IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-12-27

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antithesis_Can I install any package that's available for PCs using Debian, on a Maemo device?01:08
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sixwheeledbeastantithesis_: Do you mean install any Debian package in Maemo?01:18
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antithesis_sixwheeledbeast yeah03:13
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DocScrutinizer05the mystery of architecture and commandset07:56
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, I guess "instructionset" is the right term08:03
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zGrrmoin :)11:01
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infobotfrom memory, kerio is <sixwheeledbeast> ah kerio, you beauty12:33
kerioinfobot: freemangordon is a pretty cool guy12:33
infobotkerio: okay12:33
infobot[freemangordon] a pretty cool guy12:33
kerioinfobot: no, freemangordon is a pretty cool guy. eh makes impossible things work and doesn't afraid of anything.12:34
infobotkerio: okay12:34
sixwheeledbeastgrammar "doesn't afraid" ?12:37
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antithesis_Can I install any package that's available for PCs using Debian, on a Maemo device?13:30
zGrrMost of them at least.13:30
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DocScrutinizer05the mystery of architecture and instructionset14:01
DocScrutinizer05none of them basically since PC uses X86 CPU instruction set and N900 has an ARM CPU14:02
DocScrutinizer05you however can *compile* basically all of them for fremantle14:02
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antithesis_zGrr I can change my window manager to ion3, use dmenu, bash scripts, and all of that shit?14:18
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zGrrantithesis_: you could - with chrooted debian.14:19
Wizzupif it is useful is another Q14:20
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sixwheeledbeastantithesis_: Ah your back14:25
sixwheeledbeastYou need to port them14:26
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antithesis_sixwheeledbeast what about my back?14:35
sixwheeledbeastYou vanished when you asked the first time....14:36
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antithesis_sixwheeledbeast you can rub my back if you want15:02
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antithesis_Can Maemo be controlled completely by the keyboard, without generally using the touch screen?15:42
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zammyhow to get black colored xterm?15:44
zammy ← ahahahah15:46
antithesis_Gotta love That Mitchell and Webb look.15:50
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zammyI done...16:16
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Gear__is there a way of running android apps under maemo?18:37
Gear__this phone despite all the awesome as HELL hardware is getting pretty dated18:39
darkschneiderhello Gear__ it is true, but you may consider an upgrade to a Neo90018:40
darkschneiderthat will remove most of the "dated" from it ;)18:40
Gear__yeah when that ever comes out18:41
Gear__also I don't have a thousand dollars or whatever it costs18:41
Gear__or a thousand euro18:41
darkschneideri quite trust we get it soon (i.e. less than a year)18:41
Gear__that's great for people who can afford it18:41
Gear__is there a working neo900 yet18:42
darkschneiderand also the cost it not that high. Consider that it will be made decently, not like the n900 where chips come off.. when you have to fix sprint to your phone to make it work again, you relize that paying 100 more for having it properly manufactured it not bad... (consider that everybody times costs, and i spent a day fixing mine...)18:43
Gear__is there a working neo900 yet18:43
darkschneiderfor updated new it's better to use #neo900 i do not want to say you incorrect things18:44
Gear__at the moment I'm not interested thanks18:44
darkschneiderwelcome :)18:44
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Gear__but I'd love to see it once it's finished18:45
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Gear__my first n900 is only just starting to get a bit beaten up, I have a second one I'm going to transfer my stuff to18:47
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darkschneiderDoc Gear would like to know approximately when a Neo900 prototype will be around18:53
Gear__there's a few android apps I want to run on my phone18:53
darkschneiderbut i do not think it suits your use case18:54
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Gear__that doesn't seem to be a finished product18:55
