| *** Mekkis has quit IRC | 00:04 | |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 00:04 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC | 00:04 | |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 00:04 | |
| *** Mekkis has joined #maemo | 00:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, setting the nr_requests high creates a long queue with buffers pending to write out, all those buffers are allocated from RAM. But eventually they need to get written to MMC and then IO is busy for a looong time | 00:14 |
|---|---|---|
| *** Mekkis has quit IRC | 00:14 | |
| *** dhbiker has quit IRC | 00:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | setting queue short creates lots of writes to eMMC for a small chunk of real new data each time, but the short queue doesn't hog RAM and when the queue got emptied, user space has another opportunity to swap in some program text and actually execute some code | 00:15 |
| *** Mekkis has joined #maemo | 00:16 | |
| *** brzys has quit IRC | 00:16 | |
| *** Mekkis has quit IRC | 00:17 | |
| *** Mekkis has joined #maemo | 00:17 | |
| Raimu | Nice sky tonight - picture courtesy of n900 http://i.imgur.com/IdLrFbJ.jpg | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | go figure how cp fills the queue with zillions of buffers it previously malloc()ed, and while queue grows, the swapd frees up more and more RAM by swapping out program text to MMC instead of writing buffers from queue to MMC | 00:18 |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 00:20 | |
| nox- | heh linux and its crazy buffering... reminds me how copying stuff to say an usb key finishes much later than the actual cp command as well | 00:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually s/program text/program data sections/ | 00:20 |
| lansiir | nox-: cp && sync | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | program text just gets free'd from RAM and needs to get read in from the executable file on MMC later on when it is needed again | 00:21 |
| nox- | lansiir, sure | 00:21 |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Well, I'll give low buffer counts a shot - what are the bricking odds when screwing around with swappolube? | 00:22 |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 00:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reducing swappiness may result in program text getting free()d later or not at all, so programs don't block kernel that much via swapd loading same program text again. echo 100 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness might be a pretty poor idea after all | 00:23 |
| *** rosseaux has quit IRC | 00:24 | |
| *** Pilke has quit IRC | 00:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | swappolube does exactly the same, it readjusts swappiness and other related settings | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I haven't heard of swappolube bricking a device, it just migght make stuff slower instead faster | 00:25 |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 00:25 | |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 00:25 | |
| lansiir | Good enough for me >:D | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since I also have installed and activated swappolube, the above quoted settings might well not nbe in effect since ages on my device | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:/home/user# cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 100 | 00:26 |
| lansiir | That's default IIRC | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:27 |
| lansiir | cat /sys/block/mmcblk1/queue/nr_requests | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and also the nr_requests is 4 | 00:27 |
| lansiir | Default is 128 there. | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I might have to check what's with swappolube | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I hardly ever see those nasty freezes | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I think I copied a few GB from eMMC to uSD a year or so ago, and it took ages but eventually finished, without freezing or rebooting my device | 00:29 |
| *** sq-one has quit IRC | 00:29 | |
| *** rikanee has quit IRC | 00:29 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, 128. ShadowJK suggests 2048 or even 4096 iirc | 00:30 |
| lansiir | Also, since some knowledgable people are around, I have some questions about "sleeping". | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this might be ultra-fast and nice for files up to ~100MB or so | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then BOOOM | 00:30 |
| lansiir | Coming from an android phone - does the n900 slow down and pause everything when the screen goes off? | 00:31 |
| lansiir | (or similar) | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 00:31 |
| *** rikanee has joined #maemo | 00:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely nothing like that | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all apps are supposed to be 'clean' in the sense that they don't do busy loops | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or use usleep in a loop just to poll shit | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | normat state of maemo is: all processes wait on IO or a long term timer event | 00:32 |
| lansiir | So if I won't have to keep the screen on when I'm doing stuff? (finally) | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if there's any process not waiting wor IO or a timer that is at least 1s (rather 10 or 60s), then that app is considered broken and shall get nuked from repositories | 00:33 |
| lansiir | heh | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: no, for example xchat is running on my N900 24/7 and never missing any highlight to my nick | 00:35 |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: We have n900 xchat? | 00:35 |
| * lansiir needs to look through the repos some more | 00:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apps shall stop refreshing their display as soon as it's not visible either for not having focus or screen completely blanked | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this isn't particularly new for any X11 app | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just on maemo it's absolutely mandatory | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on android the OS / the kernel enforces non-rogue behaviour even of crappy processes. On maemo the processes themselves are supposed to behave | 00:38 |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 00:38 | |
| *** Mike11 has joined #maemo | 00:38 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the rest is unix-kernel scheduler's standard job which it is pretty good in | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even the kernel is no_ticks | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or NO_HZ or whatever the name | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let's but it this way: when you look at a maemo system's screen, the CPU wakes up once per minute to update the clock display. When you lock the screen then even the clock sleeps | 00:42 |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 00:43 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 00:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you unlock, the clock gets an X-event to redraw the display and on that event the clock re-schedules the timer on every full minute, to keep the display updated | 00:43 |
| lansiir | ...that's epic. | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let's put... | 00:43 |
| lansiir | If I could just get google voice working, I'd never look back XD | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I never looked into it, but aiui google voice is a glorified SIP-VoIP | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I rather use true SIP | 00:45 |
| lansiir | It's a lot of things, but I use it as a phone call forwarder. | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fwd.com, or sipgate.de, or whatever meets your taste | 00:46 |
| *** mvp has joined #maemo | 00:46 | |
| lansiir | The n900 wasn't what I was thinking about when I signed up :P | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it seems SIP doesn't work that great, audio-quality wise, for some N900 users. For me it works like a charm | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even via 3G | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: I'm sorry to hear that | 00:47 |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: No data plan. | 00:48 |
| lansiir | <= le cheapass | 00:48 |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 00:48 | |
| *** norrsken has quit IRC | 00:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my dataplan is prepaid 10 bucks / month, for 500MB (more than enough usually), and when getting a 30.-- charge I get a 20.-- on top worth in free minutes and text, which usually suffices for the 3 months till next 30.-- charge | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (we got no inbound minutes fees here) | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I got this "plan" and this SIM since ~2000 (last 13 years) now | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course 10 years ago data been more expensive if available at all on prepaid | 00:55 |
| *** rosseaux has joined #maemo | 00:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but those subsidized contracts with "free" phone on top and supercheap minutes that turn out to be the most expensive option available after 6 months when everybody else reduces tariffs, that never appealed to me | 00:57 |
| lansiir | I have $0.06/mb, or $25/mo for 250Mb "unlimited" | 00:57 |
| kerio | holy shit | 00:58 |
| kerio | i pay 5€/mo for 100mb/day | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 00:58 |
| lansiir | As you can tell, I did not choose it for the data rates - $0.02/min with no expiration for voice. | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, "$" makes me think "no surprise, third world of mobile communication" | 00:59 |
| lansiir | You are correct. | 00:59 |
| entitled | got a prepaid, limitless, about 10$/month but capped at 384kbps | 00:59 |
| lansiir | 384kbps? | 00:59 |
| entitled | if you pay bit more, you can max out your 3g, and almost 4g | 00:59 |
| lansiir | I was at 150 until just last year ._. | 01:00 |
| entitled | non-prepaid data plans are bit better, but I prefer prepaid with no contract | 01:00 |
| lansiir | non-prepaid is about $45/mo here. | 01:01 |
| lansiir | Where do you people live? | 01:01 |
| entitled | finland here | 01:01 |
| entitled | data is cheap here, but nothing else is | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's called the old Europe | 01:01 |
| entitled | USA has always been bit anal with their wire/wireless internet plans | 01:02 |
| *** xray256 has joined #maemo | 01:02 | |
| lansiir | :/ | 01:02 |
| * lansiir is stuck heree | 01:02 | |
| entitled | from what I've observed | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we even have a 6 months dealer warranty here, by law | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 01:02 |
| lansiir | Any chance you can mail me a sim card that would work here? | 01:02 |
| kerio | in addition to the 2 years manufacturer warranty? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: actually all is dealer warranty, just the dealer bitches at manufacturer, and the 24 months are with you proving that the bug been since manufacturing the good | 01:04 |
| *** gomiam has quit IRC | 01:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first six months it's assumed it's been by manufacturer and you don't need toprove anything | 01:04 |
| lansiir | No? Nobody's willing to mail me a international sim? D: | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after 6 months the duty of proof goes from manuf to customer | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: alas the european SIMs all are pretty pathetic when it comes to international roaming | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hell they are even mere robbery when roaming intra-EU | 01:06 |
| *** xray256 has quit IRC | 01:06 | |
| lansiir | darn :/ | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when I travel from Germany to e.g. italy then suddenly I *do* have to pay for inbound minutes. And data is like cents/byte | 01:07 |
| *** xray256 has joined #maemo | 01:07 | |
| lansiir | But this is good news - I am going to travel next year. | 01:07 |
| * lansiir will be sure to pick up an international sim | 01:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in fact US-SIMs are way better when it comes to international roaming | 01:08 |
