IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2014-01-23

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DocScrutinizer05loosely related (to maemo):
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sixwheeledbeastI believe FIQ is correct. garage, bugzilla, wiki, tmo are separate accounts because they all run on different things.00:50
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DocScrutinizer05yes, maybe x-fade stopped the SSO project/effort01:07
DocScrutinizer05anyway it would be a major PITA to add it while running. How to handle all the existing accounts?01:08
DocScrutinizer05same username, differnet passwords? UGH!01:09
DocScrutinizer05different* even01:09
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sixwheeledbeastI don't disagree01:16
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r00t|eeepcinstall libc update via apt-get => time for re-flashing...01:37
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MaxdamantusHmm .. so the N900 apparently has a magnet mechanism to detect whether the back cover is on, to determine availability of the SD card.01:56
Maxdamantusdoes that mean if you have the SD card mounted, the block device will disappear when you open the cover?01:57
Maxdamantus(resulting in IO errors or something)01:57
Maxdamantusor is it software-controlled, so the OS normally reacts to the signal by unmounting the filesystem?01:58
Maxdamantusactually, the block device wouldn't disappear if it's mounted .. it would just result in IO errors, if the mechanism isn't software-controlled.02:00
r00t|eeepcit's not magnetic i think, but a light reflection thing, shared with the lens cover?02:00
r00t|eeepcand, it triggers a script that umounts the card02:00
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r00t|eeepcjust as is done when you connect as usb-storage02:01
MaxdamantusOkay, so you can presumably just remove that functionality if you didn't want to use the SD card as something you'd normally remove at will.02:02
r00t|eeepcactually what would be the point of a non software-controlled mechanism that disconnects the card when the cover is open? might aswell just wait for the user to disconnect the card by pulling it out02:03
MaxdamantusDunno. Maybe if the slot were fiddly and it were likely that the card would be powered off and on rapidly while being inserted.02:05
Maxdamantusbut even in that case, there are probably better ways to handle it.02:06
Maxdamantusseems to be a magnet.02:08
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int_uaPLEASE HELP! My life could depend on it02:45
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DocScrutinizer05rmmod adp1653  -- watch out, may break camera!03:35
MaxdamantusThough he left.03:35
DocScrutinizer05use carton and chewing gum, or black sticky tape! cover the LED "lens" window03:36
DocScrutinizer05yes, but he might check chanlog03:36
DocScrutinizer05I guess it's a bit of trouble to stay online all the time while in a civil war03:36
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DocScrutinizer05Kiev might become the new Tien nan men square03:37
DocScrutinizer05this night03:37
Maxdamantustbh, in that situation, I'd probably just shortcircuit the LED with solder.03:38
DocScrutinizer05with solder03:38
Maxdamantusthough I don't know how difficult that is; I don't have a device yet.03:38
DocScrutinizer05it's for sure too difficult to do it in the street, while everybody trowing rocks and stones and smash stuff around you03:39
DocScrutinizer05I just hope he'll survive03:40
Maxdamantusin that case, I'd at least remove the module from the filesystem and reboot.03:40
DocScrutinizer05and the revolution will survive and conquer03:40
DocScrutinizer05rmmod might break camera03:40
DocScrutinizer05I had no time to check03:41
DocScrutinizer05no, but at least for two boots, plus editing03:41
Maxdamantusor just lose access to it, because it's also the actual camera driver03:41
Maxdamantusah, not the camera driver, but might control the camera in some way.03:41
DocScrutinizer05the cam-ui app or v4l2 might blow chunks when flashlight not available in /sys or /dev03:42
* DocScrutinizer05 moves over to TV, check NTV and CNN etc03:44
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DocScrutinizer05:-S zilch03:51
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DocScrutinizer05  hmm04:18
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MaxdamantusAre all physical keys on the N900 ones the software sees?09:37
Maxdamantusso running `xev` should show a keycode for each one?09:38
Maxdamantus(as opposed to what happens on a lot of laptop keyboards, where the `fn` button modifies what keys are sent and is not itself seen)09:38
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DocScrutinizer05that depends, either side09:43
Maxdamantuseither side?09:44
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, on laptop as well09:44
MaxdamantusWell, pretty much all laptops have a special fn key.09:44
DocScrutinizer05on N900 all kbd keys and the volume +/- keys are genuine "keys", with keycode and all09:44
Maxdamantusa lot of them also use it as speciial modifier the OS doesn't see.09:44
DocScrutinizer05the power and cam are buttons09:45
Maxdamantus(eg, as a numpad that overlays iopjklbnm or something.09:45
DocScrutinizer05well, that's highly depending on laptop hardware09:45
MaxdamantusYeah, as I said, pretty much all of them have the `fn` key .. probably most of them have at least a few such uses as modifiers for normal keys, which aren't seen by the software.09:46
DocScrutinizer05but yes, many laptops process this sort of stuff in the keyboard MCU09:47
Maxdamantusmy Aspire One uses `fn` for home/end/pgup/pgdown09:47
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Maxdamantusand it's not up to the OS to figure out that fn+up = home .. the keyboard sends the normal keycode for home over its PS/2 interface.09:48
Maxdamantuser, fn+pgup = home09:48
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Maxdamantuswhere it could, if it weren't for the screen brightness controls, which are independent of the OS, have just been another key that OSes treated as modifiers when configured properly.09:50
Maxdamantus(and other similar things, like enable/disable touchpad, switch display output, ..)09:50
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r00t_is this still around somewhere?
