IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-09-08

DocScrutinizer05~pong pali00:00
infobotpali: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!00:00
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DocScrutinizer05my silly 5 minutes00:07
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PaliccxCZ: I pushed some patches to 0xFFFF repository, can you test if you still have segfault problems?00:58
PaliI'd like to release final version, but need to be sure that it working also on other than mine machine...00:59
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: :D02:00
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Macerfor the life of me i still don't understand these frequencies11:35
Macerif i wanted a phone to work on at least t-mobile 3G wouldn't it require the 1700 band?11:35
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cyberthequefor the chatlog record: ubifs module mismatch with zlib in stock sdk kernel 2.6.32-generic fixed by building custom kernel (not a pleasant process). ubifs now loads, and rootfs.jffs2 is now mounted using the ubiformat/ubiattach method described by 'pali' in the maemo forum.13:57
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: mh, i think i don't want my cloak anymore15:11
keriowould it be rude if i dropped it?15:11
keriothe server i'm using the bouncer on has rdns now, and an identd15:11
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DocScrutinizer05dropping cloaks isn't exactly easy. Best you /join #freenode and ask for it15:12
kerionah, it's easy15:12
kerioyou just have to /join #freenode and ask for it :)15:13
keriobut would it be rude?15:13
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DocScrutinizer05rude against whom?15:27
DocScrutinizer05is it rude that I stick with my openmoko cloak?15:28
DocScrutinizer05was it rude of stskeeps to drop his maemo cloak?15:28
DocScrutinizer05it's a cloak! basically a nothing15:29
dos1get "Maemo/is/a/piece/of/shit" cloak - that would be rude :)15:30
DocScrutinizer05dos1: what's with that URL? it stalls for me. Too lazy to do a whois15:31
dos1DocScrutinizer05: try again15:32
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: you're awesome! :-)15:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: congrats!15:34
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: nah, just made a quick copy of GTA04 page and edited a bit in few minutes ;)15:37
jonwilwhat URL is this>?15:37
dos1or if there's still webmail interface (dns propagation...),
jonwilnice :)15:38
infobotdos1 meant: or if there's still webmail interface (dns propagation...),
Sosicanice site, but I think we could need a new neo900 logo :)15:39
jonwilSo guys, any idea where I should focus any RE work I might end up doing?15:40
dos1jonwil: I'd vote for documenting CSD dbus interfaces15:41
dos1Sosica: is there some "old" neo900 logo I'm not aware of? :D15:41
jonwildocumenting CSD dbus interface sounds great except that reverse engineering unknown dbus interfaces is HARD :(15:41
Sosicano but it'd be nice to have a specific neo900 one next to the open phoenux logo15:42
dos1Sosica: agreed15:42
dos1there's still plenty of time of that. Hopefully someone will create something awesome :)15:42
dos1jonwil: I think we may do some "mixed" approach, at least at the beginning15:44
dos1start some work based on assumptions and guesses from dbus-monitor15:44
dos1with some excessive logging of any call made that might differ from what we think it should look like15:45
dos1then identify things that does not work reliably or were hard to guess, and just then RE bits that cause troubles15:46
dos1we could provide some automated scripts to collect interesting stuff from logs, make it working in at least some basic way on N900 and let bleeding-edge testers from community find a corner cases15:48
dos1it shouldn't be hard to make it working in some basic way based on dbus-monitor alone15:49
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dos1corner cases will be problematic, so we can try to find and RE just those parts15:49
dos1what do you think?15:49
jonwilI think a good place to start is this:15:50
jonwil1.Identify the target (cellular services daemon and its plugins)15:50
jonwil2.Identify all the libs used in the process15:50
jonwil3.Reverse engineer each lib/plugin/etc and make a list of files, directories, gconf keys, dbus things and related items that are used15:51
jonwil4.From that list, identify which things are already documented15:52
jonwil5.Then for the undocumented stuff, identify (via a grep of the n900 filesystem) which binaries (if any) make those dbus calls15:52
jonwil6.From there you can decide whether those binaries should be replaced or whether they need to be re-used as-is15:52
dos1right. I was talking only about replacing dbus API15:53
dos1good point with 5, from quick look at csd-gprs it seems to me that some of the calls shouldn't be used on N900 at all15:54
dos1BTW: yay! just won an auction for broken Nokia 5800 ($9 with shipping included)! so I'll have a charger for N900 battery :D15:54
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dos1so hopefully I'll be able to start first experiments soon ;)15:55
jonwili.e. figure out for each undocumented item whether it needs to be documented (because something that we cant replace needs it) or whether it doesn't need to be documented (because the things that use it are things that are open source, are things we dont need on Neo900 or are things where writing something new that does the same job is easier than trying to make the existing widget work)15:55
entitledI got a separate charger to do that15:55
entitledever since the USB got fuxored :(15:56
dos1entitled: for $9? ;)15:56
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jonwilfor example, it might be easier to write a new widget from scratch to display the cellular status/bars using whatever interface exists in ofono/fsogsmd rather than reverse engineering the dbus calls the stock widget is using15:56
entitledless than that15:56
dos1och :o15:56