| lansiir | orly? | 01:08 |
| *** sardini has quit IRC | 01:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I heard some of your plans are cheaper abroad that in USA | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | than* | 01:08 |
| lansiir | Lies? | 01:09 |
| lansiir | It's pretty hard to leave the country, so it doesn't surprise me. | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and of course there are providers like suraja, who seem to have roaming contracts with 99% of carriers worldwide. And when you're at the dead end of sahara, you use their sat | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | calls worldwide for as little as .49$/min | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think they even offer 14kBd data, for checking your email etc | 01:12 |
| * Win7Mac points to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1352563#post1352563 | 01:12 | |
| nox- | spelled Thuraya i suppose? | 01:12 |
| lansiir | satellite? Wikipedia didn't mention satradio protocols on the n900 >_> | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nox-: yep | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's N945I then, to get rolled out 2015 ;-) | 01:15 |
| lansiir | So, what's up with nokia these days? | 01:15 |
| nox- | winphones :( | 01:15 |
| lansiir | This is actually a pretty good phone, but the failphones are bad. | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or let's wait and see what becomes of the proposed N900i-Phoenux-gta04 project | 01:16 |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 01:16 | |
| *** MrDoublesite has joined #maemo | 01:16 | |
| lansiir | Are you still buying them, or are we waiting for a n1000 kickstarter, or what :P | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody else can buy N900, since I BUY THEM ALL ;-P | 01:17 |
| nox- | more than a few not enough? | 01:17 |
| nox- | :P | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (I actually throttled down a bit when I had my fifth) | 01:17 |
| nox- | haha | 01:17 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's a point where you should stop, and you clearly passed it | 01:17 |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Are you kidding me? D: | 01:18 |
| kerio | lansiir: because they're not enough? | 01:18 |
| *** MrOpposite has quit IRC | 01:19 | |
| entitled | wtf | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://negrielectronics.com/nokia-n900-media-tablet-unlocked-black-p-2709.html | 01:19 |
| entitled | my n900 just started making random noise | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reboot it | 01:20 |
| lansiir | entitled: Time to go find your bible. | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this also happened to me *once* | 01:20 |
| entitled | yeah! | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | started clicking from speakers - lart PA | 01:21 |
| entitled | kind of like the interface sound, when you press the display, but repeated very very fast | 01:21 |
| entitled | clicking yes | 01:21 |
| lansiir | entitled: DocScrutinizer05 will buy it from you :P | 01:21 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: will the N904 run a free-ish modem? | 01:21 |
| rikanee | It's the noise from the ghost of OSSO. Beware. | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: sure, check out gta04.org | 01:21 |
| Win7Mac | GeneralAntilles, shall I put my answers to your "Qs for HiFo candidates" thread? | 01:22 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: also, we're going to call it N904, right? | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | more free'ish than BB5 anyway | 01:22 |
| entitled | I'll eBay this and charge 10 000$, "warning: haunted!" | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | N904 sounds good | 01:22 |
| *** bef0rd has joined #maemo | 01:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | entitled: you mixed that up with N950, which is ~2000 bucks | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yet I won't sell mine soonish | 01:23 |
| rikanee | kerio: "RX-52 board?" | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GTA04-54 board | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably the domesheet will be one of the most difficult to source parts | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Win7Mac, going to start a new thread with the finalized answers. | 01:25 |
| Win7Mac | why? | 01:26 |
| Win7Mac | already there... | 01:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 moos at GeneralAntilles | 01:26 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey-oh | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Win7Mac, because that thread was for discussing the questions to be asked. | 01:26 |
| Win7Mac | and now now the main part... | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rabulism? | 01:27 |
| Win7Mac | ...probably introduce new "phase" of thread | 01:27 |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 01:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think the finalized answers belong on wiki, while the thread on forum is for *dialog* | 01:29 |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 01:29 | |
| Win7Mac | well, both, to reach people | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which reminds me I been to lazy to point out there that it's council's job to represent community on official events, not HiFo BoD | 01:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finalized /questions/ are going in a new thread. | 01:30 |
| Win7Mac | Korintenkacker! | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otoh, new thread are fresh threads are good threads | 01:31 |
| Win7Mac | *Korinthen~ even | 01:32 |
| Win7Mac | i don't mind | 01:32 |
| Win7Mac | at least point from old thread | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: start a new thread, then wait for chem|st or thedead1440 to join it with old one ;-) | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: I'm eagerly waiting for next MWKN :-D | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll be a largely boring issue. | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think there's a number of good stories for that one | 01:34 |
| Win7Mac | yeah, it's monday here already... | 01:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't have the energy for a great deal of editorializing tonight. | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | largely boring unification of councils, extremely boring fact that we have 6 candidates for BoD election, and the negligance that BoD has a meeting on thursday | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wait, some fool suggested to get a new life to N900 case and screen by reshaping GTA04 circuit board | 01:36 |
| Win7Mac | ...and the last thing being crucial to elections | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer05, is there anything I can actually /link/ to for the BoD meeting announcement? | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | harr, good question | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, the GTA04 thing I missed. Link for that? | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chanlog of last meeting maybe, where woody confirmed it? | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | community ML | 01:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, I missed that meeting, too. | 01:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | bleck | 01:38 |
| * GeneralAntilles expands his todo | 01:38 | |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Seems to be working - it hasn't crashed yet :P | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, this time we had a party, not a meeting ;-P | 01:38 |
| lansiir | Though - at 180Kb/s, it would have been faster to download the image again :/ | 01:38 |
| *** eijk_ has quit IRC | 01:38 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: what you're doing? | 01:39 |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: Moving a (non broken) debian image from my sd card to mydocs | 01:40 |
| *** jabis has quit IRC | 01:40 | |
| *** jpinx has quit IRC | 01:40 | |
| *** Arkenoi has quit IRC | 01:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah | 01:40 |
| lansiir | I have 2Mb/s here, so I should have just downloaded it again :/ | 01:40 |
| *** Arkenoi has joined #maemo | 01:40 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, toldya it will get damn slow since it needs a flsh erase page rewrite for every 4 IO requests | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | erase page rewrite can take up to 100ms or sth | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so depending on the block size of your queued IO requests, that determines your bandwidth you see | 01:42 |
| *** jpinx has joined #maemo | 01:42 | |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: I take it that it wouldn't be much faster if I was to download it then? :/ | 01:43 |
| *** jabis has joined #maemo | 01:43 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Where can the board meeting be attended? | 01:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | I assume it's another Concerto thing. | 01:43 |
| *** mvp has quit IRC | 01:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you use dd bs=50M to copy stuff from eMMC to uSD, then even 4 requests in IO queue will fsck your RAM usage and swapping to death | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most likely | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Rob supposed to announce it on hifo.com | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://hildonfoundation.org/news/ zilch new news | 01:45 |
| * GeneralAntilles whistles quietly. | 01:45 | |
| lansiir | DocScrutinizer05: I just use cp. dd would probably be better then - what bs is the most appropiate, do you think? | 01:46 |
| * GeneralAntilles makes excuses about not being kept in the look. | 01:46 | |
| GeneralAntilles | s/look/loop/ | 01:46 |
| Win7Mac | you will be soon | 01:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't remind me. :o | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: you could try dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/user/MyDocs/erase-me bs=2M count=50, and play a bit with bs and count to keep the bs*count size, I'd guess 2MB blocksize should yield best results | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 4MB | 01:49 |
| *** Mek has quit IRC | 01:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (with nr_requests=4) | 01:49 |
| *** Mek has joined #maemo | 01:49 | |
| lansiir | nr_requests is the amount of queued requests, right? | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 01:50 |
| lansiir | What is this about fscking the RAM usage? | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so 4 requests * 2MB/request = 8MB ram buffer usage | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which means that 8MB of program RAM get swapped out to make space for the IO buffers | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while the system will probably work just fine with 8MB buffers, it would fail epically with 128 * 512kB | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for nr_requests=128 | 01:53 |
| *** OkropNick has quit IRC | 01:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's all a bit of gambling since those dials are basically not the correct ones to tweak | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you have a damn stupid program that writes each singe byte with its own IO request, then you probably are really better off with nr_requests =8192 | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless those 8192 IO requests try to write to virtually every single erase page on MMC, since then flushing the queue would mean you have to rewrite *all* erase pages | 01:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if otoh they are all to same file, then odds are you get all 8192 requests/buffers flsuhed by a single erase page rewrite, that's finished in 0.1s | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the RAM usage for 8192 1 byte IO requests = 8192 * (1 byte + overhead for queue and system-call), so maybe 800k to 1 or 2 MB at max | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are other nice parameters to tweak, like milliseconds-till-flush-dirty or whatever it's called. Maybe those are worth tweaking as well, and you could go higher with nr_requests | 02:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did minutes from the meeting Friday-before-last get posted? | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, no clue | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask chem|st | 02:02 |
