IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-06-20

GeneralAntillesYeah, should be.00:02
GeneralAntillesJust gotta leverage myself out of bed on my day off. :D00:03
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sixwheeledbeasttissi: if you are still about ... "flopswap" and "I" recommend two swap spaces on uSD. However only one should be "active" at anyone time. Stripping swap (two active swap locations) is no use.00:59
sixwheeledbeastFlopSwap does all of this swapon swapoff for you. You only have to provide linux swap @ 0p3 1p2 and 1p3 and then use the GUI.01:02
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kerioDocScrutinizer51: "What do you own more than 5 of? Why?"01:19
kerion900s? :D01:19
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure there are many categories I could check that box for.01:22
GeneralAntillesMaemo devices might count.01:22
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freemangordonhi guys01:29
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Win7Machow ya like me now?:
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Win7Mac^^ formatting seems very counter-intuitive :(01:41
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sixwheeledbeast<<(18:46:13) DocScrutinizer05: if you can't reproduce this, then I'd be highly interested to hear about it>>
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sixwheeledbeastWin7Mac: formatting of the hyperlink?02:18
sixwheeledbeastIt's not ideal to have brackets or special chars in headings for this reason.02:20
Win7Macsomething like <nowiki/><FONT color="blue">1) ''question?''</font>02:20
Win7Macit pretends to be a WYSIWYG- editor, but it's not02:20
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Win7Macnot all options available from palette02:21
sixwheeledbeastwiki markup :)02:21
Win7Mac... or editor-options, whatever tools there02:22
Win7Macyeah markups...02:22
Win7Macnobody knows naything about it02:22
sixwheeledbeastThe <nowiki> is so the questions don't merge into the body of the question and so the color works.02:23
Win7Macnaything sounds funny, but I mean anything02:23
Win7Mac^ took that from woodys post02:23
Win7Macno idea that even existed02:24
sixwheeledbeastI am not too bad with it here's a quick guide
sixwheeledbeastI probably wouldn't have bothered with the color and used indents and italics for ease.02:27
Win7Macthanks, but honestly, it's 2013 and I'm not gonna memorize that wiki. There is an editor, it's just last century...02:28
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Win7Macthat's a wiki or a midgard thing?02:29
Win7MacI mean the editor is a *^?02:32
GeneralAntillesMediaWiki markup is the most common wiki markup. . . .02:33
sixwheeledbeastit's media wiki but it's very old version, I am happy with markup you get used to it.02:33
GeneralAntillesI'll probably go in and clean up all of the formatting.02:34
sixwheeledbeastYour more than welcome to check the formatting/content on all 1273 articles, if your bored! :P02:36
Win7MacOh shit. We won't gain many maintainers with such outdated tools - that's just too much of a hassle. I'm still hoping for midagard one fine day might updateable to latest version.02:36
Win7Mac*might be02:37
Win7Mac...without loosing all the data02:38
sixwheeledbeastEven the latest midgard isn't "easy" to understand, it's wiki anyway it's mostly user maintained. Bigger fish....02:38
Win7Macand auto-links and engines and whatnot02:39
* sixwheeledbeast thinks about the fact he's babysitting autobuilder everytime a package hits the devel repos....02:40
Win7MacA better GUI might do wonders, but no clue what's the difference02:40
Win7Macin versions.02:40
sixwheeledbeastmidgard NFC.02:41
sixwheeledbeastIt's all the things that integrate with midgard that also cause the PITA, in addition to nobody understanding midgard.02:43
Win7Mackinda got that already from joerg. Probably need to look around here?:
sixwheeledbeastIt would take months of man hours to rebuild maemo on another system. Anyway I am out, bedtime. TTFN.02:45
Win7Macalright, good night.02:46
robbiethe1stI'd just take Hildon, finish porting it to Debian and go from there02:46
GeneralAntillessixwheeledbeast, been there, done that. :)02:48
GeneralAntillesWell, it was fewer articles then.02:48
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sixwheeledbeastI still try and clean up the wiki as I go along. Using Special pages to clear out the rubbish etc ... anyway, gn. o/02:50
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Win7Macgn. o/03:30
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Bambi_BOFHhm... nokia... i've heard of them before somewhere :)08:22
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fw190morning Maemo ;)10:52
bertogghey, is extras-devel working fine?10:55
fw190yesterday it was working10:56
fw190I have updated pasta programs just fine ;)10:56
bertoggI uploaded a new package but it doesn't appear there yet10:56
fw190maybe there is still a problem wt autobuilder10:56
bertoggok, I'll just wait then10:57
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Win7Macgood morning!13:16
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bertogghey, is the autobuilder down?13:29
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DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: morning13:41