entitledit's just an adapter, where a wall charger goes15:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: we even have an identd15:58
kerioso good15:58
dos1but mine comes with battery too ;D15:58
entitledyeah, it's a good deal15:59
entitledSpare usb port arrived, hoping to fix the phone itself15:59
entitledtried resoldering the old one, no dice16:00
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dos1jonwil: reimplementing it basing just on names from and checking if it works should be easier too16:01
dos1if it works, we're lucky; if it doesn't, then RE/rewrite16:02
dos1and by reimplementing, I mean mocking16:02
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dos1writing a dumb mock, which will just return some data given to it via config, or even hardcoded16:03
dos1and checking how maemo UI will react to it16:03
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dos1it might be that some parts of CSD API will have to remain mocked, because there will be no direct relation from it to the features new modem will offer16:06
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jonwilyes that makes sense dos1:16:27
jonwilFYI, that website that file is mine :)16:27
jonwilwell the file is Nokias but I put it there :)16:27
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dos1jonwil: you mean that n900 photo?16:29
dos1xml file16:30
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dos1thanks a lot, having those files in one place is going to be really helpful16:32
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jonwil is what I wrote to provide all the known details of the n900 dbus linked back to the files on that other website16:38
dos1jonwil: yup, seen that, just didn't know it was you. Huge thanks! :)16:38
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janembaI have an issue with the n900 I set up my own mail server and it works fine. So I set my server to the server and I get no message. So I'd like  to debug it but I don't know where to find the log for the mail client. Do you know where to look ?17:04
WizzupI'd start with your server logs.17:08
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janembaWizzup: I have nothing im my server logs so I think  I have an issue with the mail client17:08
Wizzupso it doesn't work fine.17:08
WizzupYou should be able to see any IMAP request17:09
Wizzupeven just simple logins17:09
Wizzupwhat about smtp logs17:09
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janembaI'm testing it I j'm just tested imaps17:11
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janembaI can't send over smtps because mailbox reception not appears17:12
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janembain fact my imaps directories not appears so I don't know if the mail client made the reauest. I check the settings many times and this thunderbird it is ok but with n900 mail client it failed17:30
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DocScrutinizer05I think CSSU has a bugfixed modest, that avoids some problems seen with IMAP in stock modest mail client. I never looked into it in detail, so you better ask the CSSU guys about it17:39
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DocScrutinizer05  search for "modest"17:41
infobotfrom memory, cssu is
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janembaok thx17:45
Wizzupinfobot: from memory even?17:45
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: ;)17:49
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dos1just found on twitter while searching for some Neo900 mentions: "Elop to become MS CEO. After 2 years: Google to buy MS. The end." :D18:00
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kerioso, my parents bought an ipad18:26
kerioit's neat!18:26
keriokinda heavy though18:26
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jogaI get the impression ipad ain't very rugged either18:38
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spaak makes you wonder about maemo18:39
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DocScrutinizer05Werner Almesberger \o/18:40
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: you should replace the N900 photo by one that shows the hw kbd slide open18:41
DocScrutinizer05dos1: beware of (C)-infringements!18:41
DocScrutinizer05might get pretty expensive18:41
dos1DocScrutinizer05: I know, this one is temporary18:41
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: there will me more content and more images anyway, this one was just quickly put together ;)18:46
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keriojoga: mh, i don't know if it's actually true or if it's just a ruse to sell you covers and cases18:47
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: I hope there's someone in the community that'll be able to make professional-looking photos on white background and release on some CC license18:49
dos1we'll need stuff like that18:49
jogakerio, I dunno I've heard of people cracking them with a small drop etc18:50
jogathey don't like to talk about such things though because they're oh so gorgeous ;P18:51
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DocScrutinizer05Alu shell? :-o19:04
dos1DocScrutinizer05: have you seen that alu case? imagine it with engraved "Neo900" and OpenPhoenux logo on back case ^^19:04
dos1early photo:
dos1ouch, wait, it's in article19:05
DocScrutinizer05won't fly. All aerials (aka antennae) will be borked and detuned to oblivion19:05
dos1DocScrutinizer05: looking at thread (especially last pages) it seems like Estel is ready to take care of that19:06
DocScrutinizer05heh, you can't take care of that. It's physically impossible to use the same antennae with a case that massively changed its RF properties like that19:10
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kerioi'd like a fractal antenna19:12
ApicThat receives exactly itself?19:12
ApicProbably our Multiverse is exactly _that_. ;-)19:13
keriothey're actually a thing19:16
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NIN101 some spam on TMO. by a guy who joined 2012...21:06
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lexikspam again?
