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| DocScrutinizer05 | a short update for those wondering what's going on with all our woes on autobuilder|repo-management|administrative_maintenance: | 02:04 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-31 00:29:53] <DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: see /usr/share/php/midcom/lib/midcom/core/querybuilder.php line260 ==> | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-31 00:30:16] <DocScrutinizer05> /* Force read only mode when in anonymous mode */ | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-31 00:30:16] <DocScrutinizer05> if (!$_MIDCOM->auth->is_valid_user()) | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-31 00:30:16] <DocScrutinizer05> { | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-31 00:30:16] <DocScrutinizer05> $this->toggle_read_only(true); | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-31 00:30:16] <DocScrutinizer05> } | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-31 00:30:44] <DocScrutinizer05> comment out dat shite, done! | 02:04 |
| bef0rd | won't that allow anonymous users to "write" something? | 02:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | this little "optimization" crept in with some install of midgard packages between Dec 2012 and may of this year, and rendered broken an estimated 50..75% of the cronjobs that do all the updates of karma, planet, news, package-interface, repo, younameit | 02:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no, since normal authentication still applies | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this is just an optimization done to db-objects (queries) that are r/o and thus you can't change their properties/values/whatever-the-name. It does NOT control if you can or can not do an update to db | 02:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's kind like a "const" statement in c | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | according to midgard devels it's been done to reduce memory consumption | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see for example /lib/midcom/core/querybuilder.php | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (disclaimer: I have NFC about PHP) | 02:14 |
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| bef0rd | ah ok, I see some functions there to check privileges | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...and I hope that will _never_ ever have to change. I don't want to touch that stuff with a 15ft pole | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I've been tackling this since quite some time now | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 15:16:56] <mashiara> that warning comes from some legacy code trying to rewrite an ISO datetime to UNIX timestamp directly to an object | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 15:17:15] <mashiara> but if there is no used logged in objects are returned as read-only as this will increase performance | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 15:17:30] <mashiara> said legacy code is likely in the templates somewhere | 02:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 13:01:49] <DocScrutinizer05> mashiara: this is very first line of that kind that shows up in www VM maemo_http_error.log: | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 13:01:53] <DocScrutinizer05> [Fri Dec 28 09:31:26 2012] [error] [client 10.0.0.1] PHP Warning: (pid:20625): Can not write property. Object in read only mode in /usr/share/php/midcom/lib/midcom/core/dbaobject.php | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 15:55:02] <mashiara> it's old code trying to do things now forbidden issue | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 15:55:33] <mashiara> say we have $object->start property which contains ISO datetime as string | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 15:55:51] <mashiara> but we want to format it with date, in a few places | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-07-10 15:56:12] <mashiara> the clever template coder back in the day did $object->start = strtotime($object->start); | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this bites us on a multitude of levels | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | commenting out just one line might put maemo.org from - say - 30% working to 98% working | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, all that stuff worked once, some year plus change ago | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | broke down during migration#1 basically | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously due to some slightly newer midgard version got installed on the interim infra | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I first time since March see a chance to get maemo.org back to old shape, maybe even til end of this week | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks to freemangordon and his incredible energy investigating this particular issue | 02:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, on a sidenote, I deleted that rogue x11-data_withxdg package from repo for good, and freemangordon pushed repo-management to rebuild Packages.gz - so as a result this issue got solved today as well | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | autobuilder should work again as much as it did before 19th of this month | 02:35 |
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| user | are you friggin kidding me | 04:52 |
