IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-10-24

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brolin_empeyDocScrutinizer05: Then 95% of the human population would be male.01:00
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sonobrolin_empey: not after the cleansing.01:08
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ds3anyone here besides the developers seriously considering the new MB option for the N900?04:40
Tekk_seriously considering how?04:40
ds3as in ready to write a check if the kickstarter funds04:41
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Tekk_personally I'm not interested in it since it seems like a really puny upgrade for the extra price04:41
ds3but is there really anything better that is useable?04:42
Tekk_I'd just continue using the old board04:42
Tekk_until something else(hopefully mer/nemo based) comes along04:43
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ds3what would make it worthwhile for you?04:44
Tekk_the motherboard upgrade?04:44
Tekk_probably at least 1 gb ram, cpu either with more cores(might be helpful since maemo is so multitask friendly) or at least clocked higher than people overclock the original processor to04:45
bef0rdit can't get any cheaper if the production quantities are low04:45
bef0rdit's 1GB RAM already04:45
Tekk_I thought it was 51204:45
Tekk_okay, that just leaves the cpu then :)04:45
ds3isn't multicore going to slam battery life?04:46
Tekk_actually does the new modem support at&t freqs?04:46
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ds3wish there was some clear indicator on if they will add BLE or not though04:46
bef0rdthere are three modem options, but I don't know about at&t freqs04:46
Tekk_lte modem does04:47
Tekk_and the 3g04:48
ds3I do wonder if they are going to get IMEI blocked by ATT since ATT likes to certify their devices04:48
Tekk_might be worth it between being able to use better than edge and more ram04:48
Tekk_but I haven't any money to pledge04:48
uncloudeda big advantage will be that the hardware is much better supported by the kernel, meaning you won't be stuck with 2.6 and other operating systems will run on it much better04:49
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bef0rdyea, hopefully the nokia closed bits won't affect the kernel in anyway05:01
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brolin_empeyTekk_: The Nokia N900 does not support the UMTS bands used by Telus Mobility, Bell Mobility, and their MVNOs in Canada.  Telus Mobility and Bell Mobility use only CDMA2000 and UMTS, not GSM.  If the Neo900 supports these UMTS bands, then the Neo900 has a significant advantage over the Nokia N900 in Canada.06:52
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SysaxedHello! I'm experiencing something weird. Yesterday I was asking here about my phone not booting, but it finally booted and everything was fine. Today I was using my phone and suddenly it said that my sim card was disconnected. Ok, but after 10 seconds it told me that now it is connected and asked me for the pin code. I entered my pin code correctly two times each time receiving "invalid pin", on the third try it worked and connected12:19
Sysaxedcorrectly. Okay, but after some time this happened again... and again and again. So I decided to reboot my phone, but now it was not booting again. So I was playing around with reinserting the battery and finally it worked, but it did not manage to boot and got stuck on these loading dots. I've tried again - didn't work... So some time later I've tried it again and it worked from the third try or so. SIM card problem appeared soon after12:19
Sysaxedsuccessful boot. Now it is working, but says that sim card is not there. Also if I try to charge it I get "Not Charging" message. Any ideas?12:19
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chainsawbikeSysaxed, it sound like the issue when due to heat/the board flexing a chips solder joints have broken :( ( cant think of what to search for on the forums, but its there somewhere)12:39
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Sysaxedhmmm, okay, anybody else?13:11
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Sysaxedchainsawbike: thanks, but it is still weird that it happened without anything happening before13:12
SysaxedI can understand if it fell and then started to act like this13:12
Sysaxedbut maybe you're right13:12
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cehtehSysaxed: do you do any over/under clocking/volting?13:31
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narcosHi maemo folks. Some time back one of you gave me a URL that when browsed to on the N900 would load a bunch of repos automatically. Anyone got that link mentally cached?13:37
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DocScrutinizer05for the record:
DocScrutinizer05or simply13:49
infobotrumour has it, jrtools is
DocScrutinizer05which has a link to the file13:49
DocScrutinizer05Sysaxed: sounds like hw defect :ยด(13:50
DocScrutinizer05when you're extremely lucky, it's just the battery that's defect13:51
DocScrutinizer05Sysaxed: standard recommendation: full reflash PR1.3.1, no installation of any additional apps, test for a week in this state13:52
DocScrutinizer05I know reflash sounds inconvenient, but given the alternative of instantly binning the device, it's for sure worth to give it a try13:53
sonoexcellent howto but what IS rw/tools?13:54
sonosorry, i just wanted to know what the outlined procedure is for13:54
sonobecaues it sounds like something i might want to do, ...13:55
sonois CSSU = thumb = jrtools?13:55
DocScrutinizer05jrtools is a collection of little hints I found/developed during last 4 years13:55
sonook, CSSU = what i am using now13:56
sonothumb = probably somewhere in the wiki13:56
sonoand this page = doc's personal howtos13:56
deepyis there any email client that supports gmail?13:56
DocScrutinizer05not sure13:56
sonogmail supports pop3 and imap so yes, any, probably?13:56
DocScrutinizer05modest (stock mailer) supports imap and pop3 and smtp13:57
deepyyoud think so, but I get an error about the message not existimg on server13:57
sonohrm. "an error"13:57
sonomaybe sniff in on that and try to find out what is going on13:57
DocScrutinizer05seems imap support is kinda flawed in stock modest, use CSSU13:57
sonoDocScrutinizer05: "modest"?13:57
DocScrutinizer05the maemo mailer13:58
deepyI thought I was using CSSU13:58
sonobloody UI stuff never told me what it was called =)13:58
DocScrutinizer05check changelog linked to on13:58
