IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2014-06-25

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merlin1991hm what happened to "Power Search" on
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merlin1991cssu is looking for people again:
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Humpelst1lzchenHow much do you pay? :P13:57
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sixwheeledbeastPower Search has been broken for a while. It's generally to do with what you are searching for I believe.14:20
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infobothmm... scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at, hosted by maemo now. Also at
merlin1991sixwheeledbeast: well for me it's just "This page will allow you to search the whole of and will allow you to filter the search results according to the different sections.  Loading"14:28
merlin1991the search doesn't even show up :D14:28
sixwheeledbeastah yes, that search. That has been broken the same amount of time as the other search bar that doesn't like searching for "n900"14:30
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DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: "screw M1.4 x 2.8"17:12
DocScrutinizer05or M1.4x5.0  or RF1.4x417:14
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sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: thanks17:34
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DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: don't fall for
DocScrutinizer05it's genuine but a rip-off basically17:54
DocScrutinizer05you can get 2k of them for the same price17:54
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: yes I would look at cpc.farnell or rs etc first.17:55
DocScrutinizer05check ebay, honestly17:55
DocScrutinizer05M1.4x5 is a good and precise search string and product spec17:55
DocScrutinizer05or whatever the particular screws you need17:56
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: Also while your about the friend I need the screws for has had an issue with his screen protector. it has "welded" it's self to the screen (never heard this before). Any tips on removal without damaging anything?18:01
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DocScrutinizer05slooooowly, no force, slightly increased temperature18:11
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid he tried to remove the better half of digitizer ;-)18:12
DocScrutinizer05often a patch of scotchtape in one corner can help lift the protector18:12
DocScrutinizer05sounds more reasonable than 8EUR18:15
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Sc0rpiusTMO does not resolve.18:25 does not resolve18:25
Sc0rpiusoh it was my DNS server :P18:25
Sc0rpiuslooking good now!18:25
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: I have not seen it yet. But I too think it's the digitizer18:27
sixwheeledbeastI was thinking if it is the protector is stuck then slowly with maybe a thin guitar pick. Didn't think of temperature however having a warm spell here so maybe leave in the sun for a bit.18:30
sixwheeledbeastAre there any good quality digitizer replacement links?18:31
DocScrutinizer05use scotchtape!18:31
DocScrutinizer05quality of replacements up to particular evaluation18:31
DocScrutinizer05most claim "ORIGINAL NOKIA"18:31
DocScrutinizer05some prolly are, some may be fake of inferior quality18:32
DocScrutinizer05e.g when they use whatever liquid they can find,instead of the silicon oil, for separator18:33
DocScrutinizer05prolly a lot of phantom shifts done on tzhose parts18:33
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DocScrutinizer05maybe even true knock offs / copies18:35
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DocScrutinizer05real fakes (non-functional) rather improbable18:36
sixwheeledbeastNever had to replace one yet, however, my worry would be spending time fitting a poor quality part.18:42
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DocScrutinizer05quality check: connect resistance-meter to upper and lower plane, check for ope-circuit aka infinite-ohms. then make sure digitizer makes contact when you *slightly* touch it with a feather or the like19:06
DocScrutinizer05there are only 4 pins on connector of the digitizer, find two of them who are usually not connected19:07
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DocScrutinizer05on slightest touch, the resistance has to change from infinite to some 100..1000Ohms19:08
DocScrutinizer05more subtly quality issues not detected that way, but you will find out after installing only19:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: wait, the digitizer is supposed to be *that* sensitive? :o19:09
DocScrutinizer05I can hardly wipe of dust flakes with finger, and I'm not an elephant19:10
DocScrutinizer05it's almost impossible to touch a good new N900 digitizer with your finger without already making a touch event19:11
DocScrutinizer05for sure a sheet of paper touching digitizer with the corner should be able to create a touch even when done right19:12
