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| DocScrutinizer05 | end? | 00:14 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | release is when you finish a call, reject is when you don't start a call | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see a third command "end" | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I see only one command "release" that serves for all puposes of "press red button" | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, now I see what you refer to. No idea | 00:18 |
| Sysaxed | DocScrutinizer05: thanks | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 00:20 |
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| vi__ | freemangordon: I would not worry about misterc. He is a well known idiot. | 10:24 |
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| cityLights | I guess its not #wine | 12:54 |
| vi__ | what? | 12:56 |
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| cityLights | vi__: I seek help in running a windows program in linux under the emulator named wine | 13:00 |
| cityLights | which channel should I ask in? | 13:00 |
| vi__ | wine==wine is not an emulator! | 13:01 |
| vi__ | I do not know | 13:02 |
| vi__ | #winehq | 13:02 |
| vi__ | a simple google search would have answered your question in ~ 3seconds. | 13:02 |
| cityLights | sorry vi | 13:04 |
| cityLights | do you use wine and can help me? | 13:04 |
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| cityLights | how can I tell the session is using the "native" rasapi32 ? | 13:05 |
| cityLights | I mean I changed it in the winecfg | 13:05 |
| vi__ | I have no idea. I have no used wine since I tried to play half life 2. | 13:05 |
| vi__ | try #winehq | 13:06 |
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| cityLights | thnaks | 13:06 |
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| gambitrex | just turned on my N900 after two and a half years | 14:02 |
| gambitrex | after ~ 1 hour battery charge, of course | 14:02 |
| gambitrex | and everything seems to be still working | 14:02 |
| gambitrex | :) | 14:02 |
| anYc | built for eternity (except usb slot) | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:07 |
| jon_y | http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RagnarokProofing | 14:07 |
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| gambitrex | yeah, just remembered that. I had to leave my N900 in a weird position, just to charge it. :( | 14:10 |
| gambitrex | updating packages right now. Long time I don't follow updates for n900. I still have a modified linux kernel -- not sure if it's being supported yet. | 14:11 |
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| freemangordon | vi__: well, I tend to always try to help people, idiots included :) | 18:39 |
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| vi__ | freemangordon: I did not choose the thumb2 life, the thumb2 life chose me. | 18:57 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: they're trying to get you! run! run for the hills! | 20:30 |
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| mashina | run for your liveesssss | 21:09 |
| freemangordon | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHLdg_VNww | 21:10 |
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| mashina | so predictable! | 21:16 |
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| freemangordon | hehe | 21:24 |
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| xes | hello there! After a few strace sessions to investigate about the modest performace, i think i have found a trick that could increase the maemo performace systewide... SO ... i would ask for testers and ideas to understand this behavior (if it's the same also for you). The trick is: ln -s /usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons Strange? Stupid? maybe... but try it | 21:46 |
| kerio | u wot | 21:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 22:06 |
| freemangordon | kerio: what is strange is that modest interaction really seems faster | 22:06 |
| kerio | >implying anyone uses modest | 22:06 |
| freemangordon | wut? | 22:07 |
| freemangordon | I use it | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, only modest (the modest modest mail app)? | 22:07 |
| freemangordon | guys, wait, the point is that it could have a system-wide speedup. If true | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>that could increase the maemo performace systewide<< | 22:08 |
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| freemangordon | because I doubt modest is using /usr/share/icons without help from some lib. gtk? | 22:08 |
| freemangordon | but we need a confirmation/not | 22:09 |
| freemangordon | and a testcase | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I know xes and his experience and very understatement way to post things. But that... needs a *tad* more rationale before I invest any time into it. Since without proper understand on how it's meant to work, I can't check if it actually does | 22:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | also I wonder if a ln -s /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons wasn't even more effective, if that whole thing is any effective at all | 22:16 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 22:16 |
| kerio | i doubt it's the actual path resolution | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and then, why not already ln /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons | 22:16 |
| kerio | linux's VFS is good enough | 22:16 |
| freemangordon | kerio: but what could be then? | 22:17 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: because you can't hardlink directories :s | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh, I can't? | 22:17 |
| kerio | not even root can | 22:17 |
| kerio | do you think you're better than root? | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do you think you can beat me at trolling ;-P | 22:18 |
| kerio | mount --bind /opt/usr/share/icons /home/user/.icons | 22:18 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: DocScrutinizer05: the reason could be that someone tries access() or open() or whatever for /home/user/.icons first | 22:18 |
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| kerio | indeed! | 22:18 |
| kerio | but why does that cause a performance hit? | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | hmm, gtk rc? | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: thought as much | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also I fail to see the mega performance impact | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | trying to preload the whole theme? | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a stat() is utterly fast, particularly when done often in sequence (and otherwise it wouldn't matter anyway) since then all relevant disk blocks are in biffers already | 22:21 |
| kerio | indeed | 22:21 |
