IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-05-09

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kerioM4rtinK: .pyos aren't really worth it00:04
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M4rtinKkerio: so I'm doing it right :)00:05
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andre__oh awesome, redirects to wiki.maemo.org07:47
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DocScrutinizer05andre__: we had to take it down until somebody applies necessary security patches to bugzilla09:09
DocScrutinizer05I tried to ping you about that 1 or 2 days ago, to inform you directly and ask you about your opinion regarding maintainership for bugzilla. Meanwhile freemangordon has been shanghaied09:13
andre__makes sense09:14
andre__somebody needs to upgrade09:14
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andre__even if you apply all 3.4 patches, there are enough open issues left09:14
andre__as 3.4 is not maintained anymore09:14
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I'm afraid the patch I suggested is not really sufficient09:15
DocScrutinizer05our sysops already made a backup of the wiki/bugs VM, and FMG will tackle it on weekend IIRC09:15
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DocScrutinizer05I hope he will do "the right thing"09:16
DocScrutinizer05but of course you're free to discuss with him what's the correct and sensible way forward09:16
DocScrutinizer05I can't handle every single aspect of every single subsystem's maintenance myself, I need to rely on my maintainers to take good care09:17
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PaliccxCZ: ping11:08
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ccxCZPali: didn't really had time to play with 0xFFFF but at least my /dev/bus/usb problem is magically gone now11:15
PaliccxCZ: ok do you have still some segfauls?11:15
ccxCZlet me check with head11:17
ccxCZor rather, let me boot to new kernel first :-)11:18
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vi__ShadowJK: You compiled gpodder?12:28
vi__Did you notice any improvement in running speed?12:29
Mr_StupidNot bad :)12:34
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ShadowJKvi__; no13:47
ShadowJKvi__; there shoudn't be any speedup, python compiles uncompiled stuff on startup13:48
ShadowJKso it'd only change startup speed?13:49
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vi__lame.  Mrs vi_ has gpodder loaded up with a retarded number of podcasts and complains it is sometimes too slow.14:11
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divVerentHi... I have a bad problem... after a reboot (I know fsck found some inconsistencies) I can no longer enter mobile network. It just does not appear in the list any more.15:47
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divVerentI probably need to delete some gconf file... any idea which?15:47
infobotrumour has it, tabletsdev is
divVerentanyway, is there any way to fix this other than restarting with empty ~ AGAIN?15:55
divVerentissue basically is, the carrier's GPRS connection data is no longer in the internet connections list15:56
divVerentah, issue got "resolved" by rebooting15:59
divVerent#so deleting the gconf files related to IAP/APN/... and rebooting did it... so for next time, which process should I have killed instead? ;)16:00
PaliDocScrutinizer51, merlin1991: bugs on
Pali1. <token-code> link on point to: instead
Pali2. on page is missing random picture, so it is not possible to rewrite verification code16:02
Paliand thus not possible to accept license16:02
Pali3. on buttom link "Terms of Use" points to instead
PaliDocScrutinizer05: look ^^^16:05
DocScrutinizer05already checking16:06
Pali2. is big problem and without it is not possible to add Nokia SDK binaries repository to scratchbox16:06
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DocScrutinizer05o.O on 2.16:12
DocScrutinizer05F U pastebin16:15
DocScrutinizer05ok prepare for spam16:16
DocScrutinizer05<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">16:16
DocScrutinizer05<title>Forwarding to the EULA page</title>16:16
DocScrutinizer05<meta http-equiv="REFRESH" content="0;url=index.php"></HEAD>16:16
DocScrutinizer05If this page is not automatically reloaded please click here: <a href="">EULA</a>16:16
DocScrutinizer05/var/tabletsdev/eula/index.html (END)16:16
DocScrutinizer05tell me what to change16:16
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: please edit
DocScrutinizer05and post to me16:28
DocScrutinizer05is that a turn-around time, eh?16:36
Pali2. problem: it is not possible to accpet license on
DocScrutinizer05could somebody please beat me with a club?16:37
DocScrutinizer05editing friggin html pages on my birthday16:37
Paliimage points to url:
