IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-10-23

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Tekk_will battery patch undo my previous overclock settings? and if so, will I be able to reset them and save my settings?00:08
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Tekk_I overclock to 900 without a problem, and the extra 100 mhz certainly helps with emulators00:08
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infobotsomebody said speedpatch was >>first i don't realy understand what does this patch do (that is why it is called miracle patch)<< [/quote original-author-of-speedpatch]00:33
sixwheeledbeastIMO this should be included in factoid
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sixwheeledbeastthumb and swap on uSD solves the memory bottleneck for day-to-day usage IMO. Desktop charger is useful if battery is very low or another N900/5800 etc00:39
sono5hmm thumb. got to try that soon00:40
infobotmethinks cssu is
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Malinuxwhere can I get N9 firmware? I need to reflash my N9 as I acidently made it uninstall a lot of packages :S02:09
* Macer points at the topic02:11
MacerN9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan02:11
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MalinuxMacer: okey02:11
MacerEither way. It has been a fun ride and I wish everybody the best. You all really extened the Maemo platform much farther than anybody has ever anticipated I'm sure.02:12
MacerMaybe some day there will be new hardware that will have a Maemo platform on it again. It truly was a magnificent distro for a phonelike device.02:14
Macerand with that I bid thee farewell ;)02:14
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SAiFexactly what all things do the proximity sensor do on n900 other than screen lock/off function while calling?06:24
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DocScrutinizer05good question06:36
DocScrutinizer05but not a precise question, since it's not the sensor doing things, it's things using the sensor. Thus it's not that easy to tell which things are using the sensor since you can't tell from "looking at the sensor"06:37
DocScrutinizer05quite a number of apps use the proximity sensor for various purposes, starting at usecase where it's just an additional HID to trigger app-specific actions, by covering it with your finger, to stuff like detecting if device is in a pouch or bag or pocket06:39
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if in some apps e.g. speakers are muted when proxy detects possibly your ear next to the speaker06:40
SAiFnot in apps by dedault?06:43
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DocScrutinizer05by default? what do you mean by default?06:50
SAiFmeans without any extra apps06:51
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DocScrutinizer05the dialer app is known to use the proximity sensor06:51
DocScrutinizer05the sensor itself is just that: a sensor. It can't DO anything06:51
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SAiFso only the dialer app uses proximity?06:51
DocScrutinizer05see my initial comment above06:52
SAiFas in witthout installing any extra app..06:52
SAiFso the thing is i want to disable it, I dont want the screen to be off while calling.06:53
SAiFis there any method to accomplish it06:53
DocScrutinizer05nobody has done such investigation yet - it's also vastly useless since no device out there has no additional apps installed06:54
DocScrutinizer05no, this can't work, since when the screen doesn't get locked, your ear will engage some buttons on the dialer GUI06:55
SAiFyeah I know, but still..06:55
DocScrutinizer05I also don't see the rationale behind such behavior modification of dialer06:55
SAiFokay.. my sensor is not sensitive.06:56
DocScrutinizer05thus I won't waste processor time of my wetware to come up with a possible solution06:56
DocScrutinizer05specify a valid usecase and maybe we can suggest a better solution06:57
SAiFand it sees as if it is covered by something in low light conditions06:57
DocScrutinizer05umm, you say your sensor is defect?06:58
SAiFyes, its not working as it should06:58
DocScrutinizer05check: ``  watch --interval=1 cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ´´07:01
DocScrutinizer05it should say "open" until you cover it with your finger where it immediately and without glitches shall change to "closed"07:02
DocScrutinizer05also check your general system status, with htop07:04
SAiFwell, that command07:05
DocScrutinizer05proximity sensor (like other events) known to be late or get lost completely when CPU load is way too high07:05
SAiFits always closed.07:06
DocScrutinizer05that's bad07:06
DocScrutinizer05do you have a screen protector?07:06
DocScrutinizer05does it cover the prox sensor?07:06
SAiFalready removed07:06
DocScrutinizer05there might be dust or other debris in the prox sensor aperture07:07
DocScrutinizer05or the hardware component (the chip) is defect07:07
DocScrutinizer05so your problem is: you never see screen during calls?07:08
SAiFi have to slide open to see whose calling07:08
DocScrutinizer05I see07:08
DocScrutinizer05obvious solution: fix prox07:09
DocScrutinizer05spare flex PCB are available for <10 bucks07:09
DocScrutinizer05for a stopgap you could try to deactivate the prox sensor all together07:10
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DocScrutinizer05you need to mess with gpio sysnodes to do that07:10
DocScrutinizer05or maybe a bindmount of a static real file over the /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state node could work as well07:11
SAiFanything that i can do?07:12
DocScrutinizer05sth along the line `` echo open >/prox; mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ´´07:12
DocScrutinizer05yeah, seems to work, just tested it07:14
DocScrutinizer05do this, and then you can control the prox "sensor" state with `` echo open >/prox ´´ and `` echo closed >/prox ´´07:16
SAiFdo i have to be root?07:17
DocScrutinizer05prox sensor is owned by root, as is sysfs which you try to mess with (mount)07:17
DocScrutinizer05and even / is writable by root only, for the /prox file07:18
SAiFwill you see any result in that command.07:18
DocScrutinizer05you can change this to your liking07:18
DocScrutinizer05not if it succeeds07:19
DocScrutinizer05you however see the difference whe you do `` cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state ´´07:19
SAiFwell its now open07:20
DocScrutinizer05it now shall print exactly what you piped to /prox before, no matter if that's "open" or 2closed" or "foobar"07:20
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SAiFwell, screen doenot go black when calling now.07:22
DocScrutinizer05since dialer is doing exactly same, you now should see dialer act like when sensor is "open"07:22
