IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-09-25

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sixwheeledbeastwotan147: did someone point you to the logs for yesterday after you logged off?00:05
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wotan147sixwheeledbeast :  nope   how do I get the log?00:10
sixwheeledbeastdid you sort that?00:11
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wotan147sixwheeledbeast yep ;) there was a problem as well with compat of debhelper00:21
sixwheeledbeastwotan147: it should be 5, so have you built the pkg then?00:24
wotan147on my scratchbox it is working with seven   should I put 5 if I want to upload to the repo00:25
wotan147yep I succeeded and now I am trying to build a script to automize it for any qt apps I am making   but in the .pro when you put maemo{   entries and than unix{ entry,  which one will have priorty?  will it default to unix even if maemo is here?00:26
sixwheeledbeastif it works, I don't think I could upload packages built with 700:26
sixwheeledbeastI haven't ever touched the pro file like the wiki says for my Qt packages.00:31
Sc0rpiusJesus Christ QMediaPlayer (Qt) is affected by Silent profile what the efff00:35
Sc0rpiusI had to contact libpulse directly!00:35
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sixwheeledbeasterr are we talking OMP here?00:45
DocScrutinizer05there are some wiki pages about that00:49
DocScrutinizer05not that you could say fremantle audio policies are particularly intuitive or versatile or just sane00:50
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HtheBis there anyone from the UK? :P01:07
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HtheBsixwheeledbeast: sup01:08
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nox-on 4chan of all things01:25
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HtheBpedobear and stuf01:27
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jonwil~seen Doczzzzzscrutinizer0501:40
infoboti haven't seen 'doczzzzzscrutinizer05', jonwil01:40
jonwil~seen Docsrutinizer0501:40
infoboti haven't seen 'docsrutinizer05', jonwil01:40
jonwil~seen Docscrutinizer0501:40
infobotdocscrutinizer05 is currently on #openmoko #openmoko-cdevel. Has said a total of 882 messages. Is idling for 50m 26s, last said: 'not that you could say fremantle audio policies are particularly intuitive or versatile or just sane'.01:40
HtheB~seen DocScrutinizer0501:43
infobotdocscrutinizer05 is currently on #openmoko #openmoko-cdevel. Has said a total of 883 messages. Is idling for 2m 27s, last said: 'wut?'.01:43
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kerio~seen HtheB02:04
infoboththeb is currently on #maemo (1h 3m 4s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 20m 53s, last said: '~seen DocScrutinizer05 '.02:04
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HtheBDocScrutinizer05: is there ANY way to get lcd screens for the n950's?02:09
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liambeeblebroxHey, anyway I could contribute to porting Fremantle (Is anyone online?) for the Neo900?02:15
dos1liambeeblebrox: lots of different ways :)02:16
liambeeblebroxWell, where should I start looking?02:16
dos1in FPTF thread and linked threads from there02:17
liambeeblebroxYeah, I'm already there02:17
dos1right now we mostly need to document everything we can02:17
dos1especially regarding audio and gsm stack02:17
liambeeblebroxSpecific to maemo5?02:18
dos1there are some bits that will have to be replaced in neo90002:18
dos1and some stuff will need some compatibility wrappers around them02:18
liambeeblebroxBoth SoC's (N900 and Neo900) are ARM right?02:19
liambeeblebroxI can do compatibility sometimes02:19
liambeeblebroxAnyway so I should just look in the thread/'s for work?02:20
dos1right now it's all at "document all the stuff" stage02:20
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dos1if you have some similar hardware like openpandora you can hack on, then you can start pondering with some proof of concepts02:21
liambeeblebroxI don't02:21
dos1actual implementation of stuff will come later02:21
liambeeblebroxYeah cool02:21
DocScrutinizer05HtheB: nope02:21
liambeeblebroxI can't help (That much) with that anyway02:21
DocScrutinizer05except jonni iirc02:22
liambeeblebroxAnyway thanks!02:22
DocScrutinizer05hi dos102:22
DocScrutinizer05hi liambeeblebrox02:22
DocScrutinizer05liambeeblebrox: /join #maemo-ssu02:23
DocScrutinizer05watch jonwil and pali and freemangordon head away with already porting stuff, resp creating FOSS replacements02:24