| Win7Mac | no | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you see I start getting kinda sloppy with council even | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | got a lot of other stuff on my plate | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and still hanging out here | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just feel like I achieved a good chunk of work got done during last 6 months, and I have to throttle everything a bit or you have to miss me completely soon | 02:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like the eye of god imploding in upon itself to infinite. | 02:06 |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 02:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe I missed a major class in my college degree, maybe english literature or theology? I can't really parse that | 02:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a near-quote from a Squidbillies episode. | 02:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | When the sheriff gets his hair shampooed at the local salon with meth-doped shampoo. | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I start to get the ... mood it transports. and I think it fits | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like a dragster rubber-burning for weeks, instead of finally reaching the finish line | 02:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | One last story. | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while on maemo.org bug fixing and maintenance battlefront everything turned into stalingrad | 02:15 |
| Win7Mac | DocS, what's your finish line? | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the point where maemo.org runs like it did 2 years ago, and there are alert maintainers for every imaginable hickup, so I could have 6 weeks of holiday and every single day of them I had the cosy feeling that maemo.org definitely is running fine today just like it did yesterday and will do tomorrow | 02:17 |
| Win7Mac | DocS, how long are you maemo-admin? | 02:18 |
| Win7Mac | *for ~ | 02:19 |
| xes | Win7Mac: you should ask that in a more detailed way.. Are you talking about common people days or Doc's days? ;) | 02:19 |
| Win7Mac | hmh? | 02:20 |
| Win7Mac | common peoples days I guess | 02:20 |
| Win7Mac | ...how many years | 02:21 |
| *** bef0rd has joined #maemo | 02:21 | |
| Win7Mac | *since even | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, I guess since 5 or 6 months | 02:28 |
| Win7Mac | oh, assumed you're doing this for ages already... | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then I really oughta get bashed for creating such a mess | 02:31 |
| *** xray256 has quit IRC | 02:32 | |
| Win7Mac | you're doing very well, afaik :) | 02:34 |
| lansiir | I think I already know the answer to this one, but do I *really* have to open up my n900 and resolder the USB port :/ | 02:39 |
| *** WizardNumberNext has joined #maemo | 02:39 | |
| lansiir | Or is it all a bunch of people who worry way too much about a rare device? | 02:39 |
| Win7Mac | good night | 02:51 |
| *** Win7Mac has quit IRC | 02:51 | |
| *** vblazquez has quit IRC | 02:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lansiir: depends | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you feel with your hardware, you probably will manage to handle it in a way so either mothing bad ever happens to it or at least you notice immediately the first signs of doom pending | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when however once in your life you already broke a screw while fastening it, or you had a car accident no matter if your fault or somebody else's, then you might want to make sure nothing breaks with USB port of your N900. At least when you care enough about this little device to bother doing the hassle of reinforcing the USB | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I for one didn't reinforce mine so far | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | buth I checked the soldering on both N900 that I actually use regularly | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but* | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I found the soldering looked decent | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there might be some devices with flawed soldering of USB port | 03:03 |
| *** felipe` has quit IRC | 03:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for sure there are users that simply lack the motoric skills to handle the USB plug | 03:04 |
| *** ledur has joined #maemo | 03:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not one of them, so I decided to take the risk | 03:04 |
| lansiir | Alright. | 03:04 |
| *** ledur is now known as RiD | 03:05 | |
| lansiir | I'm pretty good with electronics, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it, knowwhatimean? | 03:05 |
| ShadowJK | Important to pull out the usb plug straight | 03:05 |
| RiD | lansiir except usb, always fix usb | 03:06 |
| RiD | dont make the same mistake i did | 03:06 |
| lansiir | RiD: Which was? :o | 03:06 |
| lansiir | ShadowJK: Already filed down most of my USB ports. | 03:06 |
| RiD | not soldering down the microusb port before it was too late | 03:07 |
| ShadowJK | I'm on my 4th N900 and never broken a usb port so fa | 03:07 |
| RiD | maybe because you've been switching around? :P | 03:07 |
| ShadowJK | But then I've also seen people with q month old Lumias with broken usb ports | 03:08 |
| WizardNumberNext | thats nothing I have seen month old computer case with broken usb port | 03:09 |
| RiD | don't call me uncareful :z | 03:09 |
| WizardNumberNext | but breaking any port in 1 month is really bad achievement | 03:09 |
| RiD | it broke after 2 years and 2 or 3 months | 03:09 |
| WizardNumberNext | mine was used by my father, who knew nothing about those ports and I use it already for rawly 7 mopnth | 03:10 |
| WizardNumberNext | for 2 months using same battery and charging from computer ONLY | 03:11 |
| WizardNumberNext | I even don't know where is my second charger | 03:11 |
| WizardNumberNext | never have been more happy with any other "smartphone" | 03:12 |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 03:13 | |
| WizardNumberNext | I even used to have to have SG3, but after 1 day of use I said it is crap | 03:13 |
| RiD | wanna trade your sg3 for my n900? | 03:13 |
| WizardNumberNext | I expect smartphone to wake me up even if it is dead and battery is at edge of being of any use | 03:14 |
| WizardNumberNext | this SG3 never been mine | 03:14 |
| RiD | I'll sell it and buy 2 n900s | 03:14 |
| *** trumee has quit IRC | 03:14 | |
| RiD | or 3 | 03:14 |
| WizardNumberNext | I borough it after my n95 have died | 03:14 |
| WizardNumberNext | hahaha - I would do same | 03:15 |
| RiD | nah i'd just buy 1 n900 and save the money for a pc upgrade | 03:15 |
| WizardNumberNext | I think I would get contact with SG3 or SG4 just to sell it an buy proper phone (n900) | 03:15 |
| RiD | N900 is far from a proper phone | 03:16 |
| WizardNumberNext | RiD: are you trying to make joke? | 03:16 |
| RiD | it's one of the things it does worse :L | 03:16 |
| WizardNumberNext | how the hell SG3 can buy you both n900 and computer upgrade? | 03:16 |
| RiD | it can't, therefore "save the money" | 03:17 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am thinking about upgrade, but it would be at least 300gbp | 03:17 |
| RiD | therefor*? | 03:17 |
| WizardNumberNext | hahaha | 03:17 |
| RiD | WizardNumberNext i'd say to wait for "next-gen" consoles | 03:17 |
| *** xes has quit IRC | 03:18 | |
| RiD | so that at least gpu prices go down a little | 03:18 |
| WizardNumberNext | I want to get myself 32GiB DDR3-2133 9-9-9-? RAM and ASUS Crosshair Formula V Z | 03:18 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am not going to upgrade my GPU until GeForce 8xx series would come true - then I would buy two 680 | 03:18 |
| *** kolp has quit IRC | 03:19 | |
| RiD | my gtx470 will have to last at least one more year | 03:20 |
| lansiir | RiD: What are you going to do with the old one? | 03:20 |
| WizardNumberNext | I cannot afford lower series - thermal envelope of anything else would kill me in 10 cubic metres | 03:20 |
| lansiir | heh | 03:20 |
| RiD | lansiir old what? | 03:20 |
| lansiir | RiD: Are you going to link the gtx470 with the new gtx? | 03:21 |
| RiD | thermal what | 03:21 |
| lansiir | ^ | 03:21 |
| RiD | you lost me on that | 03:21 |
| WizardNumberNext | heat, heat man | 03:21 |
| RiD | I don't understand what you are trying to say | 03:21 |
| WizardNumberNext | I need something as powerfull as possible, but no more heat then I already have | 03:22 |
| RiD | ah, i don't really care about heat :p | 03:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | I already have 2x 150W GPUs | 03:22 |
| lansiir | 150W? | 03:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | and overclocked AMD Phenom II 1090T (2.96GHz CPU-NB and 3.95GHz cores) | 03:23 |
| lansiir | Oh, GPU. | 03:23 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am living in happy lack of knowledge how much power this CPU is stilling to produce heat | 03:23 |
| WizardNumberNext | but bet it would well over 200W | 03:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | anyway... | 03:26 |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 03:26 | |
| WizardNumberNext | anybody had problems with lastest CSSU-testing update? | 03:26 |
| WizardNumberNext | I tried twice - twice same effect - first phone app is stopping to work, then cannot boot | 03:27 |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 03:36 | |
| *** lxp has quit IRC | 03:36 | |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 03:38 | |
| *** RiD has quit IRC | 03:41 | |
| *** LauRoman has quit IRC | 03:52 | |
| *** kerio has quit IRC | 03:52 | |
| *** lxp has joined #maemo | 03:54 | |
| *** Lava_Croft has quit IRC | 03:56 | |
| *** nox- has quit IRC | 03:57 | |
| *** Lava_Croft has joined #maemo | 03:57 | |
| *** lxp1 has joined #maemo | 04:00 | |
| *** lxp has quit IRC | 04:02 | |
| *** kerio has joined #maemo | 04:02 | |
| *** hardfalcon1 has quit IRC | 04:08 | |
| *** hardfalcon has joined #maemo | 04:08 | |
| *** Mike11 has quit IRC | 04:23 | |
| *** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo | 04:27 | |
| *** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC | 04:28 | |
| *** triggerhappy has joined #maemo | 04:33 | |
| *** Bambi_BOFH has joined #maemo | 04:40 | |
| Bambi_BOFH | hi all, i suspect this will have a canned answer. after the upgrade two weekends ago my phone rotation has completely changed and ring/message tones were reset to defaults. i can manually fix the tones but is it possible to get the old rotation behaviour back? | 04:42 |
| Bambi_BOFH | previously i had a little indicator thingy that showed i had rotation locked to landscape mode - now it defaults to portrait and i have to open the keyboard to get landscape to come back | 04:43 |
| *** maybeWTF has joined #maemo | 05:00 | |
| *** maybeHere has quit IRC | 05:04 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 05:09 | |
| chainsawbike | Bambi_BOFH, a recent update to cssu-testing allows the orientation lock applet to lock in either portrait or landscape, it sounds like you have it locked in portrait | 05:14 |
| Bambi_BOFH | chainsawbike: weird, i've had it locked like that for months (definitely since last year some time). i couldn't find anything in settings to change it so it lets me re-lock it but i'll have another look through and see if i can find something | 05:16 |
| chainsawbike | Bambi_BOFH, i think the applet is no longer installed by default("needed" by cssu) so apt may have uninstalled it | 05:18 |
| chainsawbike | for me its in the status?( tap on the clock...) menu | 05:19 |
| Bambi_BOFH | chainsawbike: thats where it used to be for me so i guess its been removed. i couldn't find it in the app manager but i will double check - might have just looked for the wrong things | 05:20 |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 05:21 | |
| *** wmarone_ has quit IRC | 05:27 | |
| *** wmarone__ has joined #maemo | 05:27 | |
| chainsawbike | Bambi_BOFH, its called "status-area-orientationlock-applet" :) | 05:30 |
| Bambi_BOFH | chainsawbike: you were right, it had been uninstalled and i had failed to find it in the app manager :) | 05:31 |
| Bambi_BOFH | one gold star for chainsawbike, thank you! | 05:31 |
| *** Kabouik has quit IRC | 05:32 | |
