IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-08-22

WizardNumberNextchears00:01
WizardNumberNextgot most00:01
WizardNumberNextof what I had previously00:01
DocScrutinizer05anyway if you *really want to mess with HAM and apt catalogs/repos on file level, this is what you're looking for: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list   and   http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues00:03
DocScrutinizer05everything else apt reöated gets overwritten by HAM eventually00:04
DocScrutinizer05related*00:04
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DocScrutinizer05or is ignored by HAM but not by fapman and apt-get, which makes for rather confusing behaviour that nobody really appreciates00:05
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WizardNumberNextham is fine for as long as it installs what I want to install, otherwise I use apt00:06
DocScrutinizer05the orthodox way to get catalogs installed is to click on following link (or similar links to other .install files), on N900 in microB or xchat: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install00:07
DocScrutinizer05see:00:07
DocScrutinizer05~jrtools00:07
infobotit has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools00:07
DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#Additional_Repositories  actually00:08
WizardNumberNextok I have kp52. Is it fine to install cssu-thumb?00:09
DocScrutinizer05nothing wrong with using apt in general, you just should know which commands you *never* must use (unless you know *extremely* good what you're doing): apt-get upgrade and any form of autoremove (and probably also -f)00:09
DocScrutinizer05WizardNumberNext: for cssu-thunmb you first want to install cssu00:10
WizardNumberNextI avoid doing anything fancy with aprt00:10
DocScrutinizer05~cssu00:10
infobotmethinks cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU00:10
WizardNumberNextyeah I am definitely not going straight to thumb00:10
WizardNumberNextfirst testing00:10
DocScrutinizer05cssu-thumb basing on cssu as cssu bases on fremantle00:11
DocScrutinizer05think of e.g. pacman repositories for opensuse: they are not a replacement but an auxiliary supplementary repo that needs the base installation repo underneath00:12
raccoon_hey, what's the etymology behind the name choice "thumb"?00:12
DocScrutinizer05nfc00:12
WizardNumberNextthumbnail00:12
DocScrutinizer05ask ARM00:12
* DocScrutinizer05 shouts "OUCH" each time he hears "thumbnailer"00:13
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DocScrutinizer05user      1950  0.0  1.3  14912  3296 ?        Ssl  17:08   0:06 /usr/libexec/hildon-thumbnailerd00:14
DocScrutinizer05do I really want a deamon on my device that's nailing my thumbs?00:15
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raccoon_that sounds highly uncomfortable00:21
raccoon_nailing thumb demon of maemo00:21
raccoon_maybe he's the one breaking those usb micro ports00:22
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NeutrinoPowerhi, why don't work the gprs/gsm/umts... internet access on my N900 anymore? I tried the sim on a android-smartphone with success but on Maemo I only get an IP with gprs-device and cannot reach a website..00:59
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NeutrinoPowerI will ask tomorrow again01:03
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: actually, fucking up CAL won't do much01:22
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kerioraccoon_: are you talking about cssu-thumb?01:23
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: raccoon_ talked about /usr/libexec/hildon-thumbnailerd ;-)03:23
keriok03:23
keriommh, maybe it's because thumb nails are kinda small?03:24
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DocScrutinizer05some weirdos (actually punks) explained to their friend that he needs a properly made earring piercing. They placed him on a wooden table with his ear on the table, used a nail and a hammer and pierced the ear ;-P...03:26
DocScrutinizer05then they said "duh, don't meove, while we go searching for a pliers to pull the nail out of the table"03:27
DocScrutinizer05punk pranks03:28
DocScrutinizer05though I heard carpenters love that very prank as well03:29
DocScrutinizer05golden comment of a bystander: "GUY, _you_ got a huuuuge earring!"03:32
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int_uaIs wiki missing one CSS file?03:48
int_uahttps://wiki.maemo.org/skins/monobookmaemo2009/FF2Fixes.css03:49
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DocScrutinizer05int_ua: why do you think this is needed/used by wiki?04:13
benediktwhat apt repositories should one use? the ones that cojme.by default have expired keys04:15
