IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2013-06-03

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orsondoes anyone know or may point me to docs, what does it mean 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc01:02
orsondoes anyone know or may point me to docs, what does '2maemo8+0m5' mean in packages' name?01:03
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* Win7Mac wonders if there's a list of factoids known to infobot similar to this?:
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DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: 140k01:34
DocScrutinizer05what a bitch ;-P01:34
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Win7Macis there such a list online available?01:35
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!01:37
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot01:37
infobotSince Sun Jun  2 22:36:29 2013, there have been 0 modifications, 0 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 0 commands.  I have been awake for 51s this session, and currently reference 119066 factoids.  I'm using about 18320 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 1.62/0.1 child 0/001:37
DocScrutinizer05119k sorry01:37
DocScrutinizer05and no, such list doesn't exist01:38
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys factoid01:38
infobotFactoid search of 'factoid' by key (16 of 30): factoid bigdog ;; factoids: x ;; factoids ;; testfactoid ;; $factoid ;; imagine a factoid ;; factoid clue ;; factoid_char-major-6 ;; make a factoid ;; newfactoid ;; my factoid ;; setting factoids: x ;; factoid war ;; plural factoids ;; kopete's factoid ;; cmd: dpkg factoid (.*?).01:38
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Win7MacLOL factoid war...01:39
DocScrutinizer05~+help listkeys01:40
infobot   Desc: Search the factoid database by key (factoid)01:40
infobot  Usage: listkeys <regex>01:40
infobotExample: listkeys infobot01:40
DocScrutinizer05REGEX??? :-o01:40
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DocScrutinizer05~listkeys fa..oid01:40
infobotFactoid search of 'fa..oid' by key returned no results.01:41
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DocScrutinizer05~listkeys fa.*oid01:41
infobotFactoid search of 'fa.*oid' by key returned no results.01:41
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys fa*oid01:41
infobotFactoid search of 'fa*oid' by key (14 of 30): factoid mindjuju_ ;; emptyfactoidname ;; testfactoid ;; $factoid ;; locked factoids ;; factoid misty ;; bruggie's factoid ;; cmd: inapparopriate factoid (.*?) ;; factoid word switch ;; newfactoid ;; factoid_char-major-6 ;; factoid bigdog ;; setting factoids: x ;; my factoid.01:41
DocScrutinizer05rather shell patterns01:41
Win7Mac...just to impress the guys in the #worpress channel ;-) This is so poor in relation:
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DocScrutinizer05~inapparopriate factoid foobar02:06
infobotYOU GOT THE WRONG FACTOID, foobar02:06
DocScrutinizer05~dice 15d802:07
infobotrolled 3,3,7,6,6,7,7,7,1,4,8,8,7,2,6 = 8202:07
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Win7Mac#wordpress-bot would be jealous, if she read all this ;-)02:09
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DocScrutinizer05~wiki wordpress02:17
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{about|the blogging software|the blog host|}} {{pp-move-indef}} {{Infobox software | name = WordPress | logo = | screenshot = | caption = WordPress Dashboard | collapsible = yes | developer = WordPress Foundation | status = Active | released = {{start date|2003|05|27}} | latest release version = 3.5.1 | latest release date = {{start date and age|2013|01|24}}{{cite web ...02:17
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DocScrutinizer05~spell wordpress02:17
infobotpossible spellings for wordpress: word press word-press wardress depress wardress's waitress woodpiles woodpile's wordplay's Woodrow's verdure's02:17
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Win7MacI see you prefer midgard ;-)02:18
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DocScrutinizer05I prefer assembler02:19
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Win7Mac[00:34] <doc-bot> Win7Mac: WordPress 3.5 has been downloaded 21,814,719 times02:22
Win7Macthe good thing about next release 3.6 (~in 4 weeks) is, it will have Audio/Video support in Core:
DocScrutinizer05one of them been to my box, where my sysop installed that crap for his wife, and then I had the hassle with the vulnerabilities since he didn't maintain and update it (if that was even a possibility)02:24
GeneralAntillesWordPress is a big ole security hole.02:25
GeneralAntillesGiven their install base, it's no surprise, though.02:25
DocScrutinizer05I cured it with fire, err radical apt meant02:25
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: I cured it with fire, err radical apt means02:26
GeneralAntillesListening to bergie rant about it is entertaining.02:26
DocScrutinizer05I bet it is02:27
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if bergie would find it interesting to hear DocScrutinizer05 rant about midgard ;-P02:27
Win7Macwho would have interest in hacking my site besides guys like you :p02:27
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Win7Maci have one IP trying to register but he fails since weeks02:28
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Win7Macthere's plugins for that02:28
DocScrutinizer05every script kiddie entry level bot kit nowadays comes with a "conquer the world by automatically owning all WP boxen you can get hold of"02:29
Win7Macyou're telling that ~22 million sites/admins are at risk?02:30
DocScrutinizer05no. Probably 21.5 mio are already owned and thus safe from further attacks ;-P02:31
Win7MacROTFL... why?02:31
Win7Mactheres plugins for that and no _major_ complaints so far02:32
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, what blade enclosure are we using, by the way?02:32
Win7Macbesides weak PWs02:32
DocScrutinizer05because those crackers are actually pretty good to defend their booty against other blackhats02:32