infobotcssu is probably
DocScrutinizer05it has fixes particularly for gmail iirc13:58
* sono finds and reads13:59
sonogotta use that lunch break for something useful =)13:59
Sysaxedcehteh: no, I've not done any overclocking13:59
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: what if it is the battery, would changing the battery fix the problem?14:03
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DocScrutinizer05old worn battery LiIon cells tend to develop high effective Series Resistance (ESR), and sometimes behave quite random on this. A high ESR causes "brownout" when current bursts are drawn from battery by e.g. the modem during TX14:04
DocScrutinizer05and the modem switches off earlier than the OMAP APE linux system14:05
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DocScrutinizer05earlier as in "higher battery voltage"14:05
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: sounds logical14:05
Sysaxedconsidering the fact that these are some random chinese batteries14:05
Sysaxedok, I have another battery working perfectly with another n90014:06
SysaxedI'll give it a try soon14:06
DocScrutinizer05short brownouts can cause quite random erratic behaviour of all components of a system14:06
DocScrutinizer05think of it like extreme undervolting14:06
DocScrutinizer05processes can segfault at random14:07
DocScrutinizer05memory IO may fail14:07
DocScrutinizer05make sure you try a good battery14:07
DocScrutinizer05but, sorry to say this, I have only little hope it's caused by your battery14:08
DocScrutinizer05try to install ksyslogd and provide a full pastebin, so I could have a look at it14:08
DocScrutinizer05syslog may reveal some hints on what's going on14:09
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zamn900DocScrutinizer05, hello... do you know a way to save the xchat configuration to prevent its reset after closing this app on n900?17:25
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DocScrutinizer05zammy: just close the app via the app's close-app button/menu17:40
DocScrutinizer05alternatively there once been a "save settings" menu entry, dunno if it still exists17:41
zemmyDocScrutinizer05, but it says something like Error key binding.. stuff17:43
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, then there's probably a syntax or semantics error in the key bindings17:44
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DocScrutinizer05can't find the "save settings" menu entry17:46
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DocScrutinizer05editing the keybindings is a painful exercise anyway, simply because the display is too small to show any reasonable overview or detail view for assigning a binding to a key17:50
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zemmyright... for this reason I want to save the configuration DocScrutinizer05 because it's not only key binding configurable...17:51
DocScrutinizer05I don't have many bindings. I think shift-space for nick-completion is basically the only one17:52
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zemmythat's all indeed DocScrutinizer0517:52
zemmyI edit font also17:52
zemmyand some color17:52
DocScrutinizer05often I find it simpler ro edit the raw config files in ~/.xchat2/*17:52
zemmydoes it affect?17:53
zemmyI tried... it seemed not17:53
DocScrutinizer05you mustn't have xchat started when editing those files17:53
zemmyyes I know17:53
zemmybut anyway did not effect17:53
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DocScrutinizer05I couldn't figure where else xchat stores settings, afaik they are all in /home/user/.xchat2/17:54
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DocScrutinizer05and several users said they were happy with my files from17:55
infobotfrom memory, jrxchat is
DocScrutinizer05which implies it had effect to "edit" aka change the content of those files17:55
zemmybut most of all weird thing on xchat is that this can handle its own tray icon settings and conf but no real output of this trayicon17:55
DocScrutinizer05there are a few options that are meaningless under maemo/hildon17:56
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zemmyI hate xchat... not editable at all18:03
ShadowJKxchat trayicon worked in Maemo418:08
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* RST38h does remember he had to kick xchat to enable that18:11
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zamn900alright DocScrutinizer05 I was doing one of mines again... I mixed the hexchat of my linux on pc with this n900 xchat and that was messing up all18:24
zamn900now xchat loads naturally its own configuration18:25
zamn900but still I would minimize it in tray18:25
DocScrutinizer05minimizing in tray would mean you need a systemmenu entry to un-minimize it18:26
DocScrutinizer05in hildon there are no dedicated popup menues from particular systray icons when clicking them18:27
zamn900so? no way at all?18:30
zamn900just keeping this as an open chat as all task window18:30
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DocScrutinizer05what alternative to having xchat in taskswitcher would you suggest to un-iconify it?18:37
DocScrutinizer05I can't think of any, and I don't know of any that xchat offers18:38
zamn900maybe screen and some tips of screen it self18:38
zamn900trying to answer not being developer18:38
DocScrutinizer05I'm asking for a method from user perspective, to un-iconify xchat when minimized to systray18:39
zamn900 by the same part idk how do you call it which you see battery and clock?18:42
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zamn900that's user friendly side for trayicon18:43
zamn900otherwise the telepathy plugin for irc should be more developed18:44
zamn900but idk18:45
RST38htelepathy irc plugin is not going to give you proper experience no matter how you develop it18:46
RST38hsimply because it has to use a completely alien ui18:46
zamn900right that's the of idk was minding to18:47
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samn900if this telepathy thing-room could remain open18:54
sonoremote host, mosh, tmux, irssi, bitlbee18:56
samn900what's this18:56
sonobit of effort and learning curve, but *so* worth it18:56
deepyis there any reason not to use the fimger for pressing the softkeys in terminal?18:56
samn900irssi I already know18:57
samn900but are samely likely xchat18:57
samn900I would iconify the client18:58
sonosamn900: first you need an always-on system to connect to, at home (pi, openwrt, ... or an entire rootserver or shell e.g.
