IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-05-08

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Win7MacWoodyyy... glad you're joining, will we see election results as fast as for referendum?01:28
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Woody14619depends on when my ride shows up. ;)01:32
Win7MacWhat, your ride is more important than this01:33
Win7Mac? ;-)01:34
Win7MacWell, at least you'll keep me from wasting the next 1, 5hours just on waiting... ;-)01:35
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muellihow are the ballots actually counted? With an old version of OpenSTV?01:41
Woody14619Define old? :)01:41
muellioh. wait. There is no STV, right?01:41
* muelli is confused01:41
Woody14619No, it's OpenSTV... 1.6.1 I think01:41
muelliyeah. probably the last free relesae.01:42
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Woody14619We actually sent in the "suggested donation" for it.  Damned if I know where the file went to turn off the "you should donate" cruft though.01:48
Woody14619reguardless... it's findable and testable on your own system.  100% perl, so you can even run it on your N#00 or N9. :)01:49
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XuluLong live Maemo!01:49
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Woody14619.oO(I know, because I did just that the last couple elections to get results before they were official. :)01:50
Woody14619But yeah... last hour or so here people.  If you haven't voted yet, get to it!01:50
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uncloudedwhat's a typical capacity for a N900 battery?  the charge meter chip has measured 1100mAh for mine.  is that really low?01:59
ShadowJKmy original was 1250 when new-ish02:00
ShadowJKThe new nokia bl-5j are over 1400 when new and fresh02:00
uncloudedah, not too far off.  I'm looking at your charger script right now ShadowJK ;)02:00
uncloudedit's very cool but I still need the datasheet open just to work out what's going on02:02
ShadowJKI'm not sure I'd call it cool, as I stopped working on it once it worked for 97% of my own use02:03
uncloudedI would.  it's nicely written and super useful in Debian, which doesn't have bme yet02:04
uncloudedand in fact my bme in Maemo has gone wrong and doesn't charge from a wall charger or a non-charging USB port whereas your script does02:05
ShadowJKdoes it say Wall: 0 ?02:05
ShadowJKthat's suggest data lines are damaged02:05
uncloudedWall: 0 when plugged in to non-charging USB port02:06
uncloudedand with a charging USB port02:06
ShadowJK0 would be expected on generic usb ports02:07
uncloudedand with the wall charger too.  always says 002:07
ShadowJKI wouldn't trust being able to use usb port dor data again then02:09
Win7MacI wouldb't too...02:09
* Win7Mac wonders if it'll be worth waiting another hour for unofficial results?02:09
uncloudedhow can I test that?  when I plug the N900 in to a PC it does create usb0 and ttyACM302:09
uncloudedbut you reckon it might work sometimes and not others, or go wrong in subtle ways only occasionally?02:10
ShadowJKit's possible02:11
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ShadowJKbut then again when I plug in my own chargers too slowly wall charger isn't detected and dialog pops up asking to choose pc suite or mass storage02:12
uncloudednot to worry, the wireless works well02:12
uncloudedso could be flaky firmware in BQ27x00?02:12
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ShadowJKneither bq are involved in that02:14
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uncloudedwhy does the script read from musb_hdrc/charger and then do nothing with the result?02:19
ShadowJKreading it triggers side effects02:22
ShadowJKLike reducing power use by 80mA if you've got a wallcharger plugged in02:23
ShadowJKAlso, reading bq24150 status register had side effects :-)02:23
uncloudedright, so if I want to port to Ruby then I need to preserve all of that behaviour carefully02:24
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ShadowJKIn a "cool" version, it'd also use the result to set input current limit as unlimited02:25
ShadowJKbut then again, that wouldn't work very well with out device and chargers, heh.02:26
ShadowJKlazyness paid off, i guess.02:26
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uncloudedI don't understand "i2cset -m 0xFF ..".  isn't that "-m 0xFF" redundant because it will write all bits?02:44
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ShadowJKalso, the whole idea is a bit silly02:46
ShadowJKbecause some registers have different functionality depending on whether you're reading or writing..02:47
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uncloudedyes, STATUS/CTRL registers?02:47
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eccerr0rtrying to get my battery calibrated, I discharged it down to when it started blinking red, and then suspended it and let passive draw slowly drop it below EDV1 but I just let it discharge to flat... then plugged it in to recharge... it still didn't count as a learning cycle...  is there something special that needs to be done?02:52