DocScrutinizer05recently pali created a frankentree from mce diablo and mce harm sources (both public) and tried to synthesize a mce source that would work on fremantle02:26
DocScrutinizer05I think the guys already got quite a good part of it working02:26
dos1oh, yeah, that stuff is pretty important for it too, even if not neo900 specific02:26
DocScrutinizer05maybe even all of it, dunno02:26
liambeeblebroxWill do.02:26
dos1and they're doing amazing job at it02:26
liambeeblebroxSorry i'm fixing myself breakfast at the same time02:27
DocScrutinizer05there are other blobs that need to get tackled. urgently. like modem stuff02:27
DocScrutinizer05np, everybody should have breakfast (that's what the blame me every day for)02:27
liambeeblebroxModem stuff?02:28
DocScrutinizer05libisi, cmt_speech02:28
DocScrutinizer05has some analysis from jonwil about it02:29
DocScrutinizer05and some links to wiki pages02:29
DocScrutinizer05chanlogs of #maemo-ssu also have some chats about it (you can search on the chanlog site)02:30
DocScrutinizer05otherwise just ask02:30
DocScrutinizer05first of all: introduce yourself and state what's your domain of expertise, on
liambeeblebroxWhich is preferred to just ask, here?02:31
DocScrutinizer05the rest will come naturally02:31
DocScrutinizer05ask in #maemo-ssu02:32
DocScrutinizer05ask jonwil, freemangordon, pali, dos1, or me. Or just ask :-)02:32
liambeeblebroxSounds good.02:32
DocScrutinizer05this is a community effort, and like all community efforts nobody really takes care about doing proper documetation02:33
DocScrutinizer05not to mention task dispatching02:34
DocScrutinizer05thus: just ask :-D02:34
DocScrutinizer05(I'm trying to do a little bit of task dispatching or rather coordination, but that's more on a service&support level than on an authoritative one)02:35
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DocScrutinizer05right now jonwil is planning or already about to analyze libcmtspeech and tries to find out what functions like echo cancellation and noise suppression and whatnot we can isolate and identify in it02:37
DocScrutinizer05we have a pretty working mce binary we can build02:38
DocScrutinizer05we're analyzing CSD "stack" and libisi and try to figure what and how we can replace and where to plumb the new stuff to the old OS02:39
DocScrutinizer05somebody already picked up on dbus API analysis02:39
liambeeblebroxIs the hardware already done?02:40
DocScrutinizer05eventually I will have to look into bme again, and see what needs to get done to marry it with the GTA04 charging and battery management and power handling02:41
dos1no; ETA is about 6 months02:41
DocScrutinizer05nope, the hardware is existing in form of predecessor GTA0402:41
liambeeblebroxYeah I had a look at it02:41
liambeeblebroxSo the purpose is to 'essentially' port Maemo to the newer hardware02:42
DocScrutinizer05compare it to N900 schematics and you got an idea where we will hit the ground finally, with GTA04-NeoN board02:42
DocScrutinizer05yes, port fremantle to the silghtly different (than N900) Neo900 hardware02:43
DocScrutinizer05in a way so userland is 99.99% identical02:43
DocScrutinizer05(obviously that's a mission impossible, but nevertheless our goal)02:43
liambeeblebroxSo that existing code will run on it, yes?02:43
DocScrutinizer05all userland apps should run on Neo900 without any patching or even recompile02:44
DocScrutinizer05copy and execve02:44
DocScrutinizer05a few bits need rework, and that'S what the guys are doing right nnow02:45
liambeeblebroxWhat about "Harmattan"02:45
DocScrutinizer05like mce, bme, libcmtspeech/CSD/libisi,02:45
liambeeblebroxThats maemo6 yeah?02:45
DocScrutinizer05HARM is not related02:45
liambeeblebroxAnd yeah I have the list up02:46
DocScrutinizer05yeah "maemo" 602:46
liambeeblebroxIt's different?02:46
dos1going to sleep, good night02:46
DocScrutinizer05N810 Diablo been more similar to Fremantle than Fremantle is to HARM, though the latter 2 both are phones02:46
DocScrutinizer05night dos102:47
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DocScrutinizer05dos1 what did you do??? ;-P02:47
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liambeeblebroxgood effort02:48
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liambeeblebroxSo, maemo6 is radically different from maemo502:48
DocScrutinizer05netsplit I meant02:48
liambeeblebroxYeah I know02:48
DocScrutinizer05yep, HARM is quite different in several aspects to fremantle02:49
DocScrutinizer05we're not really interested in it, so far02:49
DocScrutinizer05it's infested by aegis02:49
liambeeblebroxBut the N9 ran it?02:49
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
