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| xes | rtcom-messaging-ui scoll: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68579 It seems that my device suffers the same disease... Anyone discovered what is causing this behavior? | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| freemangordon | xes: did you install some modifications to .css or .js files? | 00:06 |
| freemangordon | did you make some changes? | 00:06 |
| freemangordon | (like portrait support or whatever? | 00:06 |
| freemangordon | ) | 00:06 |
| xes | the only mod is portrait support | 00:07 |
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| xes | .. already tried to remove that but the behavior remains unchanged | 00:08 |
| freemangordon | xes: latest CSSU brings its own portrait support, I guess there is a conflict between those two | 00:08 |
| freemangordon | try to apt-get install --reinstall rtcom-messaging-ui | 00:08 |
| xes | already done, but le me try one more time | 00:09 |
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| freemangordon | xes: check for some dpkg magic (.dist-new or whatever) | 00:09 |
| freemangordon | xes: make sure you have the stock files installed | 00:09 |
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| xes | yep. the strange part is that i was expecting to still have the mouse cursor enable/disable with the swipe from left.. but nothing | 00:11 |
| freemangordon | xes: wait, what? | 00:11 |
| freemangordon | in messaging ui?!? | 00:12 |
| xes | am i wrong? to select text... | 00:12 |
| freemangordon | xes: NFC, I've never know that's possible | 00:13 |
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| freemangordon | xes: find the source of your modifications and check what gets modified, that way you'll have a clue what to restore | 00:17 |
| freemangordon | xes: sorry, can't help further now | 00:17 |
| xes | freemangordon: http://www.google.it/imgres?um=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:it-IT:unofficial&hl=it&biw=1601&bih=876&tbm=isch&tbnid=xnrH6E1hA2FOkM:&imgrefurl=http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php%3Ft%3D37865&docid=gL0Bgv4f-ESGZM&itg=1&imgurl=http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4345/smsselect.png&w=800&h=480&ei=Dn2_UZK-D8XEPJH4gMgH&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:0,s:0,i:83&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=174&tbnw=290&start=0&ndsp=1&tx=178&ty=81 | 00:18 |
| xes | sorry for the lonk link, direct reference to image seems vanished | 00:19 |
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| HtheB | anyone alive here? | 00:28 |
| ecc3g | nope, all zombies here. | 00:28 |
| HtheB | great! just what I was looking for! | 00:28 |
| ecc3g | braaiinnz.... | 00:28 |
| HtheB | i need some help with compiling something for maemo/harmattan | 00:29 |
| peetah | ~ | 00:29 |
| HtheB | i dont know if something is wrong with my setup or the sources | 00:29 |
| HtheB | i want to compile sowatch | 00:29 |
| HtheB | https://gitorious.org/sowatch | 00:30 |
| HtheB | It's really strange. It says libsowatch is missing. But this file is created by itself | 00:30 |
| HtheB | i dont know if anybody else can compile it for me though | 00:30 |
| xes | freemangordon: tried again the rtcomm-ui-messaging reinstall. Nothing. Removed the css and js files restoring manually the original but still nothing. I don't think it's related to these files.. :( | 00:32 |
| HtheB | :( | 00:32 |
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| BCMM | i've re-flashed my n900 following filesystem corruption and it doesn't seem to be booting at all | 01:07 |
| BCMM | just the five-dots progress animation forever | 01:08 |
| BCMM | what should i do? | 01:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | full reflash | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | T8 the mega disaster | 01:14 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: what on earth happened? | 01:16 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: by full reflash, do you mean MyDocs too? | 01:17 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: if so, i have a bit of a problem | 01:20 |
| BCMM | i didn't backup MyDocs before reflashing because i didn't think i'd be reflashing MyDocs | 01:20 |
| BCMM | is there any way i can get MyDocs mounted over USB from this state? | 01:20 |
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| danko | :-D | 01:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: rescueOS | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or BM | 01:57 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i don't know what either of those are - can i use them now, or are those things i should have set up before it got broken? | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: what happened? it seems a patch to initscripts caused fsck to destroy /home during boot | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 01:58 |
| infobot | it has been said that backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 01:58 |
| BCMM | ah | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need to install | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~rescueos | 01:58 |
| infobot | well, rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can use any time, given you have a working USB | 01:58 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: ah, rescueOS is basically a minimal initramfs for rescue purposes, that i can load with the flasher? | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kudos to nin101 | 02:01 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: thanks! when you said "full reflash", do you mean that i need to clear MyDocs too? | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically only /home, but there's no VANILLA that would leave MyDocs untouched | 02:01 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: ok. i'll use rescueOS to save stuff my stuff from MyDocs, then do a full reflash with a VANILLA image | 02:02 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: is CSSU fixed yet or should i avoid installing that for a bit? | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry for the inconvenience | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *allegedly* T8.2 is fixed | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I can't say _anything_ for sure | 02:03 |
| BCMM | i think i might install stable. i guess i'm only not on stable because it didn't exist when i installed CSSU | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 02:04 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the assistnace | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 02:04 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: btw is it possible to "downgrade" CSSU to CSSU stable? my GFs phone is on CSSU but hasn't blown up yet | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, basically not | 02:06 |
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| ds3 | anyone remember off hand how much does the battery needs to drain to get a reset/recal so bnf can produce useable info? | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even id cssu-t maybe offers an "uninstall" feature, I strongly suggest to not use it. It's been reported to completely mess up your system to the point where only full reflash will help | 02:07 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: whats the sanest way to downgrade? use the backup utility to save a list of installed programs and whatnot? | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: anyway for downgrading to cssu-s you probably don't need to reflash VANILLA, so the process should be painless. Just do a proper BM backup *and* a osso-backup (standard app for backup), flash rootfs aka COMBINED, then install cssu-s and restore form osso-backup all your apps | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly :-) | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *should* work painlessly for all I can tell | 02:10 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i didn't understand all of that, but i think when i read these logs in the morning, i will :) | 02:10 |
| BCMM | just wanted to know the phone's not totally screwed before i go to bed :) | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the phone is basically fine, just your /home partition is messed up (corripted fs) | 02:12 |
| BCMM | yeah, i mean the contents (that i should have backed up) | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I can't give any guaranty, I'd bet that MyDocs is OK | 02:13 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i really can't see why it wouldn't be | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just mounted to /home and thus you have problems to access it now | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/to/in/ | 02:13 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: it's just mounted in /home and thus you have problems to access it now | 02:13 |
| BCMM | oh, i see | 02:14 |
| BCMM | hmm | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and since /opt is also a link to /home/opt, your system acts "funny2 now | 02:14 |
| BCMM | home is pretty much totally nuked after i tried to fsck it. does the nokia backup program do arbitrary dotfiles or just stuff on some list somewhere? | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the nokia osso-backup only does "a list" | 02:16 |
| HtheB | doc, can you compile for harmattan at the moment? | 02:18 |
| HtheB | apps* | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | programs can add themselves resp their data files to that "list" | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HtheB: no | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never could | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry | 02:19 |
| HtheB | i cant find anybody that can compile something for me | 02:21 |
