IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2013-09-10

Wizzupbut exciting!00:00
ShapeshifterWhat kernel is it going to run? If I understood this correctly, it's supposed to run fremantle. Which is a bit of joke. The distro is ancient!00:02
Wizzupit will have a recent kernel.00:02
dos1Shapeshifter: it's supposed to run any free distro you want00:02
Wizzupperhaps read more and less sceptisism00:02
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dos1QtMoko, SHR, Debian - compatibility from day 0, as they already work on GTA0400:02
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ShapeshifterAha.00:03
dos1and there will be Fremantle port00:03
ShapeshifterI wonder if it could run sailfish00:03
dos1which I hope will bring some new life into replacing closed blobs effort00:04
dos1so in long run Fremantle will be able to get some modern, free grounds00:04
Shapeshifterjeez 700 euros is steep though.00:04
Shapeshifterbut I suppose it's fair in case it actually lives up.00:05
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dos1yeah, you can't go cheaper with such low production runs00:06
dos1we hope for something about 200-300 orders00:06
bennypr0fanemake an estimate: how long does it take for N900 (thumbed, not overclocked), to copy a total of 1650 mp3 files, total size: 12,5GB, from a normal-speed microSDcard to its flash memory?00:06
dos1if there will be more zeros at the end, it will be much cheaper ;)00:07
Wizzupbennypr0fane: the only real thing that matters is microsd card read speed and flash-memory write speed.00:08
bennypr0faneWizzup, what about ram?00:08
Wizzupwhy would it matter00:08
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wmaroneRAM won't help in that situation, Wizzup already noted the primary bottlenecks00:09
bennypr0fanebecause there'll be a lot of shovelling going on there, no?00:09
ShadowJKIn the default config: ages00:09
WizzupI would just leave the music on the microsd card, btw.00:09
WizzupSave both size and your expensive mmc00:09
bennypr0fanethe MicroSD is class 400:09
Wizzupyeah, they are fast enough to read from in mediaplayer00:09
Wizzupdon't waste mmc on it00:10
ShadowJKon my N900: less than 40 minutes00:10
bennypr0faneShadowJK, um, what?00:10
bennypr0faneno way00:10
Shapeshifterdos1: The GTA04 board looks very different from an N900 board. Who's designing the layout?00:11
dos1Shapeshifter: Golden Delicious, probably together with DocScrutinizer05 :P00:11
bennypr0faneactually, I wanted to transfer the files from one sdcard to another one I meant to put in N900, just using N900 as the computer for this operation00:11
quackquack1which gsm module?00:12
quackquack1and is the gsm stack open?00:12
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dos1quackquack1: Option, as mentioned in the post00:13
dos1used stack will probably be FSO (freesmartphone.org), as it already works nicely on GTA0400:13
dos1and it's free00:13
dos1as the name suggests ;)00:13
quackquack1cool00:13
bennypr0faneanyway, I started the operation around 4:30 before going to school. Now I'm back, it's a little 11:00, and it still ain't done (~1250 of 1650)00:14
quackquack1and chipset? i havent looked into the project.00:14
dos1for Fremantle port we'll have to RE dbus interfaces of currect maemos CSD, to implement some CSD-FSO bridge00:14
dos1~neo90000:14
infobotwell, neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9114200:14
bennypr0fane...and it just flunked out with an error00:14
dos1or http://neo900.org/00:14
quackquack1one moment00:15
bennypr0faneand here I was thinking It'd be done by the first break00:15
* quackquack1 gets ready to prebook00:16
quackquack1advance booking please. xD00:16
dos1buyers patience is adviced :)00:17
quackquack1okay00:17
* quackquack1 takes the chill pill00:17
quackquack1by the way can we write our own x-loader?00:18
dos1we'll probably go with some crowdfunding soon, to pay for prototypes00:18
quackquack1i mean i am planning to port coreboot to n900.00:18
quackquack1so if there is any need for porting coreboot to this device? count me in.00:18
dos1quackquack1: of course you can, bootloader is easily replacable00:19
quackquack1dos1, not the x-loader but coreboot from www.coreboot.org00:19
dos1stuff like that won't differ from GTA04, which except GPU acceleration and WiFi firmware is 100% free00:20