| user | just started up phone | 04:52 |
| user | got some issues with some custom made scripts not working | 04:53 |
| user | the reason? | 04:53 |
| user | ls: cannot access fixdate: Stale NFS file handle | 04:53 |
| user | perfect | 04:53 |
| user | oh and | 04:54 |
| robbiethe1st | stale nfs file handle, at least on mine, means filesystem corruption | 04:54 |
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| FIQ|n900 | yes I know | 04:54 |
| FIQ|n900 | the thing is | 04:54 |
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| FIQ|n900 | I already recovered the file system from an issue like this | 04:55 |
| FIQ|n900 | last week | 04:55 |
| robbiethe1st | It seems that whenever my N900 crashes, the optfs goes wonky | 04:56 |
| FIQ|n900 | will reboot and attempt to solve this with BM *again* | 04:56 |
| FIQ|n900 | hopefully it doesn't ruin the fs this time | 04:56 |
| robbiethe1st | Any damage is already done at this point | 04:56 |
| FIQ|n900 | what do you mean? | 04:57 |
| FIQ|n900 | also | 04:57 |
| robbiethe1st | The fact that it said 'stale nfs handle' means that that file is, more or less, gone | 04:57 |
| FIQ|n900 | this time it was definitely not caused by a hard reboot | 04:57 |
| FIQ|n900 | it might have been last time | 04:57 |
| robbiethe1st | fdisk can probably fix the rest, but you probably won't get the file back | 04:58 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh but I have a backup of that file | 04:58 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah, that's the only way | 04:58 |
| FIQ|n900 | my problem is mainly actually solving it with fsck | 04:58 |
| FIQ|n900 | last time I fsck-ed optfs | 04:58 |
| FIQ|n900 | it destroyed the file system somehow | 04:58 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah, happens to me too | 04:58 |
| robbiethe1st | Best thing is to back it up, then restore | 04:58 |
| FIQ|n900 | and e2fs claimed I was being a bonehead for having it mounted (it wasn't) | 04:58 |
| robbiethe1st | part of the restore is a complete FS wipe/repartition in BM | 04:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | you're the author of bm, right? | 04:59 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah | 05:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | just curious, will creation of optfs backup actually work on a corrupted file system? | 05:00 |
| robbiethe1st | It'll try. | 05:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | otherwise I'll have to tar it manually with tar (that worked last time) | 05:00 |
| robbiethe1st | If it's mountable, it'll mount and backup whatever files are there | 05:00 |
| robbiethe1st | Considering it does exactly that, it should do as well as you can | 05:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | mkay | 05:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | will backup | 05:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | try to fsck | 05:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | if fsck fail, restore optfs only | 05:01 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah | 05:01 |
| robbiethe1st | Heck, you can restore your old optfs backup, if you haven't installed too many programs since | 05:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | hm | 05:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | that's true | 05:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | but then I have to deal with the application desynchs I had to deal with before | 05:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh well, at least I know *which* broke now | 05:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | instead of discovering them as I go lol | 05:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | see you | 05:02 |
| robbiethe1st | btw, apt-get install --reinstall helps with that | 05:02 |
| FIQ|n900 | yeah I know | 05:03 |
| robbiethe1st | k | 05:03 |
| FIQ|n900 | did that a lot last optfs restore (didn't restore rootfs because I lacked rootfs for the right kernel) | 05:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: there's a pretty fuzzy naming around BM | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | optfs is not existing | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest to clearly name either the partition or the mountpoint | 05:14 |
| robbiethe1st | Uh... huh? | 05:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so mmcblk0p2, or /home | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | optfs is no term you can actually find anywhere in an docs, and it suggests that maybe only /opt is saved which probably(!?) is incorrect | 05:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't need to explain that /opt is a bindmount | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: you were a bit ambiguous if you'd appreciate a devel device or not. I'd like to make this happen anyway unless you say you do not accept any such support | 05:21 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh, I thought I said 'yes' | 05:24 |
| robbiethe1st | Let me edit my post slightly | 05:25 |
| robbiethe1st | There | 05:26 |
| robbiethe1st | Must have been slightly tired | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 05:26 |
