IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2013-09-02

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Sicelohmm, don't know if 'm the only one with this.. but Nokia Maps seems  to now pick the longest possible routes :(11:15
Siceloit was perfect all along, finding shortest routes on the first go, even better than Google Maps11:15
Sicelobut now, now, to travel from Johannesburg, South Africa to Mbabane, Swaziland, Maps tells me to go through Botswana! wtf11:17
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Sicelobut now, now, to travel from Johannesburg, South Africa to Mbabane, Swaziland, Maps tells me to go through Botswana! wtf12:03
Siceloaw.. sorry for repeat..12:04
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divVerentthe extras assistant... why does it not ask me for the source file?13:17
divVerentit asks me for debian.tar.gz and dsc, after uploading the .changes file13:17
divVerentbut it does not ask for the orig.tar.gz13:17
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freemangordondivVerent: it decides on what to ask for based on your .dsc13:37
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divVerentfreemangordon: the .dsc mentions the .orig.tar.gz13:38
divVerentdput did it right13:38
freemangordondivVerent: sorry, based on .changes, but lemme check once again, just to be sure13:39
divVerent.changes lists it too13:39
divVerentand yes, probably based on .changes, as that is uploaded first13:39
freemangordondivVerent: maybe .orig.tar.gz is already there?13:39
divVerenthm... I would wonder why13:39
divVerentgiven the package got released only days ago13:40
divVerentand Maemo didn't have it at all before13:40
freemangordondivVerent: which package is that?13:40
freemangordonor rather, may I look at .changes/.dsc?13:40
divVerentcan you still see them on the build server?13:41
divVerentif not, I can upload separately13:41
freemangordonhmm, "Build succeeded"13:41
divVerentI used dput13:41
divVerentafter the web interface looked like it would fail when I would do it13:41
divVerentdue to not asking me for the orig file13:41
divVerentanother thing... is there a way to send Alt-F8 in the terminal?13:45
divVerentor ESC F813:45
divVerentesc esc 8 doesn't do13:46
divVerentESC ESC [ 19 ~ seems to be the sequence13:47
divVerenthehe, typing that whole monster works ;) but is barely practicable13:47
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divVerentof course, not REALLY needed, I can change clex's config to not need that :P14:10
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lexikfreemangordon: yes! after a few modifications, i have successfully packaged FANN library with dpkg-buildpackage, now, there are two files: the .deb package,a and .tar.gz one, to the extras-devel i must upload the .tar.gz?14:23
Iridoshm, are there any things I have to think of, ordering a new usb-charger for the N900?14:23
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lexikalso there is an .dsc and .changes file, where to put them?14:25
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vi___Very exciting!14:40
vi___DocScrutinizer51: good afternoon.14:40
vi___DocScrutinizer51: Is there an N900 BOM?14:40
vi___Or indeed any note of the footprint of the white camera LEDs?14:44
vi___Or possibly what the forward voltage of those LEDs are or perhaps the current supplied when thy flash?14:46
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ccxCZ << do we have this?15:21
ccxCZor better yet some "hold modifier to right-click" configuration15:22
ccxCZthere's supposedly some "mouseemu" script that's supposed to be able to do that, but it's website is down15:24
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vi___ccxCZ: Yes there is hold to right click.15:59
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ccxCZis that on by default? can I change the delay?16:01
vi___ccxCZ: read the second half of this wiki entry:16:01
vi___The above is keyboard modifier.16:01
vi___I did not read your question close enough.16:02
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ccxCZI'd be really grateful to have mod-click so I can play few mouse-driven games via dosbox. it has keyboard remapper by itself but can't do a thing about mouse apparently16:03
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DocScrutinizer05vi___: check the cam driver, it has comments about current16:50
