IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-08-25

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lexikone week offline! :O without any inet connection! and without my N900 !! it was terrible.. however welcome back01:13
nox-y no n900?  no mobile coverage?01:14
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qwerty123is there any way to use vkb with easy debian in n90006:14
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qwerty123and change to musca window manager in easy debian??!06:22
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DocScrutinizer05you won't see an answer to your questions when you leave the channel 20min after asking06:28
DocScrutinizer05you also chosen a time of day (UTC) that's not ideal to get any answer at all, since most of the channel's users are meanwile actually sleeping (Europe TZ)06:30
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qwerty123okay thanks for the info! should i ask about it in forum?06:35
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DocScrutinizer05I think this might be too lightweight for tmo06:55
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DocScrutinizer05resp prolly already answered in some thread which just wait to be found by you06:56
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DocScrutinizer05for vkb however I might already guess it's very complicated or impossible to use that in a chroot like easydeb06:58
qwerty123okay thank you Doc. :)06:58
qwerty123harmanttan n n810 has vkb in easy deb!06:59
SAiFDoc never sleeps07:01
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qwerty123well,needed DocS sometime back,when i had n continue to have problem with my powertop c0 bein 98.4 even after a newly flashed device!! freemangordon suggested to wait for him after running out of options!07:07
DocScrutinizer05sorry, you have to wait a little bit longer, since even when I never sleep, I have times busy with other things07:24
qwerty123sure :)07:29
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ebzzryIs camera-ui2 exclusive to CSSU-Testing?07:34
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DocScrutinizer05I'm currently actively pushing gta04-n900 project as already suggested by me on community-ML and tmo, in direct chats with Nikolaus (GolDeliCo). Nikolaus needs a (original) N900 to disassemble it and take dimensions of the whole thing with caliper. I consider to send a device to him, sponsored from HiFo-funds19:53
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DocScrutinizer05@council: what do you think about sponsoring a device for Nikolaus? OR would you prefer finding a broken device for him, or even a loaner device he would return to the one offering it?19:57
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DocScrutinizer05chem|st: merlin1991: thedead1440: sixwheeledbeast: qwazix: ^^^^19:58
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, +1 for sponsoring a device19:59
DocScrutinizer05also what does board think about it?19:59
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DocScrutinizer05hi qwazix! :)  thanks for your vote20:01
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: Jaffa: Win7Mac: what's board's notion?20:02
lexikin czech republic n900 coasts something about 50-100 dolars... +1 for sponsoring :)20:02
lexik(on internet..)20:03
DocScrutinizer05lexik: I have a hard time spotting decent offers in czech internet20:03
DocScrutinizer05due to the language barrier20:04
DocScrutinizer05fleabay has ~17 N900 offered ATM20:04
DocScrutinizer05 for example20:05
lexikPali and me are from czech, however n900 is ~cheap~ worldwide20:06
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lexikand if he need just case, it will be super-cheap to find broken one20:07
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DocScrutinizer05I'd think Nikolaus should receive a basically working device, so he can check details like LCD interface (which he needs to adapt in GTA04 to use the N900 ACX565AKM instead the Openmoko Topoly LCD), the digitizer, etc-20:14
DocScrutinizer05also i'd get proactive and send him one from my shelf of spare N900 and later on fill up my shelf with the one ordered anew20:16
DocScrutinizer05to avoid weeks of waiting for parcel to arrive20:17
DocScrutinizer05I have no broken N900 I could send to him20:17
DocScrutinizer05lexik: nevertheless I'm highly interested to learn about (and get some of) those cheap czech N90020:19
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qwazixDocScrutinizer05, crazy idea but if we are doing franken900's why not go all the way and use, say, the case of E7?20:32
DocScrutinizer05hmm right20:32
DocScrutinizer05I have to muse about that a bit20:33
qwazixOr the case of N810 :)20:34
DocScrutinizer05we would need to find out about all the (lectronic) parts we can't produce ourselves, starting at display and not ending at GSM aerial. Need to either find datasheets and/or schematics that really are useful (means: with part labels etc). Think flex-cable, camera module (maybe), domesheet (kbd) etc pp20:35
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if N810 spare cases are available at all. The starting point actually been that N900 2nd source cases are abundance20:36
DocScrutinizer05while the GTA04 original GTA01/2 case is as rare an object like the Topoly LCD20:37
qwazixok N810 seems to be out, very few listings on ebay20:37
