IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-07-21

ecc2g	i'm not familiar with the recovery options on the n900 yet, but ideally you unmount that partition, fsck it and see if it will fix it. But I'm not sure how to do that on the n900...	00:00
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FIQ\|n900	I've had issues with MyDocs corruption earlier and managed to fix it with some fscking and removal of corrupt stuff	00:01
FIQ\|n900	but this is the /home partition...	00:01
ecc2g	yeah, that's why it's a bit tricky...	00:01
FIQ\|n900	and not as trivial to just umount and fsck	00:01
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ecc2g	there was this recovery program...	00:01
FIQ\|n900	doesn't ext3 have journaling though? i.e. once you do manage to get fsck running, it should solve problems far better than fat can do	00:03
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FIQ\|n900	hmm	00:03
FIQ\|n900	I have backupmenu installed	00:03
FIQ\|n900	perhaps the recovery terminal within it can help	00:03
FIQ\|n900	but I never managed to get that thing usable	00:03
FIQ\|n900	because it kept giving me nothing but a black screen	00:04
DrCode	hi all	00:04
FIQ\|n900	hi	00:04
DrCode	I got forbiden in cute youtube when I try to download	00:06
DrCode	strang	00:06
DrCode	strang	00:06
DrCode	sorry , any idea?	00:07
qwazix	probably youtube changed something	00:07
qwazix	does vimeo work?	00:08
DrCode	I didnt check yet	00:12
DrCode	I am using cssu	00:12
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qwazix	cssu or not it shouldn't have any effect. If vimeo download works on cutetube it means that youtube changed something to not allow video downloads	00:16
FIQ\|n900	they've never allowed video downloads	00:16
FIQ\|n900	people are just playing cat and mouse :P	00:17
* RST38h moos		00:19
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DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: fist try a manual fsck	00:22
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DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: iirc BM has an fsck option	00:23
FIQ\|n900	oh it has?	00:23
FIQ\|n900	will check it out then	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: anyway you first should do a BM backup	00:24
FIQ\|n900	see you in a few minutes up to some hours	00:24
FIQ\|n900	yeah I'll do that	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	and don't forget to copy your ~ as well, since iirc BM does not backup that	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	then first thing to try is to remove the dir containing the garbled files, after copying the valuable files in that .xchat2/	00:25
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FIQ\|n900	it does backup both partitions	00:25
DocScrutinizer05	It says it backups /opt	00:25
FIQ\|n900	both = rootfs and 2gb	00:25
FIQ\|n900	ah	00:26
FIQ\|n900	I assumed it meant both partitions by that	00:26
DocScrutinizer05	I always tend to think /opt == /home but in fact it isn't	00:26
FIQ\|n900	I guess I can somehow backup that too...	00:26
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DocScrutinizer05	simply tar it up to uSD	00:26
FIQ\|n900	don't know if cp is a good idea given those corrupt files	00:26
FIQ\|n900	no uSD here	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	you tried to read from that file?	00:27
FIQ\|n900	the corrupt file? not directly	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	tar it to MyDocs then	00:27
FIQ\|n900	but I assume ls -l tries to	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	no	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	ls -l simply reads out the dir inodes	00:27
FIQ\|n900	but xchat perhaps do...	00:27
DocScrutinizer05	what does ls say how long that file?	00:28
FIQ\|n900	given that xchat said it was unable to open some log files for writing	00:28
FIQ\|n900	"?"	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	ooh	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	nice	00:28
FIQ\|n900	nice?	00:28
FIQ\|n900	nice how	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	copy everything non-garbled out of .xchat2/, then delete .xchat2/	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	nice like funny	00:29
FIQ\|n900	hm	00:29
FIQ\|n900	will try it	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	rather, first rename the dir	00:30
DocScrutinizer05	mv .xchat2 garbled-shit	00:30
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DocScrutinizer05	ext3 journal doesn't help once the volume got mounted	00:31
DocScrutinizer05	not for fsck	00:31
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win7mac	ROTFL... believe it or not, there is a company named Dog Schidt...	00:32
FIQ\|n900	ok	00:32
win7mac	and they're serious about it: https://www.facebook.com/DogSchidtOptiks	00:32
DocScrutinizer05	a few other thing you can try: stat, lsof, less *	00:32
win7mac	Have a nice trip: http://vimeo.com/69051998	00:32
FIQ\|n900	uhhh	00:33
FIQ\|n900	hm	00:34
FIQ\|n900	that might be a problem	00:34
DocScrutinizer05	fsck -nv /home	00:38
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: when I tried to cp everything, a couple of other files gave Invalid argument	00:38
FIQ\|n900	more than these that ls couldn't bother with	00:39
DocScrutinizer05	which ones?	00:39
FIQ\|n900	*everything from xchat2	00:39
DocScrutinizer05	duh	00:39
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DocScrutinizer05	http://privatepaste.com/103c92b22e	00:41
DocScrutinizer05	http://privatepaste.com/358a2ce8c5	00:41
FIQ\|n900	well for example a file .xchat2/scrollback/QuakeNet/j3b\|skoldator.txt - tried ls -l on that directory and saw no issues	00:41
FIQ\|n900	could even read the file with less	00:42
FIQ\|n900	which was a bit confusing	00:42
DocScrutinizer05	please pastebin whole session of yours	00:43
DocScrutinizer05	maybe your cp cmd actually had invalid argument?	00:43
FIQ\|n900	not easy given lack of scrollback @terminal...	00:43
FIQ\|n900	ah no that wasn't it	00:43
FIQ\|n900	hmm wait let's try something	00:44
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FIQ\|n900	[323][user@Nokia-N900 ~/MyDocs/backups/xchat2/scrollback/QuakeNet]$ cp ~/.xchat2/scrollback/QuakeNet/* .	00:45
FIQ\|n900	cp: kan inte skapa normal fil "./j3b\|skoldator.txt": Invalid argument	00:45
FIQ\|n900	nothing wrong with the syntax	00:45
FIQ\|n900	and it manages to create all other files in the directory fine	00:45
* DocScrutinizer05 sentimentally recalls old weird stories from the times when linux did a "mv ~/bla/ ~/bla/blaerg/bla"		00:46
FIQ\|n900	why can I read that file but not copy it?	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	you shouldn't use wildcards	00:47
FIQ\|n900	not?	00:47
DocScrutinizer05	not to copy all the files that are not garbled	00:48
DocScrutinizer05	also a LANG=en_GB would be nice	00:49
FIQ\|n900	oh yeah	00:49
FIQ\|n900	but point is	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	[LANG=C doesn't work on maemo >:-( ]	00:49
FIQ\|n900	couldn't possibly know there wasn't any issues with the file before actually trying to copy it	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	well, it probably has a rotten inode in file-inodes	00:50
DocScrutinizer05	or a completely illegal char in filename	00:50
FIQ\|n900	ohhhh might be that @illegal char	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	or it's even messybox that fails	00:51
FIQ\|n900	or does fat support \|?	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	messybox might not	00:51
FIQ\|n900	no cp is gnu provided	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	you know wildcards get expanded by shell	00:51
FIQ\|n900	have coreutils-gnu here	00:51
FIQ\|n900	using bash	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	mhm	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	good	00:51
FIQ\|n900	ok will try to copy it manually	00:52
FIQ\|n900	w/o wildcarding	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	do a stat j*	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	pastebin result pls	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	or even tab-expand j rather than using wildcard	00:52
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: your last reboot resp shutdown been not a gentle one?	00:53
FIQ\|n900	my last reboot was fine	00:54
FIQ\|n900	however I've done some ungentle reboots earlier	00:54
DocScrutinizer05	no hard shutdown or anything?	00:54
FIQ\|n900	no not last time	00:55
FIQ\|n900	[23:54:46] <FIQ\|n900> however I've done some ungentle reboots earlier	00:55
FIQ\|n900	perhaps I should refrain from doing it unless necessary	00:55
DocScrutinizer05	may have hidden since	00:55
FIQ\|n900	reason is that I usually just switch batteries w/o bothering shutting down beforehand	00:55
FIQ\|n900	never realized it could give annoying consequences...	00:56
DocScrutinizer05	that's nasty	00:56
FIQ\|n900	well apparently it wasn't a good idea	00:56
DocScrutinizer05	did you do a fsck -nv meanwhile?	00:56
FIQ\|n900	btw, how do I pastebin content from terminal directly?	00:56
FIQ\|n900	there was some curl-fu way...	00:57
FIQ\|n900	fsck -nv hmm	00:57
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: that requires umounting, no?	00:57
FIQ\|n900	even though it's simulation	00:57
FIQ\|n900	(i.e. -n)	00:57
DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:/home/user# date \| pastebinit	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	http://pastebin.com/M9j5Vvmn	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	http://privatepaste.com/358a2ce8c5	00:58
FIQ\|n900	oh I have pastebinit apparently	00:58
* FIQ\|n900 forgots		00:58
FIQ\|n900	http://pastebin.com/YDSan2RT	00:59
FIQ\|n900	hmm	00:59
FIQ\|n900	"normal fil" sounds swedish...	01:00
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	01:01
FIQ\|n900	http://pastebin.com/qraGtc3a english localization in case you didn't like the first one	01:01
DocScrutinizer05	anyway, looks normal	01:02
FIQ\|n900	(i.e. using LANG=en_GB;	01:02
FIQ\|n900	*)	01:02
FIQ\|n900	ok will try something	01:02
FIQ\|n900	...that didn't work	01:02
FIQ\|n900	lang=en_GB also doesn't seem to do anything	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	less f*	01:03
FIQ\|n900	touch: sätter tider på "test\|a": No such file or directory	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	LANG	01:03
FIQ\|n900	so basically I found the reason why that file failed	01:03
FIQ\|n900	[00:03:01] <FIQ\|n900> lang=en_GB also doesn't seem to do anything	01:03
FIQ\|n900	anyway	01:03
FIQ\|n900	fat doesn't like \|	01:03
FIQ\|n900	which is why cp failed with that file	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	sure thing	01:04
DocScrutinizer05	toldya	01:04
FIQ\|n900	but still	01:04
FIQ\|n900	sec	01:04
FIQ\|n900	ok good	01:05
FIQ\|n900	everything cp failed was either one of the 4 files	01:05
FIQ\|n900	or something fat didn't like	01:05
DocScrutinizer05	use tar	01:05
FIQ\|n900	just taring the partition directly via /dev?	01:06
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DocScrutinizer05	nah, I thought of taring your ~	01:07
FIQ\|n900	hm	01:07
FIQ\|n900	wont that attempt to tar MyDocs too?	01:08
FIQ\|n900	hmm	01:08
FIQ\|n900	let's see if exclusion is possible	01:08
DocScrutinizer05	same-fs should be possible	01:08
DocScrutinizer05	--one-file-system	01:10
FIQ\|n900	then this I guess: tar -cf home.tar --one-file-system ~	01:11
FIQ\|n900	btw, can this freeze the system?	01:11
FIQ\|n900	once before when I did a big file download to MyDocs, system froze and proceed to corrupt MyDocs	01:12
FIQ\|n900	so I'd rather avoid that	01:12
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FIQ\|n900	btw DocScrutinizer05	01:16
FIQ\|n900	ls: kan inte komma åt LaZ-#romhacking.log: Stale NFS file handle	01:16
FIQ\|n900	(sorry about lack of proper localization, see above why)	01:16
FIQ\|n900	that's the error it gives for these 4 inaccessible files	01:16
FIQ\|n900	doesn't tell me anything, perhaps it tells you the exact issue	01:17
DocScrutinizer05	try find /home/user/ -n -path="MyDoc" -exec tar A -f home.tar {} \;	01:18
FIQ\|n900	should I halt the execution of what I gave earlier?	01:18
DocScrutinizer05	about localization: LANG, not lang	01:18
FIQ\|n900	LANG=en_GB	01:18
FIQ\|n900	is what I ran	01:19
FIQ\|n900	i.e. LANG=en_GB (command)	01:19
FIQ\|n900	hm	01:20
DocScrutinizer05	LANG=en_EN	01:20
DocScrutinizer05	sorry	01:20
DocScrutinizer05	LANG=en_EN cp --help	01:20
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FIQ\|n900	-n fails @ find	01:20
FIQ\|n900	unknown option	01:20
DocScrutinizer05	umm	01:21
FIQ\|n900	find: unknown predicate `-n'	01:21
FIQ\|n900	to be exact	01:21
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DocScrutinizer05	-not	01:21
FIQ\|n900	ok	01:21
DocScrutinizer05	but if your other command didn't already freeze	01:22
DocScrutinizer05	you should let it finsih	01:22
FIQ\|n900	it didn't freeze	01:23
FIQ\|n900	and I let it finish	01:23
FIQ\|n900	it only failed 8 files, 4 in .modest due to permission issues, and then the other 4 in .xchat2	01:23
DocScrutinizer05	permission issues?	01:24
FIQ\|n900	but I assumed there was something wrong with what I gave (like, it excluding stuff or things like that) so I tried your command as well...	01:24
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FIQ\|n900	tar: /home/user/.modest/cache/cert8.db: Funktion "open" misslyckades: Permission denied	01:24
FIQ\|n900	(and no didn't run that command before with LANG, sorry	01:25
FIQ\|n900	)	01:25
DocScrutinizer05	nm	01:25
FIQ\|n900	same issue with the other .db files	01:25
DocScrutinizer05	what's ls -l of those?	01:25
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FIQ\|n900	600, only root has access	01:26
DocScrutinizer05	-rw------- 1 user users doesn't give a clue why you couldn't read it	01:26
