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| Win7Mac | ah, sorry | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Win7Mac | so I suggest, to have community legitimacy, council decides to fund an e.V. and presents 3 EU citizens for board | 00:02 |
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| Win7Mac | DocScrutinizer05, you should definetely be one of them | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 00:04 |
| Win7Mac | for now, we just need a descision to fund an e.V. from council | 00:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wishes people wouldn't play shock the monkey by highlighting him with some note that has no context but sounds scary ;-P | 00:05 | |
| Win7Mac | otherwise it'd be like some 7 guys decide to do whatever, which has no community-legitimacy... | 00:06 |
| Win7Mac | "shock the monkey"... LOL, sorry | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np | 00:07 |
| Win7Mac | we need 7 peeps for funding with at least 1 director | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just realized that the screen popup for highlights sometimes is annoying | 00:07 |
| Win7Mac | de-opt it | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much. and prolla all EU-residents, eh? | 00:08 |
| Win7Mac | no | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly* | 00:08 |
| Win7Mac | very good resource: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=110&no_cache=1 | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tldr | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gimme summary | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I had my share of reading about e.V. laws, some 8..12 weeks ago | 00:09 |
| Win7Mac | not a summary, but answers to basic questions: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=105&no_cache=1 | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also on some other occasions in my past | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have no basic question | 00:10 |
| Win7Mac | please look at it | 00:10 |
| Win7Mac | same 3 QAs + 2: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=95&no_cache=1 | 00:12 |
| Win7Mac | rather weird way of sorting them without direct links to the answers | 00:12 |
| Win7Mac | regarding board has to be available in EU see only question "Standort" here: http://www.buergergesellschaft.de/praxishilfen/arbeit-im-verein/fragen-antworten/expertenfeedback-kategorieansicht/107222/?tx_ttnews[cat]=112&no_cache=1 | 00:15 |
| Win7Mac | Board can be foreigners, but have to live in EU | 00:18 |
| dos1 | me, me, choose me! (I don't know what's going on, but being in board sounds nice :3) | 00:20 |
| Win7Mac | where do you live? | 00:20 |
| dos1 | but probably it's not when you really want to get stuff done I guess ;] | 00:20 |
| dos1 | Poland | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-08-28 23:08:14] <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much. and prolly all EU-residents, eh? [2013-08-28 23:08:20] <Win7Mac> no [2013-08-28 23:18:22] <Win7Mac> Board can be foreigners, but have to live in EU | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict resident | 00:21 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'resident' (1 of 8): a physician (especially an intern) who lives in a hospital and cares for hospitalized patients under the supervision of the medical staff of the hospital; "the resident was receiving special clinical training at the hospital" . | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict 2 resident | 00:21 |
| infobot | [2/8] \Res"i*dent\, n. 1. One who resides or dwells in a place for some time. [1913 Webster] 2. A diplomatic representative who resides at a foreign court; -- a term usualy applied to ministers of a rank inferior to that of ambassadors. See the Note under {Minister}, 4. [1913 Webster] | 00:21 |
| Win7Mac | ok ok ;) | 00:21 |
| dos1 | is that e.V. just for attempt to get that funding money back, or for something else too? | 00:24 |
| Win7Mac | it's meant to stay as i got it | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | board and council came to think that pensilvania law is a PITA, and a german e.V. is more easy to handle and more closely meeting our needs | 00:25 |
| Win7Mac | though we have 501(c)(3) status for US I believe | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is the hugest PITA of all | 00:25 |
| Win7Mac | bad if you loose it one day... | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have same for e.V. | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | called "gemeinnuetzig" | 00:26 |
| Win7Mac | right | 00:26 |
| dos1 | ok, seems reasonable | 00:26 |
| Win7Mac | so there's no real need for hurry, Woody will set up new bank account | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't want to touch that with a 10" pole, unless you *really* *really* *are* "gemeinnuetzig" and need that to save taxes and sign donation-receipts | 00:27 |
| Win7Mac | ...where we have access from germany too, hopefully | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we are *not* "gemeinnuetzig" | 00:28 |
| Tekk_ | does anything go horribly wrong if I enable the debian armel repo? | 00:28 |
| Win7Mac | so you mean we should fund a Verein, just not gemeinnützig? | 00:28 |
| Tekk_ | searching on the maemo wiki for "debian" didn't seem to mention that | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 00:28 |
| Win7Mac | and you come up with that already NOW? | 00:29 |
| Tekk_ | presumably I'd want to pin it so that I only use the debian repos if it's not in maemo ones | 00:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what? an e.V. per definition is not "gemeinnuetzig" per se | 00:29 |
| qwazix | Tekk_, don't do that | 00:29 |
| Tekk_ | okay | 00:29 |
| qwazix | you can try individual packages (most will fail with dependency issues) but don't enable the repo | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: maemo is _not_ debian | 00:30 |
| qwazix | The N900 (assuming you have one of those) has a very small root partition and you can very quickly fill it up if you install debian armel packages | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | despite it smells and tastes like debian | 00:30 |
| qwazix | some debian packages work if you unpack them and run the binary | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get dist-upgrade nukes your system *for sure* | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly the package management in maemo is debian on acid | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some other stuff in rootfs also isn't exactly debian'ish | 00:32 |
| Tekk_ | alright. any maemo repo happen to have emacs? | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a chroot called easy-debian. Guess why ;-D | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, i bet emacs available | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkg | 00:33 |
| infobot | [pkg] http://maemo.org/packages/ | 00:33 |
| Tekk_ | also, there any way to search from app manager? I wasn't able to find it but I'm not too used to the maemo ui yet | 00:33 |
| qwazix | just type | 00:34 |
| qwazix | when in list with all apps | 00:34 |
| Tekk_ | cool | 00:34 |
| Tekk_ | hmm | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in some rare places (package/app manager HAM, desktop) you _ahve_ to use the hw kbd and simply type, to start a search | 00:35 |
| Tekk_ | maemo.org is enabled, and a search in all apps doesn't find emacs | 00:35 |
| Tekk_ | but emacs24 is shown in that search | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also contacts | 00:35 |
| Tekk_ | do I need to apt-get it or is something wrong? | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check your catalogs in HAM | 00:35 |
| Tekk_ | maemo.org enabled, freemantle-1.3 distro, free non-free components | 00:36 |
| Tekk_ | look about right? | 00:36 |
| qwazix | rare? also in contacts, modest, musicplayer | 00:36 |
| qwazix | basically everywhere | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/emacs24/ --> extras-devel repo | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you either enable extras-devel repo in your HAM (beware, it takes literally 7 minutes to update then! and you for sure want to disable it again after installing what you were interested in!), or you get the .deb and install that | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/e/emacs24/emacs24_24.2-1_armel.deb | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/emacs24/24.2-1/ via http://maemo.org/packages/view/emacs24/ | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you probably even can click on that *.deb URL in the browser (microB) and it should download and install the *.deb | 00:40 |