int_uaDocScrutinizer05, wiki was broken several minutes ago, now it's fine again04:15
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qwerty123where is email stored in vb604:22
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DocScrutinizer05benedikt: only the nokia repos. Those don't have any updates you would want to install anyway. and the expired key is only causing a Warning afaik, you can simply ignore it. If it actually causes problems, I heard you can simply change the date on your N900 to something in 201104:29
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DocScrutinizer05int_ua: that's caused by high load on www VM that also hosts static.maemo.org which serves the css and other static stuff for wiki, bugs, whatnot else04:30
DocScrutinizer05and using https probably doesn't help on that ;-)04:31
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raccoon_DocScrutinizer05: oh i know; that was just an example of my dried up humor. ;-P10:46
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benediktshouldn't syncevolution be in extras? I can't find it, but i have the repo "http://repository.maemo.org/extras/"..14:35
DrCodehi all14:37
DrCodeIs there software that can sava battery life?14:37
DrCodeor show what take more power battery?14:37
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benedikti gather from this page http://maemo.org/packages/view/syncevolution-frontend/ that syncevolution is only in -extras and -devel, so never mind14:53
benediktbut why do the repos use expired certs?14:54
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Palibenedikt: which repo?14:58
Palidownloads.maemo.nokia.com?14:58
Palibecause nokia's gpg key expired and nokia does not want to fix it14:58
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benediktPali: yep. are there maemo/hildon hosted repos?15:09
Paliservers *.nokia.com are nokias's15:09
benediktobviously :)15:10
Paliservers *.maemo.org are maemo15:10
Paliwe can fix maemo repos but not nokia's15:10
benediktmy sources.list has repository.maemo.org for extras and downloads.maemo.nokia.com for the rest. are there *.maemo.org servers for them that i can replace the nokia servers with?15:12
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Palinokia.com has OVI and system packages15:13
Paliother extras are on maemo15:14
benediktare the nokia repos being updated?15:14
freemangordonPali: hi15:14
freemangordonPali: lets continue ke-recv here, it is too much of an effor to post about it on TMO :)15:15
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Palibenedikt: no, they refused15:17
Palifreemangordon: hi15:17
benediktPali: are there any plans on mirroring it and eventually moving to15:18
benedikt*.maemo.org?15:18
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Palibenedikt: do not know15:18
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DocScrutinizer05benedikt: how would we do that? All users had to install a package manually to get the new repo locations. that's not viable16:05
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benediktDocScrutinizer05: who controls the maemo images these days?16:06
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DocScrutinizer05images?16:10
DocScrutinizer05what exactly do you refer to?16:10
ApicProbably Flash-ROM-Images16:11
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benediktDocScrutinizer05: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ # these. but it is .nokia.com so i'm guessing nokia16:11
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DocScrutinizer05hah, that's actually us16:11
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DocScrutinizer05to control them16:12
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benediktthat way you could at least get new devices to automatically pull from repos you control yourselves.. but thats not a lot..16:12
DocScrutinizer05yes, feasible16:12
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benediktmight even be possible to push a packages to -extras that updates the sources.list..16:13
DocScrutinizer05we pondered that. It seems there's not a singe package in extras that everybody has installed16:13
DocScrutinizer05single*16:13
benediktwell. thats a shame.16:14
DocScrutinizer05btw, benedikt: you should NOT use sources.list for anything16:16
benediktDocScrutinizer05: i know. ive used debian for more than a decade, it's just simpler to refer to it as sources.list than the full pathname16:16
DocScrutinizer05[2013-08-21 23:03:26] <DocScrutinizer05> anyway if you *really want to mess with HAM and apt catalogs/repos on file level, this is what you're looking for: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list   and   http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues16:17