DocScrutinizer05also GSM aerial integration in N810 is a PITA20:38
qwazixE7 still has a lot though20:38
DocScrutinizer05spare cases? LCDs?20:38
qwazixspare cases. LCD's might be a problem: nHD20:39
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I guess the N900-factor is something we don't want to miss20:39
DocScrutinizer05also e7 is c-ts, no?20:39
DocScrutinizer05so we could christianize that one GTA04-N950E and sell it for EUR1800 ;-P20:40
qwazixexactly :P !20:41
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qwazixE7 glass is not fused with lcd like N9 so we could use any other lcd in theory20:42
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qwazix4" is pretty common20:42
DocScrutinizer05actually aside from building the hardware, our main problem is finding a small crew of really professional hackers to port fremantle to the GTA04 platform20:42
qwazixAs I said back when I was thinking about the Nexus 7 I think the way to go is to just build hildon on a modern platform and recompile extras, instead of porting fremantle20:44
Sicelowouldn't be easier to take a 'standard distro, eg debian, then addd hildon?20:44
Siceloqwazix: +120:44
DocScrutinizer05so far I spot 4..5 major problems domains: bootloader, graphicslib, DSP, libisi/modem, and depending on hw adaption PA20:44
qwazixI have built hildon on latest ubuntu, I have some problems with themes, but it works20:45
qwazix(also that will mean a shitload of new apps from ubuntu touch)20:45
qwazixthe same thing could be done with mer instead of ubuntu, I just said ubuntu as it's really close to maemo (upstart, apt)20:46
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DocScrutinizer05I'd like to keep ABI compatibility, so N900 binaries can run on GTA04-n90020:46
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qwazixMy humble opinion is that it's pointless. Most distros don't keep binary compatibility from version to version either, we are not microsoft.20:48
DocScrutinizer05a true N900 replacement, that just needs its own kernel and some core system adaptions (think BME), otherwise works exactly same like N900 on frematle extras repos20:48
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DocScrutinizer05I wanna keep fremantle20:49
DocScrutinizer05incl all the services20:49
qwazixWe should just do fremantle-2.0 extras and recompile everything we can20:49
DocScrutinizer05this is a huuuge selling point20:49
DocScrutinizer05to make replacing a broken or too "old" and lame N900 by a GTA04-n900 a nobrainer for users20:50
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DocScrutinizer05same apps? check.   Same UI? check.   Use all customizations? check (with minor exceptions that are really difficult, like H-E-N or bme-replacement)20:52
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DocScrutinizer05use same knowledge base? check20:52
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DocScrutinizer05qwazix: we still could (or even migh have to) do a fremantle-gta04 set of repos, e.g all with support for 3730 and thumb by default. Still we need compatibility on all the above mentioned problem domains20:55
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: you're free to quote me on that story ^^^ in MWKN ;-)20:56
DocScrutinizer05Nikolaus would need at least 200 "preorders" to start on that enterprise for real20:57
qwazixI still think we should get rid the deprecated maemo core. Things are becoming more and more difficult for people due to old packages. It's not maemo, we love, it's what we can do with it. And a recent distro with GTK and Qt plus hildon can fulfill that20:57
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DocScrutinizer05I disagree. What I love is the available apps ready built as well as what I can do with maemo fremantle (get further apps that are not yet built)20:59
DocScrutinizer05I had a smartphone I been able to do with whatever I liked. It been called GTA02 and major problem been the lack of apps available ready to install from a repo21:00
qwazixBut apps are trivial to recompile, compared to the effort of making, say, csd run on new hardware21:00
qwazixI mean, 95% of extras should just work under any debian based distro21:00
WizzupI would also suggest (without serious knowledge) not to imitate maemo drivers, but rather fix the few very specific packages21:01
DocScrutinizer05another problem been the poor optimization of kernel and system to the hw platform GTA02, resulting in abysmal powersaving. This hasn't changed much until this very day21:01
* Wizzup hides21:01
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: csd supposed to work ootb on a decently adapted kernel on a OMAP platform, no?21:02
PaliI sent email to Nokia with request for source code of maemo521:02
DocScrutinizer05Pali: you're golden :-D21:03
qwazixprobably, I have no idea, I just thought that being closed would cause some problems21:03
PaliI got automatic reply that only written request are accepted21:03
Paliso then I found time and sent letter to Nokia21:03
qwazixPali, written as in hand-written?21:03
Palisent to Nokia postal address21:04
qwazixomg, what poor nokia has come to...21:04
Paliand I got answer (letter) with DVD21:04
Palion letter was written that "is is open source code and look on wikipedia what is means"21:05
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DocScrutinizer05lemme guess, it been a copy of linux main branch?21:05
PaliI opened DVD and there one BIG file21:05