DocScrutinizer05(maybe you need to killall dialer, to make it drop any open filehandle that still would read from the original /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state)07:22
DocScrutinizer05hmm, nope, prolly not07:23
SAiFits working just like I wanted.07:23
SAiFwill it revert back if rebooted?07:24
DocScrutinizer05you need to repeat the mount -o bind during boot07:24
DocScrutinizer05GOD I*love* this device!!07:25
SAiFwhere from you know all these things.07:25
SAiFyou born like this?07:25
DocScrutinizer05decades of linux07:25
DocScrutinizer05basically yes ;-)07:25
SAiFthanks a lot doc, now I have to hard copy that commands,.. :)07:26
DocScrutinizer05wait a minute, i'll help you some more07:26
DocScrutinizer05sed -i 's/exit 0/mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0' /etc/init.d/rcS07:29
DocScrutinizer05warning, no waranties included, it's untested07:29
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DocScrutinizer05damn sorry, bad "typo"07:30
DocScrutinizer05warning, no waranties included, it's untestederr nope07:30
DocScrutinizer05no tiypo07:31
SAiFwhat is that?07:31
DocScrutinizer05do a `` tail /etc/init.d/rcS ´´ after that, and check if the last two lines look like07:31
DocScrutinizer05mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state07:32
DocScrutinizer05exit 007:32
DocScrutinizer05it's a command to edit the rcS sysinit file07:32
DocScrutinizer05do automatically do this mount command during boot07:32
SAiFshoul i start from sed -i?07:32
DocScrutinizer05sed -i 's/exit 0/mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0' /etc/init.d/rcS07:33
DocScrutinizer05as root07:33
DocScrutinizer05tail /etc/init.d/rcS07:33
DocScrutinizer05and check last 2 lines07:33
DocScrutinizer05sorry huge typo :-D07:34
DocScrutinizer05sed -i 's@exit 0@mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0@' /etc/init.d/rcS07:35
DocScrutinizer05c&p this line to a root terminal on N90007:36
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DocScrutinizer05should do the trick. I hope you won't encounter a bootloop for completely obscure reasons07:38
DocScrutinizer05messing with rcS file is a tad "dangerous"07:38
SAiFbad option i substitution expression07:38
DocScrutinizer05prolly busybox again07:39
SAiFsed: bad option in substition expression07:40
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DocScrutinizer05you didn't copy the `` sed -i 's@exit 0@mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0@' /etc/init.d/rcS ´´ cmdline07:42
DocScrutinizer05the first one I posted been incorrect and spits that error07:42
DocScrutinizer05sed -i 's@exit 0@mount -o bind /prox /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state\nexit 0@' /etc/init.d/rcS07:42
DocScrutinizer05I just tested it, it works07:43
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DocScrutinizer05don't run the command more than once! it won't print any "ok" when it succeeds07:44
DocScrutinizer05I did a `` cd /etc/init.d ´´ before07:47
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DocScrutinizer05when using `` tail /etc/init.d/rcS ´´ then you don't need to worry about the cd07:47
DocScrutinizer05I nevertheless suggest you fix your hardware07:49
DocScrutinizer05probably the proximity sensor chip is dead. Not unheard of07:49
SAiF0it succeeded atlast07:50
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DocScrutinizer05get that ans swap07:51
DocScrutinizer05you see the right one, you can tell from most offers using same picture07:52
DocScrutinizer05cheapest offer <5 bucks07:52
SAiF0I will be using like this for a couple of days. and then I will buy one.07:52
SAiF0it includes camera?07:52
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DocScrutinizer05front cam07:53
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DocScrutinizer05a real bargain for 4.98USD07:54
SAiF0that one has a fake camera07:54
SAiF0losing front cam for proximtiy... :)07:55
SAiF0\which one would you choose if you are given such a choice07:55
DocScrutinizer05how do you know it's fake?07:55
* DocScrutinizer05 glares at his 2 flex cable spares he got for 7bucks each07:56
DocScrutinizer05I got me 3 of those:
DocScrutinizer05not tested yet, but look fine07:57
DocScrutinizer05took like 6 weeks for shipping07:58
DocScrutinizer05and came with their antistatic bags packed separately ;-P07:58
DocScrutinizer05with the flex in antistatic bag they couldn't fold the bags to fit into the package - idiots07:59
DocScrutinizer05so they opened the bags, removed the cables, and placed the 3 folded bags into the polystyrene box, then bubble foil, then the 3 cables08:00
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* DocScrutinizer05 hopes SaiF hasn't completely messed up his rcS with lots of 'mount -o bind foobar' lines that could even throw error and possibly make boot go looping08:33
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bindiDocScrutinizer05: scraping knock detection, just gonna do the button thingie09:10
bindiDocScrutinizer05: I can react to the headset button being pressed with python right?09:10
DocScrutinizer05yep, should be possible09:10
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bindiDocScrutinizer05: 600 mW power er.... handling should be sufficient?09:20
bindifor the resistor in parallel with the button09:20
DocScrutinizer05U=2V max09:21
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bindiyeah okay09:21
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DocScrutinizer05you got the circuit right now? switch in parallel to ~1k resistor from 3rd contact of plug to 4th contact (aka sleeve, ground)09:25
bindinah, gonna do shopping later today09:26
DocScrutinizer05ok, same applies09:26
bindiyou said 2k resistor earlier09:26
DocScrutinizer05I honestly don't know how large the resistor should be09:26
DocScrutinizer05since usually that's a mic09:26
DocScrutinizer05wait, I'll try to probe it09:26
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DocScrutinizer051..2K is ok09:32
DocScrutinizer051.4 actually09:32
DocScrutinizer051k should do as well09:33
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DocScrutinizer05I'll try to calculate the correct value based on circuitry in N90009:35
bindiI can probably take a picture (without engaging the flash) and e-mail it as an attachment too?09:37
DocScrutinizer05picture of whatß09:40
bindiuh, with the camera09:41
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bindithe person ringing the doorbell :D09:42
DocScrutinizer05btw one of the two schmidt-triggers is built around a 4.7k series resistor to mic, from 2.5V, and the trigger level is09:42
DocScrutinizer05~2.5 / (22 + 6.8) * 2209:42
DocScrutinizer05sure you can take a picture09:43
DocScrutinizer05or - rather simple, the resistor value for triggering that threshold is:09:44
DocScrutinizer05~22 / 6.8 * 4.709:44
DocScrutinizer05that's prolly to detect AV-in connected09:45
DocScrutinizer05then there's a second schmidt-trigger that is09:46