DocScrutinizer05[2013-08-21 23:04:11] <DocScrutinizer05> everything else apt reöated gets overwritten by HAM eventually16:17
benediktHAM?16:18
benediktseems like a good reason to uninstall the application manager then16:18
DocScrutinizer05[2013-08-21 23:05:12] <DocScrutinizer05> or is ignored by HAM but not by fapman and apt-get, which makes for rather confusing behaviour that nobody really appreciates16:18
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nah, sources.list proper gets used by HAM and not modified16:19
benediktkerio: cool, noted.16:19
kerioHAM's .list file obviously gets overwritten at least on every catalog modification16:19
DocScrutinizer05but also not displayed in "catalogs" I guess16:19
kerioif not every time HAM starts16:19
keriothey're also displayed in catalogs16:19
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DocScrutinizer05still it's nonsensical to edit it, since otherwise why is mine 0 bytes?16:20
DocScrutinizer05it's kinda like editing resolv.conf16:21
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DocScrutinizer05resolv.conf has 127.0.0.1 and nuttin else, per definition. and sources.list is empty, per definition16:22
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DocScrutinizer05benedikt: I don't think uninstalling HAM is a great idea16:25
DocScrutinizer05it won't instantly bring the system down, but for sure you're begging for trouble when you do16:26
DocScrutinizer05benedikt: and since we're already close to that topic: please note that apt-get upgrade and particularly apt-get dist-upgrade and autoremove, and prolly even -f sometimes, are extremely dangerous and deprecated, since they all tend to fubar your maemo system16:29
DocScrutinizer05maemo is not a plain debian when it comes to apt, repos, packaging16:30
DocScrutinizer05that's why you want to keep HAM16:30
DocScrutinizer05for quite a few things Nokia invented very own concepts orthogonal to standard linux resp debian16:32
DocScrutinizer05other stuff they implemented their own personal flavour of some functions that later on got also into upstream linux but implemented differently. See sudoers and update-sudoers and include directive16:34
DocScrutinizer05duh, that would make for a very nice CSSU project: get a newer sudo that knows about "include <dir>"16:36
DocScrutinizer05nuke update-sudoers16:36
DocScrutinizer05ooh, benedikt: without HAM no proper installing or updating of any CSSU16:38
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DocScrutinizer05nothing wrong with using apt-get install for getting new packages, but *updates* you should leave to HAM and possibly auto-update16:40
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benediktCSSU?16:40
DocScrutinizer05~cssu16:40
infoboti guess cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU16:40
DocScrutinizer05I strongly suggest *stable16:40
benediktdidnt know that. might be why i broke maemo last time16:40
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DocScrutinizer05yes, ignoring those idiosyncrasies of maemo is a too easy way to mess stuff up16:41
DocScrutinizer05actually you shouldn't even do updates with HAM as long as extras-devel (or -testing) is enabled16:42
jon_yuse apt?16:43
DocScrutinizer05not all packages that would get updated to latest version in extras-devel are safe. every now and then we see a really rogue one in there16:43
benediktwait what16:44
benediktjust befor you said i should only update with HAM,16:44
benedikt?16:44
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: nah, cherrypick package by package. Then it doesn't matter if you use apt-get install or HAM16:44
jon_yok16:44
benediktif i have extras-devel and/or -testing, should i update with apt-get or HAM? what if i have either of those?16:45
DocScrutinizer05but a apt-get upgrade or "install/update all" in HAM is most likely fatal when extras-devel is enabled, sooner or later16:45
DocScrutinizer05having both extras-devel and extras-testing doesn't really make any sense16:46
DocScrutinizer05since all packages in testing went through devel16:46
DocScrutinizer05a package goes extras-devel -> extras-testing -> extras16:47
DocScrutinizer05extras is considered "safe"16:48
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DocScrutinizer05testing basically only for *real* testers who want to help evaluating the packages and make them go to extras or reject them due to flaws they have16:49
DocScrutinizer05devel is bleeding edge that's not tested at all, rogue or dangerous or fubar stuff *will* be there16:49
DocScrutinizer05amog pretty stable other packages that simply never got promoted to extras16:50
DocScrutinizer05among*16:50
benediktright, but how does one update safely?16:51
