#Election_timetable | 01:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 hands out pitchforks and base clubs | 01:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *please* beat me, I must have a mental defect | 01:59 |
| honestly | DocScrutinizer05: for still volunteering as a steward to the maemo community? | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 02:01 |
| honestly | definitely a mental defect. | 02:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 <-- jackass | 02:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stupid ^^^ up there | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I still hope for schedule declaring me late and ruling out | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe I will even lose the elections, with some 7 competitors | 02:03 |
| honestly | you can always claim you're temporarily insane today because germany won the match versus algeria | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, I dunno who would vote for me, when I declare I have <30min per week for council | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that must have been it, right ;-.D | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rZr tricked me into volunteering ;-P | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, and I forgot: I got commercial interest in maemo. Maybe that disqualifies me?? pleeeease! | 02:06 |
| honestly | you're planning to get rich with neo900? ^^ | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | suuuure | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sell millions of devices and become a billionaire | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we already have >100 preorders ;-) | 02:10 |
| honestly | just make it fully android compatible >_> | 02:10 |
| honestly | I would preorder in a second if I could justify the expense :F | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? it is! | 02:11 |
| honestly | really? | 02:11 |
| honestly | all of the hardware? | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, why would it be incompatible to android?? | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're even considering to ship it with replicant | 02:11 |
| honestly | well, the n900 isn't really android-compatible | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr? | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too many buttons? | 02:12 |
| honestly | I thought that would transfer to the neo900 :D | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too little tivoization? | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, sorry, N900 ! rrrright, that's a bit of a problem maybe, because N900 doesn't know multitouch | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900, on the other hand.... | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 02:13 |
| honestly | I thought not all the drivers and firmware works with android | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm, I honestly dunno | 02:14 |
| honestly | I played around with android on my n900 a little bit | 02:14 |
| honestly | didn't get very far | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never touched android - literally (when my GF's phone doesn't count) | 02:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.replicant.us/2014/06/replicant-4-2-on-the-goldelico-gta04/ | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/#news µBlog | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually https://www.replicant.us/2014/06/replicant-4-2-on-the-goldelico-gta04/comment-page-1/#comment-1948791 | 02:16 |
| honestly | I have a samsung galaxy S2 that I just carry everywhere in my backpack | 02:16 |
| honestly | I never use it | 02:16 |
| honestly | it's for a university project and I'm the person assigned to making sure it doesn't get lost or stolen ^^ | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh my | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 02:17 |
| honestly | neo900 is based on gta04? | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, it's a synthesis, a chimera | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of GTA04, N900, and the ancestors of both: beagleboard and TI Zoom-II | 02:19 |
| honestly | hehe | 02:19 |
| honestly | cool (: | 02:19 |
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| * honestly notes down goldelico as a place to apply to once I'm done with my degree | 02:25 | |
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| xes | chem|st: since a few days i can see a slow down of talk.maemo.org pages since the page loading hangs waiting pixel.quantserve.com scripts. Could you make a check? | 02:35 |
| chem|st | xes: again? darn plugins 500 people request and noone ever uses, guess that is also part of tapatalk... will have a look 2morrow | 02:39 |
| xes | chem|st: thanks | 02:40 |
| chem|st | xes: I need to upgrade the forums the next days, when is a good time to catch you for snapshotting? | 02:41 |
| chem|st | I'd like to do it more or less live, only a few minutes downtime on the frontend if possible | 02:42 |
| xes | do you need a snapshot of the complete vm? | 02:42 |
| xes | is this | 02:43 |
| xes | a critical update? | 02:43 |
| xes | anyway, complete vm snapshot something more than just a few minutes | 02:46 |