| robbiethe1st | (well, really tired. which is typical) | 05:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm also a bit tired right now, which is completely atypic for me, but maybe related to the percieved great achievement in bugfixing maemo.org today | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | feels good to smash the bug | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, right now we got it just sitting in the bucket, smashing happens tomorrow ;-D | 05:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: I just checked your edit, and I think it's just more confusing XD | 05:33 |
| robbiethe1st | *sigh* | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe get some sleep first ? | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 05:34 |
| robbiethe1st | How do I say | 05:34 |
| robbiethe1st | "yeah, i'm poor, I'll take it" but be very polite and humble about it | 05:34 |
| robbiethe1st | <_< | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehehe | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme help you out ;-) | 05:35 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah... | 05:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | "HELL YEAH! MINE MINE MINE MINE!!" | 05:37 |
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| robbiethe1st | GeneralAntilles, might be what I'm thinking, but I'd not say it | 05:47 |
| robbiethe1st | Cause, you know, I at least /pretend/ to be humble. Because polite | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whatever, man. | 05:52 |
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| AndrewX192 | hm... I can't enter my lock code (despite cracking it) on a device that hasn't been turned on in a few months - ideas? | 07:23 |
| AndrewX192 | (I can't reflash since the USB port is dead) | 07:23 |
| AndrewX192 | I'm in BackupMenu currently | 07:24 |
| SAiF | hmm.. anyone? | 07:30 |
| psycho_oreos | If you have also tried the default lock code which also fails (there should be two types) then you are probably better off at getting that USB port fixed. | 07:34 |
| AndrewX192 | 12345? doesn't work | 07:36 |
| AndrewX192 | It's like /dev/mtd1 is corrupt.. if I look at the whole thing I see my lock code (hashed) where I can crack it, and it's what it's supposed to be | 07:37 |
| AndrewX192 | but if I use "getlockcode" it returns root:: | 07:37 |
| psycho_oreos | Try 00000 | 07:37 |
| AndrewX192 | that doesn't work either | 07:38 |
| AndrewX192 | I might as well chroot it or something | 07:39 |
| AndrewX192 | stupid charge.sh spams a lot though | 07:39 |
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| psycho_oreos | Ideally it would be wise to get that USB port fixed. | 07:56 |
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| kerio | FIQ: obligatory protip: don't use the stock fsck, it's shit | 08:39 |
| kerio | either install an updated version, or work on a recent linux install on a computer | 08:39 |
| kerio | and to avoid any flash wonkiness, dd the whole partition, fsck it, copy the data, then rebuild the partition on the n900 and copy the data back | 08:40 |
| SAiF | what does this mean to an ordinary user like me? | 08:47 |
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| kerio | SAiF: keep calm and reflash | 09:02 |
| kerio | also, wtf | 09:02 |
| kerio | if you're an ordinary user, why are you using a n900 | 09:03 |
| kerio | ? | 09:03 |
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| SAiF | hahaha!!! | 09:06 |
| SAiF | I am just ordinary user, but I wish to become like you, and thats why I am listening to this channel | 09:07 |
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| SAiF | and I am always calm, english as a second language, I just dont know emotions in my sentences, I just only know the meanings, | 09:10 |
| SAiF | sorry, if I sounded rude. | 09:10 |
| SAiF | kerio: :) | 09:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | An ordinary user still using N900? that's rare, the majority would have probably migrated to some other software leaving mainly the rest behind. | 09:44 |
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| joga | ? migrated to other software? | 09:48 |
| psycho_oreos | *ahem* as in using other <insert_some_other_phone_phablet_tablet_etc_OS_here>. | 09:49 |
| joga | I will, when someone releases a phone that's even half of n900 | 09:49 |
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| joga | preferably the hw keyboard half | 09:50 |
| joga | I own an android tablet and they're such toys in comparison | 09:50 |
| psycho_oreos | I think motorola does produce some android phones with qwerty keyboard. Albeit usually old and rare. | 09:51 |
| joga | just the hw keyboard is not really enough, it's the bare minimum | 09:52 |
| joga | and sadly I don't even trust android enough to do anything serious with it, like using ssh :p | 09:52 |
| psycho_oreos | A few of us I guess are thinking of the same thing as well.. to migrate would be something at least half of what maemo was. Inevitably trend won't head that way in the foreseeable future. | 09:54 |
| joga | so obvious solution is to use n900 until it breaks | 09:54 |
| * joga tries to be very gentle with it ;p | 09:54 | |
| psycho_oreos | and/or keep more copies of N900 :) | 09:54 |
| joga | yeah, wish I had had spare money when some used ones were still available for cheap, would have bought like 5 or something | 09:55 |
| psycho_oreos | You might still be able to obtain more, the question lies invariably on availability and/or the quality. These days I hear more and more stories of owners with broken N900 USB ports. | 09:57 |
| joga | yeah, I've been fortunate (or careful enough) to be spared of that fate | 09:57 |