quackquack1afaik its non HS chipset00:21
quackquack1in GTA04 am i right?00:21
ShadowJKbennypr0fane; tested with 2 gigs of mp3s (dont have more free space), and it looks more like 60m for me00:21
ShadowJK(for 12.5g)00:21
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quackquack1if the BL1 (boot loader 1 st stage) is not encrypted then we can very well port coreboot as initial bootloader, dos100:22
dos1quackquack1: everything in GTA04 is unlocked, so I guess it's not HS - it would be pretty pointless :P00:22
quackquack1cool then00:22
quackquack1i will download the document and start working.00:23
Shapeshifterdos1: is there no free wifi chip out there?00:29
ShapeshifterI'm not surprised about the GPU00:29
dos1dunno. Maybe only that one was easily available in low volumes00:29
dos1maybe in Neo900 there will be some free one00:30
bennypr0faneShadowJK, turns it was actually less than 8GB, not done after 6 hours!00:30
dos1or not, we'll see00:30
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ShapeshifterI'm still very pessimistic.00:31
ShapeshifterWe'll see indeed.00:31
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dos1replacement for Nokia's hands video on boot for Neo900 - what do you think? :D00:50
dos1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iWEN70-UWs00:50
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zammywell dos1 shall we all move to openphoenux channel?01:01
dos1there's none; but well, it's going to be umbrella project for Maemo phone01:02
dos1I guess any Neo900 talk can stay here :P01:03
zammyLTE modem really?01:03
dos1yup, seems to be pretty possible :)01:03
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dos1probably there will be choice for either 3.5G or 4G modem01:06
dos1as Option GTM601 (3.5G) and GTM801 (4G) are pin-compatible01:07
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dos1so if you don't need 4G you can save few bucks on it01:07
zammyI am really happy then01:09
dos1please see the TMO thread and vote in the poll! :)01:10
dos1DocScrutinizer05: https://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=430 :)01:16
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DocScrutinizer05awesome, and the only answer is a spam for rolex replicas05:00
robbiethe1stOf course05:01
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DocScrutinizer05aah, comfirming pin compatibility and free choice of modem 3G or 4G for Neo900 customers05:02
DocScrutinizer05and aiui GDM609 also pin compatible. Not sure about API and thus AP GSM stack05:02
DocScrutinizer05maybe when you're interested in such a weird critter like the 609, you will be happier with a all new dialer anyway05:03
robbiethe1stYes. Make it as memory-effecient as possible, and lock it in memory05:05
DocScrutinizer05it is already locked in RAM ;-)05:06
robbiethe1stSo, only thing to do is make it smaller05:06
robbiethe1st(I mean, if you're going to re-write it anyway05:06
DocScrutinizer05whoever wants to tackle that, nobody will stop him05:06
DocScrutinizer05au contraure I will make sure that brave person is full aware  of where to download the datasheets for the 60905:07
DocScrutinizer05yay, 5500 thanks. not far to 555505:13
Win7Maccongrats Doc, saw my query?05:14
DocScrutinizer05err which one?05:20
* RST38h moos05:25
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DocScrutinizer51~botsnack10:30
infobotaw, gee, DocScrutinizer5110:30
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DocScrutinizer51~neo90010:43
infoboti heard neo900 is at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142, or at http://neo900.org/10:43
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thedead1440Macer: last i read, winrt doesn't have ad-hoc support hence it can't even connect to an ad-hoc network12:23
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DocScrutinizer51DrCode: backup restore wll do for you12:26
DocScrutinizer51it has a list of deb to download and install12:27
DocScrutinizer51DrCode: of course a BM backup would be best12:29
DocScrutinizer51~BM12:29
infobotit has been said that backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6397512:30
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DrCodethanku12:48