Paliwhich is 500 Internal Server Error16:38
DocScrutinizer05I bet it is16:38
Paliand white screen in browser16:39
DocScrutinizer05please inspect full source code16:39
DocScrutinizer05this is a friggin php generated page. sorry I can't do anything for that16:39
PaliEnter Number: &nbsp;&nbsp;<img src="randomImage.php"></td>16:40
DocScrutinizer05php is beyond me, waaay beyond16:40
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: 3. problem on, it should be only html edit16:41
Palireplace: <center><a href="/legal/terms_of_use.html">Terms of Use</a></center>16:41
Paliwith: <center><a href="legal/terms_of_use.html">Terms of Use</a></center>16:42
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: why is that an html page and not an http 301?16:42
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: wtf, replace X with X?16:52
DocScrutinizer05oooh, / missing16:52
Palirigth, without char '/'16:52
DocScrutinizer05now that's easy16:52
DocScrutinizer05check please!16:52
* DocScrutinizer05 never knew that mc "renders" .html16:54
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DocScrutinizer05on "F3 view"16:54
DocScrutinizer05I missed to save16:54
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ???16:56
DocScrutinizer05I wanna close that friggin file!16:56
PaliDocScrutinizer05: now working fine16:57
DocScrutinizer05meh, looks good to me16:57
DocScrutinizer05so, your last chance to make me do other silly boring stuff while I should get booze and hookers16:58
DocScrutinizer05sidenote: for php edits I will accept sed or patch files only16:59
DocScrutinizer05or, even better, shell script files to source17:00
DocScrutinizer05I *won't* do a diff on to check what been edited before I swap around old and new .php17:00
DocScrutinizer05anyway, too late17:02
DocScrutinizer05afk, bbl, much l17:03
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DocScrutinizer05root@stage:/var/tabletsdev/eula# cat index.html17:21
DocScrutinizer05<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">17:21
DocScrutinizer05<title>Forwarding to the EULA page</title>17:21
DocScrutinizer05<meta http-equiv="REFRESH" content="0;url=index.php"></HEAD>17:21
DocScrutinizer05If this page is not automatically reloaded please click here: <a href="">EULA</a>17:21
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: fix it to
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vi__How do I store a float in a word?17:24
DocScrutinizer05not at all?17:24
vi__rofl, my boss thinks otherwise.17:25
DocScrutinizer05your boss is A GASHEAD17:25
vi__Is that a German insult?17:25
DocScrutinizer05every idiot knows floats are 64bit and words usually 3217:25
vi__I thought a word was 2 bytes.17:26
divVerentand floats are 32bit ;)17:26
divVerentdouble is 64bit :P17:26
DocScrutinizer05well, ok17:26
divVerentbut I know what you meant17:26
divVerentone just doesn't USE the float type normally17:26
divVerentone just always uses double17:26
DocScrutinizer05I already am late with my booze17:26
divVerentso the typical floating point variable is 64bit, and the typical integer is 32bit17:27
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DocScrutinizer05that's what i meant17:27
vi__As the number only ranges from 0.5>1.2 I am thinking store it as an integer without the decimal point.  Then divide it by 10 when I want to use it.17:27
Palidouble is 80bit17:27
divVerentlong double is ;)17:28
Paliah, yes long double :-)17:28
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: that's the right thinking!17:28
Palistack orientated FPU on x86...17:28
DocScrutinizer05avoid real like the plague17:28
divVerentBTW, as for storign a float in a "word" (typically 16bit)...17:29
DocScrutinizer05aka float17:29
divVerentnvidia does this :P17:29
divVerentit is called the "half" type17:29
divVerenta quite inaccurate 16bit floating point type17:29
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divVerentso if you need a 16bit float, maybe use nvidia's version to not bring a SECOND 16bit float to the world17:29
Palix86 has 16bit float too17:29
DocScrutinizer059 bit mantissa, 2 bit signs, 5 bit exponent?17:30
divVerentPali: x86 has it? didn't know... which instructions?17:30
* DocScrutinizer05 joyfully announces the 32bit FRACTIONAL type17:31
divVerentnvidia uses 10bit mantissa, 5bit exponent (no sign, but a shift, as usual), and 1bit sign17:31
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: hm... reminds me of AVRational ;)17:31
divVerentin libav*17:31
DocScrutinizer05with moving "/"17:32
divVerentNOW that is cool17:32
divVerentah, looks like this half precision float is actually standardized17:32
divVerentdidn't know that17:32
DocScrutinizer05from 1/(2^28) to (2^28)/117:32
PalidivVerent, CVT16 instruction sets17:33
DocScrutinizer059 bit mantissa, 2 bit signs, 5 bit exponent?17:33
