IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2013-07-27

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sixwheeledbeastPlus they eat battery. good for watching an application eat you juice.00:10
DocScrutinizer05LjL: get bq27k-detail and/or bq27200.sh00:19
infoboti heard bq27k-detail is
DocScrutinizer05it might lie to you as well, but at least it tells when it lies00:20
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* LjL gets00:21
DocScrutinizer05but in the end of a day, it doesn't really matter what's (been) the charge of your battery. All that matters is how long your device could run without charging00:21
DocScrutinizer05and believe me, very simple little changes in your usage patterns will have way more impact to that standby-figure than any difference between 80% and 95%, no matter if perceived/bogus or real00:23
DocScrutinizer05e.g shutting down LCD backlight brightness by one step might already double your battery-lifetime00:24
DocScrutinizer05NOT using battery-eye and other similar meters may increase standby time by factor 5 or more00:24
ecc2gis battery-eye that bad in terms of power consumption? wow...00:26
ecc2gI was thinking about all the writes it needs to do, that definitely doesn't help.00:27
LjLwell i didn't intent to keep battery-eye and BatteryGraph installed indefinitely, this is basically... well, partly a green light to give the seller positive feedback :P00:28
sixwheeledbeastAny battery monitor application will use process to log the data, use for diagnoses but not long term IMO. Best tool is powertop really.00:29
LjLyeah that wiki page mentions powertop, that's a good hint, i knew about it but probably wouldn't have occurred to me00:29
SpeedEvilBattery monitors don't use perceptible power, if written correctly.00:30
DocScrutinizer05powertop doesn't help for hw sanity checks00:30
SpeedEvilLogging power every minute or so does not use noticable power.00:30
DocScrutinizer05there's been that healthcheck app00:30
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: yeah, but those I checked so far very often had quirks00:31
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DocScrutinizer05like unconditionally updating graphic display 10/s00:31
LjLBatteryGraph has an "update" button, i don't think it updates the display otherwise, and besides, you don't have to keep the actual GUI app running. the background process, though... i have no idea how efficient it is00:32
DocScrutinizer05well, THAT will need powertop to tell you00:33
LjLheh yep00:33
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DocScrutinizer05generally lightweight processes are not too bad to battery, even when awaking once per second00:34
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DocScrutinizer05writing to flash otoh...00:34
DocScrutinizer05flash writing is not exactly humble on power00:34
LjLthe N900's keyboard could use a bunch more keys, methinks00:35
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DocScrutinizer05with you can do a simple "test" (rather, experiment): run 30, and then run it with parameter 5. First one will give you idle figures since it always reads out values of past 5s window. so obviously the second reads own power consumption of last cycle00:37
DocScrutinizer05while thanks to beauty of unix and maemo, a sleep nnn doesn't consume any power at all00:39
SpeedEvilAlso - with properly working power saving wifi - the above sleep 30/... - showing over wifi/ssh - will not use appreciably more power00:39
DocScrutinizer05so you could have 50 "running" scripts that all wait on a sleep 3600 and your power consumption is exactly like on a completely idle system00:39
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DocScrutinizer05:nod: that too. Note that SpeedEvil did large parts (~90%) of wiki power info00:40
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ecc2gI suspect that battery-eye sleeps a lot, but it definitely needs to write to flash.  I guess I will have to see if I get 5x standby if I disable it...00:41
DocScrutinizer05a while :; do :; done though... :-o00:42
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ecc2g:(){:;:&};: ?00:42
ecc2g(if I remember it correctly... ugh.)00:42
ecc2g(btw, dont try this, please...)00:43
DocScrutinizer05looks correct00:43
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DocScrutinizer05err, maybe not00:44
DocScrutinizer05I'd probably write it like :(){:&;:};:00:45
ecc2gyeah that's probably better00:45
ecc2glooks like the original one uses | and not ; for the internal function which makes more sense00:46
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ecc2gI also wonder if messybox/ash knows how to run this :) (then again, this should be standard bourne shell...)00:52
LjLso, i was reading and am now looking at the bq27k-detail2 output... VDQ = 1, CI = 1, is my understanding correct that this means i should probably let the phone discharge fully without charging it or shutting it down, and after that the battery logic should hopefully be better calibrated?01:00
DocScrutinizer05ecc2g: I bet busybox *will* run this01:01
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ecc2gyeah i suspect it should, as it's only standard bourne shell versus having bashisms01:02
DocScrutinizer05while I doubt it would run the cure  trap "" SIGHUP; while killall -sighup busybox; do :; done01:03
DocScrutinizer05I had to kill dbus-scripting this way, when I was silly enough to place the script into the hooks config dir01:06
ecc2gLjL: word of warning, make sure you kill bme before it drops to around 3.4V, else it will shutdown and never hit EDV1...01:07
DocScrutinizer05it's actually amazing how usable maemo still is with such kind of fork bomb running01:07
DocScrutinizer05LjL: err yes.01:09
ecc2ghonestly i've never forkbombed a computer before, i'll have to try it on one of my junk computers.01:09
DocScrutinizer05check dir where you got bq27k-detail from, it should also have a script for calibrating01:09
LjLecc2g: ah, so that page's instructions weren't just so that fancy numbers would show up :P the system doesn't care about the battery being calibrated i guess01:09
DocScrutinizer05yep, system doesn't care01:10
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LjLDocScrutinizer05: that's no?01:10
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LjLLast Measured Discharge: 1844mAh - err, right :D01:17
