IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-08-28

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MohammadAGA month into android mod development made me miss the days of maemo00:11
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RiDMohammadAG what did you do00:22
MohammadAGA lot of stuff00:22
RiDi do a lot of stuff too00:22
MohammadAGBut I hit a brick wall that reminded me of maemo's awesome devs00:23
MohammadAGThe likes of DocScrutinizer05 and jacekowski00:23
DocScrutinizer05hi moh00:23
RiDwelcome back00:24
MohammadAGI feel like the Android community doesnt have one single qualified engineer00:24
RiDi salute you00:24
MohammadAGHi DocScrutinizer0500:24
MohammadAGRiD heard of Xposed?00:24
RiDi am a qualified engineer, though only in my mind00:24
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: see00:24
RiDoh yeah, i heard it sucks00:24
RiDjoke, i just googled it and i'm reading the xda topic00:24
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders how a brick wall can remind MohammadAG about him00:25
DocScrutinizer05I know i'm stubborn, but....00:25
RiDsounds interesting00:25
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 I remember you mentioned eMMC hardware locks once00:25
MohammadAGRiD it is, android modding only got interesting after it00:26
RiDmy tablet doesnt have much support anyways00:26
MohammadAGIts like the only sane project related to mods on android00:26
MohammadAGMuch support for what?00:26
MohammadAGThe framework runs on any 4.0.3+ device00:27
RiDwell, there's obviously more roms and tweaks and etc for a nexus device00:27
MohammadAGThats where you come in00:27
RiDeh me?00:27
MohammadAGYeah you00:27
RiDwhat did i do00:28
RiDi'm innocent00:28
MohammadAGYou make the mods00:28
RiDHAH good grief00:28
RiDthough i'd love to have a go at the theming00:28
MohammadAGThe S4 had no mods besides one00:28
MohammadAGI kind of made 5-8 mods00:28
MohammadAGOne of which I'm very proud of00:29
RiDi'm checking your profile now00:29
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RiDwhat's the one you are proud of?00:30
RiDsorry i mean very proud*00:30
RiDwoah, that cover00:31
MohammadAGDisclaimer: I didn't know java when I started on Android00:31
RiDsounds really cool, any pic of it running?00:31
RiDnvm i found one00:31
* DocScrutinizer05 unknots his tongue00:32
MohammadAGUnlisted videos00:32
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MohammadAGErr video,  till I get a proper camera00:32
RiDdon't you have your N900?00:32
MohammadAGI do, but no tripod for that00:32
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RiDthere's no need for a tripod00:32
RiDi know black magic00:33
MohammadAGThere is when you're making a promotional video for google play :p00:33
RiDget a glass table and put the phone lying on it, with camera open00:33
MohammadAGReviewers on Android eat you alive00:33
RiD(yeah, that glass better be transparent)00:33
RiDi know right.. they rate apps 1 star because something doesn't work when it's their own fault00:33
RiDand i'm stuck with brazillian reviews (damn you localization, i'm portuguese)00:34
MohammadAGSomeone rated my app 3 stars and said "I haven't used this yet"00:34
MohammadAGThat kind of annoyed me a bit too much00:34
RiDthey're not exactly the brightest reviewers. "too slow on my *insert horribly slow phone*"00:34
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MohammadAGThat's why I supoort 4.0+00:35
RiDoh yeah, death to anything below 4.000:35
RiDamazing how it even survived00:35
MohammadAGWhats more amazing is how android succeeded before 4.000:35
RiDcrap... google play knows what music i like00:35
RiDi didnt download a single thing, but "Popular with Crystal Method listeners", how the hell does google know i like the crystal method00:36
MohammadAGTbh at this point, I'm expecting Google Now to tell me when it's time to take a shit00:36
RiDyes, that's what i mean MohammadAG00:36
RiDit recommended me a fluke album... i have it already00:36
ShadowJKpopular with crystal meth00:36
RiDgoogle play forgot the "The" though00:36
MohammadAGo/ ShadowJK00:36
keriocrystal meth is a lot more popular than the crystal method00:36
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RiDi'll just sit in a corner and cry00:37
LjL-Alpsbooo my N900 seems to have developed a stuck green pixel00:37
kerioLjL-Alps: toggle it00:37
keriotoggle it like fuck00:37
LjL-Alpsduring using SHR, doubt it can cause that though00:37
MohammadAGRiD done any play store apps?00:37
RiDMohammadAG you got some fancy clean icons on your apps! ++00:37
LjL-Alpskerio: is there something handy to achieve taht?00:37
kerioidk if there's something00:37
keriocheck the repos00:37
RiDnah i'm not a developer00:37
SiceloLjL-Alps: able to access SIM or modem in your SHR install?00:38
MohammadAGRiD that's cause I suck at designing so I use clipart from ADT :P00:38
RiDi guess the only thing i could do is themes00:38
RiDand i'm actually tempted to do one00:38
DocScrutinizer05LjL-Alps: that#s most likely a bad bit in video RAM00:38
MohammadAGwith xposed?00:38
RiDi've seen some that aren't exactly good looking (not wanting to offend creators) yet they sell quite well00:38
DocScrutinizer05only thing that could _cause_ it is OC00:38
MohammadAGTbh I only consider two apps successful00:38
LjL-AlpsSicelo, i'm afraid i haven't gotten there yet (SIM isn't in the phone). i've spent the past hours reinstalling it several times, sometimes -core sometimes -staging00:39
MohammadAGMy usb mass storage app at 75k downloads and the file beam one00:39
LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: whoops. i do overclock to 850... no idea what sort of clock SHR uses, though00:39
RiDspeaking of that usb mass storage app00:39
MohammadAG100 points for nokia for making the N9 support Android's protocol00:39
RiDits compatible with my tablet yet my tablet already supports it natively00:39
DocScrutinizer05SHR doesn't use clocks I think00:39
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 so, remember the ro mmc lock?00:39
DocScrutinizer05it most likely will run the device as recommended00:40
MohammadAGRiD Samsung?00:40
LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: i see00:40
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: not really, only for NAND00:40
RiDGalaxy Tab 10.1, 3G. (GT-P7500)00:40
RiDso i guess the wi-fi only (7510) can also install it00:40
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 same thing?00:40
DocScrutinizer05well, kinda00:40
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MohammadAGThe hardware enforces a lock set somewherr by kernel or bootloader00:40
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kerioanyway, i still can't wifi in my home00:40
DocScrutinizer05on NAND there is such thing like write-protect bits00:40
MohammadAGAnd only a power cycle allows an unlock00:41
DocScrutinizer05for NAND erase pages usually00:41
MohammadAGRiD it should support most samsung devices that arent nexii :)00:41
DocScrutinizer05on N9 it seems NAND has even read lock00:41
MohammadAGIf you have a flash try adjustable torch00:41
DocScrutinizer05and allegedly the locks can't get reset00:41
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 I think my S4 has that too00:41
RiDyeah but the tablet already natively supports it, so there's no need00:41
RiDoh wait no00:42
DocScrutinizer05which SoC?00:42
MohammadAGIts like I asked for aegis's cousin00:42
RiDi've been misreading it all time00:42
RiDi'm dumb, sorry00:42
MohammadAGARM's TrustZone00:42
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 exynos00:42
RiDBut still, makes no sense. Galaxy Tab 10.1 does not support microSD00:42
RiDi'm nagging you00:42
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MohammadAGExynos 5140 I think00:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: neo900 feature request: aegis00:43
MohammadAGRiD whaa?00:43
DocScrutinizer05I dunno exynos by heart but when it's trustzone then yes, likely same shit as in N900:43
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 worse00:43
DocScrutinizer05~shoot kerio00:43
* infobot shoots kerio in the foot with a glue gun!00:43
RiD"this will not work with your internal memory due to hardware and software limitations."00:43
MohammadAGThere's this thing in android called screen mirroring00:43
keriowe will never attract developers without strong drm capabilities!00:43
MohammadAGIt uses miracast00:43
RiDbut on the tablet, there's nothing but internal memory00:43
RiDsee what i mean?00:43
* RiD runs00:43
MohammadAGSamsung decided to make their own implementation00:43
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MohammadAGRiD then /sdcard is a separate partition :)00:43
MohammadAGTheir implementation uses HDCP00:44
RiDthen i guess i could use that :O00:44
RiDim gonna try it right now00:44
RiDi hate MTP to its heart00:44
RiDhorrible piece of bleep00:44
MohammadAGOh wait wait wait00:44
DocScrutinizer05~kill kerio00:44
* infobot shoots a inverse anti-quark gun at kerio00:44
MohammadAGI thought you said it worked00:44
RiDi'll try it anyways00:44
MohammadAGIt wont work unless your /sdcard is a separate partition00:45
RiDif it doesnt work i'll give you 1 star don't worry00:45
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MohammadAGSo DocScrutinizer05, their tries to open TrustZone, and fails if you have ever flashed the device with any other kernel00:45
kerioso you lose screen mirroring permanently?00:45
MohammadAGRiD :@00:45
RiD1 star, and review will say: i haven't even opened it yet00:46
keriowhat's the big deal though? can't you just add a fake trustzone?00:46
MohammadAGkerio well, on the Note 2 for example, you can reset the flash count and go back to stock so it works again00:46
RiDanyways, what happened to your 900?00:46
MohammadAGAnd here's what reminded of DocScrutinizer0500:46
MohammadAGOn the S4, the partition that stores the flash count has write protection on the hardware level00:47
DocScrutinizer05my famous statement "aegis is a spawn of hell" ?00:47
MohammadAGAnd what sets the write protect flag00:47
MohammadAGSamsung's very own NOLO00:47
MohammadAGTheir own signed bootloader00:47
keriobut samsung is so open00:47
kerioandroid is so open00:47
kerioit's linux, and linux is free00:48
MohammadAGThe only way to reset this write protection is to cut off power to the eMMC00:48
MohammadAGIdk if thats even possible00:48
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MohammadAGkerio stock aosp is open :p00:48
teotwaki_MohammadAG: sup00:48
DocScrutinizer05ooohwait, SD cards are S because they have some shit added that's not found in MMC00:48
kerioanything is possible with a steady hand and a soldering gun00:48
MohammadAGSamsung was awesome up until the S200:49
MohammadAGThen they gave into money and appleism00:49
teotwaki_The Note2 is pretty awesome00:49
keriothey suck at being apple, though00:49
MohammadAGteotwaki_ heyy00:49
keriohell, even apple sucks at being apple lately00:49
DocScrutinizer05I never heard of anything using the "Secure" in SD00:49
MohammadAGNothing much, just stabbing myself at how I bought a 100 buck adapter for nothing00:49
kerioDocScrutinizer05: windows phone used the "secure" in SD00:49
DocScrutinizer05but it might well be what you're running into here00:49
kerioand everyone went crazy because nobody had any idea of what was going on00:49
MohammadAGkerio apple still allows you to do the stuff you always did while jailbroken00:50
RiDok going to try it now00:50
RiDget ready for 1 star00:50
MohammadAGteotwaki_ it is00:50
RiD"doesn't work it requires cable"00:50
MohammadAGI regret trading it for the S400:50
keriowhich application is this?00:50
MohammadAGRiD I swear I'll be under your bed if I get that 1 star00:50
DocScrutinizer05oooh hi teotwaki_00:51
RiDS3C Gadget not available in your kernel! Application disabled00:51
RiDsorry, that's 1 star from me00:51
teotwaki_I suffer brain overload00:51
MohammadAGBut there's hope, there's a leaked engineering bootloader that doesnt set the write protect flag00:51
teotwaki_I've dumped half the haproxy and whole nginx documentations in my head00:52
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kerioRiD: "instructions unclear, penis stuck in SIM slot"00:52
RiDwhat XD00:52
kerioteotwaki_: is there any reason why there's no good, non-russian documentation for nginx anywhere?00:52
RiDthat has got to be small00:52
