IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2013-11-26

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DocScrutinizer05release is when you finish a call, reject is when you don't start a call00:15
DocScrutinizer05I don't see a third command "end"00:15
DocScrutinizer05actually I see only one command "release" that serves for all puposes of "press red button"00:17
DocScrutinizer05aah, now I see what you refer to. No idea00:18
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: thanks00:20
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vi__freemangordon: I would not worry about misterc.  He is a well known idiot.10:24
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cityLightsI guess its not #wine12:54
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cityLightsvi__: I seek help in running a windows program in linux under the emulator named wine13:00
cityLightswhich channel should I ask in?13:00
vi__wine==wine is not an emulator!13:01
vi__I do not know13:02
vi__a simple google search would have answered your question in ~ 3seconds.13:02
cityLightssorry vi13:04
cityLightsdo you use wine and can help me?13:04
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cityLightshow can I tell the session is using the "native" rasapi32 ?13:05
cityLightsI mean I changed it in the winecfg13:05
vi__I have no idea.  I have no used wine since I tried to play half life 2.13:05
vi__try #winehq13:06
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gambitrexjust turned on my N900 after two and a half years14:02
gambitrexafter ~ 1 hour battery charge, of course14:02
gambitrexand everything seems to be still working14:02
anYcbuilt for eternity (except usb slot)14:06
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gambitrexyeah, just remembered that. I had to leave my N900 in a weird position, just to charge it. :(14:10
gambitrexupdating packages right now. Long time I don't follow updates for n900. I still have a modified linux kernel -- not sure if it's being supported yet.14:11
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freemangordonvi__: well, I tend to always try to help people, idiots included :)18:39
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vi__freemangordon: I did not choose the thumb2 life, the thumb2 life chose me.18:57
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: they're trying to get you! run! run for the hills!20:30
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mashinarun for your liveesssss21:09
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mashinaso predictable!21:16
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xeshello there! After a few strace sessions to investigate about the modest performace, i think i have found a trick that could increase the maemo performace systewide... SO ... i would ask for testers and ideas to understand this behavior (if it's the same also for you). The trick is:  ln -s /usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons      Strange? Stupid? maybe... but try it21:46
keriou wot21:47
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freemangordonkerio: what is strange is that modest interaction really seems faster22:06
kerio>implying anyone uses modest22:06
freemangordonI use it22:07
DocScrutinizer05aah, only modest (the modest modest mail app)?22:07
freemangordonguys, wait, the point is that it could have a system-wide speedup. If true22:07
DocScrutinizer05>>that could increase the maemo performace systewide<<22:08
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freemangordonbecause I doubt modest is using /usr/share/icons without help from some lib. gtk?22:08
freemangordonbut we need a confirmation/not22:09
freemangordonand a testcase22:09
DocScrutinizer05well, I know xes and his experience and very understatement way to post things. But that... needs a *tad* more rationale before I invest any time into it. Since without proper understand on how it's meant to work, I can't check if it actually does22:09
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DocScrutinizer05also I wonder if a ln -s /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons  wasn't even more effective, if that whole thing is any effective at all22:16
kerioi doubt it's the actual path resolution22:16
DocScrutinizer05and then, why not already ln /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons22:16
keriolinux's VFS is good enough22:16
freemangordonkerio: but what could be then?22:17
kerioDocScrutinizer05: because you can't hardlink directories :s22:17
DocScrutinizer05oh, I can't?22:17
kerionot even root can22:17
keriodo you think you're better than root?22:17
DocScrutinizer05do you think you can beat me at trolling ;-P22:18
keriomount --bind /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons22:18
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freemangordonkerio: DocScrutinizer05: the reason could be that someone tries access() or open() or whatever for /home/user/.icons first22:18
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keriobut why does that cause a performance hit?22:19
freemangordonhmm, gtk rc?22:19
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: thought as much22:19