DocScrutinizer05of course the separator oil might age and get more viscous over the years19:13
DocScrutinizer05actually meanwhile my daily N900 needs some 20g orso on a pinpoint touch19:14
DocScrutinizer05also depends a bit on whether you touch at edge or on center of digitizer19:15
DocScrutinizer05edge is harder19:15
DocScrutinizer05still woking with a standard sheet of paper corner19:17
DocScrutinizer05though it's a tad hard and needs several tries now19:17
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DocScrutinizer05fold the paper once and for sure you get any touch you want, easily19:18
DocScrutinizer05a standard BT USB dongle is a itsy bit too few weight to make it trigger19:19
* DocScrutinizer05 will test witl coins of well known currency later on19:20
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DocScrutinizer05(coins) 2EUR is close to the edge, damn close but not entitely sufficinet21:46
DocScrutinizer05probably the 2€ coin is not "pinpointed" enough even on the edge, thus it takes a tad more this way21:54
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Snafu777Well, I thought about fuckin' some chickens before, eh? If you want to have a good time and you need some pussy, you can (motions with his hands) cut that chicken's head off, stick yo' dick in the ass of that chicken, and that damn chicken'll go crazy on your ass and go "Caaaaah".22:35
bencohyeah ..... right.22:36
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bencoh/clear /clear /clear22:37
ecc3g/clear /opaque /clear /fill22:37
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RiDSnafu777 ._.22:47
dos1DocScrutinizer05: so you managed to get xchat behaving properly on switching 3g/wifi connections?22:48
Snafu777RiD: =)22:49
RiDhey, any easy way (without reflashing) to check if my FM transmitter is hardware-broken?22:49
RiDit doesn't seem to work.22:50
kerioa radio22:51
RiDyeah, that's how i know it doesn't work22:52
RiDwhat i want to be sure of, if its a software mess up or hardware22:53
RiDbut at the same time, i'm too lazy to reflash22:53
RiD(i have multiboot set up and all that :\ - yeah kill me for not using uboot too!)22:53
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keriomultiboot is actively harmful22:54
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RiDI know. Uboot has issues with what I want to do, though. Tried it a couple times, never got it to work 100%22:55
bencohwhat do you actually want to do ?22:55
RiDandroid + maemo22:55
bencoh(that wont work with uboot ?)22:55
bencohyou really use android on n900 ?22:56
RiDnever got android hardware accel to work with uboot, or charging22:56
RiDfor an application or two, yes22:56
bencohoh, so people actually use it22:56
RiDvery few I guess :|22:56
RiDI still prefer maemo, but really not much choice eh22:56
RiDand i don't really want to jump into a more powerful phone, while at the same time more garbage22:57
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RiDI'd rather handle the n900 "slowness" than jump into android right now. Not many alternatives to android either22:57
RiD5" display, open keyboard, bam, useless screen22:58
RiDannoys the hell out of me22:58
* Snafu777 uses his n900 as a computer in his pocket22:58
Snafu777Hey DocScrutinizer05, maybe you can answer this or anyone else for that matter22:58
Humpelst1lzchenSnafu777: who doesn't22:58
Snafu777I've got easy debian chroot installed22:59
Snafu777and I'm using debian-m5-v3e.img.ext222:59
DocScrutinizer05dos1: (xchat) sure22:59
Snafu777I've been apt-get purging crap on it to save space22:59
Snafu777but the darn filesize doesnt ever shrink22:59
Snafu777I've purged over 700 mb from the chroot22:59
dos1DocScrutinizer05: was that lagometer option enough or you found something else?22:59
Snafu777yet the debian-m5-v3e.img.ext2 filesize is the exact same22:59
Humpelst1lzchenSnafu777: is that an image?23:00
bencohit wont shrink23:00
Snafu777Will it expand then?23:00
Snafu777Because that's why i wanted to remove stuff23:00
DocScrutinizer05Snafu777: moderator warning, watch speech23:00
Snafu777so that i could add stuff without expanding too much23:00
Snafu777K DocScrutinizer0523:00
Snafu777Sorry =/  Twas a joke =)23:00
Snafu777And yer referring to my chicken thing right?23:01
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: lagometer did it23:01
Snafu777bencoh: Why will it not shrink?  And can it expand if i add to it?23:01
Snafu777And if not, then where does the stuff I add to it go??23:02
Snafu777It's mind boggling23:02
dos1Snafu777: it is a filesystem image23:02
dos1Snafu777: it's like a disk partition - it doesn't shrink when you delete files on its filesystem23:02
Snafu777Does it expand if u add?23:03
Snafu777without tias involved23:03
dos1does disk partition do?23:03
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DocScrutinizer05when it's an image file, your only chance is to create a second smaller img file and mount it like first one and copy everything from first to new smaller img23:05