DocScrutinizer05yep, N9 runs HARM02:49
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liambeeblebroxSo the goal is to port maemo5, freemantle to the newer hardware02:51
liambeeblebroxWhich is mostly lower level hardware stuff02:51
DocScrutinizer05port the OS, so the apps will just feel at home02:51
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DocScrutinizer05well, yeah, mostly lower level, since we are porting the OS API02:52
liambeeblebroxAnd thats it?02:53
DocScrutinizer05incl some middleware bits where the hw differs too much so we can't hide the differences in kernel hacks02:53
liambeeblebroxYeah yeah02:53
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DocScrutinizer05we haven't tackled the low-level kernel stuff yet, since the hw isn't even feature-frozen yet02:54
liambeeblebroxYeah, who's responsible for hardware?02:54
DocScrutinizer05and Nikolaus of GoldeliCo, who's never around here02:55
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DocScrutinizer05rally what?02:55
DocScrutinizer05really even02:55
DocScrutinizer05Really Nikolaus never around here? dunno for sure, who might, it's the internet you know ;-)02:56
liambeeblebroxNo, really you're doing the hardware02:56
DocScrutinizer05well, so far I'm trying to coordinate and evaluate stuff02:57
DocScrutinizer05Nikolaus will do the layout probably02:57
DocScrutinizer05today I sent a N900 to him for disassembling and checking "what's the deal"02:57
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DocScrutinizer05he built GTA04 (with marginal help from me), I once built GTA02 ;-)02:58
liambeeblebroxWhat does the GTA stand for?02:58
DocScrutinizer05actually nobody knows - FIC heritage02:59
DocScrutinizer05"General Telephony Appliance" or whatever02:59
liambeeblebroxHaha, yeah02:59
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liambeeblebroxWell, I'll be in touch I suppose03:06
DocScrutinizer0508:02.03rwhitbyGeneric Telephone Appliance03:06
DocScrutinizer0508:02.11josch|nsnrwhitby: for real?03:06
DocScrutinizer0508:02.19rwhitby(the chinese design that it started from)03:06
liambeeblebroxFair enough03:07
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liambeeblebroxI'll have to get my hands on an n90003:07
DocScrutinizer05well, a N900 for sure may help with development :-)03:09
liambeeblebroxWhat about target hardware?03:09
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DocScrutinizer05I'll try to find some GTA04, but basically we'll use N900 to emulate the Neo900, after all they are supposed to be very similar ;-)03:10
DocScrutinizer05the monster is modem03:11
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DocScrutinizer05I suggested to us a USB attached UMTS stick for emulation03:12
liambeeblebroxYeah well03:12
DocScrutinizer05which would have a nice "dual use"03:12
DocScrutinizer05for N900 users03:12
DocScrutinizer05for RE  of libcmtspeech we can interface to the original N900 modem for now, and see if it works with that. When it works, changing the hw interface is simple03:14
liambeeblebroxI need an n900 first...03:14
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DocScrutinizer05good used ones shall go for ~100 bucks03:15
DocScrutinizer05new in original package is still ~25003:15
DocScrutinizer05if you can find any03:15
liambeeblebroxSeems to be some coming from china03:16
DocScrutinizer05yeah, those HK are mostly crap, they claim 2new2 but actually are refurbished03:16
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: yeah, those HK are mostly crap, they claim "new" but actually are refurbished03:16
liambeeblebroxI'll keep an eye out, anyway03:17
DocScrutinizer05or this one :-P03:19
DocScrutinizer05OHLOL, item codition: used03:19
liambeeblebroxNot bad reviews03:22
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liambeeblebroxAnyway I must be off03:24
DocScrutinizer05liambeeblebrox: where's your postbox?03:24
liambeeblebroxActual, or online03:24
liambeeblebroxNSW Australia03:24
DocScrutinizer05oo Aussie03:25
liambeeblebroxYou can shoot me now if you want03:25
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DocScrutinizer05ooh, ships to: US03:25
liambeeblebroxLooks like I could contact the seller though03:26
DocScrutinizer05yours most likely is one of those crappy refurbished ones03:26
liambeeblebroxI'm not in the market to buy yet03:26
liambeeblebroxMaybe in a couple months03:27
DocScrutinizer05well, if you test that HK sellers, pelase report on your experience03:27
liambeeblebroxWill do.03:27
liambeeblebroxCould always use03:27
DocScrutinizer05you'll bite your own back for every month you missed to live with the best phone ever03:28