| HtheB | guys at #harmattan are dead i guess | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask GeneralAntilles, iirc he been evry active with sowatch | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | very* | 02:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope, not useful for compiling things. | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 02:24 |
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| Bambi_BOFH | DocScrutinizer05: thanks, will check it out | 02:33 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 is idly watching a sftp:// c&p from n900:MyDocs to PC (in konqueror) | 08:40 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 also noticed that BM obviously NOT does updates of /home/user | 08:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously copying 16403 files / 15GB from MyDocs to PC via sftp and wlan takes ~3:30 | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3:30:00 | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe I should augment my rsync cronjob to include MyDocs | 08:45 |
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| divVerent | anyway, to everyone: I figured out the openmediaplayer issue | 09:50 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: hmm? | 09:50 |
| divVerent | 1. it is not fault of omap stuff... it happens for ffmpeg decoded stuff too | 09:50 |
| divVerent | u/v plane swap | 09:50 |
| divVerent | i.e. red blue swap | 09:50 |
| divVerent | and it only happens in openmediaplayer's zoomed in view | 09:51 |
| divVerent | so basically, the mafw-gst-renderer video overlay can break in this way when zooming in | 09:52 |
| divVerent | it probably was always like that, I normally did not use the zoomed in view | 09:52 |
| divVerent | I did once, and the bug happens for some but nolt all videos then | 09:53 |
| divVerent | is there interest in an affected video? | 09:53 |
| divVerent | PROBABLY the only thing that triggers the bug is the resolution of the video | 09:53 |
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| n900-dk_ | Anyone experienced spontanous reboot when you disable wifi? | 09:54 |
| divVerent | never... and I did that a lot | 09:55 |
| divVerent | does it hang before the reboot for 1 min? | 09:55 |
| divVerent | and did you try "the other kernel"? | 09:56 |
| divVerent | i.e. kernel-power if you used the default one and vice versa | 09:56 |
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| divVerent | but that bug was annoying... I almost would have reflashed | 10:02 |
| n900-dk_ | it reboots imidiately, when I press the wifi icon | 10:03 |
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| divVerent | even with other kernel? | 10:03 |
| n900-dk_ | I'm not sure, what you mean by other kernel.. I'm on power52 | 10:05 |
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| divVerent | then try the nokia kernel | 10:05 |
| divVerent | just once, to rule out it is the issue | 10:06 |
| divVerent | or are you on CSSU-thumb? then you do not have this choice any more I think | 10:06 |
| n900-dk_ | Dont want to reflash just because of this issue. | 10:06 |
| divVerent | no need to reflash for that | 10:06 |
| divVerent | on which CSSU level are you? | 10:06 |
| n900-dk_ | Running CSSU-Testing | 10:06 |
| divVerent | ok | 10:06 |
| divVerent | in your applications list there is an icon called "Nokia Kernel" | 10:06 |
| divVerent | right? | 10:06 |
| n900-dk_ | yes | 10:06 |
| divVerent | run that | 10:06 |
| divVerent | then reboot (it probably does that for you) | 10:07 |
| divVerent | then it changes the kernel to the default one and reboots | 10:07 |
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| n900-dk_ | but this issue doesn't show up every time, I disable wifi | 10:07 |
| divVerent | if that fixes it, you know it is a kernel-power bug | 10:07 |
| divVerent | then try running with nokia kernel for a few days | 10:07 |
| divVerent | BTW, when you do that | 10:07 |
| divVerent | the icon will change to Power Kernel | 10:07 |
| divVerent | which will allow you to go back | 10:07 |
| divVerent | also, did you do any settings for kernel-power? | 10:08 |
| divVerent | like overclocking? | 10:08 |
| divVerent | if yes, try undoing that first | 10:08 |
| n900-dk_ | Ok, I will | 10:08 |
| divVerent | even this smartreflex thing may be worth trying to turn off | 10:09 |
| divVerent | speaking of which, I have not turned it ON since last reflash yet :P | 10:09 |
| n900-dk_ | smartreflex? | 10:09 |
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| divVerent | n900-dk_: if you do not know what it is, you did not touch it | 10:10 |
| divVerent | so that is good | 10:10 |
| divVerent | it is a checkbox in e.g. QCpuFreq or the kernel-power settings file | 10:10 |
| divVerent | which should save some battery | 10:10 |
| divVerent | by more intelligently selecting the CPU core voltages | 10:10 |
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| n900-dk_ | aha | 10:11 |
| divVerent | I just know that when enabling it I get a warning that it makes some N900s randomlyh crash | 10:12 |
| divVerent | it works for mine though | 10:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: or not | 10:45 |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: which part? the battery saving? indeed never measured | 10:47 |
| divVerent | but I do like using lower voltages, and if that only means better life time of the CPU (and THAT one is obvious) | 10:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well... | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so far nobody has done tests with SR afaik | 11:44 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: wrong, vi did it | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *decent* tests particularly | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and where are the docs describing the test setup and the results? | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd be *really* extremely interested in them | 11:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sorry, it was caveman, not vi | 11:47 |
| freemangordon | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81580 | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should be rather easy to run a nice A/B compare test, switching off WLAN and GSM, then running bq27200.sh 5 >with-SR.log, and another without-SR.log | 11:47 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: see that thread | 11:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf, profiles | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that tells zilch, in the end | 11:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since I have no clue what those profiles actually do, I'd bet they do more than just enabling SR while keeping same core voltage as without SR | 11:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: dsp profile has SR enabled, min-max 250-805 | 11:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it is not like that, she couldn't be half pregnant :) | 11:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nonsense | 11:57 |
| freemangordon | SR is eigher enabled or not. once enabled it controls the voltages for all OPPS | 11:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't need to run bogus undervolt profile youst to enable SR | 11:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, so what? | 11:57 |
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| freemangordon | *either | 11:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the idea of SR (this small part of SR) that the core voltage gets controlled by hardware via dedicated I2C rather than by software via general purpose I2C | 11:58 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sure. what is your point? | 11:59 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the difference is that with SR enabled it: | 11:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't stop you from setting SR profile to use same voltage on max closckspeed that the system would use when SR was disabled | 12:00 |
| freemangordon | 1. uses calibration values to calculate the "correct" voltages for that particular device | 12:00 |
| freemangordon | 2. voltage "oscilates" around that pont | 12:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since otherwise you would test undervolting more than SR | 12:00 |
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| freemangordon | *point | 12:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway that article with those friggin profiles even seems to introduce OC | 12:01 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: SR doesn't work like that, you just give him calibrations and initial voltage for a particular OPP | 12:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and, on a sidenote, I think mp3 is not a generally valid test for all usecases | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly via mplayer | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't work like what? | 12:03 |
| freemangordon | no matter what the initial voltage is (assumming it is not too low, so the MPU would block before SR has chance to increase it). you end up in similar voltages for an OPP every time | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eh? | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my logic doesn't work like that | 12:04 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no idea about your logic, but this is how SR works | 12:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 12:05 |
| freemangordon | hmm? | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you suggest SR works like an unparsable statement then I have to disagree | 12:05 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no point to argue, I know what I am talking about, I spent more than half an year reading docs etc | 12:05 |
