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| LjL | hmpf, lack of AP mode (and thus WPA as hotspot) is annoying. i'm so not comfortable with using WEP, yet i will need to provide computers with network access in the coming weeks | 00:33 |
|---|---|---|
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| ecc2g | I was using my eeePC as an access point once using BT/USB to the phone... since ath5k wifi supported AP mode... | 00:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Android dropping ad-hoc makes it especially annoying | 01:36 |
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| LjL | SpeedEvil: ugh, they don't allow connecting to ad-hoc nets now? how heinous :\ | 02:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Exactly. | 02:29 |
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| LjL | SpeedEvil: maybe it's just me being a conspiracy theorist, but aside from the obvious no-AP-so-you-can't-do-tethering thing in many phones, there is a fear from manufacturers that ad-hoc could allow mesh networks that could bypass the carrier | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | That's rubbish. | 02:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's basically impossible - mesh networks have fundamental flaws that mean wifi can never, ever do that. | 02:57 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: can you explain in simple terms why? | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | The probable reason was that there were lots of people complaining about bugs in ad-hoc mode that were in fact fundamental flaws. | 02:58 |
| LjL | ah | 02:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | In the protocl - namely there isn't a way of detecting when the network goes away and it drinks power as it has to keep the raido on all the time - versus a hundred of the time for AP mode. | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | In simple terms - because you can't detect signals that are at a moderate distance, but they add significantly to your noise background. | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Consider a football stadium. | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | If everyone is absolutely silent - you can speak to your friend 10m away without raising your voice. | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Similarly - if there is some coordination system so only one person talks at once - anyone can speak to anyone 10m away | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | This is - broadly - how cellphones work. | 03:00 |
| LjL | T/CMDA, yeah | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | The problem with wifi is there isn't a central coordinating authority. Once traffic raises over a very, very small level, suddenly you can only hear the person 5m away | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | But then when that happens in order to transmit a message a long distance - suddenly it needs to take twice as many hops. | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Oops - suddenly traffic just doubled effectively - meaning you can now only hear the person 2m away | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 03:02 |
| LjL | gotcha | 03:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Once you get over a _very_ small traffic utilisation - things catastrophically fail. | 03:02 |
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| LjL | SpeedEvil: couldn't one possibly devise a network in which, initially, everybody is ad-hoc in order to handshake, but that's done with as little traffic as possible, and then a node is "elected" to act as AP (it would need to, of course, support AP mode), and from that on, that little clique in the network uses the AP to arbitrate (until it goes away, then another handshake needs to be made)? | 03:04 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle - yes. | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | The problem is fairness. | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | It's always in your interests to cheat. | 03:06 |
| Hurrian | SpeedEvil: AP mode is implemented in pretty much all Android devices now, though | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | The other problem is that if you need 100 hops to get to your target - then the maximum bandwidth is obviously at the very most 1% | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | (as contention kicks in) | 03:07 |
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| Hurrian | does anyone still use Ad-hoc mode nowadays? | 03:13 |
| Hurrian | WiFi Direct or running a server over AP mode is the hot new thing. | 03:13 |
| Luke-Jr | I would if stupid Android didn't prevent me | 03:14 |
| ecc2g | people are only interested in adhoc because m-h-s and the n900 driver only supports adhoc? :\ | 03:15 |
| Hurrian | ecc2g, correction, the N900 firmware only supports adhoc | 03:16 |
| Hurrian | the driver in mac80211 already supports AP mode. we just need the wl1251 firmware for AP mode (which is under NDA) | 03:17 |