liambeeblebroxI'm currently under a pretty big workload, with limited funds03:28
liambeeblebroxUsed ali-baba and related shops?03:29
liambeeblebroxI had stuff ship from there this week03:30
liambeeblebroxSo we'll see how it goes03:30
liambeeblebroxGood thing about living down under, dedicated shipping lane straight to china03:31
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DocScrutinizer05might be worth it, after all refurbished may be ok, for that price03:38
DocScrutinizer05and they offer warranty03:38
liambeeblebroxWhat part of the world do you hail from?03:39
mashinahow about the new bundesfuhrerin?03:40
DocScrutinizer05fsck her03:40
liambeeblebroxMakes sense, I suppose america is asleep03:40
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liambeeblebroxWork to do03:40
mashinaim canadian eh03:41
liambeeblebroxeh eh eh eh eh03:41
mashinai live in a part with a funny timezone03:41
liambeeblebroxWhats local time?03:41
mashinacanada/atlantic is EST+103:41
liambeeblebroxIt's 104003:41
mashinacloser to europe but close to us too03:41
mashinaits 2141 yurop format03:42
liambeeblebroxI hope thats not AM doc03:42
mashina9:42p ours03:42
DocScrutinizer05sure AM03:42
liambeeblebroxUsed to using 24 hour time, mashina03:42
DocScrutinizer05but I'm living in JRTZV03:42
mashinaast is the short name03:42
liambeeblebroxThe internet needs a central time server :/03:43
infoboti guess ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
liambeeblebroxAh, but one that is used by all servers03:44
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liambeeblebroxHopefully be around03:45
liambeeblebroxAnd I'll put something in the dev thread03:45
liambeeblebroxhave a nice03:46
mashinai saw an n900 on the local classifieds once03:46
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DocScrutinizer05chillout time03:49
mashinawonder who the hell in this backwater would have one03:49
mashinawe're poor and mostly illiterate03:49
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Macerwth does app manager do where it takes a month for it to finish when you enable devel?12:02
psycho_oreosShould've used devel-light.12:03
Macerthere's a devel-light?? heh12:06
iloopsok so which browser do we have in meamo thats just the latest in terms of html5 standards12:06
iloopshave the latest webkit code been used anywhere (i'm assuming webkit is where the html tech goes)12:07
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kerioiloops: fennec 17?13:05
iloopsfennec is massively slow13:05
iloopsfor me its unuseable13:06
iloopsit wud be so awesome if it was fast but it isnt i dont know why13:06
psycho_oreosIf you think about it comparatively. fennec 17 seems to be the latest released program available for maemo. You said you want HTML5 support, so there you go.13:08
psycho_oreosIf you want fennec to be any faster, then you probably need to go into experimentation with having thumbs enabled fennec.13:09
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XATRIXCan you remind me where can i find wiki about how to turn off the automatic updates checking in maemo13:11
psycho_oreosYou can't turn off, you can prolong the need for whenever it checks for newer version.13:11
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XATRIXSeems like it check everytime i connect to any networks13:12
XATRIXIt's a bit complicated13:12
psycho_oreosThat said: (it took me a mere 1 minute of google search).13:13
XATRIXyea :( sorry13:14
iloopsand will the thumb enabling in fennec make it any closer to the performance of microb?13:15
iloopsor is it too much to ask13:15
psycho_oreosHahaha, the last time I checked, not even close, but you don't even know the underlying process. hildon I believe "pre-loads" certain programs so that it would not take a user to start thinking "such and such program is slow." Besides unlike fennec, microb was designed to effectively wrap around hildon (hence less resource usage).13:17
psycho_oreosfennec is also now un-maintained on maemo as well.13:18
XATRIXgconftool changes the config files or only for the runtime ?13:20
keriothe former13:20
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kerioand the latter, too13:20
iloopstrue :)13:20
kerioat least, i think that the program can ask to be notified whenever there's a change13:21
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XATRIXso, gconf changes config files or not ?13:29
psycho_oreosIt mainly changes the config file, a config file for which most hildon/osso programs references for various purposes.13:30
psycho_oreosIs it really that hard to read man pages?