| Win7Mac | so why no "gemeinnuetzigkeit", why the 10ft. pole? The possibility to hand out tax-relevant donation documents will for sure help raising funds | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might not work, then you need to click on the downloaded file again, in filemanager | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no it won't. and we ARE NOT gemeinnuetzig! | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are we feeding starving children? | 00:41 |
| Win7Mac | we provide infra + code for community, that is gemein... | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we are absolutely selfish | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we have a common hobby | 00:42 |
| Win7Mac | we just can't earn money | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but no mission to save the world | 00:42 |
| Win7Mac | e.V.'s are fgor hobbyists | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we _can_ earn money, we just have to pay tax - OMYGOD tax for 4kEUR _per_ _year_ | 00:43 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1370258&postcount=119 | 00:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly they will donate instead of ask for us paying some tax ;-P | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: you should adopt the habit to add some context and explanation to your posts | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and avoid code tags, they are a pita to read, with those scrollbars | 00:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, the thread context is clear IMO. But in case you've missed it, I got supl.nokia.com working | 00:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | uhu, I can't tell that from the post you linked | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine anyway. congrats | 00:46 |
| freemangordon | "Socket to supl.nokia.com opened, fd=10, verify_res=0" | 00:46 |
| Sicelo | really? wow... /me goes to check | 00:47 |
| Win7Mac | i still don't get what is bad about gemeinnützig - it will save us from paying taxes *AND* allows big donations with bonus for donator | 00:47 |
| Win7Mac | I mean, whats the plus on dropping it? | 00:48 |
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| Win7Mac | because we *CAN* be gemeinnuetzig if we want | 00:50 |
| Win7Mac | and our income will be from donations or fees *only* | 00:51 |
| Win7Mac | or what am I missing? | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: "gemeinnuetzig" means you really have to be a help to the world at large, saving starving children or the last wolpertinger. And your tax exempt results in terribly painfull controls of your finances and way more harsh and rigid rules how to run the e.V. | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly. stay away from "gemeinnuwetzig"! it's exactly the pitfall that HiFo fell in with 501(c)3 | 00:58 |
| Win7Mac | fell? | 00:59 |
| Win7Mac | finances? - some donations and some expenses for hardware, certificates... thats it! | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, what do you think why 501(c)3 never got completed, and why paypal locked the account | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, do what you like, but don't ask me then! | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FFS | 01:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I hate that "toldya" ever few days! | 01:01 |
| LjL-Alps | the N900 is a cute emulator platform thanks to its composite output :P | 01:04 |
| Win7Mac | I'm not sure if 501(c)3 never got completed, and IIRC paypal locked the account because Rob didn't care. But I don't wanna argue, if you advise to drop it - ok, it's not nescessary at all | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look wherever you like, for both 501(c)3 and gemeinnuetzig every sane howto recommends to get a *good* lawyer to get it right | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinnützigkeit | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | buzzword "anerkannt" | 01:07 |
| Win7Mac | Point #15: http://vereinsknowhow.de/ | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm out | 01:08 |
| Win7Mac | uups choose "Leifaden" from left menu | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NO I WONT!!!! | 01:09 |
| Win7Mac | aahhhh... ok, calm don't, i'll just shut up | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | listen buddy, I been member in a few more e.V. than this one. And every of them would for sure have lioved it to not pay taxes. But we had a lawyer to get our stuff right *despite* we were not "gemeinnuetzig" | 01:10 |
| LjL-Alps | freemangordon: oh boo, now nobody will write a floss SUPL server like i nudged them to! | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know what i'm talking about | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Die Körperschaft muss gemeinnützige, mildtätige oder kirchliche Zwecke verfolgen. | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Der Zweck muss selbstlos, ausschließlich und unmittelbar verfolgt werden. | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Alle Voraussetzungen der Steuerbegünstigung müssen aus der Satzung ersichtlich sein. Die Satzung muss auch die Art der Zweckverwirklichung angeben. | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read dat friggin wiki!! | 01:12 |
| Win7Mac | should have shared your experience earlier then, probably, anyway sorry for being somewhat arguing, but i really like a good discussion about important stuff | 01:12 |
| freemangordon | LjL-Alps: we have a problem in certman, not selecting the correct root cert IMO. I guess fixing it is more important than having supl server :) | 01:12 |
| LjL-Alps | heh, fair enough | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody ever said "gemeinnuetziger e.V" | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I had shared my knowledge more early | 01:13 |
| Win7Mac | §1-3 takes care of that, it's already in the draft | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, church of maemo | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | saving the exinguishing race of N900 | 01:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and then handing it to the poor. apropos, what's with Robbiethe1st now? | 01:14 |
| Win7Mac | church of maemo sounds cool... | 01:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | support for a commercial produc tis per se not gemeinnuetzig | 01:16 |
| dos1 | Polish Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster is now having problems with registration as religious association | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even when the product got discontinued | 01:17 |
| dos1 | i wonder if Church of Maemo could have better luck ;) | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neither is any pub, nor Apple no matter how much better they make the world with their products | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and gemeinnuetzigkeit gets approved for the past, not for the future. so when you send out tax-exempt donation-receipts and then you _are_ _not_ gemeinnuetzig, guess who's going to bend over | 01:20 |
| Win7Mac | sure, got to be responsible in life for what you do... | 01:21 |
| Win7Mac | anyway, if you wanna sell Neo900 via HiFo you'd definetely have a problem with gemeinnuetzig | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we _for_ _sure_ never ever will do such thing | 01:22 |
| Win7Mac | so, thanks for input and lets move on | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (we == GolDeliCo, even when i'm not) | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's close to criminal tax-evading | 01:23 |
| Win7Mac | i thought we == kickstarter | 01:23 |
| dos1 | yeah, I think Golden Delicious is fine with it being the seller of their hardware and won't release that position too easily :D | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 01:24 |
| Win7Mac | ah ok, fine | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and HiFo is no entity to better the world | 01:24 |
| Win7Mac | JA, damn it, got you by now... ;) | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo 8ot any successor e.V.) is just the cashier of maemo community and council | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (or* | 01:25 |
| Win7Mac | that's how i see it as well | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then scratch any "gemeinnuetzig", managing an account is not making the world better | 01:26 |
| Win7Mac | alrighty | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your Finanzamt will tell you, just a bit too late | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh we pay taxes - actually income taxes - for errr what? 4000EUR / 12 months? | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DANG! | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this must be... close to zilch anyway | 01:29 |