FIQ\|n900	also it was 3 db files, miscounted lines sorry	01:26
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DocScrutinizer05	flock() ?	01:27
FIQ\|n900	http://pastebin.com/jDJZbFsh	01:27
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FIQ\|n900	is the ls -l of that directory	01:27
DocScrutinizer05	~ $ cp /home/user/.modest/cache/cert8.db xxx	01:28
FIQ\|n900	the 3 who only root can access wasn't able to be included with tar	01:28
DocScrutinizer05	~ $ ls -l xxx	01:28
DocScrutinizer05	-rw------- 1 user users 65536 Jul 21 00:27 xxx	01:28
FIQ\|n900	huh	01:28
FIQ\|n900	why is it only for root for me?	01:28
FIQ\|n900	and yeah, trying the same thing logically gave "cp: cannot open `.modest/cache/cert8.db' for reading: Permission denied"	01:29
DocScrutinizer05	no idea	01:29
FIQ\|n900	should it be like that?	01:29
DocScrutinizer05	most likely not	01:30
FIQ\|n900	otherwise I guess I could change it with sudo...	01:30
DocScrutinizer05	you probably should	01:30
FIQ\|n900	anyway	01:30
DocScrutinizer05	I guess you did some cert handling as root	01:30
FIQ\|n900	doubt it tbh, but perhaps	01:30
DocScrutinizer05	back with TURKCERT	01:30
qwazix	what's the package that asks for time each time the N900 forgets it?	01:31
FIQ\|n900	as said earlier - only these 4 files (in .xchat2) appeared to be corrupt given tar results	01:31
FIQ\|n900	and another question you never answered	01:31
DocScrutinizer05	qwazix: sth like welcome	01:31
FIQ\|n900	wouldn't fsck -nv require umounting the partition?	01:31
DocScrutinizer05	no	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	see my pastebin	01:32
FIQ\|n900	ah ok	01:32
qwazix	hildon-welcome maybe?	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	hildon-welcome is shakehands iirc	01:32
qwazix	safe to remove?	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	~jrtools	01:32
infobot	methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	01:33
FIQ\|n900	http://pastebin.com/fCxq3n63 is the fsck result	01:33
FIQ\|n900	doesn't sound very good to me...	01:33
FIQ\|n900	well it only complained on one thing	01:34
qwazix	DocScrutinizer05, removing the file works fine, I was wondering if it would be better to remove the package too.	01:34
FIQ\|n900	(besides the obvious issue of partition being mounted)	01:34
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: but as I did backup with tar, is it safe to simply shutdown and fsck via BM now?	01:35
FIQ\|n900	I guess it's not too bad given only 4 files seem to have issues, all in one directory... but you never know with fs corruptions :x	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	I'd simply delete .xchat2 first	01:37
FIQ\|n900	mkay	01:37
FIQ\|n900	will try that	01:37
FIQ\|n900	failed	01:37
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DocScrutinizer05	stale nfslock?	01:38
FIQ\|n900	it successfully removed everything in the directory besides those 4 yeah	01:38
FIQ\|n900	(and their parent directories)	01:38
FIQ\|n900	yes	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	rm -rf	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	maybe	01:38
FIQ\|n900	that's what I did	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	then do a fsck via BM	01:39
FIQ\|n900	ok	01:39
DocScrutinizer05	or even directly on mounted fs, if you can convince fsck	01:39
DocScrutinizer05	fsck -v should maybe do it	01:40
DocScrutinizer05	-V even	01:41
DocScrutinizer05	actually -M is needed to NOT check mounted fs, aiui	01:42
DocScrutinizer05	-r for "interactively"	01:43
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qwazix	osso-startup-wizard	01:45
qwazix	probably	01:45
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DocScrutinizer05	actually, -r isn't needed as well, for e2fsck	01:45
qwazix	I wonder if I replace the binary with a symlink to rdate...	01:45
DocScrutinizer05	yes, osso-startup-wizard	01:47
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DocScrutinizer05	qwazix: rather find where it gets called	01:48
DocScrutinizer05	and comment it out	01:48
DocScrutinizer05	less /etc/osso-cud-scripts/osso-startup-wizard-cud.sh :-o	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	/etc/osso-rfs-scripts/osso-startup-wizard-rfs.sh same	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	less /usr/share/osso-startup-wizard/mcc.txt	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	might as well be PIN requester	01:53
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DocScrutinizer05	less /usr/share/osso-startup-wizard/startup-ui-settings.config	01:56
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DocScrutinizer05	/home/opt/usr/share/themes/alpha/startup-wizard/StartupWizardClockFace.png :-)	02:04
DocScrutinizer05	./osso-af-init/real-af-startup	02:06
DocScrutinizer05	if [ -x $AF_INIT_DIR/startup-wizard.sh ]; then wizback_method advance 1; source $AF_INIT_DIR/startup-wizard.sh start; if [ "x$AFTER_SUW_RESTART_NEEDED" != "x0" ]; then source $AF_INIT_DIR/af-defines.sh ;# re-read locale variables	02:08
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DocScrutinizer05	/etc/osso-af-init/real-af-startup	02:09
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FIQ\|n900	well ok	02:10
FIQ\|n900	tried to fsck that partition	02:10
FIQ\|n900	it blamed on the 4 files mentioned, but also on some other stuff	02:11
FIQ\|n900	and umm	02:11
FIQ\|n900	now I have a bigger problem than before	02:11
FIQ\|n900	:p	02:11
FIQ\|n900	well I do have ~ backed up and possible to restore	02:11
FIQ\|n900	this is not the case with /opt though	02:12
psycho_oreos	Isn't /opt usually tied in with the same partition as /home?	02:13
FIQ\|n900	I have http://pastebin.com/QpvcCq00 showing now @ fsck -nv	02:14
FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: yes it's the same partition, I forgot a certain step before fscking.. :D	02:15
FIQ\|n900	the actual BM backup	02:15
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: should I try to erase the fs and restore an older BM backup?	02:16
FIQ\|n900	or would that break BM before being able to restore?	02:16
FIQ\|n900	i.e.	02:16
FIQ\|n900	remove the fs	02:16
FIQ\|n900	recreate it	02:16
FIQ\|n900	restore rootfs and optfs	02:16
FIQ\|n900	mount MyDocs	02:16
FIQ\|n900	untar home.tar to ~	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: I'd guess it should not break BM but I'm not sure	02:17
DocScrutinizer05	qwazix: less /etc/osso-af-init/real-af-startup <- nice read	02:17
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: also - that's not everything, e2fsck actually aborted mid-processing	02:17
FIQ\|n900	both during fsck and the fsck simulation now	02:18
FIQ\|n900	Illegal block number passed to ext2fs_test_block_bitmap #909457187 for multiply claimed block map	02:18
DocScrutinizer05	eeeek	02:18
FIQ\|n900	e2fsck: aborted	02:18
FIQ\|n900	I don't understand what it's trying to say, but well... it doesn't sound good	02:18
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: btw	02:18
FIQ\|n900	fsck blamed me for having the partition mounted while doing it - but I immediately proceed to cancel the process and confirm that - it wasn't mounted at all	02:19
FIQ\|n900	so I don't understand why it said that..?	02:19
FIQ\|n900	("WARNING: BUG IN E2FSCK, OR SOME BONEHEAD (YOU) IS CHECKING A MOUNTED PARTITION"	02:20
FIQ\|n900	)	02:20
FIQ\|n900	or something like that	02:20
DocScrutinizer05	yeah	02:20
FIQ\|n900	also	02:20
DocScrutinizer05	that's a nasty bug in fsck actually	02:20
FIQ\|n900	I used bm's root console (which actually worked, didn't do it before) because bm's fsck told me to run fsck manually	02:21
DocScrutinizer05	it sometimes gets inconsistent about whether a fs is mounted or not	02:21
FIQ\|n900	oh you've seen it before?	02:21
DocScrutinizer05	I once investigated that but forgot everything I found out	02:21
FIQ\|n900	anyway	02:21
FIQ\|n900	would the plan described above work?	02:22
DocScrutinizer05	I guess it should, but honestly I don't feel like recommending anything. a bit tired	02:22
FIQ\|n900	i.e. erase optfs and recreate and restore older optfs	02:22
FIQ\|n900	plus the home.tar	02:22
FIQ\|n900	well	02:23
FIQ\|n900	it should work fine, unless BM relies on stuff on /opt	02:23
FIQ\|n900	obviously maemo wouldn't boot	02:23
FIQ\|n900	but BM should	02:23
DocScrutinizer05	as soon as you nuke optfs you will find system in an inoperable state, unless you're in BM	02:23
DocScrutinizer05	BM should not rely on any opt stuff	02:23
FIQ\|n900	yes but would rebooting make watchdog etc cease to work and break BM?	02:23
DocScrutinizer05	no	02:24
FIQ\|n900	I recall restoring a rootfs suited for the wrong kernel earlier	02:24
FIQ\|n900	and that broke BM horribly	02:24
FIQ\|n900	but that was rootfs, not optfs	02:24
DocScrutinizer05	sure, but that's not opt related	02:24
FIQ\|n900	hmm	02:25
psycho_oreos	BM doesn't have any of its own provided files within the installer package residing in /opt.	02:25
FIQ\|n900	well how do I recreate the partition then? because I don't know that	02:25
DocScrutinizer05	when BM runs, /opt isn't mounted yet, that's the whole point of BM	02:25
FIQ\|n900	I'm willing to try it - after all, there seems to be no other way	02:25
DocScrutinizer05	mkfs should suffice	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	but I dunno how to do that either, except via BM console	02:26
FIQ\|n900	mkfs /dev/mmcblk0p2?	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	02:26
FIQ\|n900	I'm going to use root console	02:26
FIQ\|n900	from bm	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	that should work	02:26
FIQ\|n900	no other arguments?	02:27
FIQ\|n900	just making sure not to mess up	02:27
FIQ\|n900	given I cannot check here meanwhile lol	02:27
psycho_oreos	mkfs.ext3 to be a little more specific. In case the MBR tables is a little messed up, also I'd double check with fsck -l	02:28
FIQ\|n900	MBR tables? master boot record?	02:28
FIQ\|n900	on n900?	02:28
DocScrutinizer05	well, probably you want to add arguments as needed according to man mkfs	02:28
FIQ\|n900	well yeah	02:29
FIQ\|n900	ok so let's see here	02:29
FIQ\|n900	this shouldn't be too hard to just do	02:30
FIQ\|n900	if it works or not is another ballgame	02:30
psycho_oreos	/dev/mmcblk0p2 884866 950401 2097152 83 Linux	02:30
FIQ\|n900	btw DocScrutinizer05 any idea how to get rid of that battery message in the root console?	02:30
FIQ\|n900	I found it somewhat annoying during fsck due to being unable to read things properly	02:31
psycho_oreos	Rather I　don't know how you describe it, the boot record that contains the tables for a storage medium	02:31
DocScrutinizer05	less /etc/mke2fs.conf	02:31
qwazix	replacing osso_startup_wizard with a script that does rdate -s after 20s doesn't work	02:33
qwazix	in case anybody was curious	02:33
DocScrutinizer05	not exactly a surprise, qwazix	02:34
qwazix	at least I got rid of the annoying popup	02:34
qwazix	DocScrutinizer05, why?	02:34
DocScrutinizer05	qwazix: less /etc/osso-af-init/real-af-startup <- nice read	02:35
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: I don't know what battery message you talk about	02:36
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: ok	02:36
FIQ\|n900	another question before I go	02:37
DocScrutinizer05	might be some output of charge21.sh	02:37
FIQ\|n900	would restoring only optfs (not rootfs) be a bad idea?	02:37
DocScrutinizer05	err, depends	02:37
FIQ\|n900	latest optfs is not very recent	02:37
DocScrutinizer05	if it's consistent with rootfs then I dunno what should go haywire	02:37
FIQ\|n900	well my reasoning was that perhaps some applications I've installed since, placed stuff in optfs	02:38
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FIQ\|n900	while its' state of installed is in rootfs	02:38
FIQ\|n900	messing things up	02:38
DocScrutinizer05	yes	02:38
FIQ\|n900	if that can happen, I'll have to do a rootfs restoration too	02:39
DocScrutinizer05	this would render such late installed apps broken	02:39
FIQ\|n900	and then I need to check yet another thing...	02:39
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FIQ\|n900	which rootfs are tied to the correct kernel	02:39
DocScrutinizer05	you either need to do rootfs reflash then, or re-install the broken apps	02:39
FIQ\|n900	to prevent something I managed before	02:39
FIQ\|n900	(managed to restore a rootfs with vanilla kernel within a powerkernel install)	02:40
FIQ\|n900	hmm	02:40
FIQ\|n900	no idea how to make sure it's to the right kernel	02:40
DocScrutinizer05	you need to reinstall all apps then anyway, so why not just reinstall those that were installed after opt backup been done?	02:41
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: problem is potential apps I forget about	02:41
FIQ\|n900	but perhaps that's not actually an issue	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	you can find dtale symlinks to /opt later on	02:41
DocScrutinizer05	stale*	02:41
FIQ\|n900	(and perhaps such apps would expose themselves anyway)	02:41
FIQ\|n900	mhm	02:42
FIQ\|n900	well I guess I'll just restore optfs then	02:42
FIQ\|n900	seems easier	02:42
DocScrutinizer05	go ahead	02:42
FIQ\|n900	oh, can Maemo handle lack of ~?	02:42
DocScrutinizer05	no, not really	02:42
FIQ\|n900	if it can, I'll simply restore home.tar once back into maemo	02:42
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FIQ\|n900	ah	02:43
FIQ\|n900	guess I'll have to restore it on root terminal then	02:43
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DocScrutinizer05	it will recreate user's home if missing, I'd guess	02:43
FIQ\|n900	shouldn't be too hard, just wanted to get back to a comfortable environment asap :P	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	but as well might bootloop	02:43
FIQ\|n900	oh well	02:43
FIQ\|n900	see you	02:43
DocScrutinizer05	good luck	02:44