| freemangordon | xes: according to your strace, what modests looks for in /home/user/.icons? | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | buffers even | 22:21 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 22:21 |
| xes | freemangordon: all the icons of the gtk theme | 22:22 |
| kerio | ...ok, that could cause a performance hit | 22:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how so? | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's still only a few hundred stat() | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to a non-existing dir | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | always same dir | 22:23 |
| xes | modest searches for icons also in /usr/local/share/icons | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ( /home/user/.icons ) | 22:23 |
| freemangordon | xes: what finction it executes? | 22:24 |
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| freemangordon | *function | 22:24 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: open() | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't change much | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | hmm there are hundreds of icons | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think a failing open() is as fast as a failing stat() | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | yep, but calling that hundreds of times takes time | 22:25 |
| xes | you are free to try: strace -e open -p _modest_pid_ | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did you use profiling/timestamping in strace? | 22:25 |
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| freemangordon | xes: does that happen only when starting modest? | 22:26 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: no | 22:26 |
| xes | freemangordon: i have straced only modest but i'm almost sure the behavior is valid also for other apps | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet N900 can execute 1000s of failing open() to same pathname per second | 22:26 |
| xes | i have also add a few other symlinks.... i have to check, i can't remember, it seems that it' s searching for many things in the wrong places | 22:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: for (i=0; i<1000000; i++); open("/home/user/foobar"); | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | time a.out | 22:28 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: sure. This is what i was expecting.... but this is now what i think i have obtained | 22:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: it definitely does, since you can override virtually every file by a similar file in your home dir | 22:29 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer51: going to try it | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: stop! | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: thoug, it is not exactly correct, it should be foobar%d IMO | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: for (i=0; i<1000000; i++); open("/home/user/$i"); | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for wrong syntax | 22:31 |
| xes | sorry.... *this is not what i think i have obtained | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | xes: hmm? | 22:32 |
| xes | i mean ...i wasn't expecting a speedup. But this is what i'm experiencing | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah | 22:33 |
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| freemangordon | xes: do you remember open() flags? | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | O_RDONLY? | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you see a speedup where you only expected a theoretical improvement that you wouldn't expect to have any noticeable effect? | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: yep | 22:34 |
| xes | freemangordon: sorry i should test it again, it's been a few days since first test | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, who knows | 22:35 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: yep | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xes: we already are about to test it ;-D | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though strace with timestamps/profiling would be highly appreciated too, of course | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | was that strace that even prints statistics of average/min/max duration for each function called? | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | iterating 1000000 times takes ages | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | Nokia-N900:~# time ./opentest | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | real 0m 33.67s | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | user 0m 5.02s | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | sys 0m 26.62s | 22:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ages? | 22:37 |
| freemangordon | will try 10000 times | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's 26us per open() | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | yep | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | about what I expected | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | combine that with /usr/share/local | 22:38 |
| freemangordon | so 50us per open | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you mean the symlink dereference? | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | I mean that it searches /home/user first, then /usr/share/local and then /usr/share | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 22:40 |
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| freemangordon | keep in mind my device is OC to 805 | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though, correctly:twice the number of open() calls | 22:40 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but then, how many icons can a arbitrary app open()? | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1000? | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 5000? | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: not sure how many of them are in the gtk theme | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | but there are lots of them | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | I'd say thousands | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | an app will not open all existing icons, only the ones it needs | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | iirc gtk builds a list | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :EEEEK: | 22:42 |
| freemangordon | not sure about that one though | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | list processing is DA SHITE, the killer for every program | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAM is slow mainly for list processing I guess | 22:43 |
| freemangordon | but iirc everytime you create a new GtkStyle (or whatever it was called) you got a copy of the default style | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use strace, and time | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will tell | 22:44 |
