IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-11-06

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M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: thanks for finding the issue :)00:01
M4rtinKI've added it to the issue tracker (
M4rtinKhopefully should be an easy fix00:01
sixwheeledbeastnp, I thought I was doing something wrong00:01
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M4rtinKBTW, for what I'm currently working on:00:04
M4rtinK* Qt 5 GUI based on PyOtherSide (the asynchronous Python-Qt interface from thp )00:05
M4rtinK* finally getting the Monav routing data repository back in order00:05
M4rtinK+ the usual assorted stuff :)00:06
sixwheeledbeast:) cool00:09
M4rtinKnox-: thanks :)00:12
nox-would be cool to see monav working again :)00:13
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M4rtinKMonav the app ?00:15
M4rtinKor the Monav routing support in modRana ?00:15
nox-i saw the app fail, routing db incompatible or so00:16
nox-is it better in modrana?00:16
M4rtinKas long as you have working data packs, it should work fine in modRana00:17
M4rtinKthose are a bit outdated, but should work fine:
M4rtinKthese might be a bit corrupted at the moment:
M4rtinKand there is a guide how to use them:
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nox-thx, might try that later00:21
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sixwheeledbeastDoes it still not support address to address routing?00:28
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M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: online does, offline (Monav routing) is point to point only00:48
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: Monav actually can work with addresses and has its own optimized address storage format00:49
sixwheeledbeastbut modRana can't?00:49
M4rtinKthe Monav routing server modRana is using00:50
M4rtinK(using localhost sockets and PBFs by the way)00:50
M4rtinKonly accepts geographic coordinates for start and destination00:51
M4rtinKand there is no Python compatible interface to the file format00:51
M4rtinKit is documented, so it would be possible to make a python parser for it00:52
M4rtinKbut it will be quite a lot of work00:52
M4rtinK(for the format)00:52
M4rtinKor not, not sure as I haven't done something like this yet00:53
M4rtinKso doable, but quite time intensive :)00:53
sixwheeledbeastmmm, I see. So where does the online routing data come from?00:55
M4rtinKmodRana uses the Google Map API for online routing00:58
M4rtinKat the moment00:58
M4rtinKthat can work with both coordinates & addresses00:58
M4rtinKand theoretically if you are online01:00
M4rtinKyou can use address search (which uses the Nominatim geocoding API)01:01
M4rtinKto to manually find the start and destination and then start point-to-point offline routing with Monav :)01:01
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sixwheeledbeastSo you are at home on WiFi and search for destination then leave with no data scenario01:03
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M4rtinKyeah, basically01:15
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Win7Mac looks great today! very promising development, congrats!02:15
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DocScrutinizer05thanks, been a bit of work to get there, even the simplest changes need careful thinking and discussions, and of course coding and review02:18
DocScrutinizer05but yeah, now it looks like it's supposed to, once again02:19
Win7Macthought so, awesome job, respect!02:19
sonowb doc02:19
* sono finally gets around to installing modrana02:19
DocScrutinizer05most of it is dos1's awesome work02:19
DocScrutinizer05maybe what's missing: "we won't produce for the shelf, we build to order"02:21
sonoyea, i keep mentioning that in addition02:21
DocScrutinizer05actually odds are we won't have any devices to sell to those who didn't donate >=100EUR02:22
sonoplan is to keep donating during the project until i "bought" one02:22
sonoi suppose others think alike02:22
sonoit does make sense02:23
Win7Maci think a lot of people would opt for board only02:23
DocScrutinizer05thought that complicates our statistics, it's much appreciated nevertheless02:23
sonoit also makes it much easier for me to pay, and results in a steady cash flow02:24
DocScrutinizer05if 100 people donate 7 times 100 EUR, we might end up with 700 N900 we bought to recover spare parts from them, and no money left to build the 100 boards02:25