r00t_(n900 recovery system to be loaded into ram via flasher)11:36
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natsukaofor noia 770 the datasheets:
natsukaoand much more on
natsukaofor nokia 770 the datasheets:
natsukaoso anyone is free to open it and to watch how is did it, or to hack it12:21
natsukaohappy hacking12:21
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natsukaois there a way tro charge the battery of nokia 770 with the usb ?12:24
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TTilussshing in my n900 with key auth is not working12:50
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TTilusssh -vvv user@nokikana gives
MaxdamantusHow did you try setting it up?12:53
TTilusim moving my stuff over to "new" device, previous stopped charging12:55
TTilusnew device is freshly flashed and working12:55
TTilusinstalled openssh and copied /home/user/.ssh over from the old one12:55
TTiluspw authenticated login works12:56
Maxdamantusand you can't ssh out from the new phone?12:56
Maxdamantus(the issue isn't sshing into it?)12:56
TTilusand i can ssh both in and out12:56
Maxdamantusin will require you set it up again on the machine you want to connect from.12:57
TTilusonly inbound key auth  fails12:57
Maxdamantusunless you copied the keys from sshd itself12:57
Maxdamantuswhich will be in /etc somewhere.12:57
MaxdamantusI suspect it'll work if you just copy /etc/ssh from the old device to the new one and restart sshd.12:57
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TTilusuh oh, why would i need the host key of old n900?12:58
TTilusor do you mean copying over the conf?12:59
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MaxdamantusHmm .. dunno, maybe it shouldn't.13:00
TTilusdoes n900 openssh server log somewhere?13:00
TTilusit might provide some clue13:00
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TTilusdon't really know what was up, but setting password for user made key auth work :D13:05
natsukaoif i upload a shell script in my e-mail, and i try to send it, whe trhe nokia will try to download it, it will be opened as a file text that a shell script, how to solve this problem ?13:05
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TTiluswhat would you want it to do?  (i.e. what's the problem)13:09
r00t|d430natsukao: you expect the email client to _execute_ the script when you open it?13:09
natsukaoi upload the shell script in the email13:09
Ashley`<r00t|d430> natsukao: you expect the email client to _execute_ the script when you open it?13:09
Ashley`I dont think it'd be good behavior :P13:10
natsukaothen i downloaded with nokia 770, but i don't see the shell script but the source code13:10
r00t|d430ashley: ask microsoft ;)13:10
Ashley`r00t|d430, :D13:10
r00t|d430natsukao: with a shell script, there is no difference between the script or it's source...13:10
TTilusnatsukao: shell script _is_ a text file13:10
TTilusnatsukao: do you want to run it on your 770?13:11
natsukaohow to start a shell script on shell ?13:11
natsukaoyes, correct13:11
r00t|d430sh /path/to/file.sh13:11
r00t|d430(or chmod +x and without 'sh')13:11
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natsukaocorrect, now works13:17
natsukaowhen i uploaded the shell script the proprieties were changed from a simple file text in *.html13:18
natsukaoand so chmod +x could not works, then i found this little error, i removed *.html and then i did chmod +x namefile ad pushed the key enter13:19
natsukaothen sh wargames13:20
r00t|d430the filename (or extension) is irrelevant, you can execute it even when it's named .html13:22
r00t|d430as long as the content wasn't actually html-formatted13:22
natsukaoit is only a shell script
r00t|d430trying to execute an html file as a script usually creates lots of junk files, due to all the redirection symbols ;)13:23
natsukaobut i nver saved as *.html it was changed from such as from gmail13:24
r00t|d430who cares, really?13:25
natsukaoi got a little problem with nokia 770, i an't insert MMC card13:25
natsukaoso for me was necessary to upload from the laptop and to download from the nokia 77013:26
r00t|d430you mean, it's not detected when you insert it?13:26
natsukaonokia 770, can't works without mmc card13:26
r00t|d430why not juse use scp or obex or something?13:26
natsukaono, it is not that the problem, the fact is not that does not close13:26
natsukaoand so it means, to left it 1 month to the nokia, only for this stupid thing,13:27
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r00t|d430why is this not on REAL recovery mode for n900, without requiring a bootable rootfs...
