IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2013-11-05

Aggethe problem is that most 13.56 is encrypted so you need to brake it befor you can emulate it unless you do an active emulation00:00
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Aggethey implemented a system like that in one (Indonesian? general area) city that did have cards that you could load with money but it dident check if the card balance was corect when you used it so you could add more money anytime you wanted for free00:02
Aggeif they use the same implimentation as the american rfid card they can shop for unlimited amounts online with that information00:05
Aggethe talk about the payment system it was Taiwan not Indonesia00:06
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Aggelooks like the german ID cards includes RFID and that some german retailers have begun using RFID00:16
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DocScrutinizer05Agge: many thanks for that hint! I actually first time made N9 do some NFC - with my passport :-)00:23
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DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: never seen any such thing yet00:24
Aggenice. do it have the decryption programs?00:24
DocScrutinizer05nah, emty tag00:24
M4rtinKI remember people unlocking Angry Birds levels with passports on the N900:24
Aggedid it say writable or read only?00:25
Aggeyeah you can often bind finctions to the tag id :)00:25
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kolpIt'd be great if you could integrate a tiny microwave in the Neo900 to fry RFID chips in passports, etc >:(00:34
Aggewhat would be the max size that could be used for an inductive charging antenna? I have seen devices with antennas that is less then 4*2,5cm00:34
Aggeyou might be able to use that kolp ^00:35
wmaronekolp: problem there is that usually leaves scorch marks00:35
Hurriantoo bad the N9 doesn't do NFC emulation.00:35
kolpmin size you mean, Agge? My palm pre's seems to be about 3,5x3,500:36
Aggethanks for the idea I need to test if an induction charge pad can fry rfid chips :)00:36
Hurrianlots of newer hotels use RFID in that band, you can sniff and replay the UID.00:36
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Aggekolp, I was thinking about part 15 in the neo900 feasibility document00:37
Aggethe antenna size is probably the same just an other about the same in the end00:38
Aggejust an other coiling of the wire*00:39
DocScrutinizer05no, it won't. But a piezo spark of a lighter will kill all kinds of chips relatively reliable and without scortching00:39
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DocScrutinizer05or you use hard x-ray01:22
DocScrutinizer05very effective to erase eeproms/flash01:23
kolpFine with me as long as you can build it into the neo900 ;)01:23
Aggeor a HERF gun :)
DocScrutinizer05why would you want such a rough tool in a delicate device like Neo900?01:23
kolpTrue. I'd be happy with pads to connect the inductive charging coil01:24
kolpWhich was part of the original topic, iirc01:25
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M4rtinKI remember an X-Ray app in one of the coding competitions :)01:52
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AggeM4rtinK, you know that you can make hardware changes to some cameras to make them work for infra red?01:53
M4rtinKAgge: yep, just dump the infra filter01:54
M4rtinKAgge: well, they kinda already see in infrared01:54
M4rtinKAgge: the can see the light from infra remotes01:54
cehtehbut xray is on the other side of the visible spectrum01:54
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Aggeyeah but you ofthen need to add a visible light filter (exposed analoge film works)01:55
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M4rtinKAgge: and at least for the N900 camera, glowing charcoal looks like cryptonite :D01:55
M4rtinKAgge: yeah, can be a nice experiment01:55
Aggeanalogue film pick up xrays but you need a sorce of xrays to do anyting usefull for it01:55
Aggenice have to test that01:56
M4rtinKbut IIRC to get a real thermo camera, you need cooling & different ccd ?01:56
KenYoungYup, you need mid-IR for that,  not near-IR.01:56
M4rtinKbut still, for night vision with an infra flashlight it could be nice :)01:57
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Aggeto get higt resulution ir iirc yeah but low res is probibly simpler then regular camera chiops01:57
