IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-06-21

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DocScrutinizer05sorry, offline at nn:57:3000:06
DocScrutinizer05and indeed it's extremely sad that we are no step further than where we been 9 months ago, with that HiFo baby00:06
DocScrutinizer05ahh, nothing got lost00:09
ShadowJKSorry, but I've been kinda absent... what mess, what step? summary? :D00:11
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_rdDocScrutinizer05, good question, I think they build generic packages.00:23
_rdso I would not worry about the chinook, but let me check....00:23
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_rdyes, they have only chinook builds. Even if it would be really chinook, I should not get an archive error(?)00:24
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: mess with Hifo00:56
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DocScrutinizer05[notice] I started token bulk mailing07:14
DocScrutinizer05the tokens are still the same as for the past election(s)07:14
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DocScrutinizer05this is for the BoD elections to start in 14h, so we finally get a new *elected* BoD again07:18
DocScrutinizer05NOTE: you can as well use your "old" token and accountname you received for referendum and MMC/HFC elections07:23
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vi__Lava_Croft: ping11:57
vi__anyone_who_is_into_fone_tech: ping11:57
vi__One of my fleet of N900 finally succumbed to the communication error bug yesterday.11:58
vi__I burned some incense and said a little prayer.11:58
DocScrutinizer05communication error bug?11:59
vi__I can protect against the broken USB port but not CMT failure.11:59
DocScrutinizer05aah cmt failure11:59
vi__Fucking nokia.12:00
DocScrutinizer05I still think cmt failure might get triggered by too hard pressure/force applied to kbd12:00
vi__It was the handset mrs vi_ uses.12:00
vi__I think it is time for her to move onto droid.12:01
vi__She only used to the n900 to make me happy :(12:01
DocScrutinizer05I honestly think they shouldn't have placed huge BGA chips on backside of kbd area12:01
vi__You think the pcb gets distorted enough?12:02
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vi__Maybe I should be the first to attempt a diy reflow!12:02
vi__How hot for a BGA?12:03
DocScrutinizer05err, I guess usual reflow profile12:03
DocScrutinizer05iirc some max 260°C for no longer than 120s, with a preheat of dunno. Check the usual manufacturer and reflow oven profile specs12:04
vi__Do you think the domesheet could handle that?12:05
DocScrutinizer05for sure not12:05
DocScrutinizer05you'll have to carefully remove it, then fit it again after rework and test12:05
DocScrutinizer05I'd also remove cam module prior to reflow action12:06
DocScrutinizer05for the best profile, I can't give any good advice for rework12:07
DocScrutinizer05aunt google might help12:07
vi__It was only a silly idea anyway.12:08
DocScrutinizer05onlike some of my chinese colleagues back from openmoko, I personally never did BGA manual reflow12:08
DocScrutinizer05unlike even12:09
DocScrutinizer05you might try and get a hold of those experts at #qi-hardware12:09
vi__I think I will just let it go.12:10
vi__It can be the car computer or something.12:10
infobotrumour has it, cmtfix is
vi__Is that picture for real?12:11
DocScrutinizer05supposed to be the scientific fork of "paper under battery" workaround suggested by even Nokia care12:11
DocScrutinizer05vi__: yes, I think it's for real12:12
vi__It looks like it does wonders for the RF shielding.12:12
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DocScrutinizer05of course the can lids are meant to get closed after applying the springs ;-P12:13
vi__I wonder what all this mobile phone rf is doing to my bollocks.12:14
DocScrutinizer05best case save you much trouble12:14
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vi__I am seriously considering switching back to symbian.12:15
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vi__or one of those credit card sized phones that only makes calls.12:16
DocScrutinizer05hey, why not go the geek way rather than for sybian?