PaliISO image of CD :D:D:D21:05
PaliI mounted that ISO image via loopback21:05
Paliand there was only copy of repository.maemo.org21:05
Palinothing new21:06
DocScrutinizer05and surprise surprise, it had flasher-3,5 and images21:06
Palibut I never got DVD with ISO image :D:D:D21:06
Palinot only open source software which is in maemo scrastchbox sdk21:06
Palibut this was really funny, they do not know how to burn iso image to DVD... in nokia21:07
DocScrutinizer05Pali: see backscroll21:07
DocScrutinizer05we might need your expertise21:07
DocScrutinizer05long term project21:07
DocScrutinizer05port KP52 to a new platform, incl all drivers ;-D21:08
DocScrutinizer05well, slightly new21:08
PaliDocScrutinizer05: problem is that I do not have time :-(21:08
Paliwhy KP52 and not upstream kernel?21:08
Palilinux 2.6.28 is old and dead21:09
DocScrutinizer05because of the fremantle specific nokia patches that are not to be found in upstream21:09
PaliDocScrutinizer05: this can be fixed21:09
DocScrutinizer05so basically for same reason why we don't use kernel-3.6 on fremantle N90021:09
Paliin CSSU-devel I removing needs for nokia custom patches21:09
PaliI can use 3.10 on fremantle :-)21:09
Palibut not working correclty...21:10
DocScrutinizer05the GTA04-n900 shall first instance mimik a true N900 as closely as possible21:10
DocScrutinizer05simply with faster CPU and more RAM21:10
PaliDocScrutinizer05: needed maemo5 interfaces I forward-ported to 3.10 kernel and which was not needed I removed from maemo scripts21:11
Paliproblematic is only GSM part21:11
Paliwhich not working and I do not know how to fix it :-(21:11
DocScrutinizer05this has to see major redesign anyway21:11
DocScrutinizer05libisi-compatible top to AT-cmdset bottom21:12
Palifreemangordon wrote that he maybe could fix that problem...21:12
Palilike he fixed harmattan DSP to work on fremantle21:12
DocScrutinizer05well that's for new kernel on N90021:12
Palineed to strace nokia applications21:13
Paliand see why it failing21:13
DocScrutinizer05what i'm talking about is basically old kernel on new modem, not BB5 cmt21:13
Paliold kernel with new HW is really big problem21:13
DocScrutinizer05not that much, i guess21:14
Paliand problem is that nobody will help you with this21:14
DocScrutinizer05that's the point21:14
Palibecause kernel devs do not care about 2.6.2821:14
DocScrutinizer05when nobody is interested in a faster newer N900 with original fremantle maemo running on it, it won't happen21:15
Palireally if you want maemo5 on new HW, just reuse my patches which are in CSSU-devel and my patches for 3.10 kernel21:15
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Palithis is easy and better way21:16
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DocScrutinizer05and what stops us from doing same on N900? there must be a reason why we keep KP on 2.6.28 for N90021:16
Palireason is that in nokia patched 2.6.28 kernel are dirty hacks for omap3 power save mode21:17
Paliand there are hacked camera drivers21:17
Paliand working GSM/3G drivers21:17
Paliwhich are not in upstream21:17
DocScrutinizer05and it's exactly those dirty hacks we need for GTA04-N900 as well21:17
Paligta04 is omap3?21:18
DocScrutinizer05since we don't need yetz another mer that cuts through battery in no time, thanks to "we want leete new kernel, no matter what it costs us" policy21:18
DocScrutinizer05yes, OMAP421:19
DocScrutinizer05like N921:19
DocScrutinizer05err nope21:19
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Palin9 is omap3 and it is different as omap421:19
DocScrutinizer05still omap3 I think21:19
DocScrutinizer05anyway GTA04 is 363021:20
DocScrutinizer05or rather DL37000 or sth21:20
PaliDocScrutinizer05: do you know something about jolla HW?21:21
Palimaybe if they have device with qwerty keyboard and open bootloader + some public spec it could be possible to use maemo521:22
DocScrutinizer05the secret souce of a decent working embedded system with good powersaving *are* those nasty jacks you dispise so much21:22
DocScrutinizer05and hacks even21:22
DocScrutinizer05Pali: GTA04 exists. We plan to slightly modify it in shape and design to fit into N900 case and display21:23
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DocScrutinizer05the idea of that being to offer a *true* alternative for N900 users who broke their device and just want a new possibly better one, to continue exactly where they stopped on their beloved rover RX5121:24
Palisounds good, but I'm afraid it is not easy and dont belive it happen in near future...21:25
DocScrutinizer05and it seems there are still a few out there who love fremantle21:26
Palime too21:26
Palibut I do not have time...21:26
DocScrutinizer05porting fremantle to beagleboard been done by stskeeps years ago21:26
Palischool obligations21:26
DocScrutinizer05GTA04 is based on that protoboard, like N9 is21:26
DocScrutinizer05hi ShadowJK21:27
ShadowJKbeagleboard original was like n900's omap side21:27
DocScrutinizer05err right21:27
ShadowJKBut they kept swapping in the latest omap3 and ram+nand21:27
ShadowJKSo latest version is pretty much like N921:28
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DocScrutinizer05how do you like the GTA04-N900 idea?21:28
ShadowJKSounds marginally less doomed than ideas of desoldering beagleboards to replace N900 SoC21:30
DocScrutinizer05we will keep charging as in GTA04 (via tpd65950, no bq), but I hope to make changes to adopt pretty much all other peripherals except modem (and GPS) exactly like on N90021:30