| psycho_oreos | Same here except I don't think that is the only place to be aware of. Just recently I heard an owner of (what is now very much a) dead N800, I guess it will be matter of time too for N900's turn. | 09:59 |
| psycho_oreos | s/much a)/much) a/ | 10:00 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: Same here except I don't think that is the only place to be aware of. Just recently I heard an owner of (what is now very much) a dead N800, I guess it will be matter of time too for N900's turn. | 10:00 |
| joga | heh my n800 is still fine | 10:00 |
| * psycho_oreos shrugs I've only managed to get into the scene was matter of pure coincidential values with N900. Never knew about the rest of the maemo family. | 10:01 | |
| psycho_oreos | Rather before getting introduced to N900 was when I never heard of maemo. | 10:03 |
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| SAiF | Has anybody here seen this project? http://tox.im/ | 10:13 |
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| drathir | brolin_empey: sadly mine isnt on warranty, need to find repair place, but if i good saw in poland is person knowing about that, maybe get me some tips... | 11:21 |
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| kerio | no powersaving on wifi is ridiculous | 13:00 |
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| kerio | drains my battery dry | 13:01 |
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| edheldil | psycho_oreos: add to it owners with broken GSM modem | 13:10 |
| Lava_Croft | oh the joy of flashing android crap | 13:13 |
| psycho_oreos | edheldil, not as many as those with broken USB ports but granted yes. There are also owners with broken bits and pieces :) I heard maybe a few with minijack playing up along with one that has a dead eMMC. Also a fair few would be affected with that faulty built-in cell battery. | 13:14 |
| kerio | nobody has a working bupba | 13:14 |
| kerio | t | 13:14 |
| psycho_oreos | ~bupbat | 13:15 |
| infobot | methinks bupbat is use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VG1/587-2157-1-ND/1959153, or https://hbe-shop.de/KONDENSATOR006F-33V-STAKED-COIN | 13:15 |
| jpinx | n900's don't seem to have a date of manufacture anywhere | 13:15 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpinx, they sort of do on the fancy box itself iinm. | 13:15 |
| jpinx | where? | 13:16 |
| * jpinx has the battery out | 13:16 | |
| psycho_oreos | Where the barcode is, there is a number there somewhere which sort of narrows it down to month and year of manufacture iinm. | 13:17 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpinx, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=546651&postcount=810 | 13:23 |
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| kwtm | Hello. How do I find which package a given file/program is in? e.g. if I want to run Program1, do I install PackageOfProgramsA, or PackageOfProgramsB, etc.? (I already know how to use "apt-file list pkgname" if I already know the package name, but I'm trying to find the package name, which is likely not yet installed) | 13:25 |
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| kerio | dpkg -S pathname | 13:26 |
| kerio | oh | 13:26 |
| psycho_oreos | I was about to say :) | 13:26 |
| kerio | not installed? | 13:26 |
| kerio | it's stored inside debs | 13:26 |
| kerio | tough luck | 13:26 |
| psycho_oreos | If you know the exact name of the program and where its stored (ideally the full path) you can probably google it up and then try narrowing it down to maemo specific. If lucky you might get it. | 13:27 |
| kwtm | kerio: Ok. Thx anyway. Yeah, I'm basically trying to figure out what to install. It's unlikely that I've already installed it, in such circumstances. | 13:29 |
| kwtm | psycho_oreos: Thx anyway. I'm going to try looking it up in the Ubuntu search --usually they keep the same package arrangements as the rest of Debian. | 13:30 |
| kerio | kwtm: what do you want to install? | 13:31 |
| jpinx | psycho_oreos: here's my label, but no date that I can figure out :( http://picpaste.com/20130731_009-9SWZoXzv.jpg | 13:34 |
| kwtm | kerio: Looking for an image viewer for KDE that doesn't crap out when meta information is corrupted (but the image data itself is fine) | 13:35 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx, not your N900 lol. The retail packaging box (if you still have it). | 13:35 |
| kwtm | Oh, look, apparently in addition to "apt-file list", there's "apt-file search" that can find what package a file is in, without the package needing to be installed. | 13:35 |
| jon_y | truly, apt is the perfect app manager | 13:36 |
| jpinx | kwtm: or dpkg -l | grep <packagepartname> | 13:36 |
| jon_y | praise be to debian | 13:36 |
| kwtm | jpinx: No, that doesn't work: the package has to be installed first. | 13:36 |
| psycho_oreos | jpinx, that's only for installed packages, and its a crude way :) | 13:36 |
| jon_y | maybe google <programname> debian for clues | 13:37 |
| kwtm | jpinx: Also, it's dpkg -L, not dpkg -l (the latter lists package names, not filenames) | 13:37 |
| psycho_oreos | You can make it into a for loop but its one hell of a ugly hack with excess pipes and other tools like awk/sed required. | 13:38 |
| kwtm | Hmm, looks like I found the answer. I had heard of "apt-file list" and "apt-cache search" but had not realized there was a "apt-file search" before today. | 13:38 |
