IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-08-29

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Win7Macah, sorry00:00
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Win7Macso I suggest, to have community legitimacy, council decides to fund an e.V. and presents 3 EU citizens for board00:02
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Win7MacDocScrutinizer05, you should definetely be one of them00:04
Win7Macfor now, we just need a descision to fund an e.V. from council00:04
* DocScrutinizer05 wishes people wouldn't play shock the monkey by highlighting him with some note that has no context but sounds scary ;-P00:05
Win7Macotherwise it'd be like some 7 guys decide to do whatever, which has no community-legitimacy...00:06
Win7Mac"shock the monkey"... LOL, sorry00:06
Win7Macwe need 7 peeps for funding with at least 1 director00:07
DocScrutinizer05just realized that the screen popup for highlights sometimes is annoying00:07
Win7Macde-opt it00:08
DocScrutinizer05thought as much. and prolla all EU-residents, eh?00:08
Win7Macvery good resource:[cat]=110&no_cache=100:08
DocScrutinizer05gimme summary00:09
DocScrutinizer05I had my share of reading about e.V. laws, some 8..12 weeks ago00:09
Win7Macnot a summary, but answers to basic questions:[cat]=105&no_cache=100:10
DocScrutinizer05also on some other occasions in my past00:10
DocScrutinizer05I have no basic question00:10
Win7Macplease look at it00:10
Win7Macsame 3 QAs + 2:[cat]=95&no_cache=100:12
Win7Macrather weird way of sorting them without direct links to the answers00:12
Win7Macregarding board has to be available in EU see only question "Standort" here:[cat]=112&no_cache=100:15
Win7MacBoard can be foreigners, but have to live in EU00:18
dos1me, me, choose me! (I don't know what's going on, but being in board sounds nice :3)00:20
Win7Macwhere do you live?00:20
dos1but probably it's not when you really want to get stuff done I guess ;]00:20
DocScrutinizer05[2013-08-28 23:08:14] <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much. and prolly all EU-residents, eh? [2013-08-28 23:08:20] <Win7Mac> no [2013-08-28 23:18:22] <Win7Mac> Board can be foreigners, but have to live in EU00:21
DocScrutinizer05~dict resident00:21
infobotDictionary 'resident' (1 of 8): a physician (especially an intern) who lives in a hospital and cares for hospitalized patients under the supervision of the medical staff of the hospital; "the resident was receiving special clinical training at the hospital" .00:21
DocScrutinizer05~dict 2 resident00:21
infobot[2/8] \Res"i*dent\, n. 1. One who resides or dwells in a place for some time. [1913 Webster] 2. A diplomatic representative who resides at a foreign court; -- a term usualy applied to ministers of a rank inferior to that of ambassadors. See the Note under {Minister}, 4. [1913 Webster]00:21
Win7Macok ok ;)00:21
dos1is that e.V. just for attempt to get that funding money back, or for something else too?00:24
Win7Macit's meant to stay as i got it00:24
DocScrutinizer05board and council came to think that pensilvania law is a PITA, and a german e.V. is more easy to handle and more closely meeting our needs00:25
Win7Macthough we have 501(c)(3) status for US I believe00:25
DocScrutinizer05which is the hugest PITA of all00:25
Win7Macbad if you loose it one day...00:25
DocScrutinizer05we have same for e.V.00:26
DocScrutinizer05called "gemeinnuetzig"00:26
dos1ok, seems reasonable00:26
Win7Macso there's no real need for hurry, Woody will set up new bank account00:27
DocScrutinizer05you don't want to touch that with a 10" pole, unless you *really* *really* *are* "gemeinnuetzig" and need that to save taxes and sign donation-receipts00:27
Win7Mac...where we have access from germany too, hopefully00:28
DocScrutinizer05we are *not* "gemeinnuetzig"00:28
Tekk_does anything go horribly wrong if I enable the debian armel repo?00:28
Win7Macso you mean we should fund a Verein, just not gemeinnützig?00:28
Tekk_searching on the maemo wiki for "debian" didn't seem to mention that00:28
Win7Macand you come up with that already NOW?00:29
Tekk_presumably I'd want to pin it so that I only use the debian repos if it's not in maemo ones00:29
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DocScrutinizer05what? an e.V. per definition is not "gemeinnuetzig" per se00:29
qwazixTekk_, don't do that00:29
qwazixyou can try individual packages (most will fail with dependency issues) but don't enable the repo00:30
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DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: maemo is _not_ debian00:30
qwazixThe N900 (assuming you have one of those) has a very small root partition and you can very quickly fill it up if you install debian armel packages00:30
DocScrutinizer05despite it smells and tastes like debian00:30
qwazixsome debian packages work if you unpack them and run the binary00:31
DocScrutinizer05apt-get dist-upgrade nukes your system *for sure*00:31
DocScrutinizer05particularly the package management in maemo is debian on acid00:32
DocScrutinizer05some other stuff in rootfs also isn't exactly debian'ish00:32
Tekk_alright. any maemo repo happen to have emacs?00:33
DocScrutinizer05there's a chroot called easy-debian. Guess why ;-D00:33
DocScrutinizer05sure, i bet emacs available00:33
Tekk_also, there any way to search from app manager? I wasn't able to find it but I'm not too used to the maemo ui yet00:33
qwazixjust type00:34
qwazixwhen in list with all apps00:34
DocScrutinizer05in some rare places (package/app manager HAM, desktop) you _ahve_ to use the hw kbd and simply type, to start a search00:35 is enabled, and a search in all apps doesn't find emacs00:35
Tekk_but emacs24 is shown in that search00:35
DocScrutinizer05also contacts00:35
Tekk_do I need to apt-get it or is something wrong?00:35
DocScrutinizer05check your catalogs in HAM00:35 enabled, freemantle-1.3 distro, free non-free components00:36
Tekk_look about right?00:36
qwazixrare? also in contacts, modest, musicplayer00:36
qwazixbasically everywhere00:36
DocScrutinizer05   --> extras-devel repo00:37
DocScrutinizer05you either enable extras-devel repo in your HAM (beware, it takes literally 7 minutes to update then! and you for sure want to disable it again after installing what you were interested in!), or you get the .deb and install that00:38
DocScrutinizer05from  via
DocScrutinizer05you probably even can click on that *.deb URL in the browser (microB) and it should download and install the *.deb00:40
Win7Macso why no "gemeinnuetzigkeit", why the 10ft. pole? The possibility to hand out tax-relevant donation documents will for sure help raising funds00:40
DocScrutinizer05might not work, then you need to click on the downloaded file again, in filemanager00:40