| ecc2g | still, that's the only reason why anyone is remotely interested in adhoc... | 03:17 |
| ecc2g | I don't get why android did away with adhoc, it should be in the 802.11 standard... | 03:18 |
| Hurrian | Google's "forcefully obsoleting" adhoc. | 03:18 |
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| HtheB | can someone build a package for me please? | 03:21 |
| ecc2g | anyone run a USB wifi stick that supports AP mode? :D | 03:22 |
| HtheB | seems like everybody is sleeping ecc2g | 03:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ecc2g: It uses lots of battery life, confuses people by showing networks as available when they're not, and has setup issues. | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | And no security at all | 03:24 |
| HtheB | SpeedEvil, can you make a package for me? | 03:25 |
| ecc2g | "it confuses people" <- only valid point, others are not an issue because that's what "adhoc" is for - to make an adhoc network... | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ecc2g: Oh - I agree. | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | HtheB: No. | 03:26 |
| * SpeedEvil is not really awake at the moment. | 03:27 | |
| SpeedEvil | And I haven't ever actually made a package. | 03:27 |
| HtheB | :D | 03:27 |
| ecc2g | damn, I had a package request too... | 03:27 |
| ecc2g | heh | 03:27 |
| HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90909 | 03:27 |
| HtheB | it's for this one | 03:28 |
| ecc2g | what I'd like to know is how the autobuilder works and how I can emulate that on the SDK | 03:28 |
| ecc2g | I still want to hack #@$% pidgin to save a bit of power... | 03:29 |
| Hurrian | ecc2g: the autobuilder simply runs the debian packaging scripts. | 03:30 |
| ecc2g | I don't know debian packaging... :\ | 03:30 |
| ecc2g | actually might be able to push this request upstream...it probably could help out more than just maemo... | 03:31 |
| ecc2g | just that if nobody's doing the maemo package anymore, I still wont get it updated :D | 03:32 |
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| DrCode | hi all | 05:11 |
| DrCode | how can I import opml to feedingit? | 05:11 |
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| HtheB | anyone still alive? | 05:50 |
| bef0rd | sup | 05:54 |
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| HtheB | good morning | 10:55 |
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| psycho_oreos | Hi | 11:04 |
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| HtheB | can anybody please package something? | 11:04 |
| HtheB | into a deb file | 11:04 |
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| psycho_oreos | 1) you can't do it yourself? 2) is the package already packed in debian format? 3) what sort of package is it? or the name of the package. | 11:15 |
| HtheB | 1) kinda hard without having a pc/laptop around. 2) no. 3) a couple of python files, for LiveView (smartwatch for Maemo) | 11:34 |
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| HtheB | link: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90909 | 11:34 |
| psycho_oreos | I believe you can install dpkg-dev or something which is a meta package that includes all the stuff necessary for building packages. Its more or less a pre-requisite for dpkg-repack anyway. | 11:37 |
| HtheB | so i can create a deb file on the go? | 11:43 |
| psycho_oreos | mmmh.. python stuff.. that may make dependencies a little hard to write out (apart from getting criticised if one makes a mistake). | 11:43 |
| psycho_oreos | Yes, in theory. Though you'll be making it on N900 more or less. | 11:44 |
| HtheB | did you check the link? | 11:44 |
| psycho_oreos | Yes I did, the author didn't fully mention the dependencies which can sort of mess things up depending on how you look at it. | 11:45 |
| HtheB | maybe the default python packages should be enough already | 11:46 |
| psycho_oreos | When I say mess things up I meant when making your own deb file. No dependencies, users probably whinge/moan about python not compatible, etc. Wrong python versions, users probably whinge/moan and then probably ask more. | 11:46 |
| HtheB | haha | 11:46 |
| psycho_oreos | The clueword you had right there was maybe. | 11:46 |
| HtheB | yeah | 11:46 |
| HtheB | it's more or less for myself | 11:46 |
| HtheB | but hey, if they moan, we can find out what dependencies we're missing hehe | 11:47 |
| psycho_oreos | In other words, that passes the work onto whoever wrote it, in other words apart from the developer h{im,er}self, they will be a maintaner which all bickering will be directed to. | 11:47 |
| HtheB | doesnt' have to be uploaded to the repos (yet) | 11:48 |
| HtheB | just a simple deb should be enough for now though | 11:48 |
| psycho_oreos | No, but you can for example turn around and start sharing the alpha/beta build of it and then say questions should be directed to <insert_name>. | 11:49 |
| HtheB | no problems to help people | 11:49 |