GeneralAntillesWordPress's problem is that you have to update it regularly to keep it secure.02:32
GeneralAntillesIt's fine if it's updated regularly.02:32
Win7Macit is, though 3.6 is over-due02:33
GeneralAntillesCurrently 2/4 filled?02:34
DocScrutinizer05all 4 filled02:35
DocScrutinizer05but only 2 sockets populated, on 2 bladed each 102:35
DocScrutinizer05so we have two blades with one CPU and 2 with 0 CPU02:36
GeneralAntillesAhhh, OK.02:36
GeneralAntillesEach blade is dual socket?02:36
nox-whats the point of a blade w/o cpu?02:36
GeneralAntillesRoom for expansion?02:36
nox-well ok...02:36
DocScrutinizer05spae parts ;-P02:37
DocScrutinizer05spare even02:37
GeneralAntillesBetter answer02:37
nox-ok :)02:37
GeneralAntillesSince buying the empty boards ahead seems wasteful.02:37
DocScrutinizer05you might need them for thermal concept of enclosure02:38
GeneralAntillesRandom interest for the room: Vision for in 1 year? 5 years?02:38
DocScrutinizer051 year: much like now02:38
DocScrutinizer055 yeras: almost forgotten02:38
Win7Macand that out of your kb...02:39
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, Jolla doesn't seem inclined towards managing a user/dev community for itself.02:40
DocScrutinizer05like this one:
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GeneralAntillesI wonder if might act as an Internet Tablet Talk for modern open source mobile platforms.02:40
DocScrutinizer05we started that motion last week iirc02:41
GeneralAntilles(obviously that growth would have to be largely organic)02:41
GeneralAntillesThat does not require any particularly agreement or cooperation from Jolla.02:41
DocScrutinizer05seem some Ryan Abel guy in MWKN wrote about new forums in tmo02:42
GeneralAntillesReggie's always been very much JFDI with his web forum endeavors.02:42
GeneralAntillesThat guy.02:42
Win7MacGA, +1 on jolla. we'll see!02:43
DocScrutinizer05~wtf jfdi02:43
infobotGee...  I don't know what jfdi means...02:43
GeneralAntillesJust Fucking Do It02:43
Win7MacGe... ;-902:43
DocScrutinizer05~jfdi is Just Fucking Do It02:43
infobotDocScrutinizer05: please, watch your language.02:43
DocScrutinizer05you bitch!!02:43
infobotsomebody said 50 was still quite common02:43
DocScrutinizer05~jfdi is Just F*cking Do It02:44
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0502:44
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(02:44
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!02:45
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Win7Machey, relax, it's just a bot like you + me02:45
DocScrutinizer05~+chanset #maemo02:46
infobotchan: #maemo (see _default also)02:46
infobot OnJoin => 1, _time_added => 1179878166, autojoin => infobot, factoidSearch => $chan _default02:46
DocScrutinizer05~+chanset _default02:46
infobotDefault channel settings02:46
infobot BZFlag => 1, Debian => 1, DebianExtra => 1, Dict => 1, Exchange => 1, Factoids => 1, HTTPDtype => 1, Kernel => 1, Math => 1, Plug => 1, Quote => 1, RootWarn => 1, Rss => 1, Search => 1, Topic => 1, Units => 1, Uptime => 1, UserInfo => 1, Weather => 1, Zippy => 1, addressCharacter => ~, allowConv => 1, allowTelling => 1, botmail => 1, case => 102:46
infobot chanlimitcheckPlus => 60, cookie => 1, countdown => 1, debian => 1, debianRefreshInterval => 7, dice => 1, dns => 1, exchange => 1, factoidArguments => 1, factoidDeleteDelay => 7, factoidPreventForgetLimit => 100, factoidPreventForgetLimitTime => 180000, factoidSearch => _default, floodMessages => 10:30, floodRepeat => 2:10, freshmeat => 102:46
infobot insult => 1, ircTextCounters => heh hah :) ? hi lol, joinfloodCheck => 1, karma => 1, lart => 1, limitcheckInterval => 60, limitcheckPlus => 60, log => 1, maxListReplyCount => 30, md5 => 1, minVolunteerLength => 50, newsDefaultExpire => 7, newsKeepRead => 1, newsNotifyAll => 1, nickometer => 1, pager => 1, piglatin => 1, randomFactoidInterval => 60, reverse => 102:46
infobot rss => 1, scramble => 1, sed => 1, seen => 1, seenFlushInterval => 120, seenMaxDays => 900, seenStats => 1, seenStoreAll => 1, sendPublicLimitBytes => 1000, slashdot => 1, spell => 1, tell => 1, translate => 1, upsidedown => 1, verstats => 1, wikipedia => 1, wtf => 1, zfi => 1, zsi => 102:46
DocScrutinizer05insult =>102:47
DocScrutinizer05but no profane=>002:48
DocScrutinizer05maybe 0 is default02:48
DocScrutinizer05and somebody deleted profane=>102:48
GeneralAntillesNeed to protect the chilrens02:48
DocScrutinizer05~rape herself02:49
* infobot takes herself behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams02:49
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys 5002:49
infobotFactoid search of '50' by key (22 of 2477): port 650 ;; rfc 2050 ;; rfc 50 ;; rfc950 ;; zip 15003 ;; zip 15069 ;; zip 18507 ;; zip 20050 ;; zip 24506 ;; zip 30750 ;; zip 35079 ;; zip 39502 ;; zip 45002 ;; zip 46501 ;; zip 46502 ;; zip 50264 ;; zip 50314 ;; zip 5034 ;; zip 50420 ;; zip 50433 ;; zip 50551 ;; zip 50658.02:49
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys " 50"02:50
infobotFactoid search of ' 50' by key (22 of 616): port 505 ;; rfc 501 ;; rfc 504 ;; zip 50001 ;; zip 50064 ;; zip 50110 ;; zip 50122 ;; zip 50123 ;; zip 50135 ;; zip 50252 ;; zip 50272 ;; zip 50301 ;; zip 50306 ;; zip 50323 ;; zip 50402 ;; zip 50446 ;; zip 50449 ;; zip 50478 ;; zip 5050 ;; zip 50517 ;; zip 50532 ;; zip 50551.02:50
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys " 50*$"02:50
infobotFactoid search of ' 50*$' by key (21 of 616): area code 507 ;; port 5005 ;; port 509 ;; rfc 505 ;; zip 5009 ;; zip 50201 ;; zip 50235 ;; zip 50265 ;; zip 50304 ;; zip 50306 ;; zip 50321 ;; zip 50335 ;; zip 5041 ;; zip 5043 ;; zip 50434 ;; zip 5047 ;; zip 50473 ;; zip 50531 ;; zip 50545 ;; zip 50573 ;; zip 50583.02:50
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys " $*50"02:50
infobotFactoid search of ' $*50' by key (1): actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever.02:50
DocScrutinizer05~forget actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever02:51
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever02:51
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: anyway that reaching out to new communities is exactly what chem|st intended with the jolla/sailfish forums02:52