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Ashley`I reflashed my n90015:26
Ashley`updated, installed cssu-testing15:26
Ashley`installed u-boot (first time)15:27
Ashley`(u-boot-flasher package)15:27
Ashley`and kernel-cssu-bootimg15:27
Ashley`and when I boot my n900 and select cssu kernel (or default one)15:27
Ashley`it loads the kernel, etc etc, then it says "starting kernel", and after few-fewteen (fewteen xD) seconds it turns off15:28
Ashley`i can reflash only kernel from flasher-3.5, and it boots normally15:28
Ashley`what did I do wrong?15:28
TTilusis updating time from gsm network supposed to work with n900?15:29
TTilusas far as i remember my previous n900 had sync working15:30
r00t|d430TTilus: never worked for me with any carrier15:30
r00t|d430or any phone for that matter15:30
TTilusso ntpd it is then...15:30
Ashley`It works for me I think15:30
Ashley`Poland, Orange15:30
Ashley`(but with latest cssu-t)15:31
TTilusok, maybe ntpd only after upgrading to cssu, which im about to do15:32
r00t|d430ashley: what you did wrong: you are using a system that provides no diagnostic messages during boot...15:32
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Ashley`r00t|d430, what can I do? is there any flag or something for "debug mode"?15:55
r00t|d430ashley: i don't know...15:56
r00t|d430ashley: serial console, good luck ;)15:57
KhertanAtworkTTilus, was working for me with orange and free, not with SFR16:09
Ashley`I guess u-boot is not for me :f16:09
KhertanAtwork... depends on carrier ... some didn't respect gsm protocol16:09
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Ashley`Is there any alternative to u-boot?16:37
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TTilusKhertanAtwork: ok, good to know16:52
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hxkafreemangordon: Hello17:57
hxkafreemangordon: How SR will work if one enables VDD1 but not VDD2?17:57
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freemangordonhxka: VDD2 doesn't get controlled by SR :)18:29
freemangordonVDD2 is L3 interconnect IIRC18:29
freemangordonvoltage that is18:29
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hxkaSo it's useless then?18:31
freemangordonhxka: hmm? why is that?18:32
Ashley`I downloaded pali's kernel pack with pr1.3 kernel with framebuffer18:32
freemangordonif you enable it, the VDD2 lotage is controlled18:33
Ashley`and I can see why it doesn't work with u-boot18:33
freemangordonhxka: I am not sure I get you right18:33
hxkafreemangordon: I meant it's useless to enable only VDD118:33
freemangordonno, why? VDD1 is MPU/DSP voltage18:34
freemangordonbut ofc it is better to have both enabled18:34
hxkaOh, thanks18:34
hxkaAnother question: is there any benefit in lowering the voltages in k-p-s profile if both VDD1 and VDD2 are enabled anyway?18:35
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hxkaAlso, I reported earlier that my N900 is unstable on any frequency above 600 MHz. That turned out to be not true: it's only unstable if VDD2 is enabled.18:41
Ashley`I think that I "hm" too much xD18:42
sixwheeledbeastMaxdamantus: the back cover does have a magnet to control mounting and unmounting /media/mmc118:44
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sixwheeledbeasthxka: I believe you shouldn't adjust voltages if using SR, this will make the device unstable. Either use SR or "legacy mode" like ideal, starving etc... not both.18:49
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freemangordonhxka: you should not touch the voltages when using SR18:50
hxkafreemangordon: Thanks, that's what I thought18:50
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freemangordonhxka: BTW I did not fix SR VDD2 calibrations the unlike those for VDD1, maybe this is the reason18:51
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hxkafreemangordon: Can I help somehow with this?18:51
freemangordonhxka: yep, just a minute to check something18:52
freemangordoncould you gimme the output of "cat /sys/power/efuse_vdd2"18:52
Gatta_NegraACTION gives freemangordon18:52
freemangordonGatta_Negra: hi!18:53
freemangordonhow's your hal sensor?18:53
Ashley` <-- this is what I get when I boot a kernel from u-boot18:53
keriowhich kernel is this?18:54
Ashley`after a few seconds device turn's off18:54
Ashley`stock with framebuffer18:54
Ashley`from pali's pack18:54
freemangordonashley: do you pass atags from u-boot to the kernel?18:54
Ashley`from there18:54
freemangordonhxka: did you see ^^^ about /sys/... ?18:55
keriopali's not online so idk18:55
Ashley`freemangordon, I don't know, I use bootmenu.d/*.item from this pack18:55
kerioask freemangordon, he's usually our surrogate Pali18:55
Ashley`there is "ITEM_REUSEATAGS="1"" in there18:56
freemangordonhmm, weird18:56
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Ashley`I accidendaly parted18:56
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freemangordonAshley`: : wait, you should use u-boot from repos afaik18:57
Ashley`u-boot is from repos18:57
Ashley`I just got kernel with framebuffer consolle from that thread, to see what's going on18:57
Gatta_Negrafreemangordon, no progress18:57