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DocScrutinizer05I am rather sure current been 300mA, max 0.5seconds. voltage prolly 5..6Vmaybe 816:52
DocScrutinizer05max continuous current 50mA iirc16:53
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vi___DocScrutinizer05: That sounds plausible.  The 2 LEDs are in series.16:58
vi___300mA for 500mS.16:58
vi___That is plenty meat.16:59
vi___FYI they are a 2.15*1.65mm footprint.16:59
vi___ccxCZ: The article I linked talks about mapping a keyboard modifier to middle and right click.17:00
vi___AFAIK some users use that method to play dosbox games.17:00
vi___The 8v Vf sounds plausible that is.17:01
vi___by 8, I of course meant 6.17:02
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freemangordonvi___: hi, long time no see17:09
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DocScrutinizer05vi___: maybe it been 200mA, and maybe 0.7s or 0.4s17:16
DocScrutinizer05check cam driver source!17:17
DocScrutinizer05or even the fine wiki17:19
DocScrutinizer05  RTFM!17:21
DocScrutinizer05>>It can flash brightly for a maximum of 0.5 s, with an LED current of no more than 320 mA, or be in torch mode for arbitrary duration, at a current of no more than 50 mA<<17:21
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vi___DocScrutinizer05: Ty doc17:35
vi___freemangordon: hello FMG.17:35
vi___Yeah, I got a new job.17:36
DocScrutinizer05yw, but pretty please check wiki! :-D17:36
vi___I am now mega busy.17:36
vi___Not much time for messing with technology.17:36
DocScrutinizer05vi___: thanks for support on Neo90017:36
vi___If it is as good as the idea seems, I am all in!17:36
vi___I really think you should look into things like kickstarter etc.17:37
DocScrutinizer05we could need every help we can get, for fremantle porting task force17:37
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: we could use every help we can get, for fremantle porting task force17:37
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vi__oops, irssi had a fit!17:39
vi__I am using irssi on a windos box.17:40
vi__I accidentally pressed ctrl+z17:40
DocScrutinizer05ooh, windows term. I'm not familiar with those ;-P17:40
vi__The whole thing spazzed out.17:40
vi__I assume ctrl+z is left over from th 'nix version.17:41
DocScrutinizer05btw 8V Vf is more likely than 6V17:41
vi__4V Vf for each LED?17:41
vi__That seems quite high.17:41
DocScrutinizer05yup, usual for blue end white LED of high power17:41
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: yup, usual for blue and white LED of high power17:41
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DocScrutinizer05see nichia and osram 1W 3W 5W LEDs17:42
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vi__LED like the cree XML have a Vf of ~3.1V at 1.5A17:42
DocScrutinizer05and cree of course17:42
DocScrutinizer05check again, iirc that's not true for blue and white17:43
vi__I will.17:43
DocScrutinizer05well, they differ a lot between types17:43
DocScrutinizer05obviously those are 1W LEDs in N90017:44
vi__Yes, just 4V is probably the highest I have seen.  I could not find a part number for the N900 flash LEDs though.17:44
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ShadowJKI've seen 4.5V Vf on a crappy chinaled18:05
ShadowJKCree has LEDs with Vf around 2.7V @ 350mA, iirc18:06
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: there probably is no part number / name of those LED available18:42
DocScrutinizer05vi__: all I have is:18:44
DocScrutinizer05Main PCB, Top   User Interface   Optical Semiconductor   LED   2         Primary Camera Flash - High Intensity White         2         2.15   1.65   0.8018:44
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DocScrutinizer05and this looks pretty much like a crippled original Nokia BOM that got leaked to those guys who did the RE18:50
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DocScrutinizer05it's best I could find18:55
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: "Typical forward voltage @ 1.4 A (V), 85°C:   37.0"  ;-P18:59
DocScrutinizer05 Components and Modules/HB/Data Sheets/CLM1CWKW(879)  "TYPICAL ELECTRICAL & OPTICAL CHARACTERISTICS (TA = 25°C)"  "Vf typ: 3.2V max:4.0V"19:03