GeneralAntillesI like that approach02:53
DocScrutinizer05and we even plan to offer a direct link - just like been in times of ITT02:53
GeneralAntillesVersus Rob's sekrit emails.02:53
Win7MacGeneralAntilles: 1) clear, community-driven, light-weight HiFo. 2) get hold of everything maemo/meego-related code + rights from NOK. 3) accept + support jolla wherever we can - if they profit, community in general will profit. 4) have proper server-infra to handle additional repos for HARM + sailfish02:53
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GeneralAntillesWhat's the deal with the Harmattan infra and resources?02:54
DocScrutinizer052) there's no such code, just binaries02:54
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GeneralAntillesCode you're not going to make progress on.02:54
GeneralAntillesThere's nobody left at Nokia who even knows what it is.02:55
Win7Macbinaries, whatever there is02:55
GeneralAntillesThat horse has been kicked to death already. And yes, it blends.02:55
DocScrutinizer054) sailfish isn't interested in infra for their repos and stuff02:55
GeneralAntillesRandom note:
GeneralAntillesSTRATA on sale for $129 for Father's Day.02:56
GeneralAntilles(it'll change your life)02:56
DocScrutinizer05can it shut down maemo remotely?02:56
DocScrutinizer05otherwise it won't, I'm afraid02:57
GeneralAntillesHaving notifications on your wrist is a surprisingly significant change02:57
GeneralAntillesalso: a watch you never have to worry about setting again.02:57
DocScrutinizer05I rarely ever get any notifications02:58
GeneralAntillesWELL THEN02:58
DocScrutinizer05I could use a notification every now and then, about me being hungry02:58
GeneralAntillesYou should set an alarm for that02:59
GeneralAntillesWHICH REMINDS ME02:59
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GeneralAntillesI'm procrastinating on MWKN.03:00
DocScrutinizer05the only notifications I get (but I'm glad I don't get them when not at home) are of the class >>** PROBLEM Service Alert: is CRITICAL **<<03:01
GeneralAntillesAt least it's a lighter issue than last week.03:01
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DocScrutinizer05thus, give a a watch with maemo-be-gone and it might actually change my life ;-D03:02
DocScrutinizer05...back to somewhat "normal"03:03
GeneralAntillesYou'd just find another killer project to kill yourself on. ;)03:03
Win7MacDoc, don't fight it, your next device will be a jolla ;)03:04
DocScrutinizer05I have 5 N900 here03:05
DocScrutinizer05and I'm ready to use them!!!03:05
Win7Mac...just to be on the safe side, right?!03:06
Win7Macbe prepared for the nxt decade03:06
DocScrutinizer05honestly the times when I bought a new device every month, to check what funny/cute ideas they had in their hw that I could adopt, are gone03:06
Win7Macnever did that03:07
GeneralAntillesWell, good thing it's been 4 years.03:07
DocScrutinizer05I had to do that, for my job03:07
* GeneralAntilles needs more chumps to aggregate news to @mwkn on Twitter.03:08
DocScrutinizer05eeek, sunday evening03:08
DocScrutinizer05almost forgot03:08
DocScrutinizer05actually monday morning03:08
Win7MacGA: well, last meeting was a load03:08
DocScrutinizer05indeed, not too bad03:09
DocScrutinizer05you probably could pick up one or two details there03:09
Win7MacI always wonder why there's no content here:
DocScrutinizer05let's see: we started unification of councils... we announced BoD elections03:10
Win7Mac...just the thumbnails right side03:10
DocScrutinizer05hmm, dunno03:10
DocScrutinizer05probably because nobody writes anything there03:10
GeneralAntillesI've got 4 stories so far: HiFo Board nominations, council meeting logs, Jolla €100 being made available for EU/.ch/.nl, and being up.03:10
GeneralAntillesIt should pull the top rated stuff from Planet.03:11
GeneralAntillesBut it seems like that component is borked.03:11
GeneralAntilles(That's not me volunteering to fix it)03:11
DocScrutinizer05oh yeah, the last one is probably worth a sentence or two03:11
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, I've got: "The firmware images, flashers, and various development tools for Maemo are now available at"03:11
GeneralAntillesAny details to add?03:11
DocScrutinizer05URL tabletsdev.maemo.org03:12
DocScrutinizer05replacing the long zombie-state (which recently resurrected)03:12
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GeneralAntillesYeah, "URL="03:12
Win7Macadd joergs' paypal in notice to nescessary HW-updates03:14
GeneralAntillesAh, yes, new blade.03:14
DocScrutinizer05we're facing severe problems with autobuilder that need sorting - volunteers welcome03:14
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, got a link to a blog post or talk thread discussing that? :P03:14
DocScrutinizer05not really03:15
DocScrutinizer05the old story over and over again: packages hanging in autobuilder queue, not propagating from devel to testing to extras. Accounts not created/synced to builder03:16
DocScrutinizer05aso aso03:16
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DocScrutinizer05a sidenote:
GeneralAntillesGet somebody to summarize it in a thread or something.03:17
DocScrutinizer05minor issue03:17
DocScrutinizer05the problem is, we're not even able to summarize it03:18
DocScrutinizer05most problems are hardly completely described, not to ask for understanding their nature03:19
DocScrutinizer05dozens of cronjobs are missing, or doing nonsense when running, or simply killing the VM they run on since they eat ram without an end03:20
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GeneralAntillesThat's fine, but what sort of skillset do you need? Could you estimate what sort of investment would be required from a potential volunteer? That sort of thing.03:20
DocScrutinizer05absolutely no clue03:20
DocScrutinizer05somebody who got that autobuilder installed on his private server maybe03:21
DocScrutinizer05or has historical knowledge from the thime that stuff got implemented03:21
GeneralAntillesProbably just X-Fade.03:22
* GeneralAntilles sighs.03:22