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Gear__it seems to be maemo or something totally inferior with the n90018:57
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Gear__does ubuntu work well yet?19:01
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Gear__is there any decent alternative to maemo19:16
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Ori_553is maemo dead after the n900?19:23
infobotneo900 is probably at, or at
Ori_553i saw the neo900, but its more a hobby cause, (a good idea of course), but apart of that?19:25
ShadowJKMaemo has been a "hobby cause" for the last 3 years or something.19:25
darkschneidersad :( nonetheless it's the best phone i ever had... and my gf envy it too19:27
Ori_553its sad that there is so much potential in this operating system and people prefer to close they mind and buy the iphone so they dont have to think19:27
sixwheeledbeasthaving never used an iphone much people look at me oddly when they pass me one and it takes minutes to something "I should know". Maemo is very intuitive IMHO.19:31
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darkschneideryou forget that people do not like to think19:33
Ori_553i bought a n900 3 weeks ago because of the keyboard,  and its awesome, the only weak point is that maemo is dead and i found answers to my questions in dead forums, i felt like going back in time lol, but i love this gadget19:33
thedead1440sixwheeledbeast: indeed; actually we are at the point whereby an iphone/droid can do almost everything you need to but (And its a huge but), you need to jump thru hoops to do the same... unfortunately i feel we are pass the point whereby these adjustments can be reversed19:34
sixwheeledbeastthedead1440: agreed19:35
darkschneiderhere if you ask a kid around age 10 he will say: think == effort == bad. simple as that. Look at the games they play. Thye say "click here - good, you are great! - now click here -  Hey you are soo good! you are a master"... and you never die or do wrong. Everyone is always a champion. Going with this from childhood, you get used that thinking is not a good think. Choice is evil. You must do what the phone tells you to do. Nothing diffe19:36
sixwheeledbeastOri_553: "dead forums"? * isn't dead19:36
sixwheeledbeastneither is this channel19:36
sixwheeledbeastgaming has changed, people find "game over - start again" frustrating so removing the option to die makes sense to sell.19:40
Ori_553sixwheeledbeast, is not dead but we are almost in 2014 and the only users left are the passionate, in an os that doesnt seem to have a future apart from the neo900, thats what i meant, then of course the maemo community did some shoking work, i found almost everything i needed in that forum19:40
Ori_553darkshneider couldn't agree more19:40
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DocScrutinizer05 <Ori_553> >>.. its awesome, the only weak point is that maemo is dead<<  Says who?19:44
Ori_553it makes me happy that you didnt like my statement, because i bought the n900 only recently19:45
infobotmethinks cssu is
sixwheeledbeastmaemo ISN'T dead19:46
DocScrutinizer05it seems like last update is of ... err.. today? tomorrow?19:46
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freemangordonmerlin1991: ^^^? :P19:47
DocScrutinizer05maybe ubuntu is dead! ;-P Maemo jas 30,000 *active* users19:47
sixwheeledbeastHis PC was wet so no update yet19:48
Ori_553maybe youre right19:48
DocScrutinizer05his PC had wet dreams19:48
freemangordonsixwheeledbeast: comeon, it should be dry as a statue's ti*s by now :)19:48
sixwheeledbeast:nod: Why he went for a walk in the rain with it is beyond me :)19:49
DocScrutinizer05walk the PC19:49
freemangordonto show it the bad big world outside?19:49
DocScrutinizer05make it shit19:49
DocScrutinizer05retrieve a few CDs19:50
DocScrutinizer05probably much more fun to throw CDs rather than sticks19:50
* DocScrutinizer05 has his silly 5 minutes19:51
DocScrutinizer05seem somebody telling me "maemo is dead" has this effect on me19:52
spaakhi, relevant talk i think:
DocScrutinizer05btw I just talked with a merchantman who has a pretty good clue about IT and particularly PGP etc which he used since 1990. He might be interested in a few 1000 Neo90019:53
DocScrutinizer05given somebody of his clients (or we) creates a cryptfs based system19:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hmm, I guess that should be supported ootb19:55
freemangordonI mean - kernel supports it19:55
sixwheeledbeastpuppy linux is for life not just for christmas :P19:56
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: yeah, sure :->19:56
freemangordonwe have a HW RNG too19:56