DocScrutinizer05THAT guy is a real animal when it comes to DIY reworks12:19
vi__Holy shit.  That is glorious!12:19
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vi__Did you see this thing?12:24
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vi__It has a UHF radio in it!12:25
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DocScrutinizer05solar charging made me giggle a short while12:36
vi__Truthfully, if a person was in a so called survival situation, the last thing they would want is battery powered things.12:37
DocScrutinizer05with a 5W transceiver, the solar charging is really only for robinson sending a short SOS every other year, when a ship passes by12:41
DocScrutinizer05but an interesting gadget anyway, thanks for the pointer :-)12:42
DocScrutinizer05>>Glove friendly infrared touchscreen<< DUH!12:43
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DocScrutinizer05wtf is an " IR blaster"?12:45
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vi__Perhaps an IR illumination for survival night vision.13:20
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Lava_Croftvi__: pong?13:32
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vi__good morning.13:38
vi__I always had the impression you are quite up to date on phone tech.13:38
vi__Can you recommend a cheap as **** android handset for mrs vi_?13:39
Lava_Croftow, i dont know about that:<13:39
Lava_Croftive always been interested in that too13:39
Lava_Croftbut its like a forest of cheap droids13:39
Lava_Crofti would say go with a cheaper samsung :|13:40
vi__any particular models etc?13:40
Lava_Crofti know my mother in law has this cheapo Galaxy device and is quite happy13:40
rikaneevi__: get any device that shows up on XDA.13:40
Lava_Croftsome small-ish thingy13:40
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Lava_Croftget that new Asha13:41
Lava_Crofti really like that design13:41
vi__The thing is, I do not want to expend too much effort 'researching'.13:41
vi__I think it has to be android.13:42
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rikaneevi__: Galaxy Grand?13:42
Lava_Croftcheap droid means droid running on slow shit hardware13:42
Lava_Croftwhich usually doesnt really make it awesome13:42
Lava_Croftthis might have changed tho13:42
rikaneehow cheap is cheap, exactly?13:43
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Lava_Croftsub $100?13:44
Lava_Croftthat has some models for you13:47
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vi__That does seem cheap enough.13:58
vi__I paid more than that for a nokia 5800 3 years ago.13:59
vi__It appears to be supported by the cyanogenmod13:59
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Lava_Croftyeah, cyanogen support is a nice bonus14:01
Lava_Croftscottish friend of mine got that from Hong Kong14:02
Lava_Croftfor around 100euros14:02
vi__does it support cyanogen?14:09
Lava_Crofthe installed it on the device14:10
vi__are you scotch?14:11
Lava_Croftonly thing he doesnt like, except android maybe, is the lack of a CTRL key on the hw keyb14:11
vi__BUt you can remap the kb anyway you want on android...right?14:11
Lava_Crofti guess14:11
vi__where did he buy it?14:12
vi__ah.  Who am I kidding.  She does not care for HWKB.14:13
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vi__Does MTK chipsets still suck asses?14:14
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Lava_Croftno clue14:15
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* DocScrutinizer05 reads >>its like a forest of cheap droids<< and starts humming Stranglers - The Rise of the Robots14:18
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Lava_CroftRise of the Robots was this beat em up14:18
vi__And it sucked balls.  I remember it.14:19
Lava_Croftit was no Killer Instinct14:19
vi__But the cover art was kinda cool with that blue robot.14:19
Lava_CroftKI gets a remake14:19
Lava_Croftyeah i found a valid reason to mention it14:19
vi__A remake you say?14:20
vi__Will we get to see orchids bewbs this time or will they censor her fatality again?14:20
Lava_Crofther weirdo banana shaped boobs14:20
Lava_CroftI never can get enough of 90s computer game advertising14:22
DocScrutinizer05>>This video contains content from UMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.<<14:22
Lava_Crofthaha, welcome to germany14:22
vi__zappa.  banned in germany.14:23
vi__you should go to war.14:23
Lava_Croftzappa is banned like mein kampf14:23
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Lava_Crofti bet someone can think of a valid reason to link the two14:23