ecc2gI got something like that when I first got my n90001:17
DocScrutinizer05cycles since last learning is interesting01:19
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DocScrutinizer05LjL: since calibration is max 1/8 down per learning cycle, you actually might need to run several learning cycles til you reach a correct value for LMD01:20
DocScrutinizer05two or three01:21
DocScrutinizer051844 might be ILMD, which you get after full reset (battery removed for extended periods of time)01:22
DocScrutinizer05see "cycles since last full reset"01:22
DocScrutinizer05if both cycle counts are identical, then you obviously have to have ILMD as LMD01:23
DocScrutinizer05btw I wrote that little fancy for kerio, who since might have improved it01:25
DocScrutinizer05ecc2g: how about forkbombing a VM?01:27
ecc2gwhat fun would that be? :D01:27
ecc2gyou know, forkbomb ... UML! HAHAHAHA01:27
DocScrutinizer05UML like unified modeling language?01:28
ecc2guser mode linux... a fake VM01:29
* DocScrutinizer05 just wondered how to describe a forkbomb in UML01:29
LjLDocScrutinizer05: heh i was reading an IRC log from this channel with you and kerio just now, where someone had a 2.7V battery that didn't "flatbatrecover"01:32
DocScrutinizer05prolly defect01:33
LjLDocScrutinizer05: "Total Cycle Count since last full reset" is indeed 0, i don't know if the fact i factory reset the phone also influences that01:33
DocScrutinizer05no, doesn't01:33
LjLit's very possible the guy who sold it to me hadn't used it in quite some time, and wisely kept the battery disconnected, anyway01:33
LjLalthough he didn't seem a very "wise" guy considering he had left his ebay login data on the MicroB history :rollseyes:01:34
DocScrutinizer05   0x76:        45  ILMD Initial Last Measured Discharge High Byte     914  µVh (1)  R/W01:35
DocScrutinizer05                    *0x100 * 3.57 / 20 =  2062 mAh fabcoded cell capacity01:35
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kerioi have the fancy .py script if you want01:46
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DocScrutinizer05oooh, that should live on cloud-7, next to the others01:58
DocScrutinizer05damn, there's also been a perl script or sth01:59
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: I think your python lib is missing02:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: please also suggest where it should go to. /usr/lib/python/ ?02:03
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NeutrinoPowerI would buy it if this has OLEDs04:03
DocScrutinizer05hey I got a Openmoko GTA03 development protoboard04:03
GI_Jackif I remember correctly the only one with fairly intresting hardware specs was the GTA0404:03
DocScrutinizer05offers solicited04:04
GI_JackDocScrutinizer05, $5 and a pack of chewing gum04:04
DocScrutinizer05there never been a openmoko gta0404:05
DocScrutinizer05only plans04:06
GI_Jackwell golden delicious04:06
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DocScrutinizer05*shrug* do yu think I dunno this page :-)04:07
NeutrinoPower this with Mirasol-Display would be awesome too04:07
DocScrutinizer05I even got a gta0404:08
DocScrutinizer05but that's not sth particularly exciting, that you could ask 4000$ for04:08
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Luke-JrW: GPG error: ./ Release: The following signatures were invalid: KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 1349249546 KEYEXPIRED 134924954607:15
Luke-Jris there a fix for this yet? <.<07:16
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drathirLuke-Jr: i think no, because if good remember keys not going to be updated, but who knows maybe in future? anway to confirmation of that you need wait to someone else...07:46
Luke-Jrbah, finally got x11vnc compiled for N900 and now the screensaver thing is killing me07:52
Luke-Jrany way to turn on the display?07:52
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Luke-Jrseems xset doesn't help07:58
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drathirLuke-Jr: maybe kill xscreensaver?08:15
Luke-Jrno such app runnign08:17
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: my lib is also the script11:50
keriobecause python is cool11:51
DocScrutinizer05I know11:51
kerioit should go in the path i guess11:51
DocScrutinizer05then toolnpatches11:52
kerioor you'd have to launch it with `python -m bq27k`11:52
kerioif it was in python's sys.path11:52
keriohold on, i'll put the latest somewhere11:54
kerioit won't work without pali's bq27k module though11:55
keriobut you can just change Bq27kAuto to spam i2c-get11:55
kerioDocScrutinizer05: wgetted?11:56
kerioi should make a /~kerio/ directory in that web server11:57
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DocScrutinizer05 4 (  0.991 ms (  5.887 ms  5.882 ms12:04
DocScrutinizer05 5 (  5.177 ms (  5.170 ms  5.154 ms12:04
DocScrutinizer05 6 (  0.893 ms  0.790 ms  0.882 ms12:04
keriodat hetzner12:04
DocScrutinizer0515.416      --.-K/s   in 0s12:05
keriook, is now my web space12:05
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: let's test the internal throughput!12:10
DocScrutinizer05go ahead12:10
keriosend whatever to 3133712:10
kerionc 31337 < /dev/zero12:11
keriowe won't know how fast it goes12:11
keriomeh, wget something maybe12:11
DocScrutinizer05kerio: wget some shit from
DocScrutinizer05wiki.xml is 700MB12:12
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kerioi feel underwhelmed12:15
DocScrutinizer05ohwell, it's a VM12:17
DocScrutinizer05get sth from skeiron ;-)12:17
keriois it also hetzner?12:17
DocScrutinizer05but other caliber12:18
kerioi wonder if my local connection is a bottleneck12:18
keriobecause wget tries to write the progressbar12:18
WizzupI think my n900 front led died12:19
WizzupIt doesn't notify me anymore, and it also doesn't light when charging12:19
keriothat's more like it12:19
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Wizzup(and notifications etc are turned on)12:19
kerioWizzup: does it turn on when turning the n900 on?12:20
Wizzupand let me check12:20
DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: removed battery?12:20
Wizzupkerio: no12:20
Wizzupdoes not turn on12:20
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: just did before turning it on again12:20
DocScrutinizer05too bad12:20
keriosigns point to hw defect :c12:20