FIQ\|n900	hm wait	02:44
FIQ\|n900	will have to read manpage on amemo lol	02:44
FIQ\|n900	*maemo	02:44
FIQ\|n900	brb	02:44
qwazix	I can not understand how on earth (or any other parallel universe for that matter) reading shell scripts could be nice :P	02:44
DocScrutinizer05	hahaha	02:44
qwazix	but I see that a startup-wizard.sh is called which I cannot find	02:45
DocScrutinizer05	visit my universe, you'd be surprised	02:45
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: would ext4 be a better idea btw? now that I'll need to reformat anyway	02:45
DocScrutinizer05	there is no startup-wizard.sh	02:46
DocScrutinizer05	according to locate	02:46
DocScrutinizer05	weird	02:47
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: some claim it is	02:47
FIQ\|n900	hmm	02:47
DocScrutinizer05	but no support in stock kernel for that	02:47
DocScrutinizer05	iirc	02:47
FIQ\|n900	well I'm running powerkernel	02:48
FIQ\|n900	but I guess better safe than sorry	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	then you probably should be fine	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: was that you who had ext4?	02:48
FIQ\|n900	there was a wikipage on how to switch mydocs and ~.. while that's not what I'm doing, perhaps it could tell me a bit what I should do	02:48
DocScrutinizer05	on /home	02:48
FIQ\|n900	(i.e. mkfs options)	02:48
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DocScrutinizer05	for mkfs options see what I quoted above	02:49
DocScrutinizer05	less /etc/mke2fs.conf	02:49
qwazix	If I can find the script that checks if time == 00:00 2000/01/01 and calls osso_startup_wizard it would be awesome	02:49
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: ah	02:49
FIQ\|n900	will look into it	02:49
FIQ\|n900	qwazix: why not just get rid of hildon-welcome? though perhaps that's not what you want to do	02:50
* FIQ\|n900 did that a while ago		02:50
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DocScrutinizer05	./X11/Xsession.d/30osso_startup_wizard: /usr/bin/osso_startup_wizard 1>&2	02:51
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DocScrutinizer05	qwazix: ^^^	02:52
DocScrutinizer05	if [ ! -e /var/dont_start_suw ]; then	02:53
DocScrutinizer05	:-D	02:53
qwazix	thanks	02:53
qwazix	FIQ\|n900, I'm trying to make the N900 get the time automatically from a ntp server if bupbat is down	02:54
FIQ\|n900	hm ok	02:54
* FIQ\|n900 simply uninstalled hildon-welcome		02:54
FIQ\|n900	time is configured automatically by SIM	02:54
qwazix	hildon-welcome is irrelevant	02:54
FIQ\|n900	faster and more convenient	02:54
qwazix	it's the shaking hands video	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	yep	02:55
FIQ\|n900	oh hmm	02:55
FIQ\|n900	but I removed that startup thing	02:55
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#replace_shaking-hands_video	02:55
FIQ\|n900	seems I recall how wrongly though	02:55
FIQ\|n900	oh well	02:56
FIQ\|n900	let's try fix optfs now	02:56
FIQ\|n900	see you	02:56
DocScrutinizer05	you can remove /etc//X11/Xsession.d/30osso_startup_wizard	02:56
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qwazix	does that script run as user or as root?	03:01
qwazix	now I know why it doesn't work: the whole thing runs before wlan is up. Even if I tell it to sleep I'm just delaying the whole thing	03:07
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qwazix	bye	03:15
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FIQ\|n900	there we go	03:35
FIQ\|n900	went unexpectedly smooth	03:35
FIQ\|n900	even though the optfs was apparently half a year old ...	03:36
FIQ\|n900	guess I'll run into some hiccups still not restoring both fs at the same time	03:36
FIQ\|n900	but I at least solved the obvious issues	03:36
FIQ\|n900	(10 icons in menu not showing up properly, grep not working properly)	03:37
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: do you know any way to figure out "missing" symlinks?	03:37
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FIQ\|n900	easily that is	03:37
FIQ\|n900	or better yet, a way for apt to figure out what packages are missing files	03:37
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer51: also, worth pointing out - optfs restoration did restore an old ~ as well	03:39
FIQ\|n900	I simply updated ~ with my tar on boot as it was newer than that restoration, but yeah	03:39
FIQ\|n900	next time such issues arise, I'll tar /home rather than /home/user	03:39
FIQ\|n900	or better yet, let BM try it first and only when it fails, do it for hand	03:40
FIQ\|n900	*by hand	03:40
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: find can spot dangling symlinks I guess	03:40
FIQ\|n900	also I should really consider restoring my xchat.conf to defaults...	03:41
FIQ\|n900	atm it's kinda broken	03:41
DocScrutinizer05	~jrxchat	03:42
infobot	well, jrxchat is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/	03:42
FIQ\|n900	(it has been like that for a while now, never bothered fixing it)	03:42
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DocScrutinizer05	meh	03:44
DocScrutinizer05	nevertheless, for the record: man find: >> l symbolic link; this is never true if the -L option or the -follow option is in effect, unless the symbolic link is broken.<<	03:45
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FIQ\|n900	there we go	03:45
DocScrutinizer05	ooh	03:45
DocScrutinizer05	[2013-07-21 02:43:43] <-- FIQ\|n900 has left this server (Quit: Leaving).	03:46
FIQ\|n900	*keybindings.conf not xchat.conf lol	03:46
FIQ\|n900	accidentally messed keybindings earlier when trying to disable C-i idiocy	03:46
FIQ\|n900	xchat completely ignored it >.>	03:46
DocScrutinizer05	nevertheless, for the record: man find: >> l symbolic link; this is never true if the -L option or the -follow option is in effect, unless the symbolic link is broken.<<	03:47
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FIQ\|n900	and apart from ignoring C-i rebinding, I also managed to mess up some other keybindings	03:48
FIQ\|n900	so I basically just made it worse :D	03:48
bef0rd	reflash	03:49
FIQ\|n900	wut?	03:49
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: nice	03:49
FIQ\|n900	hmm	03:50
FIQ\|n900	I wonder if complaining to author of xchat package could make him fix c-i idiocy	03:50
FIQ\|n900	though I believe the real issue is upon xchat devs	03:50
FIQ\|n900	the problem is, C-i uses their old keybinding functionality not within the configuration file	03:51
FIQ\|n900	and in addition, C-i likes to segfault	03:51
FIQ\|n900	the reason I use it at all is unintended - weechat (and irssi) has nickcompletion on that combination...	03:52
FIQ\|n900	would be nice if c-i could do that instead, or at least nothing at all rather than crashing	03:52
DocScrutinizer05	ctrl-i is TAB	03:53
DocScrutinizer05	unless shell/xterm keybindings changed it	03:54
FIQ\|n900	not in xchat	03:55
FIQ\|n900	in xchat, ctrl+i breaks current window to a desktop window	03:55
FIQ\|n900	however in n900 version (and in desktop version too! though less often), it crashes xchat	03:56
DocScrutinizer05	that's weird	03:56
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DocScrutinizer05	for sure not implemented in n900 xchat	03:56
FIQ\|n900	[02:54:02] <LIP> FIQ\|n900: other than removing the item from the source and recompiling, not at this point	03:56
FIQ\|n900	:(	03:56
FIQ\|n900	(in #xchat, asking if removing the combination is possible)	03:57
DrCode	I want to use mail for exchange to sync exchange server , what can I use to sync gmail (calander,contact)	04:00
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DocScrutinizer05	well, then that's what should be done: comment out that function completely, and while we're at it please also allow to disable the close-channel button in lower-left under the tabs list directly above the scrollbuttons for said tablist	04:01
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FIQ\|n900	I don't follow what you mean @ the latter	04:03
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FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: apparently, an user (same one as that paste was from) is already working on a patch for that issue, plus the crashing	04:04
FIQ\|n900	so if it gets released anytime soon, I guess commenting it out wouldn't be necessary, and simply updating to upstream 2.8.10 or whatever is next is enough	04:04
FIQ\|n900	n900's xchat port is outdated anyway	04:05
bef0rd	sombody should update it	04:05
* bef0rd points FIQ\|n900		04:05
FIQ\|n900	bef0rd: 1) not a package manager of that package, 2) no maemo sdk :P	04:05
bef0rd	you can always request access to update it	04:06
FIQ\|n900	afaik R3st8h is the author of xchat n900 port	04:06
FIQ\|n900	~seen r3st8h	04:06
infobot	FIQ\|n900: i haven't seen 'r3st8h'	04:06
FIQ\|n900	hm perhaps I recall his nick wrong	04:06
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FIQ\|n900	afk	04:08
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bef0rd	maybe RST38h	04:08
psycho_oreos	~seen RST38h	04:09
infobot	rst38h is currently on #maemo (16h 1m 44s) #maemo-ssu (16h 1m 44s), last said: 'The Adam generates a surge of electromagnetic energy on startup, which can erase the contents of any removable media left in or near the drive.'.	04:09
FIQ\|n900	oh that was it	04:09
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FIQ\|n900	RST38h: ping? also sorry for getting your nick wrong	04:10
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FIQ\|n900	hmm	04:15
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FIQ\|n900	perhaps I should try to make it a routine to backup (opt\|root)fs once a month	04:16
FIQ\|n900	to avoid restorations from too long ago	04:16
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kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i have ext4, yeah	08:55
kerio	first, repartition and align to 4mb	08:55
kerio	then add the raid striping options to ext4	08:56
kerio	then enjoy ext4	08:56
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DrCode	hi all	10:37
DrCode	I understand that mail for exchange can sync only 1 account, Emminnig can sync calander	10:37
DrCode	is there way to sync my contact ?	10:37
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DocScrutinizer05	good (UGT) morning	12:07
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win7mac	g'morning	12:57
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Lava_Croft	wtf tempratures	13:09
Macer	wtf	13:27
Macer	why the hell does user not have write access to MyDocs	13:27
Macer	and the SD?	13:27
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Macer	you have got to be kidding me	13:33
Macer	i was wondering why i can't save crap from the device to the vfat	13:33
Macer	and i find out that for whatever reason user doesn't hve write permissions after updating to thumb	13:33
Hurrian	Macer: check perms, check genfstab.awk	13:34
Macer	i know the permissions are wrong	13:40
Macer	it is mounting with root:root as its owner	13:41
Macer	i just changed the fstab manually for MyDocs	13:41
Macer	and rebooted..	13:41
Macer	but seriously.. wtf?	13:41
Macer	where is genfstab.awk? /etc?	13:41
Macer	this is crazy	13:43
Macer	especially considering MyDocs is vfat	13:43
Macer	lol	13:43
Macer	i don't see a genfstab.awk	13:43
Macer	and you can't change perms on a vfat fs	13:44
Macer	there is no genfstab.awk on my friggin n900	13:45
Macer	wow. this is amazing. i'm sick of bothering with using old devices. time to just suck it up ebay these and get a GS4	13:47
Macer	an update shouldn't ruin your ability to write to your SD and MyDocs	13:47
Macer	even attempting to remount with mount with the uid flags set doesn't change it	13:51
Macer	fk this. i'll just swap the sim out move my stuff off of it and ebay it	13:53
Lava_Croft	and make someone else happy with a valued n900! \o/	13:53
Macer	if happy is the word you want to use	13:54
Macer	i like the n900 but when you have shit like this happen where you are trying to figure out why you can't save an img from an mms	13:54
Macer	it's time to go	13:54
Lava_Croft	n900 doesnt even support mms out of the box	13:54
Macer	that should tell you a lot right there	13:55
Macer	but even so	13:55
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Lava_Croft	mms is deprecated	13:55
Macer	it isn't the mms that is the problem	13:55
Macer	lol. if you say so	13:55
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Macer	there are still millions and millions of people who use mms to send pics	13:55
Macer	but like i said	13:55
Macer	that isn't the issue right now	13:56
Macer	right now i updated and i can't write to the vfat partitions	13:56
Lava_Croft	i run thumb, didnt have such a problem	13:56
Macer	nor can i find an easy fix to do so.. so now i have to dive into it and try to figure out what went wrong	13:56
Macer	and why i can't do something as simple as write to MyDocs and the SD?	13:56
Macer	i hate to say it but these are the sorts of things that should just work. it is no wonder nokia killed maemo off :)	13:57
Lava_Croft	same reason why you cannot do other 'simple' taks on other mobiles	13:57
Lava_Croft	tasks*	13:57
Macer	er	13:57
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Macer	like..... use PAN, MMS, and write to an SD? :)	13:57
Lava_Croft	blame nokia for cssu thumb update?	13:57
Lava_Croft	why dont you blame MS too, since thats fashionable	13:57
* Lava_Croft huckles		13:58
Macer	nope. but i can understand why they dropped it	13:58
Lava_Croft	you cant	13:58
Lava_Croft	you are just enraged	13:58
DocScrutinizer05	Macer: please stop ranting!	13:58
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Lava_Croft	yeah, ranting is the sole right of DocScrutinizer05	13:58
* Lava_Croft chuckles some more		13:59
DocScrutinizer05	yes, since I know how to rant, while Macer just makes a fool of himself, by bitvhing about MyDocs not mounted rw	13:59