Palipart of some SSE17:33
DocScrutinizer05wasn't that bad a guess, eh? EH??17:34
vi__There is a special place in the lowest circles of programmers hell for the sins I have committed.17:34
* DocScrutinizer05 claims (C)2013-JR on FRACTIONAL data type17:35
DocScrutinizer05vi__: your previous post sounded muuuuuch better17:36
PalidivVerent, I think that half is part of AVX17:36
PaliDocScrutinizer05, something from IBM support decimal FPU :D17:37
DocScrutinizer05but not FRACTIONAL17:38
DocScrutinizer05(the latter doesn't work on binary, I heard)17:39
DocScrutinizer05the former obviously not in decimal and binary17:40
vi__Well it works.  I guess the take home lesson here is your boss does not care how it is done, just that it is done!17:40
DocScrutinizer05the boss has foolish ideas how stuff should get done17:42
DocScrutinizer05for a n.n (or 9.9, in COBOL) you NEVER use float!17:43
DocScrutinizer05you shift decimal one digit, and use int17:43
DocScrutinizer05[2013-05-09 16:27:53] <vi__> As the number only ranges from 0.5>1.2 I am thinking store it as an integer without the decimal point.  Then divide it by 10 when I want to use it.17:43
DocScrutinizer05if only fsckng qt devels knew17:44
vi__The space on the flash memory was allocated as 2 bytes some years ago.17:45
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vi__TBH I do not understand why.17:45
DocScrutinizer05ummm, so what?17:45
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vi__So I have a file that hard allocates >150 variables on a flash memory.17:46
vi__and I want to make one in the middle bigger.17:46
DocScrutinizer05wnat to make it *bigger*? WHY?17:47
vi__because I cannot store a FP in a word!17:47
DocScrutinizer05nobody ever needs FP17:48
DocScrutinizer05except astronomy17:49
DocScrutinizer05even when you juggle with USA state debit, you still don't want to use float, rather use int64 then17:51
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: Decimal ftw18:29
kerioor Fraction, too18:31
TriztI bricked my N900, a question, is it possible to charge the battery somehow? I don't have much left on it also which PR1.3 should I use, don't seem to be any global versions at skeiron.org18:34
Triztfound it the global version of 1.318:34
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infobotsomebody said combined was the rootfs fiasco image of maemo. For N900 latest (PR1.3.1) see  or
keriosaves you the initial update18:35
kerioand... mmh18:35
kerioone thing you can do is load rescueOS and charge from there, if you must18:35
Trizthow do you do that?18:36
infobotrumour has it, rescue-os is
kerioread the README18:37
kerioi assume your condition is such that you can't boot to charge and you can't flash because of low battery?18:37
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DocScrutinizer05classic deadlock18:43
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DocScrutinizer05rescueOS FTW18:44
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Triztthe led is shining yellow (not blinking) this how it supposed to be when charging the battery?18:55
Triztsorry, din't read to the end18:56
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kerioemergency charge won't charge the battery enough19:13
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Triztso 100% emergency charge is like 20% normal charge or?19:13
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Drathirif i good  think emegrency work to definied amount of battery power, and when charge to that switch to normal charging mode...19:19
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DocScrutinizer05~tell Trizt about flatbatrecover19:30
TriztDocScrutinizer05: tell more, please19:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do we know if nolo will let you /load/ kernel+initrd when the battery is too low?19:31
DocScrutinizer05[2013-05-09 18:30:52] <infobot> told Trizt about flatbatrecover (Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover)19:32
DocScrutinizer05kerio: not yet19:33
DocScrutinizer05still nobody tested it *and* reported19:33
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DocScrutinizer05what works for sure (though only theoretically) was loading a special build of uBoot for "coldflashing" RAM borne 1st stage BL, which would just do charging and nothing else19:37
DocScrutinizer05since there's no such special uBoot, it's a theoretical option only19:37
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TriztHad been nice to be able to chroot it and just rerun the kernel update, then all had been fixed19:41
DocScrutinizer05kerio: however, since when NOLO doesn't even *start* flashing when battery is too low, it has no way to notice you want to ramload instead of flash to NAND19:43
