IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-11-01

NIN101wow, nice rate.00:00
HerbstfreudImpressive rate. o.O00:04
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: holy shit. Twice as big as I checked before00:05
Sysaxedseems like 25k is an easy task00:05
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: no? :(00:05
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't exactly call it "easy" given what we did during last 8 weeks00:05
Sysaxedthat's right, sorry00:06
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DocScrutinizer05anyway don't expect this to perpetuate ad infinitum like that00:06
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Sysaxedalso it seems like 6k were donated just by 6 people00:07
DocScrutinizer05we seen some substantial early donations, now it starts to get tough00:07
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Sysaxedholy shit00:11
Sysaxedcheck it agan00:11
dos1it's around 1300 EUR off00:12
dos1some of newest donations failed00:12
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dos1then repeated, and failed again00:13
dos1and all of them are counted00:13
dos1but we still should be somewhere aroung 12k00:13
Sysaxedoh.. :)00:13
dos1so at the morning it's going to decrease a bit00:14
Sysaxedjumped to 14k now, but still at the 12k, right?00:14
dos1hopefully that 4000 EUR donation went well :)00:14
Sysaxedeven if it didn't, I'm pretty sure that this person did that on purpose :) so if the money is not lost somewhere, he will do that again if needed00:15
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: I guess I know who did that 4k, and I'm rather sure that's a serious one01:16
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DocScrutinizer05will receive an invoce for "Neo900 hw prototype development" aiui01:17
DocScrutinizer05and afaik this is a national money transfer, so nothing should go awry with it01:19
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dos1meanwhile, 10 EUR has arrived :)01:25
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dos1so we're most probably off by no more than 2k01:26
dos1if varu's donation will finally proceed successfully, that is01:27
KenYoungTime to bump the top of the scale to 50,000.01:27
dos1so the initial correction will be around 3k01:27
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Guest20505anyone available, to check their /tmp/Xorg.0.conf on n900?04:20
Guest20505some kind of fs corruption after a reboot here, getting: "(WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/".04:20
Guest20505(==) FontPath set to:04:21
Guest20505which.. isnt sufficient04:21
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bjv1*bleh, and Empathy is being crummy with IRC as well04:30
bjv1ssh'd into the n900 so going to copy off some files,04:32
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nox-i have the same messages in Xorg.0.log on a working device04:40
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bjv1nox-:  Thanks,04:48
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bjv1seems to be i'm missing something from /home fs05:24
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freemangordon_DocScrutinizer05: this pre-authorization thingie (for donations) doesn't look good to me10:05
freemangordon_pre-auths are automatically canceled after 45 days if there is no completion10:06
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brolin_empeyInstead of asking strangers for candy I could buy for myself while it is priced to clear after Halloween, my Halloween night was spent as a “Ceroc Virgin” trying to (re)learn to dance with attractive women at a Ceroc dance event at a hall in Vancouver.10:25
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: huh?11:17
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I don't know what you're talking about11:19
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: "Our Credit Card Clearing processor has pre-authorized your Card and we will finally charge it when we ship your products or services."11:33
freemangordonthis is in the mail I got from sales at goldelico dot com11:34
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: there are no money transferred from my account to goldelico at that time, there is only a hold on my account for the amount of the preauthorization. afaik11:36
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: and i guess it is the same fo the others who donated over 50 euro11:37
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DocScrutinizer05no, the donations are "shipped" in a day or two11:39
DocScrutinizer05there's no goods to ship11:40
DocScrutinizer05the page is generic, it applies to the whole shop11:40
DocScrutinizer05err, the mail (as well)11:40
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ok, if you say so.11:43
DocScrutinizer05no, that's what Nikolaus says11:44
DocScrutinizer05we had one donor associated to FSF(E) who gave us a lot of arguing about the WLAN chip to use and why we can't provide closed firmware BLOBs for WLAN and BT (according to RMS), and finally he canceled his donation11:48
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: my concern is because  know banking shit, this is part of what I do for living. But if you(or Nikolaus) say it is expected to be that way, I am fine too11:48