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GeneralAntillesDespite a lot of nagging by previous councils, documentation for's various custom solutions is nonexistent.03:23
DocScrutinizer05and nobody (particularly in Nemein) ever pondered writing a 40pp manual "how to"03:23
rikaneeDocScrutinizer05: doesn't help that practically nobody else uses Midgard03:24
DocScrutinizer05and the so-called "knowledge transfer" been paid for by Nokia but actually never really happened03:24
DocScrutinizer05rikanee: I know03:24
DocScrutinizer05rikanee: volunteering to build that whole POS annew, on wordpress? ;-P03:24
rikaneeside note: whatever happened to RMO moving to use OBS?03:24
rikaneeDocScrutinizer05: Midgard handles way, way, way more than the blog and front page though03:25
DocScrutinizer05I can tell you what happened to it: x-fade and javispedro dumped it when it became clear that nokia abandons maemo03:25
rikaneeit's so extensive I have no idea what projects can straight out replace it.03:25
GeneralAntillesI'm really rather surprised at the cost of's support contract with Nemein and how little seems to have been done with it.03:26
DocScrutinizer05rikanee: in fact it's even bigger than that, it's more than just midgard03:26
DocScrutinizer05garage is some other errr system?03:26
GeneralAntillesThe big nasty mess that is Midgard + Garage03:26
DocScrutinizer05yes, that03:27
rikaneeit's so integrated that it'd take months of full-time work.03:27
DocScrutinizer05whatever that is03:27
DocScrutinizer05at least months03:27
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if that's the time of day for a glass ABSOLUT10003:28
GeneralAntillesWould it be easier to jettison autobuilder in favor of OBS?03:28
DocScrutinizer05prolly not03:28
DocScrutinizer05we don't even understand autobuilder03:29
rikaneewell, how hard would it be to keep maintaining autobuilder?03:29
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't even work correctly at the moment, right?03:29
DocScrutinizer05it *kinda* works03:29
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, Sandeman tawny port for me tonight03:29
GeneralAntilles(although I'm beginning to suspect a sensitivity to red grapes)03:29
rikaneeGeneralAntilles: just ask Pali ;)03:29
GeneralAntillesWhat do we think of a subscription option for HiFo donations (e.g., $5/month)?03:30
rikaneefwiw, steamrolling the entire thing (and finally updating would be easier than trying to keep the infra. probably should be played with on a test server.03:31
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Win7Macafter elects probably03:31
DocScrutinizer05(get a beer *before* you click the latter))03:31
GeneralAntillesrikanee, what about Downloads, though?03:32
GeneralAntillesand the social news stuff is pretty involved03:32
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks HARD on >>nelisquare 0.5.0-11 Old version cleaned by repository management<<03:34
rikaneeGeneralAntilles: isn't Downloads a RMO frontend? Replace with COBS and some script to format an RSS feed of newest packages to something nice. As for Maemo News, import it somehow to Wordpress/etc, I guess.03:35
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: THAT is one of our REAL problems *right now*03:35
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: still no maintainer of autobuilder?03:35
Win7Macis there no backup at all from before migration?03:36
GeneralAntillesrikanee, the contents of the contract with Nokia may also preclude nuke-and-rebuild.03:36
rikaneeGeneralAntilles: the support contract with Nokia (paying to maintain Midgard), or the contract for all the stuff?03:36
DocScrutinizer05whatever the contract with nokia says, I for one am not available for a rebuild of this POS, based on... *which* specs03:37
freemangordonok, I will volunteer, unfortunately am too busy with my job lately, won;t be able to do anything before the next weekend03:37
GeneralAntillesrikanee, the contract HiFo may-one-of-these-day sign to hand over to HiFi.03:37
GeneralAntilless/HiFo/HiFo Board/03:37
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: rikanee, the contract HiFo Board may-one-of-these-day sign to hand over to HiFi.03:37
* DocScrutinizer05 writes >>Old version cleaned by repository management<< on a glass, and fills in ABSOLUT until the writing vanishes03:38
rikaneeyeesh. We're getting stuck with Midgard?03:38
DocScrutinizer05we *are*03:38
GeneralAntillesrikanee, no clue.03:38
GeneralAntillesBut, it's unlikely that we'll be able to come up with the volunteers to implement a replacement anytime soon.03:38
DocScrutinizer05by any sane rationale we have no options03:39
GeneralAntilles(maybe I should've played the PowerBall a few weeks ago)03:39
DocScrutinizer05anytime soon? anytime ever!03:39
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GeneralAntillesOptimism, dear DocScrutinizer05. ;)03:40
DocScrutinizer05savvy people interested in maemo get fewer by the week03:40
rikaneewhelp. The door should be left open for renovations though, in case the last person savvy with Midgard drops off.03:40
GeneralAntillesThere are no Midgard-savvy people.03:41
GeneralAntilles(because nobody uses the damn thing)03:41
GeneralAntilles(especially not the old version we have on
* GeneralAntilles just has the last two front-page stories to summarize.03:41
GeneralAntillesWow, Jaffa's not even on IRC these days.03:42
GeneralAntillesMust be busy-busy-busy.03:43
DocScrutinizer05number of users in here also drops by the day03:43
DocScrutinizer05I'm already waiting for the day when we can't reach 20003:43
GeneralAntillesWell, no surprise given that we haven't had a new device in years. :P03:44
GeneralAntillesThere's hope for the future, though!03:44
DocScrutinizer05I'm more often than not felling like flicking a dead horse03:44
DocScrutinizer05and the few motivated guys left over waste their energy on maintaining a monster of IT and organizational infra03:45
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DocScrutinizer05fells like running all town for weeks shouting to find somebody willing to help on a task that you could probably do in a few hours on your own03:46
GeneralAntillesOnce we get a contract, we can figure out what can be streamlined, right?03:46