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki_: seen latest madness?00:53
kerioRiD: nope, that's why it got stuck00:53
teotwaki_DocScrutinizer05: nope?00:53
RiDi reviewed it00:53
teotwaki_kerio: source code is the best documentation.00:53
RiDyou got a little bit more of the star now00:53
MohammadAGBtw about that00:54
MohammadAGHow are you planning to get funding?00:54
kerioRiD: link to the review00:54
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: unclear yet, we might start a fundraiser00:54
teotwaki_DocScrutinizer05: funky00:55
kerioDocScrutinizer05: let's call it the ubuntu neo90000:55
kerioand run a kickstarter00:55
DocScrutinizer05for now we want to see if any chances for this thing to fly00:55
MohammadAGAwww thanks RiD00:55
teotwaki_DocScrutinizer05: dual core or not?00:55
MohammadAGkerio the edgy 900000:55
DocScrutinizer05********************************* take a few of these stars00:55
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki_: DM373000:55
* kerio grabs ***00:55
RiDits not the truth00:55
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki_: not aimed at high end bleeding edge but at N900 compatibility00:56
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MohammadAGHow's the sailfish device going00:57
teotwaki_price range? (ballpark)00:57
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 ask Ballmer for funding00:57
MohammadAGYens I hope :p00:57
teotwaki_I do realise that you don't have economy of scale and stuff00:57
DocScrutinizer05sure, we're not Samsung, we can't get the prices they get00:57
MohammadAGSamsung doesnt get prices00:58
teotwaki_but the original n900 went for 200euro less00:58
MohammadAGThey make their own cpu00:58
MohammadAGTheir own memory00:58
RiDew i should change my google+ icon00:58
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: sure, we're not Samsung, we can't get the offers they get00:58
MohammadAGTheir own display00:58
MohammadAGThe camera's a Sony though00:58
keriolet's make our own cpu, memory and display!00:59
keriothat's cheap right00:59
RiDoh right00:59
teotwaki_DocScrutinizer05: good luck. Hope it works out.00:59
RiDi know how google knows what music i like... duh00:59
RiDyoutube... duh00:59
DocScrutinizer05we'll see00:59
kerioteotwaki_: will you buy like 50 of those?00:59
MohammadAGNokia's marketing is getting better btw
teotwaki_kerio: the Neo900?00:59
teotwaki_kerio: doubt I'll buy even one, honestly.01:00
MohammadAGThey kind of dissed every other manufacturer01:00
teotwaki_my n900 still works well01:00
RiDok i thank google already01:00
RiDit helped me find an awesome artist01:00
kerioyeah but the neo900 is going to be actually viable01:00
keriolike, it will have ram01:00
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RiDand it'll work01:00
teotwaki_1GB of RAM?01:00
RiDwoah i fell in love with celldweller already01:01
kerio32gb of ram!01:01
DocScrutinizer05OMAP3 has hard limit at 512MB01:01
MohammadAGI still like how a stock N900 multitasks better than a stock S301:01
kerioDocScrutinizer05: really? :o01:01
kerioso we can't get to 1gb?01:01
MohammadAG256mb on n900 vs 1gb on s301:01
keriothat sucks01:01
RiDMohammadAG you have not yet answered my question (or i didn't read it), do you still own a n90001:01
keriocan we get some really, really fast swap?01:01
RiDalso, some s3 have 2gb01:01
RiDdepends on the variant you get01:01
MohammadAGRiD yes01:01
RiDnice, is it all broken01:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: maybe01:02
teotwaki_I guess Moore's law doesn't apply to Harmattan01:02
MohammadAGNope, still in good condition01:02
teotwaki_2009: 256MB RAM. 2014: 512MB RAM.01:02
MohammadAGRiD 9505 yes01:02
MohammadAGErr 930501:02
RiDteotwaki harmattan?01:03
RiDthat'd be 1GB01:03
DocScrutinizer05teotwaki_: I doubt any OMAP3 will get sold in 201401:03
MohammadAGMeanwhile, fast forward to september 4th01:03
MohammadAGSamsung will unveil the new Note 3 with 3GBs of RAM01:03
RiDdo you still use your n900?01:03
DocScrutinizer05TI will start to roll out omap5 in 201401:03
MohammadAGAnd it'll still lag01:03
RiDNote 4 will have 4 GB01:03
RiDNote 5 will have... 501:03
DocScrutinizer05or they already did01:03
MohammadAGRiD not much tbh01:03
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RiDi understand, i guess you prefer to browse the web on your s301:04
RiDby a far margin01:04
MohammadAGWhen it comes to actual usage I still use my N9 a lot01:04
MohammadAGRiD S401:04
teotwaki_I use a Wiko...01:04
RiDoh s401:04
MohammadAGThe S3 was an abomination01:04
RiDhow so?01:04
MohammadAGSlow as fuck01:04
teotwaki_1GB of RAM, dual core 1Ghz CPU, 5inch screen... 200euros.01:04
MohammadAG1GB of ram wasnt enough01:04
MohammadAGAt startup you'd have about 200mbs of free ram01:05
DocScrutinizer05now what?01:05
MohammadAGPlus 200 reserved for hardware01:05
RiDah touchwiz01:05
MohammadAGSo you get 600+ /800 used01:05
MohammadAGThe 200 are reserved by kernel01:05
MohammadAGWith the S4 they did the same mistake, albeit its not that bad here01:05
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MohammadAGIt should've had 3GBs so it doesn't lock up when it finds my eyes01:06
MohammadAGTbh, I think my next device will be a Sony01:06
RiDthey have been sounding quite interesting lately01:06
MohammadAGa friend of mine got an xperia Z01:07
RiDand they're not ugly as hell unlike samsung01:07
MohammadAGIts really awesome01:07
teotwaki_then new version, 1.2 Ghz quad core, 1GB of RAM, 5" screen... 205 euros...01:07
RiDwhite samsung s3 looks like some kids toy01:07
MohammadAGMuch faster than the S401:07
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RiDça va ça va01:09
teotwaki_the whole company switched to wiko01:10
RiDwiggly wiko01:10
teotwaki_RiD: you bore me. Your brain seems wiggly.01:11
RiDit is01:11
HurrianMohammadAG: the waterproofing is nice.01:12
MohammadAGHurrian everything about it is nice01:16
MohammadAGI'd trade my S4 for one any day01:16
MohammadAGOr the rumored Z101:16
HurrianMohammadAG: only complaint is the non-removable battery but meh01:16
MohammadAGThe only time I remove my battery is when thr phone gets stuck or too hot01:17
MohammadAGI have an external portable charger01:17
HurrianI'm waiting for the Honami.01:17
MohammadAGI'm considering it01:18
MohammadAGAlthough the S4 was a setback in terms of cash01:18
jon_yhow do you replace non-removable battery?01:18
Hurrianbeen due for an upgrade now, and get the Z101:18
jon_yhmm, nvm01:18
jon_ysorry, I was thinking about the neo90001:19
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RiDwhat would you do if the phone gets stuck but you cant take the battery out01:22
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jon_yhopefully you can hard reset by holding down a button somewhere?01:24
RiDwhat if you can't01:25
jon_yhmm, how does that work if it is all glass?01:25
RiDcaptcha "hold your horses" well that's new01:26
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Win7MacDocScrutinizer05: for a sample N900 for the Neo900, here's a device donation:
RiDhe should have had donated to me01:54
Win7Macregarding community donations to HiFo for this project: sure, why not. My concerns were: where does it start, where does it end? We might be able to fund the prototypes, but are those donations meant for that?01:54
DocScrutinizer05GolDeliCo won't accept donations from HiFo for the prototypes, I guess01:56
Win7Macre yesterdays discussion...01:57
DocScrutinizer05when any community member wants to donate to Neo900, we will come up with a way to donate directly to the involved guys01:57
Win7Macbuy one and pay it from HiFo donations01:57
DocScrutinizer05that's a different thing01:58
DocScrutinizer05we're maemo community, we basically 'own' the N90001:58
Win7Maci really love this01:59
DocScrutinizer05Nokia used to hand out devices to devels01:59
DocScrutinizer05always been duty of council01:59
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles send several to me :-)01:59
Win7Macoh, BTW, there's no real place for a council in an e.V....02:00
DocScrutinizer05except when you say so in your vereins-statuten02:00
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Win7Macthat's why I wonder about different voting rights for active members and "irregular" ones in the webpad02:01
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Win7Macwhat would you like to see in that regard?02:02
DocScrutinizer05I'd think that's pretty hard to tell, since it's about voting in Verein (Vorstand etc), _not_ for voting for council that won't change (ever)02:03
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Win7Macso no official status for council in the e.V.?02:04
DocScrutinizer05maybe for a e.V that really only manages the cash for community resp council, it's sane to say that only a very limited number of members can vote02:04
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Win7Maccounilors would have same voting rights as every "irregular member" (community with 3-month-account, dropped karma02:05
DocScrutinizer05official status of council in e.V is "council represents the intentions of community which the e.V. is handling the cash for"02:05
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DocScrutinizer05I don't think council should have more power than other regular full members of e.V.  I however have a hard time figuring that some australian based garage user would vote the Vorstand of a german e.V.02:07
DocScrutinizer05not exactly simple stuff to get it right02:09
Win7MacWe *need* a "Mitgliederversammlung" as an entity. Those can be "active/regular members" (e.g. council) or whole community02:09
DocScrutinizer05it's one thing to found a e.V.  - it's a whole different thing to entangle and link it to maemo community02:10
Win7Macthat's our task right now...02:10
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DocScrutinizer05but honestly, I have little to no remaining capacity in my brain to handle that right now02:10
Win7Macsure, I thought so, just share your basic ideas about it please02:11
DocScrutinizer05I'm available as one of the foundation members, but not much more than that02:11
DocScrutinizer05I also didn't manage to look at that pad yet02:12
DocScrutinizer05and I'm trying to get out for a dinner (6h ago) resp now at least a beer, since some time02:12
Win7MacI just don't wanna see you whine about our new constitution after everything is done ;)02:13
DocScrutinizer05well, isn't that the usual pilitical method to get new laws installed?02:13
Win7Macmight be, I prefer it the smooth way02:14
DocScrutinizer05bring them up at 17:45, in the last meeting before summer holiday02:14
Win7Macapropos meeting, we need one for board02:14
DocScrutinizer05luckily i'm not board02:14
Win7Macenjoy your beer, you deserved it!02:15
DocScrutinizer05I know why I'm unemployed - nobody could pay me for that stuff that I do02:16
kerioDocScrutinizer05: btw, are you just running off of money reserves?02:16
Win7Macthough as treasurer, I don't wanna spend our donations on the Neo900, I'm tempted to donate to your paypal for that project02:18
kerioWin7Mac: do eeet02:19
Win7Macbut I guess you got a bigger idea about that...02:19
kerioDocScrutinizer05: marry an old billionaire widow02:19
keriokill her discretely02:19
keriofund maemo02:20
DocScrutinizer05not yet (bigger idea)02:20
keriosteal all the ubuntu edge money02:21
Win7Mackickstarter and a little press-campaign02:21
Win7Macright now is the perfect time since ubuntu Edge failed02:21
kerio"we're cheaper and more open"02:21
DocScrutinizer05for now I'll happily accept donations to my "maemo" paypal, which has a field "message" to put in a unambiguous order like "use for Neo900"02:22
Win7Macnixie pixel will freak out02:22
DocScrutinizer05anything that comes in without such unambiguous subject will get used for support02:23
DocScrutinizer05aka "on begalf of HiFo"02:23
DocScrutinizer05behalf even02:23
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Win7Mac"the infra"02:24
DocScrutinizer05we're thinking already about kickstarter or sth for prototypes, not buying any actual hardware but a "livestream from the developer's desk"02:24
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DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: right02:25
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Win7Macright way to go, IMHO02:25
Win7Macwith Neo900... that name is just gorgious02:25