DocScrutinizer05no it won't. and we ARE NOT gemeinnuetzig!00:41
DocScrutinizer05are we feeding starving children?00:41
Win7Macwe provide infra + code for community, that is gemein...00:41
DocScrutinizer05we are absolutely selfish00:41
DocScrutinizer05we have a common hobby00:42
Win7Macwe just can't earn money00:42
DocScrutinizer05but no mission to save the world00:42
Win7Mace.V.'s are fgor hobbyists00:42
DocScrutinizer05we _can_ earn money, we just have to pay tax - OMYGOD tax for 4kEUR _per_ _year_00:43
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DocScrutinizer05prolly they will donate instead of ask for us paying some tax ;-P00:44
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: you should adopt the habit to add some context and explanation to your posts00:45
DocScrutinizer05and avoid code tags, they are a pita to read, with those scrollbars00:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: well, the thread context is clear IMO. But in case you've missed it, I got working00:46
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DocScrutinizer05uhu, I can't tell that from the post you linked00:46
DocScrutinizer05fine anyway. congrats00:46
freemangordon"Socket to opened, fd=10, verify_res=0"00:46
Siceloreally? wow... /me goes to check00:47
Win7Maci still don't get what is bad about gemeinnützig - it will save us from paying taxes *AND* allows big donations with bonus for donator00:47
Win7MacI mean, whats the plus on dropping it?00:48
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Win7Macbecause we *CAN* be gemeinnuetzig if we want00:50
Win7Macand our income will be from donations or fees *only*00:51
Win7Macor what am I missing?00:51
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: "gemeinnuetzig" means you really have to be a help to the world at large, saving starving children or the last wolpertinger. And your tax exempt results in terribly painfull controls of your finances and way more harsh and rigid rules how to run the e.V.00:57
DocScrutinizer05honestly. stay away from "gemeinnuwetzig"! it's exactly the pitfall that HiFo fell in with 501(c)300:58
Win7Macfinances? - some donations and some expenses for hardware, certificates... thats it!00:59
DocScrutinizer05sure, what do you think why 501(c)3 never got completed, and why paypal locked the account00:59
DocScrutinizer05honestly, do what you like, but don't ask me then!01:00
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DocScrutinizer05I hate that "toldya" ever few days!01:01
LjL-Alpsthe N900 is a cute emulator platform thanks to its composite output :P01:04
Win7MacI'm not sure if 501(c)3 never got completed, and IIRC paypal locked the account because Rob didn't care. But I don't wanna argue, if you advise to drop it - ok, it's not nescessary at all01:07
DocScrutinizer05look wherever you like, for both 501(c)3 and gemeinnuetzig every sane howto recommends to get a *good* lawyer to get it right01:07
DocScrutinizer05buzzword "anerkannt"01:07
Win7MacPoint #15:
DocScrutinizer05I'm out01:08
Win7Macuups choose "Leifaden" from left menu01:08
DocScrutinizer05NO I WONT!!!!01:09
Win7Macaahhhh... ok, calm don't, i'll just shut up01:09
DocScrutinizer05listen buddy, I been member in a few more e.V. than this one. And every of them would for sure have lioved it to not pay taxes. But we had a lawyer to get our stuff right *despite* we were not "gemeinnuetzig"01:10
LjL-Alpsfreemangordon: oh boo, now nobody will write a floss SUPL server like i nudged them to!01:10
DocScrutinizer05I know what i'm talking about01:11
DocScrutinizer05Die Körperschaft muss gemeinnützige, mildtätige oder kirchliche Zwecke verfolgen.01:12
DocScrutinizer05Der Zweck muss selbstlos, ausschließlich und unmittelbar verfolgt werden.01:12
DocScrutinizer05Alle Voraussetzungen der Steuerbegünstigung müssen aus der Satzung ersichtlich sein. Die Satzung muss auch die Art der Zweckverwirklichung angeben.01:12
DocScrutinizer05read dat friggin wiki!!01:12
Win7Macshould have shared your experience earlier then, probably, anyway sorry for being somewhat arguing, but i really  like a good discussion about important stuff01:12
freemangordonLjL-Alps: we have a problem in certman, not selecting the correct root cert IMO. I guess fixing it is more important than having supl server :)01:12
LjL-Alpsheh, fair enough01:12
DocScrutinizer05nobody ever said "gemeinnuetziger e.V"01:13
DocScrutinizer05otherwise I had shared my knowledge more early01:13
Win7Mac§1-3 takes care of that, it's already in the draft01:13
DocScrutinizer05yeah, church of maemo01:13
DocScrutinizer05saving the exinguishing race of N90001:14
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DocScrutinizer05and then handing it to the poor.    apropos, what's with Robbiethe1st now?01:14
Win7Macchurch of maemo sounds cool...01:15
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DocScrutinizer05support for a commercial produc tis per se not gemeinnuetzig01:16
dos1Polish Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster is now having problems with registration as religious association01:17
DocScrutinizer05even when the product got discontinued01:17
dos1i wonder if Church of Maemo could have better luck ;)01:17
DocScrutinizer05neither is any pub, nor Apple no matter how much better they make the world with their products01:19
DocScrutinizer05and gemeinnuetzigkeit gets approved for the past, not for the future. so when you send out tax-exempt donation-receipts and then you _are_ _not_ gemeinnuetzig, guess who's going to bend over01:20
Win7Macsure, got to be responsible in life for what you do...01:21
Win7Macanyway, if you wanna sell Neo900 via HiFo you'd definetely have a problem with gemeinnuetzig01:22
DocScrutinizer05we _for_ _sure_ never ever will do such thing01:22
Win7Macso, thanks for input and lets move on01:22
DocScrutinizer05(we == GolDeliCo, even when i'm not)01:22
DocScrutinizer05that's close to criminal tax-evading01:23
Win7Maci thought we == kickstarter01:23
dos1yeah, I think Golden Delicious is fine with it being the seller of their hardware and won't release that position too easily :D01:24
Win7Macah ok, fine01:24
DocScrutinizer05and HiFo is no entity to better the world01:24
Win7MacJA, damn it, got you by now... ;)01:24
DocScrutinizer05HiFo 8ot any successor e.V.) is just the cashier of maemo community and council01:24
Win7Macthat's how i see it as well01:25
DocScrutinizer05then scratch any "gemeinnuetzig", managing an account is not making the world better01:26
DocScrutinizer05your Finanzamt will tell you, just a bit too late01:27
DocScrutinizer05otoh we pay taxes - actually income taxes - for errr what? 4000EUR / 12 months?01:28
DocScrutinizer05this must be... close to zilch anyway01:29