Sicelo(to sidetrack a bit.. can i use scratchbox on a machine with xfce wm?)19:56
DocScrutinizer05wetware RNG: l#üp  zirPOsd pvfgeuü19:57
DocScrutinizer0524#rg po reO19:57
DocScrutinizer05looks buggy19:57
freemangordonSicelo: what has WM to do with SB? you want to boot maemo?19:57
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: you can use SB on every machine that has xterm, no?19:58
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DocScrutinizer05when you can install xephyr you even can run emu19:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I guess he wants to boot the UI19:58
Sicelodon't know. just didn't want to get a wm, and end up with unuseable SB19:58
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Siceloi want to set up the sdk.. but gnome has become bloated nowadays..19:59
freemangordonSicelo: go ahed, it should not be related in any way19:59
Sicelocool. thanks19:59
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: SB is a cmdline "app" first approach19:59
DocScrutinizer05ok, a bit of ncurses19:59
sixwheeledbeasteverything has become bloated these days19:59
Siceloi do use gnome happily on my pc, but i don't want to have to download all it offers into my SB VM (following thp's instructions)20:00
ShadowJKEveryone is so relieved and happy now, that Linux never adopted a "hw rng only" approach, but mixes hw rng output with other sources of rng20:01
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: define "boot the UI"20:01
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: the simulator - hidon-desktop, etc20:01
Sicelothanks for info :)20:01
freemangordonno, doesn't work, only 386 is ok20:01
DocScrutinizer05didn't know20:02
Ori_553is it fairly safe to install community update testing? ive installed the stable version and if i got it right its dates 201120:02
DocScrutinizer05Latest version: Testing(2013-10-27): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3; Stable(2013-06-18): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6.120:02
freemangordonOri_553: the last -stable is some 6 months old20:02
SiceloOri_553: i'm on stable. happy20:03
DocScrutinizer05next testing is sheduled for like 16h ago20:03
DocScrutinizer05stable is... stable20:03
DocScrutinizer05I never get it why people start getting nervvous when there's no major update for 3 months. For me that's a good sign, given the maintainers still are taking care and simply don't think any update is needed20:04
sixwheeledbeastOri_553: 21.2011.38-1 is the last "Nokia" release 2011 Week 38. Everything CSSU related is after this20:05
Ori_553when i go sttings/community SSU it says 2011, is that just the version of the updater?20:06
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: chem|st: how about weekly posts "no new bugs, all cool. Stay calm! $date" to CSSU changelog?20:06
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer: I agree but CSSU-S is long over due some fixes I have pointed out before20:06
DocScrutinizer05yes, I think there's at least one bugfix re AGPS that should go to CSSU-S20:07
merlin1991freemangordon: today20:07
sixwheeledbeastand hildon-desktop bugs20:07
Sicelonew stable today?20:07
DocScrutinizer05if and when it's meanwhile sufficently tested20:07
DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: T20:07
sixwheeledbeastno new testing soon20:07
freemangordonmerlin1991: great. anyway, I was just pestering you :P20:08
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: about walking in the rain20:08
DocScrutinizer05don't walk the PC for shitting when rain20:08
merlin1991there's such a thing as lan-partys20:08
merlin1991and sometimes it rains when you hit the dailight again20:08
infobotmerlin1991 meant: and sometimes it rains when you hit the daylight again20:08
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: there are plastic bags. some say too many of them on this planet20:09
merlin1991in this particular case none were nearby and it was only the 20m from my car anyway20:10
merlin1991but still better not risk it blowing up in my face with all the cssu .... stuff on it20:10
DocScrutinizer05then why the heck bother about those 5 drops of H2O?20:10
merlin1991because the case is quite open20:10
DocScrutinizer05aaah, hacker PC20:11
merlin1991it has a huge 240 mm fan on top, shitloads of openings on the back and front ...20:11
DocScrutinizer05yeah, one of those where the "case" is the wire structure that holds the fans20:11
DocScrutinizer05240mm??? HECK my whole tower is no 24cm wide20:12
ShadowJKit's the latest craze20:12
ShadowJKwatercooling radiator with 8 huge slow-turning fans20:13
DocScrutinizer05damn boy, you got quite a geeky hightech heater20:13
merlin1991but it's actually only 200mm I just measured it20:14