samn900whichever client18:58
sonosamn900: then you run mosh on that. configure ssh with key auth for easy access18:58
sonosamn900: run a tmux session there, where you keep irssi open18:59
samn900maybe a bounce in tcl of my eggdrop on my vps do you mean?18:59
sonosamn900: connect irssi to bitlbee for other IM clients18:59
sononah bncs are totally 90's imho19:00
samn900I knewed about it but never started to configure a try it19:00
samn900but maybe it's time to try at least19:01
sonotake one step at a time19:02
sonofirst comes the host and ssh19:02
zemmyI have a vps19:02
sonothe hardest part perhaps19:02
zemmyI have an eggdrop but not connected to this server freenode19:02
zemmyto another one19:03
zemmyI never understood how the bounce script works actually so I never tried it19:04
sonoyou dont need it in the described setup19:04
wndI prefer IRC proxies/bouncers because that gives me the option to freely choose my client (and run it locally, if desired) and still stay online19:07
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sonoi prefer having a central instance19:08
zemmyyes that's what I knewed... wnd so how this happens and what makes the bouncer19:08
sonoit makes managing channels etc. SO much easier19:09
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sonoas well as offering all the other advantages of a remote shell19:10
zemmycan I use the same eggdrop to connect at two different servers with two different nicks?19:10
sononowadays shells are actually commercially available, cheap products..19:10
sonoeven root VMs are dirt cheap19:11
sonolast bnc i ran was 1998 or so19:11
DocScrutinizer05mosh is nonsense19:12
DocScrutinizer05and why you need tmux when you already run mosh?19:13
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sonono, and yes.19:13
sonomosh does not replace tmux19:13
wndunless I'm mistaken, mosh doesn't transfer (cleanly) from one host running the client to another19:14
sonoand atm i am on the bus19:14
sonoif you ever used ssh while moving19:14
DocScrutinizer05I do that all the time19:14
sonoyou won't claim mosh is nonsense19:14
DocScrutinizer05mosh IS nonsense19:14
sonoif yoy say so19:15
SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: it seems like my phone works correctly with another battery19:15
DocScrutinizer05calling an app anything "mobile" that sends a ping every 5 sec or whatever, that is the definition of nonsense19:15
DocScrutinizer05Sysaxed: great19:16
DocScrutinizer05you could as well call ping a battery-saver19:16
sono(mosh is the next best thing after butter btw. already lost link twice this bus ride)19:16
sonodoc. you close it when you dont actively use it. it really is that siimple19:17
DocScrutinizer05that's bullshit19:17
DocScrutinizer05I could as well call VNC a "desktop optimized for mobile"19:18
DocScrutinizer05I just did it, so yes19:18
wndthat's the number one reason I don't want to use mosh: to run it on my n900 without killing the battery, I'd have to close it before idling19:19
sonoclosing it takes a click19:20
DocScrutinizer05so what?19:20
sononew session into tmux takes a click19:20
wndindeed, but creating another connection takes much more than that19:20
DocScrutinizer05so what?19:20
sonotmux: run byobu19:20
DocScrutinizer05why the heck do you need to "create connections"??19:20
sonossh: public key19:20
sonomosh-client: oneliner19:21
zemmywow I am trying sygic on n90019:21
zemmyit's cool19:21
wndI can't trust a mobile device to have a passphraseless ssh key that allows me to log in to any relevant host, and using an agent doesn't really solve anything here19:22
sonothats why i use this host that only has crap on it19:23
DocScrutinizer05my "mosh": while ! ssh -o ServerAliveInterval=300 -p22022 78.46.9287.666 screen -R; do sleep 1; done19:24
DocScrutinizer05to make it more like your mosh, use ServerAliveInterval=319:25
DocScrutinizer05and honestly, fix your APN config, so you don't get a new DHCP lease each time you roam from one cell to another19:27
DocScrutinizer05my ssh sessions stay for a week19:27
sonosgood for you19:27
DocScrutinizer05actually for 24h-1s19:28
sonosome people use consumer carriers19:28
DocScrutinizer05some people do what?19:28
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sonogerman vodafone, good luck with that apn config19:30
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DocScrutinizer05what's wrng with vodafone?19:33
DocScrutinizer05wrong even19:33
DocScrutinizer05only thing I could figure is: your carrier has a sparse coverage and a national roaming agreement with another carrier network, so each time your device is roaming from one network to the other it most likely would get a new DHCP lease and thus IP-addr19:35