| HtheB | pretty sure there aren't a lot of people with a LiveView | 11:49 |
| psycho_oreos | Well if you say that then you should take on the work as maintainer then :). | 11:49 |
| HtheB | need a deb package only to begin with :D | 11:51 |
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| psycho_oreos | dpkg-dev, unpack a deb file and read up how to do it. That way you will learn what is required for making a nice (or at least a decent) usable deb file. | 11:52 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: need ideas what to thumbify next :) | 11:55 |
| HtheB | lets try to see it :) | 11:58 |
| psycho_oreos | HtheB, I could play really nasty and do a skill swap, you help me fix up flashing Samsung Galaxy S II using heimdall and stock jellybean firmware and I can then write up a quick and dirty deb :) | 12:02 |
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| psycho_oreos | Guess not eh? ;) lol | 12:12 |
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| HtheB | psycho_oreos, sorry i had to help a customer (im at work, at Vodafone) | 12:37 |
| HtheB | so, tell me what you want | 12:38 |
| HtheB | i killed an Sii. but revived it back using heimdall some time ago :P | 12:38 |
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| HtheB | poke me when you're ready | 12:40 |
| psycho_oreos | HtheB, :O rather convenient (imo.. LOL) I've got Samsung Galaxy S II (GT-I9100T) which was vodaphone AU (vodaphone boot logo). I managed to get it to not show up vodaphone AU with the help of another person in <you_know_where> though now I'm getting "Unfortunately, Samsung services has stopped working." It keeps showing up that message without letting me get out of those default greetings. | 12:41 |
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| psycho_oreos | s/ph/f/g | 12:42 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: HtheB, :O rather convenient (imo.. LOL) I've got Samsung Galaxy S II (GT-I9100T) which was vodafone AU (vodafone boot logo). I managed to get it to not show up vodafone AU with the help of another person in <you_know_where> though now I'm getting "Unfortu... | 12:42 |
| psycho_oreos | To be frank its not my phone and I don't intend to use it as main one. It was a hand me down to be passed onto another member of my family lol. | 12:44 |
| HtheB | oke | 12:44 |
| HtheB | hmmm | 12:44 |
| HtheB | so the phone boots just normally, right? | 12:45 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah, with a huge help from elsewhere I managed to get the phone to not go into "soft" freeze again. | 12:46 |
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| gomiam | hi everyone. I hope you are enjoying your holidays | 12:54 |
| gomiam | quick question: I get reception with one N900 (reheated in order to get the CMT back) and not with another one (which recognizes the SIM)... may the second one have some antenna problemas? | 12:57 |
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| gomiam | slow time of the day, it seems. | 13:15 |
| gomiam | I guess I'll try later. | 13:15 |
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| sardini | hello, | 14:32 |
| sardini | crisis, maemo updtae cssu and now it reboot more than 7x :( | 14:33 |
| sardini | usb broken, n900 to the trash? | 14:33 |
| joga | fix usb | 14:33 |
| freemangordon | sardini: do you have u-boot installed? | 14:33 |
| sardini | no | 14:34 |
| freemangordon | not good | 14:34 |
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| freemangordon | do not throw it in the trash, bring it to the nearest repair centre to fix your USB | 14:35 |
| sardini | anyone in the world can fix usb on n900? | 14:35 |
| freemangordon | butofc | 14:35 |
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| freemangordon | but ofc even :) | 14:35 |
| sardini | ofc? | 14:36 |
| freemangordon | of course | 14:36 |
| freemangordon | sardini: any scilled technician with appropriate tools can fix it | 14:36 |
| freemangordon | *skilled | 14:36 |
| freemangordon | a friand of mine got her USB broken a couple of months ago, she send the device to the shop she bought the device from, they fixed it for about 40 euro | 14:38 |
| freemangordon | shit, what's with me :( | 14:38 |
| freemangordon | FRIEND | 14:38 |
| sardini | I will suicide, my only phone since 3 years | 14:39 |
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| freemangordon | sardini: I don;t think the technicians in Bulgaria have some extraordinary skills :D. The ones in the place you live should be capable, you only need to ask ;) | 14:40 |
| sardini | sure i will do | 14:40 |
| joga | broken usb is common enough that probably many here can do it, but of course it depends on what way it broke | 14:40 |
| freemangordon | joga: :nod: | 14:40 |
| joga | if you just need to solder the connector back, not a big deal | 14:40 |
| joga | (not that I have done it myself though, I've been very tender to my n900) | 14:41 |
| joga | :) | 14:41 |
| freemangordon | joga: though even if it is badly broken, an additional wiring is possible | 14:41 |