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: keep in mind GTA04 exists21:31
DocScrutinizer05there are 100s of those devices being sold already21:31
ShadowJK<qwazix> I still think we should get rid the deprecated maemo core. Things are becoming more and more difficult for people due to old packages. It's not maemo, we love, it's what we can do with it. And a recent distro with GTK and Qt plus hildon can fulfill that21:31
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DocScrutinizer05I wholeheartedly disagree. It's been the "own distro" that kept GTA0x from flying21:32
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: I think there is bigger problem as linux n900 phone... I'm not able to find some working notebook where can be linux installed and working...21:32
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Palievery new HW is with that fucking UEFI and enabled secureboot21:32
ShadowJKI thought it could be disabled?21:33
DocScrutinizer05not on ARM21:33
Paliand all hotkeys and buttons are managed via WMI21:33
Palion ARM, UEFI cannot be disabled21:33
ShadowJKI think pali is talking about x86 laptops21:33
Palion x86 somewhere yes21:33
Palibut some x86 firmware not allow you to update UEFI list of bootloaders also when secureboot is disabled21:34
DocScrutinizer05well, i'm out. Busy with GTA04, no time for netbooks21:34
Mac3DocScrutinizer05: yeah seems like it was the ad blocker21:34
Mac3fail heh21:34
DocScrutinizer05Mac3: I already augmented ~jrtools21:35
infobotrumour has it, jrtools is
Mac3oh heh21:36
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: I have a hard time seeing how this whole "future for maemo" thing could fly when nobody is the slightest bit enthusiastic about it21:37
Palichain how changing brightness working on my hp: I press decrease btightness button --> emit ACPI brigtness event --> kernel handle it and translate to key code --> userspace daemon (or KDE/...) read it and tel kernel to change brightness --> kernel will call ACPI method for that --> ACPI bytecode of that method will emit signal need to change brightness --> kernel handle this event and tell it to drivers which watching for event --> graphics21:39
Paliradeon drm driver will get it and write to some register something: this will change brightness finally --> then kernel emit event that brightness was changed21:39
Palithis is not normal ^^^^21:39
DocScrutinizer05that's hardly on topic21:39
DocScrutinizer05if you think a working linux netbook has higher priority than maemo future, then maybe discuss in in #netbook21:40
Mac3seems like quite a few steps to change brightness21:41
Mac3DocScrutinizer05: didnt you scream at me that maemo has no future on other devices a while back? ;)21:42
DocScrutinizer05the point is: this is NOT "another" device. This is a device tailored to duplicate N90021:43
Mac3which device?21:43
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DocScrutinizer05the gta04-n900 variant of it21:44
DocScrutinizer05yet to come21:44
DocScrutinizer05in a original N900 case, with original n900 display/ts21:44
Mac3seems vaporware :) have you gotten one yet?21:45
DocScrutinizer05and I'm just trying to find experts who are optimistic about "and with original fremantle running on it"21:45
Mac3made in bavaria?21:45
DocScrutinizer05sure, 18 months ago21:45
DocScrutinizer05no vaporware21:46
Mac3what does it come with stock?21:46
DocScrutinizer05100s sold already21:46
Mac3os wise21:46
DocScrutinizer05whatever you want21:46
DocScrutinizer05it doesn't "come with"21:46
DocScrutinizer05it's a hw hacker product, not a complete consumer product21:46
Mac3ah ok.21:47
Mac3and you can speak on it? heh21:47
Mac3wow. seems interesting21:47
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DocScrutinizer05if phonecalls is what you meant21:47
Mac3especially if it is truly open21:47
DocScrutinizer05it is21:47
Mac3ys. i did21:47
Mac3well. have to admit. that is very interesting21:47
DocScrutinizer05it hardly can get more open21:47
Mac3although... a8 is rather ancient21:48
DocScrutinizer05currently some guys in the openmoko community bitch at Nikolaus to share the gerber files needed to produce the PCB21:48
Mac3hardware is always the issue huh?21:49
Mac3is he producing them too slowly?21:49
DocScrutinizer05Mac3: if you can afford buying 1mio SoCs from TI and paying a 100 man team to develop a device based on that SoC during 6 months, you're free to do better than Nikolaus21:49
Mac3cant see there being much demand for them21:49
Mac3lol. i wasnt being judgmental... i was just pointing out a fact.21:50
DocScrutinizer05the fact is that it's a fine 99% replacement for N900, just faster and more RAM21:50
Mac3sure. not judging21:51
DocScrutinizer05and 100% free21:51
Mac3so did you manage to get maemo on it?21:51
DocScrutinizer05and we can do tweaks to the hw to all our liking21:51
Mac3or are you having problems with the closed bits still? heh21:51
DocScrutinizer05Mac3: sorry, we're still developing. Not the right time to ask such end consumer questions21:52
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Mac3oh. i just figured the closed bits of maemo would still prove problematic21:52
DocScrutinizer05that's what I just tried to discuss here, when guys digressed to netbooks and whatnot21:53
Mac3plus wouldnt you run into awkward licensing issues with telepathy?21:53
DocScrutinizer05o.O ???21:53