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DocScrutinizer05it's simple RIAA/GEMA (c) stuff14:27
DocScrutinizer05recently they tried to implement same even for google (et al) citations of texts with their search hits14:30
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Lava_CroftGEMA is the protector of all creative people in Germany14:30
* Lava_Croft chokes on his words14:31
Lava_Crofti thought we Dutchies had it bad with the blockade of TPB, but Germany is much, much worse with its ridiculous GEMA14:31
DocScrutinizer05newspapers etc asked for insane refund/click from google, based on "they earn so much money with linking to our sites, we want some of that" rationale14:31
Lava_Croftyeah, they tried that here too14:31
Lava_Crofta lot of the stuff that GEMA now does just didnt really pass for acceptable here14:32
Lava_Croftthats what i dont understand, its not like Germans and Dutchies are so different14:32
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vi__google does not earn any money from links.14:36
vi__In fact if it were not for google how would the newspapers site get any traffic?14:36
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vi__From 'yahoo' searches?14:36
DocScrutinizer05vi__: that's irrelevant to the core argumentation of "we WANT some of that!"14:37
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DocScrutinizer05a few years ago they actually tried to sue ISPs for providing access to (C) content14:38
DocScrutinizer05you have no idea what lawyers can come up with, when they try to make money14:39
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DocScrutinizer05the concept of "Mitstoerer-Haftung" still applies and could forbid me to offer free internet access via a guest WLAN for neighbours and randomly passing by WLAN users14:41
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Lava_Croftstill rule of law that owner of connection is legally responsible?14:42
Lava_Croftso i could leech child porn off of your wifi and you get the blame14:42
Lava_Croftso, so bad14:43
rikaneeIP addresses and known owners make prosecution just so easy.14:43
DocScrutinizer05I might prove I had an open WLAN and there been a guest who did that, but then they require that I provide ID of that guest14:43
DocScrutinizer05if I can't provide the ID, then it's me who pays14:44
vi__what if I hacked your wifi?14:44
DocScrutinizer05then I pay for not properly maintaining my WLAN14:45
rikaneeDocScrutinizer05: that sucks.14:45
vi__As it should be!  The victim of crime should pay to clean up the mess!14:45
rikaneeI mean, hypothetically, if WPA2 gets a skid-friendly attack, and WPA3 hasn't been NSA-certified yet, does everybody just get the schtick?14:46
divVerentBTW... as for legally responsible: only in civil law14:46
divVerentso technically you committed no crime if someone else DL'd child porn through your WLAN14:46
DocScrutinizer05actually not properly securing your WLAN is worse than offering open and free WLAN (plus tracing MAC of clients)14:46
divVerentI'd be more worried about civil law issues, e.g. copyright14:47
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: right14:47
divVerentas for that there are clear laws that the ISP account owner is the "also-disturber" (no idea how to translate that)14:47
divVerentregarding the overused child porn example, what WOULD happen is that they'd seize your computers to analyze them...14:48
rikaneedivVerent: corroborator?14:48
DocScrutinizer05(worried about copyright) which is where we came from14:48
divVerentto give them back to you 3 years later without charging you for a crime14:48
divVerentstill very bad14:48
rikaneedivVerent: aiding and abetting?14:48
divVerentrikanee: sort of... not sure if that english term includes "accidentally" doing it14:48
divVerentsee open WLAN14:49
divVerentor rather, semi-open (e.g. WEP)14:49
DocScrutinizer05neither does the german term mit-stoerer14:49
divVerentsimilar to when my actions would accidentally help a murderer... and for that I cannot get charged14:49
divVerente.g. typical example: the guy who sold the knife to the killer14:49
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: that german term includes unwillingly doing so14:50
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divVerentso with a not properly secured WLAN you are one too14:50
divVerentand be it a 0day in your AP14:50
DocScrutinizer05yeah, they won't prosecute you for the murder, but the killed guy's wife sues you for livelong recompensation14:50
divVerenthaha, no14:50