DocScrutinizer05feels* dang03:46
DocScrutinizer05you can streamline any time you want. You're welcome03:47
DocScrutinizer05alas even streamlining is weeks of work03:47
Win7Macsomebody had an assignment and was rsponsible for miration#1 where things got fuxored, right?03:48
DocScrutinizer05what been that blog thing I posted a question why nobody posted anything since 7 months?03:48
Win7Maccan't claim anything?03:49
DocScrutinizer05I already forgot03:49
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: been there, done that. Futile03:49
DocScrutinizer05please don't ask for details03:49
DocScrutinizer05I pushed like an idiot03:50
DocScrutinizer05no reaction, no result, nuttin03:50
DocScrutinizer05I asked HiFo to ask Nokia if that migration stuff already been paid, since it's not really been delivered yet03:51
DocScrutinizer05response: too late03:51
DocScrutinizer052 months before I *shouted*  "does anybody check what's defect in our infra PLEASE?!"03:52
DocScrutinizer05no reaction03:52
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DocScrutinizer05and I asked for feedback from Niels aka x-fade since january. Nothing *ever* happened03:54
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Win7Macwell, what are the options? ask nemein for an offer on the job03:57
Win7Macthen deal about it03:57
Win7Macand have it backuped by funds03:58
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DocScrutinizer05see meeting 1 week ago (or 2 weeks?), I think I suggested exactly that03:58
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DocScrutinizer05but I'm just one guy, and even while i'm a badass my powers to move things are limited03:59
Win7Macso HiFo needs to officially ask nemein?03:59
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DocScrutinizer05and so far nothing that I didn't manage personally and not listened to anybody else really panned out04:00
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DocScrutinizer05I can't push the whole planet04:00
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Win7MacI do see community owes U 104:01
DocScrutinizer05doesn't help though04:01
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DocScrutinizer05community owes community to get active04:02
DocScrutinizer05I can give suggestions04:02
DocScrutinizer05I have no more free hands to push whatever04:03
DocScrutinizer05I honestly feel like wasting my time like a wise fool04:03
Win7Macin 5 weeks weather will be fine again. With a working HiFo we'll see what we can do then04:05
DocScrutinizer05nothing new04:06
DocScrutinizer05and I guess we will have NO hifo in 5 weeks04:06
Win7Macoh comon, i don't even wanna know what your thinking about04:07
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DocScrutinizer05do you know of any 6 candidates for HiFo?04:08
DocScrutinizer05not even asking for *good* candidates04:08
DocScrutinizer05the last 8 weeks convinced absolutely *everybody* that HiFo isn't a position you wanna have04:09
DocScrutinizer05who wants to join a club that everybody hates?04:09
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Sc0rpiusI still can't edit the title of the post :(04:10
DocScrutinizer05you won't find any candidates for HiFo, except woody and GA04:10
Sc0rpiusbut it's weird: when I click edit on the post, the Title is correct there, but in the tmo thread the old title still appears.04:10
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: and I still can't reproduce since *I* for sure can't edit it04:10
Sc0rpiusaren't you a tmo mod?04:11
DocScrutinizer05ask tmo maintainer!04:11
DocScrutinizer05I already have enough tedious tasks to ruin my day and my life04:11
Win7Macwell, why be so pessimistic? 2 are already in, there are potent guys in council(s) and who knows who gets atracted by that banner on tmo?04:12
DocScrutinizer05yeah who knows (them)04:12
DocScrutinizer05and I can already tell you there's nobody in any council that is eager to become BoD04:13
DocScrutinizer058 weeks ago this was a tad different and my arguments were not as rotten as they are today04:13
Win7MacI'm hoping for some oldschool guys there, though I'm an N9'er04:13
DocScrutinizer05the oldschool guys are mostly gone04:14
DocScrutinizer05or no more interested04:14
Win7Macwell, at lest theres council!04:15
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DocScrutinizer05  to the point, particularly last line04:15
Win7Macyea, copied that. but thats just because of actual personell04:17
DocScrutinizer05do you think anybody who's stating >>After all those problems the word HiFo means the pure evil for me<< is willing to stand for BoD elections, to end in same entity with RMB?04:17
Win7Macwith RMB?04:17
DocScrutinizer05RM Bauer?04:18
Win7Macwhy is with hih mandatory?04:18
Win7Mac+with him, dang04:18
DocScrutinizer05not mandatory, just a possibility04:19
DocScrutinizer05and not even an unlikely one04:19
Win7Macgot that04:19
Win7Macso, we just need enough candidates and GA just made a move!04:21
Win7MacDoc, honestly, give yourself a push for good...04:23
DocScrutinizer05look, i had all this sorted some 6..8 weeks ago, I even had a half a dozen willing candidates just waiting to self-nominate as soon as elections got sorted. HFC missed/messed it04:24
DocScrutinizer05I'm ***DEFINITELY** out of all that04:24
Win7Macno unwilling?04:24
Win7Macwhat's the difference?04:25
DocScrutinizer05I failed to deliver04:25
Win7Macsmart as you are I'm sure you'll find a way to re-asure them!04:27
Win7Macat least try04:28
DocScrutinizer05I made assurances that I thought would almost impossible to break, like HFC picking up on BoD running elections during 14 days after own election04:28
DocScrutinizer05and NO, se above04:28
Win7Maci mean honestly wahts the difference?04:28
Win7Macresult will be the same04:28
Win7Macjust delayed04:29
DocScrutinizer05I'm thru with all that04:29
DocScrutinizer05and former HiFo alienated community and Nokia so much that now it's really hard to see what for we need a HiFo at all04:32
DocScrutinizer05I even start to ponder what's worse, HiFo or Nokia owning the domain and the server04:34