| *** trumee has joined #maemo | 05:41 | |
| *** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo | 05:55 | |
| *** triggerhappy has quit IRC | 05:58 | |
| *** dockane_ has joined #maemo | 06:00 | |
| *** lxp has joined #maemo | 06:01 | |
| *** lxp1 has quit IRC | 06:03 | |
| *** dockane has quit IRC | 06:03 | |
| *** odin_ has quit IRC | 06:17 | |
| *** jeverling_ has quit IRC | 06:19 | |
| *** jeverling has joined #maemo | 06:27 | |
| *** robbiethe1st has quit IRC | 06:28 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 06:39 | |
| *** unclouded has joined #maemo | 06:49 | |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 06:52 | |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 07:02 | |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 07:07 | |
| *** utanapischti has quit IRC | 07:17 | |
| *** merlin1991 has quit IRC | 07:33 | |
| *** utanapischti has joined #maemo | 07:34 | |
| *** merlin1991 has joined #maemo | 07:36 | |
| *** erstazi has joined #maemo | 08:00 | |
| *** erstazi has quit IRC | 08:00 | |
| *** erstazi has joined #maemo | 08:00 | |
| *** lansiir has quit IRC | 08:02 | |
| *** hardaker has joined #maemo | 08:08 | |
| *** timeless has quit IRC | 08:11 | |
| *** lbt has quit IRC | 08:19 | |
| *** lbt has joined #maemo | 08:20 | |
| *** lbt has quit IRC | 08:20 | |
| *** lbt has joined #maemo | 08:20 | |
| *** mvp has joined #maemo | 08:30 | |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 08:47 | |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 09:01 | |
| *** vblazquez has joined #maemo | 09:05 | |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 09:08 | |
| *** sunny_s has joined #maemo | 09:08 | |
| *** bef0rd has joined #maemo | 09:08 | |
| *** newbie19 has joined #maemo | 09:10 | |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 09:10 | |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 09:10 | |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 09:11 | |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 09:12 | |
| *** bef0rd has joined #maemo | 09:15 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 09:16 | |
| *** mvp has quit IRC | 09:16 | |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 09:16 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 09:21 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 09:21 | |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 09:21 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 09:26 | |
| *** FReaper-PC has joined #maemo | 09:30 | |
| *** FR-PC has joined #maemo | 09:30 | |
| *** FR-PC is now known as FlameReaperPC | 09:30 | |
| *** FReaper-PC has quit IRC | 09:34 | |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has joined #maemo | 09:36 | |
| *** FlameReaperPC has quit IRC | 09:36 | |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 09:41 | |
| *** bef0rd has joined #maemo | 09:42 | |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 09:44 | |
| *** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC | 09:45 | |
| *** mvp has joined #maemo | 09:46 | |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 09:46 | |
| *** dhbiker has joined #maemo | 09:54 | |
| *** orson has joined #maemo | 09:54 | |
| *** XATRIX has joined #maemo | 09:55 | |
| *** VDVsx has joined #maemo | 09:57 | |
| *** eMHa has quit IRC | 09:58 | |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 10:00 | |
| *** newbie19 has quit IRC | 10:00 | |
| *** edheldil has joined #maemo | 10:01 | |
| *** murrayc has joined #maemo | 10:09 | |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 10:15 | |
| *** Wizzup has quit IRC | 10:21 | |
| *** LauRoman has joined #maemo | 10:24 | |
| *** jrocha has joined #maemo | 10:24 | |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 10:30 | |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 10:35 | |
| *** eMHa has joined #maemo | 10:40 | |
| *** tom_ has quit IRC | 10:44 | |
| *** vi__ has joined #maemo | 10:48 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 10:48 | |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 11:06 | |
| *** warfare has quit IRC | 11:11 | |
| *** valeriusN has left #maemo | 11:12 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 11:13 | |
| *** OkropNick has joined #maemo | 11:14 | |
| *** FIQ has quit IRC | 11:22 | |
| *** FIQ has joined #maemo | 11:23 | |
| *** b-r-a-i-n has quit IRC | 11:28 | |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 11:34 | |
| *** jrocha has quit IRC | 11:35 | |
| *** norrsken_ has joined #maemo | 11:43 | |
| *** florian_kc has joined #maemo | 11:47 | |
| *** florian_kc has quit IRC | 11:47 | |
| *** florian_kc has joined #maemo | 11:47 | |
| *** florian_kc is now known as florian | 11:47 | |
| *** xray256 has joined #maemo | 11:50 | |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 11:52 | |
| *** xray256 has left #maemo | 11:54 | |
| *** norrsken_ has quit IRC | 11:57 | |
| *** eijk_ has joined #maemo | 11:57 | |
| *** Custodian has joined #maemo | 12:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Bambi_BOFH: you also might want to have a look at: | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 12:19 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a command how to basically turn off rotation completely | 12:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while still allowing it for apps that intentionally do portrait, like dialer (when set accordingly in dialer's settings menu) | 12:21 |
| *** tom has joined #maemo | 12:24 | |
| *** tom has quit IRC | 12:29 | |
| *** cityLights has joined #maemo | 12:33 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 12:37 | |
| *** LauRoman has quit IRC | 12:39 | |
| *** peetah has quit IRC | 12:39 | |
| *** otep has quit IRC | 12:40 | |
| *** peetah has joined #maemo | 12:41 | |
| *** otep has joined #maemo | 12:41 | |
| *** Wizzup has joined #maemo | 12:42 | |
| *** tom has joined #maemo | 12:45 | |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 12:45 | |
| *** stef_204 has joined #maemo | 12:50 | |
| *** teotwaki has joined #maemo | 12:55 | |
| *** BCMM has joined #maemo | 12:55 | |
| BCMM | my n900 hung up completely, and i had to take out the battery to get it to restart | 12:56 |
| BCMM | now almost none of my icons are visible. has anyone had a similar issue? | 12:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | I had such problem once maybe twice | 12:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | did you touch voltages on CPU? | 12:57 |
| BCMM | WizardNumberNext: no | 12:58 |
| BCMM | never changed any clocks or voltages | 12:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | SmartReflex? | 12:58 |
| BCMM | that's the potentially unstable power-saving feature right? | 12:59 |
| WizardNumberNext | n900 have at least two (I remeber two of them) watchdogs, so it should reset itself | 12:59 |
| WizardNumberNext | usualy SR is stable up to 600MHz | 13:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | anything beyond and SR might cause spontaneous resets | 13:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am running on SR almoist from start | 13:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | but I locked mine to 600MHz | 13:01 |
| *** dlan^ has joined #maemo | 13:02 | |
| WizardNumberNext | 250MHz is stilling your battery, as going to sleep and waking up takes twice as much time, and work takes twice as much as on 500MHz, so in the end it doesn't improve battery life, but worsen it | 13:02 |
| WizardNumberNext | so get rid of 250MHz | 13:03 |
| BCMM | WizardNumberNext: i think i experimented with smartreflex but i can't remember whether i left it on or off | 13:03 |
| BCMM | how do i check? | 13:03 |
| WizardNumberNext | I find mine to be most power-efficient at 600MHz | 13:03 |
| BCMM | i know it's been running fine for weeks | 13:03 |
| WizardNumberNext | it is somewhere in /proc I think | 13:03 |
| WizardNumberNext | or /sys/power | 13:03 |
| WizardNumberNext | need to connect to wireless to check | 13:04 |
| *** kolp has joined #maemo | 13:04 | |
| WizardNumberNext | but first I need to make my "morning" green tea | 13:04 |
| WizardNumberNext | bbs | 13:05 |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 13:07 | |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 13:16 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: sorry, that's nonsense | 13:17 |
| WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: which one? | 13:17 |
| WizardNumberNext | my brain is still sleeping, so please forgive me for any nonsense | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: freq governor should be quite sensibly tuned to use 250 only when it has better power balance than run-to-idle @ 600MHz | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and locking CPU to 600MHz is what IvanS. HW-ChiefDesigner of Nokia explicitly said you MUST NOT (2119) do since it fries the CPU | 13:19 |
| WizardNumberNext | Doc don't you think that n900 is sleeping most of its life? I am not trying to argue, but trying to find reason why you think that | 13:20 |
| WizardNumberNext | yes I read this one | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, e.g. during a call CPU is never sleeping at all | 13:20 |
| WizardNumberNext | wait I do not remember, whether during call CPUs freq is scaled or locked | 13:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so a 30min call will most likely fry your device, due to thermal design capacity and also CPU livetime <15kh at *80°C* (iirc) if CPU is 10°C hotter then this goes down by factors | 13:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | never did | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 500MHz is nominal mac CPU clock, 600 is factory overdrive | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | max* | 13:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | locking CPU clock to overdrive is a +really* BAD THING[TM] to do | 13:23 |
| *** WizardNumberNext has quit IRC | 13:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: you're free to experiment how much you can tune your car err N900, and suffer breakdowns as many as you can afford. But please don't suggest it's a sane thing to do for others who maybe don't understand the risk | 13:26 |
| BCMM | WizardNumberNext, DocScrutinizer05: i did test smartreflex a couple of times, but never changed any config files to make it permenant | 13:26 |
| BCMM | nor have i changed any frequencies | 13:26 |
| BCMM | any idea how to make my icons come back? | 13:26 |
| *** mvp has quit IRC | 13:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: SR allegedly has hw flaws which might cause glitches under certain conditions. It's deprecated by Nokia afaik, maybe due to silicon error, maybe due to PCB layout or circuit design error | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however we never heard SR will kill your hw, it's just considered instable | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OC however *IS* killing your device, sooner or later | 13:28 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: i know, haven't OCed it for that reason | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I really get upsaet every time I hear sb saying "I OC since years and *so far* *my* device survived that" | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and locking device to >500MHz is a really nasty OC mode | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and a silly one too | 13:29 |
| *** BCMM has quit IRC | 13:33 | |
| *** WizardNumberNext has joined #maemo | 13:34 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<WizardNumberNext> 250MHz is stilling your battery, as going to sleep and waking up takes twice as much time, and work takes twice as much as on 500MHz, so in the end it doesn't improve battery life, but worsen it)) incorrect since a) going to sleep doesn't take much time anyway, since with zeroclock there's no overhead in "going to sleep" it's simply switching off components in CPU that are waiting. But anyway whatever overhead might | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | be involved with "going to sleep" the point of 250MHz is it doesn't do that at all, or at least way less frequently, e.g when playing mp3 | 13:36 |
| WizardNumberNext | in the end is still worsen battery life | 13:37 |
| teotwaki | It's a design parody when you have to downclock your CPU for mp3 usage because the DSP is so inefficient. | 13:37 |
| WizardNumberNext | and this is main point | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the equation is still made up since it's not about duration/time of anything but about joule the whole process consumes | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: eh? | 13:37 |