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DocScrutinizer05well, first mail from Nikolaus with that idea is ~12h old now02:26
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DocScrutinizer05until we get sth like that done: fundraiser (roof on fire) -> put "Neo900" into message02:27
DocScrutinizer05away fro a beer now. For real02:27
DocScrutinizer05no really I mean it02:28
DocScrutinizer05I'm almost gone02:28
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Win7Macjust... do it!02:28
DocScrutinizer05yeah sure02:28
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DocScrutinizer05I'm doing it02:29
Win7Macright now!02:29
DocScrutinizer05nur noch schnell die welt retten02:29
DocScrutinizer051254587545 mails checken02:29
Win7Macthere'S a german song with those lines...02:30
Win7MacDocScrutinizer05 feels like he's got the world on his shoulders...02:31
Win7Mac*the weight of the world02:31
* Win7Mac pondres what would we do without him?02:32
RiD...that enter key still pressing too early02:33
Win7Macjust sit there, klickin the refresh-button but nothing happens...02:33
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Win7Macand for the Neo900 kickstarter/indiegogo (doesn't really matter) campaign you OFC get full support from HiFo (I say). We definetely should make some concentrated campaign/noise on all channels!02:40
GeneralAntillesIs there a campaign?02:40
Win7Macnot yet02:40
freemangordonhi guys :)02:40
kerioby the way, did someone ever manage to get a real AP with airbase-ng?02:42
Win7MacGA, we need to untangle what we, in future as an e.V., want to keep from actual bylaws02:42
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Win7Macas HiFo02:43
freemangordonkerio: did anyone ever try?02:43
kerioi don't know02:43
kerioi don't know enough about wifi to correctly use that crap02:44
Win7MacGA, and we should have a meeting soon02:45
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Win7Mac~seen GeneralAntilles02:57
infobotgeneralantilles is currently on #maemo #harmattan. Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 16m 9s, last said: 'Ah'.02:57
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Win7Mac<kerio> Win7Mac: do eeet - I deeed...;)03:24
kerioi meant the "use all the HiFo money"03:24
Win7Macno, sorry03:24
Win7Macactually, we don't even have acces to it03:24
GeneralAntillesStupid First Niagara.03:25
Win7Macbut honestly, HiFo donations done so far are *not* for Neo900! so much should be clear, right?!03:28
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GeneralAntillesGotta keep the infra up.03:29
GeneralAntillesHiFi can certainly do some advertising on Neo900's behalf, though.03:30
Win7Macright, HiFo will for sure officially support that project but not financially. Neo900 project should have its own base on kickstarter/indiegogo03:31
Win7Macif you ask me... ;)03:32
Win7Macand I assume it will gather some thousand$$ for sure03:33
GeneralAntillesWe only wish HiFi had the tens of Ks floating around for that.03:36
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* Win7Mac waves gn o/03:57
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DocScrutinizer05had some funny time in my pub. Drunken weird chick04:08
freemangordonso you think you're the only one :D04:09
freemangordonnight doc04:09
DocScrutinizer05I left before it got too embarrassing (not for me)04:11
DocScrutinizer05also the drinks are cheaper and better here at home04:12
freemangordonwhat about girls?04:12
DocScrutinizer05meh, there's ~4 billion of them04:13
DocScrutinizer05hi GA04:14
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess?04:14
DocScrutinizer05I won't tell you about who's in my house. That's private04:15
freemangordonI though we're friends :(04:15
DocScrutinizer05I can tell you though that several of those who are here wouldn't have appreciated when I brought that weird chick here :-)04:16
DocScrutinizer05incl me04:16
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, did the short Maemo vacation treat you OK?04:17
RiDfreemangordon haha i laughed at  in your house? OMG man, what house do you possess?04:17
DocScrutinizer05well, its from -10% to something positive again04:18
RiD-- equals +04:18
GeneralAntillesThat's something.04:18
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hmm? come on, isn't it clear I am kidding you?04:18
DocScrutinizer05then again my medical doctors try to ruin my life04:18
* freemangordon has to work on his english04:19
RiDim satesfed wit my english skels04:19
* DocScrutinizer05 has to work on his british humour04:19
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, you should tell them you're fine and go skiing.04:19
DocScrutinizer05got appointments04:20
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DocScrutinizer05at least highly intriguing technical stuff to check out ;-)04:21
GeneralAntillesGood way to look at it.04:21
* DocScrutinizer05 always wondered how they ramp up those supraconducting magnets04:22
DocScrutinizer05must be several 1000s of ampere in there04:23
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DocScrutinizer05do they use a little motor with a lever and a magnet at the end?04:23
DocScrutinizer05"wind it up" like a spring in a clock?04:24
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robbiethe1stDocScrutinizer05, how do you mean?04:25
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robbiethe1stProbably use a massive electromagnet?04:25
DocScrutinizer05when you got a ring of supraconductor, how do you create a 5000A current flowing thru it causing a several Tesla magnet field?04:26
freemangordonby external magnetic field?04:26
GeneralAntillesMagic, duh.04:27
RiDi agree with him ^04:27
DocScrutinizer05well, as soon as that external magnetic field collapses, it will eat all the energy from the supra magnet04:27
freemangordonhmm, no04:27
RiDsupra supra... toyota04:27
GeneralAntillesOverrated, get yourself a BRZ or something.04:27
freemangordonbecause have some current nducted inthe superconductor04:28
freemangordon*you have04:28
RiDGeneralAntilles ugly04:28
DocScrutinizer05an external field causes not any current flux in a conductor, it's the cange in field that causes the current. When you ramp up and ramp down a field, the resulting integral in the conductor will be exactly zilch04:29
freemangordonhmm, right04:29
GeneralAntillesRiD, boo.04:29
GeneralAntillesOK, CTS-V.04:29
RiDqyou're going downhill04:30
RiDit kinda looks weird04:30
GeneralAntilles550 HP04:30
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: going to ask wikipedia about it04:30
DocScrutinizer05however spinning a small magnet millions of times around the conductor should build up an ever increasing current04:30
GeneralAntillesRiD, pick your vehicle.04:31
RiDthough if i won the lottery, i'd make the ultimate sleeper GeneralAntilles04:31
DocScrutinizer05that's where "motor, lever, magnet" comes in04:31
RiDsomething truly hideous that makes you think the car sucks04:31
GeneralAntillesRemake the E36 M3 Sedan?04:31
GeneralAntillesA turbo V8 Gen 4 Camry.04:31
freemangordonsure, but the point is that SC should keep the current/magnetic field without any external stuff changed04:32
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GeneralAntillesGen 3 is a little tight in the engine compartment.04:32
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: that's the whole point04:32
RiDyou're the expert04:32
GeneralAntillesWell, I don't disagree with your visual assessment.04:33
freemangordonGeneralAntilles: that is why E46 is the best BMW ever produced04:33
GeneralAntillesfreemangordon, I like the E36s more.04:33
GeneralAntillesAlthough, if you could cram about 500 HP in an 80s VW Rabbit. . . .04:33
freemangordonGeneralAntilles: e6 looks way ore sexy04:34
RiDvw rabbit?04:34
RiDis that the golf mk I04:34
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: a SC "mirrors" whatever magnetic field you "show" to it04:34
GeneralAntillesRiD, yeah.04:34
DocScrutinizer05now think of a magnet pushed thru a SC ring04:34
RiDis that good enough for you?04:34
GeneralAntillesWell, Mk. II04:35
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: sure. But wait, don't they use SC coils actualy?04:35
DocScrutinizer05you return the magnet outside of the ring and push it thru the ring again04:35
DocScrutinizer05then again, and again04:35
RiD8,65 is definitely not bad. he states it's fully street legal too04:35
RiDbut im not into that stuff04:35
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GeneralAntillesI like the rumble of a big American V8.04:36
GeneralAntillesTurbo I-4s just don't have the same visceral feel to them.04:36
freemangordonGeneralAntilles: my old BMW was e36, my current is e46. honestly, e46 is waay better04:36
DocScrutinizer05after doing this 1000 times the SC ring should have a magnetic field of either 1000 or even 2000 times your small magnet you pushed04:36
GeneralAntillesfreemangordon, ah.04:37
GeneralAntillesI have a particular fondness for that mid-90s BMW look.04:37
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I think I know what happens, it is just that I am few jacks ahead right now to think about it04:37
GeneralAntillesI'd really love to find an E30 M3 for a reasonable price.04:37
freemangordonGeneralAntilles: the first bummer I was driving was E21 :P04:38
GeneralAntillesLucky man.04:38
freemangordonGeneralAntilles: well, I am in Europe after all :)04:39
RiDwhat is that supposed to mean04:39
* GeneralAntilles putters around in a Gen 4 I-4 5-speed Camry.04:39
freemangordonRiD: AFAIK GeneralAntilles is in USA04:39
GeneralAntillesUSA USA04:39
RiDoh crap, i forgot about rockbox too04:39
DocScrutinizer05ask sixwheeledbeast04:39
freemangordonme too :P04:40
DocScrutinizer05I was really baffled about what his nick refers to04:40
GeneralAntillesRandom aside: read Wool. It's excellent (as is the rest of the series).04:41
DocScrutinizer05and now I finally get me that cold pizza from yesterday04:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: six wheeled motorcycle or something04:41
freemangordonI remember you were there when he explained04:41
DocScrutinizer05actually a pickup04:42
freemangordonoh, yeah04:42
DocScrutinizer05of which only 20 orso got built04:42
GeneralAntillesThey're all over the place.04:42
GeneralAntillesWe don't tax gas to infinite and beyond here.04:42
DocScrutinizer05some 500HP 3 axes pickup04:43
GeneralAntillesSee a lot of them towing horses here.04:43
freemangordonhaving 500hp is just not fair :(04:43
robbiethe1stMy dad's got an old Ford dually, 6-wheels there04:44
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: hi!04:45
freemangordonGeneralAntilles:,_1998%E2%80%932001%29_front_MJ.JPG :P04:45
robbiethe1st...also, diesel, with /maby/ 200HP, on a good day04:46
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: could you manage a devel device for robbiethe1st?04:46
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DocScrutinizer05he seriously honestly deserves and needs one04:46
robbiethe1stWe'll see by tomorrow if I need one; I found something on ebay, just slightly broken, and offered the guy $8004:46
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, no bank access.04:46
robbiethe1stCan't really afford it right now, but...04:47
GeneralAntillesBank manager at First Niagara was a complete dick to Woody.04:47
DocScrutinizer05that's plain silly04:47
DocScrutinizer05what about that lawyer who created that mess? can't he transfer the money to any more sane and tangible place?04:48
robbiethe1stAlso, yes. I would suggest using a credit union instead of a bank04:49
DocScrutinizer05I'm still wondering what to do, call police or talk to hells angels04:49
robbiethe1stCUs are almost always nicer to work with04:49
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DocScrutinizer05honestly, I feel like chief of idiot crew hearing we got ~4k$ of donations but don't have the money to pay robbiethe1st a device for 100$04:52
robbiethe1stTake it over yourself04:53
GeneralAntillesDonations are for infra.04:53
DocScrutinizer05not all of them04:53
GeneralAntillesGoing to attempt to form a German e.V. and open an account there04:53
GeneralAntillesGet them to cut a check for the new corporate account.04:54
robbiethe1stThing I've found is that, no matter what the problem is, if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself.04:54