Win7Macproviding maemo infra to the world might come in for "making the world better" though ;)01:29
Win7Mac*count in01:29
DocScrutinizer05no, it's a almost commercial service01:29
DocScrutinizer05and HiFo is not exactly doing it01:29
Win7Macstrictly speaking, yes01:30
DocScrutinizer05well, no matter if or if not you can get gemnuetz, it will cost us way more than it earns us01:30
DocScrutinizer05waaaaaaay more01:30
DocScrutinizer05we probably have to pay 2/3 of the lawyer and steuerberater costs from our own pockets01:31
DocScrutinizer05after burning the 4k we have01:31
DocScrutinizer05been there, seen that01:31
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Win7Macdude... than share those experience here please, if this can even make it on your to-do-list... ;):01:33
Win7Macno, sorry01:34
DocScrutinizer05copy the chanlog!01:34
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Win7MacI'm not really serious01:34
Win7MacI mean of course your input is highly appreciated, just don't take any offense01:35
DocScrutinizer05custom, science, education, art, culture, international01:38
DocScrutinizer05understanding among nations01:38
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DocScrutinizer05nature conservancy, homeland, animal protection, development cooperation (international)01:40
dos1science - we do science on our phones; education - we educate people about our platform; art - wallpapers!01:40
DocScrutinizer05tradidtional custom01:41
DocScrutinizer05we still use a device that's obsolete since years01:41
dos1understanding among nations - our phones can be used for international calls01:42
dos1and you can install dictionary on them!01:43
jon_y>international calls01:43
jon_ynot really, by virtue of being made non-affordable01:43
jon_ysure, only if you are rich and famous01:44
dos1skype/gtalk/ekiga? ;)01:44
jon_yyeah that works01:44
jon_ybut not over traditional cell/landline01:44
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DocScrutinizer05the switzerland definition is pretty helpful: no benefit for yourself01:45
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dos1so we must find some android fanboys who'll just sign some papers for us :)01:45
DocScrutinizer05anyway the auditing is a PITA and nobody really wants to do that. i'd pay 4000EUR to not have to go through such auditing01:46
DocScrutinizer05and if you fail the auditing then it's time to bend over01:47
Win7Macas i said, you got me convinced01:47
DocScrutinizer05since they have no humor at all01:47
DocScrutinizer05and you wasted their time01:48
Win7Macm-m-m-my t-t-tax officer st-st-st-stutters...01:48
Win7MacI really have to tear myself not to laugh hard...01:49
DocScrutinizer05such laugh might be the most expensive one of your life01:49
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Win7Maci don't laugh, i help him finish the sentences01:50
Win7Macnp at all01:50
Win7Macit just sounds funny at times01:50
DocScrutinizer05duh, I wonder if GolDeliCo has any insurance for disasters. E.G a lightning strikes the package with the 300 SoCs01:53
DocScrutinizer05or even worse: the shelf with the 300 devices ready to get shipped01:54
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Tekk_even though it's already decided, weren't you guys talking about eligibility for e.V.?02:14
Tekk_actually I'll just shut up since I know nothing about how that stuff works in europe02:15
Win7Maceligibility for tax-exemption02:16
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Win7Mace.V. *can* have that, but it's a PITA as it seems02:17
Tekk_ah. since the qualifications came up I was going to point out that kde has been eV for a very long time, and you're in the same domain02:17
DocScrutinizer05e.V yes. tax-excempt - prolly no02:19
Tekk_that's where me not knowing anythign about the german organization things comes in :)02:19
DocScrutinizer05but yes, kde e.V is actually a pretty good example02:19
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DocScrutinizer05ooh maybe it is  ->
Win7Mac looks like a good resource02:22
Win7MacTekk_: thanks!02:22
DocScrutinizer05so they have sufficient turnover to make a tax-exempt audit worth it02:23
DocScrutinizer05best resource still seems wikipedia page to me02:24
Tekk_so germany distinguishes between non-profit and tax-exempt.02:24
Tekk_that was messing me up a bit. I don't think the US has that distinction, but I may bewrong02:24
DocScrutinizer05not really02:25
DocScrutinizer05well, _usually_ an e.V. is not profit oriented02:25
DocScrutinizer05though there are prominent exceptions, like TUEV02:26
Tekk_ah, my glance over the kde page made me think that an e.V. was by definition non-profit02:26
Tekk_but I'm multitaskign02:26
Tekk_as evidenced by my typos -.-02:26
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DocScrutinizer05tax exempt is granted to sozial and otherwise strictly non-profit and "helping" e.V. only02:27
DocScrutinizer05after a painful audit02:27
DocScrutinizer05which will get re-done every 3 years the latest02:28
Tekk_oh, to get semi back on topic02:28
DocScrutinizer05and might result in tax-exempt revoked retroactively for last 3 years02:28
Tekk_is there any way to back up my maemo install?02:28
Tekk_hold on, that may not cover it02:29
DocScrutinizer05that does02:29
Tekk_so backupmenu, save my backup somewhere, then I'm free to wipe my device?02:29
DocScrutinizer05only thing not backed up is kernel02:29
Tekk_there's the problem02:29
Tekk_I want to try out meego, but I'd also like to restore maemo once I'm done :P02:30
DocScrutinizer05uname -a, tag backup with kernel version02:30
DocScrutinizer05meego afaik doesn't touch your kernel02:30
DocScrutinizer05it comes with own alternative kernel on a alternative location, I *think*02:30
DocScrutinizer05meego howto will elaborate on it02:31
DocScrutinizer05that's stock kernel:  Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux02:32
DocScrutinizer05if you got sth different, you should make sure you know how to install that kernel before you restore any backup that's based on it02:33
DocScrutinizer05otherwise device will bootloop02:33
DocScrutinizer05stock kernel gets installed with regular rweflashing the COMBINED process02:34
infobotwell, combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see  or
DocScrutinizer05PR1.3 is fine as well02:35
infobothmm... maemo-flashing is
Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: actually it looks like it won't touch my rootfs anyway02:35
Tekk_the preferred way of installing meego seems to be actually installing on an sd card and booting from that02:35
DocScrutinizer05:nod: i am quite sure in installs on uSD or maybe eMMC02:36
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how many apps for meego might be available02:37
DocScrutinizer05for N900-meego02:37