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DocScrutinizer05 Components and Modules/HB/Data Sheets/CLA1A(1075)   typ:3.6V max:4.2V19:07
DocScrutinizer05all no high power LEDs which tend to have even higher Vf usually, afaik19:08
DocScrutinizer05generally 1W LEDs seem to average at 2.3V for red and orange, 3.5V for green blue and white19:11
DocScrutinizer05very interesting:  with a binning/rank of 4=3.3V Vf  to 10=4.0V Vf19:21
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Apicgoldkatze: *caress*19:27
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DocScrutinizer05also interesting (I didn't know of it yet): >> In particular, if a reverse voltage is continuously applied to the product, such operation can cause migration resulting in LED damage <<19:30
* DocScrutinizer05 winks to all OC-fanboys who seem to think EM is a hoax19:31
ShadowJKlookup Cree XP-G and XR-E too19:33 seems to no longer provide info for those19:38
DocScrutinizer05 Components and Modules/XLamp/Data and Binning/XLampXPG.pdf19:39
DocScrutinizer05Vf 3.25V19:39
DocScrutinizer05anyway in the end who cares about Vf? It's mandatory to operate those LEDs by a constant current source19:42
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DocScrutinizer05XR-E Vf (white >5000° (!!))  3.7V19:54
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bennypr0fanehello, I'd like to install kernel power 52, but the version I find in HAM is 51r1, (have extras-devel enabled)21:11
bennypr0fanedoes anyone know where I would find 52?21:14
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DocScrutinizer05allegedly KP52 got promoted to extras-devel, for all I know21:20
infobotpkg is probably
Wulfeit did21:22
Wulfethere is a forums posting on it at least saying so21:22
Wulfeidk some blogger21:24
Wulfebut he sourced it right off so i know he is accurate21:25
bennypr0fanethen why do I see only 51r1 in HAM?21:28
bennypr0faneis there another way to install it?21:28
Wulfeapt-get "kernel-power-flasher"21:29
DocScrutinizer05honestly I don't know. Seems something is flawed. Please ask Pali and freemangordon and merlin1991 to investigate what's wrong, and them fix it ASAP21:29
freemangordonbennypr0fane: check your distribution. Also make sure you did refresh21:30
DocScrutinizer05you're supposed to see KP52 in HAM, definitely21:30
merlin1991it's definitely in extras21:31
Wulfeyeah i am looking at it in the repo now, it is there. something wrong on his end.21:31
DocScrutinizer05apt-cache policy21:32
bennypr0fanefreemangordon I'm on thumb 8.221:33
DocScrutinizer05oooh, and could somebody fix apt-cache to show full repo URL pretty please!? KTNX21:33
freemangordonshouldn't matter21:33
freemangordonbennypr0fane: as long as you haev maemo-extras repo enabled21:33
freemangordonbennypr0fane: in HAM, click on the menu and selct "Refresh"21:34
freemangordonselect even21:34
bennypr0faneok, done21:34
DocScrutinizer05disable extras-devel21:34
Wulfeand make sure you are not using multiboot21:34
freemangordonthat fast?21:34
Wulfeuse u-boot instead21:34
bennypr0fanei.e. "done"21:34
Wulfeit will break with multiboot21:35
bennypr0faneas done is after hitting a button in HAM...21:35
DocScrutinizer05everything breaks with multiboot ;-P21:35
freemangordonbennypr0fane: HAM refreshed the catalogues in 10 seconds?!?21:35
bennypr0faneno multiboot21:35
infobotrumour has it, maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED21:35
bennypr0fanejust reflashed, acutally after corrupted fs21:36
DocScrutinizer05disbale extras-devel (and extras-testing)21:36
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: wait ;)21:37
DocScrutinizer05KP52 is in extras aiui21:37
DocScrutinizer05ok, scratch that21:37
* freemangordon hates that shit21:37
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: though I wonder...21:37
DocScrutinizer05me not:
freemangordonaccording to the logs on stage, this SHOULD be in 1.2 and 1.3 repos21:37
freemangordonbut not here
bennypr0faneDoc well I don't get it. it's in devel, right?21:38
freemangordonbennypr0fane: check your maemo-extras distribution21:38
DocScrutinizer05FSCK DAMN fremantle-1.3!!!!21:38
freemangordonit should be fremantle, not fremantle-1.321:38
bennypr0faneI have 1.321:38
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I think it is about time to fix that shit21:39
DocScrutinizer05there *is* *no* fremantle-1.321:39
