IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-06-26

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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: maybe a nice plan, but probably those doing that work are too busy to do even more than the tiny bit of advertising already done in >>tracking issues and events with infra migration#2<< thread on tmo. And I for one will definitely stay away from twitter and facebook00:07
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, yeah, kinda what I was thinking.00:31
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GeneralAntillesSomebody should probably still register a maemo00:37
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GeneralAntilles.Org account.00:37
GeneralAntillesStupid VKB00:37
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bjvAnyone else checking out Ubuntu Touch?04:31
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bjv decided to check it out yesterday04:40
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bjvlesson #1) Android drivers seems to be compiled in, could not rmmod wlan module04:45
bjv*i disable wifi/etc. daily while driving around a military post, had to settle for ifconfig wlan0 down04:48
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GI_Jackubuntu is going to be a semi-open platform like android05:32
GI_JackI'd give it a second look if it had some sort of vertical intergration with ubuntu desktop05:32
bjvonly limiting factor appears to be qt505:33
GI_Jackwhy QT5?05:33
bjvall GUI in ubuntu touch is qt5, there is no support for X11 or GTK at all yet05:33
GI_Jackit is going to be MIR, and other non-standard bits it has, and whatever compromises they have to make05:33
bjvno mir yet on this 24June build05:34
GI_Jackthey did announce XMir, that will run x11 apps and legacy desktops05:34
GI_Jackwhich is going to be worthless, when modern systems start targeting wayland, and X11 becomes legacy05:34
bjvoh did they?05:34
GI_Jackdo you even /.05:35
bjvi was expecting them to use mir as an inbetween step to wayland05:35
GI_JackI wonder if ubuntu touch is even going to include glibc or something compatable05:35
GI_Jackbjv, no, just like upstart wasn't an inbetween to systemd05:35
GI_Jackmabey redhat should make a phone05:35
GI_Jackthat I'd be intrested in, redhat enterprise cell phone05:36
bjvthis ubuntu touch is running.. libc6:armhf      2.17-0ubuntu505:36
GI_Jackno shit05:36
bjvGNU C05:36
GI_Jackit shouldn't be too hard to port gtk then05:37
bjvubuntu-terminal-app                                  0.5bzr15saucy005:37
bjvi'm more likely to write a qt5 frontend05:37
bjvfor anything i want GUI05:37
GI_Jackof course05:37
bjvbecause it's all hinged on Mir05:37
GI_Jackthe rest of the world is leaning towards Qt in general05:37
bjvor waiting for xMir05:37
GI_Jackbut I am talking about getting existing GTK+ apps to work05:37
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GI_Jackthe big draw of the n900 is it  was debian compatible05:38
GI_Jackit had GTK+ AND Qt05:38
GI_JackI want it to be able to pull dependencies like a regular linux distro05:38
GI_Jackand contain all the tool kits and interpreters that it needs to pull to make the full linux experiance happen05:38
GI_Jackpython? does it have a python port?05:38
GI_Jackespecially pyqt05:38
bjvi just installed python2705:38
GI_Jackpython2 and 305:39
GI_Jackand qt bindings05:39
bjvyeah, it's full armhf ubuntu05:39
bjvqt5, yeah05:39
GI_Jackwhat about qt4 and 3, like GTK, its going to be needed to run legacy apps05:39
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GI_Jackand perl05:40
bjvi see... python-qt4* stuff is in their stock repo05:40
bjvpthon and python305:40
GI_Jackmabey I should give ubuntu some credit05:40
GI_Jackinstead of being so harsh05:40
bjvnot certain if all qt4 functionality is supported by qt5?05:41
bjvthere's python-qt4-gl though05:41
GI_Jackbjv, of course, but not every app is written for Qt505:41
GI_Jacksame with GTK, I am sure all functionality is repeated in Qt5, and Qt5 is AWESOME05:41
bjvit does seem.. comprehensive05:42
bjvwe'll see how much it hurts to not have X11/gtk though05:42
GI_Jackbut the point of linux cell phone is that shit written for general purpose linux computing runs05:42
GI_Jackbjv, it doesn't need X11, it needs XMir to run X11 apps05:42
bjvor wayland05:43
GI_Jackeventually, but most apps are X1105:43
GI_Jackthe point of a linux cell phone is that it runs general purpose linux apps05:43
GI_Jackif I justed wanted the linux kernel, and some random other shit, I'd be on android05:43
GI_Jackbut not only do I want linux,I want GNU as well05:44
GI_JackI want its enitrity avialble05:44
GI_Jackwhat about a terminal emulator?05:44
bjvthe 24June nightly came with a stock terminal emulator05:44