| freemangordon | and playing with the driver in the meanwhile | 12:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? you're not even able to post a parsable statement here then? | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: imagine PID regulator | 12:06 |
| freemangordon | which exactly part you cannot parse? I can elaborate or rephrase | 12:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I *know*: there's a dedicated I2C labeled "SR" from CPU to Power management chip. The CPU adjusts the LDO for core voltage (and others?) via that dedicated SR-I2C automatically, when SR is enabled. There's also a "general purpose" I2C to PM chip that is used to configure same LDOs under software control, when SR is disabled (e.g. during bootup) | 12:10 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: wrong, it is not CPU that adjust voltages, there is dedicated HW to do that | 12:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* the voltage steps for SR are in a table in RAM, and CPU clock generator decides which entry from that table to use , based on CPU clock speed | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BS | 12:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | CPU aka SoC is adjusting the woltage | 12:11 |
| rikanee | freemangordon: IIRC there are different generations of SR | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually the PRM in SOC | 12:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | look at schematics to find the I2C labeled "SmartRefelx" | 12:12 |
| rikanee | there's one that has SR under full software control, then a newer one with the AP telling the power reg that it's going into LP mode, and Reg deciding in voltage, and the newest one has SR fully automatic within the SoC, as long as you toggle the sysfs entry. | 12:13 |
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| divVerent | way more interesting than benchmarking SR battery use, would be finding out which components ACTUALLY use the battery how much | 12:15 |
| divVerent | like, is the CPU even a relevant contribution | 12:15 |
| divVerent | or is it usually the screen | 12:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GAIA N4200, pins I2C.SR.SDA I2C.SR.SCL | 12:15 |
| rikanee | divVerent: powertop running while locked vs powertop running while "make -j128" ;) | 12:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course the screen, divVerent | 12:16 |
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| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: basically, I wonder under which workload CPU use matters | 12:17 |
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| divVerent | sure, playing mp3s with mplayer with screen turned off and offline mode, but who does that | 12:17 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: exactly, it is SoC, not CPU | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the general purpose for software control of LDOs are directly above I2C.CTL.SDA I2C.CTL.SCL | 12:17 |
| rikanee | divVerent: power = heat, and when your palms start to sweat running Debian on N900, then you may be burning power. | 12:17 |
| divVerent | rikanee: yes | 12:17 |
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| divVerent | but CPU heat and display backlight heat are still the same heat | 12:17 |
| freemangordon | rikanee: and what is used in n900 is pure WH control | 12:17 |
| divVerent | I doubt the backlight has a good efficiency | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | *HW | 12:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ok, if you wanna play smartass then take this: YES it IS a cpu: the Power and Reset Management CPU | 12:18 |
| rikanee | freemangordon: ah, thanks for clarifying that | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption | 12:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The backlight generally iumplies other stuff. | 12:19 |
| divVerent | fmtx just 19mA? wow | 12:19 |
| rikanee | divVerent: the LCD and backlight are naturally, large power burners. | 12:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Namely that the LCD panel is active, and the OMAP GPU unit is fething data from RAM, and painting it to screen constantly. | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: THAT MUCH, for a friggin 5nW? | 12:20 |
| SpeedEvil | The actual LEDs that illuminate the screen - unless on maximum brightness - may not be a large component | 12:20 |
| freemangordon | rikanee: on OPP switch - SR is disabled, new initial voltage is loaded in twl, calibration values are loaded in the appropriate regs, SR is enabled. that's all | 12:20 |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: 5nW? really that low? | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe uW | 12:21 |
| SpeedEvil | It's nW | 12:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but really low | 12:21 |
| SpeedEvil | And I think it's 30/50 or so | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: last time I checked CPU stands for Central Processing Unit | 12:21 |
| divVerent | wait, the fmtx is that low... so using higher tx power is sure legal then :P | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | in my book power management processor is not CPU | 12:21 |
| SpeedEvil | divVerent: No | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | (in n900 that is) | 12:22 |
| divVerent | the legal limit is something in mW | 12:22 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_FM_radio_transmitter#Typical_Range | 12:22 |
| SpeedEvil | divVerent: nW | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh, in freemangordon's book a asymmetrical multiprocessing environment has only one CPU | 12:22 |
| SpeedEvil | 15/50nW | 12:22 |
| SpeedEvil | divVerent: Read above | 12:22 |
| SpeedEvil | There are around a dozen CPUs in the n900. | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I'd bet on | 12:23 |
| rikanee | anyone able to tap into the on-board FM antenna and hook it up to a RF amplifier? | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | half of them in SoC | 12:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Taking as CPU - a turing complete machine able to run stored programs. | 12:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Including the LED controller. | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's even a security CPU in SoC | 12:23 |
| divVerent | I see | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, when freemangordon tries to educate me about it's not (the ALU or stackpointer register of) the main CPU that controls SR, then ... | 12:25 |
| HtheB | hi all | 12:25 |
| rikanee | ohai HtheB. | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rikanee: sorry? | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "tap into"? | 12:27 |
| HtheB | o/ | 12:27 |
| HtheB | sup | 12:27 |
| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: it seems that it's difficult to expose the copper and attach an antenna to the N900's on-board FM antenna. | 12:28 |
| rikanee | HtheB: got off uni early because of flood warnings, but I'm now stuck with reading up journals for a paper D: | 12:28 |
| divVerent | anyway... display is probably still a huge waste :P typically only 10% of the energe become light | 12:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, last time I read about it (2 days ago) I seen a copper stripe aerial in case that's touching a contatc pad on PCB with a spring | 12:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, with LED this might be a tad better, until most of the light gets absorbed by shut LCD cells | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and color filters | 12:30 |
| HtheB | flood warning?! | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 12:30 |
| HtheB | flood as in: tsunami? | 12:30 |
| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: mmm. time to retrace the aerial array on the N900 when I have time. the FM antenna sucks, big time. | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the TX power sucks | 12:30 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: polarisers - another half | 12:30 |
| rikanee | RX is pretty bad too. | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: indeed | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RX is via headphone cable | 12:31 |
| rikanee | HtheB: tropical storm, gets up to 3-4 feet at the uni. | 12:31 |
| SpeedEvil | The ideal best case is 1/6th of the light gets out. | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rikanee: where are youß | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 12:31 |
| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: Philippines. | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 12:32 |
| SpeedEvil | REad the links in the FMTX page - there are unfortunately good reasons to only allow truly tiny powers. | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I seen a minor storm in Taipei | 12:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no real fun | 12:32 |
| rikanee | SpeedEvil: regulatory agencies aren't fun :( | 12:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: I still doubt that's any sensible rationale | 12:33 |
| HtheB | rikanee, so is it false alarm? | 12:34 |
| HtheB | i mean, did the storm happen? | 12:34 |
| rikanee | HtheB: it's raining hard atm, in 30 minutes I wouldn't leave the flat ;) | 12:34 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: It is actually. The amount of power needed to disrupt a FM receiver listening to a good signal at the edge of its coverage is quite tiny. | 12:34 |
| HtheB | rikanee, hmmm :( | 12:35 |
| HtheB | hey rikanee, a bit offtopic though. can you compile harmattan apps? | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: yes, but still the power of a TX goes down exponentially with distance | 12:35 |