DocScrutinizer05with a 220R series resistor for mic09:47
DocScrutinizer05form an unknown but probably 2V micbias voltage09:47
DocScrutinizer05(unknown since I'm too lazy to read the tlv320aic34 datasheet)09:48
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DocScrutinizer05the voltage level for that trigger is09:48
DocScrutinizer05~2.5 / (22 + 6.8) * 6.809:48
DocScrutinizer05given the 220R series this will be ~50R max, and that's probably the max ESR when switch closed09:50
DocScrutinizer05ooops, sorry, there's another 2k series in that one09:50
DocScrutinizer05so this is basically same as above, just inverted09:52
DocScrutinizer05~2.5 / (22 + 6.8) * 6.809:52
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DocScrutinizer05err yeah, and09:53
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DocScrutinizer05~500R series09:55
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bindiuh huh09:58
* bindi is confused09:58
bindiam I still good to go with the 1k ohm resistor or? :D09:58
DocScrutinizer05prolly yes10:00
DocScrutinizer05  says >LC-0070<:10:00
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DocScrutinizer05The electrical characteristics of the audio Terminal of the10:01
DocScrutinizer05Terminal SHALL operate within the values stated below:10:01
DocScrutinizer05Bias Current10:01
DocScrutinizer05 Min 100 μA Max 500 μA10:01
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DocScrutinizer05(Voltage of 2.1V generated over microphone component with10:01
DocScrutinizer05serial pull up resistor value between 1.90 kΩ and 2.2 kΩ)10:01
DocScrutinizer05this is pretty weird spec10:02
DocScrutinizer05anyway it gives some hint on ESR of microphone10:03
DocScrutinizer05minimum R10:04
DocScrutinizer05max R10:04
DocScrutinizer05according to the OMTP specs for headsets10:04
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DocScrutinizer05I suggest you simply test it10:05
sonowhat are you guys fiddling with?10:06
bindiadd 1k, 1.4k, 2k, 4k resistors to my shopping list?10:06
bindisono: custom button triggering an action on the n900 via headset socket10:06
DocScrutinizer05use CA-75U cable. See what resistor it needs on yellow plug to make the device display headset connected indicator10:07
DocScrutinizer05seems you would be fine with a 5k10:08
bindihm, that one comes with the n900? i have one somewhere10:08
DocScrutinizer05but I doubt that applies in real life10:08
DocScrutinizer05I'd bet a few bucks on 2k just working fine10:08
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, I just probed a 1400R on a nokia headset, with a good low-voltage digital multimeter10:12
DocScrutinizer05thus a voltage of significantly < 2V10:13
DocScrutinizer05due to the non-linear characteristics of semiconductors this effective series resistance coukd only get lower on higher voltage, i'd guess10:14
DocScrutinizer05in the end it's probably completely irrelevant if your resistor is 500R or 18kR10:15
DocScrutinizer05which makes sense since in real life the properties of arbitrary headset mics may vary significantly10:16
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DocScrutinizer05so as long as 0<< R <<infinite it's a headset10:16
DocScrutinizer05a closed switch plus cable and plug parasitic series resistance should still be <<100R, and a CA-75U connected to a CVBS-in is either >10k or ==50R10:18
DocScrutinizer05I'll check this in a minute10:19
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DocScrutinizer05dang! 75R, I could have known10:21
DocScrutinizer05this stuff is really puzzling and weird. The general situation as well as the N900 circuitry around it10:22
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DocScrutinizer05so your resistance between the two contacts when ring button pushed should be <<75R, and the resistance when button not pressen should be some kR10:23
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bindiso that button with resistor in parallel isnt going to work or?10:24
DocScrutinizer05it will work, definitely10:25
DocScrutinizer05use a normal switch, a 2kR and when this isn't the right components then I owe you a beer10:25
bindiwe'll see later today then :P10:26
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bindihow feasible would it be to record a video with 30s buffer and save 5 last seconds of the clip and e-mail it when the button is pressed?10:31
bindiin case person ringing gets to a blind spot or blocks the camera10:32
DocScrutinizer05btw on GPIO_182 aka McSPI2_CS1 aka pin OMAP3430:V3 you got the raw voltage from mic_in, labeled "ECI_AD" which suggests this might be either a serial-in for one-wire ECI (multibutton headsets) or even a A/D converter when you mux the V3 pin to another internal function block10:32
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bindialways record a video with max. 30s of footage that is10:32
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DocScrutinizer05should be feasible10:33
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ApicA wonderful fine Sweetmorn (UGT)!11:41
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sonoDocScrutinizer05: do we have complete schematics for the n900?12:18
sonoi still have had too little time to really read up, excuse the easily googled questions12:18
infobotit has been said that schematics is
DocScrutinizer05that pahe seems kinda garbled and outdated12:20
DocScrutinizer05you find them via google easily though12:20
sonofascinating.. schematics for my phone o.o12:21
sonoi don't think i ever had that before12:21
sonoyea. thanks.12:22
l4m3rxTo login in (wiki.) i need account in, right?12:22
* sono stares at mixed tabs and spaces in a .c file12:22
DocScrutinizer05err, it's "SSO", yeah12:22
DocScrutinizer05using tabs is pretty much deprecated in sourcecode12:23
DocScrutinizer05smart editors can convert tab into spaces, and vice versa12:24
sonoare you talking to me?12:24
DocScrutinizer05and you should set the editor so it inserts 4 spces for each tab you type12:24
sonoi was just expressing my hatered12:24
sonono need to lecture me on fucking tabs12:24
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sure12:24
sonoin fact,12:25
* sono fires up astyle and prepares the mass commit cannon12:25
sonofuck that noise =)12:25
jaskatabs are bad.. mixed is .. blyyarghg12:28
DocScrutinizer05tab space tab space space tab  ;-P12:29
jaskayeah, i cry blood and run an indenter when i see that12:29
sonoUnchanged  /home/benjamin/src/XLU-Freescale/src/task.c12:29
sonobenjamin@ubuntu-dev:~/src/XLU-Freescale/src$ file task.c12:30
sonotask.c: empty12:30
* sono opens the window12:30
* sono jumps12:30
sonoDAT CODE12:30
DocScrutinizer05great task ! XP12:30
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DocScrutinizer05>>file task<<   >task is empty<<12:31
DocScrutinizer05that's epic12:31
sonothere is some epic shit in our repos12:31