freemangordonGatta_Negra: :(18:58
freemangordonwhy is that?18:58
Gatta_Negrai am having construction works and repair works at the apartment so i did not have any time to deal with it18:58
freemangordonoh, I see18:58
Gatta_Negrai am even moving back to htc until better times18:58
freemangordonoh, htc is better?18:58
Gatta_Negrano, just faster18:58
Gatta_Negra and i can use it for work18:58
Gatta_Negra as otherwise i have to carry two phones18:59
Gatta_Negrabut i love my n900 and i will keep it for future experiments18:59
freemangordonkerio: could you give the output from "cat /sys/power/efuse_vdd2"18:59
Gatta_Negrait can work without sim card also18:59
keriofreemangordon: k one sec19:00
freemangordonGatta_Negra: what is that HTC does but n900 doesn't?  out of curiosity19:00
keriofreemangordon: 009aceef 009a94b3 00aac69519:00
freemangordonhxka: kerio: yeah, the same shit like with VDD1 calibrations :(19:02
freemangordonthe third calibration value is one and the same on every device19:02
keriook whatevs19:03
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freemangordonwell, I guess I should make another patch19:03
Ashley`freemangordon, any idea? (with that u-boot) :/19:06
freemangordonhmm, no. so you can't boot any kernel with u-boot installed?19:07
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Ashley`kernel-power kernel-cssu, nokia kernel19:09
Ashley`it hangs up at "starting kernel..." and shut's down after a few seconds19:10
Ashley`(with that kernel with framebuffer it shows kernel panic, and shuts down after few seconds)19:10
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freemangordonAshley`: the only thing I can think of is that your rootfs is screwed somehow.19:13
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freemangordonAshley`: you you somehow managed to install some wrong version of u-boot19:14
freemangordon*or* you19:14
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Ashley`I've flashed that rootfs today (with emmc ofc)19:16
Ashley`and it boots and works fine without u-boot19:16
Ashley`I've tried uboot from extras and extras-devel (aren't they the same version?)19:17
freemangordonAshley`: what HW revision is your device?19:17
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freemangordonsame as mine19:19
Ashley`hi, dos11 :)19:19
freemangordonAshley`: I'm afraid you'll have to wait for Pali to appear19:20
Ashley`oh, okay. Thanks :)19:21
Ashley`freemangordon, what's his nickname here? (so my xchat can notify me when he come)19:22
freemangordonits Pali, but he is MIA19:22
Ashley`What does that mean? :s19:23
hxkaMissing In Action19:24
freemangordonyeah, his laptop is in repairing for the last ~2 months :( . at least I hope this is still the reason19:29
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DocScrutinizer05((<TTilus> uh oh, why would i need the host key of old n900?)) either that, or you edit (or just delete) ~/.ssh/known_hosts on your PC you try to connect to N900 from19:30
DocScrutinizer05you also might have to reset known_hosts on N90019:32
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DocScrutinizer05aaah, you failed with password entry on N900. Yes that's another reason19:33
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Ashley`freemangordon, I've found something19:42
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DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: install correct modules19:44
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: he has a different problem19:47
freemangordonthe modules are in place19:47
DocScrutinizer05she, but... yeah, maybe19:47
freemangordonshe? ok :)19:47
DocScrutinizer05aah, nope. He19:48
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: the same problem with kernel failing to mount rootfs after u-boot, -ENODEV19:48
DocScrutinizer05or maybe she. Dank, is Ashley` same as ashley?19:49
DocScrutinizer05dnag even19:49
Ashley`she, and nope :P19:49
Ashley`I don't even know who ashley is :P19:49
DocScrutinizer05joe phenix19:49
Ashley`(I still don't know xD)19:50
DocScrutinizer05our wiki maintainer19:50
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jogaheh some days ago got a spare n900 and, well, gf came back from a trip with a dislocated usb connector on hers, nice timing19:52
DocScrutinizer05aynway, yes it seems I missed some details in your problem report. It's a nasty thing in uBoot that sometimes causes uBoot to fail epically. Dunno if it's related to uBoot version or whatever19:52
jogabah, just got it tweaked for my work use :p19:52
jogawill borrow it to her anyway until I get the connector fixed19:53
joga(if possible)19:53
DocScrutinizer05prolly an incompatibility between uBoot fake memory config reported to kernel, and actual hardware in device19:53
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)19:54
DocScrutinizer05it's always possible, just sometimes not exactly easy19:54
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jogayeah, need to do some research and open the thing at least first19:58
jogano rush so I'll just set up the spare for her first19:58
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Ashley`is there kexec for maemo?20:05