bjvubuntu-terminal-app     0.5bzr15saucy005:45
bjvthe small screen, and weak N900, plus the overhead of administering your .img filesystem makes debian chroot ...  not as useful as it could be05:46
bjvbasically, ive had access to full linux desktop on a phone now for years05:46
bjvbut, it's not as smooth and nice as it could be05:46
GI_Jackno, I don't want a "full linux desktop", I too own an n90005:46
GI_JackI want something like hildon05:47
bjvi just mean software selection05:47
GI_JackI want the same type of software05:47
GI_Jacknot just the infotaintment platform05:47
bjvnow, Samsung sounds like they are turning their Tizen into a lock-in infotainment05:48
bjvremoving native Enlightenment libs from their SDK v2,etc.05:48
GeneralAntillesThere'a so much regulatory overhead and legal exposure in developing and selling a communication device.05:49
bjvGeneralAntilles: agreed.05:50
GeneralAntillesGovernment interference in the market tends to lead to massive firms and limited choice05:51
bjvGeneralAntilles: the unity8 UI reminds me enough of Harmattan/Swipe, that it makes me wonder just how much Canonical is risking litigation05:52
bjvmake a swipe based UI, great.05:52
GeneralAntillesPatents are a mess05:52
GeneralAntillesThe various government certifications are a mess05:52
bjvput a Swipe like UI "on a phone" ... *bam*   patent infringement circus05:53
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DocScrutinizer05tbh that's just because all the manufacturers are silly and think they can patent their GUI, rather than offer a truly open GUI to user07:42
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DocScrutinizer05I'd build a GUI that simply can recognize arbitrary gestures and user can assign a certain makro to each gesture, let's call that customization or user defined skin. Add to that a few desktops that can take arbitrary widgets and you're done. "SWIPE? Hell no! that's my customization of MyDesktop!"07:44
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DocScrutinizer05allow 1, 2, and 3-dimensional graphs with arbitrary sensor input incl first and 2nd derivative against the other dimensions, for each coordinate of such graphs. Then define areas that such graphs have to stay inside (obviously for 0 order derivative of time such gesture detection is a bit meaningless, since it would allow a gesture only at one certain moment, while 2st order allows to define gestures of a certain range of duration)08:34
DocScrutinizer05sorry, that stuff in brackets been BS for second half, the 1st order derivative of time is a constant08:35
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DocScrutinizer05we actually need to allow absolute and relative for all dimensions I guess08:36
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ShapeshifterIs there any way of making the n900 autoconnect to WPA enterprise wlans (other than pthimon/autoconnect from github which has to be compiled and requires qt-mobility)?10:22
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ShapeshifterAnd how can I scan for available networks on the cli as well as connect to networks from the cli?10:24
ShapeshifterThen I could just script a cron job10:24
DocScrutinizer05sth around ICD210:25
DocScrutinizer05I have a WLAN-off/on queenbeecon, and I know somewhere in wiki next to usb connectivity or tethering/BT-PAN there's sth mentioned regarding priority of connections used10:27
DocScrutinizer05iwconfig scan; to start with?10:28
DocScrutinizer05check phonecontrol, it also might have sth10:31
DocScrutinizer05and finally, the usual advice: dbus-monitor both buses and then select disconnect from current network and pick a new network in the GUI10:32
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: thanks, I'll check out those things.11:27
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: what's your opinion on smart reflex?11:27
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DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter: I'm very reluctant to use it, since I still don't think it is a huge achievement regarding power conservation, and the saying is that SR is instable on hw level11:35
DocScrutinizer05my top priority is a rock solid stable phone11:36
DocScrutinizer05and I'm charging once per day anyway, while - when I go to tablet mode (GSM disabled) - my device has a standby time of ~5 days, *without* SR11:37
DocScrutinizer05so why should I use it? I wouldn't even notice the difference11:37
DocScrutinizer05this however is applicable for my very own usage pattern that doesn't include much of mp3 listening, gameplay, or any other non-internet-related usage. So each time my CPU awakes, it does so when the modem already burned a magnitudes higher quantum of energy for transmitting/acknowledging data11:41