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Snafu777Ok, but can it grow in size?23:06
Snafu777That's my concern23:06
Snafu777Because that was my point for removing stuff i didn't use23:06
Snafu777And, with that thought in mind23:06
Snafu777If i purge 500mb, and then I add back in 400mb worth of stuff, it shouldnt expand, correct?23:07
DocScrutinizer05only grows when you tell it to23:07
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Snafu777Ok...., So it can expand, but not shrink23:07
DocScrutinizer05depends on the particular solution you use. Some auto-grow23:07
dos1well, you can shrink img, but you have to resize it manually23:08
Snafu777Well, I'm using the stock apt-get easydebianchroot thing23:08
DocScrutinizer05some can grow when you use a tool to extend them23:08
DocScrutinizer05some cannot change size at all after creation23:08
DocScrutinizer05_none_ shrinks23:08
Snafu777I guess what I'm getting at is this:  I originally added stuff to it, but from ls -l the size did not change on the image, even after I unmounted it23:08
Snafu777So where did the added stuff go?23:08
dos1it's ext3 or 4 afaik23:08
M4rtinKI'll just add that if you use thin provisioning it can indeed shrink :)23:09
DocScrutinizer05ok, you da master :-)23:09
M4rtinKor to be more exact the thin provisioned LV returns the blocks back to the pool VG23:09
M4rtinKwhen you delete stuff23:09
DocScrutinizer05never recently looked into that stuff, so nevermind what i toldya23:10
Snafu777So does anyone here use the easy debian chroot?23:10
M4rtinKbut yeah, not really applicable if you don't use LVM :)23:10
dos1DocScrutinizer05: resize2fs should shrink fs image file just fine23:10
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: that's LVM?23:10
M4rtinKLogical Volume Manager23:10
dos1that's a ext image file mounted with loop23:10
dos1like mount -o loop debian.ext3 /mnt/debian23:11
DocScrutinizer05ext img doesn't sound like LVM23:11
M4rtinKsits between physical partitions and filesystem23:11
dos1yes, it's completely unrelated to LVM23:11
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DocScrutinizer05or rather, loopmount doesn't sound like LVM23:12
dos1Snafu777: you can use resize2fs on *unmounted* image to adjust its size23:12
DocScrutinizer05that's the "you tell it to" variant23:12
Snafu777Alright, image resizing aside, I could honestly care less about shrinking the actual filesize of the image.  What I am trying to figure out is if I purge 500mb from the image, can I add 500mb without expanding the size of the image23:12
Snafu777Since the repos for maemo are so crazy, I figured i'd go with debian23:13
M4rtinKyeah, I'm just saying that there are some scenarios (not directly related to loop mount) where you get space "back" if you delete stuff on a filesystem23:13
Snafu777The filesystem is "sane" at least23:13
dos1Snafu777: well, if you purge 500mb from ext3 partition on your PC, can you add 500mb without expanding your harddrive? :P23:13
DocScrutinizer05sure, what gets deleted can get added as well23:13
bencohwhich reminds me ... no one runs lvm on n900 ?23:13
Snafu777So then riddle me this23:13
Snafu777Without purging anything23:14
Snafu777I added to the image23:14
M4rtinKbencoh: don't know about anyone23:14
Snafu777yet the size didnt grow23:14
Snafu777and NOTHING else on the entire n900 partitions changed in size23:14
bencohI think kp has no lvm support23:14
M4rtinKbencoh: on the other hand the HP TouchPad uses LVM :)23:14
dos1Snafu777: size is *constant*!23:14
Snafu777So where the heck did the added files go?23:14
M4rtinKbencoh: as presumably other WebOS devices did23:14
bencohM4rtinK: lvm is love :)23:14
DocScrutinizer05your image is like a virtual disk23:14
bencohSnafu777: it will not shrink, ever :)23:14
M4rtinKbencoh: indeed! :)23:14
dos1Snafu777: if you remove 500mb from inside filesystem, the file with it does not shrink (unless you run resize2fs on it)23:14
Snafu777So you are saying when I chroot into it, I should issue df to see how much I have on /23:14
Snafu777So it's like a fixed little usb thumbdrive so to speak23:15
dos1you don't even need chrooting for that, just mounting it will do23:15
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bencohSnafu777: somehow23:15
bencohwell, kindof23:15
Snafu777but the concept is to chroot so u have an OS within the n900 OS23:15
Snafu777alright, i'm decompressing it right now to chroot into it23:16
Snafu777I'll do a df and see what is available23:16
Snafu777I think I understand now23:16
DocScrutinizer05chroot, use df -h, see how much of your 42.911GB image space got used23:16
Snafu777THANK you for the patience =)23:16
DocScrutinizer05do a ls -l 42.911GB.image   to notice it never chages size23:17
Snafu777That's what boggled me DocScrutinizer05 =)  But now after listen to ya'll it has clicked i do believe23:17
bencohchicken enlightnment23:17
Snafu777The whole reasoning behind wanting to know is so that I can use the debian environment for things that just "dont" work in maemo23:18