jogaI can't find "Copy from SIM card" in contacts again :F20:05
jogait's in phone mode, showing reception, pin given and in contacts there's just sync from other device, import from new account and import contacts (file/folder)20:06
jogathough I did enter phone mode only after it was booted20:06
hxkaAshley`: Yeah, in kernel-power20:07
hxkaAnd there is kexec-tools package in extras-testing and devel20:07
hxkaDidn't test it though20:07
Ashley`oh, I see. Thanks.20:08
hxkajoga: try pkill osso-addressbook20:12
Ashley`Is there any alternative to u-boot? :P20:12
jogahxka, ah, probably would've helped, reboot did at least20:12
DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: not really20:14
DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: OTOH yiu actually don't need uBoot except for nitdroid and that's .... not needed either20:15
Ashley`i want to boot archlinux :P20:15
Ashley`(I have it in chroot... had (reflash), but watchdoge doesn't like pacman)20:15
DocScrutinizer05your problem AFAIK is with your RAM banks hw config20:16
Ashley`is it fixable somehow?20:16
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DocScrutinizer05well, probably in uBoot it actually is fixable20:16
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DocScrutinizer05or just maybe you actually got a bad block in your kernel partition20:18
DocScrutinizer05I don't know how NOLO/stock-kernel is handling bad blocks, but somehow they are supposed to do20:19
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DocScrutinizer05alas all this is pretty obscure, thanks to NOLO being a blob20:20
Ashley`can I check somehow if I've got bad blocks?20:20
DocScrutinizer05err yep, there is some way to check. Seems your link you posted refers to a IRC chat that relates to it20:21
DocScrutinizer05another possible approach is to cat /dev/mtd<kernel> and compare to the content supposed to be there20:22
DocScrutinizer05mtd_utils seem to have some useful functions20:25
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DocScrutinizer05mtdinfo /dev/mtd320:27
DocScrutinizer05doesn't show bad blocks20:27
DocScrutinizer05Eraseblock size:                131072 bytes, 128.0 KiB20:29
DocScrutinizer05Amount of eraseblocks:          16 (2097152 bytes, 2.0 MiB)20:29
Ashley`I'll just give up, meh.20:29
DocScrutinizer05one bad block might already suffice to reduce available space below the threshold where uBoot(+kernel) fits. even when bad blocks are handled correctly20:30
DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: could you please do a `cat /dev/mtd3 >kerneldump.bin` and provide that file somewhere for analysis?20:31
DocScrutinizer05ooh wait, you can't get that done except in rescueOS, since when you flash uBoot it doesn't boot any normal kernel anymore, right?20:32
Ashley`i can boot it from flasher-3.520:32
DocScrutinizer05well, a dump of stock kernel NAND partition will help too. It still should indicate if there are bad blocks20:32
Ashley`I'm on kp52 now20:33
DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: right, you can load kernel to RAM20:33
hxkaApparently there is nandtest to check if blocks are bad20:33
DocScrutinizer05hxka: NOOOOOO!20:33
DocScrutinizer05STAY AWAY FROM NANDTEST!20:33
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DocScrutinizer05it's a sure way to semi-brick your N90020:34
DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: thanks20:34
Ashley`it is
hxkaWell, OBVIOUSLY you'll have to reflash kernel after that20:34
Ashley`i think20:34
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DocScrutinizer05hxka: yeah, or reflash CAL after accidentally erasing the config partition20:35
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DocScrutinizer05nandtest doesn't know about partitions afaik20:36
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hxkaOh wait20:37
hxka  -k, --keep            Restore existing contents after test20:37
DocScrutinizer05good luck!20:37
Ashley`DocScrutinizer05, can I disable watchdog somehow?20:37
DocScrutinizer05or sth like that20:38
DocScrutinizer05there are 3(?) different wds20:38
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Ashley`DocScrutinizer05, but it's not persistent, yep?20:39
hxkaflasher --set-rd-flags=no-omap-wd,no-ext-wd,no-lifeguard-reset20:39
hxkaalso --enable-rd-mode20:39
Ashley`Because watchdog is rebooting my phone when I try to pacman -S whatever20:40
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hxkaAshley`: it's persistent until you run flasher with --disable-rd-mode20:40
DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: it is persistent20:41
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Ashley`but, Is it good to run phone in that r&d mode all the time?20:41
hxkaWell, it drains your battery because of constant kb backlight20:41
DocScrutinizer05it eats more battery, and watchdogs are for there a reason20:41
Ashley`I dont like random reboots :f20:42
DocScrutinizer05kb backlight is not constant but signalling SoC clock etc. And it can get disabled via a sysfs node20:42
DocScrutinizer05but there is other stuff that's enabled in R&D mode, like uart3 (serial console)20:43