Mac3i thought telepathy was closed21:53
DocScrutinizer05how is there any licencing in telepathy?21:53
Mac3guess i'm wrong?21:54
DocScrutinizer05I have no problem whatsoever to copy and use any closed blob of maemo on another platform21:54
Mac3oh. nokia doesnt restrict that sort of use?21:54
DocScrutinizer05maemo got donated to community, incl the right to redistribute blobs21:54
Mac3oh. nice21:54
Mac3guess that helps heh21:55
LjL-Alpssurely telepathy isn't closed since i believe it's part of GNOME?21:55
Mac3LjL-Alps: not sure. i remember someone discussing it here or maybe in symbian21:56
DocScrutinizer05after all such blobs are vastly useless on any other hw platform anyway... except this tailored-to-fit gta04 hw21:56
Mac3DocScrutinizer05: well. hoefully the other closed bits dont prove to be a problem21:56
DocScrutinizer05telepathy is FOSS for all I know21:56
Mac3but it would be awesome to see if you can mange to get it consumer workable21:56
Mac3and eliminate the blobs if possible21:56
Mac3you might find more maemo support doing that21:57
DocScrutinizer05*I* won't do that21:57
Mac3well... whoever does these things. the maemo dev pool is rather shallow heh21:57
DocScrutinizer05it's *you* - the community - who needs to make it happen21:57
DocScrutinizer05I'm just your humble coordinator who happens to know another guy who is a wizard at hw design and manufacturing21:58
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DocScrutinizer05and interested in my idea to convert gta04 into a N900-look-alike21:59
Mac3one begets the other21:59
DocScrutinizer05hw wise21:59
Mac3i would say the "community" starts with development21:59
Mac3not with end users ;)21:59
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Mac3i doubt anybody would care if it looks like an n90021:59
DocScrutinizer05whatever you say21:59
Mac3so long as it has maemo on it21:59
Mac3well. you asked to discuss it... so I am discussing ;)22:00
raccoon_i dunno about that; i for one chose n900 for the keyboard22:00
raccoon_it being maemo actually was an awesome bonus22:01
raccoon_but now i don't ever want to change away from maemo... or the keyboard.22:01
trxDocScrutinizer05 that would actualy be great22:01
DocScrutinizer05so GTA04-N900 is for you22:02
DocScrutinizer05it won't be cheap! at *least* as much as N900 cost when it came out22:02
LjL-Alpsi'm probably not going to use the N900 as my main phone, fancy buying a Galaxy Nexus or something else that runs Replicant :( feel bit guilty though22:02
DocScrutinizer05the more devices we get preordered, the cheaper it gets (or rather, the less expensive)22:03
DocScrutinizer05buying 200 SoC and buying 1000 SoCs makes already a huge difference22:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: wouldn't the dialer be completely different, anyway?22:04
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I hope for our cracks to code a janus lib that interfaces from libisi API to plain AT commandset on modem interface22:05
kerioand shouldn't we *want* a dialer?22:06
kerioa new*22:06
DocScrutinizer05prolly simpler than the already existing interface in FSO to interface to BB5 ISI interface22:06
DocScrutinizer05err, did I really use same wort 3 times in one sentence?22:06
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DocScrutinizer05what i meant: Mickey Lauer wrote a BB5 interface in FSO framework, so the other way arounf should also be feasible22:07
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DocScrutinizer05I actually asked for a FSO to libisi compatibility layer for long time, thus slipping in FSO framework into maemo/meego ;-)22:08
keriowhat graphics does the gta04 have?22:08
DocScrutinizer05same as N90022:08
keriothat's convenient22:08
DocScrutinizer05it's a 3630 basically22:08
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keriodoes it have the same issues with the thumb2 ISA as the 3430?22:11
ShadowJKMy guess would be that it's a newer revision and has many hw errata fixed22:13
kerioyour *hope*22:13
keriowho was the 3630 made for?22:14
ShadowJKPart of the reason nobody wants to deal with the thumb errata in N900's 3430, is that newer 3430 had that issue fixed and was widely available on beagleboards22:14
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DocScrutinizer05thus [2013-08-25 19:55:27] <DocScrutinizer05> qwazix: we still could (or even migh have to) do a fremantle-gta04 set of repos, e.g all with support for 3730 and thumb by default.22:20
raccoon_DocScrutinizer05: i don't care about the cost, if i can trust it to function the same as the n900 (with maemo + whatever parts needed/found for this project) i'm all game22:21
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kerioalright raccoon_ doesn't care about the cost22:21
raccoon_is there a crowdfunding project or otherwise more informative details available on this?22:21
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kerioraccoon_: it's going to cost 250k€22:22
keriowe got our funds!22:22
DocScrutinizer05raccoon_: we're in the initial phase to set up something like that22:22
raccoon_kerio: you want me to explicitly prefix each line withe "personally, it's my humble opinion that..."?22:22
raccoon_i take for granted you won't run up the price just for the sake of it, therefor i assume the price will justify the costs. for a fucking awesome phone.22:23
keriono i meant that you, not caring about the costs, can fund the whole thing :D22:23
