IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-08-28

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MohammadAG	A month into android mod development made me miss the days of maemo	00:11
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RiD	MohammadAG what did you do	00:22
MohammadAG	A lot of stuff	00:22
RiD	i do a lot of stuff too	00:22
MohammadAG	But I hit a brick wall that reminded me of maemo's awesome devs	00:23
MohammadAG	The likes of DocScrutinizer05 and jacekowski	00:23
DocScrutinizer05	HUH?	00:23
DocScrutinizer05	hi moh	00:23
RiD	welcome back	00:24
MohammadAG	I feel like the Android community doesnt have one single qualified engineer	00:24
RiD	i salute you	00:24
MohammadAG	Hi DocScrutinizer05	00:24
MohammadAG	RiD heard of Xposed?	00:24
RiD	i am a qualified engineer, though only in my mind	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: see	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142	00:24
RiD	oh yeah, i heard it sucks	00:24
RiD	joke, i just googled it and i'm reading the xda topic	00:24
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders how a brick wall can remind MohammadAG about him		00:25
DocScrutinizer05	I know i'm stubborn, but....	00:25
RiD	sounds interesting	00:25
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 I remember you mentioned eMMC hardware locks once	00:25
MohammadAG	RiD it is, android modding only got interesting after it	00:26
RiD	my tablet doesnt have much support anyways	00:26
MohammadAG	Its like the only sane project related to mods on android	00:26
MohammadAG	Much support for what?	00:26
MohammadAG	The framework runs on any 4.0.3+ device	00:27
RiD	well, there's obviously more roms and tweaks and etc for a nexus device	00:27
MohammadAG	Thats where you come in	00:27
RiD	eh me?	00:27
MohammadAG	Yeah you	00:27
RiD	what did i do	00:28
RiD	i'm innocent	00:28
MohammadAG	You make the mods	00:28
RiD	HAH good grief	00:28
RiD	though i'd love to have a go at the theming	00:28
MohammadAG	The S4 had no mods besides one	00:28
MohammadAG	I kind of made 5-8 mods	00:28
MohammadAG	One of which I'm very proud of	00:29
RiD	i'm checking your profile now	00:29
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RiD	http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/myXposedModules	00:29
RiD	what's the one you are proud of?	00:30
RiD	sorry i mean very proud*	00:30
MohammadAG	https://github.com/MohammadAG/Xposed-SView-Poweramp/blob/master/src/com/mohammadag/sviewpowerampmetadata/SViewPowerampMetadata.java	00:30
RiD	woah, that cover	00:31
MohammadAG	Disclaimer: I didn't know java when I started on Android	00:31
RiD	sounds really cool, any pic of it running?	00:31
DocScrutinizer05	SViewPowerampMetadata?	00:31
RiD	nvm i found one	00:31
MohammadAG	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tt0pG40d1w&feature=youtube_gdata_player	00:32
* DocScrutinizer05 unknots his tongue		00:32
MohammadAG	Unlisted videos	00:32
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MohammadAG	Err video, till I get a proper camera	00:32
RiD	don't you have your N900?	00:32
MohammadAG	I do, but no tripod for that	00:32
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RiD	there's no need for a tripod	00:32
RiD	i know black magic	00:33
MohammadAG	There is when you're making a promotional video for google play :p	00:33
RiD	get a glass table and put the phone lying on it, with camera open	00:33
MohammadAG	Reviewers on Android eat you alive	00:33
RiD	(yeah, that glass better be transparent)	00:33
RiD	i know right.. they rate apps 1 star because something doesn't work when it's their own fault	00:33
MohammadAG	Yeah	00:34
RiD	and i'm stuck with brazillian reviews (damn you localization, i'm portuguese)	00:34
MohammadAG	Someone rated my app 3 stars and said "I haven't used this yet"	00:34
MohammadAG	That kind of annoyed me a bit too much	00:34
RiD	they're not exactly the brightest reviewers. "too slow on my insert horribly slow phone"	00:34
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MohammadAG	That's why I supoort 4.0+	00:35
RiD	oh yeah, death to anything below 4.0	00:35
MohammadAG	Indeed	00:35
RiD	amazing how it even survived	00:35
MohammadAG	Whats more amazing is how android succeeded before 4.0	00:35
RiD	crap... google play knows what music i like	00:35
RiD	i didnt download a single thing, but "Popular with Crystal Method listeners", how the hell does google know i like the crystal method	00:36
MohammadAG	Tbh at this point, I'm expecting Google Now to tell me when it's time to take a shit	00:36
RiD	yes, that's what i mean MohammadAG	00:36
RiD	it recommended me a fluke album... i have it already	00:36
ShadowJK	popular with crystal meth	00:36
RiD	NO	00:36
RiD	method!	00:36
RiD	google play forgot the "The" though	00:36
MohammadAG	o/ ShadowJK	00:36
kerio	crystal meth is a lot more popular than the crystal method	00:36
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RiD	i'll just sit in a corner and cry	00:37
ShadowJK	hallo	00:37
LjL-Alps	booo my N900 seems to have developed a stuck green pixel	00:37
kerio	LjL-Alps: toggle it	00:37
kerio	toggle it like fuck	00:37
LjL-Alps	during using SHR, doubt it can cause that though	00:37
MohammadAG	RiD done any play store apps?	00:37
RiD	MohammadAG you got some fancy clean icons on your apps! ++	00:37
LjL-Alps	kerio: is there something handy to achieve taht?	00:37
kerio	idk if there's something	00:37
kerio	check the repos	00:37
RiD	nah i'm not a developer	00:37
Sicelo	LjL-Alps: able to access SIM or modem in your SHR install?	00:38
MohammadAG	RiD that's cause I suck at designing so I use clipart from ADT :P	00:38
RiD	i guess the only thing i could do is themes	00:38
RiD	and i'm actually tempted to do one	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	LjL-Alps: that#s most likely a bad bit in video RAM	00:38
MohammadAG	with xposed?	00:38
RiD	i've seen some that aren't exactly good looking (not wanting to offend creators) yet they sell quite well	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	only thing that could _cause_ it is OC	00:38
MohammadAG	Tbh I only consider two apps successful	00:38
LjL-Alps	Sicelo, i'm afraid i haven't gotten there yet (SIM isn't in the phone). i've spent the past hours reinstalling it several times, sometimes -core sometimes -staging	00:39
MohammadAG	My usb mass storage app at 75k downloads and the file beam one	00:39
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: whoops. i do overclock to 850... no idea what sort of clock SHR uses, though	00:39
RiD	speaking of that usb mass storage app	00:39
MohammadAG	100 points for nokia for making the N9 support Android's protocol	00:39
RiD	its compatible with my tablet yet my tablet already supports it natively	00:39
DocScrutinizer05	SHR doesn't use clocks I think	00:39
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 so, remember the ro mmc lock?	00:39
DocScrutinizer05	it most likely will run the device as recommended	00:40
MohammadAG	RiD Samsung?	00:40
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: i see	00:40
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: not really, only for NAND	00:40
RiD	Galaxy Tab 10.1, 3G. (GT-P7500)	00:40
RiD	so i guess the wi-fi only (7510) can also install it	00:40
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 same thing?	00:40
DocScrutinizer05	well, kinda	00:40
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MohammadAG	The hardware enforces a lock set somewherr by kernel or bootloader	00:40
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kerio	anyway, i still can't wifi in my home	00:40
DocScrutinizer05	on NAND there is such thing like write-protect bits	00:40
MohammadAG	And only a power cycle allows an unlock	00:41
DocScrutinizer05	for NAND erase pages usually	00:41
MohammadAG	RiD it should support most samsung devices that arent nexii :)	00:41
DocScrutinizer05	on N9 it seems NAND has even read lock	00:41
MohammadAG	If you have a flash try adjustable torch	00:41
DocScrutinizer05	and allegedly the locks can't get reset	00:41
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 I think my S4 has that too	00:41
RiD	yeah but the tablet already natively supports it, so there's no need	00:41
RiD	oh wait no	00:42
DocScrutinizer05	which SoC?	00:42
MohammadAG	Its like I asked for aegis's cousin	00:42
RiD	i've been misreading it all time	00:42
RiD	i'm dumb, sorry	00:42
MohammadAG	ARM's TrustZone	00:42
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 exynos	00:42
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	00:42
RiD	But still, makes no sense. Galaxy Tab 10.1 does not support microSD	00:42
RiD	i'm nagging you	00:42
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MohammadAG	Exynos 5140 I think	00:42
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: neo900 feature request: aegis	00:43
MohammadAG	RiD whaa?	00:43
DocScrutinizer05	I dunno exynos by heart but when it's trustzone then yes, likely same shit as in N9	00:43
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 worse	00:43
DocScrutinizer05	~shoot kerio	00:43
* infobot shoots kerio in the foot with a glue gun!		00:43
RiD	"this will not work with your internal memory due to hardware and software limitations."	00:43
MohammadAG	There's this thing in android called screen mirroring	00:43
kerio	we will never attract developers without strong drm capabilities!	00:43
MohammadAG	It uses miracast	00:43
RiD	but on the tablet, there's nothing but internal memory	00:43
RiD	see what i mean?	00:43
* RiD runs		00:43
MohammadAG	Samsung decided to make their own implementation	00:43
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MohammadAG	RiD then /sdcard is a separate partition :)	00:43
MohammadAG	Their implementation uses HDCP	00:44
RiD	owat	00:44
RiD	then i guess i could use that :O	00:44
RiD	im gonna try it right now	00:44
RiD	i hate MTP to its heart	00:44
RiD	horrible piece of bleep	00:44
MohammadAG	Oh wait wait wait	00:44
DocScrutinizer05	~kill kerio	00:44
MohammadAG	RiD	00:44
* infobot shoots a inverse anti-quark gun at kerio		00:44
RiD	DiR	00:44
MohammadAG	I thought you said it worked	00:44
RiD	nonono	00:44
RiD	i'll try it anyways	00:44
MohammadAG	It wont work unless your /sdcard is a separate partition	00:45
RiD	if it doesnt work i'll give you 1 star don't worry	00:45
RiD	uhehueuheuhehu	00:45
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MohammadAG	So DocScrutinizer05, their libhdcp2.so tries to open TrustZone, and fails if you have ever flashed the device with any other kernel	00:45
kerio	neat	00:45
kerio	so you lose screen mirroring permanently?	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	niiiiice	00:45
MohammadAG	RiD :@	00:45
kerio	sweet	00:46
RiD	1 star, and review will say: i haven't even opened it yet	00:46
kerio	what's the big deal though? can't you just add a fake trustzone?	00:46
MohammadAG	kerio well, on the Note 2 for example, you can reset the flash count and go back to stock so it works again	00:46
RiD	anyways, what happened to your 900?	00:46
MohammadAG	And here's what reminded of DocScrutinizer05	00:46
MohammadAG	On the S4, the partition that stores the flash count has write protection on the hardware level	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	my famous statement "aegis is a spawn of hell" ?	00:47
MohammadAG	And what sets the write protect flag	00:47
MohammadAG	Samsung's very own NOLO	00:47
MohammadAG	Their own signed bootloader	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	sure	00:47
kerio	but samsung is so open	00:47
kerio	android is so open	00:47
kerio	it's linux, and linux is free	00:48
DocScrutinizer05	LOL	00:48
MohammadAG	The only way to reset this write protection is to cut off power to the eMMC	00:48
MohammadAG	Idk if thats even possible	00:48
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MohammadAG	kerio stock aosp is open :p	00:48
teotwaki_	MohammadAG: sup	00:48
DocScrutinizer05	ooohwait, SD cards are S because they have some shit added that's not found in MMC	00:48
kerio	anything is possible with a steady hand and a soldering gun	00:48
RiD	Secure	00:48
MohammadAG	Samsung was awesome up until the S2	00:49
MohammadAG	Then they gave into money and appleism	00:49
teotwaki_	The Note2 is pretty awesome	00:49
kerio	they suck at being apple, though	00:49
MohammadAG	teotwaki_ heyy	00:49
kerio	hell, even apple sucks at being apple lately	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	I never heard of anything using the "Secure" in SD	00:49
MohammadAG	Nothing much, just stabbing myself at how I bought a 100 buck adapter for nothing	00:49
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: windows phone used the "secure" in SD	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	but it might well be what you're running into here	00:49
kerio	and everyone went crazy because nobody had any idea of what was going on	00:49
MohammadAG	kerio apple still allows you to do the stuff you always did while jailbroken	00:50
RiD	ok going to try it now	00:50
RiD	get ready for 1 star	00:50
MohammadAG	teotwaki_ it is	00:50
RiD	"doesn't work it requires cable"	00:50
MohammadAG	I regret trading it for the S4	00:50
kerio	which application is this?	00:50
DocScrutinizer05	huh?	00:50
MohammadAG	RiD I swear I'll be under your bed if I get that 1 star	00:50
kerio	MohammadAG's	00:50
DocScrutinizer05	oooh hi teotwaki_	00:51
RiD	S3C Gadget not available in your kernel! Application disabled	00:51
RiD	sorry, that's 1 star from me	00:51
teotwaki_	I suffer brain overload	00:51
MohammadAG	But there's hope, there's a leaked engineering bootloader that doesnt set the write protect flag	00:51