| kwtm | Thanks, people! :) | 13:38 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah I learnt dpkg -S just the other day :). | 13:39 |
| * jpinx missed the bit where the pkg isn't actually installed yet | 13:39 | |
| jpinx | kwtm: explore packages.debian.org (or is it .net) | 13:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | jpinx, you still have that retail packaging box for your N900? | 13:40 |
| jpinx | psycho_oreos: nope :( long gone - but still have the paper manual :) | 13:42 |
| jpinx | it's about 5 years old | 13:42 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah the label on the retail packaging would have indicate the week and year of manufacture. By no means that is exact but its probably better than nothing. | 13:43 |
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| jpinx | I know it's a very early one, but it's soldiering on well | 13:45 |
| psycho_oreos | Looking at that photo and trying to decrypt various printing on it. I think the one with three forward slashes is probably the IMEI number, thought it might be useful for trying to pinpoint the manufacture dates. Apart from that it seems like the warranty or protection something is voided. There's Chinese words on that sticker near the JTAG area with a hole in it. | 13:45 |
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| psycho_oreos | Not as early as the pre-release ones, they were made in Finland and probably not many are still working well. | 13:46 |
| jpinx | yea - I've had it apart a couple of times after a local (thailand) shop tried to fix a screen problem | 13:46 |
| psycho_oreos | Ahh. | 13:46 |
| jpinx | they stuck chinese stickers everywhere | 13:47 |
| jpinx | and I ended up fixing the screen myself - | 13:47 |
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| jon_y | this land is now claimed by China :) | 13:47 |
| jpinx | yea - something like that | 13:47 |
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| jon_y | I still have my N900 box | 13:48 |
| psycho_oreos | Rather "this piece of equipment is now owned by China" lol. | 13:48 |
| jpinx | I travel too much to accumulate a lot of stuff | 13:48 |
| jpinx | I have an eeepc and 2 n900's | 13:48 |
| jon_y | I need more n900s | 13:49 |
| jpinx | been contemplating how to replace them when they die - all are getting old and well used | 13:49 |
| jpinx | jon_y: you want one of mine ? :) | 13:49 |
| jon_y | jpinx: sure | 13:49 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah I know when travelling its never fun to take too many N900 retail boxes (for each N900 bought overseas). It tends to give customs the wrong impressions. | 13:49 |
| jon_y | if it boots and usb isn't broke | 13:49 |
| jpinx | jon_y: it's cool - did you pick up the link to the picpaste? | 13:50 |
| jon_y | psycho_oreos: tell them it calms you down psychologically :) | 13:50 |
| jon_y | not yet | 13:50 |
| psycho_oreos | Apart from excess luggage that is. Nonetheless the N900 packaging was fancy of its day and age. I still have most of my retail packaging boxes however. | 13:50 |
| psycho_oreos | jon_y, after paying import taxes yes :) | 13:50 |
| jon_y | how much after tax? :( | 13:51 |
| jon_y | where are you at anyway? | 13:51 |
| jpinx | I'm in Thailand atm :) | 13:51 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't know, at the time N900 was still available to purchase from the shops overseas (despite only a handful of stores that still manage to carry them). | 13:51 |
| jon_y | in that case, I'm just down south in Malaysia | 13:52 |
| jpinx | jon_y: pm? | 13:52 |
| jon_y | sure | 13:52 |
| psycho_oreos | It was best that I carry the extra N900s in my pockets and hope they won't question about it all. | 13:53 |
| jpinx | one in pocket and one in handluggage ;) | 13:55 |
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| psycho_oreos | For me (at the time) it was one in outer (visible) jacket pockets and the other on the inner (hidden) jacket pockets. I love how asians design the jackets, they've considered about people pickpocketing and those extra (hidden) pockets can come in handy for various purposes. | 13:58 |
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| jpinx | going through security kinda blows that ;) | 14:09 |
| psycho_oreos | It does but its best hope that they're in good mood, if you're having constant misfortune you might end up getting thoroughly searched and thorougly taxed for whatever you failed to claim. | 14:11 |
| psycho_oreos | s/best hope/best to hope/ | 14:12 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: It does but its best to hope that they're in good mood, if you're having constant misfortune you might end up getting thoroughly searched and thorougly taxed for whatever you failed to claim. | 14:12 |
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| Lava_Croft | http://webnewsvoice.com/nexus-5-and-nokia-focus-release-with-android-5-0/ | 14:39 |
| * Lava_Croft chuckles | 14:40 | |
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| jon_y | Lava_Croft: what unholy union is this? | 14:43 |
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| jon_y | unholy struct, unholly enum hehe | 14:43 |
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| Lava_Croft | :) | 14:46 |
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| drathir | lol right made in korea not finland :/ | 14:53 |
| jon_y | if it means I can root it and install maemo, I might just forgive Nokia | 14:54 |
| jon_y | gnu userland would be pretty nice | 14:55 |