rikaneeso, uhh… assuming you're a Starbucks franchiser, and have a WiFi network with captive portal, and a DPI firewall with an active blocklist, what if someone uses Tor to get their cheese pizza?14:50
divVerentthat is why you practically cannot get out of liability14:51
rikaneeblaming the owner for illegal access is a politico cop-out, imo14:51
divVerentrikanee: that is no issue...14:51
divVerentrikanee: and yes, it is a stupid cop-out14:51
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: tbh the term "Mit-Stoerer" doesn't imply anything for me, it's gibberish14:51
divVerentbut it is parallel to e.g. crimes committed using your car14:51
divVerentyou provided the vehicle, so you still can get sued for damages14:52
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: it is14:52
rikaneedivVerent: actually, more like a large, private freeway, with free, open access.14:52
divVerentBTW, typical example of being a Mitstoerer...14:52
divVerentuse QtMobileHotspot on N90014:52
divVerentit can't do WPA14:53
divVerentso you're basically automatically screweed14:53
divVerentthe only way out is being a company (yes... as soon as you have money, suddenly all is ok)14:53
rikaneewith a freeway analogy, do they actually expect you to lay down CCTV every 5 meters and rent-a-cops to secure it?14:53
divVerentyes, but only if you are private14:53
divVerentas a company, you can offer any access you want\14:54
divVerentthat is why public hotspots work e.g. in airports14:54
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divVerentall authentication they have is your MAC address... which can even be fake14:54
divVerentsometimes even a mobile phone number... which can be equally fake14:54
divVerentso if anyone sues...14:54
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: no, I can be a private non-company too, I only have to utterly offer the WLAN for anybody to access internet, then it's less probelmatic than when I get hacked14:54
divVerentall they will say is "it was a user with this MAC, go catch him yourself"14:54
divVerentand they are done14:55
DocScrutinizer05I just have to keep records of all MAC14:55
divVerentwhich is practically useless14:55
divVerentand also... are you allowed to keep these records?14:55
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divVerentIIRC Vorratsdatenspeicherung only applies starting from a certain user count14:55
DocScrutinizer05the mandatory property, yes14:56
divVerentairports basically authorize to themselves as they need these records for "billing"14:56
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DocScrutinizer05that doesn't forbid it on smaller "ISP"14:56
divVerentso they can limit your usage to 30min and for more you pay14:56
divVerentit does not?14:56
divVerentI thought privacy laws basically forbid you to collect any "unnecessary" data14:56
divVerentunless explicitly authorized14:57
divVerentso if you are not required to do Vorratsdatenspeicherung, you are not allowed to either14:57
DocScrutinizer05THAT applies only to companies14:57
Lava_CroftISP here is going to transmit wifi from its clients routers14:57
rikaneeooh, so logging MAC, with a captive portal with disclaimer, gets you out?14:57
divVerentunless you happen to have another reason to do the same14:57
divVerente.g. "billing", the usual excuse14:57
Lava_Croftso other clients can make use of wifi throughout the country14:57
divVerentread: "so you have less bandwidth and can't find out why"14:58
Lava_Croftseperate lines14:58
divVerentas in, "ISP will always say someone else is using your b/w before admitting your line is bad"14:58
DocScrutinizer05it's my private LAN, I can stora all the data I want14:58
divVerentoh, REALLY separate?14:58
Lava_Croftnot physically14:58
DocScrutinizer05that I share it doesn't make a difference14:58
Lava_Croftit does not interfere with your own bw, divVerent14:59
Lava_Croftthey have more than enough bw anyways14:59
divVerentlet's see if that will be true :P14:59
Lava_Croftit will, since people wont accept any degredation of performance14:59
Lava_Croftnot for this14:59
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DocScrutinizer05inless fibre, they never have more than enough bandwidth for me15:00
divVerentLava_Croft: not initially, sure15:00
DocScrutinizer05unless even15:00
divVerentit basically gives the ISPs another thing to claim in order to not have to fix your line15:01
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Lava_CroftdivVerent: if its a performance decrease that is not percieved as such15:01
Lava_Croftit doesnt exist15:01