DocScrutinizer05some tests I recently read seem to suggest that power savings by SR&certain undervolting/overclocking profiles during mp3 playback might be up to 16%11:43
DocScrutinizer05for me this wouldn't be a convincing argument even when I'd listen to mp3 all day long11:44
DocScrutinizer05again YMMV11:44
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: Do you think it's true that an old SIM card (bad connectors) could impact battery life?11:46
DocScrutinizer05in theory yes, but that's a really bizarre scenario11:47
DocScrutinizer05kinda like "it's possible to build a AM radio with a cooking pot and a spoon"11:48
DocScrutinizer05let me put it this way: as long as you don't notice other problems (like missing connectivity or "no SIM detected"), it's hard to come up with a story how the SIM and bad contacts there would have any impact on your battery standby time11:51
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DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter: sorry, iwlist scan12:00
DocScrutinizer05not iwconfig12:00
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: well I do get "no sim detected" from time to time but I'd suspect the chips coming of the pcb or something...12:01
DocScrutinizer05actually >> iwlist wlan0 scan << is the better12:01
DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter: check *#06# as soon as you encounter 2no sim detected"12:01
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: I'll remember that. I don't have iwlist on my n900...12:02
Shapeshifteror so it seems12:02
DocScrutinizer05this shall display you IMEI if the modem still working12:02
DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter: iwlist might be from a supplementary pkg which you need to install12:03
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ShapeshifterBy the way I have another annoying problem. The notes application doesn't auto-save and doesn't load the previous notes file after a reboot. I.e. I have to manually save the notes or else they are lost when the phone shuts down and I also have to manually load the notes file, since Notes opens with an empty notes file.12:06
DocScrutinizer05tbh I despise notes app, so I dunno how it works nowadays and if that changed "officially"12:08
DocScrutinizer05or if there's a catch how you shall handle storing and opening of texts12:09
DocScrutinizer05isn't this the shit that stores the textx in tracker?12:09
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DocScrutinizer05if that's true, than any changes you done to tracker config might have caused that issue12:10
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: mh, no I think it stores it in a text file in .documents12:12
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: what do you use for quick notes?12:12
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: I sometimes simply use vim but I haven't configured it for autosaving. I could do that. simple enough12:12
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: it's quite odd I can't find iwlist/iwconfig. They're not installed. There's an iw package in the repos but it's a different tool and can't scan (operation not supported -95).12:14
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: And I can't find a matching package via dpkg -S12:15
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: could you please run whereis iwconfig so I can at least know the right path where it's supposed to be?12:15
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DocScrutinizer05all iw* tools in /sbin/12:18
Shapeshifter>.> dpkg -S iwconfig only shows me a bunch of man pages in the man-db-pages package.12:18
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: does dpkg -S /sbin/iwconfig give you any output?12:18
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DocScrutinizer05wireless-tools: /sbin/iwconfig12:19
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DocScrutinizer05  Installed: 30~pre7-1.3maemo+0m512:20
DocScrutinizer05        500 ./ Packages12:20
DocScrutinizer05CAN ANYBODY PLEASE FIX apt-cache?!? So it shows whole URL and not only base URL12:21
DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter: I bet it's nokia's tools repo12:22
ShapeshifterIsn't that repo offline?12:24
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: thanks!12:27
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DocScrutinizer05beware, my .install installs THREE repos, you might want to delete two of them in HAM catalogs after you clicked on the .install12:29
infobotmethinks jrtools is