Wizzupoh well12:21
Wizzupno biggie..12:21
kerioDocScrutinizer05: 70MB/s is seriously fast12:22
kerioi can do about 20MB/s from my local nas to my computer in my lan :s12:22
kerioall gbit12:22
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DocScrutinizer05cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/selftest12:23
DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: ^^^12:25
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: no such file12:27
Wizzup(though the directory exists)12:27
DocScrutinizer05so I gather your kbd backlight is dead too12:28
WizzupI think so12:28
keriothat's more of a problem12:29
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# lsmod |grep 552312:31
DocScrutinizer05leds_lp5523             9984  012:31
DocScrutinizer05led_class               2948  2 leds_twl4030_vibra,leds_lp552312:32
DocScrutinizer05modinfo leds_lp552312:32
DocScrutinizer05modprobe -r leds_lp5523; modprobe leds_lp552312:33
DocScrutinizer05tail /var/log/syslog12:33
kerioIRC is eating through my battery12:36
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DocScrutinizer05quassel maybe12:37
kerioi swear12:37
DocScrutinizer05or 3G12:37
keriowell yeah12:37
DocScrutinizer05reminds me that I still have a long pending tedious annoying debugging task12:39
DocScrutinizer05find out about how xchat suddenly diesn't detect keepalive-timeouts after roaming12:40
DocScrutinizer05planned to use tshark for that12:40
DocScrutinizer05but maybe... I just should temporarily discard ZNC12:41
DocScrutinizer05I swear I dunno any other reason but ZNC update to 1.x.y12:41
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: the lsmod, is that related to my led problem?12:41
DocScrutinizer05and there's evidently no single time value in .xchat2/* that could explain those 2h delay12:42
DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: sure12:42
DocScrutinizer05as well as the other 3 commands12:42
DocScrutinizer05for your reference12:43
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid your LP5523 is fried12:44
DocScrutinizer05though I heard about similar hickups that were sw-related12:45
DocScrutinizer05you can agan remove battery, then push power button when battery out12:45
DocScrutinizer05short the outer two battery contact blades of N900 with a penny12:46
DocScrutinizer05wait a minute12:46
DocScrutinizer05then insert battery, push powerbutton and see if white breathing light shortly ramps up. do NOT power up device, i.e. releae button after 1s12:47
DocScrutinizer05plug in fastcharger and see if it gives a ultrashort dim red flashing12:48
DocScrutinizer05actually amber but it looks redish12:48
DocScrutinizer05either on plug in or on removal of charger plug12:48
DocScrutinizer05this is hw independent of LP552312:49
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: ok, give me a few minutes12:51
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: heh. I don't seem to have syslog (in /var/log)12:52
DocScrutinizer05use dmesg12:53
DocScrutinizer05or rather apt-get install sysklog12:53
Wizzupyeah the ls -l doesn't show the leds @ my machine12:53
DocScrutinizer05NB lp5523 is connected directly to battery. no sw reboot will reset it12:54
DocScrutinizer05not teliably12:54
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: wow...12:55
DocScrutinizer05only way to reset: remove battery and make sure there's no more residual voltage left in buffer capacitors. Thus: push power button when battery out, short battery contacts of N90012:55
WizzupI took out the battery12:55
Wizzupstarted it12:55
Wizzupput battery back in12:55
Wizzupboom, led12:55
WizzupLet's hope it lasts12:56
Wizzupkeyboard backlight12:56
* Wizzup hugs DocScrutinizer05 12:56
Wizzupah, lost the time & date again ofc ;-)12:56
DocScrutinizer05well, that's kind of been the purpose of this procedure ;-)12:57
Wizzupat some point I got so fast at switching batteries (other n900 where I have to replace usb) that I could replace them without losing power12:57
Wizzuptg showed me the trick12:58
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DocScrutinizer05the slide-it-under "trick"12:58
DocScrutinizer05whoever tg12:58
DocScrutinizer05ooh, tg is a user in here13:00
DocScrutinizer05if you're interested to do a little soldering fancy - I have a ~20 ~bupbat here13:01
infobotmethinks bupbat is use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or, or
DocScrutinizer05shipping worldwide for a 3EUR donation to maemo per cell13:02
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WizzupDocScrutinizer05: okay, I'll think about it13:08
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WizzupI have so much other stuff on my mind right now -- I'll think about this later13:08
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hi13:18
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: hi13:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: finally I'm back, I hope later today and tomorrow to have free time to start working on the autobuilder issues13:19
freemangordon(assuming I become the maintainer :))13:19
DocScrutinizer05consider it done, master13:20
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ok, I'll ping you some 3-5 hours from now13:20
WizzupI'm trying to get rip the from the n900 ..13:22
Wizzupto get it to work on my armv7 odroid gnu/linux desktop13:22
WizzupHas a few dependencies on hildon libs, but maybe I'll just copy them over and see if everything breaks...13:23
DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: I think there been a generic flashplayer lib directly from those guys errr adobe? compiled for ARM/OMAP13:26
Wizzupthere is?13:26
DocScrutinizer05yeah, flash1013:26
Wizzupah, let me see if I can find it13:27
DocScrutinizer05I never bothered about it since it reportedly didn't work great with N900, but that's no surprise since it not been meant for n900 specifically. rather for beagleboard or whatever13:27
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: ah, odroid has four cores though13:29
Wizzupso it should be okay13:29
Wizzupodroid-u2 specifically13:29
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: I can't find the dropbox link13:31
DocScrutinizer05should be somewhere on tmo13:31
Wizzuphere we go13:32
DocScrutinizer05** PROBLEM Service Alert: is CRITICAL **13:36
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Hurrianohai DocScrutinizer05.13:42