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: so, the question is: will NOLO come up with NOKIA screen **and USB icon**, and stay in flashing mode, when Trizt holds 'u' button during the moment when amber steady LED stops shining and NOLO gets booted? I guess we already know the answer: no, probably not.19:45
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, how hard is to write ARM ASM code for direct access to bq2415x charger via I2C?19:51
DocScrutinizer05not hard19:51
DocScrutinizer05since I2C is a IP block19:51
Paliand what needs to be inlitialized/called if we want to make that asm code as "bootloader"19:52
Paliuboot is big so we cannot load it via colflash :-(19:52
DocScrutinizer05means you write addr of peripheral chip to one register of interface, chip register addr to another, and data to a third19:52
DocScrutinizer05(what needs initialization) well, just about the same stuff as for beagleboard, I guess19:53
DocScrutinizer05or was it pandaboard?19:54
Triztthe flatbat didn't work, started to "reboot" all the time19:55
DocScrutinizer05that's what it does as soon as battery is full enough to actually boot up the CPU19:55
DocScrutinizer05so emergency charging worked like a charm19:55
DocScrutinizer05flatbatrecover is meant for otherwise intact systems19:56
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DocScrutinizer05it won't magically fix your NAND for you19:57
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DocScrutinizer05look, there's a battery level threshold at which the CPU can boot (what we all usually call boot is actually mostly the system init process of linux, *boot* is when cpu starts to execute commands)20:00
DocScrutinizer05when battery is too weak to start up CPU (alias boot), then flatbatrecovery aka emergency hw charging kicks in. eventually battery trips the boot threshold and NOLO bootloader gets executed. It's NOLO which a) stops emergency charging, and b) decides to directly boot into a (possibly messed up & broken) linux to continue charging under sw control, when battery is considered too weak for flashing20:03
DocScrutinizer05when your rootfs is messed up, that sw charging never will happen, and after a few 10s of seconds the latest battery is empty to the level of hard system shutdown, at which point emergency charging kicks in again20:05
DocScrutinizer05---> bootloop20:06
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muellisoftSo I got myself Micro USB ports to solder onto my n900 which has a very loose one. Any hints for me to follow? Things to not forget, to take care of, etc?20:15
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Triztthanks for the explanation Doc, now I have to try to remember how to use dpkg and see if I can't fix it by uninstall ipv6 support and reininstall kernel20:21
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: thats is good to learn bot about bootloop i think clearly explained... thanks for that too helpfull for me a lot...20:21
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infobothmm... usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)20:28
keriomuellisoft: ^20:28
muellisoftwow. thx kerio. Let me save that for later.20:28
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kerioTrizt: hold on, how do you get to a point where you could do that?20:30
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Triztkeiro: rescueOS mount-maemo20:31
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Trizthmm... seems rescueOS changes MAC on the wifi20:31
kerioTrizt: hold on, you can just charge and then reflash20:33
Triztkerio: I rather not reflash as I don't want to fix everything after the flashing, I flash if the reinstall fails20:35
kerioremember to keep /opt/ mounted in your chroot jail20:35
Triztyeah, thanks for the pointer there20:36
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sixwheeledbeastinfobot: ping20:57
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zammybut how to watch youtube on n900?21:00
zammyI tested all youtube clients... mytube cutetube *qml* and zoutube ytube... nothing works21:01
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sixwheeledbeastzammy: cutetube21:02
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zammywell actually I could not install cutetube21:02
zammyidk why21:02
sixwheeledbeasterror information? problems tab output?21:03
zammywait... I am going to seek for more detail21:03
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zammyit slows down a lot during application manager21:06
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zammyalright cutetube 1.4.121:06
zammy11,1 mb downloading21:07
zammyafter downloaded it says Impossible to download 'cuteTube'... app package not found...21:08
sixwheeledbeastrepository issue? as 1.4.1 isn't in the repo's according to package iface.21:09