| rikanee | HtheB: unfortunately, even since the Nokia wiki went down, I'm left with a broken Harmattan SDK. | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather **3 | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: Sure - so does the other transmitter. | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | err - 2 | 12:36 |
| rikanee | I'll get around to fixing it this weekend, and snapshotting the build VM for future reference. | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless it's a near-field magnetic transmitter. | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the other transmitter is km away | 12:36 |
| HtheB | rikanee, there is a mirror... | 12:36 |
| HtheB | :P | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why those transmitters use hundreds of watts output | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer05: yes - and if you are talking about a reciever at the edge of its reception zone, you can actually disrupt that with nanowatts of signal. | 12:37 |
| SpeedEvil | The OFGEN presentation on this is good, and to the point. | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, when the nW transmitter is as close as a few meters | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | franksly, every hairdryer motor emits a few nW real noise on that particular frequency | 12:38 |
| HtheB | lol | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to me that regulation is biased | 12:39 |
| divVerent | sure it is | 12:40 |
| divVerent | the distance of the fmtx is barely sufficient for car use | 12:40 |
| divVerent | does not even always work properly there | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 12:41 |
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| divVerent | works better in Switzerland than in Germany though | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the intention of that regulation been to render those transmitters basically useless | 12:41 |
| divVerent | less clogged frequencies | 12:41 |
| divVerent | rephrase: to make those transmitters unable to disturb radio receivers of others | 12:42 |
| divVerent | this basically sets a 4m distance limit already | 12:42 |
| divVerent | so you cannot force your neighbor's radio to rickroll them | 12:42 |
| divVerent | basically, IMHO this was solved the wrong way | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: even the radio of the car next to yours, at the traffic light | 12:42 |
| divVerent | the real solution would have been reserving a frequency band for those transmitters | 12:42 |
| divVerent | and maybe 10x the power (for 3x the distance) | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, should've used collision detect | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | The intention is so that it doesn't screw up people listening to distant stations. | 12:43 |
| divVerent | not even needed there | 12:43 |
| divVerent | just reserve a few frequencies FM stations no longer use | 12:43 |
| divVerent | just, exactly this was not possible in e.g. Germany | 12:43 |
| divVerent | because ALL the frequencies are used | 12:43 |
| rikanee | I can imagine the chaos a guy with a high-power RF frontend and a USRP can do. | 12:43 |
| divVerent | just look at the FM frequency table for e.g. frankfurt | 12:43 |
| divVerent | the largest distance between two adjacent stations is 0.2 MHz | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, back when we did pirate radio, we had severe problems to cover a 3km radius with a 15W FM transmitter | 12:44 |
| divVerent | still, using the FM radio band for such purposes is plain abuse, we all agree on that | 12:44 |
| divVerent | if only car radios had Line-In | 12:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | some do | 12:45 |
| divVerent | very few, yes | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | checkout motorola usb carkit | 12:45 |
| rikanee | divVerent: in-car BT, line-in or USB are essentials for head units nowadays. | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and cry | 12:45 |
| divVerent | rikanee: in the long run, this could indeed solve it | 12:46 |
| divVerent | just most people do not have brand new cars | 12:46 |
| divVerent | mine is from 2007, has CD and MP3, no line in, no USB | 12:46 |
| divVerent | also... many car radios don' | 12:46 |
| divVerent | t even have real USB but just "ipod dock" | 12:46 |
| rikanee | divVerent: I'm currently saving up $250 to buy a nice, factory-looking replacement head unit. | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually line-in on car radio has its very own idiosyncrasies (topic ground loop) | 12:47 |
| * chainsawbike thinks all you need is an amp connected to the headphone jack... | 12:47 | |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: ground loop? the thing that shouldn't even happen if it were built right? | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 12:47 |
| rikanee | slight annoyance from Toyota integrating the head unit panel with the rest of the console. | 12:47 |
| divVerent | as in, a single capacitor at the right point would already fix it? | 12:47 |
| divVerent | (apart from a pop noise when plugging in) | 12:48 |
| divVerent | how stable is the 12V voltage in the car' | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: alas not since car ground"-plane" has lots of noise | 12:48 |
| divVerent | s connector BTW? | 12:48 |
| divVerent | "very unstable" or "white noise"? | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | very instable | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with extreme spikes | 12:48 |
| divVerent | spikes, even? ugh | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it fried several GTA02 via cheap USB car chargers | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when starting engine | 12:49 |
| divVerent | as for audio transmission though... is it so hard to use the voltage DIFFERENCE between the 3.5mm GND and L/R pins? | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually not | 12:50 |
| divVerent | (ok, this would mean not grounding the GND... which should be allowed, though, or a battery based walkman would already violate it) | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but to make absolutely sure your mobile device doesn't smoke up, you need galvanically decoubled GND | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | decoupled | 12:50 |
| divVerent | yes, i.e. not grounding it | 12:50 |
| divVerent | like e.g. the tape deck adaptors do | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 12:51 |
| divVerent | too bad there are no "CD deck adaptors" :P | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas many 'cheap' line-in devices don't do this | 12:51 |
| divVerent | wonder how these even COULD work, if at all | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 12:51 |
| divVerent | probably not at all | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | good joke | 12:51 |
| divVerent | as making an infite looped CD is simply not possible | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme think | 12:51 |
| divVerent | given the head moves during playback | 12:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe a IR-LED would already suffice? | 12:52 |
| divVerent | the tape adaptors avoid it by not having a tape to be turned :P | 12:52 |
| divVerent | IR-LED with proper circuitry would work... for 74 minutes :P | 12:52 |
| divVerent | it also would need to move together with the reading head of the drive | 12:52 |
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| divVerent | and I see no way to avoid the "CD size" limit, no matter how clever the CD emulating circuit is | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, the head is moved by guiding gap | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so you could keep it stationary | 12:53 |
| divVerent | wait, a sufficiently broken CD-ROM can make the CD drive not move its head? | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 12:53 |
| divVerent | I know this works for Vinyl disks, but for CD? | 12:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | commonly known as "your CD hangs" | 12:54 |
| divVerent | for vinyl, all you need is a ring instead of a spiral | 12:54 |
| divVerent | oh right, CDs are recorded as spirals too... | 12:54 |
| divVerent | so chances are the drive would indeed never notice | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for CD all you need is a scratch and a poorly adjusted CD-player | 12:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 12:54 |
| divVerent | so emulating an infinite CD may even be possible | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 12:55 |
| divVerent | well, almost... there is this addressing info on the CD sectors | 12:55 |
| divVerent | by which the drive knows where it is | 12:55 |
| divVerent | this has to be incremented at each sector... wonder how high that limit is | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but the drive readout logic resyncs when the head forcefully is relocated to the start of CD | 12:55 |
| divVerent | also, what would happen when trying to seek :P | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | trying to seek gets nasty | 12:56 |
| divVerent | these tape deck adaptors kinda can take that | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it would detect end of CD and stop playback | 12:56 |
