IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-08-02

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sixwheeledbeastfreemangordon: DocScrutinizer05: sysop-team: Top marks on fixing autobuilder :) thank you.00:55
sixwheeledbeastI have successfully promoted two packages to testing.00:55
sixwheeledbeastAlso ML was a good idea.00:56
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ecc2ghmm... the internal resistance of my battery has increased enough to trigger low battery on high load... then after some rest, the battery gauge goes back to where it was before the spike...01:32
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Psiany n900 news i should know about, ive not looked in here in years01:52
Psistill using my n900 though01:52
Psiim interested in speed related tweeks01:53
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freemangordonPsi: cssu-thumb02:08
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Psifreemangordon: you running it?02:16
freemangordonPsi: but ofc, I am the maintainer :D02:16
infobot[cssu-thumb] <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or
Psiah, hehe02:16
Psii think i really need to reinstall everything, its been running for years and all sorts of crap has been installed02:18
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DocScrutinizer05dont cry when I'm nor answering02:42
DocScrutinizer05I'll take an outtime02:42
DocScrutinizer05maybe a week, or a month, or...02:43
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hmm?02:44
freemangordonwe have a query to execute on mo :)02:44
freemangordonno day off before that :P02:44
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psycho_oreosWell.. that was rather abrupt.03:03
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SAiFDocScrutinizer51: you there?04:22
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SAiFDocScrutinizer05: you there?04:36
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SAiFanyone.. here?04:53
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* nox- hopes doc isnt burned out05:05
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ebzzryfreemangordon: cssu-testing consistently does not work with me. :-(05:24
ebzzrythat means no camera-ui2 :-(05:24
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SAiFslider magnet pictures.. pls07:42
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psycho_oreosSAiF, from:
psycho_oreosWhen I searched for "magnet; N900" there were some pointers that you might be able to use a replacement magnet from underneath where the kickstand is.08:00
SAiFyes, I reflashed and still problem persists. I tried sliding an external magnet from Q to P and it worked?08:07
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SAiFI guess there is another magnet on the other half also..08:08
SAiFjust now I saw that you already posted that link.. lol08:09
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SAiFI guess one of them is missing...08:11
psycho_oreosIf it worked, then your dmesg output should show slide (GPIO 71) is now {open, closed}08:11
psycho_oreosThe latter link (which is the same as you've just pasted), shows that there's a magnet and a sensor. Not exactly two magnets from those area, there is however another magnet underneath where the kickstand is.08:12
SAiFi need root right?08:12
psycho_oreos"dmesg" command doesn't need root iirc.08:13
psycho_oreosAlso, thinking about the issue, if you put a magnet (doesn't necessarily require to be nokia accessory) near where the sensor is and if it works and you see "dmesg" showing slide is now open or closed. Its a good sign that the sensor is not working albeit the magnet maybe missing.08:14
psycho_oreoss/not working//08:15
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: Also, thinking about the issue, if you put a magnet (doesn't necessarily require to be nokia accessory) near where the sensor is and if it works and you see "dmesg" showing slide is now open or closed. Its a good sign that the sensor is  albeit the magnet...08:15
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: Also, thinking about the issue, if you put a magnet (doesn't necessarily require to be nokia accessory) near where the sensor is and if it works and you see "dmesg" showing slide is now open or closed. Its a good sign that the sensor is  working albeit th...08:15
psycho_oreosffs PEBKAC.08:15
infobotpsycho_oreos: aw, gee08:16
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psycho_oreosI.e. the issue is not the sensor not functioning, the sensor is doing its job. If anything its the magnet that is either missing or something else to do with the magnet itself.08:17