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DocScrutinizer05while obviously discarding the old lease locally. So when roaming back from network B to A, it can't resume the lease it had in A either, but again would request a new DHCP lease19:36
DocScrutinizer05this *could* get handled in dnsmasq/ICD, I guess19:37
DocScrutinizer05anyway a connectivity dropout of a few (tens of) seconds never may justify a new DHCP lease19:38
sonolook, i can paste all that to their hotline if you like19:39
DocScrutinizer05I don't care19:39
sonoif they're feeling funny they might escalate the ticket19:39
DocScrutinizer05it's your crappy connection19:39
sonoand send us an amusing response19:39
DocScrutinizer05I'm just telling you that your problems are not exactly normal19:40
sonothey pretty much are, here19:40
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sonoeither way i relax while you frantically hit ~.19:43
* sono shrugs19:43
sonolet's let it pass19:43
DocScrutinizer05I'm listing the possible causes so you could investigate further, but I'm not interested in reports of the "it's like this here, and I found a way to automate the 50 keypresses I need to do twice per minute to cope with it" class19:45
sonothere just isn't anything to investigate except where you live so ican move there and have a week old tcp connection on my mobile, too.19:46
DocScrutinizer05when a carrier network doesn't allow DHCP leases that stay longer than 30s, then there's sth fundamentally wrong with the network. I can't believe anybody would be that stupid.19:46
DocScrutinizer05sono: ok, then please spare us your ranting about your problems, when you don't feel like investigation what cause the have19:47
sonoi was ranting?19:48
DocScrutinizer05even worse, you suggested mosh to a user that for sure doesn't have same problems you got19:48
sonoyou went "bullshit" all over me without a second thought19:48
sonook you know what? i just shut up,19:48
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SysaxedDocScrutinizer05: hey :D20:28
Sysaxedmaybe not....20:29
DocScrutinizer05Sysaxed: hey! :-) glad a new battery fixed it20:29
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DocScrutinizer05maybe not?20:29
Sysaxedwell, I'm not sure, but it seems like I've fixed my old battery20:29
Sysaxedseems like contacts on it were pushed to sides from wear20:30
Sysaxedso I picked them with a needle and bent towards the center20:30
Sysaxedand it seems like everything works great now20:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sounds pretty plausible. Particularly when you maybe connected/contacted the battery with other devices or chargers or whatever20:32
DocScrutinizer05cleaning the device contact blades also might help20:32
SysaxedI'm not sure if it keeps working(last time it started to fail again on another day), but if I don't come here crying that my n900 is dead, then it is fixed :)20:34
DocScrutinizer05install syslog20:34
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DocScrutinizer05a 5 >>/media/mmc1/bat.log  also comes in handy20:36
Sysaxedmmm, what for?20:36
DocScrutinizer05to check how battery behaves20:37
Sysaxedwell, doesn't really matter for me while it works20:37
SysaxedIf only I get the same problem once again...20:37
DocScrutinizer05then you'll miss reference data from the period when it worked20:38
DocScrutinizer05maybe don't use 5 (period time) but 30, to not consume too much space and power20:39
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Sysaxedgood point20:41
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zemmyhow do I activate sygic map?22:34
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sixwheeledbeastzemmy: IIRC sygic send a key in an e-mail on purchase.23:32
zemmyI know... but yet solved23:32
zemmyanyway thanks23:33
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sixwheeledbeastsolved how?23:34
Palifreemangordon: your maemo extras package xkb-data-extkbd eating 2MB on rootfs, what about optification?23:36
zemmycook secret XP23:40
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sixwheeledbeastmmm, I would be interested if I reflash my device with SMM10 on, if I could re-install it again.23:45
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Palifreemangordon: look at this autobuilder error:
Paliautobuilder failed to prepare build env23:53
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freemangordonPali: weird23:58

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