| Win7Mac | providing maemo infra to the world might come in for "making the world better" though ;) | 01:29 |
| Win7Mac | *count in | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's a almost commercial service | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and HiFo is not exactly doing it | 01:29 |
| Win7Mac | strictly speaking, yes | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, no matter if or if not you can get gemnuetz, it will cost us way more than it earns us | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | waaaaaaay more | 01:30 |
| Win7Mac | copied | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we probably have to pay 2/3 of the lawyer and steuerberater costs from our own pockets | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after burning the 4k we have | 01:31 |
| Win7Mac | LOL | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | been there, seen that | 01:31 |
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| Win7Mac | dude... than share those experience here please, if this can even make it on your to-do-list... ;): | 01:33 |
| Win7Mac | https://etherpad.mozilla.org/AMabik4zeD | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again?? | 01:33 |
| Win7Mac | no, sorry | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | copy the chanlog! | 01:34 |
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| Win7Mac | I'm not really serious | 01:34 |
| Win7Mac | I mean of course your input is highly appreciated, just don't take any offense | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinnützigkeit#Voraussetzungen_f.C3.BCr_die_Anerkennung | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | custom, science, education, art, culture, international | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | understanding among nations | 01:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nature conservancy, homeland, animal protection, development cooperation (international) | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 01:40 |
| dos1 | science - we do science on our phones; education - we educate people about our platform; art - wallpapers! | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tradidtional custom | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we still use a device that's obsolete since years | 01:41 |
| dos1 | understanding among nations - our phones can be used for international calls | 01:42 |
| dos1 | and you can install dictionary on them! | 01:43 |
| jon_y | >international calls | 01:43 |
| jon_y | not really, by virtue of being made non-affordable | 01:43 |
| jon_y | sure, only if you are rich and famous | 01:44 |
| dos1 | skype/gtalk/ekiga? ;) | 01:44 |
| jon_y | yeah that works | 01:44 |
| jon_y | but not over traditional cell/landline | 01:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the switzerland definition is pretty helpful: no benefit for yourself | 01:45 |
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| dos1 | so we must find some android fanboys who'll just sign some papers for us :) | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the auditing is a PITA and nobody really wants to do that. i'd pay 4000EUR to not have to go through such auditing | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if you fail the auditing then it's time to bend over | 01:47 |
| Win7Mac | as i said, you got me convinced | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since they have no humor at all | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you wasted their time | 01:48 |
| Win7Mac | m-m-m-my t-t-tax officer st-st-st-stutters... | 01:48 |
| Win7Mac | I really have to tear myself not to laugh hard... | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | such laugh might be the most expensive one of your life | 01:49 |
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| Win7Mac | i don't laugh, i help him finish the sentences | 01:50 |
| Win7Mac | np at all | 01:50 |
| Win7Mac | it just sounds funny at times | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh, I wonder if GolDeliCo has any insurance for disasters. E.G a lightning strikes the package with the 300 SoCs | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or even worse: the shelf with the 300 devices ready to get shipped | 01:54 |
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| Tekk_ | even though it's already decided, weren't you guys talking about eligibility for e.V.? | 02:14 |
| Tekk_ | actually I'll just shut up since I know nothing about how that stuff works in europe | 02:15 |
| Win7Mac | eligibility for tax-exemption | 02:16 |
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| Win7Mac | e.V. *can* have that, but it's a PITA as it seems | 02:17 |
| Tekk_ | ah. since the qualifications came up I was going to point out that kde has been eV for a very long time, and you're in the same domain | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.V yes. tax-excempt - prolly no | 02:19 |
| Tekk_ | ah | 02:19 |
| Tekk_ | that's where me not knowing anythign about the german organization things comes in :) | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, kde e.V is actually a pretty good example | 02:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh maybe it is -> http://ev.kde.org/corporate/statutes.php | 02:21 |
| Win7Mac | http://ev.kde.org/ looks like a good resource | 02:22 |
| Win7Mac | Tekk_: thanks! | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so they have sufficient turnover to make a tax-exempt audit worth it | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | best resource still seems wikipedia page to me | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeinnützigkeit#Voraussetzungen_f.C3.BCr_die_Anerkennung | 02:24 |
| Tekk_ | so germany distinguishes between non-profit and tax-exempt. | 02:24 |
| Tekk_ | that was messing me up a bit. I don't think the US has that distinction, but I may bewrong | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, _usually_ an e.V. is not profit oriented | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though there are prominent exceptions, like TUEV | 02:26 |
| Tekk_ | ah, my glance over the kde page made me think that an e.V. was by definition non-profit | 02:26 |
| Tekk_ | but I'm multitaskign | 02:26 |
| Tekk_ | as evidenced by my typos -.- | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | tax exempt is granted to sozial and otherwise strictly non-profit and "helping" e.V. only | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after a painful audit | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which will get re-done every 3 years the latest | 02:28 |
| Tekk_ | oh, to get semi back on topic | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and might result in tax-exempt revoked retroactively for last 3 years | 02:28 |
| Tekk_ | is there any way to back up my maemo install? | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 02:29 |
| infobot | [backupmenu] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 02:29 |
| Tekk_ | hold on, that may not cover it | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that does | 02:29 |
| Tekk_ | so backupmenu, save my backup somewhere, then I'm free to wipe my device? | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only thing not backed up is kernel | 02:29 |
| Tekk_ | there's the problem | 02:29 |
| Tekk_ | I want to try out meego, but I'd also like to restore maemo once I'm done :P | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uname -a, tag backup with kernel version | 02:30 |
| Tekk_ | cool | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meego afaik doesn't touch your kernel | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it comes with own alternative kernel on a alternative location, I *think* | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meego howto will elaborate on it | 02:31 |
| Tekk_ | thanks | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's stock kernel: Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you got sth different, you should make sure you know how to install that kernel before you restore any backup that's based on it | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise device will bootloop | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stock kernel gets installed with regular rweflashing the COMBINED process | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pr131 | 02:34 |
| infobot | well, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin or http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PR1.3 is fine as well | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing | 02:35 |
| infobot | hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 02:35 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: actually it looks like it won't touch my rootfs anyway | 02:35 |