SAiFwhich one is the magnet, the one in front panel or the one inside?08:17
psycho_oreosThere was a youtube video that I saw (whilst searching before) of a guy using a regular magnet and held it near the screen. The screen lit up whenever the guy moved the magnet down and screen shut off when he did the opposite (i.e. moved up).08:18
psycho_oreosAccording to the photos that I mentioned before, the one inside (might be underneath the screen near its "cover" area).08:19
psycho_oreosIts not in the front panel (where the keyboard is). If you look at the photos closely you will see its beneath where the screen is, there is a guard surrounding the screen and there's a little silver piece of metal which the author of that photo indicated as the magnet).08:20
psycho_oreosGuard or frame, whatever you may wish to call it. I'm guessing the technician didn't realise there was a magnet when you had to get your digitizer serviced/replaced.08:21
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SAiFin office..08:22
psycho_oreosWhat do you mean?08:23
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psycho_oreosSome really interesting stuff on tmo that probably isn't well documented on wmo. I recall reading about people mirroring wmo, who knows if they realised there's plenty more useful information on wmo. I was just reading stuff about broken USB ports on N900 and there's another workaround instead of having to try and resolder the original microUSB back in its place. Inevitably the methods mentioned aren't probably within average user's reach.09:45
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)09:49
DrCodehi all09:51
DrCodeI can use mkfs.vfat to sdcard and then use it in maemo?09:51
DrCodewhat format type dose maemo uses in sdcard?09:51
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psycho_oreosHmm looks like I got beat lol *sigh*.10:00
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psycho_oreos1) cat /proc/filesystems 2) Format the microSD using File Manager and find out via mount what it uses. Alternatively, asking the right questions on forum search will yield you the result you were after, a bit of common sense would be desirable.10:25
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Iridosreading news like e.g.   ... is there a way to query from the N900 what encryption the sim card uses?12:26
Iridosalso... what? sim cards have java programs running on them?12:26
jon_ymini jvm inside12:31
jon_yalso, bluray menu is in java, I think12:32
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Iridosso is there anything to play around with the simcard, query info of it, maybe run stuff on it.... whatever?12:38
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jon_yI think those are proprietary Nokia stuff12:47
jon_yno direct access to sim from usermode12:47
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Lava_Croftn900 is a linux computer, but its a linux computer born in the decrepit world of mobile communications12:59
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SAiFphsyco_oreos: sorry to leave in a hurry, I was in office, anyway. I talked to the technician and he told me that he might have missed the magnet, Any way he will take a look at it on monday.13:37
SAiFand is there any command where I can check whether the halfpress of camera key is working or not?13:38
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ShadowJK'dmesg' will have cam_focus in it13:47
ShadowJK(press half, type dmesg enter)13:47
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Iridossomething unrelated I wonder about... when connecting to eduroam, does the phone check the validity of the server against the present certificates ... and is there a simple way for me to check if it happens (only thing I can think of is removing all certificates, see if it still connects... even then... could have some certificate I don't see)14:25
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Iridosguess nobody has an idea16:40
kerioLava_Croft: the n900 is a linux computer that has a proprietary hw phone module16:42
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Lava_Croftamong a host of other proprietary software16:49
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Iridoshave a good weekend17:04
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amin007110How german sounds compared to other languages! lol,
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LjLwhat are the pressure-sensitive drawing apps (and possibly other high-quality painting-related apps) for OS2008 and Maemo 5? i know of MyPaint (which only appears to have 0.5.1 available for OS2008, which doesn't work very well) and Xournal17:48