| teotwaki | well, using the DSP keeps the CPU alive, no? | 13:38 |
| teotwaki | so you can't efficiently use the DSP when you're only playing mp3s, because it's more efficient to use the CPU alone? | 13:38 |
| teotwaki | At least, that's what I remember. | 13:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | then 500MHz Must be more efficient, then 250MHz, as leakage current is same on both 250MHz and 500MHz, but voltage is slightly changed | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and regarding joule per process it's not that simple to say anything takes twice as long so it is twice as power hungry since the whole point of lower clock is lower poser consumption at lower clock rates | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: the DSP is not ideally set up and routed hw wise for mp3 playback | 13:40 |
| *** vogon has joined #maemo | 13:40 | |
| WizardNumberNext | yes, but you still forget about leackage current, which isn't involved in computation, so is pure waste | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can't run PA on DSP | 13:40 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: so as I said, it's a design parody :) | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | leakage current is the same for zeroclock and 900MHz | 13:40 |
| WizardNumberNext | and that is the point! | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 13:41 |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: you have an amazing ability to make a point, then flip it around 180 degrees to prove something else. | 13:41 |
| WizardNumberNext | then 250MHz simply cannot be more power-efficient, then 500MHz | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 13:41 |
| teotwaki | than* | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and since it's not raining outside my bank account simply can't be in the negatives | 13:42 |
| WizardNumberNext | and 500MHz enables you to do task twice as fast, so CPU can sleep twice as long | 13:42 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: eh? | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SO WHAT when it draws same leakage current while sleeping?? | 13:43 |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: but if the CPU uses twice as much power to run twice as fast, that's a null operation. | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: exactly | 13:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | teotwaki: I think that rain and bank was about my consideration about cpu power | 13:43 |
| teotwaki | and looking at how CPUs scale, I doubt doubling the frequency results in *only* doubling the power usage. | 13:44 |
| WizardNumberNext | but then is sleeping twice as long taking almost no power | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and CPU is not using twice the power but maybe 3 times the power at double clock speed | 13:44 |
| WizardNumberNext | teotwaki - it is more than double | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: exactly, again | 13:44 |
| *** dlan^ has quit IRC | 13:45 | |
| teotwaki | so running at 500Mhz for mp3 playback is idiotic. | 13:45 |
| WizardNumberNext | anyway most today's CPUs are running on too big voltage anyway | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh | 13:45 |
| WizardNumberNext | for instance - nokia gives us 60 at 600MHz | 13:46 |
| WizardNumberNext | I been running on 48 | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your greenpeace consultant told you that? | 13:46 |
| WizardNumberNext | AMD gives us 1.45v on 3.6GHz - it is sufficient for 4.0GHz | 13:46 |
| teotwaki | You do realise that voltage has little to do with power usage, right? | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, since AMD only hires idiots from mental house to do ther power profile evaluations | 13:47 |
| WizardNumberNext | and in case of Phenom II 1090T I even don't know, because I favour CPU-NB clock, not CPU clock | 13:48 |
| teotwaki | "ZOMG, that cable has 1 billion volts on it" "Yeah, but it only gives out 1 nano amp, so total power output is 1W". | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just that they have other aims regarding device stability and reliability than you obviously are willing to tolerate | 13:48 |
| WizardNumberNext | AMD always was either lowering clock or raise votage to be perfectly sure their chips will always deliver even on poorly designed power supplys | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure | 13:49 |
| WizardNumberNext | man I am running kernel, which was compiled entirielly in RAM - that is quite good test for stability | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | powersuplies, suure | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's nothing | 13:50 |
| *** unclouded has quit IRC | 13:50 | |
| teotwaki | who the fuck is WizardNumberNext? | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you obviously have no clue about testing hw for stability | 13:50 |
| teotwaki | Is he just some troll or something? | 13:51 |
| WizardNumberNext | i9f it comes to power supplies - ASUS M4N78 PRO - ma clock 3.7GHz/1.5v and even littlest step further and it becomes unstable. ASUS M5A97 - 4.0GHz perfectly stable with 1.45v | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just one of the zillion WFM followers | 13:51 |
| teotwaki | or is he one of the government-conspiracy-crazies who happened to stumble upon a couple of hak5 episodes, and decided he was going to revolutionise the computing industry? | 13:52 |
| Lava_Croft | oh boy there is a disagreement | 13:52 |
| Lava_Croft | lets quickly start calling the other a troll and what not | 13:52 |
| *** BCMM has joined #maemo | 13:52 | |
| Lava_Croft | because THOSE are the real good arguments | 13:52 |
| teotwaki | Lava_Croft: has nothing to do with disagreement, just the randomness of his topics. | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: ack | 13:52 |
| Lava_Croft | teotwaki: if you need to call him a troll of tinfoil hat crazy in order to beat his random statements | 13:53 |
| Lava_Croft | i guess you just not good enough! | 13:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | teotwaki I think it might be very hard to revolutionize computing industry without few bilion us dollars | 13:53 |
| Lava_Croft | stick to the facts! :) | 13:53 |
| teotwaki | Lava_Croft: I'm not trying to beat him. | 13:53 |
| teotwaki | Lava_Croft: he doesn't answer questions, just flows from topic to topic until he can get a raise out of one of us. | 13:53 |
| Lava_Croft | protip: just stop talking to him then | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: as mentioned above, you just have different requirements/standards for your definition of "stable" | 13:54 |
| teotwaki | Lava_Croft: wait, what, I'm not free to do whatever I want? OMG. | 13:54 |
| Lava_Croft | eh? | 13:54 |
| teotwaki | ZOMG, I'm not a pro! | 13:54 |
| WizardNumberNext | seriously I am going to do prime test some time iun future | 13:55 |
| teotwaki | prime test? | 13:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | anyway normaly nobody is running such computational intesive task every day | 13:55 |
| teotwaki | well, there might still be a bunch of bitcoin people hoping to get lucky on CPUs. | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in industry "stable" means that it works in full temperature range and full voltage range allowed and full signal distortion and S/N range on all manufacturing variances, with a defined very low MTBF | 13:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | lucky? in what way? | 13:56 |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: well, lucky in that CPU mining is all but pointless now. | 13:56 |
| *** BCMM has quit IRC | 13:57 | |
| teotwaki | WizardNumberNext: look at GIMPS, last I checked they still had people running a lot of primality algorithms on CPUs. | 13:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | teotwaki - I might join some time in future | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, I missed to add: on all CPU opcodes allowed, in all possible sequences of thos opcodes | 13:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | but then I would have to lower my CPU clock, as there is big enough chance for overheat | 13:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | doc: those undocumented too? | 13:58 |
| teotwaki | anyway, 'later. | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so your RAM based kernel compilation at a certain moderate room temperature in a certain average condition, using ~95% of existing CPU opcodes, doesn't mean anything regarding how reasonable are CPU manufacturer's recommended operating conditions | 13:59 |
| Lava_Croft | i think i can explain this | 14:00 |
| Lava_Croft | if my bicycle has a flat tire and i repair it myself | 14:00 |
| Lava_Croft | my testing takes 2 minutes | 14:00 |
| Lava_Croft | if the tire doesnt run flat again, its fixt | 14:00 |
| Lava_Croft | now if i was AMD and i fixed tires | 14:00 |
| Lava_Croft | i would test each repaired tire for a week | 14:00 |
| Lava_Croft | in every crazy near impossible scenario possible | 14:00 |
| Lava_Croft | it seems WizardNumberNext does it my way | 14:01 |
| Lava_Croft | and DocScrutinizer05 tries to explain that while it might work fine, its hardly a standard | 14:01 |
| WizardNumberNext | obviously, I am only one person, not thousands ;) | 14:01 |
| Lava_Croft | am i far off? | 14:01 |
| teotwaki | Nope. | 14:01 |
| teotwaki | Well, a couple of miles, depends on whether your tyre is flat or not. | 14:02 |
| WizardNumberNext | and if it comes to standards, yes doc is right | 14:02 |
| teotwaki | One of them argues that because he tested his tyre quickly, and it seemed fine, anyone could run it at 200PSI. | 14:02 |
| vi__ | what is a hak5? | 14:02 |
| teotwaki | Doc explained that just bouncing it off the ground twice doesn't really prove it's going to withstand a hippo sitting on it. | 14:03 |
| WizardNumberNext | I was wondering about hak5 for while as well, but dropped it | 14:03 |
| teotwaki | ~google hak5 | 14:03 |
| vi__ | is it like a gibson? | 14:03 |
| teotwaki | ~useless | 14:03 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from teotwaki in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 14:03 | |
| teotwaki | ~ggl hak5 | 14:03 |
| * teotwaki gives up. | 14:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki hak5 | 14:04 |
| infobot | I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=hak5&go=Go | 14:04 |
| Lava_Croft | http://hak5.org/ | 14:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, and while your analogy to tires is nice, what I try to say is not about hippos sitting on it but about tire manufacturer is obliged to make sure all his tires will not go flat even after 3 months | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for new tires | 14:06 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 14:06 |
| Lava_Croft | which is kind of what i meant | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is sth completely different to the WFM approach of somebody *fixing* his tire | 14:06 |
| Lava_Croft | there is just a difference between what a single consumer might see as 'working fine' and what a big company sees as 'working fine' | 14:06 |
| teotwaki | Actually, I've had loads of tyres going flat after couple days of usage. | 14:06 |
| Lava_Croft | yup | 14:06 |
| Lava_Croft | see, no need to call him a troll of tinfoil hat loony! | 14:07 |
| Lava_Croft | er loonie* | 14:07 |
| Lava_Croft | my goodness temperatures are ruining my typing | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | teotwaki: I guess that's still tolerable since you can inflate it any time, and you notice it in the morning when starting your ride that it needs some more air. But when your tire would go flat all of a sudden (like a glitch in a CPU at 1+1=714) then you probbaly would shoot the manufacturer of that tire | 14:09 |
| WizardNumberNext | going to see WinAwe to playy some games | 14:09 |
| Lava_Croft | suddenly goes flat when driving 120km/h | 14:09 |
| teotwaki | Lava_Croft: I'll call anyone anything I want, thank you very much. | 14:09 |
| Lava_Croft | teotwaki: i wasnt implying anything else | 14:10 |
| Lava_Croft | there is no need to' | 14:10 |
| Lava_Croft | is different from 'you arent allowed to' | 14:10 |
| teotwaki | actually, that's exactly what it says, it just adds a very condescending tone to it. | 14:10 |
| Lava_Croft | i cant help it how words sound to you | 14:10 |