DocScrutinizer05not meego-harmattan02:37
Win7Macwhat about N9-freemantle?02:38
DocScrutinizer05I even wonder if it's still supported in any way, or already bitrotten to fubar02:38
Tekk_considering how quick nokia was to even drop meego, I wouldn't be surprised if maemo was horribly bitrotten on the n902:39
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: go ahead, start a project!02:39
Win7Macsure ;)02:39
DocScrutinizer05seems nobody is really that much excited about the idea02:39
Win7Maclooks like02:40
DocScrutinizer05with Neo900 this might change02:40
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DocScrutinizer05once we prove that it *can* get ported, some weirdos might consider to actually rewrite all the blobs that won't work on N9 and port it to the coffin02:41
DocScrutinizer05meh, nobody is _that_ weird I guess02:42
Win7Macby then its 2015 and I'm on a Jolla I guess02:42
DocScrutinizer05particularly since with cordia you got a way better path to migrate look&feel of maemo fremantle to N9 while sacrificing binary compatibility02:43
DocScrutinizer05and when you already need to rework and recompile your app for N9, then why to a target that somehow mimiks fremantle when there's a more modern kernel and core system available on your target platform02:45
DocScrutinizer05doesn't make that much of any sense02:46
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Win7Machow can i strike text in tmo postß02:53
Win7Macits not in editor interface02:54
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kerionintendo just announced the nintendo 2ds03:02
keriowords fail me03:02
RiDDocScrutinizer05 i like your sun glasses03:02
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DocScrutinizer05meanwhile I got even better ones. RayBan03:11
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DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: one of the great mysteries03:12
DocScrutinizer05it works *somehow*03:13
DocScrutinizer05<s>, <S>, [strike], <dunno>03:13
DocScrutinizer05maybe google. vBulletin03:14
DocScrutinizer05or, even more weird: maybe just use the appropriate font somewgere and c&p the strike-out-text to the vBulletin editor?03:15
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RiDi spent 5€ on some cheap sunglasses03:24
RiDits probably gonna make me blind03:24
RiD[s] ?03:26
RiDnvm.. [strike] indeed03:26
Win7Macyeah, I got it, thanks03:26
RiDshouldn't it be relatively easy to add an extra button for that?03:27
Win7Macit's m.o...03:27
Win7Macwe get used to such things missing03:28
Win7Macbutler mishap03:34
DocScrutinizer05the only m.o specific thing probably is the default skin that I never use03:36
RiDyou do not use the default skin? I am disappointed03:37
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DocScrutinizer05damn, we should learn how to do kickstarter before we consider start an own one ;-) See
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RiDDocScrutinizer05 what's wrong?04:15
RiDoh i get it. We need spaceships04:17
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DocScrutinizer05and 5000GBP exclusive pledges, where a chip is named after you04:34
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Macernice to see the exchange support works with the n900 and outlook.com07:35
Macercalendar sync and all heh07:35
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Tekk_out of curiosity, how annoying is it to open the case?08:17
Tekk_since it's suggested that you properly solder the USB connection into place on the wiki08:17
Macernot difficult at all08:21
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Maceryou can probably do it with your fingernail08:21
Tekk_Macer: not just opening the back08:22
Tekk_at least I think08:22
Maceri cant remember exactly how i did it but it was fairly easy08:22
Tekk_hmm, looks like after opening up the back of the case it's just 4 small philips heads08:22
Maceronly thing to look out for was the cam module08:22
Maceri believe you have to unstick it from the board08:23
Macermine fell off on my first n90008:23
Macerit was a sad sad day heh08:23
Maceri'm on n900 #308:23
Tekk_I'm on my first, received today :)08:24
Tekk_Had my eye on one for years, though08:24
Macerthey are rather cheap nowadays08:24
Tekk_and my other phone had died08:24
Tekk_so n90008:24
SAiFWelcome to the club Tekk08:24
Macerthe n900 is sometimes the device you hate to love heh08:25
Tekk_how good's the n900 as far as self-hosting?08:25
Tekk_self-hosting a dev environment*08:25
Maceri have an e7 as a backup in case this one breaks08:25
Tekk_I figure if I can get host mode working I might be able to hook up a keyboard, throw something together08:25
Macerdifficult i believe but you would have to ask the devs here if one pops up08:25
Tekk_maybe a mediagoblin app08:26
Tekk_since I'm going on vacation soon08:26
Maceryou can always hook up a bt kb08:26
Tekk_don't have anything bt, actually08:26
Maceruse sshd on it08:26
Tekk_now that's an idea...08:26
Macerand ssh into it08:26
Macerthe pkg is in the repo08:26
Maceryou should at least update to cssu stable ;)08:27
Tekk_yep, already on cssu08:27
Tekk_and power kernel08:27
Tekk_but now my battery is dead, so I guess sshd has to wait :P08:27
Macerif youre going to dev... take over the sociality app08:27
Tekk_battery life is pretty impressive on this, for how old it is08:27
Macerand make it function perfectly :-D08:27
Macerespecially since it really multitasks08:28
Tekk_I mean, 4 year old phone, I was messing with it constantly for probably 7 hours08:28
Macernot the awkward method the rest do08:28
Tekk_with a lot of updating in package manager08:28
Maceridle it lasts forever08:28
Macerdays heh08:28
Macerthe guys here really managed to make it sip power08:29
DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: 4 Ph, 2 Tx08:29
DocScrutinizer05and be damn careful with the flat ribbon cable08:29
DocScrutinizer05you better watch some movies and read the service manual L1_208:30
DocScrutinizer05youtube has zillions of "disassembling N900" videos08:30
Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: it's an eventual thing for me08:30
Tekk_I don't trust myself enough with a soldering iron yet to touch my new toy that I've been waiting years for :P08:30
Macerlol. it is brand new. unless you do something horrible to the port im sure it will be fine for a while08:31
Macerif it is even in jeopardy at all08:31
Macernot all were doing it08:31
Tekk_nah, as far as I know it seems new08:31
Tekk_a few tiny scratches on the screen, but a transatlantic ship will do that08:32
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DocScrutinizer05step14 ff are nonsense08:36
SAiFDoc, pls link to the L1 and L2 service manual,08:37
DocScrutinizer05this helps to re-assemble ;-D08:39