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| freemangordon | xes: when those open()calls happe? only on modest startup or all over the place | 22:44 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: HAM is slow, because libapt (c++ library) is slow in iterating all of packages | 22:45 |
| xes | ps aux | grep modest and strace -e open -p the second one. Then open modest app | 22:45 |
| Pali | I already found hot code (for loop), but there is no way how to speed up it | 22:45 |
| freemangordon | xes: op | 22:45 |
| freemangordon | *ok | 22:46 |
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| xes | freemangordon: then start opening mails from your inbox... | 22:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, can't do since no modest configured here | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | xes: about 5 open() call per mail | 22:50 |
| freemangordon | not much of a win | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: you might be right (re dir hardlinks) | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -d, -F, --directory | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | allow the superuser to attempt to hard link directories (note: will probably fail due to system restrictions, even for the superuser) | 22:51 |
| xes | freemangordon: yep. Not enough to explain the difference | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | xes: this has no visible effect | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty verbose explanation | 22:51 |
| kerio | i'm not "probably" right | 22:51 |
| kerio | i'm right | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, you're *probably* right, since >>note: will *probably* fail << | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it depends on filesystem | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and on build options | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | xes: it'd be good if you can do some real measurement, like DocScrutinizer05 proposed ^^^, with strace timing | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -c Count time, calls, and errors for each system call and report a summary on program exit. On Linux, this attempts to show system time (CPU time spent running | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in the kernel) independent of wall clock time. If -c is used with -f or -F (below), only aggregate totals for all traced processes are kept. | 22:53 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: ext* FS does not allow you to create hard link on directories | 22:53 |
| Pali | ext* kernel drivers reject it | 22:53 |
| Pali | and I think that in recent kernel versions also VFS reject it | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: that's what I suspected | 22:54 |
| Pali | but I read that somebody successfully edited ext4 kernel driver (removed restriction) and it worked :-) | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough on NTFS it works | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | Pali: seems like you and fbalbi will become friends at the end :D | 22:55 |
| Pali | but there was problem with find utility | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though only with a special tool | 22:55 |
| Pali | but after next fsck.ext4 call, it removed that duplicate directory hard-link | 22:55 |
| kerio | the filesystem tree should be a directed acyclic graph | 22:55 |
| kerio | if you allow directory hardlinks, you add the possibility for cycles | 22:56 |
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| kerio | and that would confuse the hell out of everyone | 22:56 |
| Pali | kerio: right, DAG is very good for FS :-) | 22:56 |
| kerio | bindmounts don't have bindmounts in them | 22:56 |
| kerio | that's why they're allowed | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: LOL | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | @ fsck | 22:56 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: so if you create somehow direcory hardlink (hexedit /dev/sda), then every FS code/part will remove it :D | 22:57 |
| Pali | kernel driver, fsck, ... | 22:57 |
| kerio | does fsck do "garbage collection"? | 22:57 |
| kerio | like, if you forcibly remove a directory entry | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: indeed I thnk that's what I did in kernel 1.x | 22:57 |
| kerio | but the files inside are still there | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I laughed my ass off | 22:57 |
| kerio | yeah, such fun | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for reminding me on that episode | 22:58 |
| kerio | also, kernel 1? | 22:58 |
| kerio | holy shit you're old | 22:58 |
| Pali | kerio: fsck will connect disconnected directories/files to /lost+found | 22:58 |
| kerio | Pali: ooh right | 22:58 |
| kerio | that's what it's for | 22:58 |
| Pali | here is that post but is in czech: https://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/urandom/2011/11/hardlink-na-adresare (but maybe there are other sk/cz people) | 23:03 |
| Pali | most important is: directory hardlink to / is really bad idea, it is not possible to unlink it! | 23:04 |
| kerio | LOL | 23:04 |
| Pali | and it make sense, that unlink is not possible | 23:04 |
| Pali | this is totally damaged FS, if you have two inodes which are / | 23:04 |
| kerio | is / a particular inode? | 23:08 |
| kerio | like, is it always 0 or 1 | 23:08 |
| Pali | hm... yes, / is some magic inode... but what fsck can do if it finds more / inodes? | 23:13 |
| kerio | stop, drop and roll | 23:13 |
| kerio | ok | 23:14 |
| kerio | to be fair | 23:14 |
| kerio | any entry for / inside a directory is wrong | 23:14 |
| kerio | obviously | 23:14 |
| Pali | yes | 23:14 |
| Pali | https://www.xkcd.com/981/ | 23:16 |
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| xes | freemangordon: i have tried a few test with strace -Tttt and -c ... nothing gives a result that could justify a better performance | 23:38 |
| freemangordon | xes: well, the it is a placebo :) | 23:38 |
| freemangordon | *then | 23:38 |
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| xes | freemangordon: yes, could be a placebo.. Did you observed some difference? | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | yes, but it might be because of some background activity | 23:41 |
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| xes | freemangordon: background activity? | 23:46 |
| freemangordon | yep, someone else yeating CPU cycles and slowing a bit modes | 23:46 |
| freemangordon | *eating | 23:46 |
| xes | btw, other apps are searching for /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache (for example hildon-status-menu) but that file does not exist. Do you have it? | 23:55 |
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| freemangordon | xes: no | 23:56 |
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