teotwaki_	I've dumped half the haproxy and whole nginx documentations in my head	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	lol	00:52
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kerio	RiD: "instructions unclear, penis stuck in SIM slot"	00:52
RiD	what XD	00:52
kerio	teotwaki_: is there any reason why there's no good, non-russian documentation for nginx anywhere?	00:52
RiD	that has got to be small	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	teotwaki_: seen latest madness?	00:53
kerio	RiD: nope, that's why it got stuck	00:53
teotwaki_	DocScrutinizer05: nope?	00:53
DocScrutinizer05	Neo900	00:53
kerio	:D	00:53
RiD	i reviewed it	00:53
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142	00:53
teotwaki_	kerio: source code is the best documentation.	00:53
kerio	oic	00:53
RiD	you got a little bit more of the star now	00:53
MohammadAG	Btw about that	00:54
MohammadAG	How are you planning to get funding?	00:54
kerio	RiD: link to the review	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: unclear yet, we might start a fundraiser	00:54
teotwaki_	DocScrutinizer05: funky	00:55
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: let's call it the ubuntu neo900	00:55
kerio	and run a kickstarter	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	for now we want to see if any chances for this thing to fly	00:55
MohammadAG	Awww thanks RiD	00:55
teotwaki_	DocScrutinizer05: dual core or not?	00:55
MohammadAG	kerio the edgy 9000	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	********************************* take a few of these stars	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	teotwaki_: DM3730	00:55
* kerio grabs ***		00:55
RiD	its not the truth	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	teotwaki_: not aimed at high end bleeding edge but at N900 compatibility	00:56
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MohammadAG	How's the sailfish device going	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	shrug	00:57
teotwaki_	price range? (ballpark)	00:57
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 ask Ballmer for funding	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	700	00:57
teotwaki_	700?	00:57
MohammadAG	Yens I hope :p	00:57
teotwaki_	I do realise that you don't have economy of scale and stuff	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	sure, we're not Samsung, we can't get the prices they get	00:57
MohammadAG	Samsung doesnt get prices	00:58
teotwaki_	but the original n900 went for 200euro less	00:58
MohammadAG	They make their own cpu	00:58
MohammadAG	Their own memory	00:58
RiD	ew i should change my google+ icon	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	s/prices/offers/	00:58
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: sure, we're not Samsung, we can't get the offers they get	00:58
MohammadAG	Their own display	00:58
MohammadAG	The camera's a Sony though	00:58
kerio	let's make our own cpu, memory and display!	00:59
kerio	that's cheap right	00:59
RiD	oh right	00:59
teotwaki_	DocScrutinizer05: good luck. Hope it works out.	00:59
RiD	i know how google knows what music i like... duh	00:59
RiD	youtube... duh	00:59
DocScrutinizer05	we'll see	00:59
kerio	teotwaki_: will you buy like 50 of those?	00:59
MohammadAG	Nokia's marketing is getting better btw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vR4LeL0yzE&feature=youtube_gdata_player	00:59
teotwaki_	kerio: the Neo900?	00:59
kerio	yeah	00:59
teotwaki_	kerio: doubt I'll buy even one, honestly.	01:00
MohammadAG	They kind of dissed every other manufacturer	01:00
kerio	:(	01:00
teotwaki_	my n900 still works well	01:00
RiD	ok i thank google already	01:00
RiD	it helped me find an awesome artist	01:00
kerio	yeah but the neo900 is going to be actually viable	01:00
kerio	like, it will have ram	01:00
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RiD	and it'll work	01:00
teotwaki_	1GB of RAM?	01:00
RiD	woah i fell in love with celldweller already	01:01
kerio	32gb of ram!	01:01
DocScrutinizer05	OMAP3 has hard limit at 512MB	01:01
MohammadAG	I still like how a stock N900 multitasks better than a stock S3	01:01
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: really? :o	01:01
kerio	so we can't get to 1gb?	01:01
DocScrutinizer05	nope	01:01
MohammadAG	256mb on n900 vs 1gb on s3	01:01
kerio	that sucks	01:01
RiD	MohammadAG you have not yet answered my question (or i didn't read it), do you still own a n900	01:01
kerio	can we get some really, really fast swap?	01:01
RiD	also, some s3 have 2gb	01:01
RiD	depends on the variant you get	01:01
MohammadAG	RiD yes	01:01
RiD	nice, is it all broken	01:02
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: maybe	01:02
teotwaki_	Weird	01:02
teotwaki_	I guess Moore's law doesn't apply to Harmattan	01:02
MohammadAG	Nope, still in good condition	01:02
teotwaki_	2009: 256MB RAM. 2014: 512MB RAM.	01:02
MohammadAG	RiD 9505 yes	01:02
MohammadAG	Err 9305	01:02
RiD	teotwaki harmattan?	01:03
RiD	that'd be 1GB	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	teotwaki_: I doubt any OMAP3 will get sold in 2014	01:03
MohammadAG	Meanwhile, fast forward to september 4th	01:03
MohammadAG	Samsung will unveil the new Note 3 with 3GBs of RAM	01:03
RiD	do you still use your n900?	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	TI will start to roll out omap5 in 2014	01:03
MohammadAG	And it'll still lag	01:03
RiD	Note 4 will have 4 GB	01:03
RiD	Note 5 will have... 5	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	or they already did	01:03
MohammadAG	RiD not much tbh	01:03
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RiD	i understand, i guess you prefer to browse the web on your s3	01:04
RiD	by a far margin	01:04
MohammadAG	When it comes to actual usage I still use my N9 a lot	01:04
MohammadAG	RiD S4	01:04
teotwaki_	I use a Wiko...	01:04
RiD	oh s4	01:04
MohammadAG	The S3 was an abomination	01:04
RiD	how so?	01:04
MohammadAG	Slow as fuck	01:04
RiD	dafuq	01:04
RiD	slow?	01:04
MohammadAG	Yes	01:04
teotwaki_	1GB of RAM, dual core 1Ghz CPU, 5inch screen... 200euros.	01:04
MohammadAG	1GB of ram wasnt enough	01:04
MohammadAG	At startup you'd have about 200mbs of free ram	01:05
DocScrutinizer05	now what?	01:05
MohammadAG	Plus 200 reserved for hardware	01:05
RiD	ah touchwiz	01:05
MohammadAG	So you get 600+ /800 used	01:05
MohammadAG	The 200 are reserved by kernel	01:05
MohammadAG	With the S4 they did the same mistake, albeit its not that bad here	01:05
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MohammadAG	It should've had 3GBs so it doesn't lock up when it finds my eyes	01:06
RiD	haha	01:06
MohammadAG	Tbh, I think my next device will be a Sony	01:06
RiD	they have been sounding quite interesting lately	01:06
MohammadAG	a friend of mine got an xperia Z	01:07
RiD	and they're not ugly as hell unlike samsung	01:07
MohammadAG	Its really awesome	01:07
teotwaki_	then new version, 1.2 Ghz quad core, 1GB of RAM, 5" screen... 205 euros...	01:07
RiD	white samsung s3 looks like some kids toy	01:07
MohammadAG	Much faster than the S4	01:07
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teotwaki_	http://fr.wikomobile.com/mobile.php?t=41&telephone-portable=WIKO-STAIRWAY	01:08
RiD	ça va ça va	01:09
teotwaki_	the whole company switched to wiko	01:10
RiD	wiggly wiko	01:10
teotwaki_	RiD: you bore me. Your brain seems wiggly.	01:11
RiD	it is	01:11
Hurrian	MohammadAG: the waterproofing is nice.	01:12
MohammadAG	Hurrian everything about it is nice	01:16
MohammadAG	I'd trade my S4 for one any day	01:16
MohammadAG	Or the rumored Z1	01:16
Hurrian	MohammadAG: only complaint is the non-removable battery but meh	01:16
MohammadAG	The only time I remove my battery is when thr phone gets stuck or too hot	01:17
MohammadAG	I have an external portable charger	01:17
Hurrian	I'm waiting for the Honami.	01:17
MohammadAG	I'm considering it	01:18
MohammadAG	Although the S4 was a setback in terms of cash	01:18
jon_y	how do you replace non-removable battery?	01:18
Hurrian	been due for an upgrade now, and get the Z1	01:18
jon_y	hmm, nvm	01:18
jon_y	sorry, I was thinking about the neo900	01:19
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RiD	what would you do if the phone gets stuck but you cant take the battery out	01:22
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jon_y	hopefully you can hard reset by holding down a button somewhere?	01:24
RiD	what if you can't	01:25
RiD	WHAT IF	01:25
RiD	THE MATRIX WAS REAL	01:25
jon_y	hmm, how does that work if it is all glass?	01:25
RiD	captcha "hold your horses" well that's new	01:26
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Win7Mac	DocScrutinizer05: for a sample N900 for the Neo900, here's a device donation: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1369897#post1369897	01:44
DocScrutinizer05	handled	01:49
DocScrutinizer05	thanks	01:49
Win7Mac	;)	01:49
RiD	he should have had donated to me	01:54
Win7Mac	regarding community donations to HiFo for this project: sure, why not. My concerns were: where does it start, where does it end? We might be able to fund the prototypes, but are those donations meant for that?	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	GolDeliCo won't accept donations from HiFo for the prototypes, I guess	01:56
Win7Mac	re yesterdays discussion...	01:57
DocScrutinizer05	when any community member wants to donate to Neo900, we will come up with a way to donate directly to the involved guys	01:57
Win7Mac	buy one and pay it from HiFo donations	01:57
DocScrutinizer05	that's a different thing	01:58
Win7Mac	right	01:58
DocScrutinizer05	we're maemo community, we basically 'own' the N900	01:58
Win7Mac	i really love this	01:59
DocScrutinizer05	Nokia used to hand out devices to devels	01:59
DocScrutinizer05	always been duty of council	01:59
DocScrutinizer05	GeneralAntilles send several to me :-)	01:59
Win7Mac	oh, BTW, there's no real place for a council in an e.V....	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	except when you say so in your vereins-statuten	02:00
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Win7Mac	that's why I wonder about different voting rights for active members and "irregular" ones in the webpad	02:01
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Win7Mac	what would you like to see in that regard?	02:02
DocScrutinizer05	I'd think that's pretty hard to tell, since it's about voting in Verein (Vorstand etc), _not_ for voting for council that won't change (ever)	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	02:03
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Win7Mac	so no official status for council in the e.V.?	02:04
DocScrutinizer05	maybe for a e.V that really only manages the cash for community resp council, it's sane to say that only a very limited number of members can vote	02:04
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Win7Mac	counilors would have same voting rights as every "irregular member" (community with 3-month-account, dropped karma	02:05
DocScrutinizer05	official status of council in e.V is "council represents the intentions of community which the e.V. is handling the cash for"	02:05
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DocScrutinizer05	I don't think council should have more power than other regular full members of e.V. I however have a hard time figuring that some australian based garage user would vote the Vorstand of a german e.V.	02:07
DocScrutinizer05	not exactly simple stuff to get it right	02:09
Win7Mac	We need a "Mitgliederversammlung" as an entity. Those can be "active/regular members" (e.g. council) or whole community	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	it's one thing to found a e.V. - it's a whole different thing to entangle and link it to maemo community	02:10
Win7Mac	right...	02:10
Win7Mac	that's our task right now...	02:10
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DocScrutinizer05	but honestly, I have little to no remaining capacity in my brain to handle that right now	02:10
Win7Mac	sure, I thought so, just share your basic ideas about it please	02:11
DocScrutinizer05	I'm available as one of the foundation members, but not much more than that	02:11
DocScrutinizer05	I also didn't manage to look at that pad yet	02:12
DocScrutinizer05	and I'm trying to get out for a dinner (6h ago) resp now at least a beer, since some time	02:12
Win7Mac	I just don't wanna see you whine about our new constitution after everything is done ;)	02:13
DocScrutinizer05	well, isn't that the usual pilitical method to get new laws installed?	02:13
Win7Mac	might be, I prefer it the smooth way	02:14
DocScrutinizer05	bring them up at 17:45, in the last meeting before summer holiday	02:14
Win7Mac	apropos meeting, we need one for board	02:14
DocScrutinizer05	luckily i'm not board	02:14
Win7Mac	enjoy your beer, you deserved it!	02:15
DocScrutinizer05	hah!	02:15
Win7Mac	honestly!	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	I know why I'm unemployed - nobody could pay me for that stuff that I do	02:16
Win7Mac	exactly!	02:16
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: btw, are you just running off of money reserves?	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	kinda	02:18
kerio	D:	02:18
Win7Mac	though as treasurer, I don't wanna spend our donations on the Neo900, I'm tempted to donate to your paypal for that project	02:18
kerio	Win7Mac: do eeet	02:19
Win7Mac	but I guess you got a bigger idea about that...	02:19
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: marry an old billionaire widow	02:19
kerio	kill her discretely	02:19
kerio	fund maemo	02:20
Win7Mac	;)	02:20
DocScrutinizer05	not yet (bigger idea)	02:20
kerio	steal all the ubuntu edge money	02:21
Win7Mac	kickstarter and a little press-campaign	02:21