Hurrianwelp, N900's eMMC is dead.13:42
Hurrianno, it's not a solder fault, the chip is simply dead.13:43
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DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: :-/14:27
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: we once talked somebody thru total swap between eMMC and uSD14:28
DocScrutinizer05wasn't exactly simple to find out how to accomplish it, but finally it worked iirc14:29
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: however, you actually could get repair for that. the eMMC chip is not hard to source, and reflow for that particular chip seems feasible14:31
DocScrutinizer05though the chip body is huge, it has relatively small ball-count14:32
* DocScrutinizer05 only wishes he could get proper SnPbCuAg solder paste14:33
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kerioWizzup: hold on, you had some weird problem and you didn't try to powercycle?14:50
Wizzupwhat can I say, I'm a software guy, I don't expect restarts to ``make it work''14:51
Wizzup(at least for everything I write)14:51
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keriostate machines be crazy14:53
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HurrianDocScrutinizer05: using uSD as eMMC? yep, done that15:09
DocScrutinizer05kerio: Wizzup: this particular one is NOT fixable with a silly powercycle15:10
DocScrutinizer05you need to make sure... MEH wrote that above15:10
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DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-27 11:54:31] <DocScrutinizer05> NB lp5523 is connected directly to battery. no sw reboot will reset it - not reliably.  only way to reset: remove battery and make sure there's no more residual voltage left in buffer capacitors. Thus: push power button when battery out, short battery contacts of N90015:20
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DocScrutinizer05lp5523 has a complete little cpu inside15:21
DocScrutinizer05and no nRESET input driven from APE/SoC15:22
DocScrutinizer05can it lock up? dman sure it can!15:22
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LjLwhat is this, Flash lockups aren't fixed unless you short the battery contacts? O.o why do backlogs always seem to make much much less sense than reading conversations while they happen :P15:25
DocScrutinizer05flash lockups?15:27
DocScrutinizer05they make less sense since you don't get the point15:28
DocScrutinizer05it been about lp5523, not about flash15:28
DocScrutinizer05on a sidenote, similar problem might occur with lis302 accelerometer15:32
DocScrutinizer05though there a proper shutdown and then reboot should usually fix it15:32
DocScrutinizer05(not connected to battery but to a switched Vsys)15:33
DocScrutinizer05a simple reboot (without powering down the system for a few seconds) might not suffice to reset lis302 and thus fix decalibration15:34
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LjLDocScrutinizer05: i realize didn't get the point, i was just saying that's what happens when you (well, i at least) read backlogs as opposed to following a realtime conversation, things get mixed up :P15:54
LjLah so lp5523 is the LED controller15:57
LjLfunny that it would be so separate from the rest of the phone15:58
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LjLalright time to check whether the N900's battery has survived the night16:29
LjLseems it has. qbatterywidget said 60% when i went to bed, 49% now. this seems much better than the other day, when i had battery-eye installed16:30
LjLi still have BatteryGraph installed though16:30
keriohm, is pali already on vacation?16:30
keriobecause that would mean that my hald-addon-bme is going to stay fucked up until he's back ._.16:30
LjLDocScrutinizer05, can you tell me which powertop i should install? apparently there's a bunch of versions scattered around16:30
LjLkerio: is that the "replacement BME" in Mer?16:31
DocScrutinizer05LjL: I'm not aware of the multiple versions. Please point me to them16:32
kerioLjL: i don't think so16:32
keriobut maybe?16:32
LjLDocScrutinizer05: moment, i had the relevant pages open yesterday16:32
DocScrutinizer05no, mer still using some proprietary nokia hack done for stskeeps to keep original bme, afaik16:32
DocScrutinizer05stskeeps been *very* much chicken about using or similar approach16:33
LjLDocScrutinizer05: has a "free" and a "non-free" thing listed, plus there's this thread with scattered ZIPs and the like
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if they differ at all16:34
DocScrutinizer05never heard anybody complaining about unusual behaviour of "his version"16:34
DocScrutinizer05anyway mine spews out "Powertop 1.13.3" on start16:35
infobotrumour has it, pkg is
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# powertop --help all16:36
DocScrutinizer05Powertop 1.13.316:36
* kerio is saddened by the lack of libicd-network-pan16:36
LjLDocScrutinizer05: so probably the one in PR1.0... not sure if this is correct, but i got the impression powertop was included in PR1.0 but then removed by default later16:37
DocScrutinizer05possibly, yes16:37
DocScrutinizer05sounds about right16:38
* kerio loves his 1574mAh battery16:40
kerioit's a lot of battery!16:40
LjLkerio: what battery is that?16:41
kerioan orange one16:41
keriowithout a name16:41
kerioscarily good you mean16:42
kerioit was on aliexpress.com16:42
keriovi___ recommended it16:42
LjLno i mean scary, but i'm paranoid so you might want to ignore my opinion16:42
Lava_Croft1555mAh here16:42
keriohighfive o/16:42
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kerioit was sold as a 1700mAh battery16:43
keriobut i knew it was around 160016:43
Lava_Croftsold as 150016:43
Lava_Croft2 calibrations later it said 155516:43
keriocalibrated at?16:44
Lava_Croftusing the scripts from tmo16:44
RaimuHilarious things, these el cheapo batteries.16:44
kerioyeah but which power draw?16:44
Lava_Croftthe recommended16:44
Lava_Crofti dont have the numbers anymore16:44
keriobacklight at 5?16:44
Lava_Croftalways on16:45
Lava_Croftit had no sim inserted16:45
Lava_Croftbut wifi was on16:45
Lava_Croftthe calibs differed about 2mah from each other:)16:45
keriogoddammit this hald-addon-bme is annoyhin16:46
keriobecause my battery stays at 100% for a quarter of the capacity16:46