| sardini | and this append at week-end, of course | 14:41 |
| freemangordon | (that is how my friends USB was repaired) | 14:42 |
| joga | freemangordon, yeah I guess it's mostly a matter of soldering skills, phone scale stuff can be a bit finicky | 14:42 |
| freemangordon | exactly | 14:42 |
| freemangordon | sardini: there could be 24/7 repair centres, just look for them | 14:42 |
| sardini | here impossible :) | 14:43 |
| freemangordon | well, maybe not 24/7, but 8/7 | 14:43 |
| freemangordon | sardini: where is "here"? | 14:43 |
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| joga | go to some bar where electronics people hang out, bring them a soldering iron and buy some beer and they might fix it | 14:44 |
| freemangordon | or that one :) | 14:44 |
| freemangordon | joga: hmm, better without the soldering iron | 14:44 |
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| inz | joga, on has to go there quite early in the evening though | 14:45 |
| joga | heh | 14:45 |
| joga | yeah better :) | 14:45 |
| inz | joga, otherwise they might ask hard questions like, which one of these ports is broken | 14:45 |
| freemangordon | inz: why, their hands will tremble less later on the evening :D | 14:45 |
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| sardini | I would like to live in your town | 14:46 |
| freemangordon | s/ on/ in/ | 14:46 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: inz: why, their hands will tremble less later in the evening :D | 14:46 |
| joga | you need to get there on time so they're getting a buzz but aren't too drunk that it's dangerous | 14:46 |
| inz | Decent buzz for steady hands and being gullible | 14:46 |
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| sardini | ohw a stupid update can broke a phone | 14:47 |
| sardini | bullshit | 14:47 |
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| freemangordon | sardini: did you try to remove the battery? | 14:48 |
| sardini | yes after 10 reboot I change the battery | 14:48 |
| freemangordon | did you try to remove uSD and SIM card? | 14:48 |
| sardini | nop | 14:48 |
| freemangordon | try it, worths nothing | 14:48 |
| freemangordon | worths/costs? | 14:49 |
| freemangordon | hmm, my english is getting worse and worse :( | 14:49 |
| sardini | remoce cards change nothing | 14:51 |
| sardini | remove | 14:51 |
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| freemangordon | sardini: well, I'm afraid there is no option then but to repair your USB :( | 14:51 |
| sardini | I think so | 14:52 |
| sardini | If I must buy a new phone adios jolla | 14:52 |
| sardini | only the t-shirt to cry :/ | 14:52 |
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| HtheB | freemangordon | 14:53 |
| HtheB | can you pacakge something for me into a deb file? | 14:54 |
| freemangordon | HtheB: hmm? | 14:54 |
| HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90909 | 14:54 |
| HtheB | this :( | 14:54 |
| freemangordon | hmm, never packaged a python script, not sure I'll get the dependencies correct | 14:55 |
| freemangordon | lemme try to find if it is already packaged | 14:55 |
| freemangordon | HtheB: BTW what is that, I googled for it and found nothing | 14:56 |
| freemangordon | ? | 14:56 |
| HtheB | liveview is a watch | 14:56 |
| HtheB | smartwatch | 14:56 |
| HtheB | from sonyericsson | 14:56 |
| freemangordon | oooh, i see | 14:56 |
| kerio | freemangordon: [re: ideas for thumbification] xorg on gcc47 | 14:57 |
| freemangordon | kerio: stop that !!! :P | 14:57 |
| kerio | it's the only thing i could think of | 14:57 |
| kerio | :s | 14:58 |
| freemangordon | kerio: xorg on gcc 472 won;t happen anytime soon | 14:58 |
| kerio | :( | 14:58 |
| freemangordon | we'll gain nothing | 14:58 |
| HtheB | freemangordon, would be awesome if its an easy installable deb file | 14:58 |
| HtheB | (maybe even in the repos?) | 14:59 |
| kerio | is mafw thumbified? | 14:59 |
| freemangordon | HtheB: yeah, got that, but as I toldya I've never packaged a python script. And I guess I'll need an icon ;) | 14:59 |
| freemangordon | HtheB: also this guy progprog said he'll continue his work on that, I guess he'll package it eventually | 15:00 |
| freemangordon | I don;t want to steal his project | 15:01 |
| HtheB | he'll be gone | 15:01 |
| HtheB | for a couple weeks :( | 15:01 |
| freemangordon | well, patience is the key word here :D | 15:02 |
| HtheB | (building a deb without uploading to the repos wouldnt harm i guess) | 15:02 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I know you're python fan, wanna do ^^^? | 15:02 |
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| freemangordon | (package a python script in a .deb) | 15:02 |
| kerio | i can hardly package a single-binary c package in a deb | 15:03 |
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| HtheB | booohooo | 15:24 |
| psycho_oreos | Its not easy when trying to see what to include, pack, etc. Besides it seems to use some other hardware which makes difficult for one who doesn't even own such a device (apart from N900) to work out a installable package. | 15:25 |