Win7Mac	right now is the perfect time since ubuntu Edge failed	02:21
kerio	"we're cheaper and more open"	02:21
DocScrutinizer05	for now I'll happily accept donations to my "maemo" paypal, which has a field "message" to put in a unambiguous order like "use for Neo900"	02:22
Win7Mac	nixie pixel will freak out	02:22
DocScrutinizer05	anything that comes in without such unambiguous subject will get used for maemo.org support	02:23
DocScrutinizer05	aka "on begalf of HiFo"	02:23
DocScrutinizer05	behalf even	02:23
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Win7Mac	maemo.org support is what i see as primary target for HiFo-donations	02:24
Win7Mac	right?	02:24
Win7Mac	"the infra"	02:24
DocScrutinizer05	we're thinking already about kickstarter or sth for prototypes, not buying any actual hardware but a "livestream from the developer's desk"	02:24
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DocScrutinizer05	Win7Mac: right	02:25
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Win7Mac	right way to go, IMHO	02:25
Win7Mac	with Neo900... that name is just gorgious	02:25
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DocScrutinizer05	well, first mail from Nikolaus with that idea is ~12h old now	02:26
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DocScrutinizer05	until we get sth like that done: fundraiser (roof on fire) -> put "Neo900" into message	02:27
DocScrutinizer05	away fro a beer now. For real	02:27
DocScrutinizer05	no really I mean it	02:28
DocScrutinizer05	I'm almost gone	02:28
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Win7Mac	just... do it!	02:28
DocScrutinizer05	yeah sure	02:28
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DocScrutinizer05	I'm doing it	02:29
DocScrutinizer05	RSN	02:29
Win7Mac	right now!	02:29
DocScrutinizer05	nur noch schnell die welt retten	02:29
RiD	lies	02:29
RiD	wat	02:29
DocScrutinizer05	1254587545 mails checken	02:29
Win7Mac	there'S a german song with those lines...	02:30
Win7Mac	DocScrutinizer05 feels like he's got the world on his shoulders...	02:31
Win7Mac	*the weight of the world	02:31
* Win7Mac pondres what would we do without him?		02:32
RiD	nothin	02:32
RiD	...that enter key still pressing too early	02:33
Win7Mac	just sit there, klickin the refresh-button but nothing happens...	02:33
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Win7Mac	and for the Neo900 kickstarter/indiegogo (doesn't really matter) campaign you OFC get full support from HiFo (I say). We definetely should make some concentrated campaign/noise on all channels!	02:40
GeneralAntilles	Is there a campaign?	02:40
Win7Mac	not yet	02:40
freemangordon	hi guys :)	02:40
Win7Mac	Hi!	02:40
GeneralAntilles	Ah	02:41
kerio	by the way, did someone ever manage to get a real AP with airbase-ng?	02:42
Win7Mac	GA, we need to untangle what we, in future as an e.V., want to keep from actual bylaws	02:42
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Win7Mac	as HiFo	02:43
freemangordon	kerio: did anyone ever try?	02:43
kerio	i don't know	02:43
kerio	i don't know enough about wifi to correctly use that crap	02:44
Win7Mac	GA, and we should have a meeting soon	02:45
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Win7Mac	~seen GeneralAntilles	02:57
infobot	generalantilles is currently on #maemo #harmattan. Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 16m 9s, last said: 'Ah'.	02:57
Win7Mac	Ah	02:57
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Win7Mac	<kerio> Win7Mac: do eeet - I deeed...;)	03:24
kerio	i meant the "use all the HiFo money"	03:24
Win7Mac	no, sorry	03:24
Win7Mac	actually, we don't even have acces to it	03:24
GeneralAntilles	Stupid First Niagara.	03:25
Win7Mac	but honestly, HiFo donations done so far are not for Neo900! so much should be clear, right?!	03:28
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GeneralAntilles	Gotta keep the infra up.	03:29
GeneralAntilles	HiFi can certainly do some advertising on Neo900's behalf, though.	03:30
Win7Mac	right, HiFo will for sure officially support that project but not financially. Neo900 project should have its own base on kickstarter/indiegogo	03:31
Win7Mac	if you ask me... ;)	03:32
Win7Mac	and I assume it will gather some thousand$$ for sure	03:33
GeneralAntilles	We only wish HiFi had the tens of Ks floating around for that.	03:36
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Win7Mac	right	03:37
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Snafu7	.	03:55
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* Win7Mac waves gn o/		03:57
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DocScrutinizer05	n8	04:07
DocScrutinizer05	had some funny time in my pub. Drunken weird chick	04:08
GeneralAntilles	Congratulations	04:09
freemangordon	hehe	04:09
freemangordon	so you think you're the only one :D	04:09
freemangordon	night doc	04:09
DocScrutinizer05	I left before it got too embarrassing (not for me)	04:11
DocScrutinizer05	also the drinks are cheaper and better here at home	04:12
freemangordon	what about girls?	04:12
DocScrutinizer05	meh, there's ~4 billion of them	04:13
GeneralAntilles	Boo	04:13
DocScrutinizer05	hi GA	04:14
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess?	04:14
DocScrutinizer05	I won't tell you about who's in my house. That's private	04:15
freemangordon	I though we're friends :(	04:15
freemangordon	:D:D:D	04:15
DocScrutinizer05	I can tell you though that several of those who are here wouldn't have appreciated when I brought that weird chick here :-)	04:16
DocScrutinizer05	incl me	04:16
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer05, did the short Maemo vacation treat you OK?	04:17
RiD	freemangordon haha i laughed at in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess?	04:17
DocScrutinizer05	well, its from -10% to something positive again	04:18
RiD	-- equals +	04:18
GeneralAntilles	That's something.	04:18
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: hmm? come on, isn't it clear I am kidding you?	04:18
DocScrutinizer05	then again my medical doctors try to ruin my life	04:18
* freemangordon has to work on his english		04:19
RiD	im satesfed wit my english skels	04:19
* DocScrutinizer05 has to work on his british humour		04:19
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer05, you should tell them you're fine and go skiing.	04:19
DocScrutinizer05	got appointments	04:20
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DocScrutinizer05	at least highly intriguing technical stuff to check out ;-)	04:21
GeneralAntilles	Good way to look at it.	04:21
* DocScrutinizer05 always wondered how they ramp up those supraconducting magnets		04:22
DocScrutinizer05	must be several 1000s of ampere in there	04:23
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DocScrutinizer05	do they use a little motor with a lever and a magnet at the end?	04:23
DocScrutinizer05	"wind it up" like a spring in a clock?	04:24
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robbiethe1st	DocScrutinizer05, how do you mean?	04:25
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robbiethe1st	Probably use a massive electromagnet?	04:25
DocScrutinizer05	when you got a ring of supraconductor, how do you create a 5000A current flowing thru it causing a several Tesla magnet field?	04:26
freemangordon	by external magnetic field?	04:26
GeneralAntilles	Magic, duh.	04:27
RiD	i agree with him ^	04:27
DocScrutinizer05	well, as soon as that external magnetic field collapses, it will eat all the energy from the supra magnet	04:27
freemangordon	hmm, no	04:27
RiD	supra supra... toyota	04:27
GeneralAntilles	Overrated, get yourself a BRZ or something.	04:27
freemangordon	because have some current nducted inthe superconductor	04:28
freemangordon	*you have	04:28
RiD	GeneralAntilles ugly	04:28
DocScrutinizer05	an external field causes not any current flux in a conductor, it's the cange in field that causes the current. When you ramp up and ramp down a field, the resulting integral in the conductor will be exactly zilch	04:29
freemangordon	hmm, right	04:29
GeneralAntilles	RiD, boo.	04:29
GeneralAntilles	OK, CTS-V.	04:29
RiD	qyou're going downhill	04:30
RiD	it kinda looks weird	04:30
GeneralAntilles	550 HP	04:30
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: going to ask wikipedia about it	04:30
DocScrutinizer05	however spinning a small magnet millions of times around the conductor should build up an ever increasing current	04:30
GeneralAntilles	RiD, pick your vehicle.	04:31
RiD	though if i won the lottery, i'd make the ultimate sleeper GeneralAntilles	04:31
DocScrutinizer05	that's where "motor, lever, magnet" comes in	04:31
RiD	something truly hideous that makes you think the car sucks	04:31
GeneralAntilles	Remake the E36 M3 Sedan?	04:31
GeneralAntilles	Oh	04:31
GeneralAntilles	A turbo V8 Gen 4 Camry.	04:31
freemangordon	sure, but the point is that SC should keep the current/magnetic field without any external stuff changed	04:32
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RiD	http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Toyota-Camry-gen3.jpg	04:32
RiD	hmh	04:32
GeneralAntilles	Gen 3 is a little tight in the engine compartment.	04:32
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: that's the whole point	04:32
RiD	ok	04:32
RiD	you're the expert	04:32
GeneralAntilles	Haha	04:33
GeneralAntilles	Well, I don't disagree with your visual assessment.	04:33
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: that is why E46 is the best BMW ever produced	04:33
GeneralAntilles	freemangordon, I like the E36s more.	04:33
GeneralAntilles	Although, if you could cram about 500 HP in an 80s VW Rabbit. . . .	04:33
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: e6 looks way ore sexy	04:34
RiD	vw rabbit?	04:34
freemangordon	*e46	04:34
RiD	is that the golf mk I	04:34
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: a SC "mirrors" whatever magnetic field you "show" to it	04:34
GeneralAntilles	RiD, yeah.	04:34
DocScrutinizer05	now think of a magnet pushed thru a SC ring	04:34
RiD	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPRjsl-QOI	04:34
RiD	is that good enough for you?	04:34
GeneralAntilles	Well, Mk. II	04:35
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: sure. But wait, don't they use SC coils actualy?	04:35
DocScrutinizer05	you return the magnet outside of the ring and push it thru the ring again	04:35
DocScrutinizer05	then again, and again	04:35
RiD	8,65 is definitely not bad. he states it's fully street legal too	04:35
RiD	but im not into that stuff	04:35
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GeneralAntilles	I like the rumble of a big American V8.	04:36
GeneralAntilles	Turbo I-4s just don't have the same visceral feel to them.	04:36
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: my old BMW was e36, my current is e46. honestly, e46 is waay better	04:36
DocScrutinizer05	after doing this 1000 times the SC ring should have a magnetic field of either 1000 or even 2000 times your small magnet you pushed	04:36
GeneralAntilles	freemangordon, ah.	04:37
DocScrutinizer05	no?	04:37
GeneralAntilles	I have a particular fondness for that mid-90s BMW look.	04:37
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: I think I know what happens, it is just that I am few jacks ahead right now to think about it	04:37
GeneralAntilles	I'd really love to find an E30 M3 for a reasonable price.	04:37
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: the first bummer I was driving was E21 :P	04:38
GeneralAntilles	Lucky man.	04:38
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: well, I am in Europe after all :)	04:39
RiD	what is that supposed to mean	04:39
* GeneralAntilles putters around in a Gen 4 I-4 5-speed Camry.		04:39
freemangordon	RiD: AFAIK GeneralAntilles is in USA	04:39
GeneralAntilles	USA USA	04:39
RiD	oh crap, i forgot about rockbox too	04:39
DocScrutinizer05	ask sixwheeledbeast	04:39
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	04:39
freemangordon	me too :P	04:40
DocScrutinizer05	I was really baffled about what his nick refers to	04:40
GeneralAntilles	Random aside: read Wool. It's excellent (as is the rest of the series).	04:41
DocScrutinizer05	and now I finally get me that cold pizza from yesterday	04:41
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: six wheeled motorcycle or something	04:41
freemangordon	I remember you were there when he explained	04:41
DocScrutinizer05	actually a pickup	04:42
freemangordon	oh, yeah	04:42
GeneralAntilles	Truck	04:42
freemangordon	:nod:	04:42
DocScrutinizer05	of which only 20 orso got built	04:42
GeneralAntilles	http://0.tqn.com/d/trucks/1/0/9/B/1/diesel_tundra_4.jpg	04:42
GeneralAntilles	They're all over the place.	04:42
DocScrutinizer05	NAH!	04:42
GeneralAntilles	We don't tax gas to infinite and beyond here.	04:42
DocScrutinizer05	some 500HP 3 axes pickup	04:43
GeneralAntilles	See a lot of them towing horses here.	04:43
freemangordon	having 500hp is just not fair :(	04:43
robbiethe1st	My dad's got an old Ford dually, 6-wheels there	04:44
DocScrutinizer05	robbiethe1st: hi!	04:45
freemangordon	GeneralAntilles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BMW_3er_%28E46,_1998%E2%80%932001%29_front_MJ.JPG :P	04:45
robbiethe1st	...also, diesel, with /maby/ 200HP, on a good day	04:46
DocScrutinizer05	GeneralAntilles: could you manage a devel device for robbiethe1st?	04:46
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DocScrutinizer05	he seriously honestly deserves and needs one	04:46
robbiethe1st	We'll see by tomorrow if I need one; I found something on ebay, just slightly broken, and offered the guy $80	04:46