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: Mh. I get "Err ./ Release" and later "W: GPG error: http// ./ Release: The following signatures were invalid: KEYEXPIRED ..." when doing apt-get update. There still must be something wrong with my repos...12:31
ShapeshifterI searched the forum and I guess it has something to do with the dns migration away from Nokia but I can't find a solution...12:31
DocScrutinizer05no, that's the well known fsckng exired nokia signature key12:31
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: so it's a non critical warning?12:32
DocScrutinizer05most easy workaround I heard of: set your system date to 2012-01-01 temporarily12:32
DocScrutinizer05if that's a showstopper anyway - I think it's only a warning12:32
DocScrutinizer05please report about your findings12:33
DocScrutinizer05so next time I have better info to share12:33
DocScrutinizer05I *think* "W:"  means "noncritical Warning"12:34
DocScrutinizer05it just lowers trustlevel of that source12:34
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DocScrutinizer05so you couldn't replace or update packages that been formerly installed to your system from same repo when the key was valid, since then the notorious "third party policy" would forbid replacing the existing package by a lower-trusted version12:36
DocScrutinizer05for fresh installs however it shouldn't matter AIUI12:36
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: nah I don't mind the warning. In any case, installing wireless-tools from the tools repo worked. thanks12:38
Lava_Croftis there actually a mirror for
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DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter: thanks for reporting12:42
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: ask on #harmattan, over there the info is more up to date12:42
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Shapeshifterwhohoo! it's quite easy to connect to WPA2 (even enterprise) from the cli without having to mess with iw* tools by running "dbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/icd string:"IAP_ID" uint32:0" with an IAP_ID found in gconftool. Nice.12:50
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Shapeshifternow if I could monitor wlancond scans using dbus-scripts, that would be brilliant...12:53
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Shapeshifterit's also funny that the WPA auth passwords are stored in gconf as plain text ...12:56
Shapeshiftergreat job Nokia12:56
Shapeshifteras always12:56
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DocScrutinizer05well, how else would you stpore them?13:05
DocScrutinizer05you need the plaintext password, everything else doesn't work for authenticating against any AP13:05
DocScrutinizer05or are you referring to that insane "concept" to obfuscate the local password store so that hackers still easily can read it out but *user* can't read it anymore without using hackertools?13:06
divVerentShapeshifter: not much secure on iPhone :P13:09
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divVerentShapeshifter: iPhone encrypts it with LOTS OF KEYS which are stored in plain on the device itself13:09
divVerentthe only security there is - and which the N900 maybe should do - is encrypting it with the lock code (indirectly)13:09
DocScrutinizer05sure, something has to be "plain text", if only it's the algo for rot13 ;-P13:09
divVerenthowever, look at your lock code and how easily it is guessed...13:09
divVerentmost people use just a few digits13:10
DocScrutinizer05since after all eventually some app needs the plaintext password back to use it13:10
divVerentyou actually can brute force the lock code ON a jailbroken iPhone in a few mins13:10
divVerentit only takes so long because the CPU is so slow :P13:10
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: well, encrypting by the lock code is SOMETHING... but really not much13:11
DocScrutinizer05sure, all that is not meant to protect a device against real attacks13:11
divVerentit also would mean the freshly booted, not yet unlocked, phone would not connect to a WLAN13:11
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divVerentone can argue whether that would be good or bad, there is arguments for both sides13:11
DocScrutinizer05if you want a secure device, you'll need cryptfs13:11
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divVerentsort of13:11
divVerentas I said... iPhone does all that13:11
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divVerentyet isn't much secure13:12
divVerentit all stands or falls with the security of the unlock code13:12
DocScrutinizer05and even that doesn't help against device getting stolen in uncrypted/unlocked state13:12
divVerentand nobody uses a long code there13:12