ShadowJKthe thing that made it blink red probably switched off the phone02:53
eccerr0ryes probably... but it should have been slow enough to hit EDV1, unless it shuts off the phone before EDV1?02:54
uncloudeddoes u-boot shutdown when the battery is low.  if not, maybe that would be a way to discharge to EDV?02:55
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eccerr0rhave to disable all battery management software to do this relearn cycle I guess?02:56
uncloudedmine seems to discharge completely in Debian but I guess you don't want to install that just to calibrate?02:57
eccerr0rI think my battery I'm using in this phone is pretty crappy now... it is several years old now, internal resistance is pretty bad compared to two other cells I have...02:57
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ShadowJKon stock you'd do "stop bme" and manually "start bme" again in the few seconds between edv1 and phone dying from lack of power (which can probably cause fs corruption)02:58
ShadowJKbut stock doesn't flash red, so..02:58
eccerr0rbased off of the estimated capacity numbers it seems like it still holds 1.1AH or so if discharged slowly...02:58
robbiethe1stWhy not just replace it?02:58
robbiethe1stThey're like $12 for a good knockoff02:59
eccerr0rrunning KP52 + stock BME...02:59
* ShadowJK likes to do calibration at some resonable rate of discharge, so that it's calibrated for capacity when used, not capacity in standby mode ;)02:59
eccerr0rOh I have two much better condition batteries, I just want to milk the rest of the life out of this one.02:59
eccerr0rI figure that the phone will be in standby most of the time for me, it's not like my primary computer :o03:00
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eccerr0r(this battery suffered two years of abuse in a Nokia 5230...but maybe not nearly as much "abuse" as in an n900 that drains it faster...)03:02
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DocScrutinizer05OK guys, you asked for it, here you are: 3 entities, 2 councils :-///03:08
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DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: big fail03:16
Woody14619how so?03:18
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Woody14619well, 4 out of 5? :P03:22
DocScrutinizer05one or two trolls were thinking it's a nice idea to vote different for both elections03:22
DocScrutinizer05or rather, vote for one election only03:23
Win7Mac1 or 2 were enough?03:23
Woody14619well, such is life. :P03:23
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and me losing interest in all this also is life03:23
Win7Mac*1 or 2*???03:24
DocScrutinizer05anyway, thanks for voting to everybody03:25
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Woody14619win7mac actually, like 6 or 7.  but, yes...03:25
DocScrutinizer05results are here for everybody to watch and muse:
Woody14619there were delats in the sub votes too. :P03:26
Woody14619k... well.. there you have it. :)  off for a bit to eat & what not.03:28
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Woody14619congrats to all 6 new council...  4+1 & 4+1. :)03:35
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DocScrutinizer05I started this whole thing to unify both councils into one. I'm not going to attend two councils for 6 months, and I'm not going to adjust what I promised to what this friggin 2 fools made of that election. Either I find a way to unify the both councils or i'll step down03:41
DocScrutinizer05we can live with two councils for a few weeks maybe03:42
DocScrutinizer05but I don't like to have two council meeting, two council meeting minutes, and discussions^2 with BoD for the next 6 months03:43
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DocScrutinizer05I can't do that, physically03:43
fmunozsthere are just two different persons, isn't it possible to have them both on the council?03:44
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DocScrutinizer05there's no rule to have unelected members on either of both councils03:46
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DocScrutinizer05and there's no rule that allows 6 MCC members either03:46
DocScrutinizer05there is a way to unify both bodies, but that has to get discussed non-public03:47
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DocScrutinizer05and that won't happen today, it's late in europe03:49
DocScrutinizer05also, as already said, we don't need to unify noth entities tonight, but we shouldn't wait til next election is near03:50
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: also, as already said, we don't need to unify both entities tonight, but we shouldn't wait til next election is near03:51
DocScrutinizer05anyway, welcome on board merlin1991 chem|st qwazix thedead1440 sixwheeledbeast03:53