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dos1Join Date: 08-08-1221:13
lexikfrack, they have a plan!21:16
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warfare (for those who haven't noticed)21:28
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DocScrutinizer05[general notice] and are going down for service21:34
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: lexik: NIN101: indeed21:35
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: you can't ban and delete those?21:35
DocScrutinizer05once-click doesn't work for the 90-day limit, but I'd hope you can "manually" ban as spambot and delete the one post this account ever posted21:36
dos1thread is already deleted21:37
DocScrutinizer05I know, I did it ;-)21:38
dos1ok, that would explain it :)21:38
DocScrutinizer05I just wondered why thedead1440 reported it and not deleted it21:38
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bennypr0fanehello, if I wanna put CSSU Thumb and kp52 on a fresh install of Maemo, which should I install first?21:44
bennypr0fane1.) After reflashing, I tried to restore a backup with CSSU enabler, which failed to install. 2.) Before that reflash, the N900 went black after I had installed kp52 on CSSU Thumb so I must have gotten something wrong21:47
lexiki'm not sure, but in my opinion (and in opinion of my N900) it doesn't matter. What i did was that I have firstly instaled kp and after that the CSSU-thumb, and i have no problems. (But don't listen me, i'm just regular N900-geeky-user)21:48
DocScrutinizer05seems installation of cssu-thumb pulls in a matching kernel automatically. But if it doesn't, you're screwed since system prone to segfault when running thumb binaries on a kernel without thumb patch21:50
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DocScrutinizer05restoration of a backup never restores the kernel. You alwas need to tale care to install the matching kernel first, before you restore any backup21:51
DocScrutinizer05same basically applies to CSSU21:52
DocScrutinizer05cssu-thumb instructions should deal with all that. You can't reatore CSSU(-thumb) backup to a freshly flashed "clean" system. You need to upgrade the system to same "patchlevel" you had when doing the backup21:53
DocScrutinizer05for BM matters are a tad different, but not much21:54
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*** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "**www and wiki/bugs service downtime!** | Welcome to #maemo | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | Please see | | Source: | Chanlog: | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future"22:10
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DocScrutinizer05dos1: mention kbd slide!!22:12
dos1DocScrutinizer05: I'm replacing current temporary photo with different temporary photo as we speak :D22:12
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DocScrutinizer05nevertheless mention it in tmo post, please!22:13
DocScrutinizer05people willing to help should know what to do22:13
bennypr0faneDocScrutinizer05, what is BM?22:13
infobotrumour has it, backupmenu is
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bennypr0fanesoltys, best is to go CSSU htumb first, then kp52?22:14
bennypr0fanenot soltys, sorry. I was gonna type just "so"22:14
dos1DocScrutinizer05: done22:15
bennypr0fanebut that sequence is what went wrong before the last reflash22:15
bennypr0faneany idea why installing kp52 would sabotage bootability?22:16
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DocScrutinizer05it usually shouldn't22:20
DocScrutinizer05but no, you should install kernel _first_22:21
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DocScrutinizer05flash, install kernel, install CSSU, install CSSU-thumb22:22
DocScrutinizer05then restore backup22:22
DocScrutinizer05but make a new BM backup before restoring anything, so you can roll back the restore in case it breaks sth22:22
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* lexik is going to take some profesional-looking photos of N900 for you :) dos1 ^^; feel free to do some more pictures of it - mine usb is broken, so the "usb side" photo is waiting for you.22:35
dos1lexik: great! :)22:35
dos1just read PM too22:35
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lexikbut i need sunlight, so i must wait :P I wish I could do it now :D22:38
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dos1no prob, it's not that urgent :)22:39
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dos1lexik: try to get something like
sixwheeledbeastm.o up, that was quick :)22:47
dos1but don't worry, I'll take care of openphoenux and Neo900 logos ;)22:47
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warfare... aand we're back.22:49