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Macernot for nothing the lumia 1020 is a ver pretty looking device08:41
Macertoo bad it is only att heh08:41
DocScrutinizer05  is critical!08:43
Maceri wonder if they ever even bothered releasing wp7.8 for the 90008:43
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keriommh, does rescueOS work for you?12:26
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keriodoes rescueOS 1.1 work for anyone?13:39
kerioi get a missing library to run /bin/sh13:39
kerio~seen nin10113:40
infobotnin101 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11d 14h 24m 48s ago, saying: 'hardfalcon1: ResecueOS != meego rescue initrd.'.13:40
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infobotrumour has it, rescue-os is, or
kerioseriously though, did *anyone* try it?13:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: iwlist scan doesn't do anything in rescueOS13:50
keriois my wifi broken?13:50
keriowhat the fuck13:50
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ApicDa fuq?13:57
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kerionow i removed the battery, i'll wait like 10 minutes for everything to reset i guess13:59
kerio(btw: rescueos 1.1 is broken)13:59
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LjL-Alpsoh wow, BatteryGraph is non-free, never noticed before14:43
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RST38hA gambling website's favorite as Microsoft Corp.'s next chief executive officer is Stephen Elop, the Nokia CEO who has presided over a 62 percent decline in market value. Elop, a former Microsoft executive, has 5-to-1 odds to be hired as Steve Ballmer's replacement, according to Ladbrokes, the U.K.-based gambling operator. He leads a pool including internal candidates Kevin Turner and Julie Larson-Green and outsiders.15:53
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Guest17626N900 user since Aug2010 :D16:06
Guest17626very excited about the new upgrade :)16:06
SAiFeven after flashing incoming call display is not working in portrait mode..16:07
SAiFGuest17626, casted vote?16:07
Guest17626yes 450, but that was before i read all the thread16:07
Guest17626I would go higher16:08
SAiFand how would I know the kp version I installed..16:10
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Guest17626via your app manager/installer.. or uname in cli (i think)16:16
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SpeedEvilRST38h: Aww - you beat me.16:22
SpeedEvilRST38h: Well - surface is clearly one sort of platform that can burn16:23
DocScrutinizer05Guest17626: >=700?16:23
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SpeedEvilmost fun comment - QWOP seems to be a better choice than Elop.16:27
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RST38hSpeedEvil: I hope they just all jump into the cold wet water, like fucking rats following the piper, and drown16:37
* SpeedEvil sighs.16:37
RST38hThe world will be a better place without Microsoft "technologies"16:37
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: I don't know. Is your rescueOS broken maybe?16:50
DocScrutinizer05maybe rescueOS doesn't have the firmware for the WLAN, to upload? (is there any firmware upload happening during power-up of WLAN chip? IIRC there is)16:51
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, 1.1 doesn't work because there's no libncurses to run /bin/sh16:55
kerio1.0 does have the firmware16:55
DocScrutinizer05uhuh, so why or how is that affecting WLAN then?16:56
kerioit doesn't16:57
keriothat's why i claim that's my wifi that's broken16:57
kerioi might do a second test after reflashing pr1.316:58
DocScrutinizer05do that!16:58
keriobut not now16:58
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: what means "call display is not working in portrait mode" ?16:59
NIN101"no libncurses to run /bin/sh", he, wtf?17:01
kerioNIN101: honest17:02
keriokernel panic due to /bin/sh erroring out due to missing libncurses.something17:03
kerioi'm surprised nobody actually *tried* that image17:03
NIN101well, let me check.17:04
SAiFmeans when I get a call, I can't see whos calling. just black screen with ringtone and/or vibration17:04
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SAiFhowever, if when ringing, I slide up, It will show the caller name in landscape mode.17:05
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NIN101when does it kernel panic kerio?17:07
kerioduring boot time17:07
NIN101your image is broken17:07
kerioi mean, it just... does nothing17:07
NIN101is boots perfectly fine here17:07
kerioone sec17:07
infobotit has been said that rescue-os is, or
keriothe first one is the "official" site, right?17:07
NIN101no, the second one is the official site17:07
NIN101so whoever has rights to factinfo can actually kill the url with the IP.17:08
kerioinfobot: no, rescue-os is
infobotokay, kerio17:08
infobotit has been said that rescue-os is
kerio~literal rescueos17:08
infobot"rescueos" is "<reply>see rescue-os"17:08
kerioinfobot: no, rescueos is
infobotokay, kerio17:08
kerioinfobot: no, rescue-os is <reply>see rescueos17:08
infobotkerio: okay17:08
keriothe official name is rescueos with no space, right17:08
kerioNIN101: MD5 (rescueOS-1.1.img) = 5740b431843b8b8c40a36c09b1d7f60f17:09
keriocan you confirm? i have no gnupg installed at the moment17:09
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NIN101kerio: yes, looks good17:11
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, rescue-os is  or
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0517:13
SAiFthe only thing I  have done before getting a call was to do a restore of contacts using the default backup program.17:13
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: is your proximity sensor next to screenside camera covered by sth?17:14
DocScrutinizer05what's your system? stock PR1.3.1, CSSU-*??17:15
kerioNIN101: yay, it actually works17:15
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: please consider providing MD5SUMS file on your site17:17
kerioDocScrutinizer05: even in rescueos 1.1, wlan0     No scan results17:17
SAiFis stock now..17:17
SAiFdownloading cssu_ s over 2g17:17
jon_ymd5 sha256 sha384 sha512 pls :)17:17
jon_ycan't go wrong with multiple17:18
keriojust CRC32 the sha512 hash17:18
SAiFby the way, can you tell me best way t o install kp17:18
keriosudo apt-get install kernel-power-flasher17:18
jon_yI know I know, let's use a parity bit for the whole file17:18
keriojon_y: and then md5 the parity bit17:19
SAiFor from repository?17:19
kerioSAiF: that's from repository17:19
SAiFI mean HAM17:19
keriosame thing17:19
SAiFbut cleven says no suitable kp  found17:20
NIN101ok, you got your checksums + ketchup. But only gpg is serious, so keep using that.17:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: have you seen ?17:21