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DocScrutinizer05so make sure you always mention the previous order-confirmation number in your donation, so Nikolaus can concatenate them into one "order"02:26
sonoi wouldn't have done that02:27
sonothanks for the notice02:27
DocScrutinizer05right now our progress bar shows donations, not unique donors, and it doesn't check at all for the amount of the donations (>=100?)02:27
DocScrutinizer05of course when your donations are <100 per donation, then our book-keeping gets much simpler, since those don't count as a new device to produce02:28
Win7Macis there an end date set to the fundraising period yet?02:29
DocScrutinizer05we don't really plan to ever end the fundraiser (well we might when the last device got produced)02:30
DocScrutinizer05some day in the future we will announce "OK, tomorrow we open real preorder page: in two weeks we start to produce a device for everybody who preordered" and you can claim your rebates on that preorder page for two weeks02:32
DocScrutinizer05after that, it's a new world02:32
Win7Macsounds great02:33
Win7Maclet me know if HiFo can do anything for neo900 (or anything else)02:36
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DocScrutinizer05well, I think apart from spreading the word, there's little HiFo could do02:38
DocScrutinizer05thanks nevertheless :-)02:38
Win7Maci spread among those few linux-interested guys i know, but i'm not using any social netorks...02:40
Win7Mac*the word02:40
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Win7Maclatest change to looks even better! it's focussed on number of devices (boards, actually), which is more important than amount of money03:06
Win7Mac2 bars for both would be perfect ;)03:06
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qwerty123 solution to that getting frozen device is optimizen900. Idk why, but it works ( for last two time ).DocScrutinizer05:03:59
qwerty123Have put optimizen900 on home screen and whenever the phone goes into that state, simply click on optimizen900. It works.04:02
mashina_figure out the cause and a prevention04:03
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qwerty123If i could recreate the problem at will, i would have figured out the answer. Atleast for now, i know one of theprocesses in the optimizen900 script causes the problem, else its restarting wouldnot have been the solution.04:06
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felipecanybody tries the latest upstream kernels?05:03
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keriofelipec: ask Pali and freemangordon08:22
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felipeckerio: I found this
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jon_yhi, how do I import sms from sim card?12:54
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DocScrutinizer05I don't know if there's a reasonable feasible method at all for this12:58
jon_yhmm ok13:00
DocScrutinizer05particularly since nowadays it's mostly useless feature, no device stores SMS on SIM anymore. Not even my year2000 nokia 6210 did this, it distributed them arbitrarily between SIM and device storage, with a max of 15orso SMS on the SIM - then the storage of a standard SIM is used up13:01
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: my old phone does13:01
jon_yNokia 10113:01
jon_ymore like a hundred of them13:01
DocScrutinizer05yes, those old phones which have a "SMS storage full" alert as well, those actually do this13:02
DocScrutinizer05My Siemens C25 did13:02
jon_yright they did13:02
jon_yexcept it works again after deleting old messages13:02
jon_ynow I want to import existing messages13:02
DocScrutinizer05you shouldn't try to do this via SIM13:03
jon_yhmm how else do you do it? it is a dumb phone13:03
DocScrutinizer05it's basically as futile as trying to export rich contacts via SIM phonebook13:03
jon_y"Please search before ceating a new post- this has been covered extensivly.   not possible now but it is being activly worked on. in future updates to sync and pc suite."13:03
jon_ylooks like Nokia says no13:04
jon_yoh well13:04
jon_yat least the old messages are still in there13:04
DocScrutinizer05you can read out SIM card with arbitrary cardreaders13:04
jon_ycontacts transfered fine though13:04
jon_yI don't mind manually deleting a few dupes13:04
DocScrutinizer05you can *try* to access SIM via pnatd and standard AT command set13:05
DocScrutinizer05but I think BB5 doesn't support much of SIM storage access13:05
DocScrutinizer05or maybe pnatd doesn't know how to support it13:06
DocScrutinizer05a command13:06