divVerentfor most devices: because on screen keyboard sucks, so all people use is few digits or a pattern (similar security)13:12
divVerentfor N900: because nokia didn't implement keyboard password entry :P13:13
DocScrutinizer05you however can implement a erase-all function that kicks in on too many false unlock tries13:13
divVerentnot really...13:13
divVerenton iOS, yes13:13
divVerentthis is the main thing what the cryptfs is for13:13
divVerentso "wiping" the device is a single sector write to clear the key13:13
divVerentbut it is true, the N900 really offers no security for passwords at all... not even pseudo security like iOS :P13:14
divVerentwhich is why I did a hack to make modest never store email passwords to disk13:14
divVerentthe gconf files contain the empty string for the password, and before using modest, I run a shell script remounting this dir as a ramdisk, copying the files in, and asking and inserting the passwords13:14
divVerentsame hack probably can be applied to WLAN too13:15
divVerentthe only actually somewhat secure device is the Blackberry13:16
divVerentand even that (at least the Bold 9000) I can "crack open" with a little help from the owner...13:16
divVerenti.e. trojan some system files (you CAN replace OS files via USB)13:17
divVerentthen give it back :P13:17
divVerentbut design wise, Blackberry did it best... lock code is mandatory before opening the whole user file system, mainly13:17
DocScrutinizer05my staement stands: once your device is "unlocked", and "security" by additionally obfuscating any passwords is a false friend that makes matters worse instead of better13:17
divVerentAND actually good support for long and alphanumeric lock codes13:17
divVerenti.e. real keyboard and working PW entry13:17
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: my staement stanys: once your device is "unlocked", and "security" by additionally obfuscating any passwords is a false friend that makes matters worse instead of better13:18
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: so? this is why you always lock it :P13:18
DocScrutinizer05s/ and/ any/13:18
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: my staement stands: once your device is "unlocked", any "security" by additionally obfuscating any passwords is a false friend that makes matters worse instead of better13:18
divVerentthe lock screen of the N900 is actually a LOT more secure than the competition's...13:18
DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter complained about cleartext passwords he can see on his unlocked device13:18
divVerentdue to not having so many features :P13:18
divVerentbasically, I do not expect any hacks to break the N900 lock screen13:19
divVerentthe only real chance you have is probably doing something tricky via USB13:19
divVerentthe lock screen has ONE issue though...13:19
divVerentwhen the phone turned off the screen, then auto locked13:19
divVerentand you later unlock it13:19
divVerentyou see for a split second the window below the lock screen13:20
DocScrutinizer05hmm, yeah13:20
divVerentbut that is just a minor information leak13:20
DocScrutinizer05we could call that a bug13:20
DocScrutinizer05on unlock the screen should get enabled only *after* refreshing it13:20
divVerentBlackberry did most of the security right, but its lock screen is bound to have the same vulns as Apple's or iOS's13:21
divVerentregarding full user data on crypto FS, there is more challenges13:21
divVerente.g. what if you receive a SMS right after boot, before unlock13:21
divVerentBlackberry then stores the message in a temporary unencrypted location, to be moved to proper storage on unlock13:21
divVerentalso... everyone knows this freezing RAM hack :P13:22
divVerentbasically, an attacker who invests about like $1000 per targeted device type can easily crack disk encryption on any powered on device13:23
divVerentby freezing the RAM, removing the frozen RAM, and reading it out on another device13:23
divVerentof course, if I were such an attacker, I would rather invest these $1000 into cracking a specific iOS or Android device type than into cracking N900s...13:24
divVerentor actually, rather into Blackberry, as I can read most stuff from iPhones and Android anyway :P13:24
DocScrutinizer05usually the modem stores the SMS until the AP/userland fetches it. Obviously not applicable for those crappy devices that don't even have an AP but run all processes on modem processor13:24
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divVerentDocScrutinizer05: sort of, but the user interface wants to show the SMS text on the lock screen :P13:24
divVerentwhich BTW is a security hole by itself13:25
jaskabut.. if you open a blackberry, liquid feces will pour out.13:25
divVerentbut ALL the current devices do it13:25