| divVerent | except that the seeking will never stop :P | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could copy a normal audio CD to a mini-CD and then try to seek to last take on the original CD | 12:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll see what your drive does | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the better / smarter drives (nowadays all) extrapolate physical destination location of head from cueuesheet | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the drive will locate the head to an area where there is no more physical CD when you playback that mini-CD and try to seek to end | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then drive readout logic detects there's no optical input anymore and will abort, after some retries | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly focus retries | 13:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | some smarter drives will step back a few millimeters and try again | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eventually every drive stops playback, or resumes at a point on CD closed to the beginning resp inner tracks | 13:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw all this and particularly the cue-sheet make it possible that you have a track -1 on CD. you can seek to this track when seeking backward immediately after starting playback | 13:03 |
| jon_y | secret track!? | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 13:04 |
| jon_y | ooh | 13:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I think some commercial music CDs already did that gimmik | 13:05 |
| jon_y | is that like some DRM scheme? | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, no? | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's more like the really funny vinyl records that had two grooves instead of one, on one side | 13:06 |
| divVerent | nice trick | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depending on "random" you get to hear one or the other | 13:06 |
| rikanee | some bands hide sekrit tracks, IIRC. | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 13:07 |
| rikanee | others abuse multi-session support to hide them, last I remember. | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think you also can have tracks after cue-sheet end of record | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might have noticed some tracks on some CDs start with minus-seconds counting up to zero | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you do this on first track, then there's a part of audio track you usually never get to hear | 13:08 |
| divVerent | right, basically the first track's "lead-in" | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you however can seek back from "start" into this "hidden" negative time track | 13:09 |
| divVerent | but... a track -1? that "track backwards" hits when at 1? that would be weird | 13:09 |
| divVerent | time-seeking can reach this area often, though | 13:09 |
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| divVerent | i.e. holding the seek button | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's what I said | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's the lead in of track one | 13:10 |
| divVerent | oh, I thought you meant one can reach this by pressing the seek backwards button... but that would mean the player would count to 0 from 1 :P | 13:10 |
| divVerent | and yes, indeed some players seem to play the lead-in of track 1, and some do not | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you only can access it by seeking linear backward from start of record | 13:10 |
| divVerent | 1. sell CDs with secret track hidden on lead-in | 13:11 |
| divVerent | 2. wait for it to appear on pirate sites | 13:11 |
| divVerent | 3. let them download | 13:11 |
| divVerent | 4. tell everyone about secret track | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check cue-sheet syntax of cdrdao/cdrecord/xcdroast/whatever | 13:11 |
| divVerent | I know cdrdao can do this :P I did this abuse before, but not on track 1 :P | 13:11 |
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| divVerent | I saw also some CDs do this between track n-1 and track n | 13:12 |
| divVerent | label has | 13:12 |
| divVerent | "track n: bonus track", but the real fun is the area between n-1 and n | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | awesome huge lead-in? | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of bonus track N? | 13:13 |
| divVerent | yes | 13:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 13:13 |
| divVerent | basically, a variant of the typical "bonus track after long pause" | 13:13 |
| divVerent | putting it in lead-in hides it from the pirate sites, mostly :P | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hate all the mp3 shit for not properly supporting any of that, particularly MAFW which can't do gapfree | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I honestly would prefer raw disc image files, incl cue-sheet, and a player that pretends to playback CD | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe flac | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with cuesheet | 13:16 |
| divVerent | on certain sites, ape+cue is common | 13:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | i'd like to learn about those sites, then :-) | 13:18 |
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| ShadowJK | I've seen flac+cue too | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically since that fire ate my Sony 250 (or was it 400?) CD changer player, I stopped listening music | 13:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | divVerent: the problem with "CD adapter" is the mechanics | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you maybe could even create a acryl lightchannel ring thingie in that adapter that would giude the LED's light to the head no matter which orientation the CD is inserted and where the head actually is positioned. but the rotation that the drive allpies to your "CD" will give you severe headache ;-P | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/allpies/applies/ | 13:27 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: you maybe could even create a acryl lightchannel ring thingie in that adapter that would giude the LED's light to the head no matter which orientation the CD is inserted and where the head actually is positioned. but the rotation that the drive applies to... | 13:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what the spindle motor control would do when the clock of the read-in signal is too high no matter how much the spindle motor gets throttled | 13:30 | |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: by DRM scheme I mean whatever autorun exe for windows on the 1st data track will try to go to -1 and scan | 13:53 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: so if the track was missing, it would screw up your drive hardware or something | 13:57 |
| jon_y | eg try to flash your drive with /dev/random | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | data track? | 13:58 |
| jon_y | well, whatever track that windows picks up the autorun stuff from | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | autorun? | 13:58 |
| jon_y | think sony rootkit, but abrasive upfront :) | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you ever seen windows load any autorun from an audio CD (redbook?)? | 13:59 |
| jon_y | if it has a data track, yes | 13:59 |
| jon_y | maybe they were called mixed mode | 13:59 |
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| jon_y | most CD players would ignore the data track anyway | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or so hoped Sony, eh? | 14:00 |
| jon_y | windows would still look for autorun on the data (non-audio) track | 14:00 |
| jon_y | I don't know if CD players can go to -1 track | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are no tracks as you use the term | 14:01 |
| jon_y | Nero calls then data tracks, as opposed to audio tracks | 14:02 |
| jon_y | not sure what the correct term is | 14:02 |
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| jon_y | what are non-audio tracks technically called anyway? | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what are non-audio tracks? | 14:03 |
| jon_y | tracks that contain computer files? | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a audio-CD a track is a segment out of the continuous data stream that has basically PCM data, defined by start and end timestamp (simplified picture) | 14:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so there's no way to have non-audio tracks on a audio CD, afaik | 14:06 |
| jon_y | hmm, I've seen CDs with both audio and data | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (it has cue-sheet aka index, but that's besides the point here) | 14:06 |
| jon_y | game CDs from 1997 | 14:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you can have multisession CD but that's already no true audio-CD anymore | 14:07 |
| jon_y | ah ok, those are called multisession CDs | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most players are able to playback multisession CD when first session is an audio-CD format | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some can even jump a data session I guess | 14:08 |
| jon_y | ok, so 2 sessions, where the 2nd session are all audio tracks? | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but again, that's not a true CDDA http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Books#Red_Book compatible audio-CD anymore | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and not what we were talking about | 14:10 |
| jon_y | ok | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we were talking about audio tracks which as I already mentioned are defined by start and end point, but also have an entry point, and if that entry point is not == start point, you got a lead-in on that particular audio track | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki bluebook | 14:14 |