| Lava_Croft | i know what i said and my intentions with saying it, the rest is up to you | 14:11 |
| Lava_Croft | maybe if you sit on your knees, you can let the negativity higher than your nose | 14:11 |
| Lava_Croft | and you could drown in it! | 14:11 |
| teotwaki | DocScrutinizer05: Actually, most slow leaks you get come from punctures or pinches, not defects. In my experience, defects usually come in the form of tyre simply not inflating, cap popping or catastrophic failure while riding. | 14:11 |
| teotwaki | Lava_Croft: that's very offensive. I'm a small person. | 14:12 |
| teotwaki | Anyway, as I said earlier, 'later. | 14:14 |
| teotwaki | (also, am not a small person) | 14:14 |
| *** WizardNumberNext has quit IRC | 14:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, back to initial topic: while anybody may suggest blocking 250MHz for allegedly better power saving, you MUST NOT suggest locking CPU to 600MHz since then I have to act about it. It's not allowed to suggest potentially damaging measures without clearly explaining the danger they come with | 14:16 |
| Lava_Croft | isnt this more about people blindly doing what someone else suggests instead of about whatever random placebo someone comes up with | 14:19 |
| *** BCMM has joined #maemo | 14:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if it's about flooding the USB receptacle with 50ml superglue to allegedly reinforce it, about locking CPU to 600MHz to allegedly safe power (actually energy), or placing the device into oven @90°C to allegedly get higher charging to 130% of nominal capacity into battery. It's not allowed | 14:21 |
| Lava_Croft | oh, i wasnt aware of channel rules surrounding such placebos :| | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not allowed to suggest it publicly without proper warning | 14:21 |
| Lava_Croft | might not be unwise, given the insane amount of placebos there are for the n900 | 14:22 |
| Lava_Croft | well, placebo is the wrong word, since a lot of them do cause trouble/damage | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/safe/save/ | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the point | 14:23 |
| vi__ | "or placing the device into oven @90°C to allegedly get higher charging to 130% of nominal capacity" | 14:24 |
| vi__ | ^rofl, wat? | 14:24 |
| Lava_Croft | vi__: the world if full of awesome SECRETS like that | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a simple transfer of repo contribution rules to general communication | 14:24 |
| vi__ | brb, microwaving my fone. | 14:24 |
| *** BCMM has quit IRC | 14:25 | |
| vi__ | The point at which cpu power use really rises on the n900 is above 600MHz. | 14:25 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 hands vi__ a 50ml bottle of superglue | 14:25 | |
| vi__ | heh, I already used electric glue. AKA solder. | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 14:26 |
| Lava_Croft | i have this USB port that just wont break | 14:26 |
| Lava_Croft | everytime i charge, i pry it a bit to see if its loose | 14:26 |
| vi__ | try harder. | 14:26 |
| Lava_Croft | for the past nearly 4 years, nothing happened | 14:27 |
| Lava_Croft | on 3 different n900s :D | 14:27 |
| vi__ | You are the only one! | 14:27 |
| Lava_Croft | i have an N9 that fell apart | 14:27 |
| Lava_Croft | i guess that was my punishment | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope, here as well | 14:27 |
| vi__ | On saying that, none of my n900s have broken USB ports either. | 14:27 |
| vi__ | It is those stories you read where users say 'my n900 will only charge if I hold the cable in at an angle'. | 14:28 |
| Lava_Croft | yes | 14:28 |
| Lava_Croft | my n9's usb port is a bit iffy with that | 14:28 |
| Lava_Croft | sometimes you need to tug the cable a bit to get it to make contact | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: I'd think it's not exactly desirable to have a N9, but calling it a punishment is a little harsh ;-P | 14:28 |
| Lava_Croft | damn finns cant assemble phones, i swear | 14:28 |
| vi__ | also, why would blocking 250MHz save you power? | 14:28 |
| Lava_Croft | i mean it falling apart as punishment | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 14:29 |
| Lava_Croft | the n9 itself is really great, as a smartphone | 14:29 |
| Lava_Croft | nothing feels better as a fulltouch phone than the n9 | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for a *phone* I tend to agree | 14:29 |
| Lava_Croft | well, yeah, thats what it was meant to be | 14:29 |
| Lava_Croft | a smartphone, not a MID | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I never considered my N900 a phone though | 14:29 |
| Lava_Croft | same here | 14:30 |
| Lava_Croft | its just my pocketPC only my PocketPC is a real PC | 14:30 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 14:30 |
| Lava_Croft | but the n9 makes for a good phone-like phone | 14:30 |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 14:30 | |
| Lava_Croft | camera is nice too | 14:30 |
| Lava_Croft | no hdr tho, which is ridiculous | 14:31 |
| vi__ | On device HDR is over-rated. | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and that's been the major conceptual flaw of N9/HARM - Nokia binned the NIT concept and moved on to "smartphone" which is an idea/concept that I actually hate | 14:31 |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 14:31 | |
| Lava_Croft | there is really not a single N9 app to allow for HDR photography | 14:31 |
| vi__ | Especially ones that cannot take rapid sequences of shots. | 14:32 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: yes | 14:32 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: you saw the early concepts of Harmattan GUI right | 14:32 |
| Lava_Croft | that looked like something i would really want | 14:32 |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 14:32 | |
| Lava_Croft | then it changed to this highly stylized and very smooth but also totally limited Swipe stuff | 14:32 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/X-20121010223740579127.jpg | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod; | 14:32 |
| Lava_Croft | i can still feel sad when i see that | 14:33 |
| Lava_Croft | but meh, Nokia is basically done for in my book | 14:33 |
| Lava_Croft | they dont have any products i would want | 14:33 |
| Lava_Croft | well, id pay money for a new Booklet | 14:33 |
| *** vi__ has quit IRC | 14:34 | |
| ashley | nobody wants to pay Nokia money to have Blue Screens of Death on their phones ;) | 14:35 |
| Lava_Croft | stop living in the past | 14:35 |
| Lava_Croft | BSoD is about as common these days as kernel panics on linux | 14:35 |
| Lava_Croft | I havent had a single BSoD on my Win7 box ever since i installed win7 :) | 14:35 |
| ashley | I just had one on my Windows 7 box like 5 days ago, so yeah | 14:36 |
| Lava_Croft | heh | 14:36 |
| Lava_Croft | well, i have kernel panics too, sometimes! :) | 14:36 |
| Lava_Croft | still, nokia is using crippled software, yes | 14:36 |
| Lava_Croft | i guess the whole world except Redmond agrees on that | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and even for a smartphone, the N9 (and sailfish?) is way too focused / placing emphasis on that sozial network stuff that I hate so much | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and sailfish even has the appshop on "screen4" - OMFG how insane is *that*? | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why not amazon? | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or youporn? | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or a single huge 911 call button | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | simple! because that all wouldn't payback for Jolla | 14:41 |
| *** dlan^ has joined #maemo | 14:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jury still out on whether it's simple to change screen4 from appshop to xterm | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the fact that they don't make that an advertising point that it's possible to replace appshop on screen4 by $yourapp already makes me sad or rather reluctant | 14:44 |
| *** mvp has joined #maemo | 14:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and while we're at it, please let me replace the "feeds" (or whatever they call all that twitter/SMS/facebook/whatnot stuff on screen3) by good old xterm | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err xchat | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | screen2: apmefo/catorize please | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | screen1: hildon desktop | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | incl min 4 screens, widgets, all | 14:49 |
| *** mvp has quit IRC | 14:49 | |
| Lava_Croft | the feeds screen is very nice | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | overall the swipe system is the best smartphone GUI ive ever used | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | my problem is just my previous device and my first ever 'smart' device, the n900 | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | it just sets a standard that is hard to surpass | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | anyone who i give my N9 to is someone who immediately likes the device | 14:50 |
| Lava_Croft | except the broken 'system-ui' menu you have at the top of the screen, they can work with it right away | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | and ill not mention how people touch the device itself | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | sometimes you almost feel like wiping the device afterwards | 14:51 |
| Lava_Croft | just dont compare it to Maemo5/n900 | 14:52 |
| Lava_Croft | look at it as a smartphone and then notice all the maemo-ish stuff it has | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not good enough for me | 14:52 |
| Lava_Croft | its my type of device, but its a maemo device after all | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | er | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | its not my type of device* | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | it lacks HW keyb, no FM transmitter, no HW camera button | 14:53 |
| Lava_Croft | but its still a smartphone that runs the near-same crazy mutant debian as the n900 | 14:54 |
| ashley | aye, a hardware keyboard is pretty must for, well, anyone | 14:54 |
| Lava_Croft | well, anyone in this channel maybe :) | 14:54 |
| ashley | meh, hipsters can stick to their iPhones and whatnot :P | 14:55 |
| Lava_Croft | but most for most people a HW keyboard = twice devices | 14:55 |
| Lava_Croft | ;) | 14:55 |
| Lava_Croft | well, it kind of works OK to use xterm on the N9 | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ashley: that's exactly what N9 is: a me-too-iPhone | 14:55 |
| Lava_Croft | better than i expected, but its still a far cry from the n900 | 14:55 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: thats not true | 14:55 |
| Lava_Croft | that is a false assumption concerning the N9 | 14:55 |
| ashley | I still remember the Nokia 9210 Communicator...one of the best phones I've ever owned (kinda hard to pick which one is better, that or the N900 :P) | 14:55 |
| Lava_Croft | its a smartphone, but its built from a much different perspective/philosophy than the iphone | 14:56 |
| ashley | well, the N9 has seemed to me like Nokia's take on (beating) iPhone -- I dunno about the internal philosophies and whatnot | 14:56 |
| Lava_Croft | but the days that nokia devices with HW keyboards were the devives that kids dreamt about are just over | 14:56 |
| Lava_Croft | probably forever | 14:56 |
| ashley | and don't get me wrong, the N9 is a relatively nifty device, I just wish it had a better, user-replaceable battery | 14:56 |
| Lava_Croft | it would have made no sense for nokia to create another HW keyb device, no matter how much you and i want one | 14:56 |
| Lava_Croft | no shit about the battery | 14:57 |
| Lava_Croft | or the USB door | 14:57 |
| Lava_Croft | or the fact that the camera module tends to start tearing up the shell | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't get me started what I think about what kids dream of | 14:57 |
| Lava_Croft | by splitting it open, very slowly | 14:57 |
| Lava_Croft | or the fact that the film covering the shell just tears off | 14:57 |
| rikanee | the N9, imo, could've been something, but it was a pretty solid foundation for what could've been. | 14:57 |
| Lava_Croft | no matter how well you treat the device | 14:57 |
| Lava_Croft | shit just chips off | 14:57 |