divVerentthis is how you crack open an Apple device, knowing the email address of the guy:13:25
divVerentgo to, ask for password reset...13:26
divVerentthe powered on and networked iPhone will happily display a confirmation code on the lock screen :P13:26
divVerentthey probably fixed THAT part, though... by putting more crap before the code13:26
divVerentbut still, anything with SMS based confirmation will likely work13:26
divVerentwhile bashing competitioon phone security: Android13:27
divVerentit has security systems comparable to iOS...13:27
divVerentBUT: the SD card is always unencrypted13:27
divVerentand that is where all the photos go13:27
divVerentonly Blackberry actually is capable of encrypting the SD card content out of the box...13:28
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wndseems that my n900's internal memory(card) is busted. filesystems on mmcblk0p[12] keep breaking. :-(13:51
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ShapeshifterI'm not sure why people use a lock screen...13:59
Shapeshifteri don't use one13:59
Lava_Crofti disable lockscreens on any device i can, if possible14:00
Lava_Croftif i have to count all the time ive spent looking at useless lockscreens....14:00
Shapeshifterlock screen on androids are funny. You can spy on someone entering it from a mile away thanks to the connecting bars14:01
orsonit is enough if you wipe the touchscreen before some unlocks it14:01
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orsonthen you will have quite clear traces of finger movement visible14:02
orsonof course, depending on how greasy are fingers of the user ;)14:03
DocScrutinizer05wnd: what exactly are the symptoms you see?14:05
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wndtwo consecutive fscks detect and repair errors (but only in interactive mode)14:05
DocScrutinizer05wnd: *IF* your eMMC was flawed on hw level, you would face plenty of system panics due to swap getting corrupted14:06
wndthe thing no longer even boots to ui as init can't mount mydocs14:06
DocScrutinizer05mydocs is not needed for booting14:07
DocScrutinizer05/home is needed14:07
wndwell, the same happens with optfs (which I believe holds /home)14:07
DocScrutinizer05yeah, home contains /opt14:07
wndmy mistake, I mentioned mydocs first because that's what I fscked twice (with errors)14:08
DocScrutinizer05fsck more often than not fails when started on device to fix the VFAT on MyDocs14:08
DocScrutinizer05your best option is to do a complete reflash14:09
wndmmcblk0p[12] on this device are ext314:09
wndI suppose I should give that a try14:09
DocScrutinizer05I honestly suggest you test the device with a plain vanilla stock fremantle system14:10
wndand perhaps run dd on those devices to see if I get io errors14:10
DocScrutinizer05data corruption on flash rarely ever is related to IO errors14:10
DocScrutinizer05and on my side jury is still out on ext3 and its journalling, on flash. It easily might be worse than plain ext214:12
wndthat's probably correct14:13
DocScrutinizer05since unlike on HDD, on flash you can't write single sectors14:13
DocScrutinizer05physically you always have to rewrite complete erase-pages14:13
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DocScrutinizer05btw BWAHAHAHA @ USA: "he doesn't own a valid passport anymore since the USA canceled it" - I *never* heard of remote invalidation of a valid passport. That's the whole point of a passport14:15
DocScrutinizer05(sorry for OT, but I had to say that)14:16
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DocScrutinizer05fsckng US-government always thinks they can bend or invent new laws just like they seem fit14:37
RaimuBad thing is they usually get away with it14:38
RaimuThrough sheer weight14:38
jaskamight makes right14:38
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DocScrutinizer05no, we didn't murder that guy, we eliminated a unlawful combattant / terrorist / <up-to-you>, which is perfectly legal according to that new US law anywhere on this globe14:39
DocScrutinizer05FSCKYOU according to MY law it's perfectly legal to blast you off my lawn when you ever dare to show up here14:40
* DocScrutinizer05 heats up the MTHEL14:41
rikaneethe kind of mass-collection and analysis power they have is /scary/.14:41
RaimuThankfully any collection of insane amounts of data is ultimately impossible to process, therefore relatively safe14:42
RaimuThat is, unless someone invents something straight out of science fiction.14:42
rikaneebacked with fiber taps and ZBs of storage and counting, the only thing missing is processing power for all of it14:42
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DocScrutinizer05indeed, though as soon as they want to know about *your* sexula preferences or whatever, it's the easiest thing to grep thru that insane amount of random data for your IPs, mail addr, and whatnot14:43