| infobot | At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebook (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the legal citation style guide||Blue book (disambiguation){{!}}Blue book}} {{italic title}} "'The Bluebook: A Uniform System of Citation"', a style guide, prescribes the most widely used legal citation system in the United States. "The Bluebook" is compiled by the "Harvard Law Review" Association, the "Columbia Law Review", the "University of Pennsylvania Law Review", and the ... | 14:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Book_(CD_standard) | 14:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, it's not called lead-in but pre-gap | 14:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I have wondered if gapless playback is patented | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | So the lack of it is to avoid a licence fee. | 14:52 |
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| teotwaki | SpeedEvil: http://www.google.com/patents/US20100165815 | 15:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | Are the maps stored in mydocs or somewhere on rootfs when caching maps for apps like cloud gps? | 15:30 |
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| Shapeshifter | and what's the best maps/navi app for the n900 anyway, these days? cloud gps is super smooth indeed but it seems really buggy. Keeps crashing and when searching for something in portrait mode, it gets the orientation of the text the wrong way. | 15:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | teotwaki: Sigh. Though that patent seems easily sidestepped | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, filter graphs. We don't need friggin filter graphs, we use software instead ;-P | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, this is weird BS actually assuming a detection method for EOF generic to the audio and capable of cutting silence at end of a media track, no matter if that's intentional silence or not (padding). Furthermore it does same for the queued next "filter graph" aka playback stream/process and puts that one on hold where it thinks audio actually starts. We don't need either, we just need a command cueue in MAFW that sets up next gstreamer | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pipe while current pipe plays back, and starts that pre-setup gstreamer process when current process exits (no filters or nifty detections involved!). Then it immediately sets up next gstreamer pipe after SIGSTARTing the preloaded one, and puts that one on SIGSTOP | 15:52 |
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| HtheB | whatsup doc | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmß | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.google.com/patents/US20100165815 | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: maps are generally stored on MyDocs | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification | 15:55 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 15:55 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: is marble any good? | 15:56 |
| divVerent | haha, FHS and /usr... | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I'm using it | 15:56 |
| divVerent | I am not using it any more... damn Poettering | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tzzz | 15:57 |
| divVerent | /bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin are now all symlinks to /usr/bin because systemd is retarded | 15:57 |
| divVerent | so much for "/usr separation" | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 15:57 |
| divVerent | if we put everything in /usr now... what did we need the separation for anyway? | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that shit will never make it on my machines! | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 15:57 |
| divVerent | reason for this is that systemd guys were too stupid to make early boot scripts not use stuff from /usr | 15:58 |
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| divVerent | or e.g. stuff in /bin using libs from /usr/lib | 15:58 |
| divVerent | in Various Distros | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's basically what we seen on maemo as well | 15:58 |
| divVerent | no distro ever got this right... but instead of actually trying for once | 15:59 |
| divVerent | the Lennarts rather wanty to throw away this | 15:59 |
| divVerent | also a nice one, PAM modules using stuff from /usr | 15:59 |
| divVerent | pam_encfs, pam_sshsomething | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | idiots never will extinguish | 15:59 |
| divVerent | in case of these pam modules, it can't really be avoided | 15:59 |
| divVerent | instead, pam libs should have been moved below /usr for this :P | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | extinct I meant | 16:00 |
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| divVerent | too bad they have influence... | 16:00 |
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| divVerent | systemd itself is quite ok, but... I really don't want poettering to have that power | 16:00 |
| divVerent | he ruined linux audio, isn't that enough? | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 16:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's about time for a large movement towards poettering-free distros | 16:01 |
| divVerent | I mean... why AM I even on systemd? because arch linux tries to avoid patching upstream (good) and there is no more upstream udev outside systemd (BAD BAD BAD) | 16:02 |
| HtheB | damn | 16:02 |
| HtheB | my rootfs is somehow full | 16:02 |
| HtheB | 0% left | 16:02 |
| HtheB | how can I clean left over files? | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rm? | 16:02 |
| HtheB | sure rm | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | have a look into /var/log | 16:02 |
| HtheB | but which files are safe to rm | 16:02 |
| divVerent | how did you fill it up? maybe that helps | 16:03 |
| HtheB | upgraded the cssu | 16:04 |
| HtheB | but dont know if that was the reason | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a du -x /|sort -n my also help | 16:06 |
| Shapeshifter | Dammit... What's the correct sources line for the marble repository located here? https://files.kde.org/marble/downloads/maemo/fremantle/ ? I tried just about everything and I always either get an invalid syntax error or a 404 | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hm, you might have hidden files under mountpoints (old unix admin prank) | 16:06 |
| HtheB | DocScrutinizer05 still 0% | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still? | 16:07 |
| HtheB | let me show u the outpur of ls * -i | 16:07 |
| HtheB | output | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't know how that helps | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway ubifs has a garbage collection that doesn't kick in instantly | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually deleting files doesn't instantly free disk space, though after a boot you suddenly have several % free again | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess there are other occasions too on which GC kicks in | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you may try a sync for example | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I'm not sure it helps to kick off GC | 16:12 |
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| HtheB | oke let me reboot it | 16:12 |
| HtheB | altough, here is the pastebin | 16:12 |
| HtheB | www.pastebin.com/KXd1B5Ne | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fine, when I find a duplicate inode, may I win sth? | 16:14 |
| HtheB | like? :P | 16:15 |
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| HtheB | a free hug? | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL @ negative inode numbers starting at >>-268434770 asound<< though | 16:16 |
| HtheB | oh darn ir | 16:16 |
| HtheB | it | 16:16 |
| HtheB | i did ls -i right | 16:16 |
| HtheB | had to do ls to show the filesizes | 16:16 |
| * HtheB fails | 16:17 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess negative means virtual? | 16:17 |
| HtheB | i dont know :D | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, all those negative inodes are in /proc | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I wouldn't be too surprised that they use negative inode numbers there to not collide with real inodes | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hey I built an awesome braindead simple movement detector :-D | 16:21 |
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| HtheB | doc | 16:22 |
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| HtheB | www.pastebin.com/rekCSNZG | 16:22 |
| HtheB | hope this is more useful lol | 16:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (actually I build it to detect random resets of my water heater that result in it shutting down LCD backlight for 1s. I simply used my t900 and polled /sys/*/*/*/lux comparing the reading to last one) | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -rw------- 1 root root 296.0k Jan 1 1970 core | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cruft | 16:24 |
| HtheB | ? | 16:26 |
| HtheB | oke deleted it | 16:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for the rest I can't say anything. again: look into /var/log7* | 16:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | err /var/log/* | 16:29 |
| HtheB | there are only 2 files | 16:29 |
| HtheB | each just like 1/2kb or se | 16:29 |
| HtheB | or so* | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if you had trouble with cssu-t8 you *might* have hidden files covered under /opt | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or /home | 16:29 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: how does you battery hold up by the way? I keep having a major problem with battery life. It holds up more or less well for 1 day of use (while being online in 2 sip accounts and one gtalk account, checking emails every 30min), but as soon as I turn on 3G, it takes about 20 minutes and then I get battery warnings and the phone turns off. When I turn it on again and switch back to 2G, I can get several more hours out ... | 16:30 |