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Ashley`I just want to install packages in arch chroot without reboots20:43
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, that's a problem with swap hogging CPU20:44
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DocScrutinizer05a ulimit for pacman might already help20:46
ShadowJKNot exactly hogging cpu20:47
ShadowJKJust that the cpu has nothing to do.20:47
ShadowJKAs code isn't coming in from storage fast enough20:47
t3st3rOMAP seems to have slow I/O.20:47
ShadowJKNot particulary20:47
t3st3rwhen it swaps, whole system works slowly and getting unresponsive.20:48
ShadowJKBecause the storage is slow20:48
DocScrutinizer05well, that's a property of... *every* system20:48
t3st3r[22:47:34] <DocScrutinizer05> a ulimit for pacman might already help <- yep, it would just crash or malfunction due to lack of RAM :)20:48
DocScrutinizer05then pacman is defect20:49
t3st3rswap suxx on every system but on n900 it can be so bad it would cause watchdog reboot :D20:49
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ShadowJKashley; dunno what kind of setup you have, but, if you're running on MicroSD, get a fast one, I recommend Samsung Pro, Sandisk Extreme (available in two speed grades, the slower rated one is faster), or Sandisk Ultra android edition20:49
DocScrutinizer05no, on N900 you *have* a wd that reboots, while other usual PCs don't20:50
Ashley`ShadowJK, I don't have microsd :P20:50
ShadowJKDon't use ext2, it's uber slow on flash. ext4 is preferrable20:50
t3st3r[22:49:57] <DocScrutinizer05> then pacman is defect <- no, that's how memory allocation failures are looking :)20:50
ShadowJKecho 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests20:50
DocScrutinizer05t3st3r: I'm no noob20:50
ShadowJKSpeeds up IO quite alot IME20:50
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DocScrutinizer05when pacman fails with malloc when no 512MB+ of memory available, then pacman *is* broken in my book20:51
t3st3rDocScrutinizer05>  in fact PC can have watchdog too. But it both more rare to have watchdog on PC and it's harder to make it swapping SO badly.20:51
ShadowJKt3st3r; I have swap on microsd, I've never experienced watchdog reboot due to swapstorm :)20:51
b1101can someone help me with dbus-scripts. I'm trying to make someplayer skip to next track with zoom keys. The latest cssu update broke it20:51
ShadowJKAnd I've sometimes been up to gig of swap in use :s20:51
DocScrutinizer05t3st3r: thanks, never heard of that¡20:51
t3st3r[22:51:15] <ShadowJK> Don't use ext2, it's uber slow on flash. ext4 is preferrable <- are there recent kernels for n900 to run it safely?20:51
t3st3rDocScrutinizer05> IIRC N900 is really paranoid about watchdogs: 2 watchdogs + some software monitor.20:52
ShadowJKt3st3r; also PC even with slow laptop harddrive has 100+ IOPS performance, the N900 emmc is <10, cheap SD cards around 1. SSDs 10,000 or more.20:53
ShadowJKt3st3r; kernel-power has backported ext420:53
DocScrutinizer05b1101: what's zoom keys?20:53
t3st3rShadowJK> as I told I got impression OMAP I/O is "quite slow". Though idea with fast SD could work I guess.20:53
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b1101the volume key20:54
t3st3rbut still, i/o with SD or eMMC tend to cause CPU load.20:54
ShadowJKt3st3r; my Asus tablet with nvidia tegra has "slower I/O" than N900 :)20:54
DocScrutinizer05a particularly funny idea to abuse volume keys for something other than volume control during mp3 playback20:54
DocScrutinizer05but well20:54
b1101DocScrutinizer05, the last post. I have no idea what to do with those things20:55
t3st3rShadowJK> oh, really? :D20:55
ShadowJKt3st3r; the big issue is that writing anything takes seconds in the worst case, and there's loads of little writes going on all the time... the worst case scenario becomes more likely the more stuff is going on simultaneously, which also creates greater memory pressure, so stuff is constantly waiting for some piece of code to get read in, but first needs to wait for the write to complete20:56
ShadowJKt3st3r; yes, that tablet has a slower emmc than N900..20:57
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ShadowJKQuad core, but the cores mostly idle, and nothing happens in browser, browser having first written url history then checking disk cache blocked until adding the url to url history completes20:58
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t3st3rShadowJK> I guess in worst case it's infamous bug 12309 could kick in.20:59
povbotBug menu icon not graphical20:59
ShadowJKRoughly speaking, a 8 megabyte write takes just as long as a 4 kilobyte write, updating a database file involves something like minimum 4 such 4k writes, which works out to the equivalent of writing a 32 megabyte file...20:59
t3st3rbot, you lame :P20:59
t3st3rflash is block device...21:00
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ShadowJKIt pretends to be a block device21:00
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t3st3rIt is actually a block device. Minimum write unit is page (several kb). But sometimes it takes erase of large block (hundreds Kb or more).21:01