| Tekk_ | the preferred way of installing meego seems to be actually installing on an sd card and booting from that | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: i am quite sure in installs on uSD or maybe eMMC | 02:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how many apps for meego might be available | 02:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for N900-meego | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not meego-harmattan | 02:37 |
| Win7Mac | what about N9-freemantle? | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I even wonder if it's still supported in any way, or already bitrotten to fubar | 02:38 |
| Tekk_ | considering how quick nokia was to even drop meego, I wouldn't be surprised if maemo was horribly bitrotten on the n9 | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: go ahead, start a project! | 02:39 |
| Win7Mac | sure ;) | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems nobody is really that much excited about the idea | 02:39 |
| Win7Mac | looks like | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with Neo900 this might change | 02:40 |
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| Win7Mac | what? | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once we prove that it *can* get ported, some weirdos might consider to actually rewrite all the blobs that won't work on N9 and port it to the coffin | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, nobody is _that_ weird I guess | 02:42 |
| Win7Mac | by then its 2015 and I'm on a Jolla I guess | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since with cordia you got a way better path to migrate look&feel of maemo fremantle to N9 while sacrificing binary compatibility | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and when you already need to rework and recompile your app for N9, then why to a target that somehow mimiks fremantle when there's a more modern kernel and core system available on your target platform | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't make that much of any sense | 02:46 |
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| Win7Mac | how can i strike text in tmo postß | 02:53 |
| Win7Mac | ? | 02:53 |
| Win7Mac | its not in editor interface | 02:54 |
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| kerio | nintendo just announced the nintendo 2ds | 03:02 |
| kerio | words fail me | 03:02 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer05 i like your sun glasses | 03:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile I got even better ones. RayBan | 03:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Win7Mac: one of the great mysteries | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it works *somehow* | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <s>, <S>, [strike], <dunno> | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe google. vBulletin | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or, even more weird: maybe just use the appropriate font somewgere and c&p the strike-out-text to the vBulletin editor? | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc | 03:15 |
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| RiD | i spent 5€ on some cheap sunglasses | 03:24 |
| RiD | its probably gonna make me blind | 03:24 |
| RiD | [s] ? | 03:26 |
| RiD | nvm.. [strike] indeed | 03:26 |
| Win7Mac | yeah, I got it, thanks | 03:26 |
| RiD | shouldn't it be relatively easy to add an extra button for that? | 03:27 |
| Win7Mac | it's m.o... | 03:27 |
| RiD | what? | 03:28 |
| Win7Mac | we get used to such things missing | 03:28 |
| RiD | http://i.imgur.com/1enBThi.jpg | 03:32 |
| Win7Mac | butler mishap | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vBulletin | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the only m.o specific thing probably is the default skin that I never use | 03:36 |
| RiD | you do not use the default skin? I am disappointed | 03:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | damn, we should learn how to do kickstarter before we consider start an own one ;-) See http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous | 03:46 |
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| RiD | DocScrutinizer05 what's wrong? | 04:15 |
| RiD | oh i get it. We need spaceships | 04:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and 5000GBP exclusive pledges, where a chip is named after you | 04:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | spacechips | 04:37 |
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| Macer | nice to see the exchange support works with the n900 and outlook.com | 07:35 |
| Macer | calendar sync and all heh | 07:35 |
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| Tekk_ | out of curiosity, how annoying is it to open the case? | 08:17 |
| Tekk_ | since it's suggested that you properly solder the USB connection into place on the wiki | 08:17 |
| Macer | not difficult at all | 08:21 |
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| Macer | you can probably do it with your fingernail | 08:21 |
| Tekk_ | Macer: not just opening the back | 08:22 |
| Tekk_ | at least I think | 08:22 |
| Macer | i cant remember exactly how i did it but it was fairly easy | 08:22 |
| Tekk_ | hmm, looks like after opening up the back of the case it's just 4 small philips heads | 08:22 |
| Macer | only thing to look out for was the cam module | 08:22 |
| Macer | i believe you have to unstick it from the board | 08:23 |
| Macer | mine fell off on my first n900 | 08:23 |
| Macer | it was a sad sad day heh | 08:23 |
| Macer | i'm on n900 #3 | 08:23 |
| Tekk_ | I'm on my first, received today :) | 08:24 |
| Tekk_ | Had my eye on one for years, though | 08:24 |
| Macer | they are rather cheap nowadays | 08:24 |
| Tekk_ | mhm | 08:24 |
| Tekk_ | and my other phone had died | 08:24 |
| Tekk_ | so n900 | 08:24 |
| SAiF | Welcome to the club Tekk | 08:24 |
| Tekk_ | thanks | 08:24 |
| Macer | the n900 is sometimes the device you hate to love heh | 08:25 |
| Tekk_ | how good's the n900 as far as self-hosting? | 08:25 |
| Tekk_ | self-hosting a dev environment* | 08:25 |
| Macer | i have an e7 as a backup in case this one breaks | 08:25 |
| Tekk_ | I figure if I can get host mode working I might be able to hook up a keyboard, throw something together | 08:25 |
| Macer | difficult i believe but you would have to ask the devs here if one pops up | 08:25 |
| Tekk_ | maybe a mediagoblin app | 08:26 |
| Tekk_ | since I'm going on vacation soon | 08:26 |
| Macer | you can always hook up a bt kb | 08:26 |
| Macer | heh | 08:26 |
| Macer | or | 08:26 |
| Tekk_ | don't have anything bt, actually | 08:26 |
| Macer | use sshd on it | 08:26 |
| Tekk_ | now that's an idea... | 08:26 |
| Macer | and ssh into it | 08:26 |
| Macer | the pkg is in the repo | 08:26 |
| Macer | you should at least update to cssu stable ;) | 08:27 |
| Tekk_ | yep, already on cssu | 08:27 |
| Tekk_ | and power kernel | 08:27 |
| Tekk_ | but now my battery is dead, so I guess sshd has to wait :P | 08:27 |
| Macer | if youre going to dev... take over the sociality app | 08:27 |
| Macer | lol | 08:27 |
| Tekk_ | battery life is pretty impressive on this, for how old it is | 08:27 |
| Macer | and make it function perfectly :-D | 08:27 |
| Macer | yah | 08:28 |
| Macer | especially since it really multitasks | 08:28 |
| Tekk_ | I mean, 4 year old phone, I was messing with it constantly for probably 7 hours | 08:28 |
| Macer | not the awkward method the rest do | 08:28 |
| Tekk_ | with a lot of updating in package manager | 08:28 |
| Macer | idle it lasts forever | 08:28 |
| Macer | days heh | 08:28 |
| Macer | the guys here really managed to make it sip power | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: 4 Ph, 2 Tx | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and be damn careful with the flat ribbon cable | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you better watch some movies and read the service manual L1_2 | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | youtube has zillions of "disassembling N900" videos | 08:30 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: it's an eventual thing for me | 08:30 |
| Tekk_ | I don't trust myself enough with a soldering iron yet to touch my new toy that I've been waiting years for :P | 08:30 |
| Macer | lol. it is brand new. unless you do something horrible to the port im sure it will be fine for a while | 08:31 |
| Macer | if it is even in jeopardy at all | 08:31 |
| Macer | not all were doing it | 08:31 |
| Tekk_ | nah, as far as I know it seems new | 08:31 |
| Tekk_ | a few tiny scratches on the screen, but a transatlantic ship will do that | 08:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVEHm325-z8 | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA82LYF64es | 08:35 |