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keriowe have pressure sensors? :O17:53
LjLkerio, not as in barometric pressure, as in stylus pressure ;)17:55
kerioi know17:55
kerioi didn't know the n900 digitizer could do that17:55
LjLyeah it can, it's not a dramatic effect (i.e. not a huge range of pressures) but it's there17:56
LjLi have a friend who's good at drawing with graphics tablets, and i thought i could recommend he get a cheap N810, which to me - given appropriate software - seems quite suited to drawing17:56
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LjLalso - any clue why my FM transmitter refuses to work? i'm running CSSU testing, standard kernel (or whatever kernel comes with CSSU... i need to ask about the kernel later), have tried this fmtx-faker and fm-boost, but i just hear nothing at all on my radio even if i keep the phone touching the radio's antenna18:08
LjLcan it be something about location?18:08
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LjLi also see there is a new fmtx-middleware in CSSU-Devel18:10
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HurriansledgeSim, all:
Hurrianwhoops, wrong channel18:14
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psycho_oreosIridos, The only way I can imagine a hacker can do that (SIM card hack) is most likely through GSM level. Its unlikely the hacker will send the information through other ways, even more if the radio for that function is disabled/patched its highly unlikely without the hacker breaking the device first. N900 has a couple of entry points: GSM, WLAN, Bluetooth, FM Transmitter, and IR. Both IR and Bluetooth are virtually impossible without user's explic18:28
psycho_oreosit consent. FM transmitter? unlikely unless they found a bug within fmtxd for instance. WLAN? that's if you don't have firewall properly defined (besides they need to get into your device in the first place, via maybe vulnerable daemons). This only leaves GSM which I'm guessing most telcos would be looking at ways of patching it.18:28
psycho_oreosThere was a MITM hack with 3G->2G and eavesdropping on vulnerable "clients" that was available at I think BlackHat conference. The rumoured equipment at the time was estimated around $1000, though these days it would be far cheaper I suppose to make one. In the very least scenario, its unlikely script kiddies will use it to abuse people. Unless you pissed some real blackhat's off you probably would be in safer shoes than someone who likes to dice t18:31
psycho_oreosheir reputation around.18:31
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psycho_oreosLjL, that fmtx-middleware was an imported package from what jacekowski did with fmtxd (which was to enable more functionality compared to the standard fmtxd).18:36
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psycho_oreosN900 is probably one of the closest hardware you can get to tinker with its bones. There's no other device/phone that would come close apart from maybe openmoko.18:39
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kerioLjL: the range is pretty damn awful for the fmtx18:45
keriotry jacekowski's modified fmtxd18:45
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psycho_oreosYou could even broadcast in other radio frequencies in which the original fmtxd doesn't even offer. Albeit using modified fmtxd doesn't really give too much benefit when it comes to range.18:46
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LjLpsycho_oreos: ok so if i wanted to try jacekowski's fmtxd, using the cssu-devel fmtx-middleware package would be a reasonably good way to achieve taht?18:54
LjLkerio: after fiddling anyway, it actually does work, but i *really* have to press the phone against the radio's antenna. otherwise, no dice. FM is *very* crowded here, that's probably the reason i guess18:55
kerioyeah ._.18:55
kerioLjL: that's jacekowski's fmtxd, indeed18:56
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psycho_oreosLjL, I'd advise against playing with stuff in CSSU-Devel if you're not really familiar when it comes to more difficult situations in troubleshooting. You can simply for now rename the original fmtxd to a backup and just grab the patched fmtxd and put it in the same location as where the now renamed (original) fmtxd resides.18:58
psycho_oreosThere are fair few other "channels" you can try/use, in a bid to avoid crowded spaces.18:58
psycho_oreosamin007110, ja und? ^^ *j/k*18:59
Lava_Croftif you have just over 3hours of spare time:19:00
Lava_Croft1800  Lava_Croft(+i)  3:FreeNode/#maemo(+Cfnt)19:00
Lava_Croft1800  Lava_Croft(+i)  3:FreeNode/#maemo(+Cfnt)19:00