freemangordon*I know11:48
DocScrutinizer05aiui Nikolaus is going to charge the CCs "manually" today11:48
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DocScrutinizer05for physical goods the shop would do that when shipping process is checkmarked as "done"11:49
DocScrutinizer05so basically Nik will "ship donations" today11:50
DocScrutinizer05all "afaik"11:50
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: for goods in the shop, noone does preathorizatio, but a so-called "notmal purchase" transactio11:50
freemangordonnormal even11:50
freemangordonpreauth is usually done on hotels or for rent-a-car, when the final transaction amount is not known in advance11:51
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I have no account and no saying in anything shop- and goldelico-website- related11:51
freemangordonso a hold for some amount is put on your CC account when you check-in, and the transaction is "completed" when you check-out11:51
freemangordonjust explaining how it works ::11:51
nhbibSometimes i can't understand the fsf(e). Yeah, they are right, that blobs are bad, but which phone wan't they use instead? I think neo900 will be one of the openest phones yo can get?!11:52
DocScrutinizer05nhbib: they want manufacturers to rather implement a dedicated small MCU that handles the FW BLOB rather than allowing linux CPU to "mv /usr/fw/blob /dev/peripherials/wlanconfig"11:53
DocScrutinizer05they honestly bullied for that "solution" for GTA0411:54
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DocScrutinizer05sure, we will place a small Atmel CPU and some serial EEPROM to hold the WLAN firmware, just to keep the blob out of /etc/firmware/*11:56
DocScrutinizer05that's so silly11:56
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: i have some experience with PICs, if you choose one over the Atmel :P11:56
DocScrutinizer05hah, thanks :-P11:57
DocScrutinizer05argumentation: "the blob could change the behaviour of the WLAN chip's API"  -- SO WHAT?!?!!11:58
DocScrutinizer05it's still the *user* to change the *blob*. And I doubt *any* user will thank us for depriving them of their option to actually do12:00
DocScrutinizer05sure we rather would like to see FOSS "blobs"12:00
DocScrutinizer05but banning them from linux APE just because they are _not_ FOSS is wrong in so many regards12:01
DocScrutinizer05particularly it would deprive hackers from any opportunity to RE that closed blob and come up with some FOSS replacement12:03
nhbibas far as i understand, banning the blob in a microcontroller would take the freedom away from the user, because than he can no longer decide if he want to remove the blob or change it/reverse engineer it12:04
DocScrutinizer05and treating "initialization data" for peripherals more restricitve than any userland closed source application is just paradox12:04
DocScrutinizer05nhbib: exactly12:05
dos1I can understand the reasoning, that they want to draw a line between hardware and software, so when blob is on such eeprom it belongs to hardware now and we can don't worry about it from software side12:06
dos1but the outcome of this reasoning is silly12:06
DocScrutinizer05but RSN assumes "it's some sort of program" (which is plausible but not guaranteed, it could as well just be a long set of register dumps that are restored to the registers to configure the chip) and he further says "any program on a GNU system has to ship FOSS sourcecode"12:07
DocScrutinizer05the second assertion is particulrly silly since user obviously is free to run closed source apps on his system12:09
DocScrutinizer05so why should closed source app be allowed only, when it is ran on APE CPU, but _not_ when you "offload it" to the coprocessor in a WLAN chip?12:10
DocScrutinizer05that's paradox12:11
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bennypr0fanehello, does anyone know whether or not we have an mpd client app for maemo?12:33
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Hakkibennypr0fane: mmpc, cutempc in extras-devel, mpc in testing12:43
bennypr0faneHakki it seems the two are conflicting12:44
bennypr0faneany idea why?12:44
Hakkinot really12:45
HakkiI'm using mmpc only12:45
bennypr0fanehow do you like the UI?12:46
bennypr0faneooh, the Cute one is tiny12:46
Hakkididn't like the cutempc :)12:47
HerbstbertTrying out mmpc now...12:47
bennypr0faneaha. apparently the two use different versions of libmpd12:49
Hakkimostly using command line mpc on a remote host with some shell scripting and splitvt around it :)12:49
bennypr0fanethe qt one is like 8 times the size12:49
bennypr0faneha mmpc looks much better12:51
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japa-fiFYI: Yesterday mentioned troubles with the media player, not properly showing id3v2 tags. I got some links to different maomo forum discussions over the matter. One of them gave me an idea and it seemed to work. Problem occured when I had updated tags in already properly indexed .mp3 files after which all went to crap. As solution I tried stripping all id3v2 tags after which created everything from scratch. Worked on my case.13:38
japa-fiNow, there you have it in the channel logs, hopefully it will be of assistance to someone in the future :)13:38