| Tekk_ | thanks | 08:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | step14 ff are nonsense | 08:36 |
| SAiF | Doc, pls link to the L1 and L2 service manual, | 08:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7JjvnPNMH0 | 08:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this helps to re-assemble ;-D | 08:39 |
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| Macer | not for nothing the lumia 1020 is a ver pretty looking device | 08:41 |
| Macer | too bad it is only att heh | 08:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j7JjvnPNMH0#t=307 is critical! | 08:43 |
| Macer | i wonder if they ever even bothered releasing wp7.8 for the 900 | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Schematic | 08:45 |
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| kerio | mmh, does rescueOS work for you? | 12:26 |
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| kerio | does rescueOS 1.1 work for anyone? | 13:39 |
| kerio | i get a missing library to run /bin/sh | 13:39 |
| kerio | ~seen nin101 | 13:40 |
| infobot | nin101 <~NIN@p57B9E936.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 14h 24m 48s ago, saying: 'hardfalcon1: ResecueOS != meego rescue initrd.'. | 13:40 |
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| kerio | ~rescueos | 13:45 |
| infobot | rumour has it, rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/, or http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 13:45 |
| kerio | seriously though, did *anyone* try it? | 13:45 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: iwlist scan doesn't do anything in rescueOS | 13:50 |
| kerio | is my wifi broken? | 13:50 |
| kerio | what the fuck | 13:50 |
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| Apic | Da fuq? | 13:57 |
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| kerio | now i removed the battery, i'll wait like 10 minutes for everything to reset i guess | 13:59 |
| kerio | (btw: rescueos 1.1 is broken) | 13:59 |
| Apic | k | 14:01 |
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| LjL-Alps | oh wow, BatteryGraph is non-free, never noticed before | 14:43 |
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| RST38h | A gambling website's favorite as Microsoft Corp.'s next chief executive officer is Stephen Elop, the Nokia CEO who has presided over a 62 percent decline in market value. Elop, a former Microsoft executive, has 5-to-1 odds to be hired as Steve Ballmer's replacement, according to Ladbrokes, the U.K.-based gambling operator. He leads a pool including internal candidates Kevin Turner and Julie Larson-Green and outsiders. | 15:53 |
| RST38h | ELOP! ELOP! ELOP! ELOP! | 15:53 |
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| Guest17626 | hi | 16:05 |
| Guest17626 | N900 user since Aug2010 :D | 16:06 |
| Guest17626 | very excited about the new upgrade :) | 16:06 |
| SAiF | even after flashing incoming call display is not working in portrait mode.. | 16:07 |
| Apic | \o | 16:07 |
| SAiF | Guest17626, casted vote? | 16:07 |
| Guest17626 | yes 450, but that was before i read all the thread | 16:07 |
| Guest17626 | I would go higher | 16:08 |
| SAiF | :) | 16:08 |
| SAiF | and how would I know the kp version I installed.. | 16:10 |
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| Guest17626 | via your app manager/installer.. or uname in cli (i think) | 16:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Aww - you beat me. | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: Well - surface is clearly one sort of platform that can burn | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Guest17626: >=700? | 16:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | most fun comment - QWOP seems to be a better choice than Elop. | 16:27 |
| Apic | Hehe | 16:29 |
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| RST38h | SpeedEvil: I hope they just all jump into the cold wet water, like fucking rats following the piper, and drown | 16:37 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 16:37 | |
| RST38h | The world will be a better place without Microsoft "technologies" | 16:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I don't know. Is your rescueOS broken maybe? | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe rescueOS doesn't have the firmware for the WLAN, to upload? (is there any firmware upload happening during power-up of WLAN chip? IIRC there is) | 16:51 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: no, 1.1 doesn't work because there's no libncurses to run /bin/sh | 16:55 |
| kerio | 1.0 does have the firmware | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh, so why or how is that affecting WLAN then? | 16:56 |
| kerio | it doesn't | 16:57 |
| kerio | that's why i claim that's my wifi that's broken | 16:57 |
| kerio | i might do a second test after reflashing pr1.3 | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do that! | 16:58 |
| kerio | ok! | 16:58 |
| kerio | but not now | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: what means "call display is not working in portrait mode" ? | 16:59 |
| NIN101 | "no libncurses to run /bin/sh", he, wtf? | 17:01 |
| Apic | ;-) | 17:02 |
| kerio | NIN101: honest | 17:02 |
| kerio | kernel panic due to /bin/sh erroring out due to missing libncurses.something | 17:03 |
| Apic | ^.^ | 17:03 |
| kerio | i'm surprised nobody actually *tried* that image | 17:03 |
| NIN101 | well, let me check. | 17:04 |
| SAiF | means when I get a call, I can't see whos calling. just black screen with ringtone and/or vibration | 17:04 |
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| SAiF | however, if when ringing, I slide up, It will show the caller name in landscape mode. | 17:05 |
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| NIN101 | when does it kernel panic kerio? | 17:07 |
| kerio | during boot time | 17:07 |
| NIN101 | your image is broken | 17:07 |
| kerio | i mean, it just... does nothing | 17:07 |
| NIN101 | is boots perfectly fine here | 17:07 |
| kerio | probably! | 17:07 |
| kerio | one sec | 17:07 |
| kerio | ~rescueos | 17:07 |
| infobot | it has been said that rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/, or http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 17:07 |
| kerio | the first one is the "official" site, right? | 17:07 |
| NIN101 | no, the second one is the official site | 17:07 |
| kerio | k | 17:07 |
| NIN101 | so whoever has rights to factinfo can actually kill the url with the IP. | 17:08 |
| kerio | infobot: no, rescue-os is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 17:08 |
| infobot | okay, kerio | 17:08 |
| kerio | ~rescueos | 17:08 |
| infobot | it has been said that rescue-os is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 17:08 |
| kerio | ~literal rescueos | 17:08 |
| infobot | "rescueos" is "<reply>see rescue-os" | 17:08 |
| kerio | mmh | 17:08 |
| kerio | infobot: no, rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ | 17:08 |
| infobot | okay, kerio | 17:08 |
| kerio | infobot: no, rescue-os is <reply>see rescueos | 17:08 |
| infobot | kerio: okay | 17:08 |
| kerio | the official name is rescueos with no space, right | 17:08 |
| kerio | NIN101: MD5 (rescueOS-1.1.img) = 5740b431843b8b8c40a36c09b1d7f60f | 17:09 |
| kerio | can you confirm? i have no gnupg installed at the moment | 17:09 |
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| NIN101 | mom | 17:10 |
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| NIN101 | kerio: yes, looks good | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, rescue-os is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/ or http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ | 17:13 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 17:13 |
| SAiF | the only thing I have done before getting a call was to do a restore of contacts using the default backup program. | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: is your proximity sensor next to screenside camera covered by sth? | 17:14 |
| SAiF | nope.. | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's your system? stock PR1.3.1, CSSU-*?? | 17:15 |
| kerio | NIN101: yay, it actually works | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: please consider providing MD5SUMS file on your site | 17:17 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: even in rescueos 1.1, wlan0 No scan results | 17:17 |
| SAiF | is stock now.. | 17:17 |
| SAiF | downloading cssu_ s over 2g | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmmm | 17:17 |
| jon_y | md5 sha256 sha384 sha512 pls :) | 17:17 |
| jon_y | can't go wrong with multiple | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh! | 17:18 |
| kerio | just CRC32 the sha512 hash | 17:18 |
| kerio | easy | 17:18 |
| jon_y | :) | 17:18 |