DocScrutinizer05Nokia facilitated shipping server to IPHH, HiFo/Rob not only didn't help on that but actually tried to stop Falk from installing it. Ask me from whom I anticipate less stress regarding infra maintenance04:38
DocScrutinizer05(ok. Rob said that eventually HiFo would compensate me/Falk for shipping costs)04:40
Win7Macjust lets make sure we'll get a proper BoD in place, sailfish might open some doors04:41
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Win7Maci wonder though, why there's not more devs interested04:43
Win7Macin elections no matter council or BoD04:44
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GeneralAntillesWin7Mac, too much toxicity for too long.04:52
GeneralAntillesYou could see it in this channel with the release of Harmattan.04:52
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DocScrutinizer05let me tell you a story. some years ago I pondered writing a commercial app LeastCostRouter that decides which account (GSM, SIP1, SIP2...) to use for outbound calls on N900. For such a thing to work properly I would've needed a way to intercept the call-establish dbus messages from dialer to the telepathy deamon that handles all that call stuff. Or even better have a hook in telepathy to register a callback function or sth, that gets05:03
DocScrutinizer05executed on every call-establish to cook the number/account before telepathy establishes it. So I asked the telepathy guys in Colabora Inc(?) who created the fremantle telepathy how to implement such thing. The answer been "meh, why do you want to do that for N900? come to harmattan and get a patch to telepathy there, and everything will be fine". They outright refused to consider N900 a worthwhile platform for any such improvement and05:03
DocScrutinizer05actively tried to lure all devels into HARM and abandon fremantle.05:03
Win7Maci just don't get how people could spill poison for things they have no influece on like HARM simply beeing there as a kind of "progress" Nokia made on maemo. kind of same situation with sailfish now05:03
DocScrutinizer05see my ^^^ last post05:04
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rikaneeDocScrutinizer05: with a major platform change, it's pretty much desperation to get devs on HARM.05:05
Win7Macif we get sailfish on N9, community will freak out :O05:08
DocScrutinizer05long ago: "if we get harmattan on N900, community will freak out"05:09
rikaneewell, this time community's holding its breath for Jolla instead of watching the slow trainwreck that happened with the N9.05:10
DocScrutinizer05"...or `how i learned to love the bomb´" tmo post anybody?05:11
Win7Maci don't expect though, so i won't be disappointed if that doesn't come for N905:11
GeneralAntillesI suspect what it's going to come down to is, "Feel free to build an image for N9/N950 from Mer/Nemo."05:12
DocScrutinizer051000% sure05:12
GeneralAntillesThey're missing a bigger opportunity than they realize pursuing this slow reveal shit.05:12
GeneralAntillesWhile the Maemo/MeeGo community moves on to Blackberry and co.05:13
GeneralAntillesBut, they need people to buy their phone.05:13
GeneralAntillesFor me, that's a small price to pay for a company that (potentially) actually cares about having me as a customer.05:14
rikaneeGeneralAntilles: they've already gone on the record to say that they're not officially building an image for N9/50, people running Sailfish on N9 with comparable performance would really eat into their sales.05:14
Win7Macwell thats bad news :(05:16
rikaneebut the hardware adaptation's already done, so assuming they don't password-protect the Sailfish repos, anyone sufficiently dedicated can "zypper install mp-sailfish-999-pr"05:16
GeneralAntillesMeh, it's 2009-era hardware anyway.05:16
DocScrutinizer05>>A suggestion to Jolla regarding this: you could port sailfish to N900 as a technology preview...<<05:16
rikaneeDocScrutinizer05: 'lol.'05:17
rikaneeFremantle on qemu-system-rx51 would run faster than that.05:17
rikaneeAIUI Sailfish is compositing-heavy, which the N900's GPU drivers would not appreciate (RAM would seriously lack, too)05:19
DocScrutinizer05well, if compositing (in a way that N900 couldn't do) is a mandatory core system requirement of sailfish, then they already have done sth stillborn05:21
DocScrutinizer05sure RAM limitations would most likely slow down stuff massively05:22
DocScrutinizer05we see that on fremantle all the time, don't we?05:22
Win7MacOMG, dawn comes around... good night all05:22
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DocScrutinizer05...but if they're not even able to run desktop plus one app in a 256MB of RAM, then they also did fail on building a even semi-decent system. Heck I ran a full featured linux on a laptop with 192MB ram and a slooow HDD, powered by a P-II30005:25
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DocScrutinizer05and sure openoffice took ~3min to start, but so what, once it been started it worked excellent05:25
DocScrutinizer05I accepted the 3 min load time since I knew about my hw05:26
DocScrutinizer05and in the end, if sailfish would work *too smooth* on N900, there wasn't a motivation to buy a jolla device, eh?05:27
DocScrutinizer05so what would jolla lose by porting sailfish to N900?05:29
DocScrutinizer05after all a decent OS should run on a platform half the CPU grunt and RAM size of your target platform you want to ship it on. Otherwise there's no headroom left to do anything useful with the device, once you go beyond the factory default05:33
DocScrutinizer05"sorry, no multitasking, no desktop applets - the system is already at 100% with doing what it _must_ do anyway"05:35
DocScrutinizer05a warranty for disgruntled customers05:36
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lolgnuDoes N950 run Maemo?13:42
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SpeedEvilit runs harmattan13:55
SpeedEvilwhich is a version of maemo, with at least some commonalities13:56
SpeedEvilbasically same as n913:56
andre__Harmattan is a mix between Maemo and MeeGo. Technically more Maemo though.14:04
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infobotmooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! type apt-get moo.14:45