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Wizzupbertogg: I think it generally takes a long time for packages to appear13:49
bertoggWizzup: ok13:49
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DocScrutinizer05bertogg: simple: learn how autobuilder is supposed to work, become autobuilder maintainer, fix autobuilder, watch packages go to extras13:50
bertoggI'm not interested, I just wanted to know if it was a known problem or what13:52
bertoggthanks for the info13:52
DocScrutinizer05well, yes, to techstaff the problems with autobuilder and at large are known13:52
DocScrutinizer05this however doesn't mean we have somebody with sufficient expertise to fix those problems13:53
bertoggyes I understand13:53
bertoggI'm not blaming anyone ;) I just wanted to know what was going on13:54
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vi__Is it possible to control the vibration motor voltage?14:09
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vi__And therefore the motor frequency?14:11
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DocScrutinizer05no, and yes14:48
DocScrutinizer05not voltage but pulse width14:49
DocScrutinizer05vi__: echo 100 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030\:vibrator/brightness14:53
DocScrutinizer05yes, it's indeed a 'LED', don't ask me what those kernel devs smoked14:53
DocScrutinizer05vi__: or do you want to edit your mci vibrator profiles? then look into /etc/mci/mci.ini14:57
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DocScrutinizer05you can do nifty think there. with ramp-up and ramp-down times and whatnot else14:58
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DocScrutinizer05even actively *break* the vibrator motor by shorting it, aiui14:58
DocScrutinizer05not break like "defect" but like "stop it"14:59
DocScrutinizer05brake even14:59
DocScrutinizer05damn, this heat makes my speech processor throttle14:59
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DocScrutinizer05thus bake probably been right ;-P15:00
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: for twl4030\:vibrator/brightness you should avoid values <20 iirc. They might not kick off the vobra motor and thus cause huge powerdrain and heat15:04
DocScrutinizer05and I don't know what's maximum for that value (for indicator LED for example you easily can burnout the LED by setting current and brightness too high - similr situation might apply to vibra motor)15:06
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DocScrutinizer05logic max is 255 iirc15:07
DocScrutinizer05technical sweetspot seems around 130..16015:07
DocScrutinizer05(max effect)15:08
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DocScrutinizer05which reminds me that I managed to completely freeze the whole system with a cd /sys/class/leds/twl4030\:vibrator; while true; do echo 100 >brightness; echo 0 >brightness; done;15:14
DocScrutinizer05not even the shell executing that loop accepted a ^C anymore15:15
DocScrutinizer05but that's been a few years ago and probably even another platform15:15
DocScrutinizer05maybe nevertheless worth a test nowadays15:16
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DocScrutinizer05GOD!!! that pr1.2+/hostmode-kernel device sucks donkeyballs at booting15:19
DocScrutinizer05you can't boot dat shite with poweplug, always enetrs act_dead mode15:20
DocScrutinizer05after ages of black screen15:21
DocScrutinizer05actually an art to boot up that device when battery flat15:24
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DocScrutinizer05GRRR and bq27200 didn't calibrate despite my carefully checking VDQ:1 and stopping bme15:27
DocScrutinizer05      mv   RSOC CSOC mA   NAC  CACD CACT TTF   TTE   TEMP EDV1 LOW15:28
DocScrutinizer0519:34 2905 0    0    -15  0    0    0    65535 0     30  115:28
DocScrutinizer0519:35 2895 0    0    -17  0    0    0    65535 0     30  115:29
DocScrutinizer0519:41 2865 0    0    -15  0    0    0    65535 0     31  115:29
DocScrutinizer05Write failed: Broken pipe15:29
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DocScrutinizer0519:17 3004 5    5    -16  89   89   89   65535 323   30  115:30
DocScrutinizer0519:18 2999 0    0    -15  0    0    0    65535 0     30  115:30
DocScrutinizer05still, after boot:
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DocScrutinizer05also wtf, no diff on stock fremantle?15:41
DocScrutinizer05aka 2in messybox"?15:41
DocScrutinizer05look, another crystal clear indication for15:42
infobot[messybox] messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils15:42
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DocScrutinizer05this is why I think it's not a brilliant idea to try teach messybox new tricks, rather bring a proper shell with proper comprehensive unix tools to fremantle, for those who want a decent interactive shell15:44
DocScrutinizer05for those who are in fact not content with messybox since for example swapon missing parameters they would need during boot/systeminit, augmenting messybox to bb-p is probably the wrong idea either. You rather get a decent swapon binary and patch away messybox swapon applet via alternatives or whatever15:46
DocScrutinizer05busybox simply violates elementary unix design paradigms15:47