RaimuYes, that's right though.14:43
rikaneespeaking of which, makes me interested to feed an Accumulo instance raw wireshark caps of my home network.14:45
DocScrutinizer05wich is the exact problem with that shit: it's useless for what they claim they do it for, but it is *easily* abused to e.g. allow/deny a visa based on you-dunno-what-they-gep'ed-the-data-for14:46
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RaimuDocScrutinizer05: Yeaaaah14:47
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SAiFThey can break any password with a dictionary attack using all that info. HAHA14:56
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IridosDocScrutinizer05, well... traveling to the US and I had to answer the question if I "was involved in genocide" ... hmmm, now was I? Or if I'm entering with the goal to commit terrorist activities.... well, no, but what if I change my mind until then?16:10
Lava_CroftIridos: When my brother visited the USA they were so welcoming16:17
Lava_Croftwith automatic rifles16:17
Lava_Crofttreating him like a terrorist16:18
SAiFYet they say it is a  Free Country16:20
Lava_Crofti guess once you are inside! :D16:23
DocScrutinizer05it's probably indeed a free country. In the sense that everybody does whatever they like. Including the three-letter-agencies and down to the last dumbass countryside sheriff or flatfoot police officer16:29
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DocScrutinizer05when police there wants to charge you for speeding, it's not about your car plate and photos of your steering the car, it's about police needing a faster car than you have, to catch you right away16:31
DocScrutinizer05in a certain aspect they still have wild west cowboy regulations over there16:32
DocScrutinizer05and they act globally exactly like that16:32
Lava_Croftthey looked very closely at their european forefather16:39
Lava_Croftand realized: we can do this much better16:39
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Lava_Crofteurope is also becoming much a fortress like the USA is16:39
Lava_Croftat least the USA doesnt put immigrant children in jail while awaiting to be deported16:40
Lava_CroftNL does:)16:40
Lava_Croftand those 3 letter agencies in the USA can only dream of the powers that Dutch agencies have16:40
jaskaoh, here.. the police can grant themselves search warrants.16:41
Lava_Croft(over their own citizens of course)16:41
Lava_Croftoh, they dont need warrants here16:41
Lava_Croftthey can just wiretap all they want16:41
Lava_Croftcameras at the roads take pics of my license plate and store it for 2 years at least16:41
Lava_CroftDPI and checking surfing behaviour is all common practice here16:41
Lava_Croftthat why NL is the second country to put net neutrality into law16:42
Lava_Croftthat way you can point at it and say: "look, we embrace freedom!"16:42
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GeneralAntillesOne nice thing that had been keeping the effectiveness of a lot of that stupid shot at bay in the US was the lack of interagency communication. Especially between state and Fed level agencies.16:56
GeneralAntillesNow it's all going into massive databases.16:57
GeneralAntillesThe DEA has quietly been installing highway license plate cameras.16:57
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: the point probably is you don't really need a licence plate at all for driving around with your car in USA17:00
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DocScrutinizer05sure, you probably better had one, but if you don't - does it matter?17:01
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, no, a cop or sheriff or highway patrol will stop you at some point.17:02
DocScrutinizer05yeah sure, they stop you. and then?17:03
DocScrutinizer05do you have any documents along with such licence plate?17:04
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DocScrutinizer05or could you use an arbitrary plate on your car and no cop would even notice when checking you17:04
Lava_Crofthere they just check your license plate in the dbase right away17:05
Lava_Croftand if something is not in order, you have problems17:05
Lava_Croftbe it tax debt, fines, whatever17:05
Lava_Croftusually they put everybody in one parking lot17:05
Lava_Croftfrom the IRS to cops to whatever17:05
Lava_Croftand hold razzia's along the highway17:05
Lava_Croftchecking up on everyone they deem suspicious17:06
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Lava_Croftits great spending 2h at a police station because a friend of yours is in the army17:06
Lava_Croftand has empty bullet casings in his car17:06