DocScrutinizer05raccoon_: for now you might utter your interest so Nikolaus can hear it. Maybe on
DocScrutinizer05clearly mention gta04-N90022:24
raccoon_kerio: if i had that kinda monies, it'd be my pleasure :-P22:24
raccoon_DocScrutinizer05: aight, cool. will spread the words to some n900 enthusiasts at our hackerspace too22:24
DocScrutinizer05cool! we need that so much!22:24
DocScrutinizer05we also need hackers who are willing to port maemo fremantle to that platform22:25
raccoon_just make the project accessible and i'll help you out in any way i can22:26
kerioon the one hand, if the hardware isn't similar enough, we might have to make something completely new22:26
DocScrutinizer05it shouldn't be too hard I guess. But anyway we need to start with evaluation _how_ hard it actually will get22:26
kerioon the other hand, if the hardware isn't similar enough we can get rid of all the maemo cruft22:26
raccoon_i mean, make projects public (easy to contribute to, at least as easy to share info about)22:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: mer with hildon-desktop!22:26
DocScrutinizer05mer never arrived at proper power management, iirc22:27
kerioyou can't do proper power management without the hardware to manage22:28
kerioit never arrived to proper power management on n900 because nobody cared22:28
DocScrutinizer05raccoon_: fro a start you could /join #openmoko-cdevel, where a small part of the discussion takes place22:28
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kerioi would join too, but i can offer no help whatsoever with stuff like this :s22:29
raccoon_DocScrutinizer05: awesome, was about to ask22:29
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DocScrutinizer05also check community@lists.openmoko.or ML22:30
DocScrutinizer05I also posted a suggestion on maemo community ML, several weeks ago, in parallel to openmoko ML22:32 == ?22:32
raccoon_ah ok22:32
raccoon_not the same then22:32
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DocScrutinizer05it is the same22:32
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DocScrutinizer05just my local mail addr it sends new post from22:33
LjL-Alpswhy don't you raise $32m on indiegogo for a new N90022:33
DocScrutinizer05LjL-Alps: first of all: because *nobody* can build new N900 nowadays. You can't source the parts anymore22:34
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DocScrutinizer05some parts like BB5 you probably never could22:34
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DocScrutinizer05second when we build new device, we at least use the best SoC that still offers 100% compatibility22:35
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DocScrutinizer053rd we won't ever rise 32mio22:36
DocScrutinizer05100k was already fine ;-D22:36
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LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: erm, it was a joke about the Ubuntu Edge, not a question as to why you aren't trying to replicate the N900 exactly... :P22:36
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DocScrutinizer05raccoon_: OOPS sorry, I messed up maemo ML with OM ML22:38
DocScrutinizer05raccoon_: here's the correct link:
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lexikDocScrutinizer05: hi :) this n900 is for 2699CZK --> something about 140 dolars... this is cheap, in my opinion. Mine device is from the same server ( and it cost 2000CZK (100 dolars..) but i really dont know if it is cheaper than in other countries22:44
DocScrutinizer05thanks a lot!22:45
DocScrutinizer05is this new or used one?22:45
lexikused one22:45
trxsays good kondition in the link22:45
DocScrutinizer05hmm, used ones are dangerous22:46
lexiknot from this server :) trust me :) it is not ebay similar :)22:47
DocScrutinizer05and not much more expensive here in Germany or anywhere else on the internet. For Nikolaus it might suffice nevertheless22:47
LjL-Alpseh, bought an N900 on ebay for €85, was perfectly fine so far as i can tell, unused accessories22:47
DocScrutinizer05used ones often have semi-borked USB and/or broken cmt22:47
lexikdoes it matter?22:48
DocScrutinizer05not for nikolaus22:48
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lexikfor what he need n900 pcd?22:48
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lexikhe just need the case and screen, or not?22:48
DocScrutinizer05he needs a complete N900 to adapt the GTA04 PCB to fit into the case and to the LCD and kbd etc22:48
LjL-Alpsi think ebay is alright if you use some good judgement when picking sellers22:48
raccoon_DocScrutinizer05: cheers!22:49
DocScrutinizer05:-) even22:49
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-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ”.ãÇ™áô4#¥;Ì´K8¶îPÄ¿ü¥¤ì¿/vØâÍÞBõOçøÌ�§Ù·8y€œ;Ú5º\©pÚRÕÚ#ñ1c‰ÜxC>¸â±I‡ÒXÉWñÃG¹H{9¿›M÷ÿ]IýWSå|™ÆÝ€I®�}³³®cÙÍLLH+$’`³¾ÎX¸ì½À÷¥Ç4Ï9QçdÁ8éÞß�°a›¨oz€¬KIkð/ê’OÐã¶Ãð>é/žHá»Æ<úh¤è·Ûø®Øñm\¤ûªøg14S(ÐÃÛÂY=`áöÏ22:50
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-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ë„ó¶ŒÛo_Šs´ãqæÓ“Có�áV¢éÄXKí´é”¦ŠY­€½å[8¡ÑãêШ!wœ�›éÂ=ÈŸÉ|(ÕÄ™î�÷_;xb-^�žDqØÕ¯äUû[æ¹3Îä¹#¿•ÎHyìe†ø2LÝð~‡#ô¢~0‹®�&:/ßñØN+[ÙÚ2䕳¸�j�­DÀ’Íä©ùê‰/Î�b]ªrß¿¸žÁ•DjÔ‚«úÿß?3RmÆòkY›mô)çØʤR΃¤ä•“÷¥×,üQ0¾YT`22:50
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ožË6‰.æ÷††':l¿¢=|*ȵŠÆrn|€‡„·ëåjg%NºbM72xª¯Îû”„ÉòÄcÏDe*[¢Wö¾Žp9ëÜ©ö×J6_¥Ã‡sãdœVŽEYdÖŸ�ˆÊ=¶�ïC»I{�…�»iVdpöÞÙå´`Ë\Éi³[{s…ÄåŠß”üÂhZ9ù{%ëЕ[²›,!ÙD˜çå(D¢¯j˜v!ýQ,þ¡î¶ò¥{8�‚mÖÆË­2�ùfÚüÖîKÐ�[IkþÈz¾M¡oQÇáE22:50