bennypr0fanein all the extras repos, or just stable?21:39
freemangordonall of them21:39
DocScrutinizer05fremantle-1.3 is actually fremantle, plain vamilla fremantle without fancy extensions21:39
* bennypr0fane is missing the tab button on n900 in xchat21:40
DocScrutinizer05for nick expansion? use shift-space21:40
infobotjrxchat is probably
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bennypr0faneDocScrutinizer05, ha, awesome21:41
bennypr0fanejrxchat is not xchat?21:41
lexiki'm trying to upload my package but: "Upload error, no repository selected!" ?21:43
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freemangordonlexik: select repository :P21:43
freemangordonfremantle, diablo,...21:43
lexikfreemangordon: :P... i did that.. twice21:44
lexiktwice times the same error21:44
freemangordonlexik: obviously she doesn;t like you :P21:44
freemangordonlexik: what browser?21:45
freemangordonlexik: have mozilla aound?21:47
bennypr0faneit's kinda like my backspace key is broken21:47
lexiki will try it with it21:48
lexikthats really weird.. extras assistant is looking absolutely differently in firefox than in chromium :D21:51
lexiknicer :D21:51
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freemangordonlexik: besides looking nicer, does it work?21:54
bennypr0fanei can move the cursor in ham, but not deleting21:54
lexik... nope.21:55
lexikthe same error21:55
lexikis is caused by browser?21:55
freemangordonlexik: hmm, weird21:55
freemangordonNFC, never seen such an error21:55
lexiki can try chrome :/21:56
bennypr0faneah, it works for devel and testing, but not can't delete that 1.3 from fremantle21:56
freemangordonbennypr0fane: wait a bit21:57
bennypr0faneyou mean before Itry to delete 1.3? I waited for more than 5 mins. moving the cursor worled in that time21:59
bennypr0fane*and also worked21:59
freemangordonbennypr0fane: wait for me to fix the repo :D21:59
bennypr0fanebut devel and testing are already good?22:01
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Tekkmoare there offline maps for america somewhere? i did a bit of searching and could only find europe and india22:08
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* DocScrutinizer05 starting public technical discussion / hearing, about the fremantle-1.3 issue22:30
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DocScrutinizer05assumption: fremantle-1.3 repo been invented for whatever reasons during times of PR1.2, to be "safe for future" as a symlink to fremantle repo, and during migration#1/consolidation some funny guy "mirrored" the repo and converted the symlink to a separate unlinked repository dir during the process22:32
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: actually the real repos are different, but got synced from one and the same source. IIUC22:34
DocScrutinizer05my first suggestion been to simply nuke the complete fremantle-1.3 repo, since it's redundant and cruft and serves no particular purpose. But I've been told that flashing gets you fremantle-1.3 repo instead of fremantle repo22:35
DocScrutinizer05now while this is a brainfart done by somebody in nokia, if it's correct, we now have to deal with it22:36
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: again, IMO, simply symlinking 1.3 to fremantle on stage will solve that next time a package enters extras. And I will push autobuildertest in extras to make that happen22:37
freemangordonwe'll still have lots of wasted HD space, but at least stuff will work22:37
DocScrutinizer05further implication: during (or after) consolidation some of the builder/repomanagement scripts obviously got messed up, so now we have dependencies to fremantle-1.3 even in those scripts22:37
DocScrutinizer05where from does the wasted HD space come, wehn we effectively nuke freamntle-1.3 and replace it by a symlink?22:38
DocScrutinizer05what I anticipate is a mega disaster by repo-management running over the same rapo two times22:40
DocScrutinizer05repo even22:40
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: we'll do that on stage, but not on live22:41
DocScrutinizer05what is live?22:41
freemangordon"/var/repository/live", this is what you see when you open for example22:42
DocScrutinizer05so what is stage?22:42
DocScrutinizer05and actually, who would want to open fremantle-1.2?22:42
DocScrutinizer05could you come up with a better not so fringe case example please?22:43