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer05, no bank access.	04:46
DocScrutinizer05	dang!	04:46
robbiethe1st	Can't really afford it right now, but...	04:47
GeneralAntilles	Bank manager at First Niagara was a complete dick to Woody.	04:47
DocScrutinizer05	that's plain silly	04:47
DocScrutinizer05	what about that lawyer who created that mess? can't he transfer the money to any more sane and tangible place?	04:48
robbiethe1st	Also, yes. I would suggest using a credit union instead of a bank	04:49
DocScrutinizer05	I'm still wondering what to do, call police or talk to hells angels	04:49
robbiethe1st	CUs are almost always nicer to work with	04:49
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DocScrutinizer05	honestly, I feel like chief of idiot crew hearing we got ~4k$ of donations but don't have the money to pay robbiethe1st a device for 100$	04:52
robbiethe1st	XD	04:53
robbiethe1st	Take it over yourself	04:53
GeneralAntilles	Donations are for infra.	04:53
DocScrutinizer05	not all of them	04:53
GeneralAntilles	Going to attempt to form a German e.V. and open an account there	04:53
GeneralAntilles	Get them to cut a check for the new corporate account.	04:54
robbiethe1st	Thing I've found is that, no matter what the problem is, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself.	04:54
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, that will for sure happen tomorrow and pan out effortlessly	04:54
RiD	robbiethe1st what happened?	04:55
* DocScrutinizer05 is taking 80$ from "his" "funds" "account" and transferring it to robbiethe1st		04:55
robbiethe1st	RiD, how do you mean? This applies to anything at work	04:55
RiD	no no no, i mean your n900	04:55
DocScrutinizer05	broken	04:55
RiD	how badly broken	04:56
RiD	did it set itself on fire	04:56
DocScrutinizer05	sufficiently bad to not allow BM maintenance and development	04:56
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DocScrutinizer05	I'm just so fed up that such stuff always gets paid by me or woody from our private wallet	04:57
robbiethe1st	Lets see. I currently have three. My original one has a broken USB port. My current one has a broken cellmodem, but otherwise works... and I use it every day	04:57
RiD	i currently have 1 and spare parts of a broken one that i bought.. the owner scammed me	04:57
RiD	the one that works has a broken usb obviously	04:58
robbiethe1st	My third has a broken USB port, and may or may not have a working cellmodem	04:59
robbiethe1st	Note that #2 and #3 were both bought broken, because they were cheap	04:59
RiD	define cheap btw	04:59
robbiethe1st	This was several years ago(2-3), so around $100	05:00
robbiethe1st	when devices were $300	05:00
RiD	I see	05:00
RiD	i got one with a totally busted mobo for 45€	05:00
robbiethe1st	two devices for like $120, versus a new/good one for 300.	05:00
* DocScrutinizer05 is going to write invoices for his overtime and other expenses and send them to HiFo		05:00
RiD	everything else was supposed to be in quite good state. Ah, horrible it was.	05:00
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RiD	this week i'm going to buy another N900. I know for a fact that this one actually works and the usb is not broken	05:01
RiD	i'll be able to check the most vital things though, before buying	05:02
GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer05, no bank access. :P	05:02
DocScrutinizer05	I'm just glad that friggin PP account of HiFo also is broken	05:03
GeneralAntilles	If you want to expedite it, help Win7Mac draft the legal documents for the e.V.	05:04
DocScrutinizer05	I wonder if I could come up with a way how HiFo could have get fsckd up any more than it is now	05:04
GeneralAntilles	Pointless complaining.	05:05
GeneralAntilles	We're working on it.	05:05
GeneralAntilles	The people who made the mess are gone.	05:05
DocScrutinizer05	no, embarrassing	05:05
DocScrutinizer05	give me the address and name, I'll find somebody to tell them	05:06
GeneralAntilles	That's why we had a special election.	05:07
DocScrutinizer05	even when we got an e.V. in Germany. Then what?	05:07
GeneralAntilles	Then no dealing with US taxes or First Niagara	05:07
DocScrutinizer05	how's that changing anything about the no-access issue?	05:07
GeneralAntilles	They'll cut a check to a Germany corporate account	05:07
GeneralAntilles	and then we have access to the money and can open up PayPal donations.	05:07
DocScrutinizer05	dafaq, transfer the shit to your account!!! or mine!	05:07
RiD	...or mine :D	05:08
GeneralAntilles	Can't	05:08
GeneralAntilles	Don't have access	05:08
GeneralAntilles	First Niagara refuses to give us access	05:08
DocScrutinizer05	so HOW IS THAT going to CHANGE?	05:08
robbiethe1st	Who has access?	05:08
GeneralAntilles	Nobody	05:08
GeneralAntilles	But they agreed to cut a check to another Hildon Foundation corporate account.	05:09
DocScrutinizer05	bullshit!	05:09
GeneralAntilles	Yes	05:09
GeneralAntilles	Well	05:09
GeneralAntilles	Unless you have the time and money to take them to small claims court	05:09
DocScrutinizer05	what you for sure should do	05:09
GeneralAntilles	Anybody who speaks German should go ahead and help Win7Mac draft the e.V. docs.	05:09
DocScrutinizer05	and include that lawyer into that trial	05:09
DocScrutinizer05	dafaq, no german e.V. will have any credibility at some fuckedup 1st nigeria	05:10
DocScrutinizer05	who's on that account's access list?	05:11
GeneralAntilles	I don't believe anyone is	05:11
RiD	first nigeria lol	05:11
DocScrutinizer05	that dude the HECK goes and transfers the whole money to some other account!	05:11
GeneralAntilles	Rob was removed	05:11
DocScrutinizer05	when nobody is then the money is lost forever	05:11
GeneralAntilles	and they refuse to acknowledge our corporate resolution to add Woody & Co.	05:11
DocScrutinizer05	are they NUTS??	05:12
GeneralAntilles	Money's in the account, but nobody currently has access, bank manager is an uncooperative asshole.	05:12
GeneralAntilles	So, we're working through it as best we can.	05:12
* DocScrutinizer05 buys a one way ticket to USA, and a winchester		05:12
GeneralAntilles	They agreed to cut a check to another HiFo corporate account.	05:12
DocScrutinizer05	what the holy fuck is " another HiFo corporate account"???	05:13
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GeneralAntilles	One opened with a German bank.	05:13
DocScrutinizer05	HiFo is no corporation!	05:13
GeneralAntilles	To go with the e.V.	05:13
GeneralAntilles	Uh, yes it is.	05:13
GeneralAntilles	Incorporated in the state of Pennsylvania.	05:13
DocScrutinizer05	this is so terribly ridiculous	05:13
DocScrutinizer05	I gonna fly over there and beat up Rob the correct way	05:14
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DocScrutinizer05	maybe homeland security can help	05:15
robbiethe1st	BTW, I'm in the US, I will offer what I can	05:15
robbiethe1st	I'm in Idaho, though, which makes it a little hard for some things	05:15
DocScrutinizer05	robbiethe1st: ask what a raid command will ask for!	05:15
DocScrutinizer05	I think Mr R.M.B. loudly asked for something like that	05:16
robbiethe1st	huh?	05:16
DocScrutinizer05	Rob obviously managed to get himself removed from account access list (as the only one on there) and failed to get anybody else on	05:18
DocScrutinizer05	he effectively donated stuff to first nigeria	05:19
DocScrutinizer05	with nobody on access list, nobody ever can claim the donations anytime again	05:20
DocScrutinizer05	heck, he even might have taken the money and now laughs at maemo community	05:21
DocScrutinizer05	we'll never know	05:21
GeneralAntilles	Sure we do.	05:21
DocScrutinizer05	uhuh	05:21
GeneralAntilles	They agreed to pen a check to another HiFo account.	05:21
GeneralAntilles	The money is still there.	05:22
DocScrutinizer05	WHAT THE FUCK IS another HiFo account?	05:22
DocScrutinizer05	and how do you think anybody on earth could prove this property of any account?	05:23
DocScrutinizer05	in the world I live in you got persons who can access accounts	05:24
DocScrutinizer05	and tell what shall happen to the money on there	05:24
DocScrutinizer05	they have to prove their identity	05:24
DocScrutinizer05	by passwords, ID card, whatever	05:25
DocScrutinizer05	in Gwrmany you can't even pen an account for some "HiFo"	05:26
DocScrutinizer05	or e.V.	05:26
DocScrutinizer05	you always have persons that have access	05:26
DocScrutinizer05	in my book Rob is a burglar	05:28
DocScrutinizer05	I also think today you don't have any checks assigned to names or particular accounts. everybody owning a check can hand it in on whatever account s/he likes	05:31
DocScrutinizer05	if there are any checks anyway nowadays. Probably they don't print that stuff anymore	05:32
DocScrutinizer05	I think last time I seen a check is like 20 years ago	05:33
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DocScrutinizer05	and even back then they all had the printed note under "recipient": "or the one handing this check in" and on the backside "strike out of 'or then one that hands in' is considered moot"	05:34
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DocScrutinizer05	so what is the exact procedure supposed to transfer the donations to a new account?	05:36
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DocScrutinizer05	I more and more understand what happened to the contract with Nokia	05:38
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DocScrutinizer05	if HiFo USA isn't able to open a new account and make that money get transferred from 1st nigra to that new account, how do you think a german e.V. could do?	05:43
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DocScrutinizer05	"I got a letter for Mr HiFo. What? Sorry I don't think you actually are Mr. HiFo. You can send somebody to pick up that letter at post office. He just has to prove that Mr. HiFo sent him"	06:17
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DocScrutinizer05	sounds sane, no? whom would you send?	06:19
DocScrutinizer05	A German maybe? ;-D	06:19
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thedead1440	DocScrutinizer05: you mentioned on http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369935&postcount=141 that OMAP3 chipsets don't work with >512MB RAM then how does the N9 a OMAP3630 chip work with 1GB RAM	07:09
DocScrutinizer05	does it?	07:10
thedead1440	indeed hence the surprise :)	07:11
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, then I dunno what dos1 found this afternoon	07:11
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DocScrutinizer05	I as well seem to recall we checked what memory sizes the PoP on N900 3430 could actually use, quite some time ago when SpeedEvil and me mused about swapping SoC or PoP for a better one, and we as well found 512MB max. Maybe for 3730 that changed and Dos1 did look at wrong place	07:14
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thedead1440	you mean for 3630 not 3730	07:15
thedead1440	possibly thats the reason	07:15
DocScrutinizer05	I think x<pair>xxx is the HS variant, while x<impair>xxx is the non-HS variant	07:16
DocScrutinizer05	like with 3430 and 3530	07:17
DocScrutinizer05	in the end it doesn't matter, Nikolaus will try to source the best SoC he can get	07:18
robbiethe1st	I'	07:19
DocScrutinizer05	and for now we can't tell what that will be	07:19
robbiethe1st	I'm wondering... wouldn't it just be cheaper to take a few old N900s and do some reflow on them; up the Ram?	07:19
robbiethe1st	perhaps do some other simple mods?	07:19
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robbiethe1st	Just thinking how much money people would be spending, for a not that much better system, and how few could actually do it	07:20
DocScrutinizer05	robbiethe1st: you're not to the point of this project. We want to create a new device that potentially can get built in a few years still, that we can base on for any successor and that we have full documentation for and full control over every single component	07:21
robbiethe1st	In which case, wouldn't you want to build it with something /signifigantly/ better?	07:22
DocScrutinizer05	no, since we want to stay compatible to fremantle	07:22
DocScrutinizer05	and also we already have the core GTA04 design, tested and working	07:22
robbiethe1st	What, exactly, does that entail? I mean, isn't most of it just standard libraries and ARM code?	07:23
DocScrutinizer05	sorry I can't discuss this in detail right now, it's too complex and I'm too tired	07:23
robbiethe1st	Just out of curiosity, what would prevent taking the whole OS, using a new kernel and interface modules, and running it on, say, a Tegra-based tablet? You've got X11 drivers etc?	07:23
robbiethe1st	I should ask you tomorrow, then.	07:23
robbiethe1st	(because, that's sort of what I want to try to do myself - got a Nexus 7(gen1), want to get X on it, and hopefully Hildon	07:24
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DocScrutinizer05	if you think you could port fremantle to a new kernel and a new platform with new peripherals, go ahead talk to pali why he still is basing KP on 2.6.28 and finally do it	07:25
DocScrutinizer05	fremantle >> hildon	07:25
DocScrutinizer05	porting hildon to a new platform == cordia aiui	07:26
chainsawbike	DocScrutinizer05, he's gone, and clearly needs to research...	07:26
DocScrutinizer05	doesn't mean you got a new fremantle device, with all the apps from fremantle readily available	07:27
chainsawbike	but this GTA04 project does look interesting... will be following closely	07:27
* DocScrutinizer05 feels like trying to mount a new engine into a car with broken engine, and maybe even a new engine with 50% more power. And all the time guys pass by asking "hey! why don't you build a Ferrari instead?"		07:30