DocScrutinizer05anyway I heard in USA you sell the car with all the tickets *the car* collected over time, that not yet been paid17:06
DocScrutinizer05so sometimes you have to pay for getting rid of the car ;-P17:07
Lava_Crofttying fines to the license plate is an awesome idea:D17:07
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DocScrutinizer05"Nice car! why do you sell it? and THAT cheap!" <opens glove box - 200 tickets ooze out> "UGH! Yeah that's why"17:09
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ecc3ghuh?  fines are tied to the registration tied to the tags... car sold, fines stay with the previous registrar...17:10
DocScrutinizer05in USA?17:10
DocScrutinizer05hmm, maybe that's obsolete or incorrect info then on my side17:10
ecc3gI get new tags every time I buy a car...17:10
ecc3gthey "are" tied to tags of course but they go back to whoever registered the car.17:11
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, don't trust information about the US you get in Europe. :)17:11
DocScrutinizer05yeah, usually the truth is much worse X-P17:11
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GeneralAntillesMore like, completely unrelated. ;)17:13
GeneralAntillesAnd don't forget the US is a federation of states.17:13
GeneralAntillesSo rules are often quite different from state to state.17:13
DocScrutinizer05I *think* I got this as a story from a good friend, 20 years or somesuch ago, after he visited US to get his PP licence17:15
DocScrutinizer05PP? whatever pilot license17:16
* DocScrutinizer05 curses his spellchecker for not knowing correct English17:17
ecc3gprovisional pilot license?17:18
DocScrutinizer05I thought it's called PP, but I'm not sure about it17:18
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DocScrutinizer05~seen Woody1461917:19
infobotwoody14619 is currently on #maemo #maemo-ssu. Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 18h 52m, last said: 'I'd say, yes, that's a great reason to advertise it (and to hopefully garner a bit more of appreciation to those who volunteer their time for such).'.17:19
DocScrutinizer05so the story is a) pretty old, and b) from SF area, if it's actually been told by my friend17:22
HtheBDocScrutinizer05, do you have any knowledge of extracting rootfs17:24
HtheB(tarring it)17:24
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DocScrutinizer05HtheB: err, please elaborate17:26
HtheBi have a proto device laying here17:27
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HtheBjust want to extract the rootfs to try it on the regular N95017:27
HtheB(maybe using ubiboot)17:27
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Shapeshifterfucking modest!! it regularily eats 100% CPU and my battery...17:37
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DocScrutinizer05HtheB: well, I'd think a normal tar -czvf should do, unless you run into troubles with all the virtual filesystems17:42
DocScrutinizer05stuff like /dev and /sys for sure is sth you usually/mostly don't want to add to your tarball17:43
DocScrutinizer05HtheB: I feel like I can't give good advice, please ask somebody with better knowledge17:44
kerioyou probably want to mount the root device on a separate directory17:44
kerioand tar from there17:44
DocScrutinizer05yeah, this sounds good17:46
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HtheBkerio, I coulnd't17:53
HtheBkeeps asking if I was root17:53
HtheBwhich I was -_-17:53
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
HtheBkerip, afaik, there is no aegis in the proto devices17:57
HtheBkerio *17:59
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HaroHow do you install the SSL certificates on the N900 to use wget with https?18:14
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HaroHow do you install the SSL certificates on the N900 to use wget with https?18:33
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orsonHaro: I know it's not the direct answer to your questions, but maybe you don't need certificates and simply use the --no-check-certificate parameter?18:43
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kerioyou don't /need/ certificates18:55
keriobut they are somewhat good18:55
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orsonI agree, it just depends on the situation - it occurred to me a few times that I wanted to download a script from https website, but I could not as the certificate could not be verified19:04
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orsonand it was not highly secured data, so the simplest solution worked the best19:04
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Win7MacDocScrutinizer05, would love to read your comment:
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