freemangordonautobuilder puts the packages in incoming, queue manager puts the on stage "/var/repository/stage" and copies stage to live22:43
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freemangordonNFCm but that is how it works22:44
DocScrutinizer05we don't need to rsync from one dir to another dir on same physical and even logical machine, eh?22:44
freemangordonI guess this is a legacy from the times there were lots of "live" servers22:44
freemangordonand those were different machines22:45
DocScrutinizer05so first of all we need to nuke that cruft22:45
freemangordonI guess we don;t need to rsync, but that would mean a major rewrite IMO22:45
DocScrutinizer05if it's actually nothing else but just an rsync22:45
freemangordonAnd I'd rather have it working as it is supposed to work before I "fix" it :)22:46
DocScrutinizer05rewrite? I think we can simply retire the whole process step22:46
freemangordonor no, I am not sure what will happen while packages.gz etc are being rebuilt22:47
DocScrutinizer05ok, actually irrelevant. Why do we keep fremantle-1.3 on live?22:48
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: but see, the first to do is to fix that 1.3 crap22:48
DocScrutinizer05fremantle-1.3 has to go, for good22:49
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freemangordonbecause of the reflash. but ask gregoa or someone who knows repos better than me what will happen if you have the same packages.gz for different distributions22:49
DocScrutinizer05then after we eradicated it, we will eventually create a convenience-symlink for those poor users who got fremantle-1.3 in their list of catalogs22:49
freemangordonI have NFC if distribution is included in .gz file22:50
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DocScrutinizer05see: [2013-09-02 21:32:52] <DocScrutinizer05> assumption: fremantle-1.3 repo been invented for whatever reasons during times of PR1.2, to be "safe for future" as a symlink to fremantle repo, and during migration#1/consolidation some funny guy "mirrored" the repo and converted the symlink to a separate unlinked repository dir during the process22:50
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: there are 2 "repos", one is "stage" the other is "live"22:51
freemangordon^^^ happened on "stage" iiuc22:51
DocScrutinizer05verify that assumption, then act accordingly. When it got introduced during consolidation, we can as well nuke it now22:51
freemangordonthe only way to verify it is to mv fremantle-1.3 from stage and to symlink fremantle-1.3->fremantle. But won;t do it now, I run out of time22:52
DocScrutinizer05or, in other words: if it been a symlink before consolidation then there can't be any problems in making it a symlink again, now22:53
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: sure22:53
freemangordonactually there are problems now it is not a symlink :)22:53
dos1I dunno how it works here, but in SHR we're rsyncing from staging dir to "production" exactly for that reason with rebuilding package lists22:53
freemangordondos1: :nod:22:53
freemangordonmy point exactly22:54
dos1and if something breaks during builds, repo is left intact and safe22:54
DocScrutinizer05fair point22:54
DocScrutinizer05but a rsync would keep symlinks as symlinks, no?22:55
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: so please, discuss with someone who knows how repos work, to explain if it is possible to have different distributions using one and the same packages.gz file22:55
dos1it would, but AFAIR only if you use it with proper options22:55
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I guess no, maybe it depends on how is rsync called. and maybe it was hardlink, not symlink22:56
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm afk now for some RL urgent stuff. I think somebody else has to pick up on where I leave here and now22:56
freemangordonguys, gtg, night, will continue tomorrow22:56
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DocScrutinizer05I can't take care of every single BS char in any single script22:57
DocScrutinizer05there are guys much more experiencend than I am, with repositories22:57
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DocScrutinizer05I don't see the benefit and I don't see any free schedule in my calendar, to manage fremantle-1.3 sanitizing22:58