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| psycho_oreos | ... you do realise that new phone isn't going to happen right? | 15:02 |
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| Lava_Croft | Any reason why tracker, when rebuildings its db, seems to now ignore a lot of my music files | 15:19 |
| Lava_Croft | hmm, maybe it just takes longer to index flac files | 15:21 |
| Lava_Croft | or not | 15:21 |
| Lava_Croft | it popped up the notification about adding new files and then didnt add anything new | 15:21 |
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| Lava_Croft | reinstalling ogg-support fixt it | 15:25 |
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| LjL | nice to see Fennec on Maemo is as slow as i remember Fennec on Android being :P | 15:32 |
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| Lava_Croft | :D | 15:34 |
| Lava_Croft | current android firefox is kind of ok | 15:35 |
| Lava_Croft | it just has a horrible UI | 15:35 |
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| LjL | i haven't used the more recent versions. besides, on my Milestone i doubt it would be very usable anyway, it's just an old phone by now... | 15:37 |
| LjL | anyway it's ok since i don't mind MicroB | 15:37 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont mind microb if im stuck in a bubble where time moves 10x slower than the rest of the world | 15:38 |
| Lava_Croft | er faster | 15:38 |
| Lava_Croft | hurrr | 15:38 |
| LjL | heh | 15:38 |
| LjL | yeah it's a bit slow | 15:38 |
| LjL | but then so is Fennec, so not sure what other choices i have :P | 15:38 |
| LjL | (except ones that look ugly) | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: bupbat is also http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90864 | 15:48 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 15:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Lava_Croft> hmm, maybe it just takes longer to index flac files)) missing flac support in tracker is a known issue, cured by re-running the postinstall of flac package iirc | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, or ogg package ;-P | 15:58 |
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| kerio | Lava_Croft: mh, i always found microb to be much faster than any other browser, on n900 | 16:09 |
| kerio | except for opera mobile | 16:09 |
| kerio | which is not a browser | 16:09 |
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| jon_y | opera is an image downloader :) | 16:15 |
| LjL | kerio: it's slow compared to my Android browser (which runs on a very similarly specced phone), though | 16:17 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, is advanced-power and advanced-power-monitor a good idea to install, or somehow troublesome? | 16:17 |
| kerio | LjL: it's crap | 16:17 |
| kerio | if you want a fancier battery applet, install the one from pali | 16:17 |
| kerio | the package is in cssu-devel | 16:18 |
| LjL | ugh, so many repositories :P can i install that while not actually having cssu-devel installed? | 16:18 |
| kerio | yes | 16:18 |
| kerio | a repository is just a bunch of files | 16:18 |
| kerio | LjL: http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/s/status-area-applet-battery/status-area-applet-battery_1.0-8_armel.deb | 16:19 |
| kerio | it should Just Work⢠| 16:19 |
| LjL | yeah i know, but it's possible a package from a repository will break stuff if it's supposed to be used with everything from that repository up to date | 16:19 |
| LjL | ok | 16:19 |
| kerio | why do you want advanced power monitor? | 16:19 |
| kerio | are you using some kind of bme replacement? | 16:19 |
| kerio | idk if it'll help, actually | 16:19 |
| kerio | make sure you're in a position where you can reinstall the stock one | 16:20 |
| kerio | just by uninstalling and reinstalling, it would work | 16:20 |
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| LjL | kerio: i have nothing fancy, would just like some more detailed battery info (although i realize they can be inaccurate) than just a green block that i have to guess the tallness of :P | 16:23 |
| kerio | then the new battery applet should help with that | 16:23 |
| kerio | but it's still awfully inaccurate, unless you calibrate bq27k | 16:23 |
| kerio | in face | 16:23 |
| kerio | fact | 16:23 |
| kerio | calibrate bq27k | 16:24 |
| kerio | it's cool | 16:24 |
| LjL | i'll probably do that later, just not got around to it yet | 16:26 |
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| kerio | especially if you then install the bme replacement | 16:28 |
| kerio | you get a stupidly accurate meter | 16:28 |
| kerio | for everything | 16:28 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: how precise is bq27k? | 16:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: in its principles of operation it's extremely precise | 16:32 |
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| LjL | meh, i'm looking at cssu-testing and wanting to install bits of this and bits of that, is it going to be tragic if i just upgrade to cssu-testing? how "testing" is it? :P | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course there are factors like battery chemistry introduced efficiency (ratio between energy you charged and energy that can get discharged) that bq27200 can not meter | 16:34 |