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo moo14:46
infobotmoo -- created by mgeary <n=mgeary@> at Fri Sep 28 15:18:07 2007 (2074 days); last modified at Thu Apr 18 20:21:06 2013 by cirdan!; it has been requested 270 times, last by DocScrutinizer05, 44s ago.14:46
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: do you actually ever sleep??15:48
inzvi__, he doesn't sleep, he waits15:48
DocScrutinizer05or select()15:48
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Wizzupepoll()? :D16:00
inzepoll() ftw16:00
inzor actually epoll_wait()16:00
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DocScrutinizer05dang, spam attack d-day16:40
DocScrutinizer05I hope the whiteheads soon track down and nuke this friggin new spambot network, and the guys with the black helicopers shoot the idiots running it16:42
DocScrutinizer05and sb is raping wiki VM16:43
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GeneralAntillesDear council, you should use a meetingbot.16:51
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Win7MacCan somebody put the banner on please:
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Win7Macor who do I have to contact for that?16:58
GeneralAntillesBack in the day, you could've filled an enhancement request. :D16:58
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, are the website bugzilla components pointing to the right owners?16:59
GeneralAntillesOr is bmo just completely down these days?16:59
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Win7Macbugzilla.m.o loads for ages, then "connection reset"17:04
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Win7Macso who can I ask to put the banner on m.o please?17:12
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: which meetingbot? and who's going to provide, maintain, and *use* it?17:22
GeneralAntillesDoesn't Stskeeps have one operational?17:23
GeneralAntilleschem|st will use it, being chair and all.17:23
DocScrutinizer05stskeeps is not exactly helping maemo anymore17:23
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: I might look into it. We have no dedicated maintainer for that domain/topic17:24
DocScrutinizer05(bugs.m.o) works here17:25
DocScrutinizer05not exactly lightning fast but it seems wiki VM is getting raped by sth recently17:25
Win7Macbugs.m.o works here too. sorry, tried bugzilla.m.o17:26
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: (website bugzilla components) no idea. I tried to sort that out, but failed to understand how bugzilla assigns owners to components17:27
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, I think I can remember how to get that worked out if somebody wants to provide me with a list of component owners.17:28
Win7MacWoody14619, please let us know here when karma is supposed to work again17:30
DocScrutinizer05what's so important about karma? btw as long as wiki fails to list contributions per user, I think karma _cannot_ work17:31
Win7Macwhy not?17:32
vi__we should abolish karma along with TMO thanks.17:32
DocScrutinizer05isn't that obvious?17:32
DocScrutinizer05karma calculation based in parts on contributions to wiki17:33
DocScrutinizer05so when wiki can't list those, how is karma supposed to work?17:33
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Win7MacIt would be nice if it just worked, so everybody can check in order of the upcoming election17:34
DocScrutinizer05I know of a lot of things nice to have ;-)17:34
Win7Machow is it supposed? no idea - woody just said it might work by today17:34
DocScrutinizer05probably he missed a few details then17:35
DocScrutinizer05or *I* missed sth17:36
GeneralAntillesMWKN should publish in about 24 minutes.17:36
GeneralAntillesHOPE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY TYPOS17:36
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: karma is no solely generated from wiki so if at least some krama calc works again it is better than nothing...17:36
Win7Macthanks GeneralAntilles17:37
chem|stGeneralAntilles: I do not have a meetingbot at hand17:37
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: karma always provided *some* values. Alas worthless since it's not what it used to be17:38
Win7Macchem|st, thanks for putting the banner on tmo, could you do the same on mo?17:38
DocScrutinizer05no he can't17:39
DocScrutinizer05since he has no admin permissions there17:39
chem|stWin7Mac: and again... I am no admin of m.o I am talkmaster only17:39
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Win7Macok, then I hope you find the time for it17:39
DocScrutinizer05I'm just busy with checking bugzilla.m.o, wiki.m.o, and karma ;-P17:41
DocScrutinizer05while doing chats on IRC in ~8 chan17:41
Win7Macwell, first things first...17:41
DocScrutinizer05point me to a locations where I can read what to do17:41
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: it's been you who put all four topics on my todo list17:42
Win7MacI'm honored... ;-)17:42
DocScrutinizer05who decided to put a banner on m.o? where's that documented? who decided _which_ banner to put there? where's that banner? where shall it get placed to?17:44
DocScrutinizer05and why do we need karma for that?17:44
DocScrutinizer05does karma work now or not?17:45
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DocScrutinizer05do I need to talk to woody about that?17:45
DocScrutinizer05and why the HECK is today international spam day?17:45
DocScrutinizer05I already tagged 30some spams today that made it to my visible accounts17:46
DocScrutinizer05for sure 10 times more than usually17:47
Win7MacIf you can, put it on above "Get involved" right hand side or in the news below "Downloads for Maemo5". where's that documented? - no idea17:48
DocScrutinizer05and where the heck are all those paypal and normal bank account donations of 10€, 20€ that I need to fill into a spreadsheet and comment on them. Where are the invoices of skeiron, where the other invoices?17:48
DocScrutinizer05"all those" ~= 4, but anyway I need to spot them in last 7 months of banks account balances17:49
GeneralAntillesSomebody should take up the task of updating the various about/informational copy on maemo.org17:50