| Lava_Croft | the N9 is a clear indication that Nokia could have made it fine without Windows Phone | 14:58 |
| ashley | damn right | 14:58 |
| Lava_Croft | and still be able to make both the smartphones and the MIDs | 14:58 |
| Lava_Croft | im not a brand type person, but when you think of Elop saying Meego wasnt ready | 14:58 |
| Lava_Croft | and then looking at the WP7 software running on my brother's HTC device | 14:58 |
| Lava_Croft | i get a little agitated | 14:59 |
| *** vogon has quit IRC | 14:59 | |
| Lava_Croft | and wonder if that was ready | 14:59 |
| rikanee | Lava_Croft: you could imagine how I felt when I saw that the N9 could actually read Office files out of the box | 14:59 |
| Lava_Croft | oh well, not a day for agitation! | 14:59 |
| Lava_Croft | rikanee: imagine how i felt when i saw no support for internet radio in mediaplyer on n9 | 14:59 |
| Lava_Croft | :P | 14:59 |
| rikanee | ehh, well, regression from Maemo 5 ;) | 15:00 |
| Lava_Croft | theres gaping holes in harmattan on the n9, but its just so special :) | 15:00 |
| Lava_Croft | and so Nokia | 15:00 |
| Lava_Croft | hardware and sofware as a complete package | 15:00 |
| rikanee | Lava_Croft: really? imo all I lack is games, really. | 15:00 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont really play games on it, my wife has an iphone and we have a nexus7 | 15:00 |
| rikanee | (an IR transmitter would be handy, but alas) | 15:00 |
| Lava_Croft | i beat oregon trail on n900 and thats about it:) | 15:01 |
| ashley | Harmattan lacks speed dialing function -- that was quite a surprise to me at least, since like most Nokia phones have had that basic & essential feature | 15:01 |
| rikanee | SMS, calls, media player, video, camera, office, Linux shell, what more? | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I wish all friggin appliances finally moved on and binned IR in favor of BT | 15:01 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont use speed dial, i do use the shortcut menu a lot to get to the phone | 15:01 |
| Lava_Croft | you know, half-pull up the screen | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't you feel like getting trolled each time you need to point at your TV with that IR remote? | 15:02 |
| Lava_Croft | DocScrutinizer05: i reckon the cost of IR is a fraction of BT | 15:02 |
| Lava_Croft | and hihi playing with IR remotes | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, maybe half | 15:02 |
| Lava_Croft | you remember those watches from back in zee day | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, got one | 15:02 |
| Lava_Croft | god that was fun | 15:02 |
| Lava_Croft | then we got those universal remotes | 15:03 |
| Lava_Croft | those had a way more powerful transmitter | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah CIR is soooo 70s | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you can't find a single friggin TV using BT, WLAN, or just 443MHz remote | 15:05 |
| jaska | ha, my aunt had a tv with ultrasonic remote | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so when your TV is placed on the floor you need to lift the remote from table each time you want to send a command to TV | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ultrasonic is 60s | 15:07 |
| jaska | it was a color tv tho.. which wasnt so common here in 60s | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, ok, make that 80s and 70s then | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while in the 50s they had cable remote | 15:07 |
| jaska | prolly 70s.. it was early 90s or late 80s when i saw it | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 15:07 |
| jaska | ive seen cable remotes too, but in 80s stuff | 15:08 |
| *** orson_ has joined #maemo | 15:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, my Akai GX635 had a remote 11pin DIN plug, which I built a remote with nice keys and 12m cable for | 15:09 |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 15:09 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | been ~1980 | 15:09 |
| *** futpib has quit IRC | 15:11 | |
| *** orson has quit IRC | 15:11 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, *my* gta04 specs from times back with Openmoko had a 4xx/8xx transceiver ;-D | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a pity OM never came to manufacture that device | 15:15 |
| *** rd_ has joined #maemo | 15:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (it also had an bidir IR interface) | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both CIR and IrDA | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | optimized for CIR | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and IrDA just dual-use | 15:17 |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 15:18 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reminds me to move that N904 ML thread to tmo and add Nikolaus' answer | 15:20 |
| *** disco_stu_droid has joined #maemo | 15:21 | |
| *** Neutron115 has quit IRC | 15:22 | |
| *** Neutron115 has joined #maemo | 15:23 | |
| *** at1as has joined #maemo | 15:23 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>Since I read between your words that nobody from the N900 community has done it yet, I am not sure if we can do it better in reasonable time and missing big budget. I would be happy if anyone proves me wrong by working on it and showing tangible results. I think this community will then try to help as good as possible. | 15:24 |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 15:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nikolaus | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PS: if someone wants donate me a N900 I can take a look inside.<< | 15:24 |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 15:24 | |
| *** trumee has quit IRC | 15:24 | |
| *** disco_stu has quit IRC | 15:24 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 15:24 | |
| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: will the RX-GTA05 base board be compatible straight up with N900 peripheral devices, or will I need to buy new ones? | 15:25 |
| *** disco_stu_droid is now known as disco_stu | 15:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which peripheral devices? | 15:26 |
| *** trumee has joined #maemo | 15:26 | |
| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: LCD, camera, magnet sensor, keyboard, etc | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in my book (main) camera and hw kbd are part of the mainboard | 15:31 |
| rikanee | from what I've been reading on the IRC, it's all-new electronics that happen to fit into the N900 shell | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and for now it's nothing but just an idea | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the current gta04 board has a option to connect hw kbd and camera | 15:32 |
| *** bef0rd has joined #maemo | 15:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for the N900 replacement PCB I'd expect those components the be part of the basic kit | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | particularly kbd | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the magnet sensor (compass) I have no particular opinion | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably a nice-to-have as integrated part of base PCB, since the manufacturing and BOM is just a few cents to max two or three EUR higher, while later addition is almost impossible | 15:35 |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 15:36 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 15:36 | |
| *** odin_ has joined #maemo | 15:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to make it utterly clear I'd expect such N904 to be able to run maemo5/fremantle with only minimal tweaks | 15:38 |
| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: basically, have as many fun things as possible on-board, to extend the fun you'll have with the device. | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | such a device would be ~600EUR min anyway, I guess. So not much sense in saving a 5 bucks for a nice feature like compass, eh? | 15:39 |
| rikanee | ++ | 15:39 |
| rikanee | DocScrutinizer05: compass, nice nav chips, Hirose connectors for all the radios, etc. | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (600) we might get it cheaper if actually >1000 users would preorder | 15:40 |
| *** murrayc has quit IRC | 15:41 | |
| *** MetalGearSolid has joined #maemo | 15:44 | |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 15:45 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 15:45 | |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 15:47 | |
| *** bef0rd has joined #maemo | 15:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/downloads/48/ | 15:49 |
| *** bef0rd has quit IRC | 15:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for the minimal-tweaks statement above, it remains to get evaluated how easily we can replace core closed blobs like the ISI libs for acces/interface to modem | 16:00 |
| *** triggerhappy has joined #maemo | 16:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so, while I seem to recall stskeeps made fremantle run on a beagleboard quite some years ago, a *comprehensive* port of maemo5/fremantle incl all "peripheral" functions like modem, BT, whatever is for sure a demanding project | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | would create a whole new major community effort to make that fly | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I probably wouldn't miss the Nokia dialer too much, if it turned out we need to drop it for some FOSS dialer | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and until all that reaches production level stability, there's qtMoko, SHR, and other distros that should run on N904 much similar to the way they already do on GTA04 and even GTA02 | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, sorry. But once in a while you may dream a bit, no? | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (and of course there are all the various mer versions that got adapted to N900, and some even to GTA02. And then, what about sailfish that's allegedly portable to new hw platforms in one nightshift) | 16:11 |
| *** hardaker has joined #maemo | 16:27 | |
| *** rd_ has quit IRC | 16:29 | |
| GeneralAntilles | MWKN parser ate a bunch of lines. :o | 16:36 |
| *** newbie19 has joined #maemo | 16:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ugh | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | must've been hungry | 16:44 |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 16:44 | |
| *** robink has quit IRC | 16:45 | |
| * Shapeshifter is still wondering what to get when his second N900 dies (probably soon) | 16:45 | |
| *** robink has joined #maemo | 16:45 | |
| Shapeshifter | Everything is shit these days :| | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no replacement for N900, except a new N900 | 16:46 |
| *** eijk has joined #maemo | 16:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://negrielectronics.com/nokia-n900-media-tablet-unlocked-black-p-2709.html | 16:48 |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 16:49 | |
| *** eijk_ has quit IRC | 16:50 | |
| *** FIQ has quit IRC | 16:50 | |
| *** FIQ has joined #maemo | 16:50 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (MWKN) >>Even her boots? \\ Would I lie to you? \\ Shit, you musta been hungry! \\ Yeah, this is true. | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pinged Jaffa. Some sort of unicode whitespace character I picked up in the quote. | 16:55 |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 17:01 | |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 17:01 | |
| *** BCMM has joined #maemo | 17:01 | |
| *** qwazix has quit IRC | 17:02 | |
| BCMM | on my N900, i seem to have the majority of my icons missing, and some applications crashing on startup, following having to force it to restart | 17:03 |
| BCMM | i have " EXT3-fs warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended EXT3-fs warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended" in dmesg. how should i go about doing that? | 17:05 |
| *** qwazix has joined #maemo | 17:05 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 17:05 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 17:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: iirc you're alarmed author? | 17:06 |