sonovoid dosendparameter( std::ostream & ostr, int Parameter, char laenge, char schalter )12:32
sonostatic char text[20];12:32
sonoif ( schalter == true )12:32
sonoostr.put( 0x1B ); //ESC = 0x1B12:32
sonoostr.put( 'Z' );12:32
sonoostr.put( 'O' );12:32
sonoostr.put( 'K' );12:32
sonoitoa( Parameter, text, 10 );//Wandeln in ASCII12:32
sonostrrev( text );//Wenden12:32
sonoif ( Parameter < 0 )12:32
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sonofor ( int x = strlen( text ) - 1;x < laenge - 1;x++ )text[x] = '0';  //Führende Nullen setzen12:32
sonoif ( laenge > 1 )text[laenge-1] = '-';12:32
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sonosorry, no idea what i was thinking12:37
sonoi suppose i just had to share the pain12:38
DocScrutinizer05np, just don't do it again please12:38
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sononot like i don't know better12:38
sono(you have to admit that is probably among the most terrible code you ever saw, tho)12:38
DocScrutinizer05yes, indeed12:39
sono(that code *is* alive)12:39
sonojust not my project (phew)12:39
DocScrutinizer05makes me want to have breakfast, so I can throw up a bit12:39
jaska... function names, variables in non-english?12:39
sonojaska: not just that. they're also completely nondescriptive even if you do speak the language12:39
sono"schalter" is just "toggle"12:39
sonoor switch, if you wish.12:40
DocScrutinizer05that whole code is a single abomination12:40
sonothere's hardly a line in that function that is not.12:40
DocScrutinizer05strrev( text );   LOLWUT?!!12:40
sonoahha yes.12:40
DocScrutinizer05and the missing spaces after ) of a condition12:43
DocScrutinizer05great style12:43
jaskabut spaces everywhere else almost12:45
jaskaalbeit inconsistently12:45
sonothe algorithm is the best part12:45
sonoif you want to call it that12:45
sonoi'm just glad i don't have to deal with that project =) the guy who does, tho... well he kinda deserves it i guess12:46
sonohe must12:46
DocScrutinizer05devel must've been on crack12:46
sonootherwise it would be cruel, and unusual12:46
sonohe's long left the company. i am told there were two guys12:46
sonoboth fresh out of a special vocational school (not uni!) where they learned to code from 50 year old teachers that learned to code from a textbook12:47
sonothey had no mentoring, nothing12:47
sonoin a way, it is surprising that the project does anything at all12:47
jaskathat doesnt mean anything, nobody ever mentored me, i never even finished highschool.12:47
sonowell yes12:47
sonosame here12:47
sonostill, ...12:47
sonoyou did not learn how to program in a vocational school12:48
jaskai did write some ugly code early on.12:48
sonothey did.12:48
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DocScrutinizer05you either learn coding by studying and understanding good code, or you never learn it12:51
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DocScrutinizer05highly recommended read: (semi-OT)13:16
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l4m3rxintresting that they didn't FinFisher13:38
l4m3rxs/didn't/didn't turn to/13:38
infobotl4m3rx meant: intresting that they didn't turn to FinFisher13:38
Palibrolin_empey: now looking at kernel-power13:39
Palibrolin_empey: I have 4 patches: dm9601, asix, nokia-av and power_supply_sysfs13:40
Palidm9601 and asix only adding new usb ids... this will not break/change anything existing (only adding support for new hw)13:41
Paliso somebody with that hw will need to check if work13:41
Palifor me that two patches are ok13:41
Palinext power_supply_sysfs patch which fixing dangling if statement13:42
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Paliand patch for nokia-av adding new (better) support for headset button. it reports headset button event immediately, but sometimes not correctly - so it report event as KEY_PROG1 (to not break any app which does not listen for that key)13:43
Palionly this last patch needs more testing, all others are ok13:44
Palibrolin_empey: I do not remember which patch is from you, so look at list ^^^ if there is that yours13:44
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PaliI will add info about testing new kernel packages to TMO kp52 thread13:45
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brolin_empeyPali: Thank you.  The dm9601 and asix patches are mine;  I made and submitted them because I need them in order to use some models of USB ↔ Ethernet adapters I have without having to use a hexadecimal editor with the binary .ko files to manually replace the numeric identifiers of a model of adapter I do not have with the numeric identifiers of a model of adapter I do have.13:59
Palirigth, so you will test if that working with your HW14:00
brolin_empeyPali: Yes, I will test and report after installing the kp52.14:03
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Palibrolin_empey: now updating my phone to new version from git14:06
Paliafter some tests (in next minutes) I will publish deb packages for testing14:07
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Palinew kp for testing is here:
Palibrolin_empey ^^^^14:22
Palifreemangordon ^^^^14:22
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jon_yPali: how much slack space does your uboot still have for the kernel?14:29
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Palijon_y: max kernel size is 183296014:31
Paliand max uboot size is 26214414:31
Pali(if you mean combined uboot+kernel image in n900 nand)14:32
jon_yalso, I notice sometimes kp starts with console14:32
jon_yother times without14:32
jon_ynot sure if I messed with the kernel by adding the console14:33
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DocScrutinizer05o.O what a gibberish!!    a:3:{i:0;s:11:"programming";i:1;s:17:"test_et_bugreport";i:2;s:9:"ui_design";}14:56
DocScrutinizer05lools almost like dbus parameters14:57
DocScrutinizer05looks, even14:57
DocScrutinizer05however it's most probably PHP, or some weird stuff midgard invented14:57
sonoo.o looks like an unholy union between awk and c64 basic14:58
DocScrutinizer05that's my "interests" as in , as seen in administrative interface14:59
dos1it looks like something php devs could come up with, yes, but i know a bit of php and never seen there any format like that14:59
jaskalooks sorta like bittorrent dht protocol.. distantly15:00
jaskalike, strings are s:length:"foobar"15:00
sonoit could not be some sort of json?15:02
sonoactually, yes.15:02
dos1that's for sure not a valid json15:02
sonoi haven't done web stuff lately, but15:02
sonowell, not valid..15:02
sonowell, i have no idea..15:02
dos1and the only thing it shares with json are there three characters {}:15:03
dos1some custom internal format i guess15:04
DocScrutinizer05so let's face it: it's MIDGARD ;-P15:04
DocScrutinizer05hi dos1 :-)15:05
DocScrutinizer05back to proper PC?15:06
DocScrutinizer05I think THE page needs some improvements that cpuld predate THE announcement ;-)15:07