Snafu777Other people try to run different OS's on the n900 and whatnot23:18
Snafu777screw all that23:18
DocScrutinizer05easydeb FTW23:18
Snafu777Yes =)23:18
dos1beware that you will be limited by old kernel23:18
Snafu777That's ok by me23:18
Snafu777It's a starting pt23:18
dos1glibc in newest debian won't work with maemo kernel23:19
Snafu777So my idea of doing ./configure && make to create a binary on the chroot23:19
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders qemu on fremantle23:19
Snafu777wont port over to maemo?23:19
Snafu777Because that was the plan23:19
DocScrutinizer05with win7 inside ;-P23:19
dos1so for easydebian you're limited to wheezy(?)23:19
Snafu777squeeze as far as i can tell23:19
bencohDocScrutinizer05: *nope*nope* :–23:19
Snafu777its got sid squeeze and lenny in the sources23:19
Snafu777I killed off all non squeeze ones23:20
dos1sid for sure won't work23:20
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bencohdos1: until we get a brand new mainline kernel with phone functions :°23:20
bencohwhat's missing btw ?23:21
DocScrutinizer05the phone functions?23:21
bencohright, but is it just about code merge or rewriting driver ?23:21
DocScrutinizer05plus a number of other things, I heard cam doesn't work, audio also a construction site23:21
bencohI thought isi driver was enough for phone functions23:22
bencoh(at least for kernel space)23:22
DocScrutinizer05prolly it is23:22
Snafu777So will my idea for chrooting into debian, doing whatever to create a binary, and copying the binary back to my maemo partition, it wont work?23:22
dos1it's also about fremantle closed parts having lots of old-kernel specific cruft hardcoded23:22
DocScrutinizer05unless you want audio in your phonecall23:22
M4rtinKoh, nice!
bencohDocScrutinizer05: haha23:22
dos1so you have to workaround it with LD_PRELOAD stubs etc.23:22
bencohwhat's missing for audio then ?23:22
bencohdos1: eww23:22
M4rtinKlooks like since kernel 3.2 the loopback backing file _should_ shrink if stuff is deleted from the loppback device23:23
DocScrutinizer05you need the old kernel API (/sys /proc /dev) for the blobs (dialer et al) to work23:23
M4rtinKas long as the FS supports trim23:23
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DocScrutinizer05Snafu777: won't work usually23:25
DocScrutinizer05except for some basic cmdline stuff23:25
Snafu777That sucks =)  So much for "hacking" it together23:25
bencohM4rtinK: even with non-sparse image files ?23:25
dos1boot debian *instead* of maemo then :D23:25
bencohdos1: haha23:26
DocScrutinizer05a ddate might just work fine ;-)23:26
Snafu777The whole lack of a phone is why i dont23:26
DocScrutinizer05cmd: Today is Sweetmorn, the 30th day of Confusion in the YOLD 318023:26
dos1after spending some time on it you could get working phone functionality on plain debian23:26
dos1with FSO for instance23:26
Snafu777But that knowledge is limited to those who blog about it23:26
Snafu777Which is nill....23:26
bencohor ofono (have a look at nemo)23:26
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Snafu777I'd love to have my phone have 1 partition and 1 partition only23:27
Snafu777THAT would be superb23:27
bencohpita though23:27
dos1but then you become maintainer of your own phone distro, which has both upsides and downsides :)23:27
Snafu777None of this optimizing nonsense23:27
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bencohdos1: I've always wished I could maintain a working openembedded tree for n900 (with phone/sms) ... but .... meh :)23:28
dos1bencoh: there was SHR working on N900 at some point of time23:28
bencohphone included ?23:28
dos1sadly, latest images didn't boot for me and I didn't have time to investigate why23:28
bencohI think FSO missed this part23:28
dos1yes, phone included23:28
dos1just not so stable yet ;)23:29
dos1there is ISI modem plugin in fsogsmd23:29
bencohdo you remember at which point in time ?23:29
dos1oh, a few years ago?23:29
M4rtinKbencoh: not sure, probably should be sparse23:30
dos1when there was still some development on SHR/FSO@N90023:30
M4rtinKBTW, I would recommend everybody to see what nice features have been coming to LVM & device mapper recently :)23:30
bencohI guess isnt up to date then23:30
M4rtinKreally nice stuff :)23:31
bencohM4rtinK: I cant get nicer than it is .... can it ? :)23:31
M4rtinKlike LVM cache (bcache/hybrid drive alternative) or the upcoming compression/block order targets for DM23:31
M4rtinKit can! :)23:31
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M4rtinKIMHO it is basically becoming a UNIXy modular BTRFS that is based on proved tech so you can actually deploy it for serious stuff :)23:32
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* Sicelo wonders why Android still insists on a vm/runtime configuration23:55
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Siceloit makes sense to drop Dalvik, but didn't expect that it would be replaced by just a more 'fancy' brother, ART23:57

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