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that will for sure happen tomorrow and pan out effortlessly04:54
RiDrobbiethe1st what happened?04:55
* DocScrutinizer05 is taking 80$ from "his" "funds" "account" and transferring it to robbiethe1st04:55
robbiethe1stRiD, how do you mean? This applies to anything at work04:55
RiDno no no, i mean your n90004:55
RiDhow badly broken04:56
RiDdid it set itself on fire04:56
DocScrutinizer05sufficiently bad to not allow BM maintenance and development04:56
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DocScrutinizer05I'm just so fed up that such stuff always gets paid by me or woody from our private wallet04:57
robbiethe1stLets see. I currently have three. My original one has a broken USB port. My current one has a broken cellmodem, but otherwise works... and I use it every day04:57
RiDi currently have 1 and spare parts of a broken one that i bought.. the owner scammed me04:57
RiDthe one that works has a broken usb obviously04:58
robbiethe1stMy third has a broken USB port, and may or may not have a working cellmodem04:59
robbiethe1stNote that #2 and #3 were both bought broken, because they were cheap04:59
RiDdefine cheap btw04:59
robbiethe1stThis was several years ago(2-3), so around $10005:00
robbiethe1stwhen devices were $30005:00
RiDI see05:00
RiDi got one with a totally busted mobo for 45€05:00
robbiethe1sttwo devices for like $120, versus a new/good one for 300.05:00
* DocScrutinizer05 is going to write invoices for his overtime and other expenses and send them to HiFo05:00
RiDeverything else was supposed to be in quite good state. Ah, horrible it was.05:00
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RiDthis week i'm going to buy another N900. I know for a fact that this one actually works and the usb is not broken05:01
RiDi'll be able to check the most vital things though, before buying05:02
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, no bank access. :P05:02
DocScrutinizer05I'm just glad that friggin PP account of HiFo also is broken05:03
GeneralAntillesIf you want to expedite it, help Win7Mac draft the legal documents for the e.V.05:04
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if I could come up with a way how HiFo could have get fsckd up any more than it is now05:04
GeneralAntillesPointless complaining.05:05
GeneralAntillesWe're working on it.05:05
GeneralAntillesThe people who made the mess are gone.05:05
DocScrutinizer05no, embarrassing05:05
DocScrutinizer05give me the address and name, I'll find somebody to tell them05:06
GeneralAntillesThat's why we had a special election.05:07
DocScrutinizer05even when we got an e.V. in Germany. Then what?05:07
GeneralAntillesThen no dealing with US taxes or First Niagara05:07
DocScrutinizer05how's that changing anything about the no-access issue?05:07
GeneralAntillesThey'll cut a check to a Germany corporate account05:07
GeneralAntillesand then we have access to the money and can open up PayPal donations.05:07
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, transfer the shit to your account!!! or mine!05:07
RiD...or mine :D05:08
GeneralAntillesDon't have access05:08
GeneralAntillesFirst Niagara refuses to give us access05:08
DocScrutinizer05so HOW IS THAT going to CHANGE?05:08
robbiethe1stWho has access?05:08
GeneralAntillesBut they agreed to cut a check to another Hildon Foundation corporate account.05:09
GeneralAntillesUnless you have the time and money to take them to small claims court05:09
DocScrutinizer05what you for sure should do05:09
GeneralAntillesAnybody who speaks German should go ahead and help Win7Mac draft the e.V. docs.05:09
DocScrutinizer05and include that lawyer into that trial05:09
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, no german e.V. will have any credibility at some fuckedup 1st nigeria05:10
DocScrutinizer05who's on that account's access list?05:11
GeneralAntillesI don't believe anyone is05:11
RiDfirst nigeria lol05:11
DocScrutinizer05that dude the HECK goes and transfers the whole money to some other account!05:11
GeneralAntillesRob was removed05:11
DocScrutinizer05when nobody is then the money is lost forever05:11
GeneralAntillesand they refuse to acknowledge our corporate resolution to add Woody & Co.05:11
DocScrutinizer05are they NUTS??05:12
GeneralAntillesMoney's in the account, but nobody currently has access, bank manager is an uncooperative asshole.05:12
GeneralAntillesSo, we're working through it as best we can.05:12
* DocScrutinizer05 buys a one way ticket to USA, and a winchester05:12
GeneralAntillesThey agreed to cut a check to another HiFo corporate account.05:12
DocScrutinizer05what the holy fuck is " another HiFo corporate account"???05:13
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GeneralAntillesOne opened with a German bank.05:13
DocScrutinizer05HiFo is no corporation!05:13
GeneralAntillesTo go with the e.V.05:13
GeneralAntillesUh, yes it is.05:13
GeneralAntillesIncorporated in the state of Pennsylvania.05:13
DocScrutinizer05this is so terribly ridiculous05:13
DocScrutinizer05I gonna fly over there and beat up Rob the correct way05:14
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DocScrutinizer05maybe homeland security can help05:15
robbiethe1stBTW, I'm in the US, I will offer what I can05:15
robbiethe1stI'm in Idaho, though, which makes it a little hard for some things05:15
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: ask what a raid command will ask for!05:15
DocScrutinizer05I think Mr R.M.B. loudly asked for something like that05:16
DocScrutinizer05Rob obviously managed to get himself removed from account access list (as the only one on there) and failed to get anybody else on05:18
DocScrutinizer05he effectively donated stuff to first nigeria05:19
DocScrutinizer05with nobody on access list, nobody ever can claim the donations anytime again05:20
DocScrutinizer05heck, he even might have taken the money and now laughs at maemo community05:21
DocScrutinizer05we'll never know05:21
GeneralAntillesSure we do.05:21
GeneralAntillesThey agreed to pen a check to another HiFo account.05:21
GeneralAntillesThe money is still there.05:22
DocScrutinizer05WHAT THE FUCK **IS** another HiFo account?05:22
DocScrutinizer05and how do you think anybody on earth could prove this property of any account?05:23
DocScrutinizer05in the world I live in you got *persons* who can access accounts05:24
DocScrutinizer05and tell what shall happen to the money on there05:24
DocScrutinizer05they have to prove their identity05:24
DocScrutinizer05by passwords, ID card, whatever05:25
DocScrutinizer05in Gwrmany you can't even pen an account for some "HiFo"05:26
DocScrutinizer05or e.V.05:26
DocScrutinizer05you always have *persons* that have access05:26
DocScrutinizer05in my book Rob is a burglar05:28
DocScrutinizer05I also think today you don't have any checks assigned to names or particular accounts. everybody owning a check can hand it in on whatever account s/he likes05:31
DocScrutinizer05if there are any checks anyway nowadays. Probably they don't print that stuff anymore05:32
DocScrutinizer05I think last time I seen a check is like 20 years ago05:33
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DocScrutinizer05and even back then they all had the printed note under "recipient": "or the one handing this check in" and on the backside "strike out of 'or then one that hands in' is considered moot"05:34
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DocScrutinizer05so what is the exact procedure supposed to transfer the donations to a new account?05:36
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DocScrutinizer05I more and more understand what happened to the contract with Nokia05:38
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DocScrutinizer05if HiFo USA isn't able to open a new account and make that money get transferred from 1st nigra to that new account, how do you think a german e.V. could do?05:43
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DocScrutinizer05"I got a letter for Mr HiFo. What? Sorry I don't think you actually are Mr. HiFo. You can send somebody to pick up that letter at post office. He just has to prove that Mr. HiFo sent him"06:17
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DocScrutinizer05sounds sane, no? whom would you send?06:19
DocScrutinizer05A German maybe? ;-D06:19
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thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: you mentioned on that OMAP3 chipsets don't work with >512MB RAM then how does the N9 a OMAP3630 chip work with 1GB RAM07:09
DocScrutinizer05does it?07:10
thedead1440indeed hence the surprise :)07:11
DocScrutinizer05hmm, then I dunno what dos1 found this afternoon07:11
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DocScrutinizer05I as well seem to recall we checked what memory sizes the PoP on N900 3430 could actually use, quite some time ago when SpeedEvil and me mused about swapping SoC or PoP for a better one, and we as well found 512MB max. Maybe for 3730 that changed and Dos1 did look at wrong place07:14
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thedead1440you mean for 3630 not 373007:15
thedead1440possibly thats the reason07:15
DocScrutinizer05I think x<pair>xxx is the HS variant, while x<impair>xxx is the non-HS variant07:16
DocScrutinizer05like with 3430 and 353007:17
DocScrutinizer05in the end it doesn't matter, Nikolaus will try to source the best SoC he can get07:18
DocScrutinizer05and for now we can't tell what that will be07:19
robbiethe1stI'm wondering... wouldn't it just be cheaper to take a few old N900s and do some reflow on them; up the Ram?07:19
robbiethe1stperhaps do some other simple mods?07:19
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robbiethe1stJust thinking how much money people would be spending, for a not that much better system, and how few could actually do it07:20
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: you're not to the point of this project. We want to create a new device that potentially can get built in a few years still, that we can base on for any successor and that we have full documentation for and full control over every single component07:21
robbiethe1stIn which case, wouldn't you want to build it with something /signifigantly/ better?07:22
DocScrutinizer05no, since we want to stay compatible to fremantle07:22
DocScrutinizer05and also we already *have* the core GTA04 design, tested and working07:22
robbiethe1stWhat, exactly, does that entail? I mean, isn't most of it just standard libraries and ARM code?07:23
DocScrutinizer05sorry I can't discuss this in detail right now, it's too complex and I'm too tired07:23
robbiethe1stJust out of curiosity, what would prevent taking the whole OS, using a new kernel and interface modules, and running it on, say, a Tegra-based tablet? You've got X11 drivers etc?07:23
robbiethe1stI should ask you tomorrow, then.07:23
robbiethe1st(because, that's sort of what I want to try to do myself - got a Nexus 7(gen1), want to get X on it, and hopefully Hildon07:24
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DocScrutinizer05if you think you could port fremantle to a new kernel and a new platform with new peripherals, go ahead talk to pali why he still is basing KP on 2.6.28 and finally *do* it07:25
DocScrutinizer05fremantle >> hildon07:25
DocScrutinizer05porting hildon to a new platform == cordia aiui07:26
chainsawbikeDocScrutinizer05, he's gone, and clearly needs to research...07:26
DocScrutinizer05doesn't mean you got a new fremantle device, with all the apps from fremantle readily available07:27
chainsawbikebut this GTA04 project does look interesting... will be following closely07:27
* DocScrutinizer05 feels like trying to mount a new engine into a car with broken engine, and maybe even a new engine with 50% more power. And all the time guys pass by asking "hey! why don't you build a Ferrari instead?"07:30
chainsawbike"wanna help? we will need cash, and plenty of it?"07:31
DocScrutinizer05while same time my wife tells me she shreddered all our credit cards07:31
DocScrutinizer05together with the money we had in the house07:32
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korhojoawhy would she shred money :(07:43
chainsawbikeMUAHAHAHAHAH i have a shredder!07:46
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: Can maemo infra provide for us supl-proxy with *non*self-signed certificate?