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Palihello, I remember that there was (or still is?) project for porting/running harmattan applications on Maemo13:49
Palidoes anybody have info about it?13:49
Herbstbertdos1: What about the battery of the Neo900? Will it be the same as in the N900? And how long will I be able to use a Neo900 with fully charged battery?13:53
HerbstbertOh, there is a #neo900. :D13:54
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mashina_the browser is pretty crashy on reddit for me - lots of checkerboarding and hangs14:02
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freemangordonPali: out of curiosity - which harm application you want to run?14:05
PaliTrojita (fast imap email client)14:05
PaliI'm fed up with Modest14:06
freemangordoncan't you just compile it?14:06
Paliusing qml14:06
freemangordonso what?14:06
PaliI need nokia qml libs14:06
Paliwhich are used only on harmattan14:06
Paliso I need them from above "compatibility layer"14:07
freemangordonok, got it14:07
dos1Herbstbert: yes, battery will be the same14:11
dos1how long - should be similar to N90014:11
HerbstbertOK. :)14:19
freemangordondos1: actually, if we manage to do everything as it should be done, the battery life should be longer14:20
freemangordon3430 is 60nm vs 40(?) nm for 373014:20
* freemangordon is going to check14:21
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HerbstbertCool. :)14:26
freemangordondos1: OMAP3430 is 65nm, DM3730 is 45nm14:28
freemangordonbut don;t expect much longer usage times, screen and digitizer use lots of juice14:28
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Pali~seen marmistrz14:35
infobotmarmistrz <53061e3b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 197d 20h 36m 40s ago, saying: 'please notify arcean about this when he shows up'.14:35
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NeutrinoPowerja voll cool, hab ich auch schon gelesen:
NeutrinoPowerauch mit einer Cortex A8 CPU19:47
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: otoh we clock the CPU higher. OK it will run faster to idle then. Yeah it might use a bit less than 65nm22:00
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dos1he couldn't handle that :(22:01
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sixwheeledbeastIs there a plan to package zzztop up for the repos?23:23
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DocScrutinizer05>>We would also like to mention that building and running a gigantic botnet and then watching it as it scans nothing less than the whole Internet at rates of billions of IPs per hour over and over again is really as much fun as it sounds like.<<23:26
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DocScrutinizer05good question, though honestly it's just as simple to install as:23:34
infoboti heard zzztop is - the better and even FOSS powertop, or "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop "", or
sixwheeledbeasta .deb?23:35
sixwheeledbeastI have tested it but a .deb in the repos would be nice :)23:36
DocScrutinizer05"copy and paste"23:36
DocScrutinizer05well, yeah23:36
DocScrutinizer05as nice as the .deb for starhash-enabler ;-)23:37
sixwheeledbeastit will actually make extras due to it working on all kernel versions.23:37
DocScrutinizer05prolly the only deb in maemo-extras that doesn't contain *any* executable23:38
DocScrutinizer05actually I could install the complete starhash-enabler even more easy than zzztop, it wouldn't even need any wget, just a simple echo command and that's it23:39
DocScrutinizer05thus yeah, I'm all aware that zzztop would need a package in extras23:40
DocScrutinizer05but I don't know of any devel who's planning to do such package23:40
sixwheeledbeastdoes zztop take much root? I didn't check if <0.3MB23:41
DocScrutinizer05way smaller23:41
DocScrutinizer05never heard of that limit23:43
sixwheeledbeastmaximum for promotion to extras23:43
sixwheeledbeast>0.3MB requires /opt23:44
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"23:44
DocScrutinizer05damn, even >>m, specially for applications requiring more than 5<<23:45
DocScrutinizer05oops >>m, specially for applications requiring more than 500k<<23:45
DocScrutinizer05sth severely broken in my browser's highlighting of texts23:46
DocScrutinizer05s/'s highlighting of texts//23:47
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: sth severely broken in my browser23:47
infobothmm... extras-testing is the maemo testing repository, or
sixwheeledbeastlistkeys testing23:49
sixwheeledbeast~listkeys testing23:50
infobotFactoid search of 'testing' by key (12 of 30): i don't mind some bot testing here, but ibot ;; testing1 ;; security security testing ;; security penetration testing ;; security functional testing ;; theory of testing ;; testing + unstable ;; testing-feed ;; cmd: testing (.*?) ;; testing->stable ;; testing->unstable ;; be testing barbie.23:50
sixwheeledbeast~listkeys #maemo testing23:50
infobotFactoid search of '#maemo testing' by key returned no results.23:50
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sixwheeledbeastOh well guidelines I have used for testing from here say 0.3MB
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* sixwheeledbeast is surprised wget takes 1.9MB on root
mashina_isn't busybox-power good enough?23:59
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