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vi__what is the design process of the neon900?10:50
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vi__I understand it is the GTA04 board, re-shaped to fit an n900 casing.10:50
vi__Who is doing the re-shaping?10:51
vi__What format are the schematics in?10:51
jon_ydidn't think it changed titles :)10:56
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vi__I found the feasibility study.11:20
vi__That is what I wanted to read.11:20
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Wizzupwow, the n900 donation made it11:27
* Wizzup is still planning to donate soonish11:27
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l4m3rxyep, the neo900 project seems to be starting up quite nicely ;]11:42
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anYcinteresting, css works on but not on www.maemo.org11:42
l4m3rxin microb?11:45
l4m3rxit seems to work normaly for me... just tested it.11:46
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ShadowJKcss on www is on port 8111:57
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anYccouldn't WMO refer to the css of TMO? I'm behind a firewall here12:04
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DrCodehi all12:44
DrCodewhen I my n900 connect to car bluetooth , my volume get mute12:44
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DrCodeany idea?12:44
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vi__kerio: yo12:52
vi__whats new with n900?12:52
vi__I have been away.12:53
keriomine has a broken wifi12:53
vi__okily dokily then.12:53
kerioapart for that... idk12:53
vi__How did you break the wifi?12:53
keriothe neo900 project12:53
kerioi have no idea12:53
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vi__time to pick up an n900 with a fooked screen on fleabay for $10.12:54
kerioi already have two n90012:54
kerioone has a broken musb, the other has a broken wifi12:54
vi__only 2?12:54
vi__I have ~4 working.12:54
keriodo you think i'm made of money dude12:54
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vi__:-!actually, maybe only 3 since the great CMT failure of 201.12:55
vi__actually, maybe only 3 since the great CMT failure of 2013.12:56
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ShadowJKmigrating to fifth n900, cmt fail13:25
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kolpI just started using the 4th (or 5th??) a few weeks ago because of that :/13:34
kolpRunning out of spares...13:34
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ShadowJKi have no more spares13:39
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l4m3rxi'm still on my first ...13:51
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DocScrutinizer05I'm actually on my first two still, though I admit wouldn't notice when t900 (devel device) cmt fails - no SIM14:15
DocScrutinizer05I start to wonder if cmt failure maybe is an EM problem similar to OC burnout but on the BB5 TX14:16
DocScrutinizer05IOW the cmt breaks after a certain amount of call-hours*TXpower^3 got used up, pa14:17
DocScrutinizer05-, pa14:17
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: are you living in an area with poor GSM signal? are you using GPRS a lot or doing many long phonecalls?14:18
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DocScrutinizer05I goddamn wish Nokia would disclose the results of their internal failure analysis regarding that cmt breakage14:19
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DocScrutinizer05** RECOVERY Service Alert: is OK **15:33
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DocScrutinizer05~seen thedead144015:44
infobotthedead1440 is currently on #maemo (16d 16h 24m 34s) #n9 (16d 16h 24m 34s) #harmattan (16d 16h 24m 34s) #meego (16d 16h 24m 34s) #maemo-ssu (16d 16h 24m 34s), last said: 'hehe'.15:44
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Tekk_congrats DocScrutinizer05!16:03
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DocScrutinizer05>>I know that. I was just saying that you can't say people don't trust Canonical. If they had set their goal at 12 million they would have 480 times more money.<<  Answer: with a community ~10000 times larger, driven by a company definitely 10^9 times larger16:04
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Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: you have a company for phoenux? :P16:04