DrCodeI want to install backupmenu but the download link is broken12:48
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DocScrutinizer51BM should be in extras-devel repository13:09
DocScrutinizer51installable via appmanager aka HAM13:10
DrCodeDocScrutinizer05, how do I had extras-devl?13:16
DrCodeI am using ccsu13:17
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Pali~extras-devel13:28
infobothmm... extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel13:28
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mashinafinally got a data plan16:46
mashinassh and irc in the car!16:47
mashinathat sim tray is fiddly as hell16:47
Apic=)16:48
mashinaim passenger16:50
mashinano safety worries16:50
mashinabut yeah i accidentally snapped out the tray flap16:51
mashinaput it back in... no wonder people say that tray breaks16:51
DocScrutinizer06tzzz16:52
DocScrutinizer06we will look for one made from massive steel, for Neo90016:52
mashinalook at the nokia c3 for a good one, uses the exact same battery but nicer cover for sim - simpler16:53
DocScrutinizer06with a mugen cover, we might get it fitted16:53
mashinapretty good try for a $20 phone16:53
mashinamaybe gps will work a lot better16:54
mashinanow that agps can kick in16:54
DocScrutinizer06admittedly those things are clumsy16:54
mashinai'm not sure if i can do 3G, it tops at either 2.5 or 2G16:55
DocScrutinizer06change to supl.google.com16:55
jon_ythe Neo900 will be built with 250mm thich steel case16:55
jon_yenough to withstand a tank gun16:55
jon_y:)16:55
mashinaprob diff bands, I'm on rogers/at&t bands16:55
DocScrutinizer06fron russian tanks16:55
jon_ywell, WW2 era tanks anyway16:55
DocScrutinizer06we dived up steel in bikini atoll16:56
DocScrutinizer06there's a lot there16:56
jon_yhmm, radioactive steel16:56
mashinajonjon true winter war and 3310 heritage16:56
mashinastarting to get laggy16:56
mashina4bars with lag16:56
mashinabut im moving at like 80kph16:57
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DocScrutinizer063G and at&t don't work together well, I heard16:57
mashinayeah im on rogerds which is at&t bands up north16:58
jon_yGSM, in the USA?16:58
mashinacanada16:58
jon_yoh ok16:58
jon_yI remember my N900 keeps showing 2.5G in the US16:58
jon_ynot sure if I remembered wrongly16:58
DocScrutinizer06anyway, if problems with GPS: change supl server to supl.google.com16:58
mashinaits gsm our cdma carriers switched16:59
DocScrutinizer06and ask freemangordon about latest patches16:59
mashinai havent added cssu yet16:59
mashinaedge sucks lag wise17:00
mashinai can tolerate speed but lag i hate17:00
mashinabut like i said moving fast17:01
mashinaok i can see what looks like the cell tower from here17:01
mashinaonna disconnect my tmux17:02
mashinaalright parked now, laggy but not bunged up bad17:09
mashinassh -C should reduce usage to fit my 500MB cap17:09
mashinashould try tor maybe too17:10
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keriossh compression is a must, both for lag and for traffic usage17:33
kerioat least, for small amounts of data17:33
kerioif you can send a whole screenful in a single packet, you don't get that annoying jitter17:33
keriocome back next week for the next episode of "shit i learned about terminals when playing nethack"17:34
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mashinaheh17:40
mashinaon public wifi now17:40
mashinaquite a bit nicer lag wise17:40
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jonwilok, I have now identified what should be all the dbus interfaces we need to support in fsogsmd for Neo900 (either support them or take the things that are using them and rewrite/clone/replace them)18:31
jonwilso yeah that covers everything we need to replace in order to replace the cellular services daemon going forward :)18:31
jonwilWe have full documentation for /com/nokia/csd/gprs and  /com/nokia/phone/net18:33
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jonwilAnd we have what should hopefully be full dbus introspection details for  /com/nokia/csd/call,  /com/nokia/csd/info, /com/nokia/phone/sms and /com/nokia/csd/ss18:33
jonwilits only /com/nokia/phone/sim, /com/nokia/phone/sim/security and /com/nokia/phone/sim/phonebook where we dont have full details :)18:34