Lava_Croft	opinions probably differ on the first part of your sentence	14:00
Lava_Croft	but the last part is correct	14:00
DocScrutinizer05	if that's a bug then report a bug, don't act like a defiant child that assumes everything done just to annoy him	14:00
Lava_Croft	and there i thought freemangordon lived off of the misery experienced by people like Macer	14:01
Lava_Croft	boy was i wrong!	14:01
Macer	lol	14:01
DocScrutinizer05	and particularly staements like "I'm not going to do $X to get rid of this <insert-XXX-here> maemo device, and get a $X instead" is not interesting anybody in this channel	14:02
Macer	well... if anybody wants to buy this thing let me know. i'm going to ebay it in a bit. i'll give it up for $150	14:02
DocScrutinizer05	s/not/now/	14:03
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: and particularly staements like "I'm now going to do $X to get rid of this <insert-XXX-here> maemo device, and get a $X instead" is not interesting anybody in this channel	14:03
DocScrutinizer05	I suppose you try ebay right away, since all your bitching wasn't a good PR for selling your device at that pricetag in here	14:04
Macer	k	14:04
Macer	just figured i'd ask	14:04
DocScrutinizer05	150? nah	14:04
DocScrutinizer05	I'm also no fan of latest CSSU-T fstab hack. It's basically worth nothing and high risk, just implemented to avoid the problems it's actually introducing. But honestly, that's a CSSU-T issue, not a N900 or maemo issue	14:06
Macer	i would have to agree with you there	14:09
Macer	i still have my e7 tho. so there is that at least	14:09
DocScrutinizer05	but hey, all my fighting for a conservative maintenance of CSSU finally succumbed to the fanboys of bleeding edge and "we want monthly updates, no matter what for"	14:09
Macer	lol	14:10
Macer	yeah. i just figured it would provide a benefit	14:10
Macer	seems not but to each their own. im sure devs still love n900s	14:10
Macer	nowadays i just want something that has a qwerty and works lol	14:11
Macer	s4 has the attachable bt qwerty so that should do the trick	14:12
Macer	and a msd slot. time to give up on the could've beens.	14:12
Macer	ah well. it has been fun. good luck with everything.	14:13
Lava_Croft	and it has android	14:14
Lava_Croft	no gnu userland	14:14
Lava_Croft	samsung hw	14:14
Lava_Croft	glass screen	14:14
Lava_Croft	have fun with it!	14:14
Macer	meh. i will put a debian chroot on it. the touchscreen is better with multi finger support... can install cm on it to avoid ad-droid based stuff. and it can multitask just fine	14:15
Macer	and i am bold enough to say the samsung hw is probably a bit stronger than what the n900 is working with. ;)	14:16
Lava_Croft	CM is still android	14:16
DocScrutinizer05	stronger as in...?	14:16
Lava_Croft	it still has no GNU userland	14:16
Lava_Croft	and you need a quadcore CPU to run android without lag	14:16
DocScrutinizer05	sure CPU has higher clock	14:17
Macer	well. not like there are many alternatives	14:17
Lava_Croft	samsung captiva glide	14:17
Lava_Croft	at least that has a HW keyboard	14:17
Macer	maybe ubuntu devices will show promise	14:17
DocScrutinizer05	oh?	14:17
Lava_Croft	DocScrutinizer05: http://www.phonespot.nl/images/productimages/big/Samsung%20Captivate%20Glide%20i927%20002.jpg	14:18
Lava_Croft	i927	14:18
DocScrutinizer05	thanks	14:18
Lava_Croft	friend of mine got it to replace his n900	14:18
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Lava_Croft	apart from android, he is rather happy with it	14:18
Lava_Croft	oh, and it lacks a CTRL key:)	14:18
Lava_Croft	but there is a CM release for it, so	14:18
DocScrutinizer05	wow, that looks nice	14:18
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Lava_Croft	its not maemo, but its not that bad	14:18
Hurrian	wow, uhh, that's a pretty crappy android phone.	14:18
Lava_Croft	i think only in the US/Asia tho	14:19
Lava_Croft	not EU	14:19
Lava_Croft	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Samsung_Captivate_Glide_-_SGH-I927_-_013.JPG/1280px-Samsung_Captivate_Glide_-_SGH-I927_-_013.JPG	14:19
Lava_Croft	nicer pic	14:19
Hurrian	meh, get a phone with a large enough keyboard, and you won't be complaining about hwkb unless you use terminal /a lot/ to edit files in vi.	14:20
Lava_Croft	hw keyb > *	14:20
Lava_Croft	no onscreen keyboard can replace it	14:20
DocScrutinizer05	eeeeek! that looks like one crappy kbd, almost as crappy as N950 or eten M800	14:20
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Hurrian	Lava_Croft: N9's touch keyboard is fine by me.	14:21
Lava_Croft	its no replacement	14:21
Macer	http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00D2ZUN1Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1374405622&sr=8-3&pi=SL75	14:21
Macer	was thinking more of that	14:21
Lava_Croft	that will need another case to protect the screen	14:22
Lava_Croft	since its samsung, the shell of the phone is made of rubber-like substance	14:22
Lava_Croft	making the phone bendable as shit	14:22
Lava_Croft	thats why samsung invests so heavily into flexible screens	14:22
Lava_Croft	thats easier than learning how to make good HW	14:22
Macer	like falling off usb ports? ;)	14:23
Lava_Croft	never happened to me or anyone i know with n900	14:23
Macer	http://https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dyndns.sven_ola.debian_kit&hl=en	14:23
Lava_Croft	i only know it from TMO	14:23
DocScrutinizer05	and the AWESOME keys it got! "www." ".com" `speech input´ "smiley" "OK"	14:24
Macer	haha	14:24
Lava_Croft	welcome to android	14:24
DocScrutinizer05	can I please get ".de" instead of ".com" ?	14:24
Macer	well... that was the 1st one i saw	14:24
Lava_Croft	.com key is normal in android, with onscreen keyb too	14:24
Macer	there are others	14:24
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Macer	but they have them to get a qwerty onto an s4	14:24
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DocScrutinizer05	"www." and <smiley> for sure are my alltime favorites	14:25
Macer	im sure they are easily remapped	14:25
Macer	to tab and pipe	14:25
Macer	heh	14:26
DocScrutinizer05	I hope the printing on key is also scrap-off otherwise too embarrassing	14:26
Macer	to whom?	14:26
DocScrutinizer05	to the bearer	14:26
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	14:26
Macer	i doubt anybody would notice or care. maybe a cs major	14:27
DocScrutinizer05	I'd be ashamed to carry a device with a smiley hw key	14:27
Macer	and even then theyd probably just like it because it is a qwerty on an s4	14:27
Macer	cant really find too many high end phones with qwerty	14:28
Macer	if any at all	14:28
DocScrutinizer05	evem on plane-3	14:28
Macer	probably because you have to sell them internationally	14:28
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Macer	wacky germans with z and y swapped	14:28
Macer	heh	14:28
psycho_oreos	The whole trend is pretty much what Apple had started, phones/devices lacking a proper hardware keyboard.	14:29
Macer	psycho_oreos: it made sense tho	14:29
psycho_oreos	Every other damn manufacturer just followed suit.	14:29
Macer	why make 50 different keyboards?	14:29
Macer	when a vkb is software	14:29
Macer	it probably saved billions so far heh	14:30
psycho_oreos	Macer, yeah and why not give end users no freedom to even do simple commands like copy and paste. Afterall, programmers are free to write their own vkb instead.	14:30
DocScrutinizer05	psycho_oreos: that's just because idiotic industry rather copies than trusting in own R&D and design department	14:31
Macer	well i am sure it is all bottom line	14:31
Macer	like using cheap solder points on usb ports heh	14:31
DocScrutinizer05	"iPhone does it this way. iPhone is market leader. So we do it same way, it must be right thing to do"	14:31
Lava_Croft	iphone is not market leader anywhere except the US	14:32
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer05, for various reasons on various scales, its inevitable that hardware keyboard phones/devices faces their immediate death after PDAs.	14:32
Lava_Croft	Netherlands is about 70 to 80% android	14:32
Macer	Lava_Croft: but most high end ad-droid phones dont have a kb	14:32
psycho_oreos	There was a time when in 2009 some of the top end android devices still featured hardware keyboard. These days hardware keyboard phones/devices are commonly found on dumb/cheap phones.	14:33
DocScrutinizer05	that's since android mimics iPhone	14:33
Macer	but i agree on their reasoning. im sure it also helps with 3rd party international sales	14:33
Lava_Croft	thats because people dont WANT hw keyboards anymore	14:33
Lava_Croft	not because imitating iphone	14:33
DocScrutinizer05	iPhone been first and always been "leader"	14:33
Macer	since for the most part they can be universal	14:33
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DocScrutinizer05	no matter about recent market share	14:34
Macer	Lava_Croft: i think they can just live without them	14:34
Macer	if they had them they would use them	14:34
Lava_Croft	they dont want it	14:34
Lava_Croft	HW keyboard equals bigger phone	14:34
DocScrutinizer05	but copycats like google simply ignore that even Apple might do decisions based on other rationale than mere product usability considerations	14:34
Macer	but a hw kb adds bulk(weight)	14:34
Macer	DocScrutinizer05: cattle eat hay	14:35
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Macer	if they starved to death... theyd eat something else	14:36
psycho_oreos	There was a time where innovative features like 9xxx series communicator and E7 had ways to hide the hardware keyboard. Now it seems like hardware keyboard is an unecessary junk/bulk.	14:36
DocScrutinizer05	see "bigger phone" for example. everybody thinks the trend is to ever smaller devices, while every usability expert can elaborate why that's a deadend path. And recent devices show that trend goes to 5" or even 7" phones	14:36
Macer	heh	14:36
Macer	i wouldnt say my e7 hides it well	14:37
Lava_Croft	where do you get such general statements from like "everybody thinks the trend is towards blabla"	14:37
Macer	i guess it isnt that big	14:37
Macer	im using it now	14:37
DocScrutinizer05	Lava_Croft: that's a simplified statement to summarize trend of whole industry during last 6 years	14:38
DocScrutinizer05	maybe last 8 except last 18 months	14:38
psycho_oreos	N900 isn't all that particularly big with hardware keyboard. It was probably because of the design limitations prohibit N900 to be thin, if you looked at N950 which was virtually based off E7 its noticeably thinner.	14:38
Lava_Croft	the trend has been towards largest phones for quite some years	14:38
Lava_Croft	with even apple copying the androids and getting a bigger screened phone	14:38
Lava_Croft	(after stating you would never need a bigger screen, of course)	14:39
psycho_oreos	Largest and thinnest phones..	14:39
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DocScrutinizer05	psycho_oreos: yep	14:40
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DocScrutinizer05	N900 thickness is basically determined by cam module	14:40
psycho_oreos	The wars between trends has always been a key factor, just yesterday I was watching N900 demo/teaser on cutetube and reading comments to see people flaming each other about N900 vs <insert_other_random_device_here_or_go_with_iPhone>	14:41
DocScrutinizer05	the N900 cam module seems rather poor quality regarding size, in my book	14:42
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psycho_oreos	In N8, they've improved (probably) that cam module but made it purely symbian.	14:43
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DocScrutinizer05	plus it makes for that ugly annoying bump on battery cover	14:43
DocScrutinizer05	I would've shot the ID designers for that	14:43
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DocScrutinizer05	but compared to iPhone cam module it's still phantastic, hw wise (my own unsupported notion). Just that apple did a hell of a job on sw side to compensate for the shorcomings of their crap cam	14:46
DocScrutinizer05	which usually makes for nice snapshots on iPhone, unless you go to take photos under certain conditions (moved objects) where the limitations show clearly, by generating nasty artifacts	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	but then, Apple is a sw developer that knows his busines sw side and eventually decided to do phone hw, while Nokia been a hw developer always and also generally did a lot of outsourcing for the sw side	14:49
DocScrutinizer05	so the differences in design paradigms are clearly based on compny's history	14:50
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DocScrutinizer05	and not even Nokia is rid of limitations the FOSS idea imposes on hw design	14:52
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DocScrutinizer05	ask dm8tbr about how boneheaded companies like e.g ST-E can act when it comes to proper licensing of simple stupid .h files for e.g. GFX	14:54
DocScrutinizer05	iirc the MALI400 grafics core can't get used in FOSS just because ST-E refuses to GPL a already disclosed 200lines .h that's "(C) ST-Ericson"	14:55
RST38h	Rewrite the header, use different names	14:56
RST38h	rearrange them in the header	14:56
psycho_oreos	I think if it were that simple, they would have contemplated with seriousness.	14:56
RST38h	psycho: no	14:56
DocScrutinizer05	no, since both parties are somewhat boneheaded	14:57
psycho_oreos	N900 had lots of cool hardware in general, people just don't realise they could unlock the hardware's inner potential and to look at the obvious shortcomings.	14:57
DocScrutinizer05	well, the fcam guys did	14:58
DocScrutinizer05	and the blessN900 guys as well	14:58