DocScrutinizer05shell command13:06
jon_yok, will look it up13:06
DocScrutinizer05you also need to learn about AT cmd set13:06
jon_yI need a semi-smart phone to read the SMS to the nokia PC suite, maybe13:07
jon_yand then dump it back to the n90013:07
DocScrutinizer05also see gnokii and kandy13:08
jon_yok, thanks13:08
jon_ywhich package contains pnatd?13:09
jon_yor does it come ootb?13:09
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DocScrutinizer05pnatd comes OOTB13:10
DocScrutinizer05you need to close shell to stop it, or kill it from second shell13:10
DocScrutinizer05once started it talks to the modem and can't get stopped by ^C etc13:10
jon_yjust press the X in the corner, got it13:11
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: also, sms delivery report, does the service provider charge?13:12
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DocScrutinizer05usually not13:12
jon_ydepends on service provider?13:12
DocScrutinizer05I can't share info I don't have ;-)13:13
DocScrutinizer05*my* delivery reports are free of charge13:13
joshgilliesany package maintainers out there have any thoughts around adding paths to $PATH when a package is installed13:14
DocScrutinizer05I'm not aware of any global regulation saying "delivery report MUST be free of charge"13:14
DocScrutinizer05joshgillies: usually a pretty bad idea13:14
joshgilliesI thought as much13:14
DocScrutinizer05add your app (or a symlink) to the standard path13:14
joshgilliesthat's what I'm doing currently (symlink)13:15
DocScrutinizer05optification frequently does exactly this13:15
joshgillieshowever, as I'm packaging a development tool that ships its own package manager, the issue I'm running into is when global modules installed they aren't in the path13:16
DocScrutinizer05well, then you're already done with it13:16
kolpDelivery report charges: definitely depend on provider. I've been somewhere where they charged13:16
DocScrutinizer05joshgillies: modules?13:17
kolpBut that was only one country out of quite a few :)13:17
DocScrutinizer05delivery reports usually fail epically when roaming13:17
joshgilliesexactly, so I'm pacaking the latest Nodejs and with it you can install node applications globally via npm13:18
joshgilliesthese global apps/modules are installed by default to /opt/nodejs/bin13:18
DocScrutinizer05never heard of any of those13:18
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: I finally switched back to my n90013:18
jon_ybecause sim card full of sms :(13:18
jon_ywell, n900 don't seem to have a limit13:18
jon_y*practical limit13:18
joshgilliesSo I'm looking for some advise as to how to manage this moving forward13:19
jon_yalso, how do I best protect my n900 until I can get some cover for it?13:20
joshgilliesand as with the previous question all I can think of is the hack via adding /opt/nodejs/bin to the path13:20
jon_ydoes ESD bag in pocket work? :)13:20
DocScrutinizer05 /opt/nodejs/bin sounds like a app specific location to store binaries, and each such binary needs a symlink when user is supposed to call it directly. When it's only your app using them in a library-alike way, you should use absolute path aka FQN in your code, to invole them13:20
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joshgilliesI was wondering whether the Ruby guys had solved this, given that npm is to node what gems are to Ruby13:22
jon_yor will any thick enough pouch protect the screen?13:22
DocScrutinizer05joshgillies: another usual way is: the main app uses own binary's path to search it for any libs or modules13:22
joshgillieshrmm interesting...13:23
DocScrutinizer05so if your main app is in /opt/nodjsFOOBAR/bin/MAIN, then it uses dirname( /opt/nodjsFOOBAR/bin/MAIN ) to search for modules13:24
joshgilliesI've just had a thought, possibly around rolling a helper npm that I place into /usr/bin, that basically passes the usual `npm install module` syntax but appends it with --prefix which from what I can see in the docs tells npm where to place the binaries13:24
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DocScrutinizer05never heard about npm13:25
DocScrutinizer05sounds icky13:25
joshgilliesyeah sorry if I'm speaking in tongues over here :)13:25
joshgilliescrazy Javascript developers13:25
jon_yanother package manager of sorts13:25
jon_yjavascript guys are full of crazy13:26
joshgilliessilar to pip for python or gems for ruby13:26
jon_ythey wrote an x86 emulater in javascript13:26
* DocScrutinizer05 facepalms13:26
joshgilliesNow now gentlemen :)13:26