SAiFcleven from apt-get install cleven17:21
DocScrutinizer05what is it about?17:21
keriojust look at that guy's question17:21
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: jon_y: the chances to corrupt a file in such a way that the md5sum stays unchanged are smaller than your chances watching a neutron decay. So why for God's sake would we need sha256 sha384 sha512 ?17:24
DocScrutinizer05to confuse users?17:24
kerioDocScrutinizer05: sha512 has less collisions17:24
DocScrutinizer05neutron decay17:25
kerioit has... mh17:25
NIN101actually, if you use the sums to verify something instead of the gpg... you are doing something wrong anyway.17:25
kerioNIN101: i'm trying to avoid mistakes, not malice17:26
kerioand i don't have a trusted copy of your public key anyway17:26
NIN101well, true.17:26
DocScrutinizer05wtf? we're not signing something to protect it against NSA attacks17:26
kerioNIN101: i'll come to your house with a dna sampling machine, check your dna to see if you're really you, and then you can give me your public key17:27
DocScrutinizer05we're doing a CHECKSUM to detect transmission errors17:27
keriohopefully there's no backdoor in the dna sampling machine17:27
keriomh, i guess i'm building that myself then17:27
keriocan't trust it17:27
kerioDocScrutinizer05: ooh good point17:28
keriowe can just ask the NSA if the download had transmission errors17:28
DocScrutinizer05there's a backdoor in the sourcecode of the universe17:28
keriocan't deal with that17:28
xesDocScrutinizer05: yep, it's called human stupidity17:28
SAiFI didnt see that coming17:29
DocScrutinizer05no, that's the result17:29
xesbtw.. NIN101 thanks for the sums and your rescueos... but please add again MC :-)17:30
DocScrutinizer05when God created the universe, he didn't plan to add humans. But some rogue hacker exploited the backdoor17:30
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DocScrutinizer05all the mess we see happen (and the mess that human race creates) is just a result of that, the visible effects of the antivirus process trying to fight the exploit17:32
NIN101xes: unlikely this happens in the near future.17:32
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DocScrutinizer05well, mc would bring a LOT of useful functionality17:34
DocScrutinizer05in some respect mc is similar to busybox17:35
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DocScrutinizer05though in fact it just depends on the original tools17:35
DocScrutinizer05e.g. I think mc can't look into .tgz and .deb when tar and gzip are not installed17:36
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NIN101for me it's quite simple: I don't know MC. It was once there, eating space. I dunno how useful it was on the N900 keyboard so I nuked it. But anyway, you normally don't use rescueOS that often (unless you are a rescueOS junkie like kerio :-) ) and if you do, well, you can modify the image and help yourself. If you use it sometimes, you can deal with the command line mv cp cat etc. Therefore it is not a priority in the barely alive rescueOS devel17:39
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SAiFany ideas?18:00
DocScrutinizer05not really. Observe18:00
DocScrutinizer05or rather, not now18:01
SAiFare you speaking abt what I said earlier?18:02
DocScrutinizer05the error description isn't inspiring to me18:02
DocScrutinizer05are you not?18:02
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SAiFShould I describe in any other way..18:02
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xesSAiF:  check if you have some dbus script activated while receiving calls, ringtoned or something similar18:03
SAiFflashed at noon18:03
DocScrutinizer05yes, more verbose. When it happens, what exactly happens, how often it happens, what you did, which OS you're running, if you checked for other similar problems showing up etc pp18:03
SAiFI had this same exact issue, before flashing. I thought it was because of different softwares I installed.18:04
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DocScrutinizer05also check dialer menu screen orientation setting, switch it back and forth, disallow auto-orientation18:04
xes...also if the screen starts rotating during a call the ui opens slowly. Opening the keyb you force the rotation18:05
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SAiFxes, It could be chance.. let me check18:05
DocScrutinizer05the file where dialer stores orientation settings might be corrupt. It lives soemwhere in $HOME iirc, which doesn't get reset when you reflash rootfs18:06
SAiFI flashed both rootfs and emmc18:07
* DocScrutinizer05 is supposed to know that stuff, since author of starhash-enabler, but forgot18:07
DocScrutinizer05and the problem persists despite you didn't restore stuff?18:07
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SAiFchecked both ways,  as xes said, it doesnt work either way18:10
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SAiFI am not sure, I didnt checked without restoreing contacts.18:10
xesinternal nokia backup?18:12
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SAiFwell.. onething worked..18:12
SAiFthe orientation was set to portrait mode by default.18:13
SAiFnow when I changed that to auto, as Doc said, I started working.18:13
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SAiFbut only sometimes.. :(18:16
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SAiFnow its not working at all. just like before18:17
xesit could also be that some db is corrupted slowing down the dialer's number lookup function. Make some test with the phone clear18:19
SAiFgoing to restore original settings. shall i proceed?18:20
SAiFor clear device?18:20
xesi would save manually all the contacts/sms folders to restore them without nokia backup18:21
SAiFi just cleared without waiting for reply18:22
SAiFwell, cleared device. but still when i ring into n900, display goes black18:25
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xeskeep the dialer active, screen active, receive a call... what happens?18:27
SAiFI opened the dailing pad and ringed for 5 secs. screen went black for 5secs and when I disconnected ringing, screen became active again18:30
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xesthis is the usual behavior when the phone is near something. Proximity sensor covered or broken18:31
SAiFIts not covered by anything.18:32
SAiFhow could I know if the proximity sensor is working.. in dmesg18:32
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SAiFwell I suppose, if its an issue with proximity sensor, someone pls tell me how to disable proximity sensor18:39