chainsawbike	"wanna help? we will need cash, and plenty of it?"	07:31
DocScrutinizer05	while same time my wife tells me she shreddered all our credit cards	07:31
DocScrutinizer05	together with the money we had in the house	07:32
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korhojoa	wat	07:43
korhojoa	why would she shred money :(	07:43
chainsawbike	MUAHAHAHAHAH i have a shredder!	07:46
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Pali	DocScrutinizer05: Can maemo infra provide for us supl-proxy with nonself-signed certificate? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369745&postcount=101 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1369854&postcount=102	09:32
Pali	DocScrutinizer05: btw, in above link are other supl servers	09:33
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freemangordon_	Pali: can't we just replace the certificate?	09:43
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Pali	freemangordon: that is only proxy and you can use any certificate on your own proxy server	09:45
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Pali	so also maemo.org SSL certificate which is trusted	09:46
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freemangordon	Pali: I got that, but why put additional pressure on the maemo infra if we can use the correct certificate on the device. I guess we can take it from N9	09:48
freemangordon	oh, wait	09:50
freemangordon	I guess we should change liblocation	09:50
freemangordon	Pali: seems we are missing some root cert on the device	09:54
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freemangordon	Pali: well, "openssl s_client -connect supl.nokia.com:7275 -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/" gives Verify return code: 0 (ok)	10:03
Veggen	freemangordon: supl.nokia.com:7275 provides every certificate up to and including the Verisign root certificate.	10:08
Veggen	However: it's the version of the root-certificate signed with md2 hash algorithm, considered unsafe, so lots of software have started not trusting it.	10:08
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freemangordon	Veggen: why then if I give -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/ to openssl, the verification does not fail?	10:09
Veggen	there exists a new version, drop-in-replacement, signed with sha1.	10:09
Veggen	...because it's the same keys? And openssl does trust it.	10:10
freemangordon	Veggen: "...so lots of software have started not trusting it." - nothing changed on n900 side	10:10
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freemangordon	so I can't see how it stared to not trust it	10:11
Veggen	hmm.	10:11
Veggen	well. Maybe they did something on the supl.nokia.com side?	10:12
freemangordon	that's for sure	10:12
freemangordon	:)	10:12
Pali	supl.nokia.com is self-signed	10:12
Pali	read that TMO links	10:12
Veggen	Pali: uhm...no.	10:13
freemangordon	Pali: it is not if I read the openssl output correctly	10:13
Pali	ok	10:13
freemangordon	Pali: try "openssl s_client -connect supl.nokia.com:7275 -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/"	10:13
Veggen	freemangordon: SSL-wise, they don't have to provide the root certificate in the chain. As supl.nokia.com does.	10:14
freemangordon	oh, I see	10:14
freemangordon	Veggen: but wait, N9/50 does not have any problem with it	10:14
Pali	anyway, there are some other hidden gconf keys for supl location daemon	10:15
Pali	which are not exported to GUI	10:15
Pali	look at gconf file included in location packages	10:15
Veggen	However, usually it doesn't hurt. But if they recently change to provide it, maybe because of infrastructure changes...then maybe they provide it now and not before.	10:15
Veggen	freemangordon: different software components on the client side might be more picky.	10:15
Veggen	Now I am just guessing at possible explanations. But I did have exactly that problem myself, for a site I do SSL-certificate-management for.	10:16
freemangordon	Veggen: sure, but if we have a problem in openssl, lets upgrade/fix it then, instead of setting up supl proxy on maemo infra :)	10:16
freemangordon	Veggen: how did you fix it?	10:17
Veggen	I stopped having the root certificate in the chain.	10:17
freemangordon	hmm won;t work for us :)	10:18
Veggen	Mind you, it did require convincing a $three_letter_bigcorp to implement a change in their SSL stack.	10:18
Veggen	Luckily, I represented a $very_large_financial_customer in this case.	10:19
freemangordon	:D	10:19
freemangordon	however, it seems we have some problem on N900	10:20
freemangordon	maybe time to RE liblocation	10:20
Veggen	unfortunately, I have no more N900.	10:20
Veggen	hmm, or maybe I have.	10:21
Veggen	it was my N9 that was lost in a Dubai Taxi.	10:21
freemangordon	damn, it is not liblocation :(	10:21
freemangordon	Pali: do we have any idea which binary is failing to connect to supl server?	10:22
Pali	location-daemon binary	10:22
freemangordon	Pali: sure? I can only find /usr/bin/location-proxy	10:23
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Pali	so location-proxy	10:24
Pali	it is that big daemon binary	10:25
Pali	grep for gconf keys	10:25
freemangordon	Pali: hmm, this is some 30k binary, why big?	10:25
Pali	do not remember, but there was some small libraries and one executable daemon binary	10:26
Pali	and I found there some hidden gconf keys	10:26
freemangordon	I guess it makes way more sense to RE this, instead of libhildon-plugins-notify-sv.so. ade won;t be happy :D	10:26
freemangordon	-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 31988 Mar 2 2010 /usr/bin/location-proxy	10:27
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sLumPia	Hi guys...Is N900 support power bank?	10:43
sLumPia	I have try several power bank, none successfully charge N900 battery	10:43
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unclouded	sLumPia: I have a software problem on mine that means I can only charge from a real PC USB port	10:48
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* _ade_ is waving his fist at freemangordon :-)		10:50
freemangordon	:)	10:50
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freemangordon	_ade_: morning	10:50
_ade_	morning	10:51
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_ade_	freemangordon: I would say give the location issues priority above custom alarm sounds :-)	10:52
freemangordon	:nod:	10:52
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sLumPia	unclouded: Sorry, what software problem? Is that only your on N900 or happen on all N900?	10:55
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unclouded	no idea what the problem is. can't tell if your N900 is affected. definitely not all N900s though	10:56
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sLumPia	I have try at least 3 power banks and all of it failed to charged my phone	10:58
freemangordon	Pali: "Aug 28 10:55:45 Nokia-N900 location-proxy[1496]: GLIB DEBUG default - Socket to supl.nokia.com opened, fd=10, verify_res=19"	10:59
freemangordon	seems like it is certman to blame	11:00
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Apic	A wonderful splendid good Morning (UGT) on this gorgeous Setting Orange!	11:04
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer05: IIRC, I did find a gig - but it was a flashless gig. I was assuming it was possible to boot from emmc - perhaps if you did silly things like not bond a ball, or tie a ball high/low using wire	13:45
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SpeedEvil	And 'find' meant 'locate on microns website' - rather than 'find vendor that will ship 5.	13:46
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Sicelo	.ZZZZZ .........................................................ssz......................aazzzzzzzzzzzaa7$).,,,,z.,,,,,,,,8898l!qwgblioimlzzzzzzz	14:58
Apic	Good Sleep.	15:01
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DocScrutinizer05	SpeedEvil: thanks	15:37
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Luke-Jr	anyone want my old N810 Gentoo binpkgs?	15:54
Luke-Jr	considering nuking them	15:54
Win7Mac	<DocScrutinizer05> "so what is the exact procedure supposed to transfer the donations to a new account?" - 1) register HiFo as e.V. 2) create bank account in germany 3) The bank will cut a check to Hildon Foundation e.V. or transfer the funds to that new bank account	15:54
XATRIX	Hi, found an update for 'mc'	15:55
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XATRIX	But it says it can't be installed because of it can't find 'libslang2	15:55
XATRIX	any way to fix it ?	15:56
Win7Mac	*3) First Niagara wil...	15:57
* jaska drools at the mention of n900 with 4x the ram		15:58
DocScrutinizer05	Win7Mac: you ever tried to open a bank account for some virtual entity?	15:58
DocScrutinizer05	Win7Mac: afaik there are no checks that can get handed in to only the account that's written on the check	15:59
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Win7Mac	no, but change of members/account access is possible	16:00
DocScrutinizer05	Win7Mac: how would we and who would prove to 1st nagura that the HiFo account is legit and actually related to the US HiFo corporation?	16:01
Win7Mac	send all the papers + translation?	16:01
DocScrutinizer05	there are already ~5 "hildon" entities existing, why can't none of them claim the money? (assuming that 1st nigeria would actually refuse to send the money to account of e.g. http://www.hildon.com/) Quite obviously you could fake whatever papers you like and send them to USA electronically or as FAX	16:04
Win7Mac	ok, I get your point. what can we do?	16:05
DocScrutinizer05	when some legit legal HiFo director can't open a new account anywhere in USA and then make 1st niagra send the money to that new USA account, then why would a german e.V be able to make them send the money to a german account?	16:05
DocScrutinizer05	I don't see anything that can be done anymore	16:06
Win7Mac	did you see woodys mail from 20.08.2013 21:45?	16:06
DocScrutinizer05	Rob fucked it up thoroughly for whole maemo community	16:06
DocScrutinizer05	no	16:07
Win7Mac	do you have it?	16:07
DocScrutinizer05	no	16:07
Win7Mac	hm, you were cc'd. anyway, just a sec	16:07
DocScrutinizer05	wait, then I must have it	16:07
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Win7Mac	sent	16:09
DocScrutinizer05	subject?	16:09
Apic	Subject == Object	16:09
Win7Mac	First Niagra being a PITA.	16:09
Win7Mac	;)	16:10
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DocScrutinizer05	I wonder why the heck the original mail didn't make it	16:20
DocScrutinizer05	you should reread this mail carefully. Woody is clearly stating what he got told by Mike, and aiui the check option been not a quote of Mike's words	16:21
Win7Mac	from woodys mail - we prolly could write a new "Corporate Resolution to appoint new trustees" for Woody only	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	sure	16:22
Win7Mac	First Niagara might except that	16:22
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Win7Mac	that for sure would be the fastest to get hold of the money	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	and you moost probably should find a new bank in USA with friendly competent employees, and ask them to help claim the money from 1stN	16:23
DocScrutinizer05	most*	16:23
DocScrutinizer05	one bank knows the other bank's weird thinking and how to cope with it	16:24
DocScrutinizer05	find a new bank, talk to them and explain to them what you need, what you want to be able to do with that account, show them the existing papers and ask them if they need any other or additional documents to set up a working account and to claim the money from 1st niagara	16:25
Win7Mac	it'd be an interim solution just to get the money asap. We'd kill that account as soon as we have the e.v.	16:27
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DocScrutinizer05	I dunno US banks, but here in Germany at least there's a think called "Bankeinzugsverfahren" where the destination account bank initiates the transfer, based on some permission the owner of the drafted account gave to the owner of the drafting account	16:28
DocScrutinizer05	s/think/thing/	16:28
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: I dunno US banks, but here in Germany at least there's a thing called "Bankeinzugsverfahren" where the destination account bank initiates the transfer, based on some permission the owner of the drafted account gave to the owner of the drafting account	16:28
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DocScrutinizer05	since there's no verification about said permission on drafted side, the drafting side bank has to make sure the account owner is properly identified, and also they mustn't hand out the money for some period of time after transfer, so drafted side has a chance to check their account and roll back any rogue transfer	16:31
Win7Mac	ok, I'll email Woody	16:33
DocScrutinizer05	I hate to say this, but: I told you for all I know you have to show up physically in a branch of the bank to get you on the access list, and you have to bring ID card or similar, and either the current owner must accompany you or the bank got a signed order from owner to add you (full name, nationality, maybe even ID card number) to the access list	16:36
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DocScrutinizer05	any other procedure would seem vulnerable and prone to fraud to me	16:37
Win7Mac	well, a signed order shouldn't be a problem	16:38
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DocScrutinizer05	from whom? now the account at 1st viagra is fsckdup since Rob removed. I don't think even Rob could sign such order now	16:42