PaliDocScrutinizer05: btw, in above link are other supl servers09:33
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freemangordon_Pali: can't we just replace the certificate?09:43
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Palifreemangordon: that is only proxy and you can use any certificate on your own proxy server09:45
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Paliso also SSL certificate which is trusted09:46
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freemangordonPali: I got that, but why put additional pressure on the maemo infra if we can use the correct certificate on the device. I guess we can take it from N909:48
freemangordonoh, wait09:50
freemangordonI guess we should change liblocation09:50
freemangordonPali: seems we are missing some root cert on the device09:54
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freemangordonPali: well, "openssl s_client -connect -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/" gives Verify return code: 0 (ok)10:03
Veggenfreemangordon: provides every certificate up to and including the Verisign root certificate.10:08
VeggenHowever: it's the version of the root-certificate signed with md2 hash algorithm, considered unsafe, so lots of software have started not trusting it.10:08
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freemangordonVeggen: why then if I give  -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/ to openssl, the verification does not fail?10:09
Veggenthere exists a new version, drop-in-replacement, signed with sha1.10:09
Veggen...because it's the same keys? And openssl does trust it.10:10
freemangordonVeggen: " lots of software have started not trusting it." - nothing changed on n900 side10:10
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freemangordonso I can't see how it stared to not trust it10:11
Veggenwell. Maybe they did something on the side?10:12
freemangordonthat's for sure10:12
freemangordon:)10:12 is self-signed10:12
Paliread that TMO links10:12
freemangordonPali: it is not if I read the openssl output correctly10:13
freemangordonPali: try "openssl s_client -connect -CApath /etc/certs/common-ca/"10:13
Veggenfreemangordon: SSL-wise, they don't have to provide the root certificate in the chain. As does.10:14
freemangordonoh, I see10:14
freemangordonVeggen: but wait, N9/50 does not have any problem with it10:14
Palianyway, there are some other hidden gconf keys for supl location daemon10:15
Paliwhich are not exported to GUI10:15
Palilook at gconf file included in location packages10:15
VeggenHowever, usually it doesn't hurt. But if they recently change to provide it, maybe because of infrastructure changes...then maybe they provide it now and not before.10:15
Veggenfreemangordon: different software components on the client side might be more picky.10:15
VeggenNow I am just guessing at possible explanations. But I did have *exactly* that problem myself, for a site I do SSL-certificate-management for.10:16
freemangordonVeggen: sure, but if we have a problem in openssl, lets upgrade/fix it then, instead of setting up supl proxy on maemo infra :)10:16
freemangordonVeggen: how did you fix it?10:17
VeggenI stopped having the root certificate in the chain.10:17
freemangordonhmm won;t work for us :)10:18
VeggenMind you, it did require convincing a $three_letter_bigcorp to implement a change in their SSL stack.10:18
VeggenLuckily, I represented a $very_large_financial_customer in this case.10:19
freemangordonhowever, it seems we have some problem on N90010:20
freemangordonmaybe time to RE liblocation10:20
Veggenunfortunately, I have no more N900.10:20
Veggenhmm, or maybe I have.10:21
Veggenit was my N9 that was lost in a Dubai Taxi.10:21
freemangordondamn, it is not liblocation :(10:21
freemangordonPali: do we have any idea which binary is failing to connect to supl server?10:22
Palilocation-daemon binary10:22
freemangordonPali: sure? I can only find /usr/bin/location-proxy10:23
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Paliso location-proxy10:24
Paliit is that big daemon binary10:25
Paligrep for gconf keys10:25
freemangordonPali: hmm, this is some 30k binary, why big?10:25
Palido not remember, but there was some small libraries and one executable daemon binary10:26
Paliand I found there some hidden gconf keys10:26
freemangordonI guess it makes way more sense to RE this, instead of ade won;t be happy :D10:26
freemangordon-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        31988 Mar  2  2010 /usr/bin/location-proxy10:27
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sLumPiaHi guys...Is N900 support power bank?10:43
sLumPiaI have try several power bank, none successfully charge N900 battery10:43
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uncloudedsLumPia: I have a software problem on mine that means I can only charge from a real PC USB port10:48
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* _ade_ is waving his fist at freemangordon :-)10:50
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freemangordon_ade_: morning10:50
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_ade_freemangordon: I would say give the location issues priority above custom alarm sounds :-)10:52
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sLumPiaunclouded: Sorry, what software problem? Is that only your on N900 or happen on all N900?10:55
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uncloudedno idea what the problem is.  can't tell if your N900 is affected.  definitely not all N900s though10:56
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sLumPiaI have try at least 3 power banks and all of it failed to charged my phone10:58
freemangordonPali: "Aug 28 10:55:45 Nokia-N900 location-proxy[1496]: GLIB DEBUG default - Socket to opened, fd=10, verify_res=19"10:59
freemangordonseems like it is certman to blame11:00
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ApicA wonderful splendid good Morning (UGT) on this gorgeous Setting Orange!11:04
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: IIRC, I did find a gig - but it was a flashless gig. I was assuming it was possible to boot from emmc - perhaps if you did silly things like not bond a ball, or tie a ball high/low using wire13:45
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SpeedEvilAnd 'find' meant 'locate on microns website' - rather than 'find vendor that will ship 5.13:46
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Sicelo.ZZZZZ .........................................................ssz......................aazzzzzzzzzzzaa7$).,,,,z.,,,,,,,,8898l!qwgblioimlzzzzzzz14:58
ApicGood Sleep.15:01
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DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: thanks15:37
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Luke-Jranyone want my old N810 Gentoo binpkgs?15:54
Luke-Jrconsidering nuking them15:54
Win7Mac<DocScrutinizer05> "so what is the exact procedure supposed to transfer the donations to a new account?" - 1) register HiFo as e.V. 2) create bank account in germany 3) The bank will cut a check to Hildon Foundation e.V. or transfer the funds to that new bank account15:54
XATRIXHi, found an update for 'mc'15:55
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XATRIXBut it says it can't be installed because of it can't find 'libslang215:55
XATRIXany way to fix it ?15:56
Win7Mac*3) First Niagara wil...15:57
* jaska drools at the mention of n900 with 4x the ram15:58
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: you ever tried to open a bank account for some virtual entity?15:58
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: afaik there are no checks that can get handed in to only the account that's written on the check15:59
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Win7Macno, but change of members/account access is possible16:00
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: how would we and who would prove to 1st nagura that the HiFo account is legit and actually related to the US HiFo corporation?16:01
Win7Macsend all the papers + translation?16:01
DocScrutinizer05there are already ~5 "hildon" entities existing, why can't none of them claim the money? (assuming that 1st nigeria would actually refuse to send the money to account of e.g. Quite obviously you could fake whatever papers you like and send them to USA electronically or as FAX16:04
Win7Macok, I get your point. what can we do?16:05
DocScrutinizer05when some legit legal HiFo director can't open a new account anywhere in USA and then make 1st niagra send the money to that new USA account, then why would a german e.V be able to make them send the money to a german account?16:05
DocScrutinizer05I don't see anything that can be done anymore16:06
Win7Macdid you see woodys mail from 20.08.2013 21:45?16:06
DocScrutinizer05Rob fucked it up thoroughly for whole maemo community16:06
Win7Macdo you have it?16:07
Win7Machm, you were cc'd. anyway, just a sec16:07
DocScrutinizer05wait, then I must have it16:07
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ApicSubject == Object16:09
Win7MacFirst Niagra being a PITA.16:09
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DocScrutinizer05I wonder why the heck the original mail didn't make it16:20
DocScrutinizer05you should reread this mail carefully. Woody is clearly stating what he got told by Mike, and aiui the check option been not a quote of Mike's words16:21
Win7Macfrom woodys mail - we prolly could write a new "Corporate Resolution to appoint new trustees" for Woody only16:22
Win7MacFirst Niagara might except that16:22
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Win7Macthat for sure would be the fastest to get hold of the money16:22
DocScrutinizer05and you moost probably should find a new bank in USA with friendly competent employees, and ask them to help claim the money from 1stN16:23
DocScrutinizer05one bank knows the other bank's weird thinking and how to cope with it16:24
DocScrutinizer05find a new bank, talk to them and explain to them what you need, what you want to be able to do with that account, show them the existing papers and ask them if they need any other or additional documents to set up a working account and to claim the money from 1st niagara16:25
Win7Macit'd be an interim solution just to get the money asap. We'd kill that account as soon as we have the e.v.16:27
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DocScrutinizer05I dunno US banks, but here in Germany at least there's a think called "Bankeinzugsverfahren" where the destination account bank initiates the transfer, based on some permission the owner of the drafted account gave to the owner of the drafting account16:28
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: I dunno US banks, but here in Germany at least there's a thing called "Bankeinzugsverfahren" where the destination account bank initiates the transfer, based on some permission the owner of the drafted account gave to the owner of the drafting account16:28
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DocScrutinizer05since there's no verification about said permission on drafted side, the drafting side bank has to make sure the account owner is properly identified, and also they mustn't hand out the money for some period of time after transfer, so drafted side has a chance to check their account and roll back any rogue transfer16:31
Win7Macok, I'll email Woody16:33
DocScrutinizer05I hate to say this,  but: I told you for all I know you have to show up physically in a branch of the bank to get you on the access list, and you have to bring ID card or similar, and either the current owner must accompany you or the bank got a signed order from owner to add you (full name, nationality, maybe even ID card number) to the access list16:36
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DocScrutinizer05any other procedure would seem vulnerable and prone to fraud to me16:37
Win7Macwell, a signed order shouldn't be a problem16:38
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DocScrutinizer05from whom? now the account at 1st viagra is fsckdup since Rob removed. I don't think even Rob could sign such order now16:42
DocScrutinizer05basically nobody can, since nobody is on the access list anymore aiui. the account is basically orphaned16:43
Win7Macif read that mail right, 1st Niagara accepts Woody only16:43