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cehtehiirc you can see its output somewhere in /sys .. and in very dark environment one can see its IR-led barely glowing red19:05
SAiFsorry I am in a well lit office now.19:05
cehtehget some blanket and pull it over your head :)19:06
SAiFmy boss will jump through the window seeing me..:)19:07
xesanother phone with a camera can see the ir blinking19:07
SAiFlet me check.19:07
RiDi was the first one to discover that19:07
cehtehor install some app which uses the ir sensor19:08
cehtehpcam uses it for focussing19:08
cehtehfor example19:08
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SAiFwell I could nt see anything19:11
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SAiFthe one in near the front cam right?19:14
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SAiFanyone using irc chat on meamo IM conversation? or atleast is it possible?19:19
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, fixribbon is
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RiDah, who wants a 2nd hand lcd?19:26
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DocScrutinizer05SAiF: watch -n 1 cat /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state19:31
DocScrutinizer05RiD: hm?19:32
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: usually should show "open" until you place some object close in front of corner with camera19:33
RiDn900 lcd, second handed. The usual two white spots are there19:33
DocScrutinizer05any dirt in it?19:33
DocScrutinizer05err screen protector19:34
DocScrutinizer05RiD: hmmm19:35
DocScrutinizer05how much?19:35
SAiFhave a screenprotector19:35
DocScrutinizer05SAiF: then you got it19:35
RiDeh.. lemme check these chinese prices19:35
SAiFI am afraid to peel it off now.19:35
DocScrutinizer05use scotchtape19:35
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SAiFIf i remove it now, I will surely make scractes on display by tomorrow morning?19:36
DocScrutinizer05hmm, the screen isn't THAT delicate19:36
SAiFI will buy another screenprotector, and remove this one, and will check it and then apply new one.19:36
DocScrutinizer05also you could just lift off the corner over camera19:37
RiDSAiF my n900 is 3 and 2 months years old, it's got many micro scratches but nothing deep19:37
RiD(i'm lying. But that deep hole is not my fault. Stupid young brother thinks it's cool to play around rotating a usb cable)19:37
DocScrutinizer05keep dust away, and after test put it down again19:37
RiDhappened like on the 2nd week since i owned the n900. I was mad19:37
DocScrutinizer05I would cry19:38
RiDlucky it was on the side, but "NEVER FORGET" applies19:38
RiDside = but still where i use touchscreen19:38
RiDmy english is deteriorating so much today19:39
infobotmethinks xyawn is nap19:39
infobotit has been said that xyawn is coffee19:39
SAiFany way not tonight,,,  may be day after tomorrow.. I will tell you what happens then..19:40
RiDCheapest i found on ebay was 28.96$ for an lcd with ribbon cable + tools19:40
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DocScrutinizer05and that's usually without white dots19:41
RiDand the ribbon cable is broken ._.19:41
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SAiFwhat is the white dots?19:42
RiDlight bleeding19:42
RiDtwo spots are slightly brighter than everything else19:42
RiDtwo or w/e, tends to be two19:42
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DocScrutinizer05excessive pressure. known effect19:43
SAiFyes I have got them too. I will see it clearly in white background..19:44
RiDDocScrutinizer05 a ribbon cable is around 4$, right?19:44
DocScrutinizer05mechanical destruction of LCD structures19:44
DocScrutinizer05though I paid ~719:44
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DocScrutinizer05still a bargain for what components it comes with19:44
RiDi guess i could sell my lcd for 5€ heh19:45
RiDbut the shipping could ruin the price19:45
DocScrutinizer05err, wait. The LCD with flex PCB?19:45
DocScrutinizer05with frame?19:45
DocScrutinizer05a complete upper half?19:46
RiDnope, i don't have a good condition complete upper half19:46
RiDapart from the one that is on my n90019:46
RiDkinda got scammed months ago19:46
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xesdigitizer+frame =15€  lcd = 25€  ribbon+camera+sens =7€19:49
xes(spare parts in the first drawer)19:50
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SAiFI bought a good qualtiy, not original digitizer for 15Euro19:51
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DocScrutinizer05SAiF: I just tested proxi sensor.19:51
RiDthat ribbon cable that connects one half to the another19:53
RiDcan it be removed without being damaged, and put into another (lol) slider/metal thingy?19:53
xesRiD: yes?19:56
RiDthat sounds good.19:56
DocScrutinizer05it's not really easy though19:57
DocScrutinizer05since it's glued to the metal frame afaik19:58
RiDthat's what i suspected19:58
RiDcouldn't the glue kinda ruin it19:58
DocScrutinizer05most likely not, since most N900 work fro years19:59
RiDi mean when taking the cable off and putting it in another19:59
DocScrutinizer05I guess Nokia picked some ds-sticky that's not doing dmage to the PCB19:59
DocScrutinizer05yes, exactly19:59
DocScrutinizer05that's the problem19:59
DocScrutinizer05rather get a new cable20:00
RiDyeah :\20:00
DocScrutinizer05well, "cable"20:00
DocScrutinizer05[2013-08-29 18:49:43] <xes> [...]  ribbon+camera+sens =7€20:00
xesa good phon, and a good temperature could help..20:02
xesfor the glue, i mean20:02
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RiDthere you go:
RiDdo you like my bed20:06
Tekk_are there any working youtube apps? I tried YTube and cutube but neither of them seem to actually be able to complete a search20:06
RiDtry cutetube.20:06
RiD(not cutetube-QML)20:06
Tekk_so presumably youtube was youtube and broke that at some point :P20:06
Tekk_oh, okay20:06
RiDyou get a youtube app + few extras (such as video/audio downloader, etc)20:07
RiDi think it also does dailymotion20:07
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Tekk_oh, what's with network performance?20:19
Tekk_even at 600 mhz this phone kicks my last android phone's ass, but as soon anything involving network usage seems to be slowed to a crawl20:19
Tekk_as soon as anything involves*20:20
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Tekk_like I've been waiting on cutetube to show me a profile's upload list for probably 10 minutes now20:25
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RiDsomething's wrong then20:30
Tekk_but I'm not sure what could be. This happened before and after cssu update, before and after power kernel20:31
Tekk_and I'm on wifi that's fine, not a cell network20:31