| Shapeshifter | ... of it. It seems like it's overreacting when the drain increases... | 16:30 |
| HtheB | but /opt isn't a part of root? | 16:30 |
| HtheB | or am i wrong | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: that indicates aged cell that has increased ESR | 16:30 |
| Shapeshifter | ESR? | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | get a new battery | 16:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Quite. | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | effective series resistance | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HtheB: that's the point | 16:31 |
| HtheB | no hidden files btw within /opt | 16:31 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: can you recommend a place to buy a replacement battery in europe? | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you create a file in /opt before the real /opt volume gets mounted to /opt, then that file is hidden and I dunno how to detect it other than umounting /opt again | 16:32 |
| Shapeshifter | I once bought a replacement battery from hong kong for 2.50 USD but I haven't had the nerve to use it >.> | 16:32 |
| HtheB | oh hang on | 16:32 |
| HtheB | i think i found out the reason now | 16:32 |
| HtheB | >.> | 16:32 |
| HtheB | now that youve said it | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | var/log/syslog 40MB? | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: I buy my replacement batteries in my second hand phone store next house | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if they sell me a lemon, they get some bitching and give me a replacement | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | usually genuine Nokia batteries, though "used" | 16:34 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh. I'm not sure if I could trust ebay sellers that they're selling genuine ones | 16:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since they are "used" I have no trouble when asking for a better one | 16:34 |
| HtheB | ive installed like 30 libs | 16:35 |
| Shapeshifter | well there aren't really any shops like that in switzerland ;-) | 16:35 |
| HtheB | (libs that are actually made for harmattan) | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (I suspect the guy to sell the bad battery to next idiot ;-P) | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: what? no turkish shops in la suisse? | 16:36 |
| HtheB | :D | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pakistani maybe? | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: not too many. There are a few... | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | greeks, too | 16:36 |
| Shapeshifter | ^^ | 16:36 |
| HtheB | Shapeshifter, cant be | 16:37 |
| HtheB | turkish phone shops are everywhere | 16:37 |
| Shapeshifter | is it even possible to tell if a battery is genuine by that 'hologram' ? | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like "we can't get doener here" | 16:37 |
| divVerent | there is clearly a lot of such shops in Zürich... but these shops look like I don't want to enter | 16:37 |
| divVerent | small shop, huge mobile carrier name, looks dirty | 16:38 |
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| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: haha, we can, at 3x normal price and 75% doener size | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | divVerent: true that. | 16:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly the kind of shop ;-) | 16:38 |
| HtheB | divVerent real Halal? | 16:38 |
| divVerent | I don't care, I am not paying SFr 10 for a doener | 16:38 |
| divVerent | probably equally halal as elsewhere... | 16:39 |
| HtheB | real halal meat cost a lot | 16:39 |
| divVerent | I mean, a muslim CAN eat horses :P | 16:39 |
| HtheB | lol! | 16:39 |
| HtheB | well... | 16:39 |
| HtheB | its not the best though | 16:39 |
| HtheB | :P | 16:39 |
| divVerent | (actually, I am not so sure about that part... | 16:39 |
| HtheB | i rather have cow.. | 16:39 |
| HtheB | it's not haram (forbidden) but uhmmm | 16:39 |
| divVerent | would first have to look up the weird rules from the old testament the Muslims based theirs on) | 16:39 |
| HtheB | you can't eat it untill you really starf | 16:40 |
| HtheB | and you may only eat 1 leg | 16:40 |
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| divVerent | like, for knowing if you can eat it, you need to look at the hooves firts :P | 16:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rotfl | 16:40 |
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| HtheB | lol | 16:40 |
| HtheB | well, every animal that you slaught should be healthy | 16:40 |
| teotwaki | slaughter | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, at McDo I'd rather worry about the packaging ;-P | 16:41 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: when you say packaging, you mean the fat around the food? | 16:41 |
| Shapeshifter | I also often have problems with the SIM card. Becomes 'unrecognized' and I have to reboot the phone. Have cleaned the connectors and card several times over... | 16:41 |
| Shapeshifter | really, the n900 isn't exactly holding up to nokia rep | 16:42 |
| teotwaki | it isn't? | 16:42 |
| Shapeshifter | At least the usb port problem is easily fixed. | 16:42 |
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| Shapeshifter | (in advance) | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean the wrapper or box that allegedly is the only valuable nutrition in their food | 16:42 |
| teotwaki | I've had one since late 2009, been in use since then, nothing's failed. | 16:42 |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: this has an advantage too | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but might not be halal ;-) | 16:42 |
| divVerent | as a vegan, you can eat anything as McD's | 16:42 |
| divVerent | I mean, they cannot put any animals in there, they use cheap chemical stuff :P | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: same here | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except that early flex cable issue | 16:44 |
| teotwaki | my nokia uUSB cable is still my main cable | 16:44 |
| teotwaki | for all my devices. | 16:44 |
| teotwaki | I literally have it with me everywhere. | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean the flex connector aka display PCB | 16:44 |
| teotwaki | ah | 16:45 |
| teotwaki | had that issue on the n810 | 16:45 |
| teotwaki | never had it on the n900 | 16:45 |
| teotwaki | though iirc, lcuk had it happen to him twice. | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I triggered it by disassembly | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | must've been semi-broken before, since... EE... you know. I'm not using sledge hammer usually | 16:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and, well, it returned from Nokia repair with power button quite defect | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which funny enough repaired itself over the years | 16:48 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 glares at those 25 pcs 0.06F capacitors, coin type | 16:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PAS414 | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PAS414HR even | 16:49 |
| HtheB | doc | 16:50 |
| HtheB | time to flash i guess | 16:50 |
| HtheB | it's dead | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's no highlight here | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you removed all your harmattan libs and a few more? | 16:50 |
| HtheB | i cant remove them | 16:51 |
| HtheB | thats the point | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 16:51 |
| HtheB | =( | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's that? | 16:51 |
| HtheB | (by dead, i mean the n900 is in coma) | 16:51 |
| HtheB | i try to delete | 16:51 |
| HtheB | but it gives me errors like | 16:52 |
| HtheB | <package> depends on <package>; however: package <package> is to be removed. | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err what? you installed harmattan libs via apt? | 16:53 |
| HtheB | but i did just dpkg -r <packages> | 16:53 |
| HtheB | :nod: | 16:53 |
| HtheB | well, they are .deb files... | 16:53 |
| HtheB | how else was it going to be? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no clue how to fix that | 16:54 |
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| HtheB | fml | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just surprised it worked | 16:54 |
| HtheB | i tried meecolay | 16:54 |
| HtheB | to run harmattan apps on maemo | 16:54 |
| HtheB | somehow, all libs installed | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 16:55 |
| HtheB | the libs that I couldnt find, i just ripped them off, of harmattan /usr/lib | 16:55 |
| HtheB | and pasted in the N900 one | 16:55 |
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| jaska | O.o | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, and if you just rm them now? | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess meecolay would use some ld_preload or LD_LIBRARAYPATH or whatever to load the meego libs, and not expect them in default location for maemo libs | 16:57 |
| HtheB | wrong | 16:57 |
| HtheB | somehow everytime i try to run it, it told me that I miss a library | 16:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, I hardly can give any reasonable advice how to fix that | 16:58 |
| HtheB | at the end, i was done collecting like 30 libraries :D | 16:58 |
| HtheB | no prob | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and now I'm afk and busy with RL | 16:58 |