Win7Macis there something similar to german PostIdent-Verfahren in the US?16:44
DocScrutinizer05I think even in germany postident is not sufficient to open or manage a bank account16:47
Win7Macmy bank offers it16:47
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DocScrutinizer05ponder the following: every russian mafia boss and every german pimp will happily pay you a few thousand for you doing him the favor to open an account on your name that he can access and use to clean his illegal money16:50
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DocScrutinizer05al qaida all the same16:50
DocScrutinizer05there's a rather terse ruleset what banks may allow and what they never will do, regarding identities and accountability of the individuals who have access to an account16:51
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Win7Macright, I'm suggesting to woody to be either 1) only treasurer for the moment to get on the access list 2) open new account with all 3 of us on the access list16:54
DocScrutinizer05btw similar considerations apply to e.V. - the foundation members maybe have to be Germans, most likely they have to live in Germany16:55
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Win7Macwhere you have that from?16:55
DocScrutinizer05when Woody can do this, he pretty please immediately transfers all money out of the tainted account at 1stN to any other account any of you guys has full access to16:56
DocScrutinizer05I don't mind if that's a private account of any of you, or you actually manage to create a new account in USA16:56
DocScrutinizer05creating an account is a lightweight and free of charge process, first approach16:57
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DocScrutinizer05if you manage to talk to the clerk about the purpose of the account and ask him how to set such thing up properly, all the better16:58
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DocScrutinizer05maybe don't confuse the guy at bank with HiFo foundation nonprofit blabla but simply explain to him you are 5 guys sharing a flat or a house, and the account is for all 5 of you, and eventually one or two of the crew may change17:01
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DocScrutinizer05s/all 5 of you/the house/17:01
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: maybe don't confuse the guy at bank with HiFo foundation nonprofit blabla but simply explain to him you are 5 guys sharing a flat or a house, and the account is for the house, and eventually one or two of the crew may change17:01
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DocScrutinizer05you of course can tell him about that HiFo club, but that doesn't change the way the account shall work and your house-example was just to explain more easily what you need17:03
DocScrutinizer05after all this is not terre_des_hommes17:04
DocScrutinizer05((where you have that from?)) mere logic. I don't think some Inuit can meet in their igloo and found a german e.V.17:06
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DocScrutinizer05or worse yet: ku klux klan or al qaida17:08
DocScrutinizer05obviously you at least have to be present in Germany to sign the papers and hand them in, and to check your snailmail box at the official address of the e.V.17:10
DocScrutinizer05and Ordnungsamt must have a feasible way to verify identity of the inaugural members17:10
DocScrutinizer05and to contact them17:11
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DocScrutinizer05err Amt fuer ordentliche Oeffnung17:13
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DocScrutinizer05check "(griechischer|spanischer|tuerkischer|*) Kulturverien" - they are all founded by German residents, though maybe they are Greeks or Spanish or...17:17
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dhbikerwhy is my N900 refusing to ring at random times ?17:27
dhbikerlike it rings on the first call17:27
dhbikerand then on the next it doesn't17:27
Win7Macsorry, my neighbour just came in, re-read now17:27
DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: maybe your system is getting hogged by sth. check `df -h` and `top`17:32
dhbikeralready checked17:32
dhbikerand load is always 0.07 or lower17:33
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DocScrutinizer05also just maybe your accelerometer got a hickup - it does this sometimes. Then your device might *think* it's face-down which means 'mute'. start spirit level app or similar accelerometer readout to check17:33
DocScrutinizer05load is ok then, what about df?17:34
dhbikerroot 68% used17:34
dhbikereverything else ok17:34
dhbikerthat's what's strange to me17:36
dhbikernothing special to see17:36
dhbikeraccelerometer also doing fine17:37
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dhbikerwell... seems like i have to reflash it soon then :|17:40
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DocScrutinizer05check syslog (install it if you don't already have it)17:48
Win7MacDocScrutinizer, I can't find any info saying non-germans cannot be funding members of an e.V.17:49
Win7MacLeitfaden zum Vereinsrecht, page 13:
DocScrutinizer05check other sounds. Is it only ringtone that fails or are all sounds broken? what about your profile? And what else is actually working when a call comes in - vibration, missed call notification, dialer popping up?17:50
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DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: I'm rather sure they have to have a falid addr in germany, called "ladungsfaehige Anschrift". doesn't matter if they are native Germans or any other nationality, but they can't create a e.V. when they are just moving to Germany in their holiday or even not come to Germany at all and just send some signed papers from Australia17:52
ludensanyone else who would like to run fish 2.0 on their N900?17:52
ludensi used 1.23something before and it was great17:52
ludensbut i never managed to compile it myself17:53
DocScrutinizer05fish? that weird filesystem?17:53
ludensno the shell17:53
Win7Macok, thanks I'll do some more research17:53
DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: also, do you by any chance have per-contact-ringtones installed (package has some different name I can't recall right now)?17:56
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dhbikerDocScrutinizer05: nope i don't use per contact ringtones17:58
dhbikersms and call ringtone randomly faily17:59
dhbikeralso not vibrating when it should17:59
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: german e.V. has special protection by law. It as well has some privileges. So you can bet on something in law forbids they abuse this on cayman islands simply by using a fax or one stooge in here17:59
dhbikeronly thing i have and i use it for more than a year is timed silencer18:00
DocScrutinizer05I suggest dbus-monitor >>sessionbus.log&; dbus-monitor -s >>systembus.log18:01
DocScrutinizer05and syslog18:01
DocScrutinizer05or simply reflash ;-)18:01
dhbikerprobably just reflash18:02
DocScrutinizer05do a BM backup before! if only for forensics18:02
dhbikeri will18:02
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dhbikerthanks DocScrutinizer05 :>18:03
DocScrutinizer05a weird idea: does your AV-jack work properly, i.e. does it recognize headset and headphones correctly?18:03
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dhbikeroh.. hmm18:03
dhbikerlet me check18:03
DocScrutinizer05also, check size of your events-db18:04
dhbikerwhere is that ?18:05
DocScrutinizer05eventsdb known to hog system to death when it frows to insane sizes. I consider everything >1MB severely insane18:05
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DocScrutinizer05  /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger18:06
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ludensnobody here tried the fish shell?18:23
ludensits awesome. unfortunately i failed when i tried to build it with the maemo sdk18:24
DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: syslog and dbus-monitor it is then18:32
SAiF^sorry I am getting used to doing that..18:36
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DocScrutinizer05~ping SAiF18:38
infobotpong SAiF18:38
DocScrutinizer05~coffee SAiF18:39
* infobot steals some of aloril's special coffee and gives it to SAiF on a silver platter.18:39
SAiFo.O hoho..:)18:40
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SAiFDoc, on Neo900, I won't vote.18:41
DocScrutinizer05don't vote if you're not interested18:42
DocScrutinizer05we just need to find out about chances to make that happen18:42
SAiFIts not that I am not insterested.18:42
SAiFwith just above 100bucks (coverterd 8000rs)  a month( as  a trainee), I cannot vote.18:43
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SAiFBut I would like a feature where ..18:44
dhbikervote ?18:44
dhbikersekrit vote ? :O18:44
SAiFI am struggling for english18:44
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SAiFwhere I could store some money as an online wallet, where I can only put money now and then, from now on and maemo can take it for developement, and when my wallet reaches the amount at which neo900 is selling, I will get one too.18:49
SAiFSomebody rephrase18:49
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Win7Macjust had a phonecall with the Deutsche Postbank and they will not accept treasurers who do not show up in a local branch :(19:26
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Win7Macfor identification19:26
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Win7Macno postident process whatsoever19:26
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DocScrutinizer05SAiF: it's pretty clear :-) and thanks, and yes we will probably try to make such thing possible19:47
DocScrutinizer05we're about to ponder a donation/fundraiser/kickstarter that does not automatically buy you a device but donations are meant for development. Of course we can plan to send out devices to donors who reached a certain limit, once we got them built19:49
SAiFokay doc.,19:50
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DocScrutinizer05we might go for a combination of first-come-first-serve and those-wo-donated-most. Yet to get evaluated how a fair process should look like19:51
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dhbikerdo my eyes see right ? :O20:23
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DocScrutinizer05spread the word!20:26
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dhbikerwill do sir!20:27
dhbikerwell i guess it's time to restart the development of my EQ :320:28
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dhbikeralso. voted on a poll20:38
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, how impossible is a specs bump?20:42
dos1GeneralAntilles: for Neo900?20:43
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GeneralAntillesdos1, yeah.21:55
discopigi'd definitely grab a neo90021:55
discopigdepending on price21:55
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dos1GeneralAntilles: some minor spec bump is very possible - we'll try to get the best parts we can afford and find21:56
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dos1major spec bump (like switching to OMAP4) is probably impossible at all21:56
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discopigjust having usb ports that don't fall off, and some more ram would already do wonders21:57
DocScrutinizer05you'll get both21:58
discopigyeah then i'd grab one21:58
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DocScrutinizer05plus true USB-OTG, and a modem that's not telling you "no SIM detected" after 3 years21:59
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discopigthat would definitely make the device a good bit more future proof22:00
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: depends on the particular specs you want to bump22:00
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DocScrutinizer05regarding SoC we're pretty much limited by what's available and what would be compatible to fremantle22:02
GeneralAntillesI think the RAM is probably the biggest bottleneck.22:02
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GeneralAntillesIdeally, I'd like an N900 formfactor device which can run Sailfish.22:02
Sicelo18:59 < DocScrutinizer05> plus true USB-OTG, and a modem that's not telling you "no SIM detected" after 3 years  <<<<------ how would this be guaranteed?22:03