DocScrutinizer05	basically nobody can, since nobody is on the access list anymore aiui. the account is basically orphaned	16:43
Win7Mac	if read that mail right, 1st Niagara accepts Woody only	16:43
Win7Mac	is there something similar to german PostIdent-Verfahren in the US?	16:44
DocScrutinizer05	I think even in germany postident is not sufficient to open or manage a bank account	16:47
Win7Mac	my bank offers it	16:47
Win7Mac	http://www.sparda-bank-hamburg.de/pdf/konto_und_depot/hh_postident_coupon.pdf	16:48
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DocScrutinizer05	ponder the following: every russian mafia boss and every german pimp will happily pay you a few thousand for you doing him the favor to open an account on your name that he can access and use to clean his illegal money	16:50
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DocScrutinizer05	al qaida all the same	16:50
DocScrutinizer05	there's a rather terse ruleset what banks may allow and what they never will do, regarding identities and accountability of the individuals who have access to an account	16:51
DocScrutinizer05	Geldwaeschegesetz	16:52
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Win7Mac	right, I'm suggesting to woody to be either 1) only treasurer for the moment to get on the access list 2) open new account with all 3 of us on the access list	16:54
DocScrutinizer05	btw similar considerations apply to e.V. - the foundation members maybe have to be Germans, most likely they have to live in Germany	16:55
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DocScrutinizer05	both	16:55
Win7Mac	where you have that from?	16:55
DocScrutinizer05	when Woody can do this, he pretty please immediately transfers all money out of the tainted account at 1stN to any other account any of you guys has full access to	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	I don't mind if that's a private account of any of you, or you actually manage to create a new account in USA	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	creating an account is a lightweight and free of charge process, first approach	16:57
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DocScrutinizer05	if you manage to talk to the clerk about the purpose of the account and ask him how to set such thing up properly, all the better	16:58
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DocScrutinizer05	maybe don't confuse the guy at bank with HiFo foundation nonprofit blabla but simply explain to him you are 5 guys sharing a flat or a house, and the account is for all 5 of you, and eventually one or two of the crew may change	17:01
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DocScrutinizer05	s/all 5 of you/the house/	17:01
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: maybe don't confuse the guy at bank with HiFo foundation nonprofit blabla but simply explain to him you are 5 guys sharing a flat or a house, and the account is for the house, and eventually one or two of the crew may change	17:01
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DocScrutinizer05	you of course can tell him about that HiFo club, but that doesn't change the way the account shall work and your house-example was just to explain more easily what you need	17:03
DocScrutinizer05	after all this is not terre_des_hommes	17:04
DocScrutinizer05	((where you have that from?)) mere logic. I don't think some Inuit can meet in their igloo and found a german e.V.	17:06
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DocScrutinizer05	or worse yet: ku klux klan or al qaida	17:08
DocScrutinizer05	obviously you at least have to be present in Germany to sign the papers and hand them in, and to check your snailmail box at the official address of the e.V.	17:10
DocScrutinizer05	and Ordnungsamt must have a feasible way to verify identity of the inaugural members	17:10
DocScrutinizer05	and to contact them	17:11
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DocScrutinizer05	err Amt fuer ordentliche Oeffnung	17:13
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DocScrutinizer05	check "(griechischer\|spanischer\|tuerkischer\|*) Kulturverien" - they are all founded by German residents, though maybe they are Greeks or Spanish or...	17:17
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dhbiker	why is my N900 refusing to ring at random times ?	17:27
dhbiker	like it rings on the first call	17:27
dhbiker	and then on the next it doesn't	17:27
dhbiker	:\|	17:27
Win7Mac	sorry, my neighbour just came in, re-read now	17:27
DocScrutinizer05	dhbiker: maybe your system is getting hogged by sth. check `df -h` and `top`	17:32
dhbiker	already checked	17:32
dhbiker	and load is always 0.07 or lower	17:33
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DocScrutinizer05	also just maybe your accelerometer got a hickup - it does this sometimes. Then your device might think it's face-down which means 'mute'. start spirit level app or similar accelerometer readout to check	17:33
DocScrutinizer05	load is ok then, what about df?	17:34
dhbiker	root 68% used	17:34
dhbiker	everything else ok	17:34
dhbiker	that's what's strange to me	17:36
dhbiker	nothing special to see	17:36
dhbiker	accelerometer also doing fine	17:37
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dhbiker	well... seems like i have to reflash it soon then :\|	17:40
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DocScrutinizer05	check syslog (install it if you don't already have it)	17:48
Win7Mac	DocScrutinizer, I can't find any info saying non-germans cannot be funding members of an e.V.	17:49
Win7Mac	Leitfaden zum Vereinsrecht, page 13: http://www.bmj.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/broschueren_fuer_warenkorb/DE/Leitfaden_Vereinsrecht.html?	17:49
DocScrutinizer05	check other sounds. Is it only ringtone that fails or are all sounds broken? what about your profile? And what else is actually working when a call comes in - vibration, missed call notification, dialer popping up?	17:50
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DocScrutinizer05	Win7Mac: I'm rather sure they have to have a falid addr in germany, called "ladungsfaehige Anschrift". doesn't matter if they are native Germans or any other nationality, but they can't create a e.V. when they are just moving to Germany in their holiday or even not come to Germany at all and just send some signed papers from Australia	17:52
ludens	anyone else who would like to run fish 2.0 on their N900?	17:52
ludens	i used 1.23something before and it was great	17:52
ludens	but i never managed to compile it myself	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	fish? that weird filesystem?	17:53
ludens	no the shell	17:53
ludens	http://fishshell.com/	17:53
Win7Mac	ok, thanks I'll do some more research	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	s/falid/valid/.	17:54
DocScrutinizer05	dhbiker: also, do you by any chance have per-contact-ringtones installed (package has some different name I can't recall right now)?	17:56
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dhbiker	DocScrutinizer05: nope i don't use per contact ringtones	17:58
dhbiker	sms and call ringtone randomly faily	17:59
dhbiker	also not vibrating when it should	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	Win7Mac: german e.V. has special protection by law. It as well has some privileges. So you can bet on something in law forbids they abuse this on cayman islands simply by using a fax or one stooge in here	17:59
dhbiker	only thing i have and i use it for more than a year is timed silencer	18:00
DocScrutinizer05	hmmm	18:00
DocScrutinizer05	I suggest dbus-monitor >>sessionbus.log&; dbus-monitor -s >>systembus.log	18:01
DocScrutinizer05	and syslog	18:01
DocScrutinizer05	or simply reflash ;-)	18:01
dhbiker	probably just reflash	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	do a BM backup before! if only for forensics	18:02
dhbiker	i will	18:02
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dhbiker	thanks DocScrutinizer05 :>	18:03
DocScrutinizer05	a weird idea: does your AV-jack work properly, i.e. does it recognize headset and headphones correctly?	18:03
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dhbiker	oh.. hmm	18:03
dhbiker	let me check	18:03
DocScrutinizer05	also, check size of your events-db	18:04
dhbiker	yep	18:04
dhbiker	works	18:04
dhbiker	where is that ?	18:05
DocScrutinizer05	eventsdb known to hog system to death when it frows to insane sizes. I consider everything >1MB severely insane	18:05
DocScrutinizer05	mompls	18:05
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DocScrutinizer05	/home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger	18:06
DocScrutinizer05	el-v1,db	18:07
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DocScrutinizer05	s/frows/grows/	18:07
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dhbiker	326k	18:10
SAiF	Doc,	18:10
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ludens	nobody here tried the fish shell?	18:23
Apic	Nope	18:24
ludens	its awesome. unfortunately i failed when i tried to build it with the maemo sdk	18:24
DocScrutinizer05	dhbiker: syslog and dbus-monitor it is then	18:32
SAiF	~ping	18:36
infobot	~pong	18:36
SAiF	^sorry I am getting used to doing that..	18:36
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DocScrutinizer05	~ping SAiF	18:38
infobot	pong SAiF	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	~coffee SAiF	18:39
* infobot steals some of aloril's special coffee and gives it to SAiF on a silver platter.		18:39
SAiF	o.O hoho..:)	18:40
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SAiF	Doc, on Neo900, I won't vote.	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	np	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	don't vote if you're not interested	18:42
DocScrutinizer05	we just need to find out about chances to make that happen	18:42
SAiF	Its not that I am not insterested.	18:42
SAiF	with just above 100bucks (coverterd 8000rs) a month( as a trainee), I cannot vote.	18:43
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SAiF	But I would like a feature where ..	18:44
dhbiker	vote ?	18:44
dhbiker	sekrit vote ? :O	18:44
SAiF	I am struggling for english	18:44
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SAiF	where I could store some money as an online wallet, where I can only put money now and then, from now on and maemo can take it for developement, and when my wallet reaches the amount at which neo900 is selling, I will get one too.	18:49
SAiF	Somebody rephrase	18:49
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Win7Mac	just had a phonecall with the Deutsche Postbank and they will not accept treasurers who do not show up in a local branch :(	19:26
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Win7Mac	for identification	19:26
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Win7Mac	no postident process whatsoever	19:26
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DocScrutinizer05	SAiF: it's pretty clear :-) and thanks, and yes we will probably try to make such thing possible	19:47
DocScrutinizer05	we're about to ponder a donation/fundraiser/kickstarter that does not automatically buy you a device but donations are meant for development. Of course we can plan to send out devices to donors who reached a certain limit, once we got them built	19:49
SAiF	okay doc.,	19:50
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DocScrutinizer05	we might go for a combination of first-come-first-serve and those-wo-donated-most. Yet to get evaluated how a fair process should look like	19:51
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dhbiker	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142	20:22
dhbiker	do my eyes see right ? :O	20:23
DocScrutinizer05	haha	20:26
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DocScrutinizer05	spread the word!	20:26
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dhbiker	will do sir!	20:27
dhbiker	well i guess it's time to restart the development of my EQ :3	20:28
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dhbiker	also. voted on a poll	20:38
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GeneralAntilles	DocScrutinizer05, how impossible is a specs bump?	20:42
dos1	GeneralAntilles: for Neo900?	20:43
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GeneralAntilles	dos1, yeah.	21:55
discopig	i'd definitely grab a neo900	21:55
discopig	depending on price	21:55
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dos1	GeneralAntilles: some minor spec bump is very possible - we'll try to get the best parts we can afford and find	21:56
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dos1	major spec bump (like switching to OMAP4) is probably impossible at all	21:56
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discopig	just having usb ports that don't fall off, and some more ram would already do wonders	21:57
DocScrutinizer05	you'll get both	21:58
discopig	yeah then i'd grab one	21:58
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DocScrutinizer05	plus true USB-OTG, and a modem that's not telling you "no SIM detected" after 3 years	21:59
discopig	nice	21:59
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discopig	that would definitely make the device a good bit more future proof	22:00
DocScrutinizer05	GeneralAntilles: depends on the particular specs you want to bump	22:00
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DocScrutinizer05	regarding SoC we're pretty much limited by what's available and what would be compatible to fremantle	22:02