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| HtheB | thx doc, i think my problem is solved with apt-get install -f | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes that helps, yeah | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes it does more damage than good | 17:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | HtheB: maybe this comes in handy for you: | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat `which what-installed-when` | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #!/bin/sh | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort | 17:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and yeah, i know it's parsing ls output, which is an absolute nogo usually | 17:05 |
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| HtheB | woohoo | 17:08 |
| HtheB | 86% used | 17:08 |
| HtheB | instead of 100% after apt-get install -f | 17:08 |
| HtheB | also, removed all libs manually that were copy pasted | 17:09 |
| Shapeshifter | http://www.jabawok.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/20120726_N900-gsm-chips-spring-fix03.jpg >.> | 17:09 |
| Shapeshifter | Why exactly does this work? | 17:09 |
| Shapeshifter | GSM chips coming off from the board? | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LANG=en_EN ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LANG=en_EN ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort | less | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: basically yes, though I think none of the chips shown there *is* the BB5 | 17:12 |
| Shapeshifter | mh | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and WTF doe maemo ignore LANG=C ?! | 17:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | I also keep having this problem https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7060 (totally green and dark pictures under low light conditions when using flash) | 17:13 |
| povbot_ | Bug 7060: Sometimes photos are very green | 17:13 |
| Shapeshifter | It says this was fixed but it clearly isn't. | 17:13 |
| Shapeshifter | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=2541 | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's fixed in cam module firmware or drivers | 17:14 |
| Shapeshifter | It's still taking green pictures is what I'm saying. | 17:15 |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: how much do you usually pay for your 'used' batteries? | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm OK the big one indeed is rapuyama | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~8 bucks | 17:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo cmtfix is http://www.jabawok.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/20120726_N900-gsm-chips-spring-fix03.jpg | 17:23 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: mine works now, after I think PR.1.1.1 update | 17:24 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: ever heard of "powercell"? apparently a german producer (certainly made in china...) but apparently they don't explode. | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (camera) | 17:24 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: mhh. | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, there are not many cell manufs | 17:25 |
| Shapeshifter | "polarcell" actually. | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and they got better regarding exploding cells | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I killed one noname battery when I heated it up to check the BSI resistor for NTC properties | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it became quite hot and then "pregnant" | 17:27 |
| Shapeshifter | ouch | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but didn't even vent | 17:27 |
| * Shapeshifter just realized that his current battery isn't an original. Came with the phone (second hand N900) | 17:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then... | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no surprise it has high ESR | 17:28 |
| Shapeshifter | I need to find one of those turkish shops and check out their batteries | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all my supposedly genuine nokia bl-5j are still in pretty good condition | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | charging the one in use daily | 17:29 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: does it matter how old unused batteries are? I.e. if I buy one off ebay it could be that it's been sitting in storage for 5 years or more. | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the trick is to never deplete them completely | 17:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, *usually* they should survive that | 17:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh the urban legend is that a LiIon is considered dead after 5 years no matter what you did to them | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess when it still has voltage, then it's probably still ok | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when it can't start your phone when unpacked and inserted, then better don't even try to charge it | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reminds me to recharge all my gta02-batteries | 17:32 |
| Shapeshifter | I just noticed my trusted retailer has one in stock. Ordered it, 19chf. At least like this I know it's certainly genuine. | 17:33 |
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| Shapeshifter | yay, long live my N900 ^^ | 17:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~weather EDDN | 17:35 |
| infobot | Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2013.06.18 1420 UTC; Dew Point: 60 F (16 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.97 in. Hg (1015 hPa); Relative Humidity: 34%; Temperature: 93 F (34 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (050 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT) | 17:36 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: You live in nürnberg? | 17:37 |
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| Shapeshifter | Now I understand why you visit turkish shops. I've never met nicer turkish people than in nürnberg for some reasons. Nice place. Good döner, too. There's at least one that makes their own bread for dürüm. None of that pre packaged stuff. | 17:38 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh, nice. marble with monav navigation actually works rather well. | 17:38 |
| Shapeshifter | offline, that is | 17:38 |
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| BCMM | i've booted rescueOS on my messed up n900 and executed mass-storage-enable.sh. i'm only seeing one USB MSC disk, no MyDocs. am i doing someting wrong? | 18:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, check the mass-storage-enable.sh, it might fail for e.g. no /home/user/MyDoc available to umount, or whatever | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might execute the cmdlines in mass-storage-enable.sh manually, one by one, and see what you get from stderr and return code | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | eeeek, vulnerabilities in VLC | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <https://www.trustwave.com/spiderlabs/advisories/TWSL2013-007.txt> (yeah I know that's 8 days old) | 18:30 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i got it mounted on the device and ftp working over USB networking. any idea how much slower than MSC that's going to be? | 18:32 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: talking of vulnerabilities, this is a fun read http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=517e3042992452b90e20ff8464130ac6&t=1275572 | 18:33 |
| Shapeshifter | http://www.zamfoo.com/updatezamfoo this is especially funny | 18:35 |
| BCMM | heh | 18:35 |
| BCMM | since it's burried deep in the thread, the vuln is something like blah.php?date=`command goes here` | 18:36 |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer05: anything I need to do to "break in" a new battery so that it lasts longer? | 18:39 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: do i need to take some action to make the phone charge while i'm moving data over MSC? | 18:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: actually I don't know | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (sftp) I copied 15GB from device last night, took ~3..4h | 18:59 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i just realised i need MSC anyway | 19:00 |
| BCMM | there's no ssh, and i don't think rsync works over ftp | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I dount there even is any ftp. I however wonder why there's no sshd | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | doubt* | 19:04 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: thanks, i took apart the shell script and told it to export only mydocs, not home and mydocs. looks to be working fine | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much :-) | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 19:07 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: Sorry I didn't spot the typo :( | 20:26 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: uh, how do i restore a CSSU n900 from backups anyway? do i need to enable CSSU before i restore the backup? | 22:57 |
| BCMM | (using osso-backup) | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you should | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since otherwise you probably will either miss apps that gpt installed from cssu repos, or you enable repos by the backup that should get enabled by cssu-enabler | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | got* | 22:58 |
| BCMM | thx | 23:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: and you probably should install backupmenu then before you restroe anything, and make a backup of a clean fresh system. Restore might be easier then new installation, if you ever whant to roll back | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | than* | 23:24 |
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