DocScrutinizer05basically busybox is like a ghettoblaster where you got cassette player, CD player, radio, battery, powersupply, speakers, antenna, headphone amp, everything in one box15:50
DocScrutinizer05for a certain usecase that's fine, but you can't augment, replace, or fix any of the components easily, and you always have to carry the whole cruft with you instead of just taking the things with you that your actually need15:52
DocScrutinizer05the unix toolbox concept however is 100% diametrically th eopposite of such design. You got zillions of small function blocks that can do just one thing but that one thing they are perfect in doing. And all those function blocks have same plugs for all inputs and outputs15:54
kerioDocScrutinizer05 ranting against busybox15:54
jogaswiss army knives aren't very good in whatever functionality they have..but at least all of it fits in the pocket15:55
DocScrutinizer05I'm basically not ranting against busybox, I'm ranting against those who think busybox needs to get improved15:55
DocScrutinizer05joga: which been the *ONLY* rationale why busybox got used for maemo15:56
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jogaguess so15:57
DocScrutinizer05and for that particular purpose of executing init scripts busybox is... almost perfect15:57
DocScrutinizer05but teaching busybox to become a proper interactive shell is like teaching a corgy to be a panther15:58
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jogasurely there's stuff to improve without ending up implementing all of said utilities again16:00
DocScrutinizer05hell, I know busybox from very first beta that got released, and i always wondered why the heck anybody would bother to build such thing. For embedded with scarce resources it makes sense, but then for such environment it doesn't make any sense at all to bloat busybox to a degree where it could compete with a true shell plus unix tools16:00
DocScrutinizer05and nothing on maemo needs to get re-implemented. We got all commandline tools either as package already or we can build them from source by pressing a button, a nobrainer.16:02
jogayeah, I meant in general that it should be improved as the army knife it is16:04
DocScrutinizer05no need for that either16:05
jogait's perfect already?16:05
DocScrutinizer05nobody wants to use it as an interactive shell anyway16:05
DocScrutinizer05so why improve it unless it has bugs16:05
jogasometimes using it has been the path of least resistance, so it could be less irritating16:06
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rikaneebut Busybox's ash syntax sux.16:06
rikaneethen again, most everything was in Upstart init syntax, which sux real hard.16:06
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rikaneeso I guess the OSSO team was full of… masochists?16:07
DocScrutinizer05look, when you get an account on a arbitrary new system, say maybe your new distro you installed, and you find it has cshell for your default shell, what will you do? will you try to improve csh so you can finally live with it, or do you simply do a sudo chsh -s /bin/bash <myself> ?16:07
jogaDocScrutinizer05, assuming bash is available, sure I'll just pick that :;16:09
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jogaheh I know a guy who uses twm because "it's the standard window manager" :)16:15
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: ^^^ see my above rant regarding busybox(-power)16:18
DocScrutinizer05I still fail to see why we need bb-p in cssu16:18
DocScrutinizer05if somebody is so in love with bb-p that (s)he prefers it over bash, then (s)he is free to install in to /usr/bin/ash2 or /usr/bin/busybox-power or whatever, and make it their default shell.16:20
ecc3gugh...dont remind me. my employer uses csh and it's pretty much forced upon.  chsh to bash breaks a lot of scripts and not worth the effort to fix, so I learned to cope with the frustrations of csh...16:20
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DocScrutinizer05is your employer ericsson or st-micro? ;-P16:22
ecc3gno but thanks for giving me reasons to avoid those companies =p16:22
DocScrutinizer05or does your job have anything to do with android?16:23
ecc3gandroid uses csh??!?!16:23
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DocScrutinizer05(not all in android is csh based, but parts or certain forks seem to be)16:23
ecc3gHmm... think I should go buy a cheap android phone to play with...16:24
jaskathey should make busybox include csh!16:24
DocScrutinizer05e.g part of the fork used in st-e16:24
ecc3goh god...16:24
jaska(sorry, trolling)16:24
ecc3gheh :)16:24
Win7MacBoD-meeting info:
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DocScrutinizer05re that pr1.2++/hostmode-kernel system I mentioned above: it really gives me a laugh each time I boot it and it comes up with a chime and a notifier "384 new mails", sth that it never does during the rest of uptime. Seems modest never again gets started, but one time during hildon-startup it does check for new mail16:27
Win7MacGeneralAntilles: leveraged?16:35
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tzafrirso, any idea what I should do with my n900 that most of the times won't ring?16:57
tzafrirWhen it does ring, it uses the default ring tone and not the ring tone I set it to use16:58