DocScrutinizer05>>OpenPhoenux Neo900: 25k€ funded in less than a week! Donations are still open and qualify for a rebate on a finished device.<< Answer: but they asked for 200+ donations of >100EUR and have only reached ~80 so far16:05
DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: GolDeliCo of course is a company16:05
DocScrutinizer05@all: if anybody can get bothered to answer - much appreciated. I don't have neither want an account on reddit16:06
Tekk_oh, any hope for a gecko update in the future or too ram heavy?16:06
Tekk_oh! probably a problem of gtkmozembed right?16:06
Tekk_doesn't web use some ancient gecko?16:07
DocScrutinizer05what is "web" ?16:07
Tekk_default browser16:07
Tekk_as opposed to the gnome browser of the same name16:08
Tekk_google sites complain about support for my browser being dropped soon and some sites flat out don't work unless I use midori16:08
vi__DocScrutinizer05: reddit requires no authentication on account creation.  Just choose a username and password.  No emails involved.16:10
vi__so get in there and educate those gnuobs16:12
Tekk_oh, any suggestions for good games in the repos? I'm waiting to board a several hour flight16:14
DocScrutinizer05FUCKYOUREDDIT! I blocked all cookies of that site since they were annoying and a bazillion. Now it doesn't let me log in16:14
Tekk_how else do you expect them to know you're logged in? http is connectionless16:15
vi__Tekk_: emulators16:16
vi__The majority of n900 games suck asses.16:17
Tekk_vi__ already have them. I was wondering if there was native good stuff16:17
vi__with the exception of nethack.16:17
vi__You know nethack...right?16:17
Tekk_nethack has problematic stairs :P16:17
Tekk_sil seems okay too16:17
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vi__unfortunatley my game gripper weared the tops off some of my keys :(16:18
Tekk_you need angle braces to go down stairs unless you remap16:18
Tekk_which aren't on the default keyboard16:18
vi__I have run a 'fuller' keyboard for about 2 yeas.16:18
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vi__I have < > on shift+blue+v/b16:19
Tekk_I've been trying to figure one out but the very limited key space is annoying16:19
vi__what language are you using?16:19
Tekk_us english16:19
vi__~search vi16:19
Tekk_hm, blue+shift may be helpful16:20
vi__ffs, how do you search irc thingies again?16:20
Tekk_bot may just be broken16:20
infobot:), vi__16:21
Tekk_you have curlies in your map too? being able to do some perl would be nice16:21
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kolp~listkeys vi16:21
infobotFactoid search of 'vi' by key (12 of 1075): aravind ;; baldvin ;; bizarre 1999 invitation intro ;; devilish ;; emulate otravi ;; giving each other wedgies after gym class. this ;; gservices ;; hitachi vibrator ;; jargon elvish ;; list bakemono with travis's foot up his ass, where ;; mixview ;; productivity.16:21
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vi__~listkeys vik16:22
infobotFactoid search of 'vik' by key (14 of 25): bondevik ;; vikas ;; weathercode reykjavik ;; weathercode makkovik ;; weathercode nanisivik ;; craft: the viscious vikings ;; weathercode kjevik ;; weathercode narvik ;; vikram ;; weathercode inuvik ;; weathercode ornskoldsvik ;; weathercode aklavik ;; viking ;; weathercode ivvavik park.16:22
vi__~listkeys vi_16:22
infobotFactoid search of 'vi_' by key returned no results.16:22
vi__~listkeys vi__16:22
infobotFactoid search of 'vi__' by key returned no results.16:22
vi__~listkeys vi___16:22
infobotFactoid search of 'vi___' by key returned no results.16:22
vi__they have all been delted!16:22
Tekk_oh vi__, nspeed is okay as far as native games16:23
Tekk_very reminiscent of f zero16:23
vi__The truth is I rarely have time for games anymore.16:24
vi__or the paience.16:24
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vi__tekk: make sure your keymap is working before you reboot16:26
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vi__otherwise you may end up with a non-booting device.16:26
Tekk_now to try to remember how to copy in the browser16:27
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Tekk_well it's more a selection problem than a copy one16:28
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Tekk_xkb allow /* */ comments? that's probably easier than doing all //16:29
vi__I have no idea16:30
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vi__xkb is an un-documented mix of magic and hate for humanity.16:31