psycho_oreos	It was only then had they got these other people with <insert_random_phone_or_device_here> asking about it and wishing their manufacturer would do the same.	14:58
Wizzup_	hmmm	14:59
Wizzup_	mali can't be used by foss?	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	but still they can't compete with what a 500 heads developer team for just the cam drivers can do at Apple	14:59
Wizzup_	this is new to me	14:59
Wizzup_	I mean, there's no finished foss driver	14:59
psycho_oreos	There was other things like fmtxd, the wl1251 module, the trio LED notification.	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup_: that might have changed meanwhile	14:59
Lava_Croft	life with the n900 is generally like this: iphone user looks at n900 and smirks about size, screen, stylus	14:59
Wizzup_	I have it running on my gentoo install	14:59
Lava_Croft	but once anything has to be done, n900 has to do it	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup_: that info is like 2 years old	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	maybe 3	14:59
Wizzup_	ok	14:59
Lava_Croft	because iphone cant/wont/whatever	14:59
Wizzup_	DocScrutinizer05: libv and others are working on lima	14:59
Wizzup_	I'm hoping it finishes soon	14:59
Wizzup_	at least, comes around	14:59
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup_: I jusz quoted that instance since I been working inside ST-E at that time, and tried to move sth about the issue with that .h file	15:00
DocScrutinizer05	after dm8tbr told me about it	15:00
DocScrutinizer05	alas Ericsson worked on the LTE modem, not the AP/GFX halve of NovaThor	15:01
DocScrutinizer05	so I couldn't do much	15:01
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FIQ\|n900	hi	15:02
FIQ\|n900	there's one thing I've become tired of regarding the application "mobilehotspot"	15:02
FIQ\|n900	every now and then, seemingly completely random, it simply doesn't start	15:02
FIQ\|n900	the exact error being "ImportError: No module named os"	15:03
FIQ\|n900	the solution is simply rebooting and hope it doesn't happen again	15:03
FIQ\|n900	and if that fails, do it again (though that happens rarely)	15:03
FIQ\|n900	any idea what causes this thing?	15:03
DocScrutinizer05	no	15:03
DocScrutinizer05	share syslog	15:04
FIQ\|n900	sorry?	15:04
DocScrutinizer05	and start mobilehotspot in terminal or with stdout/stderr redirection to a logfile	15:04
psycho_oreos	He basically meant share a log where useful information can probably be extracted. Usually from the likes of dmesg/syslog.	15:04
DocScrutinizer05	yep	15:05
DocScrutinizer05	tnx psycho_oreos	15:05
psycho_oreos	When X happens instead of Y, its always best to run things in terminal, look in all the possible logs/avenues, etc.	15:05
FIQ\|n900	mhm	15:05
psycho_oreos	You don't go, oh its annoying me reboot and hope it goes away.	15:06
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FIQ\|n900	yeah just wasn't sure what he meant with syslog	15:06
DocScrutinizer05	regularly programs spit some diagnostics to stderr or syslog when something inexpected happens	15:06
psycho_oreos	^	15:06
FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: indeed, but this exact issue do get solved by rebooting	15:06
FIQ\|n900	which I found out accidentally once	15:06
FIQ\|n900	and this doesn't make any sense to me	15:06
psycho_oreos	That's where its useful to debug rather than doing nothing until it got annoying.	15:07
DocScrutinizer05	thus: share syslog	15:07
DocScrutinizer05	~pkg	15:07
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/	15:07
DocScrutinizer05	syslog	15:07
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, I don't know, that error almost sounds like some issue with python. Though I'm no programmer.	15:07
DocScrutinizer05	sysklog?	15:07
Sicelo	+d ;)	15:07
psycho_oreos	/var/log/syslog	15:08
DocScrutinizer05	only if sysklogd is installed	15:08
DocScrutinizer05	otherwise dmesg, though it's sub-par	15:08
psycho_oreos	Speaking of dmesg, I found there was a nice perl script to translate those ktimer messages into meaningful syslog lookalike output.	15:09
DocScrutinizer05	and particularly "run-standalone.sh mobilehotspot 2>~/MyDocs/MH.log 1>&2	15:09
DocScrutinizer05	"	15:09
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to import os manually within a python interpreter	15:10
FIQ\|n900	and it fails to find it as well	15:10
FIQ\|n900	so something weird is going on @python	15:10
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DocScrutinizer05	psycho_oreos: cooool	15:11
psycho_oreos	When it did work, where was the "import os" usually sourced from?	15:11
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psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer05, I was going to paste the link, hang on.. I'm going to find it again.	15:11
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer05, http://linuxaria.com/article/how-to-make-dmesg-timestamp-human-readable?lang=en <-- only the perl script works on N900, python variant failed.	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	mhm	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	anyway, I'd probably rather need it on my PC. Thanks a lot	15:12
psycho_oreos	Hehe, oh well, wherever you may find it handy :D	15:13
DocScrutinizer05	(on N900 I got syslog since ~ beginning of times ;-d )	15:13
psycho_oreos	no worries.	15:13
FIQ\|n900	[14:11:09] <psycho_oreos> When it did work, where was the "import os" usually sourced from?	15:13
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FIQ\|n900	I don't know this one atm, so I guess I'll have to reboot into a working MH to find that out? unless you have another solution	15:13
* psycho_oreos has had issues with sysklogd failing to start after what was supposedly an issue trying to optify syslog file and wanting to compress it (to save space).		15:13
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: also honestly I fail to understand exactly how dmesg is helpful in this case	15:14
DocScrutinizer05	lol	15:14
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, I'm no programmer, if it did worked at the time during reboots yeah its probably a way I suppose.	15:14
FIQ\|n900	ohh hooray, that pastebinit script requires os too lol	15:14
psycho_oreos	err I meant after a reboot.	15:14
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: since MH needs kernel support, it may be relevant	15:14
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psycho_oreos	Hmm I think I have pastebinit also installed.. lemme try something as well from my end.	15:15
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FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: but when I earlier (before knowing it required KP) tried to use mobilehotspot in vanilla kernel, the application itself started fine	15:15
FIQ\|n900	it just failed to create a wlan interface, i.e. not same issue as now	15:15
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: I'm not going to discuss the possible error patterns in any app on this level. It's futile	15:16
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DocScrutinizer05	a swift look at syslog is way more ffective, if only to rule out sth odd is going on there	15:16
DocScrutinizer05	to diagnose any arbitrary problem with a process, you generally need: stdout.log, stderr.log, syslog	15:18
DocScrutinizer05	and strace if the aforementioned don't help	15:18
DocScrutinizer05	there's hardly any bug in a program that can't get tracked down following this pattern	15:19
DocScrutinizer05	particularly when it's a bug that causes abort or failure to startup	15:19
FIQ\|n900	as I didn't had syslog installed - http://sprunge.us/MPFe dmesg output	15:19
psycho_oreos	Some programs contains hidden extra parameters that can be shown via strings if the program in question is a binary.	15:19
FIQ\|n900	mobilehotspot is a python script though	15:20
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, dmesg is sub-par, I said it. [ 80.442291] wl1251: down is the only slightly interesting thing in dmesg	15:21
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: in addition I installed sysklogd for future issues for easier debugging	15:21
FIQ\|n900	http://sprunge.us/KcVH mobilehotspot's stderr	15:21
DocScrutinizer05	make sure to every now and then clean out your /var/log/* from obsolete old logs or too large current logs	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	I do that every 3 months or so	15:22
FIQ\|n900	http://sprunge.us/PbBW and the actual mobilehotspot python script (it's small) in case it gives any clues	15:22
psycho_oreos	http://sprunge.us/jjgN <-- my "dpkg -l\| grep python\| pastebinit -b http://sprunge.us" output (if that maybe of certain use), goes to show my python version works with pastebinit.	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: stderr already gives a good clue, no?	15:23
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: yes it does	15:23
FIQ\|n900	but in case mobilehotspot is doing something funny	15:23
FIQ\|n900	doesn't look like it though	15:23
psycho_oreos	Also googling for the exact error phrase may also seem to help as well.	15:25
FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: yes I did this before coming here	15:26
FIQ\|n900	but it didn't turn up anything interesting/relevant	15:26
DocScrutinizer05	err guys, I'm no python crack at all, but I seem to recall a python shebang alsways looks like "#!/bin/env pythonBLAH"	15:28
Wizzup_	/usr/bin/env yeah	15:29
Wizzup_	just installed fcam, rebooted, and I have no /dev/video0 anymore	15:29
Wizzup_	interesting ;-)	15:29
DocScrutinizer05	not "#!/usr/bin/run-standalone.sh python2.5"	15:29
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FIQ\|n900	isn't env used to get the correct path to the python binary?	15:29
DocScrutinizer05	yep, afaik sth like that	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	disclaimer, see above	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	nfc here	15:30
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, the first link from google was from stackoverflow which one suggested about using $PYTHONPATH. Now my "find / -name "os.pyc"" outputs these: /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc \| /usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc \|　/home/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc	15:31
FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: what did you google on? I basically googled the error I pasted above and got no such link	15:32
FIQ\|n900	but yes I can try looking for os.pyc	15:33
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, "ImportError: No module named os" and the link:　http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12320143/python-importerror-no-module-named-os	15:33
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, somewhere something got messed up horribly, most likely a bad kernel module.	15:34
DocScrutinizer05	psycho_oreos: probably the /usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc is a symlink to optified /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5/os.pyc which is a bindmount to /home/opt/	15:34
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer05, yup :) the real python libs would never sit in rootfs anyway considering how limited the space of rootfs is.	15:35
DocScrutinizer05	""Consider setting $PYTHONHOME to <prefix>[:<exec_prefix>]""	15:35
DocScrutinizer05	seems to me like $PYTHONHOME is unset or incorrect	15:36
DocScrutinizer05	nfc why	15:36
DocScrutinizer05	or why it's needed anyway	15:36
DocScrutinizer05	maybe $PATH or $(pwd) is incorrect	15:37
psycho_oreos	I don't have $PYTHONHOME　set as well (no outputs from my N900), though one guy from that link said to put this in their .bashrc: PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6 . Obviously that's the wrong Python version but it seems like its one hackish attempts to rectify the issue.	15:37
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: it would appear so, but I have no clue why	15:37
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Wizzup_	just installed ``FCamera'' from extras-testing, and I am on power kernel 50	15:37
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, it's probably needed when sth is non-standard thus non-default on your pathnames and mounts and whatnot	15:38
DocScrutinizer05	MIGHT again be a fstab issue ;-P	15:38
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, usually a mismatched kernel with kernel modules loaded can cause issues. Other times it would output invalid module format -1 or something. syslog/dmesg output maybe useful here. I'm using kp52 with fcam modules (latest) and no issues from my end though.	15:38
DocScrutinizer05	check for `mount`	15:38
DocScrutinizer05	if the bindmounts for python are there	15:39
psycho_oreos	Yeah that too.	15:39
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: manual modprobe seems to fail with invalid module format	15:40
DocScrutinizer05	for the randomness of the issue, I might figure the new fstab/fsck hack introduced to CSSU-T may fail to bindmount the python mounts when and only when any of the fs needs fsck	15:40
Wizzup_	that is odd	15:40
FIQ\|n900	hmm interesting, I have os.py and os.pyo but not os.pyc in that directory.. and I tried to set PYTHONPATH manually (it was not set before - just tried) and it successfully imported that module, however now it errors on another module... will try to see where it is in case I need something else in that path as well	15:41
psycho_oreos	http://sprunge.us/IdCF <-- my mount output, if you'll excuse my excessive use of ext3 here ahem :)	15:41
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup_: zhere's a --ignore-vermagic OWTTE option to modprobe	15:41
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, That's the reason why :)	15:41