ShadowJKor 2 kilogram air heatsink :P20:14
merlin1991240 was a wild guess based on a double size "normal" fan :D20:14
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, my tower is exactly 20cm wide20:14
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; it's kinda interesting, power consumption has almost halved since Pentium 4 days, but heatsink sizes have gone up by a factor of 5 or 1020:15
merlin1991ShadowJK: nobody likes the sound of a starting passenger jet under his/her desk anymore20:15
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: that's because of intel's idiotic crappy thermal design20:15
ShadowJKI believe merlin more :P20:15
ecc3geh... the stock heatsink have gotten smaller from p4 -> core ...20:16
DocScrutinizer05I can't hear a sound from my tower20:16
merlin1991but intels maybe not so great design still seems to work better than amds, at least if you compare average heatsink size :D20:16
ShadowJKheh, yeah20:17
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: when all you do is run irc what sound do you expect from your tower? :p20:17
DocScrutinizer05the problem is intel limiting/throttling clockrate according to heat20:17
ShadowJKYou still hit max rates with the puny stock hsf20:18
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: don't underestimate the amount of worker threads skynet places on this PC I pretend to live in20:19
ShadowJKHeck, my laptop seems to be able to run continously at 10Watts over the official TDP of the cpu20:19
thedead1440doc lol20:19
ecc3gin fact i think my p4 stock heat sink is about twice as big as my c2q's and corei7 heatsinks...20:20
ShadowJKMy current c2q heatsink seems about the size of the motherboard20:21
ecc3gwhere are you reading power, is that system power?  What computers give CPU-only power?20:21
DocScrutinizer05but yeah, you're right. load average: 0.19, 0.18, 0.2320:21
DocScrutinizer05which is a joke for a quadcore20:21
ShadowJKecc3g; haswell gives detailed power stats20:22
ShadowJKpackage total power, memory controller, cpu cores, uncore, gpu20:22
DocScrutinizer05get a decent PSU!20:22
ShadowJKHaswell needs ATX psu capable of regulating 12V down to 0.05A load20:24
DocScrutinizer05wonder why the heck there's no fan RPM20:24
DocScrutinizer05friggin intel board20:24
DocScrutinizer05GFX bios but no fan RPM in linux20:25
DocScrutinizer05poooh, not only GFX but actually also SOUND!!!20:25
DocScrutinizer05makes me headdesk each single time when the bios goes intel-DIDUNGDIDOONG20:26
merlin1991I'm glad I only touched the "bios" once on the pc, it got even harder to find the right settings with the fancy GFX interface20:27
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: indeed!20:28
DocScrutinizer05a major PITA20:28
DocScrutinizer05bios for fools20:28
DocScrutinizer05next version comes with pacman20:28
DocScrutinizer05or supermario20:29
merlin1991I'd like one where they don't invent a new name for every single setting20:29
merlin1991it was almost like reading cisco docs20:29
merlin1991everything looks familiar but the names are off20:29
DocScrutinizer05maketing BS20:29
DocScrutinizer05this bios has a hidden "expert mode" that kicks you back into good'ole text bios with almost all the right names on it20:30
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DocScrutinizer05but what the heck are you doing here? shouldn't you treat your PC with a hairdryer?20:31
merlin1991nah the pc is fine by now20:31
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders where's the fire started at this yeahs CCC20:32
* DocScrutinizer05 idly checks maemo status20:32
merlin1991there was/is a fire there?20:33
DocScrutinizer05they always start fires somewhere in the intarnets20:33
DocScrutinizer05but maybe this year they got enough laptops and mobile phones locally to mess with20:34
DocScrutinizer05after all this year CCC will be largest ever20:35
DocScrutinizer05by visitors20:35
DocScrutinizer05and every single one of them brings either a laptop with WLAN or a phone with WLAN20:35
Defiantor both20:35
DocScrutinizer05so you got a LAN with 10000 devices to mess with, maybe the rest of the globe will not sufer this time20:36
DocScrutinizer05or some smart hacker uses all 10k local devices to run DDoS against freenode or whatever they think is funny ;-P20:37
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merlin1991tbh when I think about going to the ccc events I always think I shouldn't bring my devices, but only a pen and paper :D20:42
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sixwheeledbeastpaper aeroplanes for e-mail?20:53
t3st3rthere is RFC1149 already, guess paper airplanes can be some amendment/extension.20:55
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