Tekk_at least it fits with the rest of X then16:31
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Tekk_it'd be nice if setxkbmap gave some sort of help in  errors..16:39
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vi__You have an error?16:42
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Tekk_yeah, just need to figure out again how to select...16:46
vi__how to select?16:47
Tekk_select text in the browser16:47
vi__please tell me you are doing this via ssh on a real computer with a real keyboard...16:47
vi__to select text in browser swipe from the bottom left of the screen to the top right to make the pointer appear.16:48
Tekk_nope. don't have access to one of those atm16:48
vi__press the pointer button.16:48
vi__select text.16:48
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Tekk_thanks vi__, works17:08
Tekk_forgot a curlie then had to board17:08
vi__it is liberating to have a 'fuller' keyboard.17:09
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vi__as liberating as an open air dump.17:10
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zamn900hi all... how to lock with terminal command?17:40
zamn900lock the screen17:40
anYcI don't know either, but in the wiki, there was a list of usefull commands17:42
Siceloquickest way to to install 'phone-control' package.. otherwise you can use dbus directly17:42
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zamn900here we re17:47
zamn900dbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/mce/request string:"locked"17:48
Siceloif you like it that way, lol17:51
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SAiFanybody got the flash 12 packages. ?17:54
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Sicelo12? for Maemo? i'm sure that's not more than a wish17:58
SAiFI meant that faking packages.17:58
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SAiFwell its really adobe-flashplayer-10.deb  binaries. and we fake it to flash 12. The links dont seem to work. Does anybody got it?18:03
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DocScrutinizer05~listkeys vis_awesome_kbdmapping18:48
infobotFactoid search of 'vis_awesome_kbdmapping' by key returned no results.18:48
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues vis_awesome_kbdmapping18:48
infobotFactoid search of 'vis_awesome_kbdmapping' by value returned no results.18:48
infobotFactoid search of '' by value returned no results.18:48
DocScrutinizer05~listauthor vi_18:49
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infobotfrom memory, keyremap is
DocScrutinizer05~listauth vi_18:49
infobotfactoid author list by 'vi_' returned no results.18:49
sixwheeledbeastbottom of page :)18:49
DocScrutinizer05~listauth vi__18:49
infobotfactoid author list by 'vi__' returned no results.18:49
DocScrutinizer05~listauth vi___18:49
infobotfactoid author list by 'vi___' returned no results.18:49
DocScrutinizer05~listauth vi18:50
infobotfactoid author list by 'vi' returned no results.18:50
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo keyremap18:50
infobotkeyremap -- created by MohammadAG51 <~MohammadA@> at Thu Jul  1 20:22:51 2010 (1222 days); it has been requested 4 times, last by sixwheeledbeast, 57s ago.18:50
DocScrutinizer05that's not vi_ related18:50
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sixwheeledbeastthe bottom of the wiki page is the link to vi's18:51
DocScrutinizer05sure, but I know there been a factoid18:51
sixwheeledbeastk, sorry. IIRC you did that last time and give up18:52
DocScrutinizer05yes, since it's impossible to search for vi18:52
SAiFDoc took a 3hr break in 1 hr, right Doc?18:53
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo awesome-keymap is
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay18:53
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: my clock works different18:53
DocScrutinizer05but i'm afk again now18:53
sixwheeledbeast~listauth vi*18:54
infobotfactoid author list by 'vi*' (18 of 42): /.config usually ;; 1024? what ;; alt+printscreen+ub ;; carrot ;; could u aswear this one: what ;; d21 d21 ;; docscrutinizer05 ;; fact apt ;; frankyfourfinger ;; ftppassive ;; garoeda ;; gh0sty gh0sty ;; googlesyncevolution ;; helldeskgriep ;; keri0 ;; lugwv_050304 ;; np nvidia ;; p3lim.18:54
sixwheeledbeastfactinfo keri018:54
sixwheeledbeast~factinfo keri018:54