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divVerentLava_Croft: no, no15:02
Lava_Croftyou know, the nexus7 turned out really awful15:02
divVerentit just adds another thing to the script of the hotlines15:02
Lava_Croftthey used such cheap flash memory that over time the tablet performs like android on n90015:02
divVerentso if your line is bad, hotline will after the usual reboot crap, start blaming it on interference or such crap15:03
Lava_Croftso now my nexus7 is like a cheap toy store droid tablet15:03
Lava_CroftdivVerent: :) yes15:03
divVerentthey needed to reduce performance to achieve iPhone feeling15:03
Lava_Croftits really bad15:03
Lava_Crofti basically have to reflash to solve it15:04
vi__Can you explain?15:04
vi__Is there some amnufacturing fault on the nexus7?15:04
Lava_Croftcheap flash storage supposedly works fine for large writes/reads like media files15:06
Lava_Croftbut ends up performinf really bad on the OS's small writes/reads15:06
divVerentso for what does it not work well?15:06
divVerentwhy would the OS do small reads/writes all the time15:06
divVerentI kinda doubt that... as in, doubt that THAT is the reason for bad performance15:06
divVerenteven iOS, full of sqlite DBs everywhere, does not use much disk access requests per sec15:07
Lava_Croft' slow random read/write speeds of the ssd'15:07
Lava_Croftis what they say15:07
divVerentand android has less of that crap15:07
divVerenteven if it IS slow... why would you notice that from the UI15:07
Lava_Croftyou notice is from everywhere15:08
Lava_Croftwhich is the problem15:08
divVerentare you sure I/O is REALLY the issue, is what I am asking15:08
divVerentand not something else15:08
Lava_Crofti said supposedly :)15:08
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Lava_Crofti just read and relay here:)15:08
Lava_Croftcan be anything for all i knowp but its an actual thing since i experience it on my N715:09
divVerentthing is, these devices have lots of RAM, and all writes are cached15:09
Lava_Croftas do the 6 other people i know irl that have one15:09
divVerentso effectively they take place in background15:09
divVerentand reads should not be that much of an issue, and even if yes, only few times15:09
Lava_Croftnothing helps, except reflash15:09
divVerentuntil next reboot :P15:09
divVerentor does actually forcing the files to be cached and retrying "fix" the bad performance?15:10
divVerentlike, closing the slow opening app, and opening it again and it opens fast?15:10
divVerent(I mean actually killing, of course)15:10
Lava_Croftapparently people use that as a 'fix'15:11
Lava_Croftit just makes me cringe15:11
divVerentall this thing possibly does for/against performance...15:18
divVerentis clearing the write cache of the kernel :P15:18
divVerentwhat it does in no way "defragments" the SD card or anything15:18
divVerentand in case of VFAT, it makes your directory nodes bigger :P15:18
divVerentthis thing is useful though... for android VMs :P15:19
divVerentso you can clean out the free space to zeros, before compressing the VM image15:19
divVerentso if THIS thing really speeds stuff up...15:19
divVerentI'd rather consider rooting it and fixing the procfs values regarding caching :P15:20
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Win7Macchem|st, I have a new banner for TMO to place in ~10h:
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DocScrutinizer05divVerent: fragmentation15:55
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DocScrutinizer05even large files are not getting stored as consecutive anymore when storage starts to fragment15:55
DocScrutinizer05which drastically reduces the read and write speed15:56
DocScrutinizer05(only wild guessing)15:56
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DocScrutinizer05and yes, I'd accept reflashing and restoring all media data as a valid way to defragment storage15:59
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DocScrutinizer05that's what?16:05
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Lava_Croftgrabbag showcase of how android changed visually16:06
DocScrutinizer05know what _I_ dislike in that? The fact that _android_ changed, since usually *I* change such details to my liking16:07
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Lava_Croftwell, that the default looks changed over time is logical16:08
Lava_Croftand you can still change it to your liking, to a certain extent16:08
DocScrutinizer05I really can't cheer about arbitrary android manufacturers picked a larger or smaller font *for me* for the ever-same friggin clock on that "desktop"16:08