Lava_CroftThat was a nice fail, i mean:
LjLpsycho_oreos: i wouldn't want to run afoul of too many regulations though... but i've no idea how much that could be a practical problem19:00
Lava_Croftskip the first 10 orso minutes to watch Carmack talk about shit for 3h19:00
kerioLjL: disregard regulations, acquire music19:01
LjLpsycho_oreos: anyway, re cssu-devel, unless we're talking hardware damage (or bricking), i can play with stuff on this N900... it's not my main phone, at least so far, i just bought it to tinker with19:01
psycho_oreosI've documented awhile ago on wmo where the FM antenna sits on N900. If you are up for some hardware hacking, you can play nasty and set yourself up a very nice FM transmitter (well.. at least in theory).19:01
LjLi have a backupmenu backup of an ok state anyway19:01
LjLi don't think i'll go that far - if i can just, say, use the fmtx with the headphones inserted, i get a feeling that already will give it a boost :P19:02
psycho_oreosLjL, in theory you wouldn't with the standard antenna, though wiring to aftermarket one may :D19:02
kerioLjL: yup19:02
kerioalso, use openmediaplayer19:02
kerioiirc it was also a factor19:03
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keriothe stock media player does something to the radio if you have things plugged in19:03
LjL"Override FMTX checks in UI"19:03
LjLthis looks interesting :P19:03
psycho_oreosLjL, you know... I recall sometime awhile ago it was said that extras-devel (yes its not completely related) gave warnings that it would cause the device to do undesirable effects. Apart from bricking it may affect other things. Besides, do you really want to "debian-ise" your setups?19:04
psycho_oreosIt prevents FM transmitter from running if you have headphones plugged in, that's with osso-mediaplayer. It doesn't do that (or at least how I've read) with open media player.19:05
kerioextras-devel and community-devel have absolutely no relation whatsoever19:05
LjLpsycho_oreos: what do you mean "debian-ise" my setup?19:05
keriousing certain .debs from community-devel is safe19:06
LjLi probably do like i have my setup remind of Debian =)19:06
kerioenabling the whole repo... not so much19:06
LjLi'm not keeping cssu-devel enabled as a whole, that's for sure19:06
LjLi just pick and choose19:06
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psycho_oreosNo, I was merely referring to how extras-devel constantly scared newbies off and how others have tried to stick various warning signs all over it. Thinking of CSSU-Devel sort of reminds me of exactly that :p19:06
Lava_Croftthe naming isnt exactly PR friendly19:07
LjLwell extras-devel seems to have most of the good stuff these days :P19:07
psycho_oreosLjL, i.e. do you must do things via apt-get, dpkg, etc? I mean you could pretty much do it by hand and make a note later on.19:07
psycho_oreosextras-devel was pretty back then :p19:08
psycho_oreoss/y/y creepy/19:08
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: extras-devel was pretty creepy back then :p19:08
LjLpsycho_oreos, being grown on Debian/Ubuntu, i tend to prefer using packages whenever possible - doing things by hand, one tends to forget what has been changed, and then it conflicts with packages19:08
psycho_oreosPeople didn't know what they were doing and thought apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade whilst having extras-devel on would give them bleeding-edge stuff. Turns out in most cases it was quite the opposite.19:09
LjLi'm mostly using FAM currently and never dist-upgrading, only upgrading single packages when i feel like19:10
psycho_oreosLjL, *shrugs* up to you. I don't know how well fmtxd-middleware is packaged, if say the p{re,ost}rm scripts don't properly "undo" once you decide to revert back.. well :) you can end up being SOL.19:10
psycho_oreosYeah I use FAM when I want to pull stuff from devel/testing repos. HAM for virtually everything else (heck CSSU is recommended to use with HAM not FAM).19:11
LjLhmm i could do that19:12
Lava_Crofti find that a smart rule is that if anything has any serious dependencies, just use ham19:12
LjLsince HAM and FAM use different repositories list19:12
Lava_Croftwhich means that most simple stuff is fine for fapman, but more complex stuff really isnt19:12
LjLLava_Croft: doesn't fam just use apt-get though?19:12
psycho_oreosand FAM is supposedly more notorious in its package management than HAM.19:12
infoboti guess fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default.19:13
Lava_Croftthere are known cases of fapman screwing up19:13
keriohaha what the fuck, who pushed debianutils to extras-devel?19:13
kerioit wants to uninstall *everything*19:14