infoboterror: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required)18:54
infobotkeri0 -- created by vi__ <~user@> at Tue Aug  7 21:22:32 2012 (454 days).18:54
DocScrutinizer05~forget /.config usually18:56
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot /.config usually18:56
DocScrutinizer05~forget 1024? what18:56
infoboti forgot 1024? what, DocScrutinizer0518:56
DocScrutinizer05~literal docscrutinizer0518:57
infobot"docscrutinizer05" is "<reply>see DocScrutinizer"18:57
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo docscrutinizer0518:57
infobotdocscrutinizer05 -- created by vi__ <5860d978@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> at Fri Jul 27 09:02:56 2012 (466 days); last modified at Fri Jul 27 09:03:55 2012 by DocScrutinizer05!~HaleBopp@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 6 times, last by SAiF at Tue Aug 13 10:41:09 2013; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer05.18:57
Gh0stywhy does infobot highlight me?18:57
SAiFme too?18:58
sixwheeledbeastfactinfo gh0sty gh0sty18:58
sixwheeledbeast~factinfo gh0sty gh0sty18:58
infoboterror: you do not have enough flags for that. (o required)18:58
infobotgh0sty gh0sty -- created by vipe <n=vipe@lugwv/member/vipe> at Fri Nov  4 14:48:59 2005 (2923 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by pcj at Fri Nov 21 10:46:58 2008.18:58
Gh0styand what does that mean?18:58
Gh0stythis is that old silly generic bot thing18:58
Gh0stythats a long time ago :P18:58
sixwheeledbeastyou have a factiod in your name18:59
Gh0styrikerbot or something isnt it ?18:59
Gh0stylol 3000 days ago18:59
Gh0styam i that long on irc!18:59
sixwheeledbeastfactoid last used 2008 :)19:01
Gh0stycreated 200519:01
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SAiFgoing home19:05
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sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: I have noticed that in full screen mode there is no quit button on modRana?22:47
sixwheeledbeastIt that correct or is it hiding?22:48
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M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: yep, that is correct23:03
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: you can always either unfullscreen or just close it from the task switcher23:03
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: IMHO most apps behave like this in Fullscreen in Fremantle23:04
sixwheeledbeastok, seems I was looking for it "how do I quit". Thought it would be easy to add a button to menu?23:04
M4rtinKwell, it already has a quit button on some platforms :)23:05
M4rtinKwhere there is no close button in decoration23:06
M4rtinKIIRC Android chroot for example23:06
sixwheeledbeastPossibly because I am used to SMM10 having a quit button.23:06
M4rtinKsure, it might not be a bad idea to add it23:07
M4rtinKit basically means just setting needsQuitButton to True in the N900 device module23:07
M4rtinKand there are even two spots free in the main menu23:08
sixwheeledbeastmmm, so did you leave it out of N900 for a reason?23:09
M4rtinKdidn't occur to me it might be needed :)23:10
M4rtinKBTW, might be party because I'm using the camera button as to activate task switcher23:11
M4rtinKalso some users are using the power button menu and just kill apps23:11
sixwheeledbeastOk, maybe it's just me but I expected it to be there. taskswitcher is a pain to get to in car holder23:11
M4rtinKbut yeah, having it in the main menu should be faster23:11
M4rtinKgood point23:11
sixwheeledbeastI use camera button as skip track23:12
M4rtinKyeah, for car it should be a good improvement23:12
M4rtinKbtw, there should be "are you sure" screen after clicking the in app quit button23:12
sixwheeledbeastcome to think of it music controls would be handy in modrana :)23:13
M4rtinKso that it won't quite due to misclick23:13
sixwheeledbeasti don't see "are you sure" on quit here.23:13
M4rtinKwell, I mean for the main menu button23:14
sixwheeledbeastI see23:14
M4rtinKor at least I added that when adding the quit button23:14
M4rtinKwould be unfortunate if instead of getting to the track logging menu modRana would quit :)23:15
M4rtinKregarding music control23:15
M4rtinKthere is indeed a lot that could be improved23:16
M4rtinKlike adding hooks before/after espeak is speaking23:16
M4rtinKso people can hook scripts for pausing music23:16
M4rtinKand maybe even support pausing the default media player23:16
M4rtinKregarding control23:16