benediktwasnt sure if packages went first to -devel or -testing16:51
DocScrutinizer05you simply do update via HAM with extras-testing and exzras-devel repo disbaled16:51
DocScrutinizer05for -testing and -devel you do cherrypicking for the one or two ;) packages you got from there, after you checked the changelog and supplementary info about the new version of that package16:52
DocScrutinizer05it is cumbersome, but then extras-devel never been meant for general usage16:53
DocScrutinizer05recently somebody uploaded some X11 related package to extras-devel that broke the whole system16:54
DocScrutinizer05aiui every user would have installed it as soon as you do upgrade on extras-devel via apt or HAM16:55
DocScrutinizer05libc6 eventually appeared on extras-devel16:56
DocScrutinizer05incompatible broken qt versions appeared on extras-devel16:56
jaskaheh16:56
DocScrutinizer05using extras-devel like a normal repo is a warranty for doom, if not today then maybe next month16:57
DocScrutinizer05you enable extras-devel, install (or update) your package(s) you're interested in, and immediately disable the catalog again16:58
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benediktDocScrutinizer05: yeah, that sounds like the safe way to do it17:00
DocScrutinizer05:-)17:00
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DocScrutinizer05the added benefit: HAM is much less slow as long as extras-devel (and -testing) are disabled17:05
benedikti havent enabled them yet and i think HAM is terribly slow17:05
benediktis there a nice way to use gpg with the email client?17:06
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benedikthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zx8qdVs7Ug # how do i get the n900 to show the kernel messages when booting and why have I never seen this REALLY EXCITING VIDEO when booting mine?17:08
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DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#replace_shaking-hands_video17:12
DocScrutinizer05for the boot messages you need a kernel supporting that17:12
korhojoapower-kernel should be able?17:13
DocScrutinizer05I thik so17:13
benedikti want to use LUKS soon, i suppose that requires another kernel anyways17:13
korhojoaor can r&d mode with vanilla kernel do that?17:13
DocScrutinizer05think*17:13
DocScrutinizer05korhojoa: no17:13
korhojoaokay17:14
benediktunfortunately, the url the youtube video gives is dead17:14
DocScrutinizer05vanilla kernel has no fb17:14
korhojoaah, okay17:14
DocScrutinizer05also iirc you need a patched kernel cmdline to tell kernel to actually do logging to fb console17:16
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DocScrutinizer05KP comes with cmdline patched afaik17:16
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# cat /proc/cmdline17:18
DocScrutinizer05init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=617:18
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DocScrutinizer05^^^ this is vtock kernel cmdline and it doesn't have the needed directive to log to console17:18
keriomy n900 doesn't find any wifi network :s17:19
kerioi think it's because there are so many of those17:19
keriothere's awful congestion17:19
DocScrutinizer05hard to believe that not a single beacon comes thru17:19
kerioi find no wifi network17:20
DocScrutinizer05iwlist scan17:20
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kerioer, wot17:21
kerioNetwork is down17:21
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DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/6404730017:22
kerioNo scan results17:22
kerioafter an ifconfig wlan0 up17:22
DocScrutinizer05ifup ?17:23
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kerionot ifup17:24
kerioifup is the debiany thing that also runs scripts that don't actually exist in maemo17:25
keriothis is silly17:25
kerioit finds no networks whatsoever17:25
DocScrutinizer05uhuh17:25
DocScrutinizer05and ifconfig is the thing that directly talks to hardware then, without letting system know about state change in wlan?17:26
kerioyeah17:26
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:47 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: WLAN Connection Daemon 3.0.20.1+0cssu2 started.17:28
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:47 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: WLAN flight mode changed to "normal"17:28
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DocScrutinizer05and I'm pondering to revert to "good old" stock wlancond17:29
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DocScrutinizer05too many strange thing happening to my WLAN since quite some time17:30
DocScrutinizer05that's not a strange thing, but should give kerio sth to think about:17:31