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| xes | *requires | 02:46 |
| chem|st | xes: it is not that huge, is it? few minutes might be >15 | 02:48 |
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| chem|st | if nobody applied the security patches I uploaded then there is security patches and more security patches and an update | 02:49 |
| chem|st | I guess as we have all things backed up a quick db backup triggered should be enough (can I trigger that from the backend myself? never checked, warfare's domain right?) | 02:51 |
| chem|st | snapshot would just save alot of time if something goes south | 02:51 |
| chem|st | gtg to bed, read you 2morrow | 02:52 |
| xes | vm is not so big, probably a complete snapshot would require ~10 minutes. | 02:52 |
| chem|st | thats fine | 02:52 |
| chem|st | bbb | 02:52 |
| xes | good night | 02:52 |
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| Win7Mac | community awesomeness... we have some 6~8 nominees :O :) | 03:37 |
| Win7Mac | is it somewhere written in stone that nominations have to be posted to community mailing list? | 03:39 |
| Win7Mac | candidacy rather... | 03:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 03:53 |
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| Win7Mac | afaik, that is the case, but where is it written... ? | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when somewhere then in election rules on wiki | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's not there doesn't exist :-) | 03:55 |
| Win7Mac | then nope... | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/El | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process oops | 03:55 |
| Win7Mac | ...doesn't say so... | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: weird. Maybe it been a legacy rule every council chair put into election announcement in the past? I dunno | 04:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I would have bet a considerable asset that there been a rule that nominations *must* be done on community-ML | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since we had cases where candidates almost or even actually missed on that, and it got resolved by accepting infra downtime on ML as excuse | 04:04 |
| Win7Mac | hmm... | 04:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, we're past extended nomination now, so we're free to do "whatever we like2 | 04:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2014-06-30 Mon 23:50:20] <DocScrutinizer51> and if not, then leaving council had to decide how to go on, and that would result in "you got a few more minutes" anyway | 04:07 |
| Win7Mac | not really, there are... wait... 8 fully valid candidancies... | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if there were not, then... yeah, when one of them missed to announce on ML in time... | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but seems we got no binding such rule | 04:08 |
| Win7Mac | so dirkvl is out? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1431484#post1431484 | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm busy. Up to the other two of council to evaluate validity of candidates | 04:09 |
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| Win7Mac | aha... | 04:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's in line with the 2h/week I announced to be available for council work in this term | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and in the end that's agenuine duty of council chair | 04:21 |
| Win7Mac | aha | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | elaborate please | 04:22 |
| Win7Mac | and you seriously want to rerun? | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, I seriously don't *want* | 04:22 |
| Win7Mac | but you self-nominated... | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I however honestly announce what you get when you vote for me | 04:23 |
| Win7Mac | and that is... | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then it's up to the electorate, don't you think so? | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and _not_ up to you to judge | 04:24 |
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| Win7Mac | i do my best, watch and didn't judge so far | 04:25 |
| Win7Mac | but since you're at it, what do I get when I vote for you? | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | headache | 04:27 |
| Win7Mac | true ;) | 04:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this been a diagnosis particularly and specifically for you | 04:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I can even explain: it's just i like to share with the donor when I get a gift. wheter that's a cake, a bottle of vodka, or headache | 04:29 |
| Win7Mac | thought so, and all the others, when they vote for you, they get what? | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask them | 04:30 |
| Win7Mac | maybe two coucils again? | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe one of yourfingers up their rear? | 04:31 |
| Win7Mac | or your barefacedness up your arse? | 04:33 |
| Win7Mac | bye | 04:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or another 5h of bullshit talk? | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh good, he left | 04:33 |