sixwheeledbeast:nod: pause and skip would be handy23:16
M4rtinKmodRana has a very rudimentary widget system23:17
M4rtinKthat could be improved a lot23:17
M4rtinKincluding playback control23:17
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M4rtinKit is on my todo list, but unfortunately there is also a lot of other stuff :)23:18
M4rtinKI think I last worked on the widgets back in 2010 for example23:18
M4rtinKso any help in this matter would be appreciated :)23:18
sixwheeledbeastI have voice guidance off TBH. I understand your TODO list is large.23:19
M4rtinKBTW, the widgets live here:
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M4rtinKas you can see, it is very very simple & not that efficient :)23:21
sixwheeledbeastI suddenly seem to be having trouble with downloading tiles23:21
M4rtinKoh, BTW, I've pushed the latest modRana to Extras-testing:
M4rtinK2 tester votes remaining before the Extras package can be updated ! :)23:22
M4rtinKwhich layer ?23:22
sixwheeledbeastall of them OSM Mapnik23:23
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sixwheeledbeastjust "Loading..." on every tile...mmm23:26
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M4rtinKseems to work fine here23:26
M4rtinKcheck options->network->network usage23:27
M4rtinKif it is set to "unlimited"23:27
M4rtinKotherwise it won't automatically download files23:27
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sixwheeledbeast"mapTiles: tile data returned by remote tileserver was not an image"23:28
sixwheeledbeastYep, Unlimited and I am on WiFi23:29
M4rtinKthis looks like the tileserver does not like you :)23:31
sonomodrana is?23:31
* sono clicks23:31
M4rtinKsono: the modRana flexible GPS navigation system :)23:32
sonolooks interesting23:32
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: the server is probably returning a html error page instead of a tile23:32
sonowoa. apparently i did not have the python deps yet. this ill have to wait until i get home.23:33
sixwheeledbeastwhere are tiles stored?23:33
M4rtinKby default23:33
sonoas a cyclist tho it looks interesting23:34
M4rtinKsono: looking forward to your feedback :)23:34
M4rtinKsono: BTW, modRana support bike-optimized offline navigation :)23:35
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M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: you can checkout what the server is actually sending you23:40
* sixwheeledbeast has NFC why it's not showing tiles23:40
M4rtinKsixwheeledbeast: by enabling "Tile loading status to terminal" in options->Debug->Tiles23:41
M4rtinKit will start printing stuff like this:23:41
M4rtinKloading tile mapnik_13_4540_279723:41
sixwheeledbeastthat's were I got the message quoted above23:41
M4rtinKthis corresponds to this URL23:42
M4rtinK(I really have to make it print the URL in the future for easier debugging)23:43
M4rtinKyou can try in browser or with wget23:44
M4rtinKand inspect what are aou getting23:44
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sixwheeledbeastM4rtinK: what does Map overlay settings do?23:49
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M4rtinKyou can have two layer at once23:51
M4rtinKif you set a layer that is not working over a working one with 100% opacity... :)23:51
M4rtinKhmm, looks like a usability issue :)23:51
sixwheeledbeastOk so I had no tiles with OSM mapnik as main and none as background.23:52
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M4rtinKhmm, so that is not the issue I guess23:53
M4rtinKbtw, I think "none" might be a bit problematic sometimes23:54
M4rtinKBTW, the QML GUI can overlay more than two layers23:54
M4rtinKbut can't remeber them just yet :D23:54
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sixwheeledbeastit's "map as overlay" setting with off I have tiles with on I have "Loading..."23:55
M4rtinKI'll check it out23:56
M4rtinKoh, right23:56
M4rtinKdefinitely a bug23:57
M4rtinKnow when I think about it, it combines the two tiles and caches the result23:57
M4rtinKto optimize cache usage23:57
M4rtinKwell, if one of the layers has no tiles, it can't combine them and waits forever :)23:58
sixwheeledbeastah that's it. with "map as overlay" on and "none" as secondary map. I can reproduce it.23:58
M4rtinKwell loads23:58
M4rtinKif you use two normal layers, it seems to work fine23:58
sixwheeledbeast:) I now have OSM and VE OS as secondary23:59

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