Lava_Croftits just funny how much better the default look it compared to the older ones16:08
Lava_Croftwell, yes, the android skins they use are awful16:09
Lava_Croftbut stock android has OK looks16:09
DocScrutinizer05I despise the 2it has skins" thinking. I want to create my own "skin"16:10
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Lava_Croftyes but not every user is a such a tinkerer16:10
Lava_Croftfrankly, most arent:)16:10
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DocScrutinizer05for givin you an idea: I have my KDE window bar separated from that think on bottom of KDE desktop and sitting on top of screen16:11
Lava_Croftso for them being able to change the theme/skin is quite nice already!16:11
Lava_Croftand makes them feel like a hacker, so16:11
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DocScrutinizer05and makes me feel like an alien on planet of apes16:11
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Lava_Crofti can relate to the mainstream folks, i have a shitload of them around me:P16:13
DocScrutinizer05honestly when even arranging their own individual "desktop" is too much for those users, why the heck do they need a SMARTphone at all?16:13
Lava_Croftmost of them dont give a shit about changing any skin at all16:13
Lava_Croftthey arrange icons on the homescreen16:13
DocScrutinizer05yeah, most of then also don't give a shit whose fart got recorded for that fart app, as long as it is 2ct cheaper than the other fart app16:14
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DocScrutinizer05or LOUDER16:14
Lava_Croftwell, i can affirm that i have not ever met anyone who had a fart app to show me16:15
Lava_Croftso idk :<16:15
DocScrutinizer05maybe jolla should sell other-halves with different fart sounds16:15
Lava_Crofti want other halves with smell16:15
Lava_Croftthat would be great16:15
Lava_Croftyou can have it smell like brick16:15
Lava_Croftwant to have a laugh?16:17
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divVerent14:55:39 DocScrutinizer05 | even large files are not getting stored as consecutive anymore when16:20
divVerent                          | storage starts to fragment16:20
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: but creating zero bytes files, filling the card, then deleting them does not defragment16:20
divVerentas it does not move the existing files16:20
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GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to go add some input to the questionnaire thread.16:26
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DocScrutinizer05divVerent: ack16:34
DocScrutinizer05who's claiming it does is a moron16:34
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: NB I didn't bother to look into any link that got posted here regarding that topic. I just contributed a random thought what might cause increasing slowness on an android device and how you could actually fix that16:38
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divVerentbasically, I do wonder if this tool actually helps - because if it does, a real fix is probably some vars in procfs related to disk cache16:39
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DocScrutinizer05optimizer tools always help, particularly when they're "free". After all the user feels happy for ahving found a "solution" to his problem that didn't cost him money16:41
DocScrutinizer05known as placebo effect16:41
DocScrutinizer05well known actually, since windows-3.1 times16:41
DocScrutinizer05and I adore to "help" those optimizer placebos, like crappatch ;-D16:42
DocScrutinizer05re crappatch: those pkgs actually seem to have adopted some formerly working POC patches maybe for diablo or whatever that got included to fremantle stock either from beginning or at very least starting from PR1.216:45
DocScrutinizer05e.g. cgroups16:46
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DocScrutinizer05and since original author had no idea about how those POC patches work, he wasn't capable to find them already implemented in contemporary maemo and happily nuked what already been there by his obsolete alternative16:48
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freemangordonwhat, speedpatch for android?16:50
freemangordonnice, /me likes that16:50
DocScrutinizer05which in best case actually works almost as good as it did before, and been verifiable to work, but neglected that a similar or better setting already existed on every fremantle system16:50