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DocScrutinizer05and to answer your question (7weeks?), see last post in15:08
inzDocScrutinizer05, it is php15:08
DocScrutinizer05ooh, it IS?15:08
inzDocScrutinizer05, same format as php uses for storing session ata15:08
DocScrutinizer05thabks for the pointer, luckily I don't need to learn about it, just ran into it on midgard, while checking progress of karma updating15:09
sonowhat, that is a serialization format?15:10
sonobloody hell15:10
dos1sono: that is php serialization format - adding "php" before it changes everything :D15:10
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sonoi suppose so15:10
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: some list of short bullet points about what could be added/changed on the website would be helpful15:11
sonolooks like they were trying to make something like json, misnamed it serialization, and then went ahead and just built something15:11
dos1sono: php learned how to deal with json in its standard library quite recently15:12
DocScrutinizer05dos1: I think we can set up a sneaky wiki page, in some dark corner15:12
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DocScrutinizer05for now main concern is clear emphasis on distinction between the hw device and any OS that will not ship with it15:13
dos1DocScrutinizer05: btw. I've just recieved second gta02, so my concerns about distinction between daily and devel devices regarding gta02/gta04 aren't valid anymore :)15:15
dos1hmm, will adding "Shipped OS" row in comparition table be enough for now?15:15
jaskathey were apeing bencode format i guess15:15
DocScrutinizer05I think we should mention that GolDeliCo is NOT developing the OS for the device. And while we gonna ship the device with errr one of the OS that Nikolaus mentioned, it's basically up to the user to find and install the OS of his choice. Then point to FPTF15:17
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: F5!15:36
DocScrutinizer05dos1: (then point to FPTF) It's very important that customers understand that the device doesn't ship with fremantle, but that there OTOH is a community project that already takes care about porting fremantle15:39
DocScrutinizer05and fremantle been ported before to other devices15:40
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Tekk_there any way to select twxt in the browser for copying? changing your keymap has the fun circular dependency16:26
Tekk_where to have the characters to edit your keymap you must first edit your keymap to have such characters :P16:27
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wndTekk_, I'm not sure if you're after this, buy if you swipe the stylus from left of the screen to right (that is, start from outside the screen, swipe to right), you should be presented a button. clicking that should allow you to select text, after which you can use the menu or keyboard shortcut to copy it to clipboard.16:51
Tekk_thanks, I'll look at that16:52
DocScrutinizer05hmm, no16:54
l4m3rxbtw DocScrutinizer05, maybe a stupid Q , but what do the both 'browserd' processes do? (I mean there's few of them.... 2 with few forks)16:57
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l4m3rxscratch that ....16:59
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DocScrutinizer05browserd does a lot of jobs: conversations, iirc call history, whatnot else17:53
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DocScrutinizer05even ovi-map afaik17:54
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l4m3rxokay .. another Q.... witch is more linux kernel behavior relayed ... does chnice effect the swap IO?17:58
l4m3rxof a process17:58
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DocScrutinizer05my manpages don't know chnice18:09
brolin_empeyPali: How do I install kp52 with the files from ?18:09
Paliinstall deb packages18:09
brolin_empeyPali: All 4 packages?18:11
Palidepends on what you need18:11
DocScrutinizer05l4m3rx: man ionice18:12
brolin_empeyPali: Can I install only the kernel-power-modules package?18:13
Paliif you want to flash kernel into nand you need kernel-power kernel-power-modules and kernel-power-flasher18:14
Paliif you want to boot it from uboot you need also kernel-power-bootimg18:14
DocScrutinizer05l4m3rx: though kernel isn't controlled by nice or ionice18:14
Palikernel version is kp52+git18:14
DocScrutinizer05kswapd seems to run at "top prio"18:15
Paliand kernel zimage and modules version must match18:15
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DocScrutinizer05you probably don't want to install kp to kernel partition, just to replace it with uBoot some minutes later18:17
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DocScrutinizer05so aiui for uboot, kernel-power-bootimg and kernel-power-modules should suffice18:18
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DocScrutinizer05pending confirmation by pali18:19
Palino, kernel-power-flasher is needed too for dependences18:19
Paliuboot and kernel-power-flasher depends on fiasco-image-update-ask18:19
DocScrutinizer05maybe some unfortunate dependencies in installation procedure make kernel-power and *-flasher mandatory even with uBoot18:20
Paliand that package cause that you will be asked if you want to flash something into nand18:20
* DocScrutinizer05 been too slow18:20
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l4m3rxl4m3rx my bad, i ment ionice , witch is like chnice but not for IO18:21
l4m3rxAnd the Q here is if you change the IO prio of a process , will that affect the swapping IO of him (the process)18:22
DocScrutinizer05chnice: unknown18:22
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DocScrutinizer05and answer as of above: afaik kswapd doesn't care about any ionice or other prio of the process "owning" the pages to swap18:23
l4m3rxso - no :/18:23
DocScrutinizer05kswapd is a kernel process and runs with kernel prio and scheduling18:24
DocScrutinizer05that's why system comes to a grinding halt when swap hell hits18:24
DocScrutinizer05all disclaimer: AFAIK18:26
DocScrutinizer05no expert here18:26
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK might know details18:26
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DocScrutinizer05but when a process has lower prio then it stays in sleep longer before it gets scheduled (gets a time slot). But once it got a timeslot is has same prio as any other process that tries to run, and kernel tries to provide the resources to allow it running, incl any swapped out pages18:28
DocScrutinizer05actually I seem to recall that all processes ahve a real live prio and a niceness. The real live prio increases the longer the process stays in sleep18:30
DocScrutinizer05once the real prio of a process is high enough, it will get next timeslice, and it doesn't make sense to preempt it just because some pages need to get swapped to make it run18:31