kerioaccording to the battery applet16:46
RaimuIt is over nine thousand.16:47
kerioRaimu: that's like a 25% mistake16:48
keriothat's a pretty big deal16:48
RaimuI wish the old scriprs worked on bmerep, I could just drop in a desktop widget that updates on press16:53
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keriopython -c 'print __import__("bq27k").Bq27kAuto().CSOC'16:58
kerioor something similar16:58
keriopython -c 'import bq27k; print "%s%%" % bq27k.Bq27kAuto().CSOC'16:59
kerioor make a script16:59
RaimuThis'll do, thanks!17:00
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kerioor, hell17:00
keriomuch easier17:00
keriocat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/capacity17:01
keriowithout being wastefuk17:01
kerioi'm not sure if you can make it follow changes to a file easily17:01
keriobut sysnodes should support inotify17:02
RaimuUh, I didn't even know those readings can be viewed from there17:04
Raimu2hat a neophyte17:04
LjLis the reason why there's a different channel for harmattan technical or political?17:06
RaimuDifferent topics17:11
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LjLwell but isn't Harmattan technically a version of Maemo?17:18
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Lava_Croftbut they differ enough to warrant different channels17:26
Lava_Croftlest people get too confused17:26
psycho_oreosAsking that is almost like asking whether should harmattan be part of, meego or maemo. :p. Meego devs wouldn't claim harmattan as an actual meego project (nokia called it a "meego instance"), Maemo.. well.. the device and ecosystem is remarkably different even though to an extent a fair proportion of harmattan was based on maemo.17:30
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psycho_oreosThe split between #harmattan and #maemo originally existed because of selected few devs got their hands on N950. At that time they thouoght it would be cool to form their own channel for the "elite" :p17:32
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eddybwhere is the config for osso-xterm stored?17:35
eddybI did something stupid (increased the scrollback to infinite amounts) and now I only have ssh access17:35
eddybSicelo: thanks17:36
eddybgconftool-2 -g /apps/osso/xterm/scrollback17:37
RaimuInfinite Scrolling Mode ;)17:37
* psycho_oreos wonders if osso-xterm would die due to malloc error with that huge scrollback buffer.17:39
LjLpsycho_oreos: so, political :P i wish i had applied for a free N950 as a developer when that was possible, but i felt i wouldn't be able to develop much for it so i didn't even try... not so much to be part of any "elite" but, hey, it looks like an interesting phone17:39
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psycho_oreosLjL, it was political back then, they started getting lax about it all afterwards and now (amongst other similar channels) are serving as a living relic. Also you aren't the only one to miss out on N950.17:41
LjLi'm sure i'm not17:41
LjLthere's the N9 but honestly, i don't care much for keyboardless phones17:42
LjLmy other phone aside from the N900 (which i'm not sure whether i will use as my main phone yet) is a Motorola Milestone, specced very similar to the N900 but running Android17:43
psycho_oreosI loathed the design of n9, I still hate it even though nokia no longer cares about their little niche community they've brought up.17:43
psycho_oreosI came across an interesting motorola device recently (motorola defy), it ran android froyo and had this somewhat annoying thing known as motoblur.17:44
LjLi think my Milestone's Android was relatively vanilla without Motoblur, but not sure since i've been using a CM-based ROM on it for ages now17:46
LjLi wish my carrier offered the ability to have two SIMs on the same number so i wouldn't have to decide whether to use the N900 or the Milestone as main :P17:46
psycho_oreosThat's one good way to get rid of the annoying motoblur.17:46
eddybpsycho_oreos: the first time I changed that, the phone rebooted or something17:47
eddybpsycho_oreos: xterm doesn't start at all with that setting :(17:47
Sicelowhat setting?17:48
psycho_oreosUltimately it boils down to personal taste, to me N900 is incomparable to literally any other devices (apart from N950 but only just).17:48
eddybthe ridiculously large scrollback buffer17:48
LjLdo people typically have Extras-devel enabled these days given Extras doesn't seem *very* alive, or is it still "the odd package when really needed"?17:48
* psycho_oreos still has extras-devel enabled, not through HAM though.17:49
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psycho_oreoseddyb, yeah sounds almost like issues with malloc and probably something to do with heap overflow.17:49
LjLpsycho_oreos: well, i'm currently questioning my own taste... both Android and Maemo have their good points i think, Maemo gives a Linuxy fuzzy feeling but lacks some smartphone-oriented things Android has, as far as i can see - and then there's the hardware itself, the N900 looks a bit flimsy, being all plastic and with a resistive screen i think i've already scratched by just looking at it. the Milestone is mostly metal17:50
LjLah and so far there seems to be a compelling argument about GPS navigation on Android for me, although i haven't really investigated what's available for the N900 too well17:51
RaimuLjL: On n900 you can install a java-running Google Maps with some trickery, it's the best GPS map I have on the platform.17:52
Sicelolol LjL .. what's plasticky between N900 & any samsung?17:52
LjLSicelo: i don't know, but i don't have a Samsung17:53
psycho_oreosLjL, undoubtably N900 is not really comparable in phone capabilities. Many people including myself has said the same thing time and time after time. N900 is not a phone, its an internet tablet with phone functionality. N900 maybe frail but it still has some of the coolest things such as direct access to the raw hardware itself. Things like fcam taking advantage of raw access to camera module, wl1251 (ported from compat-wireless) allows one to do wi17:53
psycho_oreosreless pentesting and fmtxd that can be modded to broadcast on other channels.17:53
Siceloanyway, as you said: taste17:54
keriofor navigation, there's modrana17:55
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psycho_oreosIt always boils down to taste :)17:55
keriofor maps, there's... idk17:55