Win7Macactually karma is not updated yet. You can always check my prfile: As long as it says 3 you know its not working yet17:50
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: huh?17:50
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GeneralAntillesThe About page, for instance.17:51
DocScrutinizer05great! now I know nothing changed in karma17:51
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: The Intro page, for instance.17:51
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: I can't make a workingpoint/ticket from that sparse info17:51
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: URL, diff, please!17:52
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, yeah, that sounds suspiciously like me volunteering.17:53
GeneralAntillesI'll look at it.17:53
DocScrutinizer05ok, thanks17:53
DocScrutinizer05spam #3917:54
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DocScrutinizer05honestly, why doesn't spamassassin or kmail allow simple definition of a filter ($mail.header.charset()=="kyrillian")?17:55
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: honestly, why doesn't spamassassin or kmail allow simple definition of a filter ($mail.subject.charset()=="kyrillian")?17:56
Win7Macthe spam is coming in where? from different IPs?18:00
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DocScrutinizer05where: council for example. IP: you never know for sure18:01
DocScrutinizer05I stoped analyzing SPAM headers long ago18:02
DocScrutinizer05doesn't help for anything, except if you feel like needing a headache18:02
Win7MacI suspect all the kyrillian spam comes from same IP so you could filter that18:03
DocScrutinizer05I usually don't need, I already _got_ a headache from other stuff18:03
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DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: good luck! - though, you gave me an idea how to filter for Cyrillic subjects18:11
vi__wtf is going on in turkey?18:11
vi__DocScrutinizer05: Just ban the whole sybnet.18:12
DocScrutinizer05eh? and next subject sure is exactly same, right?18:12
DocScrutinizer05ooh subnet, which subnet?18:12
vi__whatever one the spam is coming from.18:13
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vi__just ban *.ru18:14
DocScrutinizer05vi__: yeah, that sounds more like it18:14
vi__In fact, ban anywhere east of Bulgaria.18:14
Win7Macyou got a wildcard for * or why even gets forwarded?18:15
Win7Macwildcard is not exactly good regarding spam18:17
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DocScrutinizer05next spam18:34
DocScrutinizer05damn you kmail, of course I can't search/filter for raw encoding in subject18:36
DocScrutinizer05like "=?Windows-1251"18:36
DocScrutinizer05might need grep to do that for kmail :-S18:37
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sixwheeledbeastmmm, spam sandwiches :)19:42
PaliDocScrutinizer05: you can filter by Content-Type header where is also encoding19:46
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: while this might be generally true, it alas doesn't apply for spam19:53
DocScrutinizer05Subject: =?Windows-1251?B?x+D56PJhIO/w4OIgY2/hY/Li5e3t7vHy6A==?=19:54
DocScrutinizer05ooh, right, this one _has_ Content-Type: text/html;  charset=windows-125119:55
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DocScrutinizer05but... "<subject> [matches regex] '.*[ае].*'"20:02
DocScrutinizer05I should set up a looong list of such "sucject matches regex" filter rules20:03
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DocScrutinizer05"moments of" "intimate" "pleas.*"20:05
DocScrutinizer05but I had hoped for spamassassin doing such filtering for me20:09
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DocScrutinizer05maybe even better:  "<subject> [does not match regex] '.*[aeioustrnl].*'"20:14
sixwheeledbeastI know there may not be anybody that can help but there is clearly an autobuilder/repo issue with this package
sixwheeledbeastUpdates do not show and the package event section is bonkers!20:16
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sixwheeledbeastSurely the above issue is putting excessive load on infra.20:28
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Win7MacDocScrutinizer05, for placing the banner, found some info on Updating m.o sites:
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DocScrutinizer05wow, outdated but great. thanks a lot22:25
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: please share URLs or whatever22:25
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Woody14619Win7Mac, Sorry, the weekend did not go as planned, so karma is still busted.  But I think I have a good lead on how to fix it.  Just need the time to do it.23:10
zammyon smscon the mailserver part23:10
zammywhich shall I enter23:10
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zammyoutgoing server or ingoingù'23:10
Win7MacWoody14619, thanks for the update. Hope you can fix it anytime soon before nomination period ends23:14
Woody14619I'm hopefull, but can't guarrantee it right now.  Too many RL things that could pull me away that are frankly more important.  Worst case, you can compute your own.  The wiki has a page describing the computation.  The only parts missing are wiki edits, brainstorms, and "itt"(tmp) posts/thanks.  Those stats you can get from your profile info on the respective services pretty easily.23:16
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Win7MacWoody14619, comprehend the RL things. it would just be nice to have, not really important though. Thanks anyway. Oh and let us know in case a BoD meeting finally happens.23:39
Win7MacGA renew his self-nomination, prolly you do the same just to be on the safe side. Up for some other nominations besides yourself? All the best!23:39
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GeneralAntillesWin7Mac, why don't you nominate? ;)23:51
Win7Macthere's more talented guys around I hope23:52
GeneralAntillesNot enough, so far. :)23:53
Win7Macit just started23:53
Win7Macwe need a banner on every *.m.o startpage23:54
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