FIQ\|n900	s/- just tried/- as seen on echo $PYTHONPATH/	15:41
infobot	FIQ\|n900 meant: hmm interesting, I have os.py and os.pyo but not os.pyc in that directory.. and I tried to set PYTHONPATH manually (it was not set before - as seen on echo $PYTHONPATH) and it successfully imported that module, however now it errors on another module... w...	15:41
Wizzup_	thx,will be back soon	15:42
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, I'd also start checking on mount as DocScrutinizer05 pointed out.	15:43
FIQ\|n900	yes which I just did	15:43
FIQ\|n900	in addition, the mounts @python seems to have no issues, see http://sprunge.us/IYWL	15:43
DocScrutinizer05	strange	15:45
DocScrutinizer05	you start to qualify for a strace session ;-)	15:45
* psycho_oreos ponders if the issue might also be to do with older versions of python libraries (hence lacking the necessary facility within their respective postinst) to work properly.		15:45
FIQ\|n900	(non-localized http://sprunge.us/eeRh )	15:46
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: not needed ;-D	15:46
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to reinstall all python packages in case something was messed up	15:46
FIQ\|n900	and interestingly it did not go all well	15:46
psycho_oreos	Ahh the only difference is what was written on top, not needed :) I know what the content says :D.	15:47
DocScrutinizer05	yep	15:47
FIQ\|n900	[14:46:39] <FIQ\|n900> DocScrutinizer05: also I tried to reinstall all python packages in case something was messed up - like that optfs restoration yesterday	15:47
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, that's your answer.	15:47
psycho_oreos	<FIQ\|n900> and interestingly it did not go all well <--- That could be the source of the issues.	15:47
FIQ\|n900	yes	15:47
FIQ\|n900	will paste apt results sec	15:47
psycho_oreos	I somewhat would also like to think the issues with these are happening is also because you nuked /opt. It sort of makes programs walk on "broken tiles".	15:50
* DocScrutinizer05 suddenly feels sick, considering that some python programs might now (after fstab hack) run before possibly deferred bindmount of *python 'volumes'		15:50
* psycho_oreos thinks in either case FIQ\|n900 is on the way to creating a zombified version of maemo. :)		15:51
psycho_oreos	Lots of hits and misses. I'm guessing python won't be the only solitary issue though.	15:52
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FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: though this issue did exist before optfs restoration as well - but then the reinstall might have worked a little better	15:53
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, outstanding issue? o.O	15:55
FIQ\|n900	and at least I don't think I can make it worse, if anything, better	15:55
FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: the optfs restoration was due to a corrupt file system	15:55
FIQ\|n900	itself caused by me not realizing that hard shutdowns might be a bad idea... lol	15:56
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, Yeah I know but you had the issue prior to nuking /opt. So it was virtually an issue that you didn't bother to resolve beforehand.	15:56
FIQ\|n900	yeah	15:56
FIQ\|n900	http://sprunge.us/cdAE apt log	15:57
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* psycho_oreos recalls having mount warnings with his microSD about unclean mounts. It was only after.. what, 30+ fsck.ext3 that finally yielded a clean result with the majority of the nokia maps file being corrupted.		15:58
FIQ\|n900	if microSD is ext3, maemo gives an error on mount	15:58
FIQ\|n900	unless you're running a fairly recent version of cssu	15:59
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DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: delete all *.pyc	15:59
psycho_oreos	At that time I think I was (somewhat), though I　had extra mount params like errors=mount-ro.	15:59
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FIQ\|n900	uh huh now that's strange	16:00
psycho_oreos	Hmm the warnings from apt log. Doesn't make much sense when /opt was nuked anyway.	16:00
FIQ\|n900	looking through that log	16:00
FIQ\|n900	reinstall gave lot less errors this time	16:00
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DocScrutinizer05	>>Some bytecompiled files may be left behind.<< is the key	16:01
DocScrutinizer05	I bet	16:01
* psycho_oreos doesn't think there would really be any bytecompiled files be left on a nuked /opt. Though if you restored from an older opt.tar that could be a potential issue.		16:01
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: last install it blamed on various modules not being found during the installation	16:01
psycho_oreos	Yeah that's usually the result of you nuking /opt :)	16:02
DocScrutinizer05	if you got an obsolete .pyc in some place prior in $(PYTHON)PATH than the new .py, you inevitably run into trouble	16:02
FIQ\|n900	had to reinstall again to give a meaningful paste	16:02
FIQ\|n900	in case anyone wonders why I'm implying I did it twice	16:02
FIQ\|n900	including the above mentioned os, and some others as well	16:02
psycho_oreos	Probably a good idea at the time would be to forcibly remove dead packages and reinstall them. That way apt won't complain (well hopefully).	16:02
FIQ\|n900	er, last line was @ [15:01:56] <FIQ\|n900> DocScrutinizer05: last install it blamed on various modules not being found during the installation	16:03
FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: hmm maybe	16:03
FIQ\|n900	that's interesting	16:04
psycho_oreos	Well in either case I'd say go with DocScrutinizer05's suggestion. Clean out old python stuff (after removing python) and then reinstall python again.	16:04
FIQ\|n900	the first reinstall didn't solve anything - the second reinstall seems to have solved everything	16:04
psycho_oreos	That should get rid of the leftover junk and start fresh... well hopefully.	16:04
FIQ\|n900	because now stuff seem to work	16:04
psycho_oreos	Partially, remember that you had to use $PYTHONHOME because it could not find os.pyc.	16:05
FIQ\|n900	yes true	16:05
DocScrutinizer05	which is odd	16:05
psycho_oreos	All that leftover ancient files could cause the confusion.	16:05
DocScrutinizer05	*.pyc, yes	16:06
FIQ\|n900	but DocScrutinizer05	16:06
FIQ\|n900	don't know if you saw me mention it earlier	16:06
FIQ\|n900	but I didn't have any .pyc files in that directory before	16:06
psycho_oreos	No guarantees/recommendations here because you do realise you are trying to do something that probably hardly any users have encountered :)	16:06
DocScrutinizer05	that's the whole point	16:06
FIQ\|n900	(though I did have .py and .pyo files)	16:07
psycho_oreos	Its the leftover junk/cruft.	16:07
DocScrutinizer05	you possibly got some in some other dir	16:07
psycho_oreos	It also could be the issue with restoring old opt.tar. I'm sure it works but to a lesser extent it does.	16:07
FIQ\|n900	(though now I have some as I reinstalled)	16:07
FIQ\|n900	so basically	16:07
DocScrutinizer05	and I have nfc what's .pyo, probably something similar to .pyc	16:08
FIQ\|n900	I should remove all .pyc files, including the newly created files	16:08
FIQ\|n900	and reinstall all python packages again?	16:08
psycho_oreos	iinm, .pyo is compiled (binary blob) of .pyc.	16:08
psycho_oreos	Probably uninstall python first (if you could and to make it not uninstall other packages that depends on python like for instance mobilehotspot).	16:09
DocScrutinizer05	afaik .pyc is compiled with symbolic names, while .pyo is compiled w/o symbols	16:09
DocScrutinizer05	anyway both are dynamically created by python interpreter afaik	16:09
psycho_oreos	Ahh I tend to think .pyc is more human readable than .pyo. .pyo is all literally machine code (hence compiled).	16:09
psycho_oreos	Remove python packages via apt (hopefully.. or use dpkg if you can somehow make it not uninstall MH), then clean out remaining python junk left in /opt/python. Then reinstall python through apt.	16:10
psycho_oreos	That might be the best idea imho.	16:10
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DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	16:11
psycho_oreos	Don't remove stuff in /opt/python then remove via dpkg/apt.. you'll make dpkg/apt even more messed up about python stuff, let them know that you don't want python junk so when it comes to reinstalling it will know from its own database that you have previously removed it.	16:12
DocScrutinizer05	iirc there's a --purge parameter to some of that apt/dpkg stuff	16:13
FIQ\|n900	remove or purge?	16:13
FIQ\|n900	@ dpkg	16:13
DocScrutinizer05	prolly useful here	16:13
psycho_oreos	nods purge is probably more cleaner.	16:13
psycho_oreos	I'd also make sure neither of them complain about removing things like MH which depends on python that is to be removed.	16:14
psycho_oreos	Whichever you choose, purge would be cleaner iinm.	16:14
Pali	hello, any qt guru here? I need output backtrace when some signal is emitted. Any idea if qt has some object/slot for that?	16:14
psycho_oreos	Or even remove, then purge, purge just gets rid of leftover conf files for instance.	16:14
psycho_oreos	Pali, not sure but you can try #qt. According to alis, there's 505 users/bots in that channel.	16:17
Pali	ok	16:17
Pali	I know only about GNU/linux backtrace() function in execinfo.h (man 3 backtrace)	16:18
* psycho_oreos hopes they can fix the issue rather than pointing you back into channels like these :) where its all maemo/meego centric and there's no active Qt gurus active (or at least it seems).		16:18
* psycho_oreos has very vague information about all of what you said :/ lol. Not a developer so most of this is really flying above my head.		16:19
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psycho_oreos	o.O	16:19
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FIQ\|n900	ok, everything was removed fine apart from some directories (the bindmounted ones)	16:21
FIQ\|n900	w/o manual intervention required	16:21
FIQ\|n900	now installing again	16:21
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, don't forget to purge and manually remove any leftover cruft/junk.	16:22
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FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: everything was removed as I said, checked all python directories	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	psycho_oreos: o.O indeed. Pali has strange habits	16:23
FIQ\|n900	(the directories themselves was left intact due to bindmounts and I left them like that as I don't want reinstalling them to fill my rootfs	16:24
FIQ\|n900	)	16:24
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psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, ok that's good. Just don't want to hear apt/dpkg complaining again all of the sudden. Its only wild guesses from here on in, into fixing python.	16:25
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer05, heh do tell me :D	16:25
FIQ\|n900	python installation gave no errors this time	16:26
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, I have for some wild guess those bind mounts may get recreated once you installed base python stuff.	16:26
FIQ\|n900	psycho_oreos: well dpkg -P attempted to remove the directories - failing due to bindmounts	16:26
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: for bindmounts see pymaemo-optify - PyMaemo optification package	16:26
FIQ\|n900	so my assumption is that apt would not redo the bindmounts	16:27
psycho_oreos	FIQ\|n900, ahh	16:27
psycho_oreos	Seems like DocScrutinizer05 has pointed out a vital clue here as well.	16:27
DocScrutinizer05	was some real fun when that pkg got propagated	16:28
DocScrutinizer05	must've been back in time when PR1.2 came out	16:28
FIQ\|n900	hmm	16:29
FIQ\|n900	I wonder if there's a quick straightforward way to ask apt about missing files in every single package	16:29
FIQ\|n900	so I would be able to clean up after that optfs thing	16:29
DocScrutinizer05	err, there is some tool doing that	16:29
DocScrutinizer05	nfc if it's apt or some supplementary tool though, or even dpkg-*	16:30
FIQ\|n900	simply looking for runaway symlinks isn't enough as some packages install themselves to /opt directly	16:30
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	16:30
DocScrutinizer05	a really annoying habit	16:30
DocScrutinizer05	I had a real dispute with iirc shapeshifter about alarmed NOT installing a symlink	16:31
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DocScrutinizer05	I consider that a flaw for a cmdline tool to not be available anywhere in usual $PATH	16:31
DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:/etc# ll `which alarmed`	16:32
DocScrutinizer05	lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 23 2011-06-20 15:53 /usr/bin/alarmed -> /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py	16:32
DocScrutinizer05	had to create that myself	16:32
FIQ\|n900	also sorry for being clueless occasionally with some stuff regarding things like this	16:32
DocScrutinizer05	no reason for feeling sorry	16:33
FIQ\|n900	DocScrutinizer05: heh	16:33
DocScrutinizer05	we all started learning about that stuff	16:33
DocScrutinizer05	some time	16:33
FIQ\|n900	N900 was my first serious step into slightly more complex parts of linux, i.e. before I got a n900 I barely knew what "cd" did lol	16:34
FIQ\|n900	oh well, afk	16:34
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: you're clearly willing to learn. so it's a please to help you	16:35
DocScrutinizer05	a pleasure*	16:35
psycho_oreos	I'm sure whilst you are experimenting with what we have suggested, we too are in the process of learning as well.	16:35
DocScrutinizer05	sure	16:35
DocScrutinizer05	which is why we're all in here doing what we do, isn't it?	16:36