LjLpsycho_oreos: i was just going to investigate the FM tx, it doesn't seem to work at all here so far, but i tried it briefly17:55
LjLkerio: i'm more interested in navigation than plain maps, i really need that because my sense of orientation is mostly... completely lacking :( Android has some really nice programs, although none of the open source ones are particularly nice so it's either Google Maps, Waze or commercial offerings like Sygic17:56
LjLthere's an open source one that might not be too bad on faster phones, but on my Milestone it's just unusable17:56
psycho_oreosLjL, that sort of reminds me to test and see if the patched fmtxd that I had from awhile ago still works. Alas I have too many things I need to attend to with my N900(s).17:57
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LjLpsycho_oreos: weird, i'd have expected you to be on the rtlsdr channel :P18:05
DocScrutinizer05>>few devs got their hands on N950. At that time they thouoght it would be cool to form their own channel for the "elite" :p<< not at all. It just got annoying to answer questions assuming they are targeted at maemo5 and then to hear "but that doesn't work" and after long discussion you find out the asker has a harmattan device where the maemo5 solution doesn't apply18:07
psycho_oreosLjL, rtlsdr?18:08
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer05, heh I do recall one of the lucky devs (at the time) did mention about #harmattan being the cool channel to hang out for those lucky devs.18:09
psycho_oreosThough yeah, that's really old historical stuff now :D18:09
DocScrutinizer05after all *I* created that channel ;-P18:10
LjLpsycho_oreos: you might be interested in it if you're interested in radio. it's the informal name for a USB DVB-T TV stick, which could be obtained for cheap (although there might be a shortage now), which driver develoopers found out can actually be used as a software-defined radio receiver for between 60 and ~2000MHz with a 2Mbps bandwidth18:10
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LjLDocScrutinizer05: ha18:10
DocScrutinizer05so believe me, I still recall why I did18:10
* psycho_oreos muses the idea of concluding N900 vs <insert_almost_any_random_new_device_or_phone_here> as a willing but a toothless warrior. Then proceeds chuckling about the idea.18:11
DocScrutinizer05it been first of all a consideration about channel S/N18:11
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer05, lol not doubting you in the first place, just thought it was a little cool to use N950 to rub it in old people's wounds (those who still don't have N950) lol.18:12
psycho_oreosLjL, Ahh, I'm almost a complete noob when it comes to that stuff lol. Stuff even with wireless LAN is starting to throw me off now with things like HT and 802.11ac.18:12
LjLpsycho_oreos: oh, i'm pretty clueless too, but for €20 or whatever it was i spent, it was worth looking at a very sizeable portion the radio spectrum. i just wish it did shortwave, so i could receive ham radio18:13
LjLhey, since the N900 has a light sensor, how come i don't see the brightness change depending on its reading?18:15
LjLthe display brightness that is18:15
psycho_oreosLjL, that sort of reminds me of a person whom hacked his atheros wifi to (I think) transreceive in frequencies not defined by either 802.11a or 802.11b. It was something within 6GHz or something band, though ultimately he ended up frying his pre-amp as a result.18:16
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LjLpsycho_oreos: i wouldn't dare do something like that, as i don't look forward to either frying my equipment, or have the police knock at my door for illegal transmissions ;) this stick is just a receiver though, and it's a simple matter of software to use it as an SDR18:17
psycho_oreosTo me I think it does, when there's too much light after the screen went from blank screen to showing whatever you left things running (visible, in foreground) in about 2-4 seconds.18:18
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psycho_oreosLjL, haha true but nonetheless its still interesting to experiment though and something also to present to events like defcon. *Is now reminded of that story about MITM 2G attack at defcon awhile ago*18:19
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LjLpsycho_oreos: this rtlsdr can be used with some software to receive and decode GSM, apparently, and now there's some LTE thing too :P18:20
psycho_oreosI'm not an expert on what is being used outside the standard (allowed) fmtxd frequencies, I was told that they may interfere with digital TV signals.18:20
LjLit might end up on the VHF TV range, not sure18:21
LjLstill the transmitter is very low power, so18:21
psycho_oreosLjL, haha interesting. I do recall that MITM attack equipment would have set one back ~$1,000.18:22
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psycho_oreosThough doesn't mean you can't do some nasty hacks to make that low power output into concentrated power to one area ;)18:22
psycho_oreosThere was a perfect movie about that idea, wargames 2: the dead code.18:24
LjLwut, there is a version of Waze in Extras-devel18:24
LjLhey while we're being offtopic, isn't even entirely offtopic as there is my N810 too :P18:30
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keriopsycho_oreos: fmtxd from cssu is the same fmtxd from jacekowski18:46
kerio(add more spelling)18:46
keriocssu-devel, that is18:46
kerioi don't know when or if it'll be pushed to cssu-testing18:46
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LjLoh as to CSSU, i haven't installed that yet, anything important i ought to know before i do? also, should i really back up, or can i get a pristine Maemo flash file in the worst case?19:08
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psycho_oreoskerio, yeah I would expect it to be only imported from what was jacekowski's version. I never tried to test out his module thoroughly anyway :).19:22
psycho_oreosThere's a thing known as backupmenu. It is probably the best thing to have.19:22
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psycho_oreosActually misread, yes well backup in either cases. :)19:23
psycho_oreosCSSU stable shouldn't have too much issues, but if you're running CSSU testing (which is what I have here), you may run into issues19:23