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DocScrutinizer05maybe other lower prio processes can run while the process waits for pages swapping in, but once that io-wait finished, the process again is highest prio and again claims cpu18:32
DocScrutinizer05and kswapd will not swap out or abot swap in of pages that just been requested for swap in18:33
DocScrutinizer05that would lead to a total deadlock of whole system18:33
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SAiFafter a couple of reboots, I noticed that something weird is going on, cpumem applet shows high cpu and memory usage,18:44
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SAiFand now it wont allow me to open anything, says "too many applications open, unable to open additional apps without closing some."18:45
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DocScrutinizer05what the heck?18:47
DocScrutinizer05you should immediately restore original state of /etc/init.d/rcS18:48
SAiFi dont know whats wrong.. sometimes I am not able to even open up xterminal18:49
SAiFpls tell me how to restore.. original state.18:49
DocScrutinizer05you got mc installed?18:49
DocScrutinizer05or what#s your fav editor on xterm?18:50
SAiFcurrently nothing..18:50
DocScrutinizer05well, then type following line into xterm18:50
SAiFwait, icant open xterm now. its showing the same error as above18:51
DocScrutinizer05sed -i 's@.*/prox.*@@' /etc/init.d/rcS18:51
SAiFwell the phone menu works, thats all.18:52
DocScrutinizer05reboot and immediately open xterm18:52
SAiFpls wait18:52
DocScrutinizer05you also might try to umount /prox18:52
DocScrutinizer05both needs to get done as root18:53
DocScrutinizer05maybe this hack I suggested has unexpected side effects18:54
SAiFokay.. in xterm now18:54
DocScrutinizer05sudo gainroot18:54
DocScrutinizer05umount /prox18:54
DocScrutinizer05sed -i 's@.*/prox.*@@' /etc/init.d/rcS18:55
DocScrutinizer05after those three lines your system should stop acting up18:56
DocScrutinizer05check system status with command18:56
SAiFcannot umount , device or resource busy18:57
DocScrutinizer05watch for a lot of similar processes, tell me what they look like18:57
DocScrutinizer05continue with sed command18:57
DocScrutinizer05then check output of18:58
DocScrutinizer05tail -n 4 /etc/init.d/rcS18:58
DocScrutinizer05it shouldn't have any " mount " lines anymore18:59
DocScrutinizer05if that's ok, reboot again18:59
DocScrutinizer05but before you reboot, please check output of top command19:00
SAiFno mount lines.. just exit 019:00
DocScrutinizer05(to stop top, you press "q")19:00
DocScrutinizer05you probably see a lot of similar looking processes in top19:01
SAiF1, cpu 72.4 --force syslog19:01
SAiF2, cpu 23.8 hald-addon gpio19:01
DocScrutinizer05looks weird19:01
SAiFthese two are the top cpu usage ones19:02
DocScrutinizer05there must be a command name before "--force syslog"19:02
SAiFyes /sbin/mce --force-syslog19:03
DocScrutinizer05and I'm interested in a lot of similar looking processes19:03
DocScrutinizer05yeah, mce blowing chunks19:03
SAiFthere is no other /sbin/mce others are /usr/bin with less than 10% cpu usage19:04
DocScrutinizer05for unknown reasons hald-addon-gpio doesn't like the bindmount on prox sensor19:04
SAiFexept top and hald-addon-gpio19:04
DocScrutinizer05cpu usage is irrelevant, you said the error message been "too many apps started" or sth like that19:04
SAiFyes.. and some times. it said some thing like (cannot continue due to low memory)19:05
DocScrutinizer05which means there seems to be too many concurrent processes, which are like 999 or sth, on maemo19:05
DocScrutinizer05low memory is another issue, but that is also not related directly to cpu usage19:06
DocScrutinizer05you can sort by memory usage in top19:06
DocScrutinizer05press "F"19:06
DocScrutinizer05press "n"19:06
DocScrutinizer05press enter19:07
DocScrutinizer05what does top say under "Tasks: 152 total," what's is your number?19:08
DocScrutinizer05(top second row)19:08
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SAiFits sortecant find19:09
SAiFcant find19:09
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SAiFthere is no where saying tasks : xx total19:10
SAiFwait press f, n enter ???19:10
DocScrutinizer05top, the 2nd row from top19:10
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l4m3rx2nd row is load avreage: 1.00 1.00 1.00 2/210 2510 ? (or smthng like that?)19:11
DocScrutinizer05F, not f19:11
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SAiFwell, there is only mem and cpu above the list..19:13
SAiFwhat am i doing wrong19:13
SAiFsorting doesnt really work19:13
DocScrutinizer05too large font?19:13
DocScrutinizer05use volume rocker to get smaller font19:14
SAiFnope, not the font. its not there19:15
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I can't help much19:15
DocScrutinizer05and btw with f, n, enter you probably disabled display of MEM% col19:16
DocScrutinizer05doing same again will re-enable it19:17
SAiFno, memory % colum is still there..19:17
SAiFit sorts by cpu%19:17
DocScrutinizer05you can change this to %MEM by pressing F,n, enter19:18
SAiFit was never sorted by mem usage,19:19
DocScrutinizer05pressing F should show a list of fields, with chars to select ome of them19:20
SAiFF n enter sorts cpu usage in descenting order19:20
DocScrutinizer05have you looked at the screen after pressing F ?19:20
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SAiFnope nope nothing like that...19:21
DocScrutinizer05no idea what's going on with your shell or top19:23
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DocScrutinizer05does it even update at all?19:23
DocScrutinizer05I.E. does the values change?19:24
SAiFyes when i press F screen just refreshes19:24
DocScrutinizer05press Q, reboot19:25
DocScrutinizer05I'm out of ideas19:25
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SAiFstill top doesnt respond to F19:27
SAiFcpu 7.2% mem 60kk free19:28
DocScrutinizer05OHDAMN! busybox top19:28
DocScrutinizer05~lart busybox19:28
* infobot hits busybox with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha19:28
SAiFwait.. it just raised.. and now falled down19:28
SAiFraised again.. trackerd..?19:29
DocScrutinizer05whatever, irrelevant range19:29
SAiFno sbin/mce in top 50 haha19:30
DocScrutinizer05might be tracker indeed19:30
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I gave a poor advice. It obviously isn't helpful19:30
DocScrutinizer05seems hald-addon-gpio blows chunks with that bindmount on proximity/state19:31
SAiFwell i found sbin/mce  in somewhere 5th or 6th position from top19:32
SAiFbut total cpu% is 7%19:32
DocScrutinizer05don't worry, everything back to normal19:32
DocScrutinizer05incl dialer misbehaviour19:32
SAiFsbin/mce gone now19:32
DocScrutinizer05to properly clean up you may delete that file19:33
DocScrutinizer05rm /prox19:33