DocScrutinizer05Nikolaus said we theoretically could go OMAP4 since the increased height isn't a problem maybe in Neo900 - unlike GTA02/04 - but we would start to leave known ground22:03
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DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: hmm?22:03
ShadowJKIn practice, there's always someone who will manage to rip out the usb ports22:03
GeneralAntillesOMAP4 would be a homerun.22:03
* ShadowJK has managed to rip out two usb ports on his desktop PC, but so far no N900 usb ports22:03
ShadowJKSoftware will be a big issue for omap4 though, I'd think22:04
DocScrutinizer05there's no guarantee in life ever. But on GTA04 / Neo900 we use a modem module, and that hardly will suffer from popping-open solder points when you press too hard on the kbd22:04
discopigi'm going to try to solder my n900's usb port soon22:05
discopigi guess it's a good time to learn22:05
discopigone of them is working intermittently so i don't want it to use it anymore until it's soldered and the other one i want to solder it before it starts breaking down22:05
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: (software issue) that's what I think as well22:06
GeneralAntillesHmm, different goals. I'd like something that'd work with a modern platform more than I want a faster Fremantle device.22:06
DocScrutinizer05the whole purpose of Neo900 from a maemo community POV is to run maemo on it, preferably binary-compatible22:07
ShadowJKThere are plenty of devices running "modern platforms" though22:07
Win7Macbut no modern open platforms22:08
DocScrutinizer05we're not going the doomed path of competing to iPhone et al, like N922:08
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: oh?22:08
DocScrutinizer05android isn't open? ;-P22:09
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Win7Macnot for me22:09
DocScrutinizer05I think android is just as open as maemo, just that android is way more clusterfscked22:09
Win7Macand it's googlefsckedup22:10
DocScrutinizer05maybe comparable to HARM22:10
DocScrutinizer05meh, and fremantle has cherry and nokia-mail and ovi and all the closed blobs core apps from Nokia22:11
ShadowJKI was under the impression that LG Nexus 4 isn't totally impossible to swap out OS on, or whatever the currrent hacker favourite device for this is, the ones they use to host libhybris+Ubuntu or libhybris+Mer/Sailfish on..22:11
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DocScrutinizer05so I honestly can't say maemo is more open than android22:11
discopigubuntu touch is interesting22:12
discopigon a device with a keyboard and Mir running, it would be a decent maemo alternative22:12
DocScrutinizer05well, "touch" it then. (ASCNR)22:12
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DocScrutinizer05"unrelated" :-)22:17
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DocScrutinizer05well, maybe related to "USB not falling off"22:18
kerioaw dammit i was at my aunt's today, and she has one of those usb otg adapters that fits inside the n90022:18
kerioforgot to steal it22:18
GeneralAntillesWell, there aren't any N900 formfactor devices out there.22:20
LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: "Android" the core project/OS seems more open than Maemo from what i can tell... i mean, you can take a 100% open thing and get it to run on something as long as you know how to link it to the hardware. Maemo... i guess there's a free/non-free distinction in the repos, but22:20
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: tbh I'd happily gone for N810 formfactor, if it was any feasible22:22
SpeedEvilLjL-Alps: There are major structural issues. You end up with an android device, that there is no way to run linux apps on22:23
SpeedEvilIn general22:24
DocScrutinizer05hi SpeedEvil22:24
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to eventually abuse SpeedEvil and his expertise for QA and evaluation of GTA0422:26
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LjL-AlpsSpeedEvil: that's true but that's different from openness of the code... also, some could argue "general" linux apps aren't really any good to run on a phone. i'd say if porting them is easy, though, that's a big plus.22:28
DocScrutinizer05LjL-Alps: depends22:28
SpeedEvilLjL-Alps: To a degree - true.22:28
SpeedEvilLjL-Alps: the problem arises when - for example - you want to add an authentication mode to the wifi config.22:29
SpeedEvilor setup iptables22:29
SpeedEvilOr ...22:29
DocScrutinizer05a really decently written x11 app should run on embedded just fine22:29
DocScrutinizer05with only very minor tweaks22:29
SpeedEvilthere is a significant problem with a consistent UI22:30
DocScrutinizer05alas there's much bulls**t out there22:30
LjL-AlpsSpeedEvil, it's just not really Linux in any way other than being technically running a Linux kernel :P22:30
SpeedEvilBut android isn't really great at that anyway22:30
SpeedEvilLjL-Alps: quite22:30
LjL-AlpsSpeedEvil: but other OS's are not Linux but are still open OS's, is all i'm saying22:30
DocScrutinizer05LjL-Alps: (running linux kernel) not even that22:31
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SpeedEvilAndroid is better than ios - sure.22:31
LjL-Alpseh i wasn't talking about open OS's22:31
SpeedEvilAlso - the powersaving is very much 'Oh - powersaving is too complex for app writers'22:31
LjL-Alpserr yes i was22:31
LjL-Alpsi wasn't talking about iOS22:31
DocScrutinizer05in my book android kernel is as much linux as mach is22:31
SpeedEvilmaemos approach to powersaving was probably sane.22:32
DocScrutinizer05and userland... :-x don't get me started22:32
LjL-AlpsSpeedEvil: what was maemo's approach?22:32
SpeedEvilneeded better tools though22:32
kerioLjL-Alps: linux desktop22:32
SpeedEvilLjL-Alps: It's the app writers problem.22:32
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LjL-AlpsSpeedEvil: hmm.22:32
DocScrutinizer05LjL-Alps: maemo approach is "no app shall hog cpu or any other resource for no good reason. When nothing to do: SLEEP!"22:33
SpeedEvilThis leads to silly stuff on android like persistant apps needing a notification active all the time22:33
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LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: i personally think this is something (among other things, security-related ones for instance) that on mobile OS's really begs to be kept under control by the OS, not just relied on application writer's goodwill22:34
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ShadowJKYou end up with stupid situations, like internet radios that pause if  you switch away from the browser tab or the app22:35
dos1on mass-market devices with commercial application stores with loads and loads of shit in them that's good approach22:35
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: ack22:35
dos1on device you own and you want to control (just like your PC) it sucks22:35
korhojoaon maemo it works because devs know this22:35
DocScrutinizer05some do ;-P22:35
LjL-AlpsSpeedEvil, apps that don't need to persist 100% of the time but can just respawn when there's enough free RAM to don't need that... while on the other hand, if you have something that *strictly needs to stay on* (because it's a persistent connection to IRC, for example), then in Android UI's situation, it makes total sense to not let the user be unaware of it22:35
keriokorhojoa: the solution is not to make the OS dumber, it's to make the devs smarter22:36
kerio"when there's enough free ram"22:36
korhojoafor android there are so many people doing work that you eventually end up with someone making a shitty but popular application22:36
keriothere's never enough free ram22:36
kerioif you reduce ram usage, you have more ram for caching22:36
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korhojoamy busdriver is watching tv series while waiting at the stop22:37
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korhojoahas anyone figured out a way to make the n900 have more ram? i mean, has anyone even attempted it?22:37
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korhojoathat would probably require at least a new pcb, if not soc22:38
DocScrutinizer05maemo handles low RAM amazingly well. Watch OOM in cooperation with HD kick out all the preloaded apps to recalim RAM22:38
LjL-Alpswell, i like Maemo as a Linux user who doesn't like having restrictions put on his computers (i'd like it much more if it were actually all open source, of course), but i just don't see how Maemo could have scaled to a mass market. while Android clearly has.22:38
LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: what's HD?22:38
DocScrutinizer05and restart them as soon as you add that swap partition ;-)22:38
DocScrutinizer05hildon desktop22:38
keriokorhojoa: the closest thing is cssu-thumb22:38
kerioand that's pretty fucking far22:39
korhojoayeah, already running that22:39
ShadowJKOh, one of the popular office applications for android don't have persistent state, so if you for example switch to browser to look something up, ad then switch back to your spreadsheet, there's a risk that instead of getting the spreadsheet back you see the splash loading screen of the office app, and have lost everything since last save22:39
korhojoait's pretty amazing though that they recompiled most of the stuff in thumb22:39
DocScrutinizer05korhojoa: you ever heard of Neo900?22:39
korhojoano, what's that?22:39
LjL-AlpsShadowJK: yeah i don't like that about Android - i shouldn't really be the app's job to handle persistence in my opinion. freeze the app and store its data into flash, if you want, but do it *yourself* (you - the OS)22:39
SpeedEvilkorhojoa: it is in principle qutite possible to add ram - unfortunately impractical for several reasons.22:39
LjL-AlpsShadowJK: (which is called "swap", methinks)22:40
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LjL-Alpss/i shouldn't/it shouldn't/22:40
dos1add Neo900 to the topic ;)22:40
DocScrutinizer05the new running gag on #maemo: "WUT? you haven't heard of Neo900?!? BWAHAHAHA" ;-D22:40
korhojoaSpeedEvil: yeah, well, that's what i meant. someone should tell the chinese clone mfgrs to slap at least 1g of ram in it22:40
LjL-Alpsare the chinese clones actually Maemo-compatible?22:41
DocScrutinizer05nooo waaaay dude22:41
discopigthe chinese n900's are refurbs22:41
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discopigthey just take pieces from different devices22:41
discopigdifferent n900's i mean22:41
LjL-Alpsback when i was shopping for an N900 three years ago (and then decided for a Milestone instead), there were many things that looked like N900's but weren't really22:41
DocScrutinizer05that's new original ones, not clones22:41
LjL-Alpsi remember reading websites that explained what to look for in the pictures to recognize genuine N900s22:41
korhojoaso does neo900 have anything to do with the openmoko stuff?22:41
dos1discopig: there are also clearly fake ones22:42
DocScrutinizer05clones use that notorious dual-SIM chipset with 8MB RAM22:42
discopigyeah but those dont run maemo22:42
dos1like dual-sim n90022:42
discopigfrom what i gathred22:42
dos1of course don't22:42
LjL-Alpsright that's what i was asking22:42
LjL-Alpsare "refurbs" generally bad?22:42
DocScrutinizer05depends, I guess22:43
DocScrutinizer05you could catch a lemon22:43
korhojoai had a refurb for 2 weeks, then the microusb tore off22:43
dos1if you can get one for $10, then go for it ;)22:43
LjL-Alpsbut then again, the usb is a weak point for any N90022:43
LjL-Alpsdos1: heh22:43
LjL-Alpswell no i don't fancy getting another N900 right now, i'm happy to have gotten one, but that's enough22:44
DocScrutinizer05LjL-Alps: not for *every*22:44
korhojoai was really nice to my refurb too, because my first one lost its port one morning when unplugging it from the charger22:44
DocScrutinizer05I know of N900 that rather break in two halfs than USB falling out22:44
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LjL-Alpskorhojoa: i'm using some other charger and cable with mine because this cable has the "hooks" worn out so it basically slides in and out with no force22:45
LjL-Alps... slides in and out with no force22:45
discopigDocScrutinizer05, was there any confirmed hw revision to have usb port fixed?22:45
discopiglike 2101, 2102, 2204, etc22:45
DocScrutinizer05aiui they initially had problems with reflow process22:45
LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: so the other thing you were saying - should i tread lightly on my keyboard, because otherwise i'll break the modem?22:45
discopigmy usb port is coming loose and i had filed the teeth on my charger22:46
korhojoawat, typing hard breaks the gsm modem?22:46
discopigso it just slid in and out effortlessly22:46
LjL-Alpsany keys/areas particularly affected?22:46
discopigand it still got loose enough to not work anymore22:46
DocScrutinizer05korhojoa: that's what I think, yes22:46
DocScrutinizer05(areas) well those next to the modem chipset22:47
discopigi guess soldering it in place is the only thing to do22:47
DocScrutinizer05discopig: :nod:22:47
discopignot too hard to do either22:47
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: makes sense - i did IRC for a couple of weeks from my phone, and it did die. Though that's a fairly poor sample size22:47
* LjL-Alps refrains from asking DocScrutinizer05 which ones those are, looks for N900 schematics online22:47
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DocScrutinizer05fine boy!22:48
DocScrutinizer05otherwise I had to do, and I'm lazy (now)22:48
DocScrutinizer05the story is dirt simply: you press hard on kbd -> PCB bends -> huge modem chip solderballs snapp open22:49
discopigthat is bad design22:49
DocScrutinizer05it actually is22:50
SpeedEvilIt's the sort of issue that's hard to tell if it will or won't be an issue.22:50
DocScrutinizer05and we have to make sure we don't do same mistake on Neo90022:50
SpeedEvilThere is - almost - no way to tell if that sort of thing will or won't be a problem.22:50
SpeedEvilStupid stuff like the exact alloy of the solder balls makes a difference.22:50
SpeedEvilAnd if you use a 0.6 or 0.8mm thick PcB22:51
DocScrutinizer05but you can plan for an optimized compinent üplacement, gaps in PCB, and support posts at the relevant places (the latter not if you're using a ready built case like we do on Neo900)22:52
SpeedEvilif you know that the keyboard forces are likely to be an issue - not the earphone jack22:52
DocScrutinizer05good my typing sucks. Might it be that cat that stomps over my kbd while I type?22:52
SpeedEvilseems likely.22:52
DocScrutinizer05luckily the earphone jack is not very likely to bring any excessive forces onto N900 PCB. Alas that receptacle component might be terribly hard to source22:54
DocScrutinizer05might order 300 directly from Nokia care ;-D22:54
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LjL-Alpsi'm not sure i'd personally care much about binary compatibility with the Neo900... what software are people really using that's closed source or not in the repos?22:56
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SpeedEvilangry birds?22:58
LjL-Alpsi saw some angry birds today, they almost bit me22:58
LjL-Alpsi wouldn't play with them22:58
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DocScrutinizer05mere techpr0n:  you really all should ready the very fine GTA04 System Manual ( ) to get the catch what philosophy the Neo900 is based on23:00
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DocScrutinizer05and as long as nobody goes all the way to recompile all of them, all the apps from extras-*23:02
LjL-Alpsaren't the apps in extras* compiled by some automated build system has?23:03
DocScrutinizer05for your reference and backround info: fremantle/N900 cmdline tools run on N9/HARM - just copy and done you are23:03
DocScrutinizer05sure, but do you expect such build system to compile them all without any troubles to some new altered OS?23:04
LjL-Alpswell i guess that depends on whether it isn't binary compatible for some trivial reasons or for some more profound ones, i guess23:04
LjL-Alpsi think i said i guess twice23:04
DocScrutinizer05and then there are dependencies to possibly closed blob binaries that come with Nokia core fremantle23:04
LjL-Alpsso i must not feel too sure23:04
DocScrutinizer05and what will you do with your "where's next McD" app when liblocation is a blob and doesn't run on new platform?23:06
LjL-Alpsyou're right, tragic23:06
DocScrutinizer05no, a challenge23:07
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DocScrutinizer05we're quite confident we can build a hw that allows fremantle porting task force to catch up the remaining incompatibilities in kernel/driver space and patch them out, so liblocation will run as usual23:09
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DocScrutinizer05and that's what we are aiming at23:09
DocScrutinizer05thus some spec bumps may be fine, while others are a nogo23:10
korhojoaquad-core 2,5ghz omap4?23:10
DocScrutinizer05depends on whether you can cope with them in kernel/diver/systemland in a way so that userland doesn't notice or doesn't care23:11
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LjL-Alpsyou mean big.LITTLE eith-core surely, korhojoa?23:11
korhojoaoctocore huh23:11
DocScrutinizer05quadcore maybe no problem (though that's *really* hard to tell), OMAP4 most likely no way, since it's too different to OMAP3 I guess23:11
LjL-Alpscall it what you want, it has eight cores23:11
korhojoawelp, lets just put a via x86 in there23:12
DocScrutinizer05dunno if kernel is multicore-safe23:12
dos1x86 and OMAP3 ARM emulator23:13
DocScrutinizer05and if all userland is23:13
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DocScrutinizer05cray with x86 emu running ARM qemu23:14
dos1DocScrutinizer05: in userland it should be quite easy to limit some process to one core, shouldn't it?23:14
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DocScrutinizer05but it _should_ not even be needed23:14
DocScrutinizer05if it is needed then you already have a problem since you don't know about the fact23:15
* DocScrutinizer05 curses TI-OMAP PoP specs which are like 8 different flavors, and you simply can't search for available PoP MCP in google23:22
DocScrutinizer05seems there's not even a 1GB RAM-only PoP available23:23
DocScrutinizer05I honestly wonder if we could go for fast RAM-based pseudo-eMMC swap23:24
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korhojoado you guys use compressed swap?23:24
freemangordonhmm, Harmattan openssl contains so-called no_check_self_signed.patch which is missing in maemo. /me is going to try if that will solve our issue23:24
DocScrutinizer05shouldn't be too hard to implement, given we can find some chip with a similar bus23:24
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korhojoaor whatever it is where you can compress memory instead of swapping it23:24
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: rather expect some expired certs. Mind you, this is Nokia!23:25
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: IIRC pin numbers helped23:25
SpeedEvilpop ram 196 or whatever23:25
korhojoait bothers me that apt-get frequently gives you a 'will not be installed' error when you try to install stuff that has nokia dependencies23:25
DocScrutinizer05yep, just I'm honestly too :-S to touch that 3000++ pp TRM of DM373023:26
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I checked the certificate chain, we are missing one intermediate certificate, but that should not be a problem IMO. And adding it doesn;t solve the problem23:26
DocScrutinizer05to find out what poincount the PoP interface actually has23:26
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DocScrutinizer05then what's the problem after you added it?23:27
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: i bet this patch will fix it ;)23:27
DocScrutinizer05go ahead :-)23:27
DocScrutinizer05we got CSSU for a reason ;-D23:27
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: this is not Nokia patch
DocScrutinizer05how is that relevant?23:28
freemangordonoh, wait, we're on 0.9.8n so it should be there :(23:29
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: nevermind23:29
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: make sure you always use IP only, when testing!23:29
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DocScrutinizer05friggin geo-IP introduces geissenbug23:30
DocScrutinizer05heiseenbug even23:30
* DocScrutinizer05 screams and runs23:30
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: and even when using IP, you still will run into random behaviour of the akamai server farm boxen. We seen this just so often on maemo repos23:31
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: general rule: don't take *anything* for granted! analyze every single test down to the protocol trace level23:32
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DocScrutinizer05ethereal is your friend23:32
freemangordonwell, I trust FF to be able to verify the certificate chain :)23:33
DocScrutinizer05I might even bet is has dissectors for supl23:33
freemangordonthere are 2 certs on top for cert - 1 intermediate and 1 root23:34
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freemangordonwe have the root cert, the intermediate one is missing23:34
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't be surprised if they are messed up due to CNAME23:34
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Tekk_Is there any particular trick to getting a microsd card into the n900? I just got one today(bit late to the party, I know :P) and it seems like the metal bit won't quite go down all the way23:35
freemangordonno, the error is "Verification failed: self signed certificate"23:35
DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: be careful not to bend the holder23:35
Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid23:35
DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: micro? or usual mini?23:36
freemangordonand cmcli is refusing to give any more details23:36
Tekk_microsd. does it expect mini23:36
DocScrutinizer05ooh sorry23:36
DocScrutinizer05mixed up SD and SIM23:36
DocScrutinizer05nah, the uSD usually fits easily23:36
DocScrutinizer05you just slide it in to full stop23:37
Tekk_got it23:37
Tekk_I was doing it wrong :P23:37
DocScrutinizer05then it closes almost by itself, you just slide it to lock23:37
Tekk_I didn't notice the tabs on the actual metal piece to hold the sd card. I thought that you put the sd card right inside and then brought the metal down over23:37
DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's why I said "slide it in"23:38
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DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: congrats for the best device you ever owned, and welcome23:38
Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: It certainly seems to be that so far :)23:39
DocScrutinizer05take care about your USB!23:39
DocScrutinizer05it's flimsy23:39
Tekk_actually my younger brother looked over my my shoulder when I was playing around with it a bit and went "Whoa, that's like a real computer! That's the best phone ever"23:39
DocScrutinizer05hehe, and damn he been right, no?23:40
Tekk_seems that way so far, at least23:40
DocScrutinizer05conect it to your TV to really make him go :-O23:40
Tekk_you can do that?23:40
Tekk_I'd probably want lxde first, though23:40
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DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: ;-D23:41
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Tekk_second. I've already managed to misplace my stylus23:42
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is, or, or see ~hostmode-powered23:42
Win7MacI just found a flaw in the laws for an e.V.: all board members have to be available in the EU23:43
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DocScrutinizer05I really want to hand this italian guy a beer for his awesome presentation of hostmode as well as AV23:48
DocScrutinizer05though probably he will owe me two for hostmode ;-P23:48
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Win7Macso the situation shows as: elect a new, all-EU-board23:50
Win7Macalso I've found that it's really a long-term job for directors, not good to change every year23:53
Win7Macsorry, that new, all-EU-board must not be elected, we can just do it23:54
Tekk_and people think that socks are bad with just disappearing...23:56
Win7Macas we're basically dropping HiFo in PA23:56
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Win7MacTekk_: ?23:58
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Tekk_Win7Mac: I lost my stylus before I even had my n900 for 2 hours :P23:59
Tekk_found it now though23:59

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