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Sc0rpiusbuilder is broken again :(19:50
kerioohai Sc0rpius19:50
Sc0rpiusbuilder says19:50
Sc0rpiusFailed to fetch http://stage/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libx/libx11/libx11-data_1.1.99.6+0m5+withxcb_all.deb  Size mismatch19:50
Sc0rpiushi there19:50
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keriowhy the hell are you pushing system packages to extras-devel?19:55
Sc0rpiusI'm not19:55
Sc0rpiusthis is the log:19:55
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kerioDocScrutinizer05 and techstaff: *poke*19:56
freemangordonhear, hear19:56
Sc0rpiusthe title editing bug in TMO is still there, it really pisses me off19:57
Sc0rpiusis there anybody here who is a moderator or something in TMO?19:57
freemangordonI guess yes19:58
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: many thanks but I can't follow up on that right now19:58
freemangordonchem|st, thedead1440_,... ummm... who else19:58
Sc0rpiusit's ok19:58
DocScrutinizer05please find somebody else to take care, or open a ticket in bugs.m.o19:58
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: also mixing up two bug reports for sure doesn't help20:00
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: re  Failed to fetch http://stage/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libx/libx11/libx11-data_1.1.99.6+0m5+withxcb_all.deb, that package is supposed to have been deleted, so builder resp your package shouldn't depend on it20:02
DocScrutinizer05if it doesn't then I dunno why builder tries to fetch it20:02
* Sc0rpius checks his control file20:02
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: because it is a system package20:02
DocScrutinizer05it might still be in repo, then we have a problem with that fucking package20:02
freemangordonand seems we have that version cached20:03
freemangordonbut the package is missing, thus the error20:03
Sc0rpiusBuild-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), libqt4-dev, libqtm-dev, mce-dev, hildon-input-method-framework-dev, libx11-dev, libgtk2.0-dev, libosso-dev, libosso-abook-dev, libebook-dev, libhildondesktop1-dev20:03
DocScrutinizer05since I deleted/nuked that crap20:03
freemangordonDid you rebuild Packages.gz?20:04
DocScrutinizer05who? ME??20:04
kerionot me!20:04
freemangordon<DocScrutinizer05> since I deleted/nuked that crap20:04
DocScrutinizer05so? there's a button in midgard to do that20:04
freemangordonsure, but do we have the old version now?20:05
DocScrutinizer05NFC what autobuilder/repo-management does20:05
keriothe old version should be from nokia20:05
DocScrutinizer05aiui there's no version whatsoever supposed to be in extras20:05
DocScrutinizer05somebody "accidentally" uploaded that package to autobuilder20:06
freemangordonyes, I know20:06
keriopeople are making doc angry :(20:06
Sc0rpiusactually the bug that any changes editing the title of a thread are ignored is worse than the builder bug :P20:07
freemangordonthere was a check in the autobuiled WEB iface if you try to upload a system package20:07
freemangordonit seems gone :(20:07
Sc0rpiussomebody uploaded a system package?20:07
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: thanks. Then I happily forget about both20:07
kerioit happens20:07
Sc0rpiusJesus Christ20:07
freemangordonkerum: it is not supposed to happen20:08
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keriofreemangordon: last-spoke order is better than alphabetical, for IRC tab-completion20:08
* kerio uploads the whole of cssu-testing+thumb to extras-devel20:08
freemangordonkerio: my IRC client is FUBAR20:09
freemangordonit is written in JAVA20:09
* DocScrutinizer05 heads out, detecting his pissed mood20:09
* DocScrutinizer05 just remarks that eventually techstaff won't regard any bug reports anymore that have no ticket on b.m.o20:10
DocScrutinizer05*I* get flames for not citing down the list of problems from top of my head >:-(20:11
DocScrutinizer05it's not like your 2 bugs are the only ones on such list. ask freemangordon20:12
DocScrutinizer05on a less anry note: most likely packages.gz got NOT rebuilt, since autobuilder (usually) doesn't promote to repo automatically. Ask merlin199120:15
LjLDocScrutinizer05, i have done the battery calibration as you told me and now my battery is at 2.5 volts and i think it's your fault, i even ran the calibration script with the kernel overclocked to 1.6GHz to ensure it would be responsive20:17
LjL(just in case you were getting less angry)20:17
freemangordon"kernel overclocked to 1.6GHz"20:17
LjLi wasn't being entirely serious20:17
freemangordonoh, ok20:18
DocScrutinizer05not ok20:18
thedead1440Sc0rpius: you mean the thread-editing bug as in threads over a year old can't have their titles changed by the OP and only mods can change them?20:18
DocScrutinizer05LjL: your fault, don't listen to fools trolling you20:18
thedead1440if so then report to chem|st as he is the administrator of tmo and the previous admin i.e. Reggie said this "feature" removal required council removal20:18
kerioif it's really at 2.5V, your battery isn't a battery anymore, to be honest20:19
LjLof course it's not really at 2.5V though :P20:19
DocScrutinizer05tbh a battery cannot get probed at 2.5V, since battery voltage == PMU input voltage, and system impossibly can run at 2.5V20:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: multimeters can run at 2.5V20:20
Sc0rpiusthedead1440, is that so?20:20
thedead1440Sc0rpius: what do you mean?20:20
Sc0rpiusif the thread is older than a year I can't edit the title?¿20:20
thedead1440Sc0rpius: yes!20:20
DocScrutinizer05find somebody else to troll20:20
Sc0rpiusI'm not making a new thread :(20:20
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: because20:21
DocScrutinizer05get over it20:21
Sc0rpiuswell then I need a mod to modify the thread title to something a little more standard20:21
Sc0rpiusthat is, deleting the version number20:21
Sc0rpiuswho is a mod here?20:21
DocScrutinizer05dafaq! editing subject of ancient threads20:21
thedead1440Sc0rpius: the easiest way is to use the "report this!" button on your OP and to ask for thread to be changed20:22
thedead1440its bloody easy to do so20:22
Sc0rpiusok thanks20:22
DocScrutinizer05dafaq 2.5V20:22
thedead1440Sc0rpius: reggie's reply:
* kerio ponders about the usefulness of threads with 300+ pages20:23