freemangordonvi__: hi, how's UI going?16:51
vi__engineers should not make guis!16:51
vi__It works but the overall feedback is it looks like ass.16:51
DocScrutinizer05engineers should have a gui-maker-bashing-day once a week16:52
vi__I heard there were riots in Sofia.  Is it true?16:52
DocScrutinizer05where they tell the guys who make GUI how to do it right16:52
vi__all you need is sh16:52
freemangordonvi__: yeah, I am participating. It is unbelieveable how EU media give no attention to that :(16:53
DocScrutinizer05wait, that's called usability crew16:53
vi__what is going on?  Is it actual rioting?16:53
vi__Or just peaceful demonstration?16:54
vi__Perhaps it is because Bulgaria is too close to home?16:54
freemangordonpeaceful demonstration, even some kind of party16:54
freemangordonvi__: could be, but still, it is dishonest16:54
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DocScrutinizer05who's demonstrating where for what? seems it's demontration seasons16:55
vi__I agree, I was merely offering some kind of explanation.16:55
vi__Apparently if you have $20 in your pocket and no debts you are amongst the richest on the planet.  It is nice to be in the 1%.16:55
vi__You want to dissolve your parliament?16:56
freemangordonvi__: for sure16:57
freemangordonvi__: it is unbelevable, but every day they do bigger mistake than the one they did the previous day16:57
vi__It seems crazy that people have to go to such lengths to get their own governments to just pay attention.16:57
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vi__You see turkey, syria and brazil are far away lands.16:58
vi__They are exotic.16:58
vi__Their governments are corrupt and that is the way it is in the undeveloped world.16:59
vi__Bulgaria is just too close to home.16:59
freemangordonhmm, I wouldn;t say turkey is far (in geographical sense)16:59
vi__freemangordon: correct, but it *feels* far away,16:59
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vi__The notion that our neighbours in Bulgaria are rallying is just 1 step closer to the central euro countries getting upset.17:00
vi__I am surprised there has not been an uprising in Germany.17:01
freemangordonvi__: it is sad that an old guy like me have to do the same he has done 20 years ago.17:01
vi__What with having to foot the bill for some half dozen european shit hole countries who forgot to collect any tax in the last 30 years.17:01
freemangordonvi__: half dozen? Oo17:02
vi__A little exaggeration for dramatic effect!17:02
freemangordonaah, ok :)17:02
freemangordonvi__: however, have to run.17:03
vi__Stay safe.17:03
freemangordonyeah, sure17:03
Lava_Crofti guess theres no uprising in germany because the germans know very well its their own fault they have to pay up for their friends17:07
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: thanks for link17:07
Lava_Croftit was well known that letting weak countries be part of the Euro would pose a serious risk17:07
Lava_Croftbut realism is not a fun gameplay element of politics17:08
freemangordonLava_Croft: demonstrations in BG has nothing to do with EU17:10
freemangordonit is "our" own intercountry fault17:10
freemangordononly about 50% voted on the last elections17:10
Lava_Croftwas referring to vi__ :)17:11
Lava_Croftyou have different problems17:11
freemangordonyeah. which are way worse than those in Germany ;)17:11
Lava_Croftits about time countries in your region get governments they can reasonably trust17:12
freemangordonLava_Croft: exactly what it is all about17:13
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Lava_Crofti know17:20
b-r-a-i-nhi guys.. good to be back17:21
DocScrutinizer05hi b-r-a-i-n17:21
b-r-a-i-ni had time to shake openpandora in my hands and glimpse of insane idea appeared in my mind. will it be nearly possible to create "upgrade" version of n900 motherboard?17:24
vi__yes, it is called the gta0417:28
b-r-a-i-nthats openmoko. good thing but insane price and design. and its not compatible with n900 case17:32
vi__perhaps I meant gta0517:32
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DocScrutinizer05check backlog for N90417:42
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DocScrutinizer05also I don't see how gta04 is insane priced, given the fact that my first N900 costs me ~600EUR as well17:43
wmaroneto be fair, the N900 cost $600 four years ago and came with a case. And back then its hardware was high end.17:48
b-r-a-i-ni  bought n900 in china for 130$17:53
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Lava_Croftits hardware was high end?17:56