DocScrutinizer05~wiki erasepage21:01
infobotI couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves:
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ShadowJKt3st3r; the emmc in my asus tablet has 8M erase block21:02
t3st3rSome advanced controllers with more than 1 IC attached can operate on "erase groups", these are even more.21:02
ShadowJK4M, 6M, 8M and 12M "effective" erase blocks are thee norm now21:02
t3st3rMaybe more than 1 flash IC attached and controller haves erase group width 8Mb?21:02
ShadowJKFrom my point of view it's not much of a difference whether it's 2x4M grouped together or 1x8M, the net result is the same, worst case the emmc does 8M read-modify-write for every request21:03
DocScrutinizer05I don't see how all this factoid-tossing is helping Ashley`21:03
ShadowJKnr_requests bigger and swap on uSD should sort out ashley21:04
t3st3rDocScrutinizer05> to be honest I don't see how to help with it at all. Maybe fast SDHC with swap on it could improve it a bit?21:04
DocScrutinizer05b1101: I don't know21:04
t3st3ralso maybe thumb build would help? More RAM for programs after all.21:05
DocScrutinizer05t3st3r: thanks!21:05
ShadowJKLarger queue size helped me, I saw an increase in average request size as reported by iostat, which means less read-modify-write type write amplification on the emmc, which means higher net throughput :D21:06
t3st3rShadowJK> is this tunable system-wide?21:06
ShadowJKIt's per block device21:07
t3st3rahh then it looks like nice thing to try to select better blocking for flash devices.21:07
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DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: after t3st3r stopped discussing basics with ShadowJK, I suggest you ask ShadowJK what he suggests to improve the watchdog timeout problem21:08
ShadowJKWith modern kernel we'd use the flash aware I/O scheduler, and the flash friendly filesystem (f2fs) :)21:08
ShadowJK<ShadowJK> Don't use ext2, it's uber slow on flash. ext4 is preferrable21:09
ShadowJK<ShadowJK> echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests21:09
t3st3r[23:09:40] <ShadowJK> With modern kernel we'd use the flash aware I/O scheduler, and the flash friendly filesystem (f2fs) :) <- I wonder if it possible on n900 :D21:09
Ashley`thanks, i'll try (i need to install arch again - i was reflashing my device today)21:10
t3st3ras for ext2/3 you can try to hint it to use stride supposedly equal to erase block of card.21:11
t3st3rand it could be "ext3 minus journal".21:11
ShadowJKBefore I changed that tunable, large highspeed file transfers were basically impossible for me21:11
t3st3rShadowJK> what kernel you use for ext4?21:11
t3st3rin 2.6.28 it was experimental/unsafe oO21:12
ShadowJKt3st3r; ext wouldn't allow it, but I wanted to try run with gigantic journal, on the order of 32g journal on 64g card21:12
ShadowJKt3st3r; power52, it has backported ext4 fixes21:12
t3st3roh, really? So it haves less scary ext4?21:12
ShadowJKI think Estel runs ext4 /home21:13
ShadowJKme too lazy to edit startup scripts and only have it on uSD21:14
ShadowJK(and a bunch of speed critical stuff from /home on uSD and symlinked)21:14
t3st3rbecause originally there was a lot of bugs fixed, up to total volume blow-up.21:14
DocScrutinizer05that's why we got backports of a working version21:15
t3st3rand I only dared to use Ext4 at about 2.6.38 or so...21:15
ShadowJKIt's not a fair comparison, but I've blown up the ext3 on $home about 5 times, and ext4 on uSD 0 times21:15
t3st3rI havent blown up any EXTs because I'm careful :)21:16
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ShadowJKbtw, I think the misconception that I/O is busywait comes from the myriad of cpu monitors that treat all not-idle cpu time as busy, and shows widget claiming cpu is fully utilized :)21:18
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ShadowJKDespite my optimized setup, the typic web browsing session for me is 20-30% cpu wa, meaning that the cpu was idling despite processes wanting to run, as i/o the process depends on is in progress21:21
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ShadowJKOr in other words, 30% of websurfing system load consists on waiting for the emmc and uSD to do their job :/21:22
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: I wasn't to suggest cpu was busy-waiting. Hogged meant something different than busy in my staement21:25
DocScrutinizer05the real problem I think is [swapd] not doing preemption21:28
Ashley`DocScrutinizer05, what you're going to do with that kernel.bin from me?21:29
DocScrutinizer05maybe I find time to compare it to a "sane" image21:29
Ashley`ah... one thing...21:30
Ashley`You wanted me to do that dump with u-boot flashed into nand?21:30
ShadowJKIt's kinda funny how much my finetuning of my N800 has changed over the years, as I've continously upgraded the SD cards in it21:31
ShadowJKI wonder if it's already past the point where the SD cards have more CPU power than the N800 itself :)21:32
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; what do you mean by preemption?21:32