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| Win7Mac | for further details please continue reading here: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-meeting-irclog/%23maemo-meeting.2014-06-12.log.html#t2014-06-12T21:21:19 | 04:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | God, this guy must really hate me. Anyway his problem | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not his employee | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he's free to vote whomever he likes, for council, right? | 05:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what he however is not free to do: try to get council unter control of HiFo or any e.V | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not what HiFo been established for, and neither did council ever plan to be a subordinate of HiFo | 06:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway when somebody tries to establish two councils here then that's Mr win7mac, by claiming there was a council now that has to obey rules he invented together with some other guys to found a e.V. that's supposed to become the new HiFo. That's incorrect, council never agreed on following any other rules than those on http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Election_process and http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council, and the referendum | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | was to fix an idiocy that happened in foundation of HiFo where HiFo insisted in an own council that's _not_ identical to maemo community council. So we elected two councils, made them identical personal, adapted the HiFo rules to be in line with community council rules, and then finally declared both councils were one now, and HiFo accepted that (and thus HiFo accepted to obey maemo community council rules, NOT council said "we are under | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rules of HiFo now") When now win7mac explains the successor e.V to inherit HiFo has a ruleset that's not compatible with that, then HE effectively rolls back situation to the times *before* HiFo accepted maemo community council as own council and made own rules in sync with those of maemo community council | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one thing id absolutely un indisputable: council runs council elections, and neither win7mac nor any other member of any HiFo or e.V. has a word in those elections and the rules they have to comply with. The whole election process is exclusively managed by and under rules of community council | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/ un // | 06:41 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: one thing id absolutelyindisputable: council runs council elections, and neither win7mac nor any other member of any HiFo or e.V. has a word in those elections and the rules they have to comply with. The whole election process is exclusively managed by an... | 06:41 |
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| Nokiabot | \topic | 08:44 |
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| kerio | wrong / | 08:52 |
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| antithesis | Does the n900 have a safe mode? | 10:38 |
| antithesis | I messed up my /etc/init.d/rcS and now it's in a reboot loop | 10:39 |
| antithesis | Well, it reboots if it's connected to my computer. It just shuts down otherwise | 10:43 |
| kerio | antithesis: do you have backupmenu installed? | 10:45 |
| antithesis | Not that I'm aware of, no | 10:45 |
| antithesis | kerio | 10:45 |
| kerio | then i think that you have to use rescueos | 10:45 |
| kerio | ~rescueos | 10:45 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 10:45 |
| kerio | literally the safest mode | 10:46 |
| int_ua | anyone still using Mappero? | 10:46 |
| int_ua | Looks like it's not saving tracks | 10:46 |
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| antithesis | kerio I can't even mount my filesystem at this point, so I don't think I can install that | 10:49 |
| kerio | perhaps you should read the README file | 10:49 |
| kerio | where it clearly states that it's loaded in ram via usb | 10:49 |
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| antithesis | kerio I don't understand how it works. Is flasher-3.5 a program I need to run on my PC? | 10:54 |
| kerio | yep | 10:54 |
| kerio | the same flasher that you use to... you know, flash | 10:54 |
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| antithesis | kerio I'm really struggling with this. Where am I supposed to get the initrd.img from? | 11:12 |
| kerio | rescueOS-1.1.img | 11:13 |
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| zGrr | moin :) | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~seen int_ua | 19:22 |
| infobot | int_ua <~quassel@ip-602f.proline.net.ua> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 8h 35m 36s ago, saying: 'Looks like it's not saving tracks'. | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | int_ua: if you read chanlog, please ping me ( DocScrutinizer05 ) in a /query | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or here in channel | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or is somebody else from .u around and willing to help with an .ua webshop? | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | .ua even | 19:31 |