| HtheB | psycho_oreos, just pack as it is, and i'll report :D | 15:25 |
| psycho_oreos | There's two python files mentioned, menu_* stuff is not mentioned exactly where, there's a binary firmware which who knows if python scripts needs it. | 15:25 |
| psycho_oreos | HtheB, that's very blindly packing, and there's no maemo icon so it will look a bit ugly with default hildon blue box thing. | 15:26 |
| HtheB | dont care | 15:27 |
| HtheB | i can provide an icon if u need one | 15:27 |
| HtheB | harmattanized icon | 15:27 |
| psycho_oreos | Ok, but you still have missing issues to address, no menu_*.png as mentioned by author (I had quick glances in the two mentioned github repositories and found nothing related.). The firmware binary (??) needed? | 15:28 |
| HtheB | let me quickly see | 15:30 |
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| LjL | couldn't the N900 just get the time and date from the cellular and/or wifi network, rather than bugging me every time i remove the battery? | 15:57 |
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| sardini | LjL, try to wait a few seconds when you change battery. Shutdown, wait 1 minute, put the new battery (speed as you can), wait 1 minute and start. That's work for me.. | 15:59 |
| sardini | but don't update! bullshit | 15:59 |
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| sardini | maybe less than 1 minute | 16:00 |
| LjL | eh, i can't really change the battery very fast, because i don't have two batteries - i just remove it when i need to swap SIMs with another phone | 16:00 |
| kerio | sucks to be you i guess | 16:01 |
| kerio | i don't even have that dialog installed anymore | 16:01 |
| kerio | if i lose my clock, i just NTP it | 16:02 |
| SAiF | how? | 16:02 |
| LjL | kerio: well, that was my question | 16:03 |
| LjL | kerio: in the control panel there's an "automatically update", but apparently it doesn't change my date/time... probably because it's too much off? | 16:03 |
| LjL | kerio: i would be fine with clock from GSM and/or NTP, and no dialog | 16:03 |
| kerio | sudo ntpd -q -p 0.europe.pool.ntp.org -p 1.europe.pool.ntp.org -p 2.europe.pool.ntp.org -p 3.europe.pool.ntp.org && sudo hwclock -w | 16:03 |
| SAiF | if you do this once.. will it update automaticly everytime? | 16:04 |
| LjL | i don't think so, i imagine kerio has it in some init.d script | 16:04 |
| kerio | i run it manually | 16:05 |
| LjL | oh | 16:05 |
| SAiF | oo | 16:05 |
| LjL | yesterday i wanted to install Mer so i'd have something to play with while on holiday, but it refuses to boot :( | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | LjL: Some providers apparantly don't properly broadcast time. | 16:05 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: i think mine does, since iirc it works on other phones | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I've just installed a ntpd client - when the n900 loses time - it soon syncs | 16:06 |
| LjL | heh there's a "sync time now" widget in extras-testing | 16:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, this causes wierd timestamps if texts come in first | 16:06 |
| LjL | ah | 16:07 |
| LjL | SpeedEvil: which client is this that you have installed? just openntpd? | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget - I think so. | 16:08 |
| SpeedEvil | I would answer you - but I'd have to get up and go inside out of this nice sun. | 16:08 |
| LjL | heh no problem | 16:08 |
| LjL | it's just a small nuisance in any case | 16:08 |
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| newtti | Hmm, why does Conky show the cpu clock at 850mhz momentarily when the cpu-load is under 10... fact or fiction? | 19:00 |
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| kerio | fiction, probably | 19:06 |
| kerio | powertop reports 1150MHz | 19:06 |
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| kwtm | O no! Does my use of SQLite3 to access the ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db block modifications to the database? I happened to be executing a SQLite command, and a new SMS came in but won't show up on the database, nor does it display in a yellow window when I use the "present multitasking windows" view (whatever that's called). And now CallNotify keeps ringing to remind me to look at that new SMS which I can't see. | 19:51 |
| kwtm | Strange, and I didn't make any changes to the eventlogger db, just queried it. | 19:52 |
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| kwtm | I can see the SMS through the conversations widget, but CallNotify is still dinging every minute. | 19:52 |
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| kwtm | Oh, wait, I can't see the SMS. That was an old SMS I was viewing. So another possibility is that CallNotify is wrong in thinking that an SMS arrived. But the Maemo system itself beeped the "SMS sound" (not related to CallNotify, right?) | 19:54 |
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