| kerio | LjL: it's literally the testest | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but that gas gauge as such is very accurate | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | cssu-t for long time been pretty stable and of good quality add-on on top of stock fremantle. Recently though it tends to transform towards some sort of experimental independent incompatible distro | 16:38 |
| kerio | eeeeh | 16:40 |
| kerio | we just need to hold pali back a bit | 16:40 |
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| LjL | uhm | 16:44 |
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| kerio | also, DocScrutinizer05 is lyin | 16:56 |
| kerio | g | 16:56 |
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| LjL | kerio: ah, the applet looks good, no frills and it just gives me some estimate. it's what i was looking for. i'll install cssu-testing now | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: yes, always I'm lying. So cssu-t was shit all times, and didn't change at all recently | 17:05 |
| LjL | how come HAM and FAM have different repository lists? that's a bit annoying. i assumed they both just used /etc/apt/sources.list but apparently not | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: are you aware that an accusation of lying is a severe insult? | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~fapman | 17:06 |
| infobot | well, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU). It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. | 17:06 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, often saying "x is lying" after someone says something in a bit of an exaggerate/playful way merely means "x is being facetious, he doesn't really mean it". that's how i took it, anyway | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I didn't | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | neither of both | 17:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | each single word of my staement about cssu-t above been carefully chosen | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to support that statement I may say that I refuse to update since cssu-t7.2 | 17:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and I honestly consider to reflash my daily phone and then swtich to CSSU-S | 17:13 |
| LjL | i sense that while there is a lot of expertise around Maemo and friends, there may also be a fair bit of mutual developer hostility ;( | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't agree with either of your two statements in there | 17:14 |
| LjL | i could certainly be wrong about them since i just came here. it's just a general first impression. | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw cssu-devel is basically NOT a repo | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least not in the sense any normal user would understand the term | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as a general rule, you should stay away from it by all means, unless you're interested in breaking your device to test a particular package | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's developers' dropbox | 17:21 |
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| LjL | yeah, i read the TMO disclaimers | 17:22 |
| LjL | i just installed that battery applet | 17:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | good | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even better if it actually works for you | 17:24 |
| LjL | is there a way to have a reasonably working portrait keyboard? the default one gets all crammed in portrait mode (when it shows up as such at all), i saw there's a dialpad-style "portrait-keyboard", but when i install it, it gets used for landscape too | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I don't know. I'm not particularly interested in portrait mode, since otherwise... I could have moved on to N9 already | 17:29 |
| LjL | heh | 17:29 |
| LjL | i'm used to use a portait virtual keyboard and the physical keyboard alternatively, depending on how much and what kind of stuff i need writing | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there been a few quite nice keyboards in openmoko, you might want to port and test them maybe ;-) | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | full qwerty kbd needs stylus for the minuscule keys. predictive error-correcting keyboard is useful only for plain text that the dictionary can predict/correct. The transparent fullscreen kbd is pretty nice for some usecases and actually finger-friendly | 17:32 |
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| jaska | sharp fingernail also kinda works.. being resistive ts | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | [notice] preemptively announcing maemo.org service downtime later on | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmo probably will be fine | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the rest might go down for a few hours | 19:09 |
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| LjL | jaska: yeah, i often use my nails with resistive screen, took me a while to adjust to "clumsy" capacitive thumb usage | 19:21 |
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| LjL | although now i'm back on a resistive screen, of course, it feels awkward being now used to capacitive :P | 19:21 |
| jaska | yeah im incapable of operating capacitive without a conductive stylus | 19:21 |
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| LjL | i just hate using virtual keyboards on one | 19:22 |
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| jaska | i just refuse to use keyboardless :) | 19:22 |