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| Katajakasa | Hey! Woah, lots of people still interested in Maemo :P | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 22:41 |
| RiD | sup | 22:42 |
| Katajakasa | Was wondering, has anyone ever finished a working Lipo charger driver for N810 ? | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and even "a lot" of candidates for next council, meeting at #maemo-meeting in 20min | 22:42 |
| Katajakasa | I found a patch for it for 3.1.10 | 22:42 |
| Katajakasa | but it seems to be incomplete | 22:42 |
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| RiD | DocScrutinizer05 are "spectators" allowed in that channel? | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, much appreciated. We're doing those meetings for the community to talk to council | 22:43 |
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| M4rtinK | interesting, the "Europe" offline routing data file for Monav I've generated actually works :) | 22:48 |
| M4rtinK | Spain -> Poland, no problem :) | 22:49 |
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| M4rtinK | and it might even fit on FAT32 - the smallest file once the data pack is unpacked is 3.6 GB :) | 22:51 |
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| ShadowJK | Katajakasa, the N8x0 charging is very scary. | 22:56 |
| Katajakasa | ShadowJK: how so ? :/ | 22:56 |
| ShadowJK | It's mostly "on" or "off", the software must check that the attached power supply doesn't give too much current, the battery is used in part to limit the charging current and regulate it, if the software dies (which can happen with the original software too), the charger is stuck and you end up with bloated or exploded battery :D | 22:58 |
| Katajakasa | Well, i found this: https://dev.openwrt.org/browser/trunk/target/linux/omap24xx/patches-3.3/900-n810-battery-management.patch | 22:59 |
| Katajakasa | 3.3 patch doesn't work, but the old patch for 3.1 in the revision log DOES work. The problem with that is that it's missing Stage 2 of lipo charging, that is the constant voltage | 22:59 |
| Katajakasa | afaik it should feed the battery exactly 4.1 volts, and wait for current to go down to some level | 23:00 |
| Katajakasa | so i've been thinking about writing the missing stage 2 charger part | 23:00 |
| Katajakasa | If the driver is in kernel as a module, it should be harder to crash or kill :P | 23:01 |
| Katajakasa | The thing is, I'd really love to see a 100% working driver that i could run without needing to worry that my own code crashes and the battery explodes and takes my apartment with it in a fire :) | 23:02 |
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| ShadowJK | The code in the lipocharge.c doesn't correspond with that | 23:05 |
| Katajakasa | no, that patch is very much incomplete | 23:06 |
| Katajakasa | It only does stage 1 | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | right, and there's a break in there that makes it look like it'll do bad things | 23:06 |
| Katajakasa | It fills up the battery, and then leaves 100% charge on until battery explodes :P | 23:06 |
| Katajakasa | yeah | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | Stopping the charge at that poiint is also a valid strategy | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | For fresh batteries, it means you end up with 80-85% charge | 23:07 |
| Katajakasa | Yes, I made the function just return 1 for finished charging, and then check in charge start function that the voltage is low enough that it makes sense to start charging again | 23:07 |
| Katajakasa | it's working somehow | 23:07 |
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| Katajakasa | Still, I'm told that Lipo batteries don't like that :( | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | Don't like what? | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | brb | 23:08 |
| Katajakasa | not charging to full | 23:08 |
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| ShadowJK | That's not true. | 23:10 |
| Katajakasa | So I could just float the voltage eg. at around 4 volts, without doing damage ? | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | floating vs doing just CC, are different topics :-) | 23:11 |
| Katajakasa | blargh. I don't know batteries or electronics that well :P | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | afaict, the "floating" part of the code is missing anyways? | 23:11 |
| Katajakasa | afaik yes | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | So the easiest modification to this, would probably be to set current to 0 in the stage 2 part... | 23:12 |
| Katajakasa | But, i could for example just let the battery charge to full, then stop charge until it goes to some low level, then start charging again without killing the battery ? | 23:12 |
| Katajakasa | right | 23:12 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 23:12 |
| Katajakasa | okay, good | 23:13 |
| ShadowJK | though charge to full is missing right now | 23:13 |
| Katajakasa | Yeah, To charge to full, it needs to first do constant charging to around 4.1 volts | 23:13 |