GeneralAntilles	I think the RAM is probably the biggest bottleneck.	22:02
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GeneralAntilles	Ideally, I'd like an N900 formfactor device which can run Sailfish.	22:02
Sicelo	18:59 < DocScrutinizer05> plus true USB-OTG, and a modem that's not telling you "no SIM detected" after 3 years <<<<------ how would this be guaranteed?	22:03
DocScrutinizer05	Nikolaus said we theoretically could go OMAP4 since the increased height isn't a problem maybe in Neo900 - unlike GTA02/04 - but we would start to leave known ground	22:03
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DocScrutinizer05	Sicelo: hmm?	22:03
ShadowJK	In practice, there's always someone who will manage to rip out the usb ports	22:03
GeneralAntilles	OMAP4 would be a homerun.	22:03
* ShadowJK has managed to rip out two usb ports on his desktop PC, but so far no N900 usb ports		22:03
ShadowJK	Software will be a big issue for omap4 though, I'd think	22:04
DocScrutinizer05	there's no guarantee in life ever. But on GTA04 / Neo900 we use a modem module, and that hardly will suffer from popping-open solder points when you press too hard on the kbd	22:04
discopig	i'm going to try to solder my n900's usb port soon	22:05
discopig	i guess it's a good time to learn	22:05
discopig	one of them is working intermittently so i don't want it to use it anymore until it's soldered and the other one i want to solder it before it starts breaking down	22:05
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DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: (software issue) that's what I think as well	22:06
GeneralAntilles	Hmm, different goals. I'd like something that'd work with a modern platform more than I want a faster Fremantle device.	22:06
DocScrutinizer05	the whole purpose of Neo900 from a maemo community POV is to run maemo on it, preferably binary-compatible	22:07
ShadowJK	There are plenty of devices running "modern platforms" though	22:07
DocScrutinizer05	exactly	22:07
Win7Mac	but no modern open platforms	22:08
DocScrutinizer05	we're not going the doomed path of competing to iPhone et al, like N9	22:08
DocScrutinizer05	Win7Mac: oh?	22:08
DocScrutinizer05	android isn't open? ;-P	22:09
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Win7Mac	not for me	22:09
DocScrutinizer05	I think android is just as open as maemo, just that android is way more clusterfscked	22:09
Win7Mac	and it's googlefsckedup	22:10
DocScrutinizer05	maybe comparable to HARM	22:10
DocScrutinizer05	meh, and fremantle has cherry and nokia-mail and ovi and all the closed blobs core apps from Nokia	22:11
ShadowJK	I was under the impression that LG Nexus 4 isn't totally impossible to swap out OS on, or whatever the currrent hacker favourite device for this is, the ones they use to host libhybris+Ubuntu or libhybris+Mer/Sailfish on..	22:11
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DocScrutinizer05	so I honestly can't say maemo is more open than android	22:11
discopig	ubuntu touch is interesting	22:12
discopig	on a device with a keyboard and Mir running, it would be a decent maemo alternative	22:12
DocScrutinizer05	well, "touch" it then. (ASCNR)	22:12
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DocScrutinizer05	"unrelated" http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/28/plasma-desktopfx3743.png :-)	22:17
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DocScrutinizer05	well, maybe related to "USB not falling off"	22:18
kerio	aw dammit i was at my aunt's today, and she has one of those usb otg adapters that fits inside the n900	22:18
kerio	forgot to steal it	22:18
GeneralAntilles	Well, there aren't any N900 formfactor devices out there.	22:20
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: "Android" the core project/OS seems more open than Maemo from what i can tell... i mean, you can take a 100% open thing and get it to run on something as long as you know how to link it to the hardware. Maemo... i guess there's a free/non-free distinction in the repos, but	22:20
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DocScrutinizer05	GeneralAntilles: tbh I'd happily gone for N810 formfactor, if it was any feasible	22:22
SpeedEvil	LjL-Alps: There are major structural issues. You end up with an android device, that there is no way to run linux apps on	22:23
SpeedEvil	In general	22:24
DocScrutinizer05	hi SpeedEvil	22:24
SpeedEvil	hi	22:24
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to eventually abuse SpeedEvil and his expertise for QA and evaluation of GTA04		22:26
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LjL-Alps	SpeedEvil: that's true but that's different from openness of the code... also, some could argue "general" linux apps aren't really any good to run on a phone. i'd say if porting them is easy, though, that's a big plus.	22:28
DocScrutinizer05	LjL-Alps: depends	22:28
SpeedEvil	LjL-Alps: To a degree - true.	22:28
SpeedEvil	LjL-Alps: the problem arises when - for example - you want to add an authentication mode to the wifi config.	22:29
SpeedEvil	or setup iptables	22:29
SpeedEvil	Or ...	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	a really decently written x11 app should run on embedded just fine	22:29
DocScrutinizer05	with only very minor tweaks	22:29
SpeedEvil	there is a significant problem with a consistent UI	22:30
DocScrutinizer05	alas there's much bulls**t out there	22:30
LjL-Alps	SpeedEvil, it's just not really Linux in any way other than being technically running a Linux kernel :P	22:30
SpeedEvil	But android isn't really great at that anyway	22:30
SpeedEvil	LjL-Alps: quite	22:30
LjL-Alps	SpeedEvil: but other OS's are not Linux but are still open OS's, is all i'm saying	22:30
DocScrutinizer05	LjL-Alps: (running linux kernel) not even that	22:31
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SpeedEvil	Android is better than ios - sure.	22:31
LjL-Alps	eh i wasn't talking about open OS's	22:31
SpeedEvil	Also - the powersaving is very much 'Oh - powersaving is too complex for app writers'	22:31
LjL-Alps	err yes i was	22:31
LjL-Alps	i wasn't talking about iOS	22:31
DocScrutinizer05	in my book android kernel is as much linux as mach is	22:31
SpeedEvil	maemos approach to powersaving was probably sane.	22:32
DocScrutinizer05	and userland... :-x don't get me started	22:32
LjL-Alps	SpeedEvil: what was maemo's approach?	22:32
SpeedEvil	needed better tools though	22:32
kerio	LjL-Alps: linux desktop	22:32
SpeedEvil	LjL-Alps: It's the app writers problem.	22:32
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LjL-Alps	SpeedEvil: hmm.	22:32
DocScrutinizer05	LjL-Alps: maemo approach is "no app shall hog cpu or any other resource for no good reason. When nothing to do: SLEEP!"	22:33
SpeedEvil	This leads to silly stuff on android like persistant apps needing a notification active all the time	22:33
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LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: i personally think this is something (among other things, security-related ones for instance) that on mobile OS's really begs to be kept under control by the OS, not just relied on application writer's goodwill	22:34
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DocScrutinizer05	meh	22:34
ShadowJK	You end up with stupid situations, like internet radios that pause if you switch away from the browser tab or the app	22:35
dos1	on mass-market devices with commercial application stores with loads and loads of shit in them that's good approach	22:35
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: ack	22:35
dos1	on device you own and you want to control (just like your PC) it sucks	22:35
korhojoa	on maemo it works because devs know this	22:35
DocScrutinizer05	some do ;-P	22:35
LjL-Alps	SpeedEvil, apps that don't need to persist 100% of the time but can just respawn when there's enough free RAM to don't need that... while on the other hand, if you have something that strictly needs to stay on (because it's a persistent connection to IRC, for example), then in Android UI's situation, it makes total sense to not let the user be unaware of it	22:35
kerio	korhojoa: the solution is not to make the OS dumber, it's to make the devs smarter	22:36
kerio	"when there's enough free ram"	22:36
korhojoa	for android there are so many people doing work that you eventually end up with someone making a shitty but popular application	22:36
kerio	there's never enough free ram	22:36
kerio	if you reduce ram usage, you have more ram for caching	22:36
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korhojoa	my busdriver is watching tv series while waiting at the stop	22:37
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korhojoa	has anyone figured out a way to make the n900 have more ram? i mean, has anyone even attempted it?	22:37
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korhojoa	that would probably require at least a new pcb, if not soc	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	maemo handles low RAM amazingly well. Watch OOM in cooperation with HD kick out all the preloaded apps to recalim RAM	22:38
LjL-Alps	well, i like Maemo as a Linux user who doesn't like having restrictions put on his computers (i'd like it much more if it were actually all open source, of course), but i just don't see how Maemo could have scaled to a mass market. while Android clearly has.	22:38
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: what's HD?	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	and restart them as soon as you add that swap partition ;-)	22:38
DocScrutinizer05	hildon desktop	22:38
kerio	korhojoa: the closest thing is cssu-thumb	22:38
kerio	and that's pretty fucking far	22:39
korhojoa	yeah, already running that	22:39
ShadowJK	Oh, one of the popular office applications for android don't have persistent state, so if you for example switch to browser to look something up, ad then switch back to your spreadsheet, there's a risk that instead of getting the spreadsheet back you see the splash loading screen of the office app, and have lost everything since last save	22:39
korhojoa	it's pretty amazing though that they recompiled most of the stuff in thumb	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	korhojoa: you ever heard of Neo900?	22:39
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142	22:39
korhojoa	no, what's that?	22:39
LjL-Alps	ShadowJK: yeah i don't like that about Android - i shouldn't really be the app's job to handle persistence in my opinion. freeze the app and store its data into flash, if you want, but do it yourself (you - the OS)	22:39
SpeedEvil	korhojoa: it is in principle qutite possible to add ram - unfortunately impractical for several reasons.	22:39
LjL-Alps	ShadowJK: (which is called "swap", methinks)	22:40
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LjL-Alps	s/i shouldn't/it shouldn't/	22:40
dos1	add Neo900 to the topic ;)	22:40
DocScrutinizer05	the new running gag on #maemo: "WUT? you haven't heard of Neo900?!? BWAHAHAHA" ;-D	22:40
korhojoa	SpeedEvil: yeah, well, that's what i meant. someone should tell the chinese clone mfgrs to slap at least 1g of ram in it	22:40
LjL-Alps	heh	22:40
discopig	lol	22:41
LjL-Alps	are the chinese clones actually Maemo-compatible?	22:41
DocScrutinizer05	nooo waaaay dude	22:41
discopig	the chinese n900's are refurbs	22:41
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discopig	they just take pieces from different devices	22:41
discopig	different n900's i mean	22:41
LjL-Alps	back when i was shopping for an N900 three years ago (and then decided for a Milestone instead), there were many things that looked like N900's but weren't really	22:41
DocScrutinizer05	that's new original ones, not clones	22:41
LjL-Alps	i remember reading websites that explained what to look for in the pictures to recognize genuine N900s	22:41
korhojoa	so does neo900 have anything to do with the openmoko stuff?	22:41
dos1	discopig: there are also clearly fake ones	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	clones use that notorious dual-SIM chipset with 8MB RAM	22:42
discopig	yeah but those dont run maemo	22:42
dos1	like dual-sim n900	22:42
discopig	from what i gathred	22:42
discopig	gathered	22:42
dos1	of course don't	22:42
LjL-Alps	right that's what i was asking	22:42
LjL-Alps	are "refurbs" generally bad?	22:42
DocScrutinizer05	shrug	22:43
DocScrutinizer05	depends, I guess	22:43
DocScrutinizer05	you could catch a lemon	22:43
korhojoa	i had a refurb for 2 weeks, then the microusb tore off	22:43
DocScrutinizer05	^^^	22:43
LjL-Alps	ouch	22:43
dos1	if you can get one for $10, then go for it ;)	22:43
LjL-Alps	but then again, the usb is a weak point for any N900	22:43
LjL-Alps	dos1: heh	22:43
LjL-Alps	well no i don't fancy getting another N900 right now, i'm happy to have gotten one, but that's enough	22:44
DocScrutinizer05	LjL-Alps: not for every	22:44
korhojoa	i was really nice to my refurb too, because my first one lost its port one morning when unplugging it from the charger	22:44
DocScrutinizer05	I know of N900 that rather break in two halfs than USB falling out	22:44
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LjL-Alps	korhojoa: i'm using some other charger and cable with mine because this cable has the "hooks" worn out so it basically slides in and out with no force	22:45
LjL-Alps	... slides in and out with no force	22:45
discopig	DocScrutinizer05, was there any confirmed hw revision to have usb port fixed?	22:45
discopig	like 2101, 2102, 2204, etc	22:45
DocScrutinizer05	no	22:45
korhojoa	unfortunately	22:45
DocScrutinizer05	aiui they initially had problems with reflow process	22:45