psycho_oreos	Its not exactly a "one way street" where we knew what the answer was and could give you a direct answer.	16:36
psycho_oreos	yup :)	16:36
DocScrutinizer05	~question	16:36
infobot	methinks question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html	16:36
DocScrutinizer05	has some nice chapters about that	16:37
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DocScrutinizer05	it's a recommended read even for experienced hackers	16:37
psycho_oreos	dpkg -S I found tells me what files belongs to which package. Though I haven't found a single command that could do it easily. If you could get "find" to output broken symlinks then you maybe able to get dpkg -S to show which broken symlink belonged to which deb.	16:37
DocScrutinizer05	I try to read it at least twice a year	16:37
psycho_oreos	hehe I've read that page numerous times, very interesting stuff even though not everyone follows it closely.	16:38
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DocScrutinizer05	it's hard to follow it closely, but it gives you a perspective each time you read it	16:39
psycho_oreos	I get a little annoyed when people just say "X is broken" "please help", and then you have to start digging clues out of them to get a basic/general understanding of their setup.	16:39
Lava_Croft	people who says X is broken are correct	16:40
psycho_oreos	Also I guess its also a good reminder to ask questions the "right" way as well.	16:40
Lava_Croft	and it cant be helped	16:40
psycho_oreos	Its not the program can't be helped, its more like an issue with pebkac ;)	16:40
DocScrutinizer05	http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#idp5285344	16:40
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psycho_oreos	Yeah I've sometimes thought of that as well, but it can get a little irritating when you're also dealing with a situation on hand from your end as well and there's nobody else responding.	16:42
psycho_oreos	At times certain commands "collide" when you're helping others on X distro when you're on Y distro.	16:43
psycho_oreos	Having to think what the command "equivalent" was to match their case.	16:44
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* psycho_oreos thinks right now there might be a hackish way to output dpkg -L\| echo $i\| find $i when say for instance under archlinux, pacman -Ql by default lists the name of the package along with the files owned by that package.		16:45
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DocScrutinizer05	yep, you can craft some cmdline wizardry	16:47
DocScrutinizer05	but you also can talk the person you try to help thru using all the tools actually available	16:47
psycho_oreos	That and the sort of "hackers" way to fix things ;) hackish attempts	16:48
DocScrutinizer05	example of a useful cmdline wizardry: man md\|less +"/If an array is created"	16:49
psycho_oreos	The power of pipe combined with BASH scripting ;)	16:50
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DocScrutinizer05	you wouldn't want to talk the helpee thru less(1) basics	16:51
DocScrutinizer05	or tell them "look at line 255 of `man md´"	16:52
psycho_oreos	In that case I guess grep maybe useful here ;)	16:53
DocScrutinizer05	nah, not really unless you want to "quote" a very strictly defined limited section out of some text	16:53
DocScrutinizer05	man md\|less +"/If an array is created" -j 9	16:55
psycho_oreos	Yeah that would be a little difficult.	16:55
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psycho_oreos	I just searched, there's dpkg -C but doubt it's usefulness.	16:56
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DocScrutinizer05	man bash\|less +"/^[^a-z]*SIGNALS"	17:00
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Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: so I guess you have kernel-power from extras-devel?	17:17
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, yup	17:18
Wizzup_	as well as fcam	17:18
Wizzup_	okay, I'll try that, does blessn900 work with that fcam driver?	17:18
psycho_oreos	afaik yes.	17:19
Wizzup_	(I really just want blessn900, but I guess I can upgrade the power kernel)	17:19
psycho_oreos	You might be able to just get away with newer fcam-drivers insntead of new power kernel. Though I'm not sure.	17:20
Wizzup_	tbh I don't understand why the current ``stable'' fcam driver don't work with my power kernel	17:20
Wizzup_	doesn't*	17:20
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psycho_oreos	Which version do you have just curiously.	17:21
Wizzup_	2.6.28.10-power50	17:22
psycho_oreos	Err my bad not kp version, fcam-drivers version.	17:22
Wizzup_	0.7.1 I think, let me check	17:23
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Wizzup_	http://maemo.org/packages/view/fcam-drivers/ shows why there's a -2	17:24
Wizzup_	just not sure for what powerkernel that is	17:24
mancha	ok folks. my n800 suddenly stoped working. it turns on and seems to boot but the screen just cycles though some weird vertical stripes then a flash on the whole screen then black	17:24
psycho_oreos	dpkg -l fcam-drivers\| awk '{ print $3 }'	17:24
mancha	the only thing i did was charge it several times last night. ideas?	17:25
psycho_oreos	What did you do before this issue started happening?	17:25
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: 1.0.7-1	17:25
mancha	downloaded some maps last nite in maemo mapper. that's it.	17:26
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, that should work with kp50 afaik. It works with kp52 but its been awhile since I　looked into what could be the issue.	17:26
Wizzup_	I'll upgrade kp	17:26
* psycho_oreos doesn't know if that'll necessarily fix the problems though.		17:27
Wizzup_	ah, I should move on with my uinput-mapper package soon...	17:27
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: we'll see	17:27
mancha	help!	17:28
psycho_oreos	Some files within kp (at least 52) has kernel version specific fcam provided kernel drivers. I'm not sure have they been merged.	17:28
psycho_oreos	mancha, I misread :/ I thought it was N900 you are talking about not N800. I was going to suggest it could be issue with bootlooping and low battery. I don't have N800 so I don't know I'm afraid.	17:29
mancha	could i have fried my battery?	17:29
psycho_oreos	Unlikely unless you charged your battery with some other device.	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	mancha: possible, but i'm afraid your problem is more severe than that	17:30
mancha	DocScrutinizer05: how can the thing just go bad all of a sudden?	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	like all things do	17:30
mancha	is there some kind of safe boot?	17:31
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DocScrutinizer05	err, not that I know of	17:31
DocScrutinizer05	I don't own N800 though	17:31
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: hm, extras-devel is suggesting 51r1	17:31
DocScrutinizer05	what battery does N800 use?	17:32
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, grr at whoever is playing with the repository you can probably install kp52 from Pali's own repository or manually.	17:32
mancha	bp-5l	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	what when you plug it into charger?	17:33
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: my ``Distribution'' is set to fremantle-1.3, I hope that makes sense	17:33
mancha	nothing	17:33
DocScrutinizer05	:-/	17:33
Wizzup_	that's the only think I can imagine that may be different	17:33
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, I don't think that would be relevant. Its the issue with the repository still showing 51r1. looks at his fapman repository configuration.	17:35
Wizzup_	aha	17:35
psycho_oreos	I wouldn't recommend using fapman either :)	17:35
Wizzup_	no, people told me this a few years ago	17:35
Wizzup_	;-)	17:35
mancha	DocScrutinizer05: it's the batter.	17:36
* psycho_oreos issues an update and checks via apt-cache on kp52.		17:36
DocScrutinizer05	mancha: glad to hear that	17:36
psycho_oreos	mancha, so a replacement battery worked?	17:37
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DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup_: that may make a friggin lot of difference, since during migration#1 the fremantle vs fremantle-1.3 duality got messed up	17:38
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: getting fcam-drivers from devel worked	17:38
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mancha	no, but aside from the screen, the bootup sound is faint.	17:38
psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, 1.0.7-2??	17:38
Wizzup_	DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I recall setting it to -1.3 was the right thing to do, I think I did it properly	17:38
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: yes	17:38
mancha	it seems like it's not getting the right charge...i bet i fried the battery by leaving it plugged in all night	17:38
Wizzup_	psycho_oreos: which is also kind of what his change message says	17:39
DocScrutinizer05	Wizzup_: the sad truth is: right now there is no "right" setting	17:39
Wizzup_	at http://maemo.org/packages/view/fcam-drivers/	17:39
Wizzup_	DocScrutinizer05: nice ;-)	17:39
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	17:39
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psycho_oreos	Wizzup_, nods I thought that was just some custom one I built (when I was tinkering with abc). I never knew that was in extras-devel.	17:39
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DocScrutinizer05	fremantle-1.3 used to be a symlink to fremantle	17:40
DocScrutinizer05	during migration#1 that got messed up, just doing a mirror or whatever of the repo, and that created TWO repos: fremantle and fremantle-1.3	17:40
mancha	do0es a dead battery sound plausible?	17:41
Wizzup_	heh	17:41
psycho_oreos	mancha, I guess it goes back to what DocScrutinizer05 said earlier, sounds like its more severe. I guess there's probably multiple issues, though one step at a time helps I guess.	17:41
DocScrutinizer05	up to anybody's guess which action adresses which repo, also in autobuilder and repo-management	17:41
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psycho_oreos	mancha, its hard to say :) two of us has admitted we don't own N800, so its hard to know what the problem is if we don't know much about it.	17:42
mancha	psycho_oreos: why do you both assume something more seirous?	17:42
psycho_oreos	mancha, to me personally the colour stripes showing on the screen before going black. Prior to that you installed a maps software, it might also be screen playing up but hard to know.	17:43
DocScrutinizer05	mancha: because bad battery usually doesn't cause atrifacts on screen	17:43
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psycho_oreos	What happens if you tried plugging the charger in whilst having the "dead/bad battery" in place? Does N800 still boot?	17:44
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DocScrutinizer05	afaik N8x0 should kinda work with a battery of any quality and charge, as long as plugged into charger	17:45
psycho_oreos	Yeah I thought of the same thing as well. At least on N900 you can see the nokia logo before it dies and tries to go back into emergency charge mode.	17:46
DocScrutinizer05	it might shut down with battery-low or battery-defect signal	17:46
DocScrutinizer05	but I never heard of artifacts on screen	17:46
psycho_oreos	Or the battery is simply too faulty that it fails to even allow charging when power is plugged in.	17:47
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DocScrutinizer05	as usual, a comlete reflash might help to distinguish hw from any sw problems	17:47
psycho_oreos	Either way, its weird but its beyond my knowledge... I'm virtually stabbing in the dark here.	17:47
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DocScrutinizer05	or you just get a replacement battery	17:48
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DocScrutinizer05	and check if things change	17:48
mancha	well you guys are a very pessimistic bunch. you're real downers.	17:48
psycho_oreos	One step at a time :)	17:48
psycho_oreos	mancha, do you have a better suggestion as to what it might be? :)	17:48
DocScrutinizer05	no, we aren't	17:48
mancha	"i don't own an n800 so i have no fucking clue what's up but i'll just pull out my ass it's super serious" :)	17:48
DocScrutinizer05	~joerg	17:49
infobot	joerg is, like, a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, now mainly involved in maintenance of maemo and N900. Usually known as DocScrutinizer	17:49
psycho_oreos	We've given you a likely scenario on N900's case.	17:49
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DocScrutinizer05	mancha: I'm just stating that I don't have N800 to make clear my statements are based on N810 and N900 and general knowledge of embedded hardware	17:50
psycho_oreos	The least you could do is try to solve the problem one at a time, first plug it into wall charger with battery in place. If it still doesn't boot, get a replacement battery, if it doesn't boot its probably the screen at fault (or others).	17:50
mancha	ok, if the battery got fried, it's old. and the cells leaked, can this not be providing less volage/amperage than is needed to power the lcd display?	17:50
mancha	question for the EE :)	17:50
DocScrutinizer05	yes	17:51
DocScrutinizer05	still no chance to create artifacts, on all embedded devices I know	17:51
mancha	why not?	17:51
psycho_oreos	Probably because of the way its designed I gather.	17:51
DocScrutinizer05	because hw doesn't work that way usually, unless my colleagues messed up N800 fubar	17:51
DocScrutinizer05	and I've seen similar artifacts caused by other hw defects	17:52