DocScrutinizer05also I fail to see the mega performance impact22:20
freemangordontrying to preload the whole theme?22:20
DocScrutinizer05a stat() is utterly fast, particularly when done often in sequence (and otherwise it wouldn't matter anyway) since then all relevant disk blocks are in biffers already22:21
freemangordonxes: according to your strace, what modests looks for in /home/user/.icons?22:21
DocScrutinizer05buffers even22:21
xesfreemangordon: all the icons of the gtk theme22:22
kerio...ok, that could cause a performance hit22:22
DocScrutinizer05how so?22:23
DocScrutinizer05it's still only a few hundred stat()22:23
DocScrutinizer05to a non-existing dir22:23
DocScrutinizer05always same dir22:23
xesmodest searches for icons also in /usr/local/share/icons22:23
DocScrutinizer05( /home/user/.icons )22:23
freemangordonxes: what finction it executes?22:24
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xesDocScrutinizer05: open()22:24
DocScrutinizer05doesn't change much22:24
freemangordonhmm there are hundreds of icons22:24
DocScrutinizer05I think a failing open() is as fast as a failing stat()22:24
freemangordonyep, but calling that hundreds of times takes time22:25
xesyou are free to try:  strace -e open -p _modest_pid_22:25
DocScrutinizer05did you use profiling/timestamping in strace?22:25
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freemangordonxes: does that happen only when starting modest?22:26
xesDocScrutinizer05: no22:26
xesfreemangordon: i have straced only modest but i'm almost sure the behavior is valid also for other apps22:26
DocScrutinizer05I bet N900 can execute 1000s of failing open() to same pathname per second22:26
xesi have also add a few other symlinks.... i have to check, i can't remember, it seems that it' s searching for many things in the wrong places22:27
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: for (i=0; i<1000000; i++); open("/home/user/foobar");22:28
DocScrutinizer05time a.out22:28
xesDocScrutinizer05: sure. This is what i was expecting.... but this is now what i think i have obtained22:29
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DocScrutinizer05xes: it definitely does, since you can override virtually every file by a similar file in your home dir22:29
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: going to try it22:29
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: stop!22:31
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: thoug, it is not exactly correct, it should be foobar%d IMO22:31
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: for (i=0; i<1000000; i++); open("/home/user/$i");22:31
DocScrutinizer05sorry for wrong syntax22:31
xessorry.... *this is not what i think i have obtained22:32
freemangordonxes: hmm?22:32
xesi mean ...i wasn't expecting a speedup. But this is what i'm experiencing22:33
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freemangordonxes: do you remember open() flags?22:33
DocScrutinizer05so you see a speedup where you only expected a theoretical improvement that you wouldn't expect to have any noticeable effect?22:34
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: yep22:34
xesfreemangordon: sorry i should test it again, it's been a few days since first test22:35
DocScrutinizer05well, who knows22:35
xesDocScrutinizer05: yep22:35
DocScrutinizer05xes: we already are about to test it ;-D22:35
DocScrutinizer05though strace with timestamps/profiling would be highly appreciated too, of course22:36
DocScrutinizer05was that strace that even prints statistics of average/min/max duration for each function called?22:37
freemangordoniterating 1000000 times takes ages22:37
freemangordonNokia-N900:~# time ./opentest22:37
freemangordonreal    0m 33.67s22:37
freemangordonuser    0m 5.02s22:37
freemangordonsys     0m 26.62s22:37
freemangordonwill try 10000 times22:38
DocScrutinizer05that's 26us per open()22:38
DocScrutinizer05about what I expected22:38
freemangordoncombine that with /usr/share/local22:38
freemangordonso 50us per open22:39
DocScrutinizer05you mean the symlink dereference?22:39
freemangordonI mean that it searches /home/user first, then /usr/share/local and then /usr/share22:39
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freemangordonkeep in mind my device is OC to 80522:40
DocScrutinizer05though, correctly:twice the number of open() calls22:40
DocScrutinizer05but then, how many icons can a arbitrary app open()?22:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: not sure how many of them are in the gtk theme22:41
freemangordonbut there are lots of them22:42
freemangordonI'd say thousands22:42
DocScrutinizer05an app will not open all existing icons, only the ones it needs22:42
freemangordoniirc gtk builds a list22:42
freemangordonnot sure about that one though22:42
DocScrutinizer05list processing is DA SHITE, the killer for every program22:43
DocScrutinizer05HAM is slow mainly for list processing I guess22:43
freemangordonbut iirc everytime you create a new GtkStyle (or whatever it was called) you got a copy of the default style22:43
DocScrutinizer05use strace, and time22:44
DocScrutinizer05will tell22:44
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freemangordonxes: when those open()calls happe? only on modest startup or all over the place22:44