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DocScrutinizer05since there seem to be ambiguities, I haven't said I'd step back right away! No way! I say I can't sustain running in 2 councils for extended periods of time04:08
DocScrutinizer05but your council wasn't your council if we hadn't thought about a plan B already. We will find a way to handle that as well, I'm rather sure about that04:09
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shawnjeffersonOn election results: the huge amount of votes you got, joerg, is an indication of the community's appreciation of the work you are doing.05:07
shawnjeffersontoo bad about the differing results, but this probably wasn't the best way to address this issue-but worth a shot I guess.05:08
DocScrutinizer05shawnjefferson: rhanks a lot :-)05:09
DocScrutinizer05thanks even05:09
DocScrutinizer05alas it was the only way05:10
shawnjeffersonwhy not a referendum?  Cut and dry, easy for both users and BoD and MCC to interpret.  You won't get a small minority screwing things up either.05:10
DocScrutinizer05thanks to a certain person in HiFo05:10
DocScrutinizer05a referendum is a tool of MCC, which has no saying about any HiFo related things incl HFC05:11
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DocScrutinizer05I been well aware of a possibility that a minority screws up stuff for everybody, which is not a true democratic spirit in that procedure05:12
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DocScrutinizer05but, as mentioned above, it been the only possible way05:12
DocScrutinizer05except for HiFo BoD accepting/appointing MCC as HFC05:13
DocScrutinizer05the we would have had a unified HFC/MCC *before* elections, and everything fine05:13
DocScrutinizer05but one person in HiFo wasn't happy with that approach05:14
shawnjeffersonshould have been, but I'm aware of the issues with that board member even if I dont understand him at all.05:15
DocScrutinizer05welcome to the club! ;-D05:16
DocScrutinizer05we're a really huge club already05:17
shawnjeffersonI'm sure we'll get it sorted out somehow.05:19
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DocScrutinizer05not really a problem, 4/5 of both bodies are identical05:20
DocScrutinizer05as I said above, we anticipated exactly such issue and have a plan b for that05:21
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DocScrutinizer05it's however bad style and not politically correct to discuss this plan b publicly05:22
DocScrutinizer05for obvious reasons05:23
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shawnjeffersongood luck!05:27
DocScrutinizer05thanks! :-)05:27
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*** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | | Source: | Chanlog: | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet"06:13
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: now you at least have some tiny new bits for retroactive updating of
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uncloudedShadowJK, is the sense resistor for the charger different than the one for the charge meter?08:12
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: get sixwheeledbeast and thedead1440 to drop, maybe?09:19
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ShadowJKunclouded; yes12:22
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ShadowJKunclouded; bq27200 has two 10-ish mohm sense resistors in series, of which one is shared with cellmo iirc.. bq24150 has a 68mR-ish sense resistor12:24
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freemangordonPali: i don't know if you are aware, but u-boot in extras-devel repo is broken. for some reason apt-get wants to install the older version, not the new one :(12:44
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Palifreemangordon: run: apt-cache policy u-boot-flasher12:56
freemangordonPali: already did it, it is the older version listed12:56
freemangordonapt-get update does not fix it12:56
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Palinew version is missing?12:57
Palido you have extras-devel enabled?12:57
Palireally DEB package is not there:
freemangordonit is there12:58
freemangordoni wget and installed it12:58
Paliah, is there12:58
Paliold version is not there12:58
freemangordonbut apt wants to install the older version12:58
Paliand what is output of apt-cache policy?12:58
uncloudedcheers ShadowJK.  the 68 ohm value makes sense with the V(charge) and V(term) values in the comments but not with $CR?  ( which is 132, not 68)12:58
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ShadowJKoh, CR is something else, it represents losses between charger chip and the battery13:00
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ShadowJKI only use it for estimating system power use during the CV phase of charging13:00
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uncloudedaha.  thanks for explaining that.  now other comments in the script become clear to me13:01