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lizardoIs SSL certificate currently self-signed ?13:43
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: ping15:39
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DocScrutinizer05lizardo: iirc yes15:41
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: pong15:49
DocScrutinizer05hi! :-D15:49
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dos1hello :)15:50
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cehteh"....  Elop zum Verzicht zumindest auf einen Teil des insgesamt knapp 19 Millionen Euro schweren Verg├╝tungspakets zu bewegen. Dieser lehne das aber unter Hinweis auf ein Scheidungsverfahren ab, schrieb die Zeitung am Mittwoch."16:08
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DocScrutinizer05"sorry guys, divorce pending, I need every cent of those 19 mio"17:25
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DocScrutinizer05"you know, the hookers, and that other bitch"17:26
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sledgesin english:
sledgesno surprise about divorce, it's Elop!18:05
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thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: re scratchbox has warfare done the self-signed cert or do i need to mail it to him? Sorry was offline for nearly a week18:26
thedead1440also you want the sha sums of all blobs too right?18:27
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cyberthequeNeed advice / opinions on vpn selection for use over 3g. i have built ipsec (iskmp / ike) vpns for a long time over slow connections using old hardware and have been pleased with the throughput. I would appreciate observations about the overhead and performance in openvpn. my need is to stream video from the n900 over 3g -- performance is paramount.  ipsec or openvpn?19:23
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keriomh, does ipsec work with your operator?19:30
kerioi think that openvpn is cleaner and has less overhead19:31
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cyberthequedon't yet know if t-mobile's  unlimited voice/txt/web prepaid plan passes ESP/AH  or of it requires an upgrade (tablet services) --- for sake of discussion, assume it is not an issue20:23
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Palido you know if there is rtmp plugin for gstreamer in maemo extras (devel) repository?20:39
Paliis there for maemo?20:41
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DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: I dunno, probably the user wants sha sums for all blobs, yeah. For the cert ask warfare to create a self-signed one for you21:17
DocScrutinizer05he even will install it21:18
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ApicI upgraded kernel-power-bootimg and multiboot-kernel-power and now I get a Redscreen "can't flash kernel, required files not found" when selecting it during boot (selecting Stock Kernel still works)21:21
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Paliyou can read TMO thread that multiboot config file is not in kernel-power anymore and is not supported21:24
Paliuse uboot or hack multiboot21:24
ApicOh, okay.21:24
ApicWill Installing uboot-pr13 automagically wipe multiboot?21:26
Paliinstall uboot-flasher21:27
Paliand not, you need to uninstall multiboot first21:28
Palifreemangordon: in extras-devel are lot of old uboot packages21:29
Paliit is possible to delete them?21:29
ApicI guess I still have fremantle 1.2 as Base System and not 1.321:29
ApicAt least I cannot find uboot-flasher, only uboot-pr1321:30
Paliupdate to pr 1.3 first21:30
ApicHow? I think the Application Manager did not ask me to upgrade the whole Distro21:30
Palitry u-boot-flasher21:30
Palido not remember correct name21:30
ApicAh, that's there21:31
Apicapt-get dist-upgrade wants to remove a whole Bunch of Packages from the System...21:32
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ApicI tried changing the fremantle-1.2/ovi/ ./ to fremantle-1.3/ovi/ ./ but now I get GPG "KEYEXPIRED"21:36
Apic...on apt-get update21:36
ApicWhere can I leech a current Key?21:36
Palido not use dist-upgrade21:38
Palinokia key expired21:38
Paliand nokia/accenture refused to fix this problem21:39
Paliuse only HAM for updating21:39
Paliuse 1.2 for OVI21:39
Paliyou can change system date back to 201021:39
Paliand then update via HAM again21:40
Palialso you can check version in settings -- about product21:40
ApicMaemo 5, Version: 20.2010.36-221:41
Palithis is pr1.321:41
Palilast version is pr1.3.121:41
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Paliuse "date hack", enable nokia repos in HAM and update21:42
ApicHAM == Hildon Application Manager?21:43
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ApicAnd "Date Hack" is not an Application, but the Act of manually setting the Date to e.g. 2010-12-31?21:43
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ApicOk, thanks21:44
Paliand do not remember that HAM is slooooooow21:44
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lexikspam again:
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ApicApplication Manager does not find any Updates21:48
dos1Join Date: 25th Sep 201321:48
Paliclick on reload21:48
Palitry find updates again21:48
Paliand wait (5 min)21:49
Palialso make sure you have SSU repo enabled21:49
ApicStill no Updates21:49
ApicHm, the Throbber is still spinning21:50
ApicAnd I cannot enter the Repo Menu ATM21:50
Palithis means that HAM something doing21:50
ApicNow it finished21:51
ApicAnd it shows "Maemo 5", "Security Update"21:52
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ApicAnd "Documents To Go Installer", which I do not need21:52
Paliso you see it now21:52
ApicOk, now Product Info shows Version "21.2011.38-1"21:58
ApicNow change back the Date to the current one, eh?21:58
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Paliyes, change back22:02
Palilook also at CSSU stable for maemo updates22:04
ApicOk, thanks.22:07
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