SAiFsorry but where was prox located? I am dumb19:34
SAiFsorry to ask19:35
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SAiFdumb again19:35
DocScrutinizer05rm /prox19:35
SAiF^^ got it19:35
SAiFso i suppose if i use it without the automatic configure at startup, it would be fine..? right?19:36
SAiFthanks a lot doc.. you saved a reflash.19:37
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DocScrutinizer05I'm really wondering what happens when you do the `` mount -o bind ´´ late after boot19:41
DocScrutinizer05either it acts upp exactly like it did now, or it will magically work since maemo-dialer and hald-addon-gpio are weird and inconsistent design19:42
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: I almost *caused* a reflash19:42
SAiFyou saved a couple earlier..19:42
SAiFso i still owe you a couple of reflashes . :-)19:43
DocScrutinizer05you're free to experiment further with the original interactive cmdline I gave you. It will revert to normal anyway, as soon as you reboot device19:44
DocScrutinizer05echo open >/prox; mount -o bind /prox /sys/...blablabla19:45
sonodunno what top you got (htop?) but top has not #tasks19:45
SAiF^^ doc19:47
DocScrutinizer05my top is the REAL top, not any messybox crap19:47
sonogtop then19:47
sonoon normal maemo19:47
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sonoif installed19:47
DocScrutinizer05well, if you wanna call it that way, it will obey ;-)19:48
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:/etc/init.d# ls -l `which top`19:49
DocScrutinizer05-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 80976 2009-11-16 16:02 /usr/bin/top19:49
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:/etc/init.d# top --version19:49
DocScrutinizer05        top: procps version 3.2.719:49
sonoso i gather you have coreutils without the silly prefix19:49
DocScrutinizer05procps, which nukes my mp-community-pr19:50
sono... so much work so little time19:50
DocScrutinizer05I recommend htop19:50
sonoat least you guys all went the way before19:50
* sono is on the bus enjoying his phone =)19:51
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SAiFbye good night (UGT), time to go home.20:01
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; kswapd swaps out, apps mostly swap in themselves20:18
DocScrutinizer05how's an app going to swap in autonomously?20:19
DocScrutinizer05how's the app going to know where to in swap the swapped-out pages got moved?20:20
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ShadowJK"themselves" in quotes perhaps. Page fault happens when app's memory is missing, kernel schedules swapin20:20
DocScrutinizer05I thought that's what kswapd is doing20:20
DocScrutinizer05page fault, exception, kernel, scheduling a swap task in kswapd queue ?20:21
DocScrutinizer05dunno, never looked into that20:22
ShadowJKFrom kernel's point of view, the swapin is accounted as done by app, and all swapouts accounted as done by kswapd20:22
DocScrutinizer05so the swap-in is basically scheduled as a normal (mmap) IO?20:23
DocScrutinizer05in app context20:23
DocScrutinizer05makes sense20:23
DocScrutinizer05so swap-in is also susceptible to ionice?20:24
ShadowJKthere's little distinction made in a high level sense between disk cache, executable code, libraries and "anonymous memory"20:24
ShadowJKNo idea, but in practice it's hard to make ionice work for mapped stuff, I think..20:24
DocScrutinizer05interesting. Thanks for sharing20:25
ShadowJKAlso, the tweaks prioritizing executable/library memory over disk cache was added later than 2.6.28, iirc20:25
ShadowJKIn any case, swapout hurts us significantly more than swapin20:25
DocScrutinizer05that's for sure20:28
DocScrutinizer05since damn swap-out is a write to a media that's exceptionally slow on write, compared to read20:28
ShadowJKin my experience, lowering page-cluster after things start swapping heavily helps20:29
ShadowJKAs it'll preread in 16k or something instead of full 128k20:30
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RST38hShadowJK: Given that flash pages are 128k, how is it going to help?20:32
RST38hOne way or another it will still have to switch a full page in20:32
ShadowJKNot entirely20:35
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ShadowJKerase units are bigger than 128k, but you can read them in pages of 4k on the emmc, and the latency hit in switching to another "128k" on read is insignificant enough20:36
ShadowJKWhile a whole "128k" has to be erased for writing, once erased you can also write it 4k at a time :-)20:39
ShadowJKBut the emmc's ability to keep track of partially written things is extremely limiteed.20:39
ShadowJKMost kingston stuff, for example, can keep track of 1. :-)20:40
ShadowJKSo as soon as you venture outside your current 128k block, the next time you come back it's full erase-modify-write again.20:40
ShadowJKBetter stuff is able to track 8-12 open erase blocks20:41
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DocScrutinizer05well, I suppose it will clean out pages whenever it can, but pretty soon there's no "empty" pages left over. As long as there's an empty page the controlled can read-modfy-write_elswhere without prior page erase20:43
DocScrutinizer05and in fact it's the erase that takes ages, while writing to a erased page is comparably fast20:44
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DocScrutinizer05thus an optimized API would allow to mark blocks as empty20:45
DocScrutinizer05some controllers try to deduce this from interpreting the fs, by looking at the FAT20:46
DocScrutinizer05thus they could erase unused pages async20:46
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DocScrutinizer05anyway if I had to design the controller, I'd use virging pages to do a readA-modify-writeB-eraseA cycle, instead of a readA-modify-eraseA-writeA20:49
DocScrutinizer05yeah, trim goes this direction20:50
DocScrutinizer05anyway a mkfs tends to spam the whole device with inodes, so no virgin pages left over20:51
DocScrutinizer05except maybe for the hidden spare pages if the card has any20:52
DocScrutinizer05you could test that with two virgin cards, creating a 100% partition on one and a 90% partition on the other, then compare performance20:53
DocScrutinizer05the more free empty pages the card has, the longer the burst you can write before deferred page-erase kicks in and needs to finish clearing a page for the next chunk to write20:56
DocScrutinizer05I think equally spread inodes across the whole storage range are the worst thing you can do to a flash storage20:57
ShadowJKI'm not so sure the SD protocol lends itself to the device doing background cleaning :/20:59
ShadowJKNew kernels and new SD cards (or emmc), and with driver support, there's actually a trim available21:00