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:49 IroN900 kernel: [43183.658721] wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 35 rx blocks at 0x3a78017:31
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:49 IroN900 kernel: [43183.674316] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7)17:31
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:49 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: Scan issued17:31
keriowait, wl1251?17:31
keriooh, wl12xx17:31
DocScrutinizer05this however is kinda strange, though I guess it always been like this:17:33
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: Scan results ready -- scan active17:33
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 wlancond[2462]: Scan results (6 APs) to :1.8117:33
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 icd2 0.87+fremantle10+0m5[2553]: connecting iap 0x420f8 in state ICD_IAP_STATE_SCRIPT_PRE_UP: interface is '(null)'17:33
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:50 IroN900 kernel: [43185.088592] wl1251: down17:33
DocScrutinizer05Aug 12 07:34:51 IroN900 icd2 0.87+fremantle10+0m5[2553]: connecting iap 0x420f8 in state ICD_IAP_STATE_LINK_UP: interface is 'wlan0'17:34
benedikt~cssu17:35
infobotcssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU17:35
benediktfunny bot17:35
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DocScrutinizer05~+chaninfo17:38
infobot126/126 channels, 5049 users, 3807 unique: #debian/1336, #kde/431, #macosx/337, #gsoc/306, #maemo/233, #asterisk/194, #wowuidev/139, #oe/136, #cubieboard/125, #harmattan/114, #meego/107, #wowace/106, #arm-netbook/89, #utah/82, #webos-internals/75, #openmoko/69, #wowhead/67, #openmoko-cdevel/67, #edev/62, #bzflag/56, #asterisk-dev/50, #maemo-ssu/45, #htc-linux/41, #sc2mapster/40, #curseforge/40, #gllug/36, #n9/35, #uphpu/35, #slug/31, #elinux/29, ...17:38
keriomeh, still doesn't work17:38
keriobut it never did properly17:38
kerioso i don't think it's cssu17:38
DocScrutinizer05sounds like you messed up your system's connectivity subsystem. E.G by installing auto-disconnect, or whatever17:39
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benediktisn't this a reasonable assumption: if i flashed my device just yesterday, then i'm running PR1.3.17:39
DocScrutinizer05yes17:40
DocScrutinizer05unless you downloaded an obsolete image file17:40
DocScrutinizer05~pr13117:40
infobothmm... combined is the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/fiasco+co/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin  or  http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2011/9/--FID--A0A22MVWFVFAM/--LID--FiRe1317015685654/RX-51_2009SE_21.2011.38-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin17:40
benedikti downloaded the newest i could find, but it was still from 201117:40
DocScrutinizer05~pr1317:40
DocScrutinizer05mmmpff17:41
benedikti downloaded this one RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin (sha1: 54c9e5d6491ea73f9f4131c9f19cc01f9934fcdb)17:41
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues pr_combined17:41
infobotFactoid search of 'pr_combined' by value returned no results.17:41
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues *pr_combined17:41
infobotFactoid search of '*pr_combined' by value returned no results.17:41
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues PR_COMBINED17:41
infobotFactoid search of 'PR_COMBINED' by value returned no results.17:41
DocScrutinizer05damn17:42
DocScrutinizer0536-2 is PR1.317:42
DocScrutinizer05MR0 is 2global"17:42
DocScrutinizer05s/2/"/17:42
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: MR0 is "global"17:42
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benediktDocScrutinizer05: so i have PR1.317:43
DocScrutinizer05yup17:43
benediktnice17:43
DocScrutinizer05also see ~cssu17:44
benedikti did, thats why i was wondering if i had 1.317:44
DocScrutinizer05it elaborates on how to make sure17:44
benediktjust noticed. :|17:45
DocScrutinizer05please foolow instructions faithfully!17:50
DocScrutinizer05follow even17:50
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, had to fix a few flaws in that instruction17:55
benediktdid you just update the wiki?17:56
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: It is possible to add pr1.3.1 to http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ ?17:59
DocScrutinizer05I think it should be easy to accomplish18:00
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DocScrutinizer05benedikt: yup18:00
kerioADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready18:00
* benedikt reloads18:00
PaliDocScrutinizer05: and mirroring downloads.maemo.nokia.com on *maemo.org?18:00
keriowhat is this D:18:00