joshgilliesanyway some good input from DocScrutinizer05 which I'll take away and mill over for a bit13:27
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jon_yso any advice for protecting the n900 screen in the pocket?13:29
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jon_ythe nokia support guys changed out my screen and removed the screen protector13:29
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ShadowJKscreen protector, duh.13:39
chem|stjon_y:do not put other things in the pocket with it... my screen has microscratches from the stylus only and I never used a screenprotextor ever13:43
vi__zagg invisible shield.13:43
vi__It is a bit expensive (9euro) but in my opinion the best.13:43
vi__I have had mine on for over a year and it looks as good as new.  No peeling at the edges etc.13:44
ShadowJKviquiti is my favourite13:44
vi__I used to use the vikuiti ones but they peel up at the edges after a couple of months.13:44
vi__They do offer a good range though.13:45
joshgilliesjust another thought relating to the above, I could package a helper script that sets up the appropriate environment in a subshell and leave it at that13:49
joshgilliesso the user has to opt in when they want to interact with node/npm13:49
vi__Just make sure you have a script to undo whatever you do.13:49
joshgilliesand when the leave it's cleared up13:49
joshgilliesif it's just a child process that should happen when the process is terminated right?13:50
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jon_yShadowJK: I doubt I can find one for the n900 these days13:54
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: is swappolube proposed good enough?13:55
vi__jon_y: y13:55
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DocScrutinizer05I recently seen this one on a device and liked it so much that I ordered another 3 packages:
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vi__I tried the matte ones, they make the screen look like shit in my opinion.14:01
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Herbstbertvi__: I suspect, you use the only-screen variant of the Zagg foil?14:13
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Wizzup_can I put the n900 in no-charging mode when it is for example a usb hotspot?15:18
Wizzup_I would like to save my laptop battery ;-)15:18
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Kabouik__Hey guys, I've a question about Harmattan, is that the right place to ask despite the chan's name?15:29
Kabouik__Oh alright, I thought the chan was for whole TMO15:29
SpeedEvilWizzup_: the simplest way is just to do 'stop bme'15:29
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Wizzup_SpeedEvil: ok15:36
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DocScrutinizer05Wizzup_: stop charging when hooked to PC? easy: stop bme15:56
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DocScrutinizer05Wizzup_: though honestly, I'd rather try to save my N900 battery that that laptop monster battery15:56
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: Wizzup_: though honestly, I'd rather try to save my N900 battery than that laptop monster battery15:57
DocScrutinizer05ooh, SpeedEvil beat me on it15:57
Wizzup_DocScrutinizer05, SpeedEvil Thank you15:58
Wizzup_DocScrutinizer05: well, I have three spare n900 batteries15:58
Wizzup_this chromebook battery lasts about 12 hours, but only 6 with n900 attached15:58
Wizzup_and I cannot replace the chromebook battery15:59
DocScrutinizer05well, THEN.... :-P15:59
DocScrutinizer05I however wonder if that reduction to 50% uptime is due to the charging or rather due to book-CPU constantly at C0 to serve USB16:00
Wizzup_this is the samsung ARM chromebook btw16:03
Wizzup_(which I can really recommend as a cheap but awesome netbook)16:03
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merlin1991I guess C0 is a cpu sleep state16:09
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sonolastlog sono18:56
sonoi need a marker script18:56
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RST38hElop! Elop! Elop!19:30
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keriowould you look at this20:39
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sonodon't invoke the elop so lightly20:44
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Woody14619sigh.. one more.  brb. :P21:32
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Woody14619Well, that worked better than I expected. :)21:40
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DocScrutinizer05err, realy?22:23
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