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DocScrutinizer05jonwil: that sounds awesome18:47
DocScrutinizer05phonebook is boring - and probbaly can get done way better than what we have now18:48
DocScrutinizer05sim/security is not much18:48
DocScrutinizer05sim is cloudy18:48
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid sim will hold a lot of surprises for us18:49
DocScrutinizer05niche cases you rather wouldn't even think of18:50
DocScrutinizer05I think we at least can ignore simlock ;-)18:50
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jonwilLet me see of the things that use com.nokia.phone.sim.* which bits they actually use18:56
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jonwilQuite a few of them only use phone.sim.* to get imsi/imei18:59
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jonwiloooh neat, csd-sim has some info on the methods it exposes after all, functions in that lib have names like m_Phone_Sim__authenticate_sim_card_ay19:17
jonwilso Phone_Sim is the interface19:18
jonwilauthenticate_sim_card is the method19:18
jonwiland ay is the args19:18
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dos11jonwil: nice!19:25
DocScrutinizer05:-D19:25
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RiDhey DocScrutinizer05!19:45
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jonwilso yeah in theory we can probably figure out the format (parameters, return type) of most of the dbus messages related to the cellular services daemon. Doesn't help us figure out what they do or what the values actually mean though :(19:51
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jonwilToo bad some anonymous Nokia person hasn't leaked libcscall-blah.tar.gz or libsim-blah.tar.gz or libsms-blah.tar.gz :P19:54
dos1all anonymous Nokia persons over here - we need your help!19:55
dos1cookies for docs, deal? :)19:57
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mike-hunhello.my n900's board is damaged,but found pcb board for sale without spare parts.does it worth to buy it or are there any phone recycling companies in the uk where can I buy a new board?20:12
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mike-hunthank you20:17
RiD?20:17
mike-hunwhat chances i have to get a new board?20:19
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wndnot again.. telepathy + gtalk fails with informative "network error".20:32
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Win7Mactmo down?20:47
dos1seems so20:47
thedead1440maintenance being carried out20:47
Win7Macwithout notice?20:48
RiDactually you had notice20:48
RiDafaik20:48
thedead1440i'm not sure of the notice too; just saw that a snapshot of talk was required hence the vm is frozzen..20:49
dos1k20:49
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thedead1440frozen*20:51
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sixwheeledbeastmaintenance was completed over the weekend AFAIK21:07
sixwheeledbeastdown for me too.21:07
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dos1vBulletin Message: TMO is on maintenance. We will be back soon.21:08
dos1got it few minutes ago, now it's down again21:09
dos1so I have no doubt there is mainternance going on right now :P21:09
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sixwheeledbeastseems all is back?21:24
Win7Maclooks gooood21:24
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dos1I just found some old Nokia 3410 case22:15
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dos1hmm... Neo3410 anyone? :D22:15
RiDdafaq22:15
dos1imagine that bragging abilities22:16
dos1"I have put Maemo to my 3410!"22:16
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RiDwell22:17
RiDthat's like saying you put a ferrari in a fiat22:17
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kerioput an abarth in a fiat :D22:35
sixwheeledbeast:)22:35
sixwheeledbeastTC130 engine in a panda :D22:36
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sixwheeledbeastgrr...pidgin22:56
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sledgesthere's a panda club, quite big in italy , ca 200bhp engines :)23:15
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sixwheeledbeast200? you wouldn't get that from the old "999 fire" engine. :)23:36
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