| SAiF | by the way, can you tell me best way t o install kp | 17:18 |
| kerio | sudo apt-get install kernel-power-flasher | 17:18 |
| jon_y | I know I know, let's use a parity bit for the whole file | 17:18 |
| kerio | jon_y: and then md5 the parity bit | 17:19 |
| jon_y | :) | 17:19 |
| SAiF | or from repository? | 17:19 |
| kerio | SAiF: that's from repository | 17:19 |
| SAiF | I mean HAM | 17:19 |
| kerio | same thing | 17:19 |
| SAiF | but cleven says no suitable kp found | 17:20 |
| NIN101 | ok, you got your checksums + ketchup. But only gpg is serious, so keep using that. | 17:20 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: have you seen http://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/1l7baq/creating_a_user_from_the_web_problem/ ? | 17:21 |
| SAiF | cleven from apt-get install cleven | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what is it about? | 17:21 |
| kerio | just look at that guy's question | 17:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: jon_y: the chances to corrupt a file in such a way that the md5sum stays unchanged are smaller than your chances watching a neutron decay. So why for God's sake would we need sha256 sha384 sha512 ? | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to confuse users? | 17:24 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: sha512 has less collisions | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pfff | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neutron decay | 17:25 |
| kerio | it has... mh | 17:25 |
| NIN101 | actually, if you use the sums to verify something instead of the gpg... you are doing something wrong anyway. | 17:25 |
| kerio | NIN101: i'm trying to avoid mistakes, not malice | 17:26 |
| kerio | and i don't have a trusted copy of your public key anyway | 17:26 |
| NIN101 | well, true. | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf? we're not signing something to protect it against NSA attacks | 17:26 |
| kerio | NIN101: i'll come to your house with a dna sampling machine, check your dna to see if you're really you, and then you can give me your public key | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're doing a CHECKSUM to detect transmission errors | 17:27 |
| kerio | hopefully there's no backdoor in the dna sampling machine | 17:27 |
| kerio | mh, i guess i'm building that myself then | 17:27 |
| kerio | can't trust it | 17:27 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: ooh good point | 17:28 |
| kerio | we can just ask the NSA if the download had transmission errors | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a backdoor in the sourcecode of the universe | 17:28 |
| kerio | can't deal with that | 17:28 |
| xes | DocScrutinizer05: yep, it's called human stupidity | 17:28 |
| SAiF | I didnt see that coming | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, that's the result | 17:29 |
| xes | btw.. NIN101 thanks for the sums and your rescueos... but please add again MC :-) | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when God created the universe, he didn't plan to add humans. But some rogue hacker exploited the backdoor | 17:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | all the mess we see happen (and the mess that human race creates) is just a result of that, the visible effects of the antivirus process trying to fight the exploit | 17:32 |
| NIN101 | xes: unlikely this happens in the near future. | 17:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, mc would bring a LOT of useful functionality | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in some respect mc is similar to busybox | 17:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | though in fact it just depends on the original tools | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. I think mc can't look into .tgz and .deb when tar and gzip are not installed | 17:36 |
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| NIN101 | for me it's quite simple: I don't know MC. It was once there, eating space. I dunno how useful it was on the N900 keyboard so I nuked it. But anyway, you normally don't use rescueOS that often (unless you are a rescueOS junkie like kerio :-) ) and if you do, well, you can modify the image and help yourself. If you use it sometimes, you can deal with the command line mv cp cat etc. Therefore it is not a priority in the barely alive rescueOS devel | 17:39 |
| NIN101 | opment. | 17:39 |
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| SAiF | Doc,, | 17:42 |
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| SAiF | DocScrutinizer05: | 17:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 18:00 |
| Apic | ? | 18:00 |
| SAiF | any ideas? | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not really. Observe | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, not now | 18:01 |
| SAiF | are you speaking abt what I said earlier? | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the error description isn't inspiring to me | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | are you not? | 18:02 |
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| SAiF | Should I describe in any other way.. | 18:02 |
| SAiF | explained? | 18:02 |
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| xes | SAiF: check if you have some dbus script activated while receiving calls, ringtoned or something similar | 18:03 |
| SAiF | flashed at noon | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, more verbose. When it happens, what exactly happens, how often it happens, what you did, which OS you're running, if you checked for other similar problems showing up etc pp | 18:03 |
| SAiF | I had this same exact issue, before flashing. I thought it was because of different softwares I installed. | 18:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | also check dialer menu screen orientation setting, switch it back and forth, disallow auto-orientation | 18:04 |
| xes | ...also if the screen starts rotating during a call the ui opens slowly. Opening the keyb you force the rotation | 18:05 |
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| SAiF | xes, It could be chance.. let me check | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the file where dialer stores orientation settings might be corrupt. It lives soemwhere in $HOME iirc, which doesn't get reset when you reflash rootfs | 18:06 |
| SAiF | I flashed both rootfs and emmc | 18:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 is supposed to know that stuff, since author of starhash-enabler, but forgot | 18:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooops | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the problem persists despite you didn't restore stuff? | 18:07 |
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| SAiF | checked both ways, as xes said, it doesnt work either way | 18:10 |
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| SAiF | I am not sure, I didnt checked without restoreing contacts. | 18:10 |
| xes | internal nokia backup? | 18:12 |
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| SAiF | yes | 18:12 |
| SAiF | well.. onething worked.. | 18:12 |
| SAiF | the orientation was set to portrait mode by default. | 18:13 |
| SAiF | now when I changed that to auto, as Doc said, I started working. | 18:13 |
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| SAiF | but only sometimes.. :( | 18:16 |
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| SAiF | now its not working at all. just like before | 18:17 |
| xes | it could also be that some db is corrupted slowing down the dialer's number lookup function. Make some test with the phone clear | 18:19 |
| SAiF | going to restore original settings. shall i proceed? | 18:20 |
| SAiF | or clear device? | 18:20 |
| SAiF | clearing | 18:21 |
| xes | i would save manually all the contacts/sms folders to restore them without nokia backup | 18:21 |
| SAiF | i just cleared without waiting for reply | 18:22 |
| SAiF | oops | 18:22 |
| SAiF | well, cleared device. but still when i ring into n900, display goes black | 18:25 |
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| xes | keep the dialer active, screen active, receive a call... what happens? | 18:27 |
| SAiF | I opened the dailing pad and ringed for 5 secs. screen went black for 5secs and when I disconnected ringing, screen became active again | 18:30 |
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| xes | this is the usual behavior when the phone is near something. Proximity sensor covered or broken | 18:31 |
| SAiF | Its not covered by anything. | 18:32 |
| SAiF | how could I know if the proximity sensor is working.. in dmesg | 18:32 |
| SAiF | ?? | 18:32 |
| xes | http://natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html | 18:33 |
| xes | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39930 | 18:33 |
