IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2013-04-23

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GremuchnikHi friends, two small questions: can I install Maemo5 on my Nokia N800 and, if yes, will I be able to install Easy Debian ( on it?  thanks!00:22
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kerioGremuchnik: no00:27
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Gremuchnikok thanks00:53
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ron0062000so is there update for x-chat02:06
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Sc0rpiuswho is responsible for thumbnails creation in Maemo (tracker? hildon-thumbnailerd?) and why there are thumbnails in the Media Player that are NOT in /home/user/.thumbnails ?02:22
Drathirthat isnt generated only for image files? anyway i can be wrong...02:24
Sc0rpiusvideos and audio files too02:24
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Sc0rpiusaudio files have the cover album02:24
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infobotaw, gee, DocScrutinizer0504:20
infobotSince Wed Apr 10 18:42:41 2013, there have been 25 modifications, 433 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 156 commands.  I have been awake for 12d 6h 37m 49s this session, and currently reference 119037 factoids.  I'm using about 24056 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3280.93/63.63 child 0.01/004:20
Sc0rpius0 morons? that can't be right04:43
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Drathirhow often is update ca certs in maemo?12:49
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andre__Drathir: never? :)13:19
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freemangordonandre__: hmm?
Drathirandre__: thats hurt...14:17
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Drathirfreemangordon: tis included in cssu trees?14:20
Drathir*this included in all cssu trees?14:21
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freemangordonDrathir: CSSU-thumb and CSSU-T 7.2 have the latest version, CSSU-stable is behind. Though I hope there will be a new update soon14:21
freemangordonDrathir: look at the changelogs14:21
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Drathirfreemangordon: thanks a lot... i must really think about move to thumb tree, and check how much stable it is...14:24
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XATRIXHi guys, is there any other navigation software for maemo ?15:26
XATRIXOr only Nokia Maps ?15:26
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XATRIXhm... really nice app as for linux15:33
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andre__freemangordon, if people ask for CSSU, then yes. I think I'm never sure what "Maemo" means :)16:03
andre__XATRIX, ,
andre__first two results on an internet search engine...16:04
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DocScrutinizer05[general notice] could all of you please provide a tad of feedback about elections? We sent out token/ballot mails 2 days ago, you're supposed to have received such a mail if you're elicible to vote. Referendum voting is open since several hours now, I already voted. Anybody else?21:23
kerioi don't have the ballot i think21:24
kerioi don't have the ballot D:21:26
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: who do i complain to?21:29
DocScrutinizer05send a mail to council@m.o CC techstaff@m.o please21:30
DocScrutinizer05check your garage account's email addr and the spam folder therein21:30
DocScrutinizer05often poeple don't even know where their garage account points mails to21:31
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DocScrutinizer05so A) check your garage account's eamil setting  B) check that email account if it's active and maybe has spamfiltered the ballot mail  C) write a mail to council & techstaff as above, preferably from that account garage points to, and mention clearly what's your garage account (URL/nick) and that you checked the aforementioned points and you want a ballot sent to you. Subject: "elections token mail missing"21:35
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is "missing election token" ok? i already sent it21:35
keriogarage account clearly stated21:35
kerioooh, i didn't have "I wish to receive emails from the community" enabled :s21:36
DocScrutinizer05once we receive that mail, we can check if we tried to send a mail to you (or you maybe weren't eligible during last election, that we used as basis for current election's electorate), we can check if such mail bounced, and we can add you to electorate if you were missing during last election21:37
kerioi think i was just missing during the last election21:37
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I think that shouldn't stop voting email21:37
keriobecause i wasn't eligible to vote yet21:37
DocScrutinizer05then we hope to get you in our next batch which catches all those who were'n eligable to vote during last election21:38
keriooh, i just realized it21:38
keriosending a ton of emails is /hard/21:38
kerioyou risk getting flagged for spam and shit like that21:38
DocScrutinizer05that 'late' batch should be no more than a few hundered users, and to make sure you're encouraged to send aforementioned mail anyway21:39
DocScrutinizer05yep, kerio. Exactly21:39
kerioyou can't just put 600 people in BCC, can you21:40
DocScrutinizer05those are unique mails21:41
keriooh right21:41
kerioi also realized that online voting is hard, too21:41
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DocScrutinizer05Woody14619a mentioned there's supposed to exist a web interface where you can ask for voting machine resending your ballot to your current garage mail account. I don't know if such interface already exists and works21:42
Woody14619aIT does, but only for people with an already valid token.21:43
DocScrutinizer05yeah, sure21:43
DocScrutinizer05could you share the URL?21:43
Woody14619aThink I just got the kink worked out to update karma from tmo at least in voting booth.21:43
Woody14619athe link is on the vote page.  A button on the vote page for that election called "Get Token".21:44
DocScrutinizer05errr? on the vote page?21:44
Woody14619ayup... where it askes you to login with your token21:44
DocScrutinizer05you have to sign in on the vote page21:44
keriodoes this mean that we have to trust Woody14619a for the election?21:46
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DocScrutinizer05woody, we announced we'll allow *everybody* to vote this time, since services were borked during a significant period of time. So shouldn't everybody be able to request a token mail that way (as long as the email addr you use there to identify is in line with your garage account)21:47
DocScrutinizer05kerio: no, we're checking what woody does21:47
DocScrutinizer05kerio: basically everything gets done in public, so everybody can see what's going on21:48
kerioi wonder if a decentralized system is doable21:48
DocScrutinizer05I just announced that you are supposed to have received your token mail and I explained what to do when you haven't21:49
keriono, i meant in theory21:49
DocScrutinizer05nothing you need to trust anybody in for that21:49
keriolike, how do you make anonymous voting that's also restricted according to certain criteria?21:49
kerioin a decentralized way, i mean21:50
Woody14619aIt's done... has been for ages.  We're using the same system we have for past 8 years.21:50
Woody14619a98% of changes I've made have been to change what was manual SQL commands into a web interface.21:50
Woody14619aI'll be documenting it more thuroghly after the vote.. but for now, need to work on vote to get ballots out to people.21:51
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DocScrutinizer05Woody14619a: could we simply create and send a ballot mail for anybody that has a garage account (since 3 months) and is using the "Get Token" link on voting page?21:53
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Woody14619anot as it stands right now.   I thought we were going for the karam >10 as computed still, which is why I was working on the computational fixer... which is now almost done and I'm planning to run on test table.21:54
DocScrutinizer05I clearly explained we don't use the karma limit this time, we decided on it in a council meeting and we published it that way in elections announcement,21:55
keriosee, nobody actually reads tmo :P21:56
DocScrutinizer05it been annouced in identical wordin on community ML21:57
Woody14619aProblem with that is, it needs to then pull their acct into voting table.. make a token, and mail it to them as part of that. :P  Doable, but not that easy.21:57
DocScrutinizer05then add a automatic "echo $mailadd >> list-of-tokens-to-send" to that "Get Token" button, please21:58
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Woody14619athat part is already done.21:59
Woody14619aThe problem is, it's looking for the user in the electorat table (of 5K) not the full user table (of 60K)21:59
DocScrutinizer05we need to send out that second batch RSN21:59
DocScrutinizer05and we need a standard way for users to request a token when we missed out on them in our two batches we sent22:00