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DocScrutinizer05maybe reflash?17:12
DocScrutinizer05tbh you rproblems sound like sth wrong with your $HOME17:14
DocScrutinizer05have you updated to cssu-t8 ?17:14
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DocScrutinizer05what does your mount show for eMMC? aka mmcblk0p217:15
DocScrutinizer05wow, wtf goes on on repo?17:17
DocScrutinizer05hmm, somebody mirroring or spidering * it seems17:21
Win7MacBTW, is the new switch already in place?17:25
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tzafrirDocScrutinizer05, /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (noatime,nodiratime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback)17:38
tzafrirI'm on the testing community repo17:39
tzafrirtried upgrading with apt-get . libstdc++ and libgcc1 were not up-to-date and apt-get was having problems with updating them17:46
tzafrirInstalled aptitude. aptitude upgrade worked17:46
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tzafrirI'm trying to change something in the Phone settings in the Settings. I press Save, but when I go back, the old value is used.17:52
tzafrirWhere are the settings saved?17:52
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tzafrirmaybe that *and* a reboot fixed it.18:00
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DocScrutinizer05what, you updated libstdc++ and libgcc?18:06
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vi__The reason I asked about the motor was some stupid idea I was thinking about using it as a speaker.18:08
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Woody14619Off to lunch... o/18:25
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RaimuWhy is there a character limit in modest?19:27
RaimuSome of the monthly e-mail aggregates I receive trigger a "character limit reached" warning on modest.19:28
RaimuI'm checking some of the documentation on the app and this limit isn't mentioned as far as I can find.19:29
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: Did you see <<<<(20/06/13 00:15:35) sixwheeledbeast: <<(18:46:13) DocScrutinizer05: if you can't reproduce this, then I'd be highly interested to hear about it>>>>>>19:37
DocScrutinizer05err yes19:37
DocScrutinizer05which system, which kernel?19:38
sixwheeledbeastwhat do you think, I have done this on two of my devices. Both CSSU-S and KP5219:38
DocScrutinizer05cssu-t and stock kernel here19:38
DocScrutinizer05maybe somebody "fixed" that in PK?19:39
sixwheeledbeastDoes the KP fix this? Should I ping Pali?19:39
DocScrutinizer05after all it's a long known annoyance19:39
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DocScrutinizer05even heritage from diablo19:40
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DocScrutinizer05check changelog for "persistent devicenames" or sth similar19:40
sixwheeledbeastkernel powers changelog is located where, in source?19:42
sixwheeledbeasthmm.. source is missing in package interface19:44
RaimuHmh, found it in sources but still didn't pick up what limitation it is19:44
Raimu(Sorry, talking about this modest thing)19:45
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sixwheeledbeastwill look later going afk19:48
Win7MacAnybody knows something about tweaking flash version on N9?:
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RaimuMaybe people on #meego might know?20:14
DocScrutinizer05or on #harmattan20:16
DocScrutinizer05~weather EDDN20:17
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2013.06.20 1650 UTC; Dew Point: 66 F (19 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.83 in. Hg (1010 hPa); Relative Humidity: 58%; Temperature: 82 F (28 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the W (280 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT)20:17
Win7Macno activity on #meego + #harmattan20:17
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DocScrutinizer05in #meego there've been ~10 lines on 13. and 15., and one line on 16.20:32
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DocScrutinizer05#armattan has some lines every day at least20:33
Lava_Croftsounds like my n900 n9 usage20:39
Lava_Crofteven tho the n9 has the sim20:39
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Win7Macposted in both channels - no response. I hope for TMO...20:51
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Win7Maccan't this be done on N9?:
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_rdIs anybody using navit from "deb chinook user" ?23:23
_rdI get23:23
_rddpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/navit_svn-5539_armel.deb (--unpack):23:23
_rd corrupted filesystem tarfile - corrupted package archive23:23
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DocScrutinizer05chinook? hardly23:28
DocScrutinizer05why not diablo?23:29
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Win7Macfurther ideas to tweak flash version?
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DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: a extra huge thankyou for taking care about all that mess23:56
DocScrutinizer05and indeed it's extremely sad that we are no step further than where we been 9 months ago, with that HiFo baby23:57
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