ShadowJKThe RS (bq27200 sense) I've varied between 20 and 21 on my devices, CR between 128 and 132 on my various devices13:01
ShadowJKThe CR thing in practice, on the device, doesn't behave entirely ohmic13:06
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vi__good morning.13:20
DocScrutinizer05the whole thing behaves rather erratic at times13:21
vi__Can someone tell me what the dickens has happened to libpcre3?13:21
vi__It is not in extras, testing, devel.13:21
vi__But it was before.13:21
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DocScrutinizer05it is not in repo, or not in packages.gz?13:22
vi__I am not sure.13:22
vi__Kismet depnds on it.13:22
vi__Kismet USED to install just fine.13:22
vi__Now it complains there is no libpcre313:22
vi__apt-cache search agress, there is no libpcre3 in any repo.13:23
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vi__ kismet: Depends: libpcre3 (>= 6.7-1osso1+r1) but it is not installable13:24
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vi__kerio: ping13:27
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: What do you get if you run 'apt-cache search libpcre3'13:34
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# apt-cache search libpcre313:47
DocScrutinizer05libpcre3 - Perl 5 Compatible Regular Expression Library - runtime files13:47
DocScrutinizer05vi__: which repo *exactly* do you use? where it should find this lib?13:48
DocScrutinizer05  Installed: 6.7-1osso1+r113:49
DocScrutinizer05  Candidate: 6.7-1osso1+r113:49
DocScrutinizer05and PRETTY PLEASE somebody FIX this friggin apt-cache to print full repo spec incl full pathname, not inly host part of URL!13:50
vi__I have:13:50
vi__deb fremantle free non-free13:50
vi__deb fremantle free non-free13:50
vi__deb fremantle free non-free13:50
DocScrutinizer05vi__: I don't need your complete apt config ;-)13:51
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: what repo do you have that I do not?13:51
DocScrutinizer05that's probably irrelevant since I most likely changed them 20 times since that lib got installed13:52
infobotsomebody said #maemo pkg was
vi__but if it is in your apt-cache, that means it is in your available package list?13:52
DocScrutinizer05or in my cache13:53
DocScrutinizer05 *** 6.7-1osso1+r1 013:53
DocScrutinizer05        500 ./ Packages13:53
DocScrutinizer05        500 ./ Packages13:53
DocScrutinizer05and PRETTY PLEASE somebody FIX this friggin apt-cache to print full repo spec incl full pathname, not inly host part of URL!13:53
DocScrutinizer05can't be more than max 2 src lines to patch13:54
DocScrutinizer05probably rather just comment out some filtering13:54
DocScrutinizer05though HAH,
DocScrutinizer05guess what, I think you're doomed ;-)13:55
Mr_StupidI've requested an invitation to upload into extras-devel wednesday last week and still can't upload, does it usually take that long?13:55
DocScrutinizer05*usually* not13:56
DocScrutinizer05but we had very little "usually" since migration#213:56
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: ^^^13:56
Mr_StupidShould i request the invitation again?13:56
DocScrutinizer05won't help13:56
DocScrutinizer05either it ends again in /dev/null or the guy responsible is still not responsive13:57
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: are you the guy who's not responsive? ;-D13:57
DocScrutinizer05I think merlin told he can approve garage project or accounts or whatever13:58
DocScrutinizer05dunno if he also gets the relevant mail regarding that13:58
Mr_Stupidk, thx13:58
DocScrutinizer05we might need to fix a postfix alias13:58
DocScrutinizer05best advice: stay tuned here, pester merlin1991 and me once a day13:59
DocScrutinizer052nd best adbice: if best advice fails, send a mail to techstaff at m.o13:59
vi__DocScrutinizer05: Thankyou.  libpcre3 installed.14:00
DocScrutinizer05where from you pulled it?14:00
* vi__ hands doc a steaming cup of black coffee and an ice cold beer for later.14:00
infobotit has been said that tabletsdev is
infobotmethinks skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources:
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DocScrutinizer05even OOOOOH fremantle_ssu_pr1-2 OOOOOH14:03
DocScrutinizer05cya all14:04
* DocScrutinizer05 grabs the coffee and the beer14:04
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: I only get mails for garage projects, nothing for extras upload rights17:41
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Woody14619and... my brain just exploded.    WebGL compiler compiles C/C++ into asm.js for use in HTML5 browsers..... <*BAM*>
Woody14619freemangordon  Ready to compile maemo-thumb into HTML5?  :)  ^^^20:24
freemangordonWoody14619: actually alopex(embedlite for fremantle) kinda supports webgl ;). though there are some nit to be fixed20:27
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PaliM4rtinK: ping21:03
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: are you going to resign from one of the two councils?21:06