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: 5ëû�ošÙ1WŽˆ4à(ú%À^V+nZ? íâi˜�öÎM[+<”½ýÚà~(&¾�¦Z«Ìl~#×@s,¯˜Ü¶Ws&Z±Êos(žl‡ýˆP«=Ý™ é¶!Z†>ñqš­-¥EaX¶þ¢�ªø̹—^ê”þ¶�Ôù»TÃå¿cÑøR|À�ZùF%!OïþÂW3ïB#WÛ¼ãÓ©‰Å·³�E¿ÄuCÎTøHÏüa³‚=º€^$‘ÅÁƒšþ�¬šø˜YÃFÈŠUöÍõ§ãÛÍöìO22:50
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-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: Eº^lˆ”­ïENYα}�%ò?—2¸v¦~Rº›4ñÞ¾YÚ�œÜÙ'hËÂÕ²ƒdÓ& IŠ4Ë@Ú�ð;ðíV‹i™¹±_`Y仄Á»õ_‹Â@nyÔ"FQ¸É˜Ž<d÷.¿Äƒñ/øt¬º¡.βGãÔvqñC�Hš:†¡ô`ç¹�ZE™«óêrÙâÕì=z¥bhrøC=|K´ääDvÞç§ñßšöŠ<Cƒ­\À5¹ÞcŒƒê¶"ÚWðiºkˆ¼,3dº‘ÕÅhÈ�w(o÷ŒJh22:50
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: dÊ{£^"¨^W!MR®SiKÞobpõĺ$"Ö%±gWsô(O5s&$æmýfÚË‚ôù¨“ÍæB‘gg‰èÜú‹—ü6sÇ�þÊyÕ†›§Œ> J%ÿëNh}Mî—~6–º|jÝÙ!A<$ž“Ú­aýˆ`¬p;Öf.É&¤­4?OÇ¢¥át~)G$îP·íûóäýŽ_º*ÁÕ•’bYBB¡s¥QþØCçUÔ¼døuØXî4ûûü{vÔÂF�¹£ºð>|ûÃØyJVÊÅ3W0ïVPaS22:50
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: )©¶ÐaMA,¿'”yj¥×®ü6™Òe+äÆŠáwÕ;+»ù涮�ìÌÒ5å­tŽEøɦ¶¬â1'hCò…mÕGq½Ð=o¦»=Ù-;¶{½ëµ™O¾}"OÕFô{ƒŒÇw¤d§Gä^-¢Õõײõa�óâ,îärž<ÒD¬›¬tlp°A*2/‡W_!°™^˸4”l/GFìx’Lvr@[ÕVP¯1¹Eîð+¹/¬icý%ÞlzVH:ý°k¿úÿN”óÌÀ‡¥œ„fäÀa»O1_­w22:50
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ÜJ¼~"H�ƒR“™€$×>(�×~�–ÎǶhÚ°ÖVdMXáýæÍši3ŒïG�ØhÅû!‚SeZä‰ñ`£·ºÐ“©Í€vi¸GÕ/a!¥Í2À³þ¨ù(¡’48¸.zX�'ˆ'±"§äë˜ó2GE¡õÕA@¯yÞ'£(]ZRrQõ„¢½àÈ¿é¨XÜjËgâ¿bÒŸ/v­G:åfÄ›Bùl_–!,ÜÁˆà•Hç4dQãMmy¤„EŒ/�íiÛñ¶ù|“H•¯nn´ø¹Õù5ÛßÂÛ-22:50
Milhousethis guy was just kicked from the openelec channel for spamming22:50
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-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: žèpNµÕ“Ø$I'úÒ·þ£d›eŒ7¡9“HFžpB÷HJ¢l‘`€~G€Ø_8œ†€c_bÖ{�\¬C7|GQ�äÍÊ7ÆQ?ÂtÄâÿ��ºV†¯hœðuúa=ûTžwbX©´Á\jø�!;æß²…ZéA“X5=‘HRÁȹ,²ü�ž’™�Ö2A©²†6ÑË9ç_5&JG×U+3Õ²ÏÛÅþ@b‡f¬q�¨N”C�H4ñŸU3OÏàØÊ?|„‹–Šq-A>ú°édScjÆøü>³¯22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ‚³˜Ìß½L›ÝàÍÒ%Åæ±9ÝŽ”æí~œÀa¹&ß…>m�E`ŽÈ³ËÑânÞ°b·´mÁÐ]>"÷¢¾z'nj9¡ª!+ô^|@çx;¦.­±ZÜ·¥¢z©˜ N¯µaþ¾N~†»Ê*ÑfWA4¥ÞgPxÑzyL#>•¡ÔÊx{2êKL{á½½˜˜¸LvÄ‚‚o¼Rï§+�d�wjFu>X²Ñ³iNæ§57jÞÔ—³¸Å´§,Æ}Ϥ�ɇ¯�r(ï�¢%Îm%Ýše‹ˆOÖ22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ˜9éW#§Q—p5-KÍ`Q'ïþr½B]X¥ÅWÈ�(ÂqG¿…'’rò8ÏðÃHô-êG›þP}÷U¨ÃcYWÆqEÿj·Úð÷´è=:FÛÂuÝñ,ñ1+jî³KƒzµŸ[2¦"`j¢lÀs&>¡¶NðþÆ’2(ª|½2ÍÅ”k¶¥>�Ú8Ab”»Q�ãåÕÜó½¢óסÅ3¸Â.pŽÖPôíŠn6PÀa¾­´˜¡—eAí.ˆÇõþU6Ô™ðÎÕ(þÇ¿måD=ÿÕú‘ŸNDºžr£22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ©k�Nì5âÓG?cŠPªÜÈùá3�S7f�v;J½¥ƒfpyŒË0бåtøÚTΚ4‰¡jFØj{´øHW4Xªöàù¹Tïf4ŸQÚª2À<×)b!Ôyúv£L¼Œ@�îÉâ¨þÿÏ@š(¾9•R¢HÀЃÙÕßÛ=ò�¾Ú¹¹`�NlM™Hõµ™ºtíú(Ç15ÊÙlŠóGÊ{ª·ò“²¡±ëD/N@éÙvø»wuRžÂ\¤v'¸#¤Æ͸ÓFQ'ßV¦ž¼†ž¯Z¼%�ÿv6~E22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: aĵ«¡çÓÍ*ómr¯i±ÛÏXð¸å8€qPhMÓé'ZXL\[ñIq:6þÜÁgÉ|cÈ.ü‡sŠ áQ"´¤Éáçt±kÀóãñC¤Ìµ'ýµŸËŽÉUaàÿ¥%`™Kñ@ØÝ~šÀK…«@"m§‚-�7f�â‘u7oý÷Íž¾"ÍéSžðäíJÁ~cž9‰ :£Èd8†ŸçÆûëÉ·¿°ÛôKšË#åKø–3{v‰GW‘Êcò.ð²øÌè½~•À=‚QtWž?dï™ÿT&»22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: žt:tHõrnǘÌðTæ±w×?˜¿š„+Ù¥rK™3Po·PØ#þ•%¦èÖ‚�µ&O¹þôs¶Tž~õ:0OþKÜ·øðá½·¬TÃrCÿDqï⺪îgt¯A®CÉþ?û&¦:‰IõN™š\Z�Dkîruîq&�o×Ûˆ[}{**¾Øp:`/ÊÙ�dqБJÀX…y‡×4†!–fGpÉJoÑnïàAŸnMçnx†rFÕNª1_¾áÙ§iÒ`028kçäÍëµ>�å-}5¥”Jqî22:51
Milhousewe got a channel admin to kick dfgdfh?22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ûqéøÖ?¯kᕱ™�ÒÄ]D!´Úg‰†n�ÃLŽÎ³Ã‡ðóÞéôÌ,Ç*:*rôà¼Rþ•÷‘–zöMŒV̉›b®‡®”D#e¤â&¬¶×âGäI)¯ö,Ü|`!%/™q8Æío©V5�<YYðè,†÷{AN*ßÿKG°MdŒP^šQ§.FÐåY_«%ë#`•^Êè�]¢ªÒ|.Åñî;T3-H=§ué^­vÕßj¹�îvï‘ü…4“5\|¡¾Ç1`ýP�×0{áé…ø/¹…�¨`D22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ÖñúÔ$g3A!7ª1<û4KÁ<2÷=É´6W&Ž ˜PÔ�;Äu1„·Â±Hâ{k?‘R�Ý¡:k©�´Ê"¥ª„ÍN&¨¹¥Žä6h"Õiòp2À1qvÿIÑÓOƒöΪ7àAHŸ�æñÜ%›™Z’‡…4¹±±í`=Qÿñ“4æ5߈ÿ6Ð3Ûʬ/ê™Î‹¦áîY6Ez-?ͦL/KÖs/¿^€:5¨ŒwE.ž:üÅ4òõ(eBàh�9Ø^ÕÛyÝŠrXt»÷芹ϷÐql�22:51
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer0522:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ({D¢!¦ÙYA¦Ò³±ô¡~2¿þùvšEÖ–roÛ®{ð¤�}­ÓÂÏïë_Ñó¯ô/EÛ—Šu]CëÝ­¤æ\d'ë3õ´š-üøAˆ\QûÊ_ÍÝ3‡Ò �©¾(¶ÚIñ?!`/i!î‡�ýôaE[mKlõ‡£_ß‘"Êe­:á¤ýXÒÌ�ü�¥'ã+Ò`BË�žÉæml¥Oqq¥O[1˜˜pC­;à8ò¡Œ³6m=Q„xÿWf-é¿×u¬äÛ_i#+Öìâ„/“œ+ª¿´£áêÎn22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: ¹ÑÈP³ˆç7ÂÏÿ4M|x/6쬂l¯‚ž²éÆOƦì«Ë-*3æpQ½F’­ú8‰’¢%ø<­3¹é‹&ìÍ�÷§ŽSõ­™ÒGwn]oMÉ|­t…›ØÁ÷|~;)àcÐÃÒñQ«E¹[_ÇœCÜ]ãeáàQ´Ö£A€ê×b>·ºzòÂË+5I˜jUôAg3ÆùÆ7à³l“[�éõ‡èŒ(úYky%Ÿ×?ö”¡ŒÌàq†êôî tšRuäÞ?ÃÅã·:ÔˆU¼;)tе£!ˆƒ22:51
-dfgdfh- Çàøèôðîâàííûå æ-äîâñêèå ïèñüìåíà: š†ÒJÿ¶®YóF0ü¢™oþ@щœ ¾?+ê};jÔ'˹d@ºkS°½¥è457ñ�/ ‡ÐYÔE9Iþ~}7ðÀÐÒ«Ô�´Œ_"~Ï7ûá”ÿ1YüÉÆÓá¥øå±³Ÿà~´°Û÷’Ÿ#�áó#ŠV`Ry§¹A¡zÌŽ®EÍÍèu}Æ›¶ÏëÓ½ãqýiØ[ó¥ÂBô”/V8䣇jmc;þ:ú1!<¾lG°jí¡òëÐOQ/ÚLî7A¨t¥{!ýÞúbZåÔdª?r¿Ë¾`22:51
Milhousecheers doc, if indeed it was you22:51
DocScrutinizer05no alas not22:51
DocScrutinizer05nfc how to stop it22:51
LjL-Alpsnobody did anything22:51
lexikweird guy22:51
Milhousemaybe he's just moved on to annoy another channel22:51
LjL-Alpsstill, it seems to have stopped by itself so far22:51
DocScrutinizer05there's no user -dfgdfh and "no messages from outside" is set22:52
LjL-AlpsDocScrutinizer05: uhm, yes there is a user dfgdfh22:52
dfgdfh[22:49:53] <Milhouse> cheers doc, if indeed it was you22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:01] <@DocScrutinizer05> no alas not22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:07] <@DocScrutinizer05> nfc how to stop it22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:10] <@DocScrutinizer05> yet22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:11] <LjL-Alps> nobody did anything22:52
LjL-Alpsand they're in this channel22:52