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DocScrutinizer05ther are ~45 guys around here who are better qualified to sort this issue22:58
DocScrutinizer05if it doesn't get sorted soon, I eventually will simply nuke fremantle-1.3 and wait for the impact22:59
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DocScrutinizer05meanwhile you could start with checking what in Packages.gz and signature of a repo might be hardlinked to the repo's name (fremantle vs fremantle-1.3)23:02
xeshi DocScrutinizer05... does my repo comparison sorted something?23:03
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DocScrutinizer05I didn't use it for anything yet, but I hope others will do, soon.23:04
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DocScrutinizer05you're free to post the link to those files here23:05
DocScrutinizer05so everybody willing to help can access them23:05
DocScrutinizer05please keep this running without me pushing and coordinating it23:05
DocScrutinizer05I cannot do this23:05
DocScrutinizer05it would require too much learning about repository management that i'm not an expert, and I have no time to do this, my plate is already filled.23:07
DocScrutinizer05so, it's up to the community now to investigate and fix this issue, before in maybe 2 weeks we are forced to simply nuke fremantle-1.3 and nothing been done to mitigate the fallout23:08
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DocScrutinizer05if you can dig up any historical info why and when fremantle-1.3 got invented, by whom, and based on which rationale, etc. - please by all means speak up here23:10
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xesfreemangordon: have you seen my repo comparison?23:26
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freemangordonxes: no. don't have time now, GF needs my attention :)23:30
Apicgoldkatze: wb23:30
xesfreemangkrdon: NMI ...not masquerable interrupt :)23:31
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DocScrutinizer05Apic: YOLD 3149? ddate?23:36
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DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> ddate23:40
DocScrutinizer05Today is Setting Orange, the 26th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 317923:40
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dos1DocScrutinizer05: just googled neo900. We've already got few mentions in Slashdot comments under Elop-as-possible-MS-CEO article and some comments/posts in russian, czech and french forums; facebook post from italian fanpage of N900 owners, few tweets etc.23:47
dos1"for this price I can get shiny quad-core phone" theme appeares quite often, but it was easy to predict; there are also some enthusiastic voices (at least that they seem to be enthisiastic via google translate :D)23:49
dos1there are some fears coming from ex-Freerunner owners who weren't happy with it23:50
DocScrutinizer05at this price you can even get a hooker for 4 weeks to 2 years, in some countries23:50
dos1or s/owners/users/23:50
DocScrutinizer05or find somebody to shoot you down23:51
DocScrutinizer05I think Neo900 better compared to a hooker than to a quad-core phone23:51
DocScrutinizer05since it neither is a phone, nor has it quad or dual cores23:52
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dos1let's build better neo900... with hookers! and blackjack!23:53
LjL-Alpson the other hand, it has a keyboard that can slide in and out, it's only so slightly resistive to touch, and its back is magnetic23:53
LjL-Alpssounds like hookers to me23:53
DocScrutinizer05so for 700EUR you also get: a very nice x86 PC; a full week of booze from morning till whatever time you fail to open your eyes; a gun; a 20kg bag full of really exciting surplus electronics; a case for your iPhone;... meh, gets boring23:54
Wizzupand mips?23:56
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DocScrutinizer05on a sidenote, today we first time see >10% of voters for >=70023:57
WizzupI like paprika mips23:57
DocScrutinizer05and we got a rate of ~10% / week for 700-sweetspot23:57
dos1looks pretty optimistic too me23:59
dos1gathering 200 orders for 700+ will still take some time, but it seems to be doable from those results23:59

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