| Katajakasa | and after that, it needs to keep the voltage there by managing the pwm | 23:13 |
| Katajakasa | and wait for charging current to go down to some % level ? | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | that is correct | 23:14 |
| Katajakasa | Also, somekind of temperature monitoring would probably be nice ... | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder when is voltage measured by this code, when the pwm is in the "on" or "off" part of the cycle? | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | (original driver measures both) | 23:15 |
| Katajakasa | I'm running the battery module right now, and it's giving me values for charging and discharging while in charger | 23:16 |
| Snafu777_ | OH NOES, HACKERS ATTACKING ME FROM 127.0.0.2! HELP ME PLEASE! OBAMA SAVE ME OH KING | 23:16 |
| Katajakasa | So i'm guessing that the driver just reads a value and doesn't care about the pwm cycle | 23:17 |
| Sicelo | Snafu777_: got your easy-deb 'project' from yesterday working? | 23:17 |
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| ShadowJK | The original driver will back off a bit, if the pwm on voltage gets too high, but will allow it to exceed top voltage a litlte bit | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | THere's funny thing that happens with a battery that has been stored empty for months, the pwm off voltage can be 3.4V. close to minimum voltage, PWM on voltage can be 4.5V or more, which causes the driver to panic (way too high!) and shutdown. The OS notices the driver shut down, and in turn panics, and reboots the device. | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | (of course, reboot doesn't solve anything, it just just boot-loops) | 23:21 |
| Katajakasa | Yeah, i noticed that one when i tried turning my N810 on for the first time in three years :P | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | My N810 will in general just randomly decide to bootloop even with full battery | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | my N800 never does that :-D | 23:22 |
| Katajakasa | Well, i slapped on a quick hack that tries to keep the voltage in stage to at around 4080 - 4120 mV, and either rises or lowers the pwn to keep the voltage correct | 23:22 |
| Katajakasa | seems to be working; the duty cycle keeps going down | 23:22 |
| Katajakasa | AND the battery has yet to explode | 23:22 |
| Katajakasa | ShadowJK: heh :P | 23:23 |
| ShadowJK | It's cumulative damage, it adds up.. The original algorithm, but mostly because of the limited hardware, also damages the batteries slightly, they degrade alot faster in N8x0 (and other nokia devices with same charging system) than in the N900 | 23:24 |
| ShadowJK | This is somewhat improved by using a weaker charger.. btw, the original tests the charger to make sure it doesn't provide too much current | 23:25 |
| Katajakasa | :/ | 23:26 |
| Katajakasa | Okay, this just got scary :D | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | Because the PWM is very slow (switches on/off about once per second), the battery will see the full current that the charger can provide | 23:26 |
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| Katajakasa | Yeah, maybe I should do my tests near the window, so i can throw the device out when it starts burning ... | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | Hold your breath if it smokes, it's toxic | 23:28 |
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| ShadowJK | I had original nokia batteries swell in N810, without messing with the driver :) | 23:28 |
| Katajakasa | Well, the charger just reached my arbitrary charging current limit, and stopped charging | 23:29 |
| Katajakasa | nothing burning or smoking ... which is nice. I expect it's not full either, though. | 23:29 |
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| Katajakasa | ShadowJK: That never happened to me, though I had to replace a couple batteries because they just wore out | 23:30 |
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| ShadowJK | Simplified, going outside the safe operating parameters of li-ion (and lipo) batteries causes chemical and metallurgical changes to the internals of the battery, the original system does go outside the safe operating parameters, but not enough that the battery is converted to bomb before it is so worn that user changes it :-) | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | irreversible changes* | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | btw, I don't leave my N8x0 on charger if I'm not at home.. | 23:33 |
| Katajakasa | Heh, well, looks like the BP-4L battery says it's rated for 4.2 volts max... So charging it to 4.1v probably provides enough safety margin :/ | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | Yes | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | there's also the PWM on/off ambiguity | 23:33 |
| Katajakasa | right :/ | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | the original driver keeps track of many many voltages :/ | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | I don't even know what all of them are | 23:34 |
| Katajakasa | >_< | 23:34 |
| Katajakasa | Alright, well. I just put the device to a metal container near the window :P | 23:35 |