dfgdfh[22:49:53] <Milhouse> cheers doc, if indeed it was you22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:01] <@DocScrutinizer05> no alas not22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:07] <@DocScrutinizer05> nfc how to stop it22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:10] <@DocScrutinizer05> yet22:52
dfgdfh[22:50:11] <LjL-Alps> nobody did anything22:52
*** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: +b dfgdfh!*@*22:52
*** dfgdfh was kicked by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!)22:52
Raimu"The call is coming from inside the house!"22:53
LjL-Alpsthis guy wasn't helping my data cap22:53
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*** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: +q *!*@
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DocScrutinizer05[Whois] dfgdfh is ~1@ (One who has the truth is the strongest)22:56
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LjL-Alpsyes, that's his IP for sure22:56
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DocScrutinizer05somebody willing to do temporary +o?22:58
DocScrutinizer05I have to leave22:58
WizzupI guess22:59
DocScrutinizer05you guess what?22:59
WizzupI guess I can do that, if no one else wants to22:59
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o Wizzup22:59
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer0523:00
DocScrutinizer05+ cheers23:00
* LjL-Alps welcomes the new wizzy overlord23:00
lexikokey... back to the gta04-n900 :) (i really like this idea).. it will be a good idea to: 1) make an wiki page with info for new "users" and some progress, 2) maybe a thread about it, 3) and finnaly that nice "CSSU brick banner" for donation option (cant it be funded via hildon PP?)23:00
LjL-Alpsi probably wouldn't fund an indie smartphone project because of cost... but i must say, i'd consider one that were actually intended to run *fully* on free software23:02
lexikall we need now is just one n900 :D23:02
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if I finished that line when the fool kicked in: RL calling, so I'm away for now. I hope I kicked off someting this weekend. Please continue to spread the word and discuss our options esp regarding fremantle with everybody interested23:02
LjL-Alpsi won't give you mine! i just got it!23:02
lexiki dont want yours n900 :D23:03
DocScrutinizer05I think I can handle the N900 "sample" issue23:03
DocScrutinizer05maybe with some help from lexik. I'll ping you if I need to23:04
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: btw, how long did you want me to op?23:04
DocScrutinizer05doesn't matter, just stay opped23:04
DocScrutinizer05for now23:04
WizzupI presume my conn will manage ;-)23:04
LjL-Alpsshut up and stay opped23:04
DocScrutinizer05cya folks23:05
LjL-Alpssee you23:05
lexikoh yeah, and a new "codename" for it, because gta04-n900 is not as userfriendly as "MaemoX900" or my favorite: "L3X900" :D23:06
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DocScrutinizer05I invited some maybe interested users from #openmoko "side"23:13
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DocScrutinizer05ok, cul8r23:14
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dos1New900 :D23:21
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raccoon_why not N9001 ?23:26
raccoon_it's over 9000...23:26
raccoon_dos1: haha23:27
raccoon_maybe "!N900", but that might only make programmers chuckle23:27
raccoon_and others confused23:27
dos1or maybe Neo90023:28
dos1name with nods to both Maemo and Openmoko roots ;)23:28
lexikand the os will be neomo?23:29
lexiksome my Neo900 dreams: 3.10 kernel, android bootable, everything thumb compiled, cost under 200 dolars :D23:35
dos13.10 kernel - checked, GTA04 already has one23:35
dos1Android - there's ongoing work in Replicant project to support it23:36
raccoon_yeah neo900 was really good23:36
dos1thumb compiled - I think it is in most distros already available for it23:36
dos1cost - well... you would need milions of buyers to achieve this price :)23:37
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lexikthe 3.10 kernel problem is not with the HW but with the maemo itself23:38
dos1about current GTA04: 1 buyer: 3000 EUR, 10 buyers: 1500 EUR, 1000 buyers: 490 (better CPU included), 10k: 390 (new plastic case included), 100k: 290, 1M: 240, 10M: 19923:39
lexikhm.. okey, maybe kickstarter? :D23:39
lexik1k buyers is nonimpossible :)23:40
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lexikbut that will need some Jolla like campaign23:40
dos1lexik: ouch, yeah. But I think if we'll port OS to completely new hardware, then there's no point in limiting ourselves to old kernel23:40
dos1we'll have lots of things to fix regardless of version :D23:40
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dos1hmm, I missed one milestone: 100 buyers: 590 EUR ;)23:43
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lexikthe steps: buy a one experimental n900 for openmoko community, make this mod to a few more n900's from maemo community members -- test it, develop HW specific patches and release "Maemo reloaded" - neomo :), create and kickstarter project and start an linux-users/geeks-targeted campaign23:45
lexikoh yeah and finally: profit23:46
lexikwhat we can do now: create a wiki page, thread and a call for donations on tmo :)23:48
dos1I'm all excited about this idea23:48
dos1just yesterday I've created a draft for new GTA04 homepage -
dos1but maybe we'll wait and use something like that when neo900 arrives :)23:49
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