DocScrutinizer05I mean kernel can't run [wd]21:32
ShadowJKWell it would run it if it was still in ram21:34
DocScrutinizer05yeah, not sure if a 'normal' (even kernel) process is supposed to block kernel from multitasking21:34
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t3st3rwaiting for the emmc and uSD to do their job :/ <- means it could theoretically be 30% faster at same horsepower :)21:35
DocScrutinizer05then otoh sw-reset (wd) could as well be the dsme one, or whoknowswhat21:35
ShadowJKthis is backupmenu's watchdog software:21:35
ShadowJK( while true ; do echo x ; sleep 1 ; done ) > $dev 2>/dev/null < /dev/null &21:36
ShadowJKI wonder what process does the equivalent in fremantle... mce?21:36
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's how all watchdogs work21:36
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DocScrutinizer05and another one is embedded in kernel I guess21:37
DocScrutinizer05disclaimer: AFAIK21:37
DocScrutinizer05Ashley`: don't worry21:38
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ShadowJKSo if dsme isn't in ram when its timer expires, and there's heavy I/O going on, it probably doesn't make it back in time21:38
DocScrutinizer05though dsme should be ram-locked21:38
DocScrutinizer05(dunno how that's done but I know it is possible and used in maemo a lot)21:39
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Ashley`DocScrutinizer05, there is something about ramlocking21:40
ShadowJKmight be intentional, when a relatively small thing like dsme doesn't respond quickly enough, the UI responds even slower, so intentionally let it reboot?21:40
ShadowJK319M swap in use on N800 :)21:45
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t3st3rShadowJK> do you have N800?22:16
t3st3rthat old tablet from Nokia?22:16
ShadowJKI have a N800, N810, 4 broken N900, 2 working N90022:17
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Ashley`<ShadowJK> <ShadowJK> echo 8192 > /sys/block/mmcblk0/queue/nr_requests22:18
Ashley`can't create /sys/block/.../nr_requests: Read only filesystem22:18
ShadowJKmissing an iosched in that path somewhere22:18
ShadowJKlooks identical :P22:19
ShadowJKLook around in /sys/block/mmcblk0/ for it?22:19
Ashley`there is io_shed22:20
Ashley`but there isn't nr_requests22:20
Ashley`(also, I can't for example change sheduler)22:20
ShadowJKwhat kernel is this22:20
Ashley`(i could some time ago...)22:20
ShadowJKsame here22:21
ShadowJKYou dont want anything except cfq anyway22:21
Ashley`(i was just testing something with scheduler)22:22
Ashley`(anyway, it was in /sys, and it wasn't ro...)22:22
ShadowJKI have in /sys/block/mmcblk*/queue/ : hw_sector_size     max_hw_sectors_kb  nomerges           read_ahead_kb      scheduler  iosched            max_sectors_kb     nr_requests        rq_affinity22:23
ShadowJKis mmcblk1 present in /sys and more populated?22:23
Ashley`oh, wait22:24
Ashley`there isnt mmcblk022:24
Ashley`there is mmcblk0p*22:24
ShadowJKmmcblk0p is different22:26
Ashley`i forgot about -d switch22:26
Ashley`and i did ls /sys/block/mmc*22:26
Ashley`instead ls -d /sys/block/mmc*22:27
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hxkaAshley`: That's why tab completion exists22:43
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hxkaAshley`: I checked your kernel.bin, it's ok23:04
Ashley`oh, thanks23:05
Ashley`But it means that I still dont know what causes the problem :f23:05
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DocScrutinizer05probably your memory hw architecture then23:28
DocScrutinizer05my initial suspition23:28
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DocScrutinizer05could somebody check a x86-linux "bug" I seem to encounter?23:29
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DocScrutinizer05in X11 make your kbd numlock LED shine. (I.E. set numlock). Then switch to console (ctrl-alt-F1). switch back to X11 (usually alt-F7). watch numlock LED. press SHIFT-key-> LED off. press capslock ->numlock+capslock LED on. (press capslock again to unlock capslock)23:33
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DocScrutinizer05can you reproduce this or is it just me?23:34
xesi suppose it's just you . ...Going to console the numlock led remains in the same condition23:35
hxkaI can reproduce it23:35
DocScrutinizer05xes: yes23:36
DocScrutinizer05hxka: thanks23:38
DocScrutinizer05I guess it's a bug in kbd LED control driver23:39
DocScrutinizer05at least finally I managed to find how to reproduce it. Before it drove me nuts at times23:40
xesDocScrutinizer05: sorry, can't reproduce (kde 4.11.5, kernel 3.12.8)23:40
DocScrutinizer05kde 4.8.5 (4.8.5) "release 2"23:42
DocScrutinizer05kernel 3.4.63-2.44-desktop23:42
xes..but i remember that the kde version of fedora 17 had some strange numlock issue (kde 4.9.?)23:43
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DocScrutinizer054.8.5 seems close enough to 4.923:43
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xescould be related:
povbotBug 183308: was not found.23:45
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povbotBug 183308: was not found.23:47
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