Lava_Croftit wasnt really high end hw17:56
DocScrutinizer05gta04 is at least as highend as N900 been, for its class of completely FOSS and open documentation low volume "DIY" devices17:58
DocScrutinizer05you can't compete with pricetag of a samsung based on custom made chipset and display, unless you're willing to sell same volumes so you could afford similar but open and community driven production of your own custom made components18:00
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ecc3gis there a program that will blink the yellow LED depending on state+rate of charge? (say, fast blink during fast charge, normal blink when normal/slow charge, and slow blink when nearing full)?18:48
Lava_Croftsuperglue: the friend of my n900s18:52
DocScrutinizer05ecc3g: I planned sth like that, dunno why I never actually did it19:05
DocScrutinizer05might be some arbitrary limitation of the lp5523 kernel driver19:05
DocScrutinizer05*basically* you could write such a program as lp5523 engine "pattern program" that would work autonomously on lp5523 indicator LED control chip19:06
DocScrutinizer05ecc3g: the basic plot goes like this: read out battery voltage via lp5523 internal A/D-converter. Adjust blink frequency via an algorithm that compares battery voltage to some thresholds19:09
DocScrutinizer05alas neither kernel lp5523-driver nor mci support the needed functionality to control the lp5523 chip on that level19:10
Paliyou need to create all led patterns, then add them to mce.ini (there is some extras-devel tool for it, usbmode using it)19:12
Paliand then periodically read voltage or capacity from bq27200 chip and tell mce to switch to another led pattern19:12
Palibme replacement export all info via /sys and also via dbus (hal), so you can create app which wait for dbus signal and then tell mce led pattern19:13
Paliit could not be hard19:14
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DocScrutinizer05sure, but that's so... boring19:23
DocScrutinizer05when you could do same with just a few dozen bytes of LP5523 engine code19:25
DocScrutinizer05and that concept would work without any special kernel and even without any CPU support at all, since it runs autonomously on the LED controller19:26
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ecc3gthis would be "neat" and tell people quickly that their wall charger sucks... :(19:31
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, why don't you kick start an OMAP5 board for N900?20:04
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GeneralAntillesThese vote emails sure have brought the old accounts whining out of the woodwork.
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!20:56
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: meeting21:29
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Win7Macchem|st, merlin1991: meeting21:35
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!21:47
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Win7MacmIRC sucks23:03
Win7Macpotentially good offer for a N900 incl. all extras:
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DocScrutinizer05too good an offer ;-)23:19
DocScrutinizer05(to let it sit there for long)23:19
Win7Macguys, your thoughts please:
Win7Machehe, thought, you'd thought so23:20
DocScrutinizer05first notion: WAY too many friggin cookies on that website23:20
Win7Mac...looking for a MB23:21
Win7Mac^^ I know. But it's 2013...23:21
DocScrutinizer05second thought: can you repeat the question?23:24
DocScrutinizer05some guys hacking a DSLR23:24
DocScrutinizer05heard about it23:24
Win7MacI mean the community-drive...23:24
Win7MacTrammell Hudson started it all...23:25
DocScrutinizer05probably if I were into photography, I get involved into it23:25 a greater sense23:25
Win7Macopen community in general23:25
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DocScrutinizer05infobot is on the phone ;-)23:26
* DocScrutinizer05 waves23:27
* Win7Mac waves back23:28
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Win7Macthe video is an amazing visualisation. I don't expect that for maemo, but is there some kind of statistics about registrators, maemo- and TMO-visitors?23:31
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Win7MacDocScrutinizer05, are you diggin or is there no such?23:47
Win7Macmust be kept somewhere deep down the caves in midgard...23:54
GeneralAntillesActually, if you guys just want to CC me when you come up with a meeting date, I can announce it.23:58
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