psycho_oreosThere was a similar package like that, I can't quite remember the name of the package but it replaces stuff that conflicts with mostly busybox and replaces it with proper coreutils-gnu stuff.19:15
LjLok next question, kernel: i wouldn't mind a small amount of overclocking/undervolting, so, i guess i want the "power kernel" or whatever it's called. but i see there are two ways to get it: 1) flash it and replace the old kernel 2) get "multiboot" or "U-Boot" (i believe they're the same thing?) and chainload it.  also, i'm running CSSU Testing and i'd eventually like to try dual-booting with Nemo, which, i was reading, requires some specific version of U-Boot or19:16
LjLsomething... so, what's a safe/sane route?19:16
keriomultiboot is awful19:17
keriodon't use it19:17
jon_ymultiboot flashes on every boot19:17
keriouboot is awesome19:17
psycho_oreos1) is the safe/sane route but ideally 2) if you want dual/multibooting (no not multiboot as in multiboot package).19:17
infobotmultiboot is probably
jon_ymultiboot the package will flash every boot19:19
psycho_oreosHmm.. a fair few people including DocScrutinizer51 and Pali I believe were heavily against the use of multiboot :P19:19
jon_yuboot is saner19:19
jon_yuboot does chainload too, but doesn't flash on every boot19:19
infobotN900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files19:19
LjLoh lord, the confusion. so there is: a "bootmenu", which is the original thing; a "multiboot", which is probably not a good idea; a "U-Boot", which is the one to pick; and i also have a "backupmenu" installed, does that conflict with anything?19:19
infobotsomebody said backupmenu was
keriobootmenu is unrelated19:20
psycho_oreosbootmenu isn't the exact original thing. bootmenu was created for something else in mind. The default bootloader are mainly NOLO and XLoader.19:20
LjLpsycho_oreos: ah, so that seems sane, because even if i end up removing some important kernel packages, /dev/mtd3 will always contain a sane environment19:20
kerioit's something that runs after the kernel has been loaded19:20
kerioLjL: if you have cssu-thumb, the standard uboot won't help with booting19:21
LjLkerio: no i'm not using thumb19:21
keriowhy aren't you using cssu-thumb? :(19:21
psycho_oreosI believe the latest kernel power does not have premade stuff for multiboot. Pali made a note specifically about that, and he promotes uboot.19:22
kerioit's really good!19:22
LjLkerio: should i? it was listed on the wiki as something a bit arcane, felt a bit like cssu-devel19:22
psycho_oreosLatest kernel power as in kp52. It was in extras-devel but either way Pali has a copy of kp52 on his own repo/scratchbox.19:22
LjLkerio: besides, if i want to use thumb, then i have to use yet another kernel, right?19:23
psycho_oreosLjL, that's more or less the same diff as getting power kernel imo :)19:23
kerioPSA: cssu-devel is **NOT A THING**19:24
LjLyeah i guess so, just need to understand *which* kernel is the one i need :P but also, thumb has its own repo, and it's a different arch, is that just dandy and alright to use together with cssu-testing and packages from cssu-devel and whatnot?19:25
kerioLjL: cssu-thumb is an overlay on top of cssu-testing19:25
LjLkerio: is it basically a collection of packages recompiled for thumb2 replacing the cssu-testing ones?19:25
kerioor stock nokia ones19:26
LjLkerio: how do the version number works? i.e. do they replace the original stuff by means of having higher version numbers (but then that might conflict with cssu-devel or other repos?), or by specifying an arch, or what?19:26
psycho_oreosI believe they have tags on the filenames.19:26
psycho_oreosCSSU updates have cssu[1-5] thumbs otoh has thumb2 appended to the name iinm.19:27
LjLalso is there a kernel with *both* the thumb patches and the latest "kernel power" stuff?19:27
LjLpsycho_oreos: ah19:27
psycho_oreosThe last I checked/heard/read, thumb2 is still on kp51. Latest kp is kp52.19:28
LjLoh wow i see now cssu-devel *also* has its own kernel19:28
LjLpsycho_oreos: i guess that's not too tragic19:28
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psycho_oreosLjL, how do you mean?19:28
LjLpsycho_oreos: i mean, being on kp51 instead of kp52 probably doesn't make much difference - but i'm having a look at the changelogs now19:29
kerioLjL: the thumb errata workaround is in kernel-power since 50, iirc19:30
kerioor maybe 5119:30
keriokernel-cssu is a rebranding of kernel-power that doesn't have the uninstall script19:30
kerioversion numbers in cssu-thumb are kept barely above the cssu-testing ones19:31
kerioso that there's something to do for emergency updates, for instance19:31