LjL-Alps	DocScrutinizer05: so the other thing you were saying - should i tread lightly on my keyboard, because otherwise i'll break the modem?	22:45
DocScrutinizer05	yes	22:46
discopig	my usb port is coming loose and i had filed the teeth on my charger	22:46
korhojoa	wat, typing hard breaks the gsm modem?	22:46
discopig	so it just slid in and out effortlessly	22:46
LjL-Alps	any keys/areas particularly affected?	22:46
discopig	and it still got loose enough to not work anymore	22:46
DocScrutinizer05	korhojoa: that's what I think, yes	22:46
korhojoa	nice	22:46
DocScrutinizer05	(areas) well those next to the modem chipset	22:47
discopig	i guess soldering it in place is the only thing to do	22:47
DocScrutinizer05	discopig: :nod:	22:47
discopig	not too hard to do either	22:47
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer05: makes sense - i did IRC for a couple of weeks from my phone, and it did die. Though that's a fairly poor sample size	22:47
* LjL-Alps refrains from asking DocScrutinizer05 which ones those are, looks for N900 schematics online		22:47
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DocScrutinizer05	fine boy!	22:48
DocScrutinizer05	otherwise I had to do, and I'm lazy (now)	22:48
DocScrutinizer05	the story is dirt simply: you press hard on kbd -> PCB bends -> huge modem chip solderballs snapp open	22:49
discopig	that is bad design	22:49
DocScrutinizer05	it actually is	22:50
SpeedEvil	It's the sort of issue that's hard to tell if it will or won't be an issue.	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	and we have to make sure we don't do same mistake on Neo900	22:50
discopig	yeah	22:50
SpeedEvil	There is - almost - no way to tell if that sort of thing will or won't be a problem.	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	yep	22:50
SpeedEvil	Stupid stuff like the exact alloy of the solder balls makes a difference.	22:50
SpeedEvil	And if you use a 0.6 or 0.8mm thick PcB	22:51
DocScrutinizer05	but you can plan for an optimized compinent üplacement, gaps in PCB, and support posts at the relevant places (the latter not if you're using a ready built case like we do on Neo900)	22:52
SpeedEvil	Quite.	22:52
SpeedEvil	if you know that the keyboard forces are likely to be an issue - not the earphone jack	22:52
DocScrutinizer05	good my typing sucks. Might it be that cat that stomps over my kbd while I type?	22:52
SpeedEvil	seems likely.	22:52
DocScrutinizer05	luckily the earphone jack is not very likely to bring any excessive forces onto N900 PCB. Alas that receptacle component might be terribly hard to source	22:54
discopig	yeah	22:54
DocScrutinizer05	might order 300 directly from Nokia care ;-D	22:54
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LjL-Alps	i'm not sure i'd personally care much about binary compatibility with the Neo900... what software are people really using that's closed source or not in the repos?	22:56
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SpeedEvil	angry birds?	22:58
LjL-Alps	i saw some angry birds today, they almost bit me	22:58
LjL-Alps	i wouldn't play with them	22:58
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DocScrutinizer05	mere techpr0n: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/08/28/plasma-desktopJS3743.png you really all should ready the very fine GTA04 System Manual ( http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/downloads/37/ ) to get the catch what philosophy the Neo900 is based on	23:00
DocScrutinizer05	s/ready/read/.	23:00
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DocScrutinizer05	dialer?	23:01
DocScrutinizer05	and as long as nobody goes all the way to recompile all of them, all the apps from extras-*	23:02
LjL-Alps	aren't the apps in extras* compiled by some automated build system maemo.org has?	23:03
DocScrutinizer05	for your reference and backround info: fremantle/N900 cmdline tools run on N9/HARM - just copy and done you are	23:03
LjL-Alps	fancy	23:03
DocScrutinizer05	sure, but do you expect such build system to compile them all without any troubles to some new altered OS?	23:04
LjL-Alps	well i guess that depends on whether it isn't binary compatible for some trivial reasons or for some more profound ones, i guess	23:04
LjL-Alps	i think i said i guess twice	23:04
DocScrutinizer05	and then there are dependencies to possibly closed blob binaries that come with Nokia core fremantle	23:04
LjL-Alps	so i must not feel too sure	23:04
LjL-Alps	hmm	23:05
DocScrutinizer05	and what will you do with your "where's next McD" app when liblocation is a blob and doesn't run on new platform?	23:06
LjL-Alps	you're right, tragic	23:06
DocScrutinizer05	no, a challenge	23:07
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DocScrutinizer05	we're quite confident we can build a hw that allows fremantle porting task force to catch up the remaining incompatibilities in kernel/driver space and patch them out, so liblocation will run as usual	23:09
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DocScrutinizer05	and that's what we are aiming at	23:09
DocScrutinizer05	thus some spec bumps may be fine, while others are a nogo	23:10
korhojoa	quad-core 2,5ghz omap4?	23:10
DocScrutinizer05	depends on whether you can cope with them in kernel/diver/systemland in a way so that userland doesn't notice or doesn't care	23:11
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LjL-Alps	you mean big.LITTLE eith-core surely, korhojoa?	23:11
LjL-Alps	eight*	23:11
korhojoa	octocore huh	23:11
DocScrutinizer05	quadcore maybe no problem (though that's really hard to tell), OMAP4 most likely no way, since it's too different to OMAP3 I guess	23:11
LjL-Alps	call it what you want, it has eight cores	23:11
korhojoa	welp, lets just put a via x86 in there	23:12
DocScrutinizer05	dunno if kernel is multicore-safe	23:12
dos1	x86 and OMAP3 ARM emulator	23:13
DocScrutinizer05	and if all userland is	23:13
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DocScrutinizer05	cray with x86 emu running ARM qemu	23:14
dos1	DocScrutinizer05: in userland it should be quite easy to limit some process to one core, shouldn't it?	23:14
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DocScrutinizer05	yep	23:14
DocScrutinizer05	but it _should_ not even be needed	23:14
DocScrutinizer05	if it is needed then you already have a problem since you don't know about the fact	23:15
* DocScrutinizer05 curses TI-OMAP PoP specs which are like 8 different flavors, and you simply can't search for available PoP MCP in google		23:22
DocScrutinizer05	seems there's not even a 1GB RAM-only PoP available	23:23
DocScrutinizer05	I honestly wonder if we could go for fast RAM-based pseudo-eMMC swap	23:24
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korhojoa	do you guys use compressed swap?	23:24
freemangordon	hmm, Harmattan openssl contains so-called no_check_self_signed.patch which is missing in maemo. /me is going to try if that will solve our supl.nokia.com issue	23:24
DocScrutinizer05	shouldn't be too hard to implement, given we can find some chip with a similar bus	23:24
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korhojoa	or whatever it is where you can compress memory instead of swapping it	23:24
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DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: rather expect some expired certs. Mind you, this is Nokia!	23:25
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer05: IIRC pin numbers helped	23:25
SpeedEvil	pop ram 196 or whatever	23:25
korhojoa	it bothers me that apt-get frequently gives you a 'will not be installed' error when you try to install stuff that has nokia dependencies	23:25
DocScrutinizer05	yep, just I'm honestly too :-S to touch that 3000++ pp TRM of DM3730	23:26
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: I checked the certificate chain, we are missing one intermediate certificate, but that should not be a problem IMO. And adding it doesn;t solve the problem	23:26
DocScrutinizer05	to find out what poincount the PoP interface actually has	23:26
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DocScrutinizer05	then what's the problem after you added it?	23:27
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: i bet this patch will fix it ;)	23:27
DocScrutinizer05	go ahead :-)	23:27
DocScrutinizer05	we got CSSU for a reason ;-D	23:27
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: this is not Nokia patch http://cvs.openssl.org/chngview?cn=18260	23:28
DocScrutinizer05	hm?	23:28
DocScrutinizer05	how is that relevant?	23:28
freemangordon	oh, wait, we're on 0.9.8n so it should be there :(	23:29
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: nevermind	23:29
DocScrutinizer05	dang	23:29
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: make sure you always use IP only, when testing!	23:29
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freemangordon	why?	23:30
DocScrutinizer05	friggin geo-IP introduces geissenbug	23:30
DocScrutinizer05	heiseenbug even	23:30
DocScrutinizer05	MEH!	23:30
Apic	Moo	23:30
* DocScrutinizer05 screams and runs		23:30
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DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: and even when using IP, you still will run into random behaviour of the akamai server farm boxen. We seen this just so often on maemo repos	23:31
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: general rule: don't take anything for granted! analyze every single test down to the protocol trace level	23:32
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DocScrutinizer05	ethereal is your friend	23:32
freemangordon	well, I trust FF to be able to verify the certificate chain :)	23:33
DocScrutinizer05	I might even bet is has dissectors for supl	23:33
freemangordon	there are 2 certs on top for supl.nokia.com cert - 1 intermediate and 1 root	23:34
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freemangordon	we have the root cert, the intermediate one is missing	23:34
DocScrutinizer05	I wouldn't be surprised if they are messed up due to CNAME	23:34
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Tekk_	Is there any particular trick to getting a microsd card into the n900? I just got one today(bit late to the party, I know :P) and it seems like the metal bit won't quite go down all the way	23:35
freemangordon	no, the error is "Verification failed: self signed certificate"	23:35
DocScrutinizer05	Tekk_: be careful not to bend the holder	23:35
Tekk_	DocScrutinizer05: that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid	23:35
DocScrutinizer05	Tekk_: micro? or usual mini?	23:36
freemangordon	and cmcli is refusing to give any more details	23:36
Tekk_	microsd. does it expect mini	23:36
Tekk_	?	23:36
DocScrutinizer05	ooh sorry	23:36
DocScrutinizer05	mixed up SD and SIM	23:36
Tekk_	ah	23:36
DocScrutinizer05	nah, the uSD usually fits easily	23:36
DocScrutinizer05	you just slide it in to full stop	23:37
Tekk_	got it	23:37
Tekk_	I was doing it wrong :P	23:37
DocScrutinizer05	then it closes almost by itself, you just slide it to lock	23:37
Tekk_	I didn't notice the tabs on the actual metal piece to hold the sd card. I thought that you put the sd card right inside and then brought the metal down over	23:37
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, that's why I said "slide it in"	23:38
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DocScrutinizer05	Tekk_: congrats for the best device you ever owned, and welcome	23:38
Tekk_	DocScrutinizer05: It certainly seems to be that so far :)	23:39
DocScrutinizer05	take care about your USB!	23:39
DocScrutinizer05	it's flimsy	23:39
Tekk_	actually my younger brother looked over my my shoulder when I was playing around with it a bit and went "Whoa, that's like a real computer! That's the best phone ever"	23:39
DocScrutinizer05	hehe, and damn he been right, no?	23:40
Tekk_	seems that way so far, at least	23:40
DocScrutinizer05	conect it to your TV to really make him go :-O	23:40
Tekk_	you can do that?	23:40
DocScrutinizer05	sure	23:40
Tekk_	I'd probably want lxde first, though	23:40
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DocScrutinizer05	Tekk_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ ;-D	23:41
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Tekk_	second. I've already managed to misplace my stylus	23:42
DocScrutinizer05	~hostmode	23:42
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ, or see ~hostmode-powered	23:42
Win7Mac	I just found a flaw in the laws for an e.V.: all board members have to be available in the EU	23:43
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DocScrutinizer05	toldya?	23:46
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DocScrutinizer05	I really want to hand this italian guy a beer for his awesome presentation of hostmode as well as AV	23:48
DocScrutinizer05	though probably he will owe me two for hostmode ;-P	23:48
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Win7Mac	so the situation shows as: elect a new, all-EU-board	23:50
Sicelo	:(	23:50
Win7Mac	also I've found that it's really a long-term job for directors, not good to change every year	23:53
Win7Mac	sorry, that new, all-EU-board must not be elected, we can just do it	23:54
Tekk_	and people think that socks are bad with just disappearing...	23:56
Win7Mac	as we're basically dropping HiFo in PA	23:56
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Win7Mac	Tekk_: ?	23:58
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Tekk_	Win7Mac: I lost my stylus before I even had my n900 for 2 hours :P	23:59
Tekk_	found it now though	23:59

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