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Timmyhow can I disable Lens Cover Sensor? It is broken and camera doesn't work because the whole sdcard board is fucked up20:33
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Tekk_also, does anyone have recommendations for an irc client? I saw irssi in the repos, as well as xchat, but I remember seeing a forum post about how the xhcat ui isn't too good on maemo21:06
Tekk_and I'm not a huge fan of irssi, especially without an alt key21:06
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SpeedEvilxchat worked well for me21:13
SpeedEvilonce setup right21:13
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FIQTekk_I have no issues with the UI21:15
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RiDi use xchat21:20
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Tekk_okay, maybe the thread I read was old21:23
FIQxchat ui is largely unchanged from 201121:24
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Tekk_yeah, something's definitely up with my networking21:32
Tekk_taking forever to connect to freenode. What'd be the best way to try to diagnose this?21:33
Tekk_it took ~1 minute to connect to freenode21:33
Tekk_by which I mean just connect the socket. I'm still not /nick'd or anything21:34
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Tekk_yeah, xchat can't even properly connect to freenode :/21:48
DocScrutinizer05Tekk_: xchat, with custom settings FTQ21:50
infoboti guess jrxchat is
DocScrutinizer05FTW even21:50
Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: not much help when I can't even connect though :P21:51
DocScrutinizer05your network must be fux0red21:51
Tekk_nah, it was happening both on 3g and wifi21:52
Tekk_and my wifi's fine on literally everything but the n90021:52
DocScrutinizer05or you got a browserwindow open that hogs your poor N900 RAM21:52
DocScrutinizer05then I dunno21:52
Tekk_any way I could try to diagnose what's going on?21:52
DocScrutinizer05not any known problem21:52
DocScrutinizer05usual network diagnostics, like ping, traceroute, mtr21:53
Tekk_actually just to make sure. idle ram usage of ~100 MB is fine?21:53
Tekk_looking around using htop21:53
DocScrutinizer05you rather should look for your swap usage. Free RAM is pretty unusual on maemo21:54
Tekk_well I'm literally not doing anything but htop21:54
Tekk_and swap is at 70 mb21:54
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Tekk_I have swappolube installed too21:55
Tekk_using the recommended settings on that21:55
DocScrutinizer05should be fine21:55
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DocScrutinizer05check your powersaving mode on WLAN21:55
DocScrutinizer05you might encounter compatibility issues on "medium" or "high"21:56
DocScrutinizer05depending on how crappy your AP21:56
Tekk_powersaving on the n900 or on the AP?21:57
DocScrutinizer05Timmy: bad luck. Disabling the cmera door sensor is not exactly easy. You probably will need a kernel hack to do so, or at least some severe console magic messing with sysfs21:58
LjL-Alpsi think he means on the N900 (at least, there's that option on it)21:58
* Tekk_ is looking21:59
DocScrutinizer05AP has no powersaving mode, bot some other parameters related that sometimes improve things a bit when tweaking them. But generally only a firmware update or hw update on AP can fix those problems21:59
DocScrutinizer05some AP simply don't support or poorly support the PSM used by N90022:00
DocScrutinizer05particularly old AP22:00
Tekk_yeah, but this wasn't just on wlan22:01
Tekk_this was on 3g too22:01
DocScrutinizer05install syslog, check what's wrong22:01
Tekk_well that might just be it22:08
Tekk_wlan0 is switching between LOWSIGNAL and HIGHSIGNAL literally hundreds of times a second22:08
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Tekk_actually this seems to be when it was logged, not when it happened22:09
Tekk_but there's a LOT of switching between LOW and HIGH22:09
DocScrutinizer05hmm, that indicates problems with your WLAN, though no unusual ones22:13
DocScrutinizer05and for sure shouldn't have any impact on 3G22:14
Tekk_let me switch to 3g and look in syslog22:15
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DocScrutinizer05massive switching between HIGH and LOW can be related to a broken config of your AP. Sth like mixedmode, or whatever22:17
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DocScrutinizer05or even N22:18
DocScrutinizer05if i'm not mistaken then N900 WLAN supports B/G only22:18
DocScrutinizer05mixed operaton of N and B/G devices in one AP domain might cause issues22:19
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Tekk_changed AP out of mixedmode and into I think G22:25
Tekk_seems to have helped freenode a bit, at least22:26
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Tekk_~8s ping :/22:28
DocScrutinizer05still PSM22:28
Tekk_err, not ping22:28
Tekk_actually yeah ping22:28
Tekk_8s for anything to get to freenode and back, it seems22:28
DocScrutinizer05or you got crappy RF environment, lots of collisions from other AP using same channel22:29
Tekk_yeah, same constant switching between HIGHSIGNAL and LOW22:30
Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: did nokia go really cheap on the antenna or something?22:31
DocScrutinizer05not particularly22:31
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DocScrutinizer05I seem to recall similar reports, and sorry I can't say what been the fix or if there been any22:32
DocScrutinizer05google for maemo n900 HIGHSIGNAL LOWSIGNAL22:32
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Tekk_DocScrutinizer05: there was one mailing list thread on it with no resolution, and one passing mention on irc 2 years ago :/22:38
sixwheeledbeastTekk_: check BMO there's reports there, no resolution IIRC22:43
FIQooh a whole week passed without any filesystem corruptions!22:47
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Tekk_sixwheeledbeast: I'm not seeing it on bmo, what search terms were you using?22:50
ShadowJKN900 wifi antenna is the best on any mobile device I've had22:53
sixwheeledbeastTekk_: momplz, I'll try and find it for you22:53
sixwheeledbeastTekk_: bug 910122:55
povbotBug Wifi doesn't enter power saving mode properly (wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up)22:55
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Tekk_ah, I saw that bug but the title seemed like it was irrelevant22:56
Tekk_I may be more helpful, so I guess I'll sign up for an account22:56
Tekk_since I can reproduce this even with power save mode off, and it's constant for me :P22:56
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cehteh   lmao23:15
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DocScrutinizer05FLOP for president!! ;-P23:19
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