benediktis there a newer version of python somewhere for maemo?18:01
Palibenedikt: look at maemo extras18:01
Palionly there can be18:01
DocScrutinizer05~pkg18:01
infobotsomebody said pkg was http://maemo.org/packages/18:01
Palikerio: what?18:01
DocScrutinizer05Pali: mirroring? why?18:02
keriowhenever i try to look for the available wifi networks18:02
PaliDocScrutinizer05: backup + resign repository18:02
Paliwith new or some maemo.org key18:02
DocScrutinizer05err wait, what's on downloads.m.n.c?18:02
PaliSSU18:02
Paliand others18:02
DocScrutinizer05aaah, sure we can mirror it, but it's kinda useless unless we find a way to point all devices to the mirror18:03
DocScrutinizer05no?18:03
benediktDocScrutinizer05: seems like there is only the 2.5 branch18:04
Palikerio: does it have "IPv6:" prefix? that dmesg message?18:04
keriono18:04
DocScrutinizer05kerio: reflash stock, test, report18:04
PaliDocScrutinizer05: it can be usefull for cssu users or users who read TMO, IRC, RSS, mailinglist...18:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: fair enough18:04
keriobut it's going to be hell :c18:05
Palikerio: same problem I have on desktop18:05
DocScrutinizer05Pali: :nod:18:05
Pali[   44.811991] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not read18:05
Palibut there is IPv6 prefix18:05
DocScrutinizer05Pali: prolly we need to go that stony path18:05
keriothis has been an intermittent problem for me, fwiw18:05
DocScrutinizer05Pali: since Nokia never will fix the friggin gpgkey18:05
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Palikerio: look: http://siso.sourceforge.net/wireless-linux.html18:07
PaliADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready, merely means what it says: the link is not up yet. The link will be up once wpa_supplicant negotiated the key.18:07
keriothere's no key!18:08
keriothere's no wifi network!18:08
keriofor crying out loud18:08
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keriowhat's happening18:08
Palimaemo not using wpa_supplicant but proprietary nokia eapd SW18:08
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DocScrutinizer05toldya18:14
DocScrutinizer05didn't I?18:14
DocScrutinizer05[2013-08-22 16:26:28] <DocScrutinizer05> and ifconfig is the thing that directly talks to hardware then, without letting system know about state change in wlan?18:15
DocScrutinizer05Pali: why did KP need epoch?18:17
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: I try to wrap my head around whether we need to support epoch in maemo.org (autobuilder)18:18
PaliDocScrutinizer05: I do not remember correctly, but there was problem when we integrated upstream linus diff from 2.6.28 to 2.6.28.1018:19
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DocScrutinizer05how's that related to version string?18:19
Pali10 was added to version string18:19
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DocScrutinizer05mhm18:19
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Paliand there was problem that dpkg told that new version os older18:20
DocScrutinizer05but version string of KP is sth like 52, no?18:20
Paliso I added epoch to deb package like in other similar problems in debian18:20
DocScrutinizer05alas maemo ignores epoch, at best18:20
Paliit has suffix 5218:21
DocScrutinizer05maemo.org infra, that is18:21
kerioDocScrutinizer05: 1:2.6.28-10power5218:21
keriothere's already an epoch there18:22
DocScrutinizer05HAH18:22
DocScrutinizer05yes I know there's an epoch now, I asked WHY18:22
DocScrutinizer05of course when you break versioning sheme like 2.6.28power49 -> 2.6.28-10power52, that can not work18:23
benediktis there a way to run the UI as some other user than "user"?18:24
DocScrutinizer05alas epoch isn't a "fix" in this case either, at least on maemo.org autobuilder18:24
DocScrutinizer05benedikt: hardly18:24
benediktDocScrutinizer05: meh18:24
DocScrutinizer05"user" user hardcoded in some locations18:24
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benediktDocScrutinizer05: was it only extras-devel that you should disable between uses or should i do that with -testing as well?18:25
DocScrutinizer05you probably don't want testing at all18:25
benediktit had a bunch of packages i wanted..18:26
DocScrutinizer05it's redundant for regular users, when they use -devel anyway18:26
benedikti was trying to stay away from -devel18:26
DocScrutinizer05well, then you probably can use testing as a halfway-to-"safe" replacement for -devel18:27
PaliDocScrutinizer05: yes this was reason: I wanted to have kernel version same as package version18:27
DocScrutinizer05again, every package goes extras-devel -> extras-testing -> extras18:27
Paliand I really did not know that maemo infra does not support what is supported on debian18:27
DocScrutinizer05Pali: no blaming18:28