zammynow I deactivated the extra21:10
zammyon repo21:10
sixwheeledbeastanyway only the latest from devel will work due to youtube changing things every 6 mths.21:10
zammyI was totally wrong21:11
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sixwheeledbeastzammy: 1.7.2 definitely works I have used since it's realise with no issues.21:13
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zammybut now it asks me other packages21:14
zammysuch as libqtm-12 and ffmpeg21:14
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zammycan you suggest me the right way to write the repository on catalogs please?21:15
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sixwheeledbeastasks you to install other packages? how are you installing?21:18
zammyapp manager21:18
zammyshall I use not the default app manager?21:18
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zammydo you mean I shall use faster applications?21:18
zammyoh right21:19
divVerentsame issue ;)21:19
zammyby terminale21:19
divVerentsorry, damn new weechat version ;)21:19
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sixwheeledbeastzammy: click on link with MicroB
zammynow it asks me how shall I use this... saving it on my device or app manager21:23
zammyI choose app manager right'21:23
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zammyyes it's the same I am doing it ever21:25
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zammyall the times I am doing it is the same way21:25
sixwheeledbeastSo you have issue in the problems tab?21:26
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zammyit tells me actually I need  libqtm-12 and ffmpeg21:26
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zammyalright it needed a apt-get install on terminal21:28
sixwheeledbeastodd I would have thought it would pull them automatically.21:30
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zammydon't worry maybe you have installed this packages by other programs21:30
zammyanyway... all fine XD21:30
zammyand thank you sixwheeledbeast21:31
sixwheeledbeastlibqtm-12 probably but not ffmpeg. anyway np. :)21:32
zammypretty cool works... XD21:35
zammyreally cool it uses also keyboard...21:36
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sixwheeledbeastyep I find the search can throw up some odd results. but works well.21:39
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sixwheeledbeastfreemangordon: thumb wiki ok? :)21:43
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kwtmHi, MohammadAG. Do you know what command-line I can use to launch a new terminal window?22:23
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kwtmMohammadAG: Thank you! Can I ask you (or anyone else here) one other question? In what directory do I find the desktop icons? I can't seem to find a clear answer by Google search, and icons (shortcuts and widgets) keep disappearing from my desktop.22:36
kwtmTyping "osso-terminal" doesn't seem to launch the terminal (or anything else) ...22:38
kwtmfound it: osso-xterm22:38
zammyyes osso-xterm....22:39
zammytab button is the way to find out most of things22:39
zammyI presum to find all with tab actually XD22:39
MohammadAGsorry, been a long time since I've used my N900 :(22:39
trxkwtm /usr/share/icons/22:40
MohammadAG/usr/share/applications/hildon/ for the .desktop files22:40
MohammadAGicons can be spread out22:40
zammythe tab tip is a fundamental overall linux matter22:40
MohammadAGfrom what trx said to /usr/share/pixmaps to somewhere in /opt22:40
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zammyand dos too if you think at22:40
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trxyeah, /usr/share/icons/ is in opt22:40
trxas i remember22:41
trxas a symbolic link22:41
kwtmMohammadAG: O no! You haven't used for N900 for a long time?  Does that mean we poor mortals will slowly suffocate to death? Or is there some other scriptable smartphone we can use?22:41
kwtmI even bought a second N900 in case my first one dies, because ... well, with what else can I use vim to make a phone call? :P22:42
zammyMohammadAG, if you are going to learn the most used, or maybe all, command lines to use by a linux OS as maemo is linux OS as well then I suggest you this
kwtmzammy: ?? Why are you telling MohammadAG this?  He doesn't know Linux cmd lines?22:44
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keriohahahahaha amazing22:53
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zammyjust to make it refresh memory I 'd keep really in care that link anyway even if I know some linux cmd lines22:56
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zammyno intention to offense anyone...22:57
zammynot really22:57
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