DocScrutinizer05	but never by battery	17:52
DocScrutinizer05	actually your error description is very similar to what you get on N900 when flex connector is broken	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	now the N800 doesn't have a flex connector for all I know	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	since it doesn't have a slide-out kbd	17:54
DocScrutinizer05	anyway N8x0 battery charging is notorious fubar, and I suggest you get a spare battery to check	17:54
psycho_oreos	The very least you could do is try the suggestion I mention beforehand. I'm not an EE, I don't own a N800 but I'm giving you advice from what a N900 user would try otherwise.	17:55
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mancha	it boots.	17:55
mancha	but i can't see anything cause the screen is fucked.	17:56
psycho_oreos	If it boots with power in place, then its probably a faulty battery.	17:56
mancha	cmon dude.	17:56
psycho_oreos	Yeah sounds like possible multiple issues.	17:56
DocScrutinizer05	no, when LCD still fux0red then it's a hw defect	17:56
mancha	no way	17:56
psycho_oreos	mancha, what do you think it is? that it is our fault?	17:56
mancha	look, multiple issues don't just happen out of the blue at the same time. sorry that dog don't hunt.	17:56
mancha	if the multiple issues are related somehow then i'll bite, otherwise it's just nonsense.	17:57
psycho_oreos	I hate to say this but N800 is an aging device.	17:57
DocScrutinizer05	he meant multiple alternative causes	17:57
mancha	oh i see.	17:57
psycho_oreos	N900 is facing the same path as well.	17:57
mancha	that's irrelevant whether it's an aging device.	17:57
psycho_oreos	Electronics generally don't last forever.	17:57
mancha	i've not used it much and more important are usage cycles.	17:58
DocScrutinizer05	well	17:58
DocScrutinizer05	get a damn spare battery!	17:58
SAiF	lol	17:59
psycho_oreos	I know old PSU outputs less power gradually over time before the machine (should the motherboard be intelligent enough) to prevent the machine from booting if PSU is simply not outputting enough power. That's one use case with aging electronics from what I　know.	17:59
mancha	DocScrutinizer05: trying to find a store now.	17:59
mancha	the battery is prolly 10 years old	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	reasonably considered dead	17:59
psycho_oreos	Batteries also doesn't last forever as well.. the case is very evident when it comes to laptops.	17:59
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psycho_oreos	You don't see a 10 year old laptop with 10 year old battery working like brand spanking new from the shops.	18:00
DocScrutinizer05	but honestly when your device boots up and acts in reasonable ways to input, just doesn't display on LCD anymore, then you do _not_ have battery issue	18:01
mancha	it sorta boots, sometimes faint boot sound othertimes nothing	18:01
DocScrutinizer05	when your device shuts down any time, by whatever nasty procedure, then you might have a battery problem	18:01
psycho_oreos	I'm sure almost every PC technician goes by the general rule of thumb, and that is to try one thing at a time.. if this doesn't work try that, if that doesn't work try another.	18:01
mancha	i think it's on last legs	18:01
psycho_oreos	There's no secret about debugging hardware issues.	18:02
mancha	DocScrutinizer05: does the n800 have the ability to run batteryless (plugged in)	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	generally not	18:02
mancha	ok	18:02
mancha	so can't test that way...	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	nope	18:02
mancha	best buy has no bp-5l's	18:02
mancha	the fuck	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	otherwise we had suggested to you already	18:03
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psycho_oreos	To be frank I would leave DocScrutinizer05 to answer that one, I personally don't know of anyone that owns N800 out where I live. I've only seen very few N900 owners.	18:05
DocScrutinizer05	N810 (BP-4) works with BL-5J as well, when you press it to the contacts	18:05
DocScrutinizer05	(BP-4L)	18:05
mancha	ok folks, you've been very helpful and i've been crabby (pissed at my "broken" hw)	18:06
mancha	i'll get a replacement battery and start there.	18:06
DocScrutinizer05	I feel with you	18:06
mancha	if that doesn't work, then it's game over right? nokia won't service this dinosaur, yes?	18:06
DocScrutinizer05	see if you maybe borrow a battery from another device that has identical battery contacts	18:07
psycho_oreos	We all will probably go into denial at first with aging stuff. Its inevitable as we try to clamber on the remains.	18:07
mancha	i tried from my phone and the contacts don't line up :/	18:07
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DocScrutinizer05	they won't service it anymore I guess. But it can't hurt to ask - if worst case hits you	18:07
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psycho_oreos	You might be able to source N800 screen and go from there. The only question from here on in lies in how much money will you want to fork in on the device alone to resurrect it.	18:08
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DocScrutinizer05	mancha: I'd almost bet BP-4L and BP-5L have identical battery contacts, so BL-5J should work for you as well. It can be found in quite a number of devices from Nokia	18:09
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DocScrutinizer05	mancha: just carefully compare writing on your battery and on spare other model battery for same "signals" on same pins (GND or (-), (+), and some "BSI" or whatever on middle contact probably)	18:11
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DocScrutinizer05	oops nope!!!	18:11
* psycho_oreos imagines a few years ahead in time one will probably see N900 dying/withering away.		18:12
DocScrutinizer05	on middle is GND/-	18:12
DocScrutinizer05	the "BSI" is opposite of (+)	18:12
DocScrutinizer05	(+) is on corner of battery, BSI to the center	18:13
DocScrutinizer05	you also can tell GND/- contact in device - it's a tiny bit longer than other two	18:13
DocScrutinizer05	mmmpf, on N810 both + and - are longer, and BSI is the only shorter one	18:14
DocScrutinizer05	probably same on N900	18:15
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DocScrutinizer05	anyway, good luck	18:15
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mancha	it's not the battery	18:17
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psycho_oreos	So now the case continues on possibly the screen being the issue.. either the screen or otherwise.	18:18
psycho_oreos	Err the screen, its connectors or otherwise.	18:18
mancha	i have a bootloader on it. wonder if i should reflash with factory	18:18
psycho_oreos	The idea of reflashing was suggested earlier on by DocScrutinizer05.	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	when it's only the screen then you probably can reflash	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	if it's only software then you can reflash	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	if it's some problem with main hw components like CPU/SoC then you will face severe problems no matter what you try to do	18:20
DocScrutinizer05	mancha: how did you make sure it's not the battery?	18:20
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mancha	i connected a gps battery which is also 3.7 volts and if i held it in place the contacts touched.	18:23
mancha	the thing boots the same way...with artifacts.	18:23
mancha	i will try reflashing now.	18:24
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Apic	Good Luck.	18:24
DocScrutinizer05	yes, that rules out battery	18:24
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DocScrutinizer05	~flashing	18:26
infobot	i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:26
DocScrutinizer05	for you: http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Updating_the_firmware&oldid=17120	18:26
DocScrutinizer05	you can use flasher-3.5 nevertheless	18:27
mancha	reflash was successful and problem is unfixed.	18:31
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mancha	the thing's bricked	18:33
Apic	B-(	18:34
psycho_oreos	Bricked? o.O	18:35
mancha	well i didn't brick it in the flash	18:35
mancha	i mean the flash was successful and the problem remains.	18:35
DocScrutinizer05	well, LCD or controller od SoC's video engine defect	18:35
mancha	and that can just go bad?	18:36
mancha	out of the fuckin' blue?	18:36
DocScrutinizer05	or sth as simple as connectors	18:36
psycho_oreos	I believe someone mentioned with electronics, its either 1 or 0, Alive or dead, there's no in-between.	18:37
DocScrutinizer05	yes, chips can go defect in an instant	18:37
Apic	Sad.	18:37
psycho_oreos	Inevitably electronics are what humans made. Inperfect as they are just as we are inperfect ourselves.	18:38
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psycho_oreos	s/inp/imp/	18:40
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: Inevitably electronics are what humans made. Inperfect as they are just as we are imperfect ourselves.	18:40
psycho_oreos	bah, case sensitive.	18:40
DocScrutinizer05	and you forgot /g anyway	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	abcabcabcabc	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	s/b/B/	18:41
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: aBcabcabcabc	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	s/b/B/g	18:41
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: aBcaBcaBcaBc	18:41
mancha	well. thanks all. this sucks. i'll go sulk now.	18:41
mancha	be well.	18:42
psycho_oreos	aBcabcAbc	18:42
psycho_oreos	s/a/A/g	18:42
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: ABcAbcAbc	18:42
psycho_oreos	shrugs	18:42
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psycho_oreos	mancha, there's still hope. you could try with another LCD to see if its LCD that's faulty or if its really the SoC video engine dead.	18:43
psycho_oreos	bah.	18:43
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Guest45047	hi how to change font in nokia n900??	18:58
Guest45047	anyone here?	18:59
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qwerty123	changing font on nokia n900??	19:04
qwerty123	?? anyone here/	19:07
brzys	Nope	19:07
Apic	Yes, but no Idea how to change the Font.	19:07
Apic	It's normal X11, so it should not be _too_ difficult.	19:07
Apic	I think the Terminal App has Functionality to change the Font it uses.	19:08
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qwerty123	theme customizer changes the font. but i need to change the font of the textbox in vkb	19:08
qwerty123	rest, as far as i can see, font has been changed xcpt for the textbox of vkb	19:09
psycho_oreos	Have you tried searching/posting thread on tmo as well?	19:12
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DocScrutinizer05	DAMN!! was it THAT qwerty123?	21:32
DocScrutinizer05	prolly not	21:32
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DocScrutinizer05	I also guess he been called qwerty12	21:33
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psycho_oreos	I somehow doubt it'll be him. (qwerty12)	21:34
DocScrutinizer05	yeah	21:34
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kerio	dat freenode	21:38
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DocScrutinizer05	uh?	21:46
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FIQ\|n900	hi	22:27
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FIQ\|n900	well this os issue I had earlier	22:27
FIQ\|n900	was apparently caused solely by the optfs restoration	22:27
FIQ\|n900	because, now, the "normal" issue of that just returned	22:27
FIQ\|n900	i.e. the one where reboots solved it	22:28
FIQ\|n900	set PYTHONHOME manually	22:28
FIQ\|n900	nothing	22:28
FIQ\|n900	I checked the lib directory in case it was missing	22:28
FIQ\|n900	and found something interesting - there was nothing there	22:28
FIQ\|n900	checked mountpoints	22:28
FIQ\|n900	and for some reason python failed to be mounted correctly, because all python mountpoints isn't there (none is)	22:30
FIQ\|n900	i.e. the bindmounts to /opt/pymaemo	22:30
FIQ\|n900	issuing "mount" fixes this issue	22:30
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FIQ\|n900	but what causes it in first place?	22:30
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FIQ\|n900	I also noticed that this was the first time (since then) where the clock was reset to jan 1	22:33
FIQ\|n900	perhaps that's related in some way?	22:33
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FredrIQ\|n900	hi again	22:44
FredrIQ\|n900	http://sprunge.us/fJJc perhaps that can give any clue to why python stuff isn't mounted occasionally but I don't know	22:44
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FredrIQ\|n900	(also, if you know a better method to get a single session than cat -n syslog \| grep syslog, see the relevant line number, and do cat syslog \| tail -n +4890 \| pastebin, that would be nice to know of lol)	22:46
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FredrIQ\|n900	the last reboot was fully clean (battery died, I swapped battery, and started up again)	22:51
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-leguin.freenode.net- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp		22:55
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FredrIQ\|n900	uh huh?	22:59
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DocScrutinizer05	freenode has issues it seems	23:17
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FIQ\|n900	so.. any ideas regarding my issue?	23:31
FIQ\|n900	dunno wtf happened with freenode lol	23:31
nox-	stupid kids	23:34
nox-	would be my guess	23:34
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