LjLah so i can just use kernel-power with the thumb repo?19:31
kerioif you are, it won't even prompt to install kernel-cssu19:32
psycho_oreos51r1 I think it was for latest CSSU-Thumb.19:32
keriono, the first19:32
psycho_oreoskp51 thumb?19:33
* psycho_oreos is confused with thumb2's kernel naming conventions. Regular new kp versions just increments the number.19:33
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LjLkerio: [16:21:12] <kerio> LjL: if you have cssu-thumb, the standard uboot won't help with booting <---- is this because it will boot a kernel without the thumb2 patches, but the system binaries require it? isn't there an U-Boot that comes with a thumb-capable "emergency" kernel?19:35
kerioyou can make one if you want19:37
LjLwith "u-boot-for-power-kernel"? i just noticed this package19:37
kerioold and unsupported19:38
kerioanyway, it's not really a big deal19:38
kerioi don't even have a kernel attached to my uboot19:38
LjLbut then what happens if i mess something up? brick? - also, since apparently backupmenu doesn't work too nicely with U-Boot without modifications... then can't i even un-brick by restoring my backup?19:39
psycho_oreosI generally don't think you can easily un-brick via using backupmenu.19:39
kerio...backupmenu is also unrelated to uboot19:39
keriobackupmenu is launched by bootmenu19:39
keriowhich runs *after* the kernel has been loaded, uboot is long forgotten at that point19:40
LjLah, right19:40
LjLbear with me - there are many layers about this and they're confusing19:40
LjLin any case, if i want to be a bit safer from bricking, and i want to use thumb, then i should probably make an uboot + thumb-kernel thing, so is the logic here wrong?19:41
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keriojust don't fuck your mydocs up19:44
LjLwhat, how is mydocs related now D:19:44
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psycho_oreosTo me.. I personally think its safer to deal with one step at a time.. first install uboot and make sure that its pointing to your power kernel first. Then deal with kp with thumb2 later on after you have successfully managed to get uboot to boot with kp.19:47
LjLpsycho_oreos: sure, but, unless i got the whole thing wrong, uboot can 1) boot the kernel it's flashed with 2) boot another kernel that has a menu entry installed for it.  -  now, #1 will always be available even if i do something stupid like uninstalling the package that gives me #219:48
LjLis that right?19:48
psycho_oreosLjL, from memory the uboot package doesn't include any kernel, you should read relevant wiki/talk threads about it either way.19:49
psycho_oreosLjL, ... also that link tells you what it does to MyDocs.19:52
LjLyeah it's not always easy to know which page should be the one to read though :D i'm checking out and the very brief at the moment19:53
LjLah so i did have at least one right19:53
LjLso if mydocs becomes unmountable, u-boot won't boot anything anymore?19:54
psycho_oreosI believe so (I don't have uboot setup here).19:56
psycho_oreosHmm it seems the flasher package of uboot contains stock kernel. So in theory after installing uboot and getting it all setup, upon reboot it should boot up stock kernel by default.19:57
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LjLhold on a second... so, bootmenu starts up after the kernel has loaded... but still, it says it is "intended to use to boot alternative operating systems", so can't it just chainload another kernel itself (using kexec or something, i don't know how bootmenu works)20:04
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psycho_oreosThe phrases used was probably outdated, the package is really old in itself.20:15
psycho_oreosI guess the intention then was to boot into different X frontend environments. Probably things such as Mer, it probably wasn't intended to boot other kernels as it probably lacks that functionality (heavily depends on NOLO X-Loader in other words).20:16
LjLabout to do it - does this look right? it's going to install: u-boot-tools 2013.04-1, fiasco-image-update-ask 0.3, u-boot-flasher 2013.04-1, kernel-power 1:2.6.28-10power52 (most of these are from extras devel, should i use the extras testing versions instead?)20:17
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LjLu-boot and pk installed20:39
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LjLwould i be wise to use smartreflex? i see it's enabled in the "default" profile of kernel-power-settings, but disabled in the "ideal" profile21:12
kerioit "should" work21:13
keriofreemangordon can elaborate a bit more on it21:13
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