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lexikdos1: okey... that reminds me, maybe we will need Neo900 logo?22:53
dos1we'll probably need some, yes22:53
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lexikNeo900 logo competition?22:54
dos1sounds good22:55
lexikthe winner will get discount of $50 for the Neo900 :D22:57
qwazixI know you asked for a white background, but I had those photos23:04
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jogaooh sexy23:13
jogaa bit dim tho :p23:13
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qwazixfeel free to browse the parent folder too, more pics there23:13
dos1qwazix: thanks :)23:13
dos1I think we should make some kind of photo repo23:13
dos1with photos we can use for sure without any copyright infridgement23:13
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qwazixbtw, I don't know if editing out the nokia logo and n900 logo is a good idea, those ebay cases come with that23:13
qwazixon the other hand, shipping a product with another company's brand might be problematic23:13
jogamy n900 is a bit roughed up and cushioned with some rubber thingies, it's not very pretty :(23:13
dos1qwazix: yeah, that's the thing we'll probably have to solve somehow23:13
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qwazixjoga, I'm proud to say that the one in the photo is my regular N900 which I use every day, without a case :) now it has one or two scratches though and a bit of wear on the D key, sadly23:14
dos1it's still very long time till any working device comes to daylight, so I think no one will be upset about Neo900 logo being edited on the photo ;)23:15
dos1it would be great if GolDeliCo would come up with some easy way to remove that Nokia branding and replace it with our :D23:17
qwazixhammer? :P23:18
dos1if they won't, I'll print some sticker for myself :P23:18
qwazixI doubt any sticker will remain there for long...23:18
bennypr0faneDocScrutinizer05, but installing CSSU Thumb will pull a customized kernel right? In that case wouldn't it be useless to install kp before CSSU thumb?23:19
qwazixOne solution would be some kind of black paste to fill the recessed nokia logo, and stick an openphoenux logo somewhere else23:19
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dos1qwazix: then lots of spare stickers ;]23:20
qwazixand with the microsoft deal being finalized till then, things are looking even more grim, I'd say mill the logo down23:21
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DocScrutinizer05will do23:21
DocScrutinizer05bat cover more trouble23:22
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qwazixooh yeah... I had forgotten that, I got a sticker over it :P23:22
DocScrutinizer05dos1: check my edited photo of qwazix23:22
DocScrutinizer05removed color23:23
DocScrutinizer05also in the reflections in n900 case23:23
DocScrutinizer05but I think it's from wrong side23:24
DocScrutinizer05you have to place such photo on left side of scree23:24
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, thanks! looks good23:25
DocScrutinizer05gimp is awesome23:26
qwazixbtw, what are you thinking about usb port? proper OTG requires a rectangular aperture is that a problem?23:26
qwazixindeed it is23:26
DocScrutinizer05minor problem, we have to revork the cases slightly23:27
qwazixand I hope the GTA04 doesn't have a bupbat :)23:28
DocScrutinizer05takes 10s with a dremel with right milling tool23:28
DocScrutinizer05sure it has a bupbat err bupcap23:28
qwazixbig difference23:28
DocScrutinizer05I was able to catch this one early23:29
DocScrutinizer05hah, it's raining so hard the fireworks are cnacelled23:29
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DocScrutinizer05I'm happy I decided not to move there, just to find myself wet and alone at that place, with no fireworks taking place23:30
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dos1I'll collect photos there :)23:34
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qwazixfireworks look good! but I don't understand a word :)23:35
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DocScrutinizer05all the way down it says "abschluss feuerwerk 22:15"23:36
DocScrutinizer05but I guess their bomb guns would drown in water ;-D23:38
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DocScrutinizer05the bombs are paper balls diameter up to 30cm, and at the lowest point they ahve the propellant gunpower attached. Now when the gun tube wills with rain water, the propellant might get wet, and the bomb hardly makes it out of the tube before it bursts ;-P23:40
qwazixdoesn't sound very exciting23:41
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DocScrutinizer05indeed figure the bomb not climbing to 100m altitude before bursting, but rather go parabolic into the watching crowds23:43
qwazixindeed ouch!23:44
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