| Katajakasa | ... somehow this conversation didn't make me feel very safe :P | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | "Instantaneous battery voltage", "Battery monitor check voltage", "double median filtered battery voltage", "Lowest TX-On voltage" (doesn't make sense on non-GSM), "TX-Off battery voltage" (only for GSM), "Batmon4 model voltage" (purely synthetic voltage, this is the software's best guess at what the battery's voltage would be if you removed it and measured it with a multimeter), "Open switch battery voltage", "Closed switch battery voltage" (During charge, th | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | ese two represent instantaneous voltage on the battery when the charger is connected vs not connected in the PWM cycle) | 23:37 |
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| M4rtinK | youtube has some nice videos of Li-Pol bateries burning & exploding :) | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | As for what lipo likes and doesn't like, keeping it at 4.2V constantly accelerates wear, 4.1V reduces it, and those who are really worried about wear limit themselves to 3.5-3.6V low, 4V high | 23:41 |
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| Katajakasa | ShadowJK: Yeah, i just made it stop charging at 4.1 and start charging at 3.8. Also does a short stage 2 charging at 4.1v. Seems to be workin fine so far; no explosions or anything... I think i'll just test it a few days and keep an eye on it before I relax :P | 23:44 |
| ShadowJK | never relax | 23:44 |
| Katajakasa | maybe I should keep the N810 under a webcam, so i can then upload it burning to youtube | 23:45 |
| Katajakasa | entertainment for M4rtinK ;) | 23:45 |
| ShadowJK | this is purely hypothetical, but for example: exceed tolerance by 1% every charging cycle, and it explodes on 100th cycle. Exceed tolerance by 5% every charging cycle, and it explodes on 20th cycle. :-) | 23:45 |
| Katajakasa | yeah | 23:46 |
| Katajakasa | This kind of reminds me of Mythbusters, and their "exploding water heater" episode | 23:46 |
| Katajakasa | "Did you know what was lurking in your basement !?" | 23:46 |
| Katajakasa | meh. looks like kernel 3.1.10 doesn't know how to do cpufreq for omap24xx :( | 23:48 |
| ShadowJK | :( | 23:48 |
| M4rtinK | boiler explosion is no laughing matter - well, for ships/trains :P | 23:49 |
| Katajakasa | WLAN, omapfb, touchscreen, keyboard and other keys work fine, though | 23:49 |
| Katajakasa | M4rtinK: Depends on if you're there when it happens or looking at it on youtube :D | 23:50 |
| ShadowJK | cpuidle thingy would be more crucial :D | 23:50 |
| Katajakasa | There is somesort of cpuidle framework in the kernel, but I didn't check yet if omap24xx has a driver | 23:51 |
| ShadowJK | It does more for battery life than anything else | 23:52 |
| Katajakasa | yeah | 23:52 |
| ShadowJK | Lots of people lock cpu to 400MHz and most of the time it doesn't make that much of a difference to battery life when idle | 23:52 |
| Katajakasa | I wonder if the cpu is at 333 or 400 by default :/ | 23:53 |
| Katajakasa | if it's 333, then I'll start missing cpufreq | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | Probably 333 | 23:53 |
| ShadowJK | Because audio is happier at 333 | 23:53 |
| Katajakasa | oh | 23:54 |
| Katajakasa | somekind of IO sync issue or something ... ? | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | The DSP runs at maximum frequency when CPU runs at 333 | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | when CPU runs at 400MHz, the DSP runs slower | 23:54 |
| Katajakasa | Ohh, okay, i see | 23:54 |
| ShadowJK | So in Diablo, whenever audio is active, CPU runs at 333MHz | 23:54 |
| Katajakasa | Right | 23:55 |
| ShadowJK | Also SD card bus frequency is coupled to CPU speed, but I don't remember the details | 23:56 |
| Katajakasa | Heh, I tried enabling USB => whole device just froze | 23:56 |
| ShadowJK | USB Host? Yeah it does that unless it's fresh boot :-) | 23:56 |
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| ShadowJK | in diablo even | 23:56 |
| Katajakasa | I just tried loading the usual module in client mode, or whatever it's called | 23:57 |
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| Katajakasa | OTG mode ? | 23:57 |
| Katajakasa | blergh, need to learn more about USB | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 23:57 |
| Katajakasa | I may have missed some USB patches too :P | 23:57 |
| ShadowJK | It probably tries to do a large memory allocation in kernel mode, and after some uptime there isn't enough contiguous physical free ram left | 23:58 |
| Katajakasa | Some nice person had a working patch set in OpenWRT at some point, so it CAN be made work. | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | happened in diablo | 23:58 |
| Katajakasa | right :/ | 23:58 |
| ShadowJK | Also, webcam access can cause similar issues | 23:58 |
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| ShadowJK | Though in that case it usually triggers an attempt to move all of RAM to swap until there's 128M free ram, at which point, if it gets there, it gives up :) | 23:59 |
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