thedead1440kerio: what's the alternative? closing the thread every X pages?20:23
DocScrutinizer05LjL: GET RECENT KP, DO **NOT** unblacklist bq27200 module20:23
Sc0rpiusI see20:24
DocScrutinizer05it's known to cause massive trouble when stopping and restarting bme20:24
Sc0rpiusthat rule is absurd imho20:24
thedead1440things like yappari, wazapp, N9QT attract many users + have many version changes hence the vast amount of pages20:24
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: than go and discuss it with those who invented that rule20:24
Sc0rpiusyeah I'm almost reaching 400 pages in the Yappari thread :(20:24
Sc0rpiusand actually it's sad people asking things that were discussed before.  I know nobody is gonna read those 400 pages20:25
Sc0rpiusmaybe a new thread is better... dunno...20:25
DocScrutinizer05or maybe a wiki page, eh?20:26
freemangordonwait, yappari thread has 2 times more pages than cssu-thumb thread? OMG, the world is going nuts :D20:26
DocScrutinizer05and one new thread per version20:26
thedead1440freemangordon: haha see the wazapp thread too for reference :)20:26
DocScrutinizer05cya peeps, I have some really imprtant stuff to do20:27
thedead1440bye doc20:27
freemangordonthough... this could be related to the fact there is no need to report much on cssu-thumb thread :P20:27
freemangordonbye doc20:27
thedead1440freemangordon: indeed; the bulk of yappari and wazapp posts are usually about registration issues due to the frequent changes in protocol20:28
Sc0rpiusfreemangordon, don't feel bad.  It doesn't mean Yappari is more popular.  It just have dumber users asking the same questions over and over20:28
freemangordonSc0rpius: I know, I am just kidding (in cas it is not clear)20:29
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LjLDocScrutinizer05: i haven't really even run the calibration thing, i was just being facetious and didn't mean to make the atmosphere even chillier. (when i do run a calibration though, does the above mean i shouldn't run it on a stock PR1.3?)20:33
Sc0rpiusfreemangordon, I enabled CSSU (testing) to fix the Gmail bug but it seems a newer version of CSSU thumb has been released since20:33
Sc0rpiusdo I have to disable CSSU (Testing) again?20:33
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Sc0rpiusor can both repositories live at the same time (testing) and (thumb) ?20:34
freemangordonSc0rpius: they MUST live at the same time20:34
freemangordon-thumb is based on -testing20:34
freemangordonnot all of the packages in -testing are in -thumb, upstart for example20:34
freemangordonso you need both repos20:34
kerionothing bad will happen if you disable -testing20:37
kerionothing good either, but still20:38
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.20:38
freemangordonkerio: the bad thing that will happen is that you won;t be able to update to latest -thumb20:38
freemangordonso you either disable both or enable both20:38
keriocssu-thumb sucks anyway :P20:39
keriothere's still no x11 compiled with gcc4.7-linaro!20:39
freemangordonoh, I read rocks  :P20:39
kerioi think20:39
DocScrutinizer05I attrbute that to the european heatwave we all suffer from today20:39
freemangordonthere is no20:39
keriothere's still no x11 compiled with gcc4.7-linaro, then!20:40
freemangordonand that is why cssu-thumb sucks20:40
freemangordonI got it20:40
keriothere's pulseaudio!20:40
freemangordonsince April20:40
keriono i mean in general20:41
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* kerio ponders about a pulseaudio compatibility layer for alsa20:41
kerio...i guess that that would be pulseaudio20:42
kerio!seen Pali20:46
kerio~seen Pali20:47
infobotpali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 2h 32m 2s ago, saying: 'NSA for sure'.20:47
Lava_Crofthe was never heard from again20:49
keriomaybe the NSA analysts can fix hald-addon-bme in his stead20:49
freemangordonPali said he'll be offline for a week20:50
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drathirkerio: yea they fix that the phone will going behind you...21:09
drathiri mean alone will follow you ^^21:10
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* DocScrutinizer05 is only followed by his sofa. And only after drinking one bottle of potato vodka21:11
drathirgood alternative to builitin mail will be to fix mutt...21:11
drathirDocScrutinizer05: potato vodka? O.o21:12
drathirhow this taste? i never hear about that...21:12
DocScrutinizer05the cheapest crap of vodka is made from potatos21:12
drathiri mean hear that is possible to make it by myself in home, but never hear and see in shop...21:13
drathirwith direct writed info that vodka is made from potatos...21:14
DocScrutinizer05on THAT type of vodka nobody looks for any writing what it's made from. Since there isn't any either21:16
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Sc0rpiuswell I upgraded to CSSU thumb 8.2 I guess21:30
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drathirSc0rpius: gz22:23
DocScrutinizer05Welcome our new autobuilder maintainer freemangordon!22:23
drathirwelcome ofc...22:23
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fraflwelcome and sorry for the trouble22:50
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NeutrinoPowerwhat can "NOLO X-Loader", is somewhere a manual?23:13
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Sc0rpiusso autbuilder is fixed?23:21
DocScrutinizer05NeutrinoPower: NOLO is 2nd stage bootloader, Nokia's flavor of u-Boot. X-Loader is 1st stage bootloader. No there's no manual for NOLO (except what you get for flasher-3.5 and the "hold U key" instruction). There's some details about how X_Loader works, on
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: honestly, what do you mean?23:23
Sc0rpiusthe libx11-data bug23:24
DocScrutinizer05how's that a bug?23:24
Sc0rpiusautobuilder can't find a suitable libx11-data package23:25
DocScrutinizer05too bad23:26
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kerioNeutrinoPower: xloader/nolo loads something23:47
keriothat is all that's given to know23:47
kerioif something is uboot, you can do whatever you want23:48
NeutrinoPowercan we set some kernel-boot-parameter with nolo?23:48
kerioit's at least flexible enough to load rescueOS with the correct cmdline23:49
infobotwell, rescue-os is
kerioyes it is, infobot23:53
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