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| SAiF | well I suppose, if its an issue with proximity sensor, someone pls tell me how to disable proximity sensor | 18:39 |
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| cehteh | iirc you can see its output somewhere in /sys .. and in very dark environment one can see its IR-led barely glowing red | 19:05 |
| SAiF | sorry I am in a well lit office now. | 19:05 |
| cehteh | get some blanket and pull it over your head :) | 19:06 |
| SAiF | my boss will jump through the window seeing me..:) | 19:07 |
| xes | another phone with a camera can see the ir blinking | 19:07 |
| RiD | ^ | 19:07 |
| SAiF | let me check. | 19:07 |
| RiD | i was the first one to discover that | 19:07 |
| cehteh | or install some app which uses the ir sensor | 19:08 |
| cehteh | pcam uses it for focussing | 19:08 |
| cehteh | for example | 19:08 |
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| SAiF | well I could nt see anything | 19:11 |
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| SAiF | the one in near the front cam right? | 19:14 |
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| SAiF | anyone using irc chat on meamo IM conversation? or atleast is it possible? | 19:19 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | ~fixribbon | 19:25 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, fixribbon is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324171#post1324171 | 19:25 |
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| RiD | ah, who wants a 2nd hand lcd? | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: watch -n 1 cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: hm? | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: usually should show "open" until you place some object close in front of corner with camera | 19:33 |
| SAiF | closed' | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bad | 19:33 |
| RiD | n900 lcd, second handed. The usual two white spots are there | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | any dirt in it? | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | screensaver? | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err screen protector | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RiD: hmmm | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how much? | 19:35 |
| SAiF | have a screenprotector | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: then you got it | 19:35 |
| RiD | eh.. lemme check these chinese prices | 19:35 |
| SAiF | I am afraid to peel it off now. | 19:35 |
| RiD | glue? | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use scotchtape | 19:35 |
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| SAiF | If i remove it now, I will surely make scractes on display by tomorrow morning? | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, the screen isn't THAT delicate | 19:36 |
| SAiF | I will buy another screenprotector, and remove this one, and will check it and then apply new one. | 19:36 |
| SAiF | :) | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also you could just lift off the corner over camera | 19:37 |
| RiD | SAiF my n900 is 3 and 2 months years old, it's got many micro scratches but nothing deep | 19:37 |
| RiD | (i'm lying. But that deep hole is not my fault. Stupid young brother thinks it's cool to play around rotating a usb cable) | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | keep dust away, and after test put it down again | 19:37 |
| RiD | happened like on the 2nd week since i owned the n900. I was mad | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I would cry | 19:38 |
| RiD | lucky it was on the side, but "NEVER FORGET" applies | 19:38 |
| RiD | side = but still where i use touchscreen | 19:38 |
| RiD | my english is deteriorating so much today | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn | 19:39 |
| infobot | methinks xyawn is nap | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang!!! | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn | 19:39 |
| infobot | it has been said that xyawn is coffee | 19:39 |
| SAiF | any way not tonight,,, may be day after tomorrow.. I will tell you what happens then.. | 19:40 |
| RiD | Cheapest i found on ebay was 28.96$ for an lcd with ribbon cable + tools | 19:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's usually without white dots | 19:41 |
| RiD | and the ribbon cable is broken ._. | 19:41 |
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| SAiF | what is the white dots? | 19:42 |
| RiD | light bleeding | 19:42 |
| RiD | two spots are slightly brighter than everything else | 19:42 |
| RiD | two or w/e, tends to be two | 19:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | excessive pressure. known effect | 19:43 |
| SAiF | yes I have got them too. I will see it clearly in white background.. | 19:44 |
| RiD | DocScrutinizer05 a ribbon cable is around 4$, right? | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mechanical destruction of LCD structures | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I paid ~7 | 19:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | still a bargain for what components it comes with | 19:44 |
| RiD | i guess i could sell my lcd for 5€ heh | 19:45 |
| RiD | but the shipping could ruin the price | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, wait. The LCD with flex PCB? | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with frame? | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a complete upper half? | 19:46 |
| RiD | nope, i don't have a good condition complete upper half | 19:46 |
| RiD | apart from the one that is on my n900 | 19:46 |
| RiD | kinda got scammed months ago | 19:46 |
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| xes | digitizer+frame =15€ lcd = 25€ ribbon+camera+sens =7€ | 19:49 |
| xes | (spare parts in the first drawer) | 19:50 |
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| SAiF | I bought a good qualtiy, not original digitizer for 15Euro | 19:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | SAiF: I just tested proxi sensor. | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang | 19:51 |
| RiD | hey | 19:53 |
| RiD | that ribbon cable that connects one half to the another | 19:53 |
| RiD | can it be removed without being damaged, and put into another (lol) slider/metal thingy? | 19:53 |
| xes | RiD: yes? | 19:56 |
| RiD | that sounds good. | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's not really easy though | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since it's glued to the metal frame afaik | 19:58 |
| RiD | that's what i suspected | 19:58 |
| RiD | couldn't the glue kinda ruin it | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most likely not, since most N900 work fro years | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for* | 19:59 |
| RiD | i mean when taking the cable off and putting it in another | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess Nokia picked some ds-sticky that's not doing dmage to the PCB | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the problem | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather get a new cable | 20:00 |
| RiD | yeah :\ | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, "cable" | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-08-29 18:49:43] <xes> [...] ribbon+camera+sens =7€ | 20:00 |
| xes | a good phon, and a good temperature could help.. | 20:02 |
| xes | for the glue, i mean | 20:02 |
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| RiD | there you go: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1536586/n900/not-for-sensible-beings/20130829_008.jpg | 20:06 |
| RiD | do you like my bed | 20:06 |
| Tekk_ | are there any working youtube apps? I tried YTube and cutube but neither of them seem to actually be able to complete a search | 20:06 |
| RiD | try cutetube. | 20:06 |
| RiD | (not cutetube-QML) | 20:06 |
| Tekk_ | so presumably youtube was youtube and broke that at some point :P | 20:06 |
| Tekk_ | oh, okay | 20:06 |
| RiD | you get a youtube app + few extras (such as video/audio downloader, etc) | 20:07 |
| RiD | i think it also does dailymotion | 20:07 |
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| Tekk_ | oh, what's with network performance? | 20:19 |
| Tekk_ | even at 600 mhz this phone kicks my last android phone's ass, but as soon anything involving network usage seems to be slowed to a crawl | 20:19 |
| Tekk_ | as soon as anything involves* | 20:20 |
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| Tekk_ | like I've been waiting on cutetube to show me a profile's upload list for probably 10 minutes now | 20:25 |
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| RiD | something's wrong then | 20:30 |