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: anyway a better versioning for KP probably is 52power2.6.28-1018:28
DocScrutinizer05particularly since the real kernel version not really applies to KP with all its backports of features from newer kernels18:30
kerio1:2.6.28... is still higher than 52po...18:30
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Palibtw, how was epoch in repos fixed?18:31
DocScrutinizer05no, it isn't, on maemo.org. it however is on apt dpkg etc18:31
Palipackages were manually imported?18:31
PaliI mean in package interface18:31
DocScrutinizer05epoch gets ignored completely18:31
DocScrutinizer05on maemo.org18:32
DocScrutinizer05aiui18:32
Paliok, so if I put new version (with epoch) will it be imported to package interface?18:32
DocScrutinizer05you could use 1:52power2.6.28-1018:32
DocScrutinizer05afaik maemo.org simply does a s/[0-0]:// on _some_ locations18:33
Paliok18:33
DocScrutinizer05afaik maemo.org simply does a s/[0-9]:// on _some_ locations18:33
DocScrutinizer05so make sure your versioning isn't violating epoch rules (for apt's sake) while your version string *without epoch* should still be strictly monotonically growing18:35
DocScrutinizer05and if you can avoid by any means, do not use epoch at all18:35
DocScrutinizer05for now, according to freemangordon, our policy is: NO changes in epoch!18:36
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DocScrutinizer05so if you're using 1:, keep it. If you don't use epoch, don't change that either18:37
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DocScrutinizer05maemo.org doesn't support epoch really. It at best treats epoch like a normal part of version string, worst case simply ignores epoch all together like it wasn't existing. (or swap best and worst here)18:38
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DocScrutinizer05for handling mess with epoch changes, we simply nuke all packages from a project, then developer may upload whatever she likes18:39
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DocScrutinizer05I think we got ~5 projects that use epoch, in extras*18:40
keriojust... make it work?18:40
DocScrutinizer05kerio: it can't be done since db has no epoch18:40
keriohuh?18:40
DocScrutinizer05epoch is removed from version string in db18:41
keriowell that's fucking dumb18:41
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DocScrutinizer05that is how it been since birth of maemo18:41
keriowho threw away information?18:41
keriofor fuck's sake18:41
DocScrutinizer05so no way we can fix that stuff18:42
* benedikt gets the popcorn18:42
kerioyes we can, we know where the package versions are18:42
kerioin the .debs18:42
kerioand in Packages18:42
DocScrutinizer05meh, nobody will edit the midgard db18:42
DocScrutinizer05since that will likely make our sun go supernova18:43
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DocScrutinizer05maemo doesn't support epoch, take it18:43
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DocScrutinizer05we honestly got much more severe issues we need to fix, that are less effort and less demanding to fix, and yet we don't have the manpower to do those18:45
DocScrutinizer05epoch, blablablapfffffff18:45
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DocScrutinizer05who T F needs epoch?18:46
keriome! me!18:50
kerioi need epoch for reasons18:50
keriovital ones18:50
kerioanyway, ignoring epoch can work i suppose18:51
DocScrutinizer05or let me put it this way: you (and everybody interested) are free to port maemo.org incl all the funny custom made scripts to some CMS that's still supported, like e.g. midgard2, and for sure during such migration effort we could fix epoch issue en passant18:51
keriobut write it somewhere, or devs might expect to be able to do that18:51
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DocScrutinizer05yep, agreed18:52
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DocScrutinizer05we removed the hack xfade implemented to allow pali to upload and promote his KP with epoch. Now it's back to the state where maemo.org completely ignores epoch (aiui, ask fmg) and thus somebody uploading a package with epoch will notice soon enough that it doesn't promote and thus will come here to ask what's wrong18:53
DocScrutinizer05but nonetheless I agree we should publish an according note that epoch should not get used to increment version18:55
DocScrutinizer05since maemo doesn't watch for changes in epoch18:55
DocScrutinizer05and when you can't change epoch (also not from non-using to using it), then it's useless anyway18:57
DocScrutinizer05get your versioning sorted then you don't need to resort to epoch ;-)18:57
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