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: HAM is slow, because libapt (c++ library) is slow in iterating all of packages22:45
xesps aux | grep modest      and  strace -e open -p   the second one.   Then open modest app22:45
PaliI already found hot code (for loop), but there is no way how to speed up it22:45
freemangordonxes: op22:45
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xesfreemangordon: then start opening mails from your inbox...22:49
DocScrutinizer05sorry, can't do since no modest configured here22:50
freemangordonxes: about 5 open() call per mail22:50
freemangordonnot much of a win22:50
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you might be right (re dir hardlinks)22:50
DocScrutinizer05       -d, -F, --directory22:51
DocScrutinizer05              allow the superuser to attempt to hard link directories (note: will probably fail due to system restrictions, even for the superuser)22:51
xesfreemangordon: yep. Not enough to explain the difference22:51
freemangordonxes: this has no visible effect22:51
DocScrutinizer05pretty verbose explanation22:51
kerioi'm not "probably" right22:51
kerioi'm right22:51
DocScrutinizer05no, you're *probably* right, since >>note: will *probably* fail <<22:52
DocScrutinizer05I guess it depends on filesystem22:52
DocScrutinizer05and on build options22:52
freemangordonxes: it'd be good if you can do some real measurement, like DocScrutinizer05 proposed ^^^, with strace timing22:52
DocScrutinizer05 -c          Count time, calls, and errors for each system call and report a summary on program exit.  On Linux, this attempts to show system time (CPU time  spent  running22:53
DocScrutinizer05                   in the kernel) independent of wall clock time.  If -c is used with -f or -F (below), only aggregate totals for all traced processes are kept.22:53
PaliDocScrutinizer05: ext* FS does not allow you to create hard link on directories22:53
Paliext* kernel drivers reject it22:53
Paliand I think that in recent kernel versions also VFS reject it22:54
DocScrutinizer05Pali: that's what I suspected22:54
Palibut I read that somebody successfully edited ext4 kernel driver (removed restriction) and it worked :-)22:54
DocScrutinizer05funny enough on NTFS it works22:55
freemangordonPali: seems like you and fbalbi will become friends at the end :D22:55
Palibut there was problem with find utility22:55
DocScrutinizer05though only with a special tool22:55
Palibut after next fsck.ext4 call, it removed that duplicate directory hard-link22:55
keriothe filesystem tree should be a directed acyclic graph22:55
kerioif you allow directory hardlinks, you add the possibility for cycles22:56
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kerioand that would confuse the hell out of everyone22:56
Palikerio: right, DAG is very good for FS :-)22:56
keriobindmounts don't have bindmounts in them22:56
keriothat's why they're allowed22:56
DocScrutinizer05Pali: LOL22:56
DocScrutinizer05@ fsck22:56
PaliDocScrutinizer05: so if you create somehow direcory hardlink (hexedit /dev/sda), then every FS code/part will remove it :D22:57
Palikernel driver, fsck, ...22:57
keriodoes fsck do "garbage collection"?22:57
keriolike, if you forcibly remove a directory entry22:57
DocScrutinizer05kerio: indeed I thnk that's what I did in kernel 1.x22:57
keriobut the files inside are still there22:57
DocScrutinizer05and I laughed my ass off22:57
kerioyeah, such fun22:57
DocScrutinizer05thanks for reminding me on that episode22:58
kerioalso, kernel 1?22:58
kerioholy shit you're old22:58
Palikerio: fsck will connect disconnected directories/files to /lost+found22:58
kerioPali: ooh right22:58
keriothat's what it's for22:58
Palihere is that post but is in czech: (but maybe there are other sk/cz people)23:03
Palimost important is: directory hardlink to / is really bad idea, it is not possible to unlink it!23:04
Paliand it make sense, that unlink is not possible23:04
Palithis is totally damaged FS, if you have two inodes which are /23:04
keriois / a particular inode?23:08
keriolike, is it always 0 or 123:08
Palihm... yes, / is some magic inode... but what fsck can do if it finds more / inodes?23:13
keriostop, drop and roll23:13
kerioto be fair23:14
kerioany entry for / inside a directory is wrong23:14
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xesfreemangordon: i have tried a few test with strace -Tttt and -c ... nothing gives a result that could justify a better performance23:38
freemangordonxes: well, the it is a placebo :)23:38
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xesfreemangordon: yes, could be a placebo.. Did you observed some difference?23:41
freemangordonyes, but it might be because of some background activity23:41
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xesfreemangordon:  background activity?23:46
freemangordonyep, someone else yeating CPU cycles and slowing a bit modes23:46
xesbtw, other apps are searching for /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache (for example hildon-status-menu)  but that file does not exist. Do you have it?23:55
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freemangordonxes: no23:56
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