| Tekk_ | but I'm not sure what could be. This happened before and after cssu update, before and after power kernel | 20:31 |
| Tekk_ | and I'm on wifi that's fine, not a cell network | 20:31 |
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| Timmy | how can I disable Lens Cover Sensor? It is broken and camera doesn't work because the whole sdcard board is fucked up | 20:33 |
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| Tekk_ | also, does anyone have recommendations for an irc client? I saw irssi in the repos, as well as xchat, but I remember seeing a forum post about how the xhcat ui isn't too good on maemo | 21:06 |
| Tekk_ | and I'm not a huge fan of irssi, especially without an alt key | 21:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | xchat worked well for me | 21:13 |
| SpeedEvil | once setup right | 21:13 |
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| FIQ | Tekk_I have no issues with the UI | 21:15 |
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| RiD | i use xchat | 21:20 |
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| Tekk_ | okay, maybe the thread I read was old | 21:23 |
| FIQ | xchat ui is largely unchanged from 2011 | 21:24 |
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| Tekk_ | yeah, something's definitely up with my networking | 21:32 |
| Tekk_ | taking forever to connect to freenode. What'd be the best way to try to diagnose this? | 21:33 |
| Tekk_ | it took ~1 minute to connect to freenode | 21:33 |
| Tekk_ | by which I mean just connect the socket. I'm still not /nick'd or anything | 21:34 |
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| Tekk_ | yeah, xchat can't even properly connect to freenode :/ | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: xchat, with custom settings FTQ | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrxchat | 21:50 |
| infobot | i guess jrxchat is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/ | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FTW even | 21:50 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: not much help when I can't even connect though :P | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your network must be fux0red | 21:51 |
| Tekk_ | nah, it was happening both on 3g and wifi | 21:52 |
| Tekk_ | and my wifi's fine on literally everything but the n900 | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or you got a browserwindow open that hogs your poor N900 RAM | 21:52 |
| Tekk_ | nope | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then I dunno | 21:52 |
| Tekk_ | any way I could try to diagnose what's going on? | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not any known problem | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usual network diagnostics, like ping, traceroute, mtr | 21:53 |
| Tekk_ | actually just to make sure. idle ram usage of ~100 MB is fine? | 21:53 |
| Tekk_ | looking around using htop | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errrr | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you rather should look for your swap usage. Free RAM is pretty unusual on maemo | 21:54 |
| Tekk_ | well I'm literally not doing anything but htop | 21:54 |
| Tekk_ | and swap is at 70 mb | 21:54 |
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| Tekk_ | I have swappolube installed too | 21:55 |
| Tekk_ | using the recommended settings on that | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should be fine | 21:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | check your powersaving mode on WLAN | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might encounter compatibility issues on "medium" or "high" | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depending on how crappy your AP | 21:56 |
| Tekk_ | powersaving on the n900 or on the AP? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Timmy: bad luck. Disabling the cmera door sensor is not exactly easy. You probably will need a kernel hack to do so, or at least some severe console magic messing with sysfs | 21:58 |
| LjL-Alps | i think he means on the N900 (at least, there's that option on it) | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 21:58 |
| * Tekk_ is looking | 21:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AP has no powersaving mode, bot some other parameters related that sometimes improve things a bit when tweaking them. But generally only a firmware update or hw update on AP can fix those problems | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some AP simply don't support or poorly support the PSM used by N900 | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly old AP | 22:00 |
| Tekk_ | yeah, but this wasn't just on wlan | 22:01 |
| Tekk_ | this was on 3g too | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | install syslog, check what's wrong | 22:01 |
| Tekk_ | sysklogd? | 22:06 |
| Tekk_ | well that might just be it | 22:08 |
| Tekk_ | wlan0 is switching between LOWSIGNAL and HIGHSIGNAL literally hundreds of times a second | 22:08 |
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| Tekk_ | actually this seems to be when it was logged, not when it happened | 22:09 |
| Tekk_ | but there's a LOT of switching between LOW and HIGH | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, that indicates problems with your WLAN, though no unusual ones | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for sure shouldn't have any impact on 3G | 22:14 |
| Tekk_ | let me switch to 3g and look in syslog | 22:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | massive switching between HIGH and LOW can be related to a broken config of your AP. Sth like mixedmode, or whatever | 22:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or even N | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if i'm not mistaken then N900 WLAN supports B/G only | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mixed operaton of N and B/G devices in one AP domain might cause issues | 22:19 |
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| Tekk_ | changed AP out of mixedmode and into I think G | 22:25 |
| Tekk_ | seems to have helped freenode a bit, at least | 22:26 |
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| Tekk_ | ~8s ping :/ | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still PSM | 22:28 |
| Tekk_ | err, not ping | 22:28 |
| Tekk_ | actually yeah ping | 22:28 |
| Tekk_ | 8s for anything to get to freenode and back, it seems | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or you got crappy RF environment, lots of collisions from other AP using same channel | 22:29 |
| Tekk_ | yeah, same constant switching between HIGHSIGNAL and LOW | 22:30 |
| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: did nokia go really cheap on the antenna or something? | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not particularly | 22:31 |
| Tekk_ | hmm | 22:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I seem to recall similar reports, and sorry I can't say what been the fix or if there been any | 22:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google for maemo n900 HIGHSIGNAL LOWSIGNAL | 22:32 |
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| Tekk_ | DocScrutinizer05: there was one mailing list thread on it with no resolution, and one passing mention on irc 2 years ago :/ | 22:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Tekk_: check BMO there's reports there, no resolution IIRC | 22:43 |
| FIQ | ooh a whole week passed without any filesystem corruptions! | 22:47 |
| FIQ | neat | 22:47 |
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| Tekk_ | sixwheeledbeast: I'm not seeing it on bmo, what search terms were you using? | 22:50 |
| ShadowJK | N900 wifi antenna is the best on any mobile device I've had | 22:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Tekk_: momplz, I'll try and find it for you | 22:53 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Tekk_: bug 9101 | 22:55 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/9101 Wifi doesn't enter power saving mode properly (wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up) | 22:55 |
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| Tekk_ | ah, I saw that bug but the title seemed like it was irrelevant | 22:56 |
| Tekk_ | I may be more helpful, so I guess I'll sign up for an account | 22:56 |
| Tekk_ | since I can reproduce this even with power save mode off, and it's constant for me :P | 22:56 |
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| cehteh | http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/08/29/023200/elop-favored-by-gamblers-as-microsofts-next-chief-executive lmao | 23:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | BWAHAHAHA | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FLOP for president!! ;-P | 23:19 |
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