kerioyou were joking, right21:06
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DocScrutinizer05I'm not going to resign from either, since in 4 weeks they are one21:07
DocScrutinizer05otherwise I'll probably resign from both21:07
DocScrutinizer05since then workload for each single one of them will be higher than for the unified one21:08
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: there are ways to handle stuff when all are unanimously pushing into one direction21:09
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esaym153nokia x2 a good phone? I need something cheap with good battery life (and I like nokia). I see a bunch of them on ebay for cheap...21:51
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M4rtinKPali: pong22:35
PaliM4rtinK, why is modrana compiling on device and not on autobuilder?22:35
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M4rtinKPali: because I was not able to make autobuilder do that22:36
Paliah, so because autobuilder :D22:36
Palithen ok22:36
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M4rtinKI tried some directives that should do that - python-support something DH something22:37
Paliyou can try to play with sbox redirect22:37
M4rtinKbut it didn't do anything :)22:37
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PaliI do not know exact env name22:37
Palibut there is something which tell sbox to do not use binaries which comes with sbox22:38
M4rtinKwell I could also just ship the bytecode22:38
M4rtinKmodRana works just fine with only pyc files on Android :)22:39
M4rtinKthe issue would be where to get Python 2.5 these days to do the compilation :)22:39
M4rtinKso the current solution, while making the install phase a bit longer, is IMHO more robust int the end22:40
M4rtinKas 1) you use the same Python as the same Python to compile & run the code 2) you just need to make a simple source package without additional magic :)22:42
Palican you precompile pyc files in local scratchbox?22:42
M4rtinKyeah, that could work22:43
PaliI think that including it source dsc package is better then compiling on device22:43
M4rtinKBTW, what is the policy ?22:44
M4rtinKship only pyc or both py & pyc ?22:44
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Paliin dsc source package should be full source code22:44
M4rtinKwell, shouldn't be that much bigger22:45
Paliand in binary deb package something "executable"22:45
PaliI do not know policy of python, but if you do not expect that somebody want to edit python files on device you can ship only pyc files in DEB package...22:46
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M4rtinKoh, yeah, good point ! :)22:50
ShadowJKgpodder does .py only22:51
M4rtinKI've actually already told people a few times to hack the source until a fix is released for an issue :)22:51
ShadowJKpyc only would lose that :)22:52
M4rtinKShadowJK: well, I haven't checked the how much faster it is22:53
M4rtinKbut there should be some startup speed bonus22:53
M4rtinKand every speedup counts on the N900 :)22:53
ShadowJKI compiled gpodder on my n900 and didn't notice any boost in startup22:53
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M4rtinKwell, modRana has a built-in startup benchmark I can run :)22:56
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ShadowJKWell I use "time" and counted cpu time to open and close22:57
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eccerr0rhmm...why does gpodder take so long to start up... searching the whole machine for podcasts?22:57
ShadowJKNo it has a database for that22:57
eccerr0rabout 10 seconds, not way too bad I guess.22:59
eccerr0rit does have 24MB RSS... ouch.22:59
n900-dk_How many existing member(s) in HCC are still in HCC?23:01
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infobotn900-dk_ meant: How many existing member(s) in HFC are still in HCC?23:02
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M4rtinKShadowJK, Pali: wow, the difference between compiled and uncompiled is quite big !23:08
M4rtinK3.5 s for compiled, 6-15 s for plain py23:09
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ShadowJKjust py_compilefiles?23:10
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M4rtinKwell, I've wiped all .py and .pyo23:11
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M4rtinKthen run modRana23:12
M4rtinKand then again23:12
M4rtinKon a rw fs23:12
M4rtinKso it made the bytecode during the first run23:12
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M4rtinKhmm, there might be a difference on r/o filesystem (as for an app in /opt) as there would be no file writing overhead23:13
ShadowJKi thought pyo was pyc but "optimized"23:14
M4rtinKBTW, full benchmark without bytecode:
M4rtinKand with bytecode:
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M4rtinKlooks like the difference from pyc is only missing docstrings and asserts (?):
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