| Lava_Croft | stylus is tool of the gods | 19:22 |
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| LjL | kerio, can you give me a pointer about the alternative BME? all i know about it is that when i tried installed advanced-power a few days ago, there was "BME Alternative" in the options :P | 19:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 beats Lava_Croft with his eten-M800 stylus | 19:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 19:25 |
| LjL | also, i'm not sure, but it seems maybe GPS assistance works again after i installed this random hack from cssu-devel O.o actually i have satellites now, but i'm indoors, so i doubt it got a fix without assistance | 19:25 |
| Lava_Croft | Don't you beat me, nerd!!!1 | 19:25 |
| Lava_Croft | I cycled today, muscles ache | 19:25 |
| Lava_Croft | also it rained, so my carton n900 bicycle case died | 19:25 |
| Lava_Croft | so the last thing i need is someone hitting me with his 'stylus' | 19:25 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 19:26 |
| LjL | the N810 might not be as hardware-capable as the N900 but damn does it look sleek | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YES! | 19:27 |
| LjL | N810 isn't actually mine, it was a present for my sister, but by now my sister has got an Android phone and stopped using the N810, so i reclaimed it :P | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I still think it has the better kbd. Others like to disagree | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the N810 key mapping is weird, but the kbd hw feels better to me than the N900's | 19:29 |
| LjL | i don't know about that... the keys are more spaced, it "looks" better, it has more of them... but they're SO HARD to press | 19:29 |
| LjL | the N950 keyboard looks very nice, but i never had the luxury to see it for real | 19:29 |
| Lava_Croft | 5510 had the lovely KB | 19:29 |
| LjL | ew, no | 19:30 |
| LjL | if we want to talk about lovely keyboards, let's talk Psion | 19:30 |
| Lava_Croft | psion, Keyboards with an attached screen! | 19:30 |
| Lava_Croft | >_> | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N950 keyboard is abysmal | 19:30 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, those were very nice | 19:30 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05: oh? | 19:30 |
| Lava_Croft | n950 keys look all flat | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you basically can't type "blind"(?) on it | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the keys are *very* hard to distinguish tactile | 19:31 |
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| LjL | hmm. weird, in the pictures, they look more spaced than on either the N900 or the N810, so i assumed you could feel the space between them much better | 19:32 |
| Lava_Croft | n950 keyboard looks like an apple one | 19:32 |
| Lava_Croft | where the keys are just flat | 19:32 |
| LjL | on the N900 i basically can't, the only thing that helps is the keys themselves being curved | 19:32 |
| LjL | yeah | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they ARE just flat | 19:32 |
| Lava_Croft | horrible:< | 19:32 |
| Lava_Croft | they need to be curved either convex or concave | 19:32 |
| Lava_Croft | if those are even the right terms | 19:33 |
| LjL | fortunately my Milestone, too, has curved keys - because apparently some versions of it didn't - and i'm pretty sure i couldn't type on it with flat keys | 19:33 |
| LjL | Lava_Croft: they should be | 19:33 |
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| LjL | still, my tactile cue on keyboards like the Psion's is not so much the curvature, but the "edges" of the keys. that's missing on the N900, N810 and Milestone | 19:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | N950 kbd is the second worst hw qwerty kbd I ever ran into. Absolute winner in that category is eten-M800 which not even has gaps between keys, and they are all black except the tiny writing which isn't at center of keycap | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so even when you look at the keyboard you always press some additional keys above and/or left of the one you intended to press | 19:37 |
| Lava_Croft | my western european hands work fine with n900 | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly in the dark | 19:38 |
| Lava_Croft | (ie. big hands) | 19:38 |
| Lava_Croft | i must admit that it got a bit old to carry around a BT keyboard | 19:38 |
| Lava_Croft | and on the train put your phone on the table and get out the keyboard | 19:38 |
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| LjL | WM phones... i have an HTC Universal, that's not bad, both keyboard-wise and in other ways | 19:42 |
| LjL | however (i assume that's common to all WM phones) when you "turn it off", it actually goes into some suspend mode and can't stay connected to TCP/IP... if you actually want it to stay connected, then the battery dies in like 4 hours | 19:43 |
| LjL | i guess it's intended to be more of PocketPC + a phone module thing, than an always-on device | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1364135#post1364135 | 19:53 |
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| RzR | hi | 20:49 |
| RzR | anyone from south america around ? | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | [GENERAL NOTICE] maemo.org going down for maintenance NOW | 22:07 |
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