| *** warfare has joined #maemo | 17:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Shapeshifter: head -n 1 /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/recaller.py|od -cx | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, sorry | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind | 17:10 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 is afk | 17:12 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 17:13 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BCMM: seems that's a painfully common problem introduced by CSSU-T8 | 17:13 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: is that the latest update? also, is the filesystem's state the cause of my problems? | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably restoring pre-CSSU-T8 BM backup and then not updating to T8 is your best option | 17:15 |
| BCMM | i do not have such a backup. is there a quick fix? | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | none I know of | 17:16 |
| BCMM | i've managed to mount /home read-only, is it safe to fsck it now? | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, you can't fsck a mounted device afaik | 17:16 |
| BCMM | you can, it just tells you you shouldn't | 17:16 |
| *** VDVsx has quit IRC | 17:16 | |
| freemangordon_ | BCMM: ~rescueos | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then yes, go ahead | 17:17 |
| *** freemangordon_ is now known as freemangordon | 17:17 | |
| jon_y | well, remount after checking, should flush some invalid cache | 17:17 |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 17:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just better do a backup first, even now that it's corrupted you may want to have a backup of it, just in case fsck fails and ruins it even more | 17:17 |
| BCMM | jon_y: i can't unmount. | 17:17 |
| jon_y | BCMM: -o remount,ro | 17:18 |
| jon_y | after that, remount,rw | 17:18 |
| BCMM | yes, i have done that | 17:18 |
| BCMM | but wouldn't it be saner to reboot after fsck, rather than mount rw again? | 17:18 |
| *** DaRoDi has joined #maemo | 17:18 | |
| jon_y | sure, works too | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do you have BM? | 17:19 |
| freemangordon | BCMM: boot rescueOS, dd your /home to file on SD card and do fsck from there | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | (dd is just in case) | 17:21 |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 17:21 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 17:22 | |
| *** BCMM has quit IRC | 17:23 | |
| *** cityLights has quit IRC | 17:23 | |
| *** BCMM has joined #maemo | 17:24 | |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 17:25 | |
| BCMM | e2fsck segfaulted. | 17:26 |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 17:26 | |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer05: is it yet known why this happens? | 17:27 |
| jon_y | oomkiller? | 17:28 |
| *** tanty has joined #maemo | 17:29 | |
| BCMM | oomkiller surely sends KILL not SEGV? | 17:29 |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 17:30 | |
| jon_y | maybe malloc gave null | 17:30 |
| jon_y | no idea | 17:30 |
| jon_y | use rescueOS and fsck from a PC? | 17:30 |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 17:30 | |
| BCMM | that is supposed to be impossible on linux, because of oomkiller | 17:31 |
| jon_y | or maybe dd and fsck the image | 17:31 |
| *** BCMM has quit IRC | 17:34 | |
| *** robink has quit IRC | 17:37 | |
| *** robink has joined #maemo | 17:40 | |
| *** brzys has joined #maemo | 17:43 | |
| *** VDVsx has joined #maemo | 17:44 | |
| *** robink has quit IRC | 17:50 | |
| *** robink has joined #maemo | 17:53 | |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 17:53 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 17:54 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 17:55 | |
| *** eMHa has quit IRC | 18:00 | |
| *** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo | 18:04 | |
| *** geaaru has joined #maemo | 18:05 | |
| *** norrsken has joined #maemo | 18:06 | |
| *** Smily has quit IRC | 18:08 | |
| divVerent | is there another player alternative than openmediaplayer? | 18:15 |
| divVerent | I have an UV swap issue with openmediaplayer... for at least some files, playback becomes UV swapped (red/blue swapped basically) after a few sec | 18:15 |
| divVerent | may I have triggered this with CSSU Transitions Tuner or Theme Customizer? | 18:15 |
| divVerent | PROBABLY not, as media playback is an overlay | 18:16 |
| divVerent | it only happens to some videos, maybe due to a recent ffmpeg/x264 update | 18:17 |
| *** andre__ has joined #maemo | 18:26 | |
| *** andre__ has quit IRC | 18:26 | |
| *** andre__ has joined #maemo | 18:26 | |
| *** DaRoDi has quit IRC | 18:28 | |
| *** XATRIX has quit IRC | 18:29 | |
| *** NIN101 has joined #maemo | 18:50 | |
| divVerent | FWIW the uv swap issue only happens with open-media-player | 18:53 |
| *** andre__ has quit IRC | 18:54 | |
| divVerent | it also does not happen in the very first openmediaplayer package, but that does not help me, as that one has no question dialog for opening whole folders | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's extremely strange since afaik OMP also uses MAFW backend, as does stock player | 18:58 |
| divVerent | it probably is triggered by some draw operation on the GUI | 18:59 |
| divVerent | which the stock player does not do | 18:59 |
| divVerent | that may explain why it only happens after about 0.5 sec | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's possible | 18:59 |
| divVerent | seeking also ALWAYS causes it | 19:00 |
| divVerent | even seeking to start before these 0.5 sec | 19:00 |
| divVerent | trying a reboot now | 19:00 |
| *** retard has quit IRC | 19:09 | |
| *** Pilke has joined #maemo | 19:10 | |
| *** norrsken__ has joined #maemo | 19:10 | |
| divVerent | persists after reboot | 19:10 |
| *** norrsken has quit IRC | 19:10 | |
| *** norrsken__ has quit IRC | 19:14 | |
| *** newbie19 has quit IRC | 19:22 | |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 19:22 | |
| *** florian has quit IRC | 19:26 | |
| *** Vanadis_ has joined #maemo | 19:30 | |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 19:32 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 19:32 | |
| *** WielkiTost is now known as dos1 | 19:32 | |
| divVerent | I find no way to avoid the issue, even after downgrading both ffmpeg and x264 to an older tree | 19:34 |
| divVerent | this probably SHOULD be fixing it, so maybe I did not go old enough | 19:34 |
| *** Vanadis has quit IRC | 19:35 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 19:37 | |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 19:39 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 19:45 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 19:45 | |
| divVerent | DocScrutinizer05: maybe you know... as a workaround, can I somehow use mediaplayer for video and openmediaplayer for audio? | 19:45 |
| divVerent | until I know what is actually causing it | 19:46 |
| divVerent | will tomorrow try to encode a video with different ffmpeg versions and different x264 versions | 19:46 |
| *** SmilyOrg is now known as Smily | 19:53 | |
| *** iDont has joined #maemo | 19:58 | |
| *** thomasjfox has joined #maemo | 20:00 | |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 20:02 | |
| *** florian has joined #maemo | 20:02 | |
| *** piggz has joined #maemo | 20:02 | |
| *** stef_204 has quit IRC | 20:09 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo | 20:11 | |
| *** xes has joined #maemo | 20:12 | |
| *** disco_stu has quit IRC | 20:20 | |
| *** eMHa has joined #maemo | 20:21 | |
| *** valerius2k is now known as valeriusN | 20:23 | |
| *** disco_stu has joined #maemo | 20:24 | |
| *** disco_stu_droid has joined #maemo | 20:35 | |
| *** triggerhappy has quit IRC | 20:38 | |
| *** MetalGearSolid has quit IRC | 20:38 | |
| *** disco_stu has quit IRC | 20:39 | |
| *** disco_stu_droid is now known as disco_stu | 20:39 | |
| *** uen| has joined #maemo | 20:46 | |
| *** thomasjfox has quit IRC | 20:48 | |
| *** uen has quit IRC | 20:50 | |
| *** uen| is now known as uen | 20:50 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 20:50 | |
| *** piggz has joined #maemo | 20:50 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 20:54 | |
| *** piggz has joined #maemo | 20:55 | |
| *** lbt is now known as lbt_away | 20:58 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 21:10 | |
| *** piggz has joined #maemo | 21:10 | |
| *** futpib has joined #maemo | 21:14 | |
| *** geaaru has quit IRC | 21:17 | |
| *** arcean has joined #maemo | 21:19 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo | 21:21 | |
| *** vblazquez has quit IRC | 21:23 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC | 21:26 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 21:26 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 21:27 | |
| *** thomasjfox has joined #maemo | 21:28 | |
| *** vblazquez has joined #maemo | 21:30 | |
| *** edheldil has quit IRC | 21:34 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo | 21:39 | |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 21:39 | |
| *** Martix has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** Custodian has quit IRC | 21:43 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has left #maemo | 21:43 | |
| *** Martix has joined #maemo | 21:44 | |
| *** XATRIX has joined #maemo | 21:46 | |
| *** mvp has joined #maemo | 21:47 | |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 21:48 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 21:48 | |
| *** grinsekatze has quit IRC | 21:58 | |
| *** miniyo has quit IRC | 21:59 | |
| *** miniyo has joined #maemo | 22:00 | |
| *** grinsekatze has joined #maemo | 22:00 | |
| *** Mek has quit IRC | 22:01 | |
| *** Mek has joined #maemo | 22:04 | |
| *** mvp has quit IRC | 22:07 | |
| *** mvp has joined #maemo | 22:07 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC | 22:16 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo | 22:17 | |
| *** norrsken has joined #maemo | 22:17 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC | 22:22 | |
| *** b0unc3 has quit IRC | 22:22 | |
| *** piggz has joined #maemo | 22:23 | |
| *** Mike11 has joined #maemo | 22:23 | |
| iDont | divVerent: hi, regarding the issue you posted last Saturday ("1. install bb-p, 2. install swapon, 3. remove swapon. Where does /sbin/swapon point to?"): busybox-power does not serve any purpose in that equation as it does not touch /sbin/swapon at all. Postinst detects that /sbin/swapon already exists and will leave it alone. So you'll break your setup whether you're using bb-p or not :). | 22:25 |
| iDont | The same goes for all other utils that Maemo depends on during boot, as all of those will already exist during installation of busybox-power. | 22:25 |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo | 22:34 | |
| *** b0unc3 has joined #maemo | 22:35 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo | 22:39 | |
| *** valeriusN has quit IRC | 22:41 | |
| *** valerius2k has joined #maemo | 22:42 | |
| *** thomasjfox has quit IRC | 22:48 | |
| *** Pilke has quit IRC | 22:50 | |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 22:54 | |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 22:55 | |
| *** iDont has quit IRC | 22:55 | |
| *** lbt_away is now known as lbt | 22:56 | |
| *** timeless has joined #maemo | 23:00 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 23:01 | |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 23:02 | |
| *** BCMM has joined #maemo | 23:05 | |
| *** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC | 23:05 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 23:10 | |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 23:11 | |
| *** dhbiker has quit IRC | 23:13 | |
| *** OkropNick has quit IRC | 23:14 | |
| *** norrsken__ has joined #maemo | 23:16 | |
| *** norrsken has quit IRC | 23:16 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC | 23:18 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo | 23:22 | |
| *** dos11 has joined #maemo | 23:22 | |
| *** dos1 has quit IRC | 23:24 | |
| *** LauRoman has joined #maemo | 23:29 | |
| *** _rd has joined #maemo | 23:32 | |
| *** WielkiTost has joined #maemo | 23:38 | |
| *** dos11 has quit IRC | 23:38 | |
| *** NIN101 has quit IRC | 23:39 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has quit IRC | 23:41 | |
| *** dos1 has joined #maemo | 23:42 | |
| *** sixwheeledbeast has joined #maemo | 23:42 | |
| *** WielkiTost has quit IRC | 23:43 | |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 23:44 | |
| *** goldkatze has joined #maemo | 23:45 | |
| *** piggz has joined #maemo | 23:49 | |
| *** XATRIX has quit IRC | 23:55 | |
| *** _rd has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