dos1"The MultiMediaCard and SD ERASE (CMD38) command provides similar functionality to the ATA TRIM command, although it requires that erased blocks be overwritten with either zeroes or ones. eMMC 4.5 further defines a "discard" sub-operation that more closely matches ATA TRIM in that the contents of discarded blocks can be considered indeterminate (i.e., "don't care")."21:00
dos1via wiki21:00
ShadowJKBut whether cards actually do anything useful with it is unknown. Full device trim runs so fast on the card I've got in my raspberry pi, I suspect it's a no-op on the card :-)21:01
ShadowJKOh the a-data card in my N800 actually shows improved performance after dd of zeroes :-)21:02
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ShadowJKBut after a full erase, it slows down far sooner than writing its capacity21:03
ShadowJKat 10% mark or so..21:03
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: (so fast) or deferred21:04
DocScrutinizer05dos1: thanks21:05
ShadowJKWell the bestest best cards now allegedly run a SLC mode log-structured cache, to help making FAT update faster on their new fancy 12 megabyte blocksize TLC nand21:05
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ecc3gthere should be an option on MLC/TLC cards to run in SLC mode at the cost of halving or 1/3 the memory... I wonder how long the card would last in such a mode...21:08
ecc3gor I should say "slc" mode - using each cell for one bit instead of 2 or 3.21:09
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ShadowJKI have a (fullsize) SD card SLC 16GB.21:12
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ShadowJKIt's not that great21:12
ShadowJKWould be more worthwhile spending silicon on improving the FTL21:12
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SysaxedHey guys, my phone was shut down most likely because watchdog tried to reboot it, now I cannot boot it at all. When I press power button I can see NOKIA logo on the white screen but then nothing happens21:14
SysaxedI even had some boot menu installed, but even if I open my keyboard it wont get to it21:15
Sysaxedsimply turns off after showing nokia logo21:15
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Sysaxedanybody? :)21:32
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ShadowJKNo idea, other than that bootloader throws up the logo21:33
ShadowJKso it's not proceeding from that21:33
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ShadowJKSo.. storage died, it thinks battery is dead, os is missing, other fault?21:33
Sysaxedcould it be that it has no free space?21:35
Sysaxedbattery is not dead for sure21:36
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Sysaxedif I plug in my USB cable then it shows the logo, turns off backlight, then reboots and does it again and again21:38
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SysaxedI've tried taking out sd card but that doesn't seem to change anything21:41
Sysaxedso... reflashing is the only way?21:41
SAiFgive 10 min without battery and try again?21:43
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Sysaxedthat's actually a good idea, but I'm afraid that my device doesn't need whole 10 minutes21:45
Sysaxedeven 10 seconds without the battery will result in a date reset21:45
Sysaxedbut I will try it, thanks21:46
Sysaxedis there anything that I can use to debug current situationL21:46
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ShadowJKI'm wondering if flasher could upload a kernel+initram without flashing it, and boot that for some sort of minimalist debugos21:53
ShadowJKdunno if such an image exists though..21:54
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ShadowJKNever really looked up this rescueos thing or how it works21:54
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Sysaxedno, battery trick did not work22:00
Sysaxedwell, at least my files are backed up22:01
Sysaxedbut still, bootmenu gave me false feeling that I'm safe even if something bad happens22:01
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Fayhello all22:18
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DocScrutinizer05it's called rescueOS22:29
infobotwell, rescueos is
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DocScrutinizer05Sysaxed: ^^^22:30
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SysaxedI wish there were more DocScrutinizers in the world22:38
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: do you have any kids? :)22:38
Sysaxedif yes - good job! :)22:40
Sysaxedplease excuse my momentary oblivion22:45
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Sysaxed"to disable this message type 'stfu'"22:55
SysaxedI get Attention: Charge the battery bla-bla Current: 0%22:56
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Sysaxeddoes it mean that something is wrong with the battery?22:56
ShadowJKDoes it mention a voltage? Otherwise the charge meter could've been reset when you had the battery out22:57
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Sysaxedumm, now when rescueos is running, what can I try?22:59
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Sysaxedfor example, how can I check the free space?23:02
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Sysaxed/rescueOS/ says umount: can't umount /mnt/maemo: Invalid argument23:05
SysaxedCouldn't unmount. Most likely your fault. Are you in /mnt/maemo ?23:05
Sysaxedah shit23:06
SysaxedI'm dumb23:06
Sysaxedgot it working, thanks23:06
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Sysaxedholy shit23:11
Sysaxednow it booted up correctly23:11
Sysaxedhow could this happen23:11
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SysaxedWell, I cannot believe it, but seems like simply booting rescue os fixed the problem23:18
DocScrutinizer05Sysaxed: I'm scared by the idea there could be more grumpy old men just like me23:22
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DocScrutinizer05anyway I consider defect battery a plausible cause of your problems23:23
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DocScrutinizer05Sysaxed: I'm doing my share to help extinct mankind - so no, no kids here23:25
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: Sysaxed: I'm doing my share to help exterminate mankind - so no, no kids here23:26
DocScrutinizer05maybe NIN101 has kids - would be the way better elternative to me getting scared by my alter egos23:28
DocScrutinizer05alternative even23:28
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Palifor testers: pre release version of kp53:
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NIN101me? Better not :-).23:31
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: noooooooo :( are you kidding me23:33
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* DocScrutinizer05 just thought about a world with 95% of human beings being an exact clone of DocScrutinizer05. :-o A terrible place to be, for ~218 minutes. Then maybe evolution gets a second chance after the slaughter23:38
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