IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-05-30

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DocScrutinizer05please elaborate with proper irc protocol on what happened. When I once set up the throttling, I used arbitrary made up values. Those might well need some tuning00:03
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DocScrutinizer05I've been asked to start a mini fundraiser here, to ensure our "official backup server"00:10
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raid__what's the difference between the BFS kernel and KernelPower?01:47
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DocScrutinizer05the Brain Fuck Scheduler01:50
DocScrutinizer05not recommended01:51
DocScrutinizer05on fremantle the scheduler never been the bottleneck, so why mess with it?01:52
Win7MacThere is something strange about the Community-links in right menu on tmo. Mouse-over and resulting page not as ecpected it seems.01:52
raid__DocScrutinizer05: thanks. so i guess i'll stick with kernelpower then01:52
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I have classic light theme, no links on right side01:53
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raid__i remember my emmc getting corrupted when i used kernelpower before01:54
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raid__not sure if it was the kernel, or using 'Mass Storage Mode' on a partially charged battery01:55
raid__probably the ladder01:55
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Win7MacDocScruitinizer, check on regular browser01:57
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DocScrutinizer05the theme is same no matter which browser02:01
DocScrutinizer05raid__: KP shouldn't affect emmc02:02
Win7Macok, who do I have to contact tor such things?02:02
DocScrutinizer05chem|st, maintainer of tmo02:02
Win7Macchem|st: ^^^^02:03
raid__i've been trying to secure access to root, so i tried sudser and it gives me an error: "sudoers file: syntax error, line 25" "/etc/sudoers.d/everybody.sudoers changes break sudoers"02:04
raid__it gives me that when installing kernel-power02:04
raid__i think it's originating in dpkg02:04
DocScrutinizer05sudser is bad02:04
raid__i used to use rootsh, but it doesn't ask for a password to gain root02:05
keriojust make your file in sudoers.d02:05
DocScrutinizer05sudser doesn't either02:05
infobotjrtools is probably
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DocScrutinizer05on how to enable password02:05
raid__i do i secure root?02:05
raid__oh thanks02:05
DocScrutinizer05NB it's still not safe02:06
kerioyour jrtools are also bad, they break `sudo gainroot` semantics02:06
DocScrutinizer05but a lot better than without02:06
kerionamely, the fact that it doesn't ask for a password, and it doesn't work outside of rdmode02:06
kerioin maemo fremantle, the above is true02:07
DocScrutinizer05sure when I make sudo gainroot ask for password, then it breaks the semantics of not asking for password! o.O02:07
DocScrutinizer05and the second half of your statement makes no sense at all02:07
keriogainroot checks for rdmode, and only gives you a root shell if it's enabled02:08
DocScrutinizer05gainroot also checks sudoers02:09
DocScrutinizer05that's why sudo gainroot02:09
keriono it doesn't02:09
keriogainroot is a script02:09
keriosudo checks sudoers02:09
DocScrutinizer05meh, I got no time for that pointless BS02:09
DocScrutinizer05let's discuss why you write your nick the wrong way02:10
keriowhat's the right way?02:10
r00t^homeit looks like my second n900 broke... to me it seems like some heavy filesystem corruption... at first only modest kept crashing, apparantly beacuse it's database was corrupted... then random settings got reset, tracker was broken (media player said no files), the "three dots" bootscreen didn't appear (but it still booted), now it stopped booting completely...02:10
kerioreflash it, and restore a backup02:11
r00t^homewell, the first one also stopped booting but i can't reflash it because usb is broken02:11
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r00t^homeand in this case, it could still be that the flash is physically broken... we'll see...02:11
raid__DocScrutinizer05: you have to install CSSU to secure root?02:11
keriodo you have a way to boot from usd?02:11
DocScrutinizer05raid__: no02:12
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r00t^homefun stuff: i've been trying to get a working recovery boot recently (before it broke), but it seems that all installation instructions i found for that are outdated02:12
raid__DocScrutinizer05: oh...i have to flash my phone?02:13
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DocScrutinizer05you install rootsh and follow that oneliner instruction on jrtools02:13
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DocScrutinizer05# fix NOPASSWD for root / sudo gainroot02:14
DocScrutinizer05around half way down the page02:15
raid__DocScrutinizer05: we are talking about the same wiki right?
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DocScrutinizer05you install rootsh, open a terminal, type02:15
DocScrutinizer05sed -e "s/Defaults env_reset/Defaults env_reset\nDefaults targetpw/;\02:16
DocScrutinizer05 s+user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot+user ALL =\02:16
DocScrutinizer05 PASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot+" \02:16
DocScrutinizer05 -i  /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo02:16
DocScrutinizer05that's it02:16
DocScrutinizer05you damn better set a root password before02:17
DocScrutinizer05# fix NOPASSWD for root / sudo gainroot02:18
DocScrutinizer05# this will allow your N900 to ask for ROOT password on "root"02:18
DocScrutinizer05# and "sudo gainroot" as it's supposed to be02:18
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DocScrutinizer05or you use nano or whatever editor you prefer, and add the one line02:20
DocScrutinizer05Defaults targetpw02:20
DocScrutinizer05manually, as well as the edit from02:20
DocScrutinizer05user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot02:20
DocScrutinizer05user ALL = PASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot02:20
DocScrutinizer05in /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo02:21
DocScrutinizer05if you don't add the >>Defaults targetpw<< line, then it will ask for *user's* password which makes no sense02:22
raid__sorry, something just came up. let me deal with it02:26
DocScrutinizer05afk for a beer, bbl02:26
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raid__i see this is your setup script02:49
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raid__DocScrutinizer05: it works, thanks!02:57
raid__i guess i better finally try out CSSU02:57
raid__and try your config02:57
raid__i have some setup steps i perform on flash that you might be interested in02:58
raid__they include rebinding the keyboard keys02:58
raid__and that's mostly it02:59
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raid__it should be okay for it to ask for the user password. it's supposed to keep out other people and unauthorized programs, and neither have your user password03:14
robbiethe1stJust have it ask for your SSN randomly.03:14
robbiethe1stand see if people notice03:14
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r00t^homeso i reflashed the rootfs and got the device to boot again...03:31
r00t^homeand after mounting home via usb-storage, fun like:03:32
r00t^home[12658.089730] EXT3-fs error (device sdb2): ext3_lookup: deleted inode referenced: 8208703:32
r00t^home[12658.097831] EXT3-fs error (device sdb2): ext3_lookup: deleted inode referenced: 8206303:32
r00t^homei did not see any fs errors in dmesg on the device... are they disabled or something?03:32
r00t^homefsck => many screens full of errors03:34
robbiethe1stthe homefs seems to get corrupted once in a while during crashes03:37
r00t^homewhat is the root password for ?03:39
robbiethe1stI'm pretty sure I never set it03:39
robbiethe1stso what ever comes default on the devic03:39
r00t^homethen what's the use of the serial/ssh console option...03:39
r00t^homeif you can't log in...03:40
raid__What happened to git? I used to have a procedure to install it on the n900, but that doesn't work anymore.03:44
r00t^homei'm copying emmc to usd via usb storage now... great efficiency there ;)03:45
r00t^homeraid__: the "procedure" being? "apt-get install git"?03:45
raid__no, i installed it from source03:46
raid__with special options03:46
raid__apt-get install git doesn't work right03:47
raid__but now it won't let me install libcurl3-dev03:50
r00t^home"won't let"?03:50
raid__that's what i said...03:50
raid__installing it was part of the procedure03:50
r00t^home"won't let" is a pretty useless statement in the context of software problems03:51
raid__it's a dependency issue03:51
raid__i'll have to track it down later03:51
r00t^homeunless the program's output literally is "i won't let you do that"03:51
raid__i have to be somewhere in 40 minutes03:52
raid__heh, sometimes it is in the world of linux03:52
r00t^homei don't think so03:52
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to test the ABSOLUT10003:52
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raid__there is room for improvement in the linux error messages03:53
r00t^homei was about to make a joke asking if that's a brand of vodka... but it really is...03:53
raid__arguably a lot of room03:54
DocScrutinizer05indeed it is the vodka I bought 3 days ago03:54
r00t^homebut it seems that 100 is not the percentage of alcohol content...03:54
DocScrutinizer05no, the proof, which is % * 203:54
raid__it's the percent of satisfaction guarantee03:54
DocScrutinizer05so 100 proof is 50%03:54
r00t^homei read a different definition of "proof" a while back, but whatever03:55
DocScrutinizer05yeah whatever, it has 50%03:55
raid__it was probably from a linux error message03:55
r00t^home(mixing rate with water where it still allows gunpowder to ignite... wikipedia...)03:55
DocScrutinizer05~wiki poorf03:55
infobotI couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves:
DocScrutinizer05~wiki proof03:56
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{wiktionary|proof}} 'Proof' may refer to: * Proof (truth), argument or sufficient evidence for the truth of a proposition * Formal proof * Mathematical proof, a convincing demonstration that some mathematical statement is necessarily true * Proof theory, a branch of mathematical logic that represents proofs as formal mathematical objects * Alcohol proof, a measure of an alcoholic ...03:56
r00t^home"The term was originally used in the United Kingdom and was defined as 7/4 times the alcohol by volume (ABV). The UK now uses the ABV standard instead of alcohol proof. In the United States, alcoholic proof is defined as twice the percentage of ABV.03:56
DocScrutinizer05~wiki alcohol proof03:56
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Alcohol proof' is a measure of how much alcohol (ethanol) is contained in an alcoholic beverage. The term was originally used in the United Kingdom and was defined as 7/4 times the alcohol by volume (ABV). The UK now uses the ABV standard instead of alcohol proof. In the United States, alcoholic proof is defined as twice the percentage of ABV. The measurement of alcohol content ...03:57
r00t^home"To ensure that the rum had not been watered down, it was "proved" by dousing gunpowder with it and then testing to see if the gunpowder would ignite. If it did not, then the rum contained too much water and was considered to be "under proof". Gunpowder would not burn in rum that contained less than approximately 57.15% ABV. Therefore, rum that contained this percentage of alcohol was defined to have "100° (one hundred degrees) proof".03:57
DocScrutinizer05In the United States, alcoholic proof is defined as twice the percentage of ABV03:57
DocScrutinizer05100 proof = 50%03:58
r00t^homeyou're not in the united states, your argument is invalid03:58
DocScrutinizer05oh, i'm notß03:58
r00t^homei'm not, your argument is invalid03:58
* DocScrutinizer05 fetches the final ultimate argument from freezer03:59
DocScrutinizer05probably 50% doesn't even freeze in *my* freezer04:00
r00t^homewouldn't the "ultimate argument" be pure ethanol?04:00
r00t^homei was about to ask about that04:00
DocScrutinizer05the usual 41% does04:00
DocScrutinizer05ouch, that's a cold bottle04:01
r00t^homei have a bottle of pure ethanol around... but i don't drink that stuff in any (measurable) concentration04:01
robbiethe1stWell, take that freezer, replace the gas with propane, whack off the temperature control and /freeze/ that sucker!04:01
DocScrutinizer05that's a propane fridge04:02
robbiethe1stI guess it is... but propane fridges usually burn propane to evaporate amonia, not use it for compression/expansion04:03
DocScrutinizer05we're not allowed to use flour chloride hydrocarbon anymore04:03
robbiethe1st(which will give you -40F at least)04:03
robbiethe1stNone of em? Not even R134A?04:03
r00t^homeflour would be an interesting working fluid for a freezer ;)04:03
robbiethe1stso you guys use propane as a working fluid then?04:04
DocScrutinizer05small ice spice... ONE04:04
robbiethe1stThey refuse to let us americans use it04:04
DocScrutinizer05and a tad oily04:04
robbiethe1st(it's too cheap, for one)04:04
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: yep04:05
DocScrutinizer05*cough* strong stuff04:05
DocScrutinizer05but still tasty04:06
DocScrutinizer05hehe the black bottle turns white04:06
robbiethe1st(I'll point out - I added some extra propane to my aging R-12 AC system in my truck, and it went from barely cooling to easily /freezing/.04:06
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robbiethe1st(truck's 25 years old, so...)04:07
DocScrutinizer05watch out for the seals04:07
DocScrutinizer05and system pressure04:07
raid__ok bbl04:07
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DocScrutinizer05raid__: seeya04:08
robbiethe1stYeah, I checked.04:09
robbiethe1stIt's been holding pressure for about a year now, and nothings failed yet, so...04:09
DocScrutinizer05sounds good04:09
DocScrutinizer05I once had a car they changed to R134A04:10
robbiethe1stdidn't cool very well>04:10
DocScrutinizer05the shit been, you had to refill every 6 months04:10
robbiethe1stI looked at converting, but in order to do so I'd have had to drain my system, and then get new r134a etc. Like a $200 process. On the other hand, a $10 ebay hose and $.05 worth of commodity propane from a barbecue bottle...04:11
DocScrutinizer05yeah, ammonia fridges. cool shit04:11
robbiethe1stAmmonia fridges are cool, yes04:12
DocScrutinizer05the hotter it is, the better they work04:12
DocScrutinizer05and can operate from candle04:12
robbiethe1stThe hotter the whole loop is, or the hotter the flame is?04:12
DocScrutinizer05my dad told me the hotter the weather, the better those *huge* absorber fridges that cooled the morgue in hospital work04:13
DocScrutinizer05and he's been an enginieer (surprise surprise)04:14
DocScrutinizer05not exactly fridge engineer04:15
DocScrutinizer05but responsible for all technical stuff in our town04:16
DocScrutinizer05maybe it has sth04:17
* ShadowJK wonders what kind of coolant his '99 toyota would have04:18
ShadowJKand if they'd put something crappier in it if I had the AC serviced04:18
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DocScrutinizer0599? probably already one of the excempt FCKW04:22
DocScrutinizer05FKW, fluoride hydrocarbon04:23
DocScrutinizer05I wonder what's the US TLA for FCKW04:24
DocScrutinizer05F Cl C H04:24
ShadowJKdo they refull with original or what04:24
DocScrutinizer05no, not anymore (except in Poland ;-P)04:25
DocScrutinizer05FClCH are forbidden worldwide. Nobody except some rogue chinese produce it anymore04:26
DocScrutinizer05not even in fire extinguishers you may use it anymore04:27
ShadowJKguess i'll just wait for it to not work anymore04:29
r00t^home => CFC, or Hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs)04:30
DocScrutinizer05Chlorofluorocarbon /CFC/04:31
r00t^homewell, that's without the hydrogen, so HCFCs would be closer04:32
robbiethe1stwait, 99... probably R134A.04:32
robbiethe1stwhich you can get in the US, it's the 'favorite' refridgerant... probably because a big chemical company has patent control over it04:33
DocScrutinizer05again yep04:33
DocScrutinizer05while it's as nasty as any other hcfc04:33
robbiethe1stAs soon as that patent is about to expire, R134A will be found to be the most nasty thing on the planet and banned04:34
robbiethe1stJust like R12 was04:34
* robbiethe1st is cynical, I guess04:34
DocScrutinizer05no, just the truth04:35
robbiethe1stIt's frigging sad and annoying04:35
robbiethe1stoh well04:35
DocScrutinizer05and unlike the old HCFCs I heard it's prducing HF (acid) when car burns04:35
robbiethe1stOh, probably.04:36
DocScrutinizer05which takes your face and runs, if you're still in the car04:36
DocScrutinizer05nad kills your lung for good04:37
robbiethe1stInstead of propane/butane , which burns cleanly, has a narrow flammability range, and is an excellent coolant04:37
robbiethe1stbut is too cheap and isn't patentable04:37
DocScrutinizer05a few car manufs changed to propane already, for the safety04:40
DocScrutinizer05I think mercedes/daimler did04:40
robbiethe1stGood for them04:41
DocScrutinizer05coszs 50 bucks more04:41
DocScrutinizer05dunno why04:41
DocScrutinizer05or general system pressure04:42
DocScrutinizer05ohshit, dis warning on www04:43
DocScrutinizer05disk (space)04:43
r00t^homeum... now flasher-3.5 won't talk to my device anymore... (yes, i'm plugging in usb with 'u' held down...) it just says "NOLO version 1.4.14" "Version of 'sw-release': <no version>" "Booting device into flash mode." .. but then the phone reboots normally04:44
DocScrutinizer05low bat04:44
r00t^homeum... now flasher-3.5 won't talk to my device anymore... (yes, i'm plugging in usb with 'u' held down...) it just says "NOLO version 1.4.14" "Version of 'sw-release': <no version>" "Booting device into flash mode." .. but then the phone reboots normally04:45
r00t^hometried two other batteries, same result...04:46
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DocScrutinizer05CAL problem04:48
DocScrutinizer05coldflash might help04:49
DocScrutinizer05but I recommend till sb less tired ahd a look at it04:49
DocScrutinizer05s/till/to wait till/04:50
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: but I recommend to wait till sb less tired ahd a look at it04:50
r00t^homeis that behaviour really caused by the battery being low?04:51
r00t^homei guess i'll leave it charging for a while and see if that makes the battery controller happy04:51
DocScrutinizer05we added 10GB to www, lasted almost a month04:51
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r00t^home(getting erratic battery status display is no surprise when switching batteries all the time)04:52
DocScrutinizer05forget it. a borked system won't charge04:52
raid__i'm installing iptables. i hope it works04:52
DocScrutinizer05and refusal to flash due to low bat is based on voltage only, no impact from swapping04:53
r00t^homeit does boot up fine... just that the image i flashed last pulls a watchdog reboot(?) shortly after reaching the desktop04:53
r00t^homei need to re-flash the broken /home04:53
DocScrutinizer05sorry, too late here04:54
r00t^homeyeah, 4am here too04:54
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raid__where do you store your root bin files so as not to lose them? /usr/bin is the standard location, but you could lose them there04:55
r00t^homedefine "lose"? under what condition? re-flashing or what?04:56
raid__well, that, and you could just forget you made them04:56
raid__or what you called them04:57
r00t^homeso you want a special directory for your custom binaries?04:57
raid__i already do, but i'm not sure it's the best practice04:58
raid__where do you put yours04:58
r00t^homeusr/local/bin would be more appropriate, but iirc it didn't already exist, so probably isn't in $PATH either04:59
raid__if you put them in /usr/bin how do you back them up05:00
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r00t^homei just lost then when i had to re-flash05:00
r00t^homei was working on setting up backups, but fs corruption was faster05:01
raid__can i interest you in a custom bin directory, lol05:01
infobotit has been said that backupmenu is
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DocScrutinizer05and /usr/local/* FTW05:04
r00t^homei had a perfectly working backupmenu on my old n900 that broke completely... but haven't managed to get that back since, because every single document on installing it seems to be outdated05:04
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raid__the problem i have with /usr/local/bin, is some programs install themselves there, especially when compiled from source05:05
DocScrutinizer05and ~/bin for thwe totally exotic stuff05:05
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raid__that's where i put my user scripts, but not sure if i should put root scrips there05:05
DocScrutinizer05installing bm?05:06
DocScrutinizer05use HAM05:06
r00t^homeDocScrutinizer05: the cold flashing seems to be working05:06
r00t^homeraid__: programs installing in usr/local when built from source - is the whole point of the thing!05:10
raid__sort of. it's purpose has been changed since it first became an official path05:13
r00t^homeusr/local = stuff not from distro... makes sense, no?05:14
raid__that's what it's used for now, but that doesn't help me. i don't want to back up third party software that i can just download later05:15
r00t^homedownload and compile05:15
raid__i need a place for my squishy scripts that are easily lost forever05:15
robbiethe1stMaemo Wiki!05:15
raid__robbiethe1st: good answer!05:16
raid__unfortunately, they're not all worth publishing online05:16
raid__too proprietary05:16
raid__~/bin is probably the best place05:18
infobot...but /bin is already something else...05:18
raid__i'll just have to make sure i set permissions05:19
raid__hmm, the iptables rules i use on my desktop aren't working on the n90005:23
raid__they're blocking everything05:24
raid__iptables --policy INPUT DROP05:24
raid__iptables --policy FORWARD DROP05:24
r00t^homebut loaded without errors? and don't make assumptions about network device names/networks?05:24
raid__iptables --policy OUTPUT ACCEPT05:24
raid__iptables --append INPUT --match state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED --jump ACCEPT05:24
raid__iptables --append INPUT --jump REJECT05:24
raid__iptables --append FORWARD --jump REJECT05:25
raid__yeah, it just blocks all traffic05:25
raid__can't visit webpages or download with apt-get05:25
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LouisDKHi. how would you consider using n810 as an internet tablet today? what do you think about the pda?05:43
robbiethe1stN900's far better05:50
robbiethe1stIt's a nice device, if slow05:50
robbiethe1stN810 and older just aren't up to snuff05:50
GI_JackI have a hard time using the n900 as an internet tablet05:50
robbiethe1stscreen size?05:51
GI_Jacklack of CPU oomph05:51
GI_Jackflash 9.1 no gnash05:51
robbiethe1stN810 is far slower05:51
GI_Jackwon't run modern version of fennec05:51
robbiethe1stI'd go with a Nexus 7, and bluetooth keyboard.05:51
GI_Jackthere is a flash 10.1 port but its unsuably slow05:51
GI_JackI'm getting the new Jolla mobile phone when it comes out if I have to kill someone05:52
robbiethe1stThey've got these cool keyboards which have a angle slot so you can have it open like a laptop, or fold it shut clamshell style05:52
GI_Jackthe n900 is showing its age, its UI is sluggish, apps take too long to load05:52
GI_Jackits clumbsy05:52
GI_Jackthe accelerometer plain old sucks05:52
robbiethe1stUse CSSU, OC it to 1ghz...05:53
robbiethe1stsome tweaks you can do to seriously improve it05:53
GI_JackI do use the CSSU05:53
GI_Jackmy n900 is my daily phone, I don't overclock because I need it to hang on and probably can't easily replace it05:53
GI_JackI've brought it back from the dead 3 times already05:53
GI_Jackwith the infamous "all telephony connections are disabled error"05:54
GI_Jackwith a mix of stainless steel springs cut carefuly to specific heights, super glue and liquid rubber05:54
robbiethe1stYou can buy em cheap05:54
GI_Jackthe phone gets hot enough as is, I don't really how much more juice your going to squeeze by OC05:55
GI_Jackexcept reduce the service life, I have no idea what kind of thermal profile the case and cooling is rated for05:55
GI_Jackeven if that CPU has been clocked as high as 1.1 GHz in other solutions05:56
robbiethe1stI've clocked mine to 950mhz, and it'll not get too hot even when maxed out for over an hour05:57
robbiethe1stat 1ghz, mine starts feeling way too hot if maxed out05:57
robbiethe1stI've run mine for over a year now at 125/900mhz, hasn't fried yet. This is my second device, though - first has USB fall out and I couldn't fix it05:58
GI_Jackand every CPU is diffrent because of flaws in the silicone, all we know is that they all passed QA at 600mhz05:58
GI_Jackothers in the batch passed higher, and we know the design is capable05:58
robbiethe1stthat one ran for over a ear OC'd at the same. voltages adjusted to make it stable on both05:58
GI_Jackbut we also know that a 600MHz CPU could have easily failed 800MHz, been clocked down, passed QA and shipped with a 600mhz label05:59
GI_Jackthis is routinely done industry05:59
robbiethe1stYes, but typically, it's failed 800mhz at some voltage05:59
robbiethe1stgive it a little more juice and it'll easily pass it05:59
GI_Jackmore juice is more heat05:59
GI_Jackwhat margin of saftey does the n900 have, I'm not chancing it, cause it needs to be a cell phone first06:00
robbiethe1stAnd less life, yes.06:00
Luke-JrNITs are pretty much obsolete; sadly, there's nothing better than N900 :/06:00
GI_Jackrobbiethe1st, have you gotten flash 10.1 to work06:00
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robbiethe1stIf it's /hot/ to the touch, you might want to back off06:00
GI_JackI'm not talking about install, but actually work, like load youtube and play06:00
Luke-JrGI_Jack: if you want a cell phone, you don't want a NIT06:00
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GI_JackLuke-Jr, no, I want an n900 with modern specs06:01
robbiethe1stGI_Jack, I use the stock flash with a hack that makes it look like a later version06:01
Luke-JrGI_Jack: N900 is not a phone, and will disappoint you if you want a phone06:01
robbiethe1stworks smoothly and plays youtube at minimum quality06:01
Luke-JrI am not aware of a single person who wanted a phone, bought N900, and liked it.06:01
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GI_JackLuke-Jr, actually no, other than its weight, and thickness its actually a pretty good phone06:01
GI_Jackthe voice quality is great, and text messaging is slick06:02
GI_Jackfrals did a good enough job with mms06:02
Luke-JrOk, I guess you're the single person exception, if you're actually using it as a phone :/06:02
GI_Jackyes, actually using it as a phone, and it makes a passing grade mp3 player06:03
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GI_JackI'm just wondering if the community could get together and make a LGPL or BSD licensed opus/flac/ogg hardware codec and get everyone to start using it in all handhelds that work as music players06:03
GI_Jacksame with a twofish/serpet/AES SHA/MD6 crypto chip06:04
GI_Jackand you can instant message and VOIP just as easily as txt/cell call06:05
GI_Jackwhich is really nice, and there is a libpurple backend06:05
GI_Jackmedia player could have been a little better, but it syncs with rhythmbox without pulling TOO many teeth, and plays music06:06
LouisDKanybody who knows where I can find a broken N900 not so expensive?06:09
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robbiethe1stWhat sort of broken are you looking for?06:22
LouisDKrobbiethe1st: well. remembering my spare parts I don't have enough to put together a working n900, so I don't think I need a broken N900 anyway.06:27
robbiethe1stI've got a spare lying around, I bought cheap - works, broken usb and cell modem doesn't.06:29
LouisDKahh okay. mine have broken usb too and the screen cable is also damaged :/ I'm thinking of buying a used one just as a toy.06:30
robbiethe1stCable, $1506:33
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robbiethe1stwith a set of small screw drivers, not hard to install06:33
LouisDKthx, i'll look at it.06:35
robbiethe1stI replaced a screen on mine, the hard part there was getting the new screen in without dust06:36
robbiethe1stcable's behind the screen though, so even easier06:36
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LouisDKokay. looks good :)06:47
LouisDKthanl you.06:48
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vi__I am thinking of switching back to Symbian.  Please convince me otherwise.12:13
vi__Because as a phone, the n900 sucks a mile long dick.12:15
vi__I am so sick of missing phone calls.12:15
vi__Because the caller screen does not see fit to even appear.12:15
Luke-Jrof course. N900 isn't a phone.12:16
Luke-Jralthough I've never missed a call ringing on it unless I was out of range12:16
jogaI've had only minor problems using it as a phone, the most prominent one being hildon-home etc getting 'stuck' so that every time you unlock the screen it takes a good few seconds to stop hogging cpu and you can do something, killing it every now and then helps but it's irritating if it happens when a call comes in, the ringtone will play but there's nothing you can do until it's ready12:17
jogaand once it happened when I was expecting UPS to deliver a package, I couldn't answer the damn call (from unknown number, of course) so delivery was delayed by a week12:18
divVerentfor me the n900 works ok as phone12:24
divVerentonly reason I ever missed calls was vibration not strong enough12:24
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vi__That is a good example.  On many occasions I have not even had a notification of an incoming call.  Just a yellow ballon telling me I missed a call.  FFS WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT.12:26
* jooles was of the opinion that whatever issues maemo has, Symbian 6 was worse :/12:28
vi__I never missed a telephone call on symbian.12:30
jogamaybe the caller ended the call before n900 had managed to start playing ringtone12:34
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jogabut anyway I think for telephone use an old and durable nokia works just great, personally I use the n900 as a mobile terminal and calls/sms constitute just a tiny percentage of my use so it has worked fine in that respect12:35
joolesBring back the 3310, eh? :)12:36
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jogaI actually dumpster dived an E70 from work, I could get a new smartphone if I just asked but for work I need just reliable calls and stuff so it works great and also has a qwerty so in case n900 battery runs out or something I can use it for ssh in a pinch12:37
joga(after getting used to n900 keyboard the e70 feels a bit spongy and weird, also some symbols are more tedious to type)12:38
jogaheh, actually the bag I dived had about 35 or so phones of which 20+ worked after just replacing battery, there were also a few 3310s :)12:39
jogaall the old phones that hadn't been physically mangled worked, there were a few newer ones like e63 and some other slider-qwerty model and a similar one without the keyboard, they all turned on but didn't display anything on screen12:41
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jogawas a shame because the e63 was in mint condition otherwise12:42
joolesHave you tried re-flashing it?12:42
joganah, I suspect it's a problem with the display and haven't bothered to look, I don't really need the phone myself :)12:43
jogathere were also some working spare batteries so I emptied a few of the basic phones that were working and gave them to people who had use for one12:44
jogawould be nice to get it working though, it's a bit more attractive than the 10 year old ones12:44
joolesWhat are the insides like? Any obvious damage/activated water indicators?12:45
jogaI haven't opened it since it seemed like I would probably cause cosmetic damage doing so, from outside it seems perfectly fine12:46
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joolesThat's what makes me wonder if it's water damage though. The indicators are usually in the battery compartment and/or on the battery12:48
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jogawell I checked inside it and it seems really clean, no signs of damage in battery connectors or battery12:57
jogamaybe I'll pop the hood12:58
joolesDid you find the water indicator?13:01
jogathe what?13:04
jogawhat does it look like? :)13:04
joolesShould be a little white sticker on or near the battery13:05
joolesIf it's white, that's good. If there's been water in there it will have gone red13:06
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jogahmm...there's just the biggish sticker with IMEI etc and the battery itself has a hologram, I don't find any discolored regions at least13:07
joganot sure if the battery is original13:07
joolesIt would be a little white square or circle.13:08
jogaunless it's under the info sticker, I can't find it13:08
jogano red visible anywhere though13:09
joolesEh, it may have been on the original battery. It's just always the first thing I check with a phone whose history I don't know13:17
jogaI opened it up now, but haven't noticed anything suspicious yet13:23
jogaaww the vibration motor is so tiny13:25
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, I never had problems with answering phonecalls on N900, except of accidentally hitting reject button once, when friggin rotation bounced back and forth13:45
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: oh, I do remember another phone call issue with the N90013:47
divVerentthe phone appo has weird rotation13:47
divVerentand sometimes the meaning of the volume buttons reverses when I am "holding it wrong"13:47
divVerentas it sometimes toggles orientation during the call, and this reverses the volume buttons13:47
DocScrutinizer05I get massive problems though with inbound SIP calls since I usually am (loccked) on 2G and that, while still establishing call, yields unbearable stutter and delay and dropouts13:48
vi__I have it locked to landscape.  It fails to even display the screen.13:48
jogaI put the phone back together, it just seems to start (backlights turn on, a single vibration occurs) then after waiting a while the backlight turns off briefly, then back on, I assume it's just booting but can't see anything13:48
vi__Do not even get me started on SIP.13:48
vi__For a SIP device, the n900 is a colossial piece of shit.13:48
vi__SIP is nicely integrated but the audio is so choppy it is basically worthless.13:49
jogahmm, actually if I wait for longer it seems the backlight turns on every now and then so not sure if it finished booting properly..13:49
DocScrutinizer05meh, I always had dialer app locked to portrait13:49
DocScrutinizer05usually works just fine13:49
DocScrutinizer05SIP works excellent when I'm at home on my WLAN13:50
DocScrutinizer05you just have to wait 2s after establishing call, until audio streams properly set up13:50
vi__Then you are the ONLY reported case I have EVER read of SIP working.13:50
DocScrutinizer05hey, I even did SIP phonecalls with N810 from Taipei via my account (and RTP<->POTS gateway) to other german landline and mobile numbers. Worked great, as long as the intercontinental sea cables were not broken or congested (a frequently encountered problem in Taiwan)13:54
DocScrutinizer05I at times have 5 SIP clients logged in here to same account: N810, 2*N900, N950, N9 (and sometimes even twinklephone softphone on PC). And all of them just work, once I allocated a dedicated SIP port do each of them and pinholed that port the router's NAT13:58
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DocScrutinizer05many router NATs have a ALG that's more often than not broken and not really working. You should check if your router has an option to disable SIP-ALG (sometimes attributed as VoIP support). draytek-Vigor for example (old ones) neeted telnet to do that: sth like "set system alg off"14:02
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DocScrutinizer05then make sure your SIP provider supports auto-STUN, or you force STUN to enabled and keepalive to REGISTER,6014:05
vi__I have auto stun on.  It is still choppy and completely un-useable.14:06
vi__Don't even get me started on how bad skype is.14:07
DocScrutinizer05host -t SRV _stun._udp.sipgate.de14:08
DocScrutinizer05if your SIP provider is lacking such SRV DNS record, auto-STUN will fail14:09
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DocScrutinizer05if your router has symmetric NAT and doesn't allow local loopback (client in LAN talking to itself on the router's public IP) then STUNlib fails to detect the type of NAT14:12
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DocScrutinizer05but all that is rather irrelevant for RTP quality14:13
DocScrutinizer05one thing you could try that also helps for RTP sometimes is to set your SIP client device as exposed host, sometimes also (incorrectly) called DMZ14:15
Macervi__: really? i don't have much of a problem with skype heh14:16
DocScrutinizer05means *every* inbound connection gets directly forwarded to the exposed device14:16
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DocScrutinizer05be aware that this does what name implies: it exposes your N900 to the internet, with all the pings and ssh bruteforce pw cracking and whatnot14:17
DocScrutinizer05so you better make sure you don't have too sloppy config of your services14:18
Maceris there even any real active telepathy skype dev?14:18
Maceri know gtalk video chatting no longer works14:18
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vi__Macer: for me skype just plain fucking sucks.14:20
Macervi__: ah i see. i don't really use skype on my n90014:21
Maceri have cordless phones14:21
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Macerwith the vonagelike hub that connects to the router14:21
Maceri only use skype as a "home" number14:21
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vi__Mrs vi__ tried to skype her mother with the n900.  The n900 was worthless.  You could barely hear the other person there was soo much choppiness.  So she switched to her android tablet.  Perfect call.14:22
Macerbut i can honestly say it hasn't let me down heh... seems to work well as far as i know14:22
Maceri'm sure beceause both the n900 and telepathy are old :)14:22
Macerthat's usually what happens on abandonware heh14:22
DocScrutinizer05vi__: I suspect your WLAN AP being POS14:22
MacerDocScrutinizer05: i don't. i had teh same problems skyping on my n900 and that was like 2 years ago14:23
vi__Really?  WNR3500L running dd-wrt.14:23
DocScrutinizer05either your local router and connection (WLAN) stuff sucks, or your IP does nasty stuf with QoS traffic shaping/priorization14:25
Macervi__: skype sells the mtx based phones which are similar to vonage phones.. which are usually work with older GE cordless phones14:25
Macerthose are the best ones to use if you're just using skype for voice calls14:25
MacerDocScrutinizer05: why can't it be that skype changed the method in which it initiates and xfers the data and maybe the telepathy plugin for the n900 is just ancient and undeveloped?14:26
DocScrutinizer05because others have no problems14:27
Macerplus if his wife used a tablet with a perfect call which most likely uses wifi...?14:27
Macerhow would that be the AP?14:27
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DocScrutinizer05AP not supporting the PSM that N900 uses14:27
DocScrutinizer05or rather: not *well* supporting14:28
Macerthe easy solution to test that would be to test it over wireless14:28
DocScrutinizer05there is about half a dozen of PSM modes and sub-types in use14:28
jooles__Is it still possible to get the Maemo 4 SDK and/or scratchbox?14:29
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DocScrutinizer05Jooles: should14:29
infobotmethinks tabletsdev is, or
Macerspeaking of maemo4 i need to flash my n81014:30
Maceri found a microsd to minisd adapter! i couldn't believe it14:30
Macerit was at the bottom of a drawer14:30
DocScrutinizer05maybe some links point to still, then you need to do a bit of handcrufting the destination URL14:30
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DocScrutinizer05Jooles: if you can't find stuff, come back here and holler14:32
JoolesDocScrutinizer05 those links are perfect, thanks14:33
JoolesYeah, converting the old links is what I needed14:33
DocScrutinizer05the auth (where you have to type your IMEI or device serial number) might be 'broken' redirecting you to nokia.com14:33
Joolesthe links on are still the old ones14:34
DocScrutinizer05sure, told you we probably missed several links to edit14:34
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DocScrutinizer05the data on should be complete. Some files might be a little tricky to get hold of though, via URL14:35
DocScrutinizer05(the m.o/tabletsdev content been stage for akamai server farm under
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to get a dedicated VM and move the tabletsdev/* stuff from repo to that machine. Thus users should be able to fix complete mess by adding "<IP-of-new-VM>" to their /etc/hosts14:41
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reenignEesreveRis it possible to connect gsm module of n900 with asterisk ?14:42
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Jooleshmm.. that's a pain. All the scratchbox stuff is i386 only. Any idea where the VMWare image is?14:55
Joolesnvm, found it :)14:56
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DocScrutinizer05Jooles: for your convenience:  :-D15:47
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, tabletsdev is, or
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0515:48
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JoolesUgh, still can't get hold of the VMware image. The licence agreement page keeps taking me back to and adding ?agree=I accept to the URL isn't helping15:55
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DocScrutinizer05you're sure it still doesn't work?15:59
DocScrutinizer05we juszt fixed a few minor details of the internet at large X-P16:00
DocScrutinizer05 works for me16:00
JoolesWell the list of files shows up, but if I try and download a file I get a "Corrupted content error" in the browser16:00
DocScrutinizer05mometype issue?16:01
DocScrutinizer05it opens in kwrite here16:01
JoolesOh yeah. Elinks opens it fine. It's just firefox16:02
DocScrutinizer05indeed it's garbled HTML16:02
DocScrutinizer05I guess the .txt extension isn't exactly helping for a html page16:03
JoolesNo, wait. Elinks is in a loop16:03
JoolesDownload list <--> license agreement16:03
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JoolesAt least for the text file. The images download ok16:04
Jooleser... VMware images, not graphics images. Text mode browser and all :P16:04
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DocScrutinizer05I btw got thrown back to licence agreement on above link (of course) and it didn't render on konqueror as a html page despite content clearly *is* html16:07
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JoolesSeeing as I can't check the text files, I assume the Intrepid image is the Maemo 4 SDK and the Lucid images are Maemo 5?16:09
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DocScrutinizer05err, that's about the firmware, not the SDK16:16
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no idea right now. I'm a tad distracted right now, so can't check directly on the tabletsdev/* dir to spot the text you asked for16:18
DocScrutinizer05Jooles: giving URLs of anything you want to access and of the page that holds the defunct link, that would for sure help16:19
JoolesNo worries. Just unzipped the image and it's in there too. Thanks anyway though16:20
DocScrutinizer05we try to fix stuff, so any report welcome16:21
DocScrutinizer05WLAN: 001D6ED5A54416:22
DocScrutinizer05Jooles: pointing your techstaff team to any page that has dangling links or other issues will help a lot, to allow us fixing it16:23
Joolesmy techstaff team?16:23
DocScrutinizer05sure, we're your techstaff team, the team that keep running16:24
JoolesOh, snazzy :)16:24
JoolesBasically I'm trying to get a dev environment set up so I can start helping out with the CSSU development16:24
DocScrutinizer05so, for fremantle?16:25
DocScrutinizer05or diablo?16:25
JoolesI've only got an N81016:25
DocScrutinizer05oooh, THAT cssu16:25
JoolesThough if I ever get an N900 I've nothing against fremantle :)16:25
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if a single devel still is involved in diablo cssu16:26
JoolesI assume there's a good reason why fremantle won't work on the 81016:27
JoolesOr is it just that no one has made it work yet?16:27
JoolesYeah, I've seen that page16:27
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DocScrutinizer05fremantle using more cpu grunt and more other hw resurces, and the whole layout around booting differs significantly (diablo used initrd, fremantle doesn't)16:28
DocScrutinizer05*might* still be possible to backport fremantle to N810, but for sure it's a lot of work16:29
DocScrutinizer05stskeeps should be THE guy to ask about the implications in such effort16:29
vi__Jooles: get an n900.  They are at the bottom of the price curve right now.16:30
DocScrutinizer05a N900 with broken cmt (which almost equals a N810 then) should be available for significantly < 100 bucks16:31
DocScrutinizer05used working ones in good condition are ~15016:31
vi__Much less than that doc.16:32
vi__More like 70-90euro in the UK.16:33
DocScrutinizer05anyway, Jooles, I invited warfare to join here, despite his busy job, to have a look at dangling links and broken pages in tabletsdev first hand. If you could and want to help on that issue, please do right away. Warfare doesn't have the time to follow chat on #maemo that is "OT" from his perspective16:33
DocScrutinizer05warfare: great job! incredible! many thanks!16:34
DocScrutinizer05:-) \o/16:34
DocScrutinizer05yeah I know it been again just me pestering you to do it ;-)16:35
ShadowJKN810 GPU is kinda more or less "very hard" to bend into usable state for fremantle type opengl es16:35
JoolesHardware limitation or lack of good drivers?16:37
ShadowJKIt starts with the original issue that N810 SoC isn't capable of 800x480 output :)16:37
JoolesThat... seems like a poor decision with an 800x480 screen16:37
vi__rofl, no shit.16:38
warfareDocScrutinizer05: :)16:39
ShadowJKIt was more or less all top of the line stuff when designed :)16:39
* Jooles is surrounded on all sides by annoying hardware :P16:40
ShadowJKand cpu overclocked to 400 MHz :)16:40
ShadowJKin stock config16:40
ShadowJKN800 came with the same SoC/cpu running at 333 MHz, but the kernel didn't become stable with overclock to 400 until after N810 came out16:41
ShadowJK(and software update boosted N800 to 400 too)16:42
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DocScrutinizer05N810 also had a SSU OC16:44
DocScrutinizer05initially ran at 333 or sth16:44
JoolesThe thing is, it's still a nice tablet. Just feels a bit... held back16:46
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DocScrutinizer05Jooles: can you share any URLs that need checking, on tabletsdev and related?16:55
DocScrutinizer05otherwise we'll stop on that task for now, and nobody knows when we have the opportubity to look into it again16:56
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DocScrutinizer05then not16:56
joolesSomeone said my name?16:57
joolesOh, there it is16:57
joolesDocScrutinizer05, sure. Just fighting with a Verifone device at the moment16:57
* jooles is at work16:57
DocScrutinizer05please highlight warfare on any findings you have to report16:58
DocScrutinizer05he's the guy who made all this awesome new stuff happen some 60 min ago16:58
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DocScrutinizer05well, "new"16:59
DocScrutinizer05o/ afk16:59
jooleswill do17:00
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joolesN900s might be cheap at the moment, but they're still too much money for me anytime soon. Will have to continue trying to breath new life into the N81017:50
ShadowJKa big ram in microsd formfactor would do wonders17:52
joolesI have an 8GB Micro SD in the slot17:53
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joolesMight have to get some tiny torx keys to take a look inside at some point17:54
ShadowJKI do mean RAM, not flash :)18:03
ShadowJKif such a device would exist18:03
joolesmy bad. And I doubt it. Though I guess it's not impossible18:03
ShadowJKI find many modern websites consume all the RAM on the N800/N810 all on their own18:04
ShadowJKswap on a microsd-ram should help somewhat :)18:04
ShadowJKOn that note, A-data super highspeed microsdhc (or was it ultafast) did wonders for my N800 when I put swap on that card18:06
ShadowJK(the card was advertised as having "high" IOPS)18:06
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b-r-a-i-nhi guys18:10
b-r-a-i-ncan some1 post his hildon-application-manager.list ?18:10
b-r-a-i-nthanks. and please /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list18:13
DocScrutinizer05deb fremantle free non-free18:14
DocScrutinizer05deb ./18:14
DocScrutinizer05deb ./18:14
DocScrutinizer05deb fremantle-1.3 free non-free18:14
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DocScrutinizer05I however might wonder if you maybe are looking for /usr/share/hildon-application-manager/catalogues/* or even sth completely different instead of that list18:26
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vi__ShadowJK: what is the latest word on high iop cards18:29
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vi__you were testing a bunch.18:29
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* DocScrutinizer05 thinks b-r-a-i-n was rather interested in /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues18:31
b-r-a-i-nno. i just trying to clean up configs.18:31
b-r-a-i-nupdating through apt-get18:32
DocScrutinizer05go edit them via HAM18:32
DocScrutinizer05and watch your edits in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list getting overwritten, afaik18:32
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b-r-a-i-nlong time not been on whats up with migration?18:34
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DocScrutinizer05finished, and left us with a huge POS that's broken on every second thing you look at18:41
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b-r-a-i-nthats mean community development also nearly dead.sad18:49
DocScrutinizer05I don't know why you say that18:54
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b-r-a-i-nnearly dead ~= dead.. at least for now18:59
ShadowJKvi__; samsung pro microsdhc, sandisk extreme pro, a-data ultra high speed18:59
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freemangordonvi__: wait, what? you miss incomming calls on n900? what did you do to the poor lady man :(19:23
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raid__n900 tar doesn't work for bz2?19:38
raid__the -j option isn't supported19:38
raid__apt-get install tar wants to remove 300+ other programs19:39
r00t^homeis the author or 'multiboot' around so i can punch him in the face for his useless error messages?19:39
thedead1440raid__: that's probably because its part of busybox or binutils which are dependencies of the mp-fremantle package hence leading to other packages being removed too19:41
raid__i'm sure19:42
thedead1440you may want to do an apt-get install -d tar; extract the tar file and replace it directly however afaik the system tar does work with bz219:43
thedead1440are you using CSSU?19:43
thedead1440oh then i'm not too sure; stock firmware probably may have that issue.19:44
r00t^home<raid__> the -j option isn't supported19:44
raid__tar: invalid option -- j19:44
raid__BusyBox v1.10.219:44
r00t^homeyou can always bzcat | tar x19:44
r00t^homeno need for tar to support it directly19:44
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r00t^homeall tar does if 'j' ('z') is specified, is fork off bzip2 -c/-d (or gzip) and pipe the data through it19:46
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raid__my virtual keyboard isn't working, now19:47
raid__can't insert pipe character...19:47
freemangordonraid__: blue arrow->sym19:48
raid__i found virtual keyboard was turned off, but i just turned it on and still no good19:49
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raid__it was probably the bash install19:51
raid__r00t^home: thanks, it worked19:53
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ecc3ggnu tar is getting too many options for each compressor, whatever happened to "do one, do well" ... (then again the original tar supported compress...)20:16
WizzupIs there an easy / sane way to use alarmd? (that is, set some commands with bash)20:18
Wizzupraid__: you can install gnu-tar iirc20:19
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raid__Wizzup: not without removing core packages, but i just used bzcat20:28
raid__has anyone got git working?20:29
raid__the one in the repos seems to not support HTTPS urls20:29
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raid__apparently there is another git in the repos called git-core20:34
raid__that one fails by 'fatal: HTTP request failed'20:35
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raid__hold on it's probably my command20:36
raid__you've got to be kidding me20:37
raid__i hate to say it, but i think i might have to retire my phone in a few paychecks20:39
raid__it just doesn't work like it used to20:39
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raid__idk, maybe i can fix it20:45
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ApicDoes NitDroid support GPS?20:50
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raid__finally got a fully working google authenticator for the n90020:52
raid__it runs in the cli20:53
raid__but it requires icedtea6 java20:53
raid__i would have eliminated that dependency but i couldn't get help with git20:54
raid__i'll post this in the forums20:54
ecc3g ? python mostly?20:57
ecc3ghmm...even more options linked there.20:58
raid__those don't seem to work for all sites, and they're a bit complicated and buggy20:58
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ecc3gwhy does it need java?  googleism?20:59
dr1fteroriginal language of the code i copied21:00
dr1fteri had some c source, but needed git to clone it21:00
dr1ftergoogle code seems to require git to download source, and the n900 doesn't seem to support git21:01
dr1fterat least not anymore21:02
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dr1fterecc3g: ^21:02
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dr1fterhow do you submit a package to the repository when its source code is java without any makefiles21:10
dr1fterif someone will assist me with that, i'll upload this to the repos21:11
dr1fteri went through the upload instructions on the wiki a long time ago, but i still have some questions21:12
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DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: (alarmd) yes, use alarmed(SIC!)21:13
dr1fteri have other projects i should probably upload as well once i get the hang of it21:13
DocScrutinizer05or alarmclient if you're loving pain21:13
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WizzupDocScrutinizer05: just found it @ alarmed, ty21:16
Wizzupinteresting enough, the package manager didn't want to install it21:16
Wizzupbut apt-get worked fine21:16
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DocScrutinizer05alarmed didn't install in HAM? any details?21:19
WizzupDocScrutinizer05: missing pyside packages21:19
DocScrutinizer05maybe somebody with a clue can have a look into this?21:20
DocScrutinizer05are our repos hosted wrt pyside?21:20
WizzupI'll recheck my sources21:21
DocScrutinizer05hosed* even21:26
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