IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2013-10-22

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bindiis the n900 back cover leaning latch mechanism easily dismantleable, in a way so I can attach it back?02:47
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bindigot it dismantled now :P02:53
bindigonna be a hell to put it back though02:55
bindicrap from 5 years ago02:56
bindidust and all that02:56
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bindi yay03:43
bindihad to remove the other screw to twist it and align it03:43
mashinapop quiz: how many of you scratch your ear with the stylus?03:44
bindiis there any http webgui webcam thingy with focus control for maemo? (related to above link :P)03:45
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bindiDocScrutinizer05: how can I detect a knock now that my n900 is mounted to my door? :P04:18
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, either with the accelerometer, which actually has a detector for knocks/taps, though this isn't supported by mce and sys/* nodes, so you need to stop all that and talk directly to the lis302 via I2C04:50
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DocScrutinizer05or you poll constantly and detect in software, which is not THAT bad when using the device stationary. Same applies for microphone04:52
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DocScrutinizer05bindi: ^^^04:52
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bindiDocScrutinizer05: can i hook to those with python easily? python is my preferred language for fiddling with this05:31
bindii dont actually have any experience doing something as fancy as this05:31
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bindipreferrably looking for "hold my hand" type of help :D05:33
bindigood start would be something that gives me a numeric value for vibration/sensor data so i can start doing some knocking and see what kind of values it gets05:34
bindicat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord05:35
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bindiits perfectly still yet the values change05:40
bindithis seems hard :p05:42
bindi this is output of the sensor stuff every 30 msec05:45
bindime doing some random knocking on the door05:45
DocScrutinizer05yeah, this is kinda sub-optimal. The chip has built-in highpass filters that emphasize changes and filter out the constant component of the signal05:46
bindiso, what then? :P05:46
bindimicrophone? thats like way more advanced05:46
DocScrutinizer05as I said, it's not exactly easy to configure and interface the lis302 accelerometer in a senisble way05:47
DocScrutinizer05maemo drivers don't support it05:47
DocScrutinizer05for microphone you probably do a constant sampling and some pattern matching05:48
bindidoable in python? :d05:48
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DocScrutinizer05well, I don't know. Isn't gnuradio also python? If that's the case, then I'd think it's feasible for sure since gnuradio is way more complex than your intended program06:44
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DocScrutinizer05anyway python is capable of recording stuff from audio, and once it got recorded (1s sample?) you can analyze it, that's simple number crunching08:08
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Macerwell. if there is one thing you miss right away about an n900 it is that awesome hw keyboard heh08:22
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l4m3rxGood morning :)09:49
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deepykerio: how do I power on my N900? no button is werking14:25
deepynevermind, got it14:26
deepydarnit, forgot my lock code14:29
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deepykerio: how do I reset the lock code D:?14:33
l4m3rx^ if u don't have access to the terminal. if you do
deepyI have Robbieäs BackupMenu14:37
l4m3rxecho root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): > somefile14:39
l4m3rxwill store DES hash of ur pass in 'somefile'14:39
l4m3rxyou can run it on ur pc it will take only few minutes. (with john or whatever software u like)14:40
l4m3rxits 100%  5 symbols long and only digits, so this makes it quite easy to bf14:41
deepyI lack a USB cable14:41
l4m3rxgo old school14:43
l4m3rxgrep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -114:43
l4m3rxon the n90014:43
deepyHow/where do I run that?14:44
l4m3rxand write it on ur pc :]14:44
l4m3rxbootmenu allowed some shell access if i'm not wrong14:44
deepyoh, found it14:45
deepyjust getting a black screen14:46
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deepywoo, restored backup14:52
deepycan I turn off the backlight no the keys?14:57
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DocScrutinizer05actually echo root:$(busybox grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): > somefile15:02
deepycan't remembe my password for root15:03
DocScrutinizer05too bad. uninstall and reinstall ssh15:03
DocScrutinizer05or simply try command "root"15:04
DocScrutinizer05on device15:04
deepythat worked better15:04
deepydoesn't the application manager work anymore?15:05
DocScrutinizer05it should15:05
deepyit's just laoding and loading for me15:05
deepynothing happens15:05
DocScrutinizer05takes ~7 minutes15:05
DocScrutinizer05depending on the repos aka catalogs you enabled15:06
infobotsomebody said ham was Hildon Application Manager.  Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does15:06
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DocScrutinizer05with nothing but the basic repos it takes lile 10s. with extras catalog enabled it takes 3..5min. With extras, extras-testing, AND extras-devel all enabled, it takes >10min15:06
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: with nothing but the basic repos it takes like 10s. with extras catalog enabled it takes 3..5min. With extras, extras-testing, AND extras-devel all enabled, it takes >10min15:07
deepyhmm, it doens't have mosh for me15:07
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DocScrutinizer05mosh? meh!15:08
DocScrutinizer05mosh is nonsense in my book15:08
deepywhat do you mean meh?15:08
deepymosh is brilliant15:08
* RST38h yawns15:09
DocScrutinizer05mosh is a battery killer. Dunno who stole the brain of the devels15:09
deepyhow is it a battery killer?15:09
RST38hI did. Have it in a jar, pickled.15:09
DocScrutinizer05mosh is brilliant for anything EXCEPT mobile use15:09
DocScrutinizer05deepy: it sens a ping every other second15:10
RST38hAnything wrong with screen?15:10
DocScrutinizer05which is pretty much a sure recipe to make modem cut thru your battery in 2..3h15:10
DocScrutinizer05screen is all fine15:11
DocScrutinizer05mosh is BS15:11
deepyeven when it's not in use?15:11
deepyimplementation detail!15:11
DocScrutinizer05unless you mean "not started"15:11
deepyandroid version does not15:11
DocScrutinizer05android is not a OS15:12
DocScrutinizer05android is a disease15:12
RST38hMeanwhile:  A pre-order page from Dell for the Xbox One "accidentally" (and, it appears, officially) revealed that Windows 8.1 apps will run on the Xbox.15:12
deepyBut they still have an usable mosh client and the N900 does not ;-)15:12
DocScrutinizer05of course mosh doesn't send pings when in background on android, since NOTHING does ANYTHING in this situation15:13
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DocScrutinizer05deepy: stop spreading nonsense!15:13
deepyit did in the version before15:13
DocScrutinizer05the fact that android stops all background processes is neither a desirable feature nor does it fix the fundamentally broken mosh15:14
deepyit's perfectly possible to make an app that runs in the background on Android15:15
deepyand ssh is impossible to use here when 'm walking around15:15
DocScrutinizer05it's perfectly possible to live without taking notice of android15:15
deepySure it is, but I like being able to use irssi15:15
DocScrutinizer05so what?15:16
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deepyworks great when ssh drops every minute15:16
DocScrutinizer05roundabout 60% of the users in here use irssi15:16
l4m3rxIt's not normal in 2013 to need to do extra stuff just so one app can run in bground...don't u think?15:16
DocScrutinizer05some even use screen with irssi15:16
DocScrutinizer05man screen15:17
deepyI use screen with irssi, but you're missing the point15:17
deepymy connection drops about once every minute15:17
DocScrutinizer05so what?15:17
l4m3rxfix ur connection :)15:17
deepythen I have to reconnect15:17
l4m3rxif u ask me, this is the way to go ;]15:17
deepyl4m3rx: sure, come and fix Dublin's 3G network15:17
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deepyI think my favorite one is when ssh just stops, like, it's disconnected but it doesn't notice15:19
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deepyand then after like 2 minutes it times out15:19
DocScrutinizer05honestly, when you network forces your device to get another DHCP lease every 60s, you're seriously out of luck15:19
deepyexcept it works with mosh, I don't really see the problem there15:19
DocScrutinizer05the nice thing with ssh: my (W)LAN ssh session to N900 resumes even after 90min out to the pub15:20
DocScrutinizer05since IP doesn't change15:20
deepyThat's WLAN, I'm using mobile internet15:20
DocScrutinizer05that's absolutely no difference15:20
deepyWell, I don't know what I'm doing wrong then, but the connection dies and refuses to restart15:21
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l4m3rxdeepy go 2g?15:21
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deepysame issue15:22
l4m3rxchange providers?15:22
deepyit's Dublin, they're all bad in one way or another15:22
DocScrutinizer05that's ridiculous15:23
deepyof course it is15:24
deepyand so is the fact that the best internet I can get here is 8/0.515:24
l4m3rxspeed and stability of the connection are quite different things15:24
deepyI stopped caring about stability when I moved here15:25
DocScrutinizer05and 8/0.5 (I assume Mbit DSL) doesn't sound too bad to me15:25
deepyhome nework dies for ~3 minutes roughly 10 times per day15:25
l4m3rxy, but if u keep in mind that the avreage session is 2-3min..15:25
deepythat's between 5PM and 3AM15:26
deepydon't know about the rest15:26
l4m3rxcan I ask, how much do u pay for that?15:27
DocScrutinizer05can I ask how many of your neighbours are reporting similar issues?15:27
deepyWe don't know any of our neighbours15:28
DocScrutinizer05thought as much15:28
l4m3rxur hardcode dude .... i would have killed most of the ISP/gsm guys by now15:28
DocScrutinizer05otherwise you wouldn't have accepted it as your fate15:28
deepyl4m3rx: if you call the ISP they just say "everything is fine from here, call eircom"15:28
DocScrutinizer05worldwide standard reply15:29
l4m3rxand ericom is ur phone provider,right? ( i mean the phone cable network ) ?15:29
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deepyour ISP pretty much uses eircoms infrastructure15:29
deepythey have their own DNS servers but that's about it15:29
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l4m3rxevery ISP should have their own network (my oppinion)15:30
l4m3rxthis way , the users have real alternatives.15:30
deepyDocScrutinizer05: though theother guys had the exact same issue when they lived 3km away from here15:30
l4m3rxdon't the ISPs offer FO to home?15:31
deepyYou can get that in some areas15:32
deepywell, cable modem15:32
DocScrutinizer05honestly, you need to kick your provider's ass15:32
l4m3rx^^ that's what I said.15:32
DocScrutinizer05they charge you for a service they don't deliver15:33
l4m3rxtell them "fix it, or give me FO!"15:33
deepyWhat they are doing is not illegal, that's the problem15:33
DocScrutinizer05both on DSL and on GSM/UMTS15:33
DocScrutinizer05it is illegal15:33
deepybut anyways, how do I turn off the backlight on m keyboard?15:33
DocScrutinizer05that's way beyond any sane and accepted QoS15:33
deepymaybe it's my eyes fooling me15:34
deepycould've sworn it was backlit15:35
deepywasn't there a tab key on the keyboard too?15:35
DocScrutinizer05backlight on kbd only shines in the dark, when it's bright enough in your location it doesn't waste energy15:38
DocScrutinizer05and no, there never been a tab key, the kbd is no morph15:38
deepyI can't turn it of completely?15:38
DocScrutinizer05for f in /sys/class/leds/lp5523\:kb?/; do echo 0 >${f}/led_current; done15:38
deepyoh well, off to town to get a SIM card15:38
deepyoh btw, before that, is thre anything cool I should install?15:39
DocScrutinizer05it might get tricky to permanently disable kbd backlight, you might need a patched mce for doing that15:39
deepyand is there any good mud client?15:40
DocScrutinizer05just an idea: are you sure you got the right dataplan for your SIM? maybe it's some special dataplan for iPhone only - or whatever. As soon as they detect e.g. VoIP or skype or email or whatever from your device, they kick you?15:42
deepynope, it's the generic data plan15:43
deepyit drops when I'm on the bus and move15:43
DocScrutinizer05then it shouldn't disconnect every other minute15:43
deepyit does when I'm on the bus :)15:44
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DocScrutinizer05seems you got pretty poor coverage then15:44
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mashinain a metal cage that moves alot surronded by other cell users15:45
deepywelcome to Ireland15:45
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DocScrutinizer05and still it should not get new DHCP lease aka IP addr when connectivity re-established15:45
DocScrutinizer05other cell users largely irrelevant15:45
mashinawelcome to canda, 100 MB for 10.75!15:46
mashinano too sure how many € it is15:46
DocScrutinizer05well, here it's 50..500 for that price, so your 100 is pretty fine15:47
DocScrutinizer055GB for 30EUR15:47
mashinaits when you get of prepaid it gets insane15:47
DocScrutinizer05doesn't parse15:48
mashinalike 80 for tiny plans on contract15:48
DocScrutinizer05seems I'm not able to read that canadian slang15:49
mashinaeuropean hosers man15:50
mashinathey aren't good at hocket15:50
mashinaaboot time finland started not to suck15:50
* DocScrutinizer05 is out15:50
mashinaandroid fans have a curious idea of what open source is15:51
mashinathey even support sealing off the platform15:51
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Deepa-hey! I do not have ssh!16:09
Deepa-how do I install it?16:10
deepyhmm, bit too much lag and a bit too large font16:13
deepyalso white backgroumd :/16:14
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l4m3rxfont color & size and bground color can be change from the terminal settings menu16:39
l4m3rxyou can use the volume+ volume- buttons from font size change too16:40
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ntycan i use *.bdf font in xterm? how to install it ?17:07
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DocScrutinizer05wtf MheiGB18030-Medium Light ?18:02
DocScrutinizer05prolly the worst name for a font I ever seen18:03
ntyits font for jpanese text sir18:03
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DocScrutinizer05makes sense18:03
ntygb is codepage prolly18:03
deepyMedium light?18:04
DocScrutinizer05that's what's written there18:05
deepyIs there a heavy light?18:05
DocScrutinizer05dunno, but medium italic and medium bold18:06
ntyalso why some font isnt available in xtern font chooser?18:06
DocScrutinizer05honestly no idea about that18:06
DocScrutinizer05X11 and fonts.... :-S18:07
DocScrutinizer05find out how to do it on your desktop linux, and odds are it works similar on maemo18:07
DocScrutinizer05I think I never looked into this since the days when staroffice came with a windows ttf importer tool18:09
ntysame problem like Konsole in kde, for no reason they refuse to show some font altho its installed...18:09
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infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs is OK (no ~bootloop)!.21:10
japa-fisixwheeledbeast, is that for recovering totally empty battery or some other situation?21:16
japa-fiAnd is nokia wallcharger mandatory, why not PC USB?21:17
sixwheeledbeastjapa-fi: yep and yep21:17
sixwheeledbeastNormally the first thing to do with a not booting device.21:18
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sonohmm, i wonder21:36
infobotsomebody said bootloop was when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing.21:36
sonoso one can reflash21:36
sonowhat if i somehow manage to mess up the installed kernel, and let's say i don't have uboot on it21:37
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sonoprobably could just read wiki, ...21:38
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fk_lxwhat you liked and what you disliked in Maemo community21:49
DefiantI dislike nokia21:49
fk_lxDefiant: from beginning?21:49
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fk_lxcould anyone mention biggest mistakes that Nokia did in relations with Maemo community?21:53
RST38hHired Elop?21:54
fk_lxRST38h: :-)21:54
fk_lxbut before that21:54
fk_lxwe talking about period from beginning of Maemo to moment where Meego was started21:55
fk_lx(later I will ask about Meego)21:55
RST38hDidn't hand every blogger like you a free N900?21:55
fk_lxRST38h: I'm not blogger ;-)21:56
RST38hok, scrap "like you" part21:56
fk_lxRST38h: what do you think about giving devices for free? do you think they were always given to the right person? do you think there could be a better way of deciding who should receive developer devices?21:58
RST38hI think "How do I know?"21:59
RST38hThen, I think "Why would I care?"21:59
RST38hFinally, I think "Why is he asking, anyway?"21:59
fk_lxRST38h: doing some analysis for university course about open source22:00
fk_lxRST38h: and at the momment focusing on community relations part22:00
fk_lxrelations between companies and communities22:00
RST38hOh, ok22:01
fk_lxso that's why I'm asking about mistakes of Nokia22:01
fk_lxI don't have time to read the whole TMO :-)22:01
RST38hAnd you are asking it on an IRC channel, right?22:02
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fk_lxbut I can read those parts connected with certain issues, if someone can name them22:02
RST38hOk, so you want us to do this research for you, so that you can read relevant parts and choose which ones you are gonna use?22:03
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l4m3rx`homeRST38h, why don't u read the maemo meetings logs ? they should be usefull for u22:03
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fk_lxRST38h: hehe, I don't expect anyone do sth for me22:04
fk_lxRST38h: besides I want to hear different opinions22:04
l4m3rx`homeopz sorry RST38h i ment fk_lx  :]22:05
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fk_lxl4m3rx`home: thanks for tip22:06
fk_lxl4m3rx`home: are you able to name three biggest mistakes (of course in your opinion) of Nokia in relations with Maemo community22:07
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l4m3rx`homemm.. nope.. .pretty much everything they did after they released the N9 ...or a bit after that.22:13
Siceloso people now say Nokia released their first tablet today :P22:14
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fk_lxSicelo: yeah, that is not true -> 770 as first Nokia Internet Tablet ;-)22:15
fk_lxnot Lumia one22:15
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Siceloanyway, one thing for sure.. Nokia is a great device manufacturer, hands down. too bad they made the wrong decisions at the wrong time22:17
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fk_lxSicelo: yeah22:19
fk_lxbut I'm interested in community relations stuff, and times before Meego22:19
Sicelolol. what's that going to do?22:20
Sicelolooking at your question before.. i guess Nokia never felt that it owed the community anything. that's why many bugs were WONTFIX. otoh, i would give them credit for what they did. i don't see any other handset manufacturer giving as much support as Maemo appears to have once received22:23
fk_lxSicelo: so support was the good part?22:24
fk_lxSicelo: and what was the most important in that for you?22:24
fk_lxI mean what kind of support would you expect from example from nowadays companies like Google for example or Canonical?22:25
Sicelofk_lx: i only became a Maemo user in 2011, after support had ended :P22:26
Sicelowhat's your `purpose` btw, if you don't mind?22:27
fk_lxSicelo: mentioned -> university course22:29
fk_lxbesides I'm active in some communities - we now build Python association in our country and will be looking for ways of cooperating with companies22:31
Siceloi'm a bad subject, haha. i hope someone 'useful' comes around soon22:31
fk_lxso this kind of knowledge will be useful for more purposes22:31
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fk_lxwell for know I have a feeling like I've went in some unknown territory22:32
fk_lxand on that unknonw territory no one is willing to help22:33
fk_lxor almost no one ;-)22:33
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fk_lxI have thought my question is quite simple :-)22:35
Siceloi can only point you to reviews on the internet, which give the story behind symbian and maemo.. i don't know how accurate they are, but that's the best info i can give you22:36
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fk_lxSicelo: well I've read some, but would appreciate if you would give those links you are thinking off, might be some new stuff to me22:37
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Sicelosame ones you find on google, lol. i don't have bookmarks to them on my N90022:37
Siceloalso, include Windows Phone in your reading, as that twill give you an insight into some of the frustrations, both from Nokia management and community... which i guess is what you want22:38
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sixwheeledbeastsono: rescueOS23:32
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Tekk_Has anyone worked on an actually usable port of mumble? 1.2 has been out for years yet only 1.1 is in the repos23:43
Tekk_and I've literally never seen a 1.1 server23:43
brolin_empeyPali: Any news regarding my 2 kernel-power patches?23:43
infoboti guess pkg is
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infobotit has been said that mumble is in extras-devel and unstable23:48
sono^ tried that recently23:48
sononot useable23:48
sonomaybe you have better luck; make sure to report =)23:49
sonoalso, orphaned, apparently23:49
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sixwheeledbeastseems 1.2.3-1maemo5 is the latest for maemo23:50
keriosono: the n900 is incredibly resilient to software fuckups, as long as your musb port is working23:51
sono1.2.3-1maemo5, yes23:51
sonokerio: that is nifty23:51
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sixwheeledbeastmaybe ping "aapo" on TMO and ask to build the latest version again from sourceforge23:51
sonoit has two major issues (mumble) first is audio latency, second is crashes when you open config menu23:51
kerioprobably both related to pulseaudio23:51
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sonoin all likelyhood23:51
sonounfortunately, i have too much stuff on my hat as it is23:52
Tekk_hmm, does it totally break if you remove pulse then?23:52
keriosono: there's a thing stored in a ROM that allows you to load the bootloader via usb, which then allows you to flash the correct bootloader, which then allows you to flash everything else23:52
Tekk_I'm not a big fan of it anyway23:52
kerioin case of extreme fuckup23:52
sonokerio: couldn't have been done better..23:52
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sonoalso, now it refuses to terminate23:53
sonothat was that23:53
kerioif you fuck up the CAL partition at worst you get a nonworking bluetooth23:53
sixwheeledbeastbuilder says libcelt0-0 is missing from depends23:53
keriobecause it doesn't know its own mac address23:53
keriobut you can fix that later23:53
keriobootloops are dangerous however23:53
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keriobecause if the battery's too low you can't flash23:54
keriobut it won't be charged23:54
kerioso you need a different charger or a different battery23:54
sonopresumably, i can rig something to charge the battery externally23:54
sonoif i ever get into that situation23:54
keriodon't "rig" anything23:54
sonoor just inject power23:54
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keriodon't fuck with lithium batteries23:54
sononah, i have a good charger =)23:54
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sonoas long as the battery doesn't pretend to be smarter than me, i'm good23:55
kerioBL-5Js have no "smart" chip23:56
sonoeither way, that is hopefully a long way off, if it ever happens to me23:56
kerioit's on the n900 board itself23:56
infobothmm... bq27k-detail is
sonosee, that's what i love most about this phone that i only call my own since 3 weeks23:56
sonoit's well documented, and has a well-informed community23:56
keriowhat i hate about this phone: it's got no fucking ram :c23:57
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sonothe design shows its age.. omap1 isn't exactly a teen either23:57
kerioisn't it omap323:58
sonoi always thought it was23:58
sonobut.. oh right23:58
sonoi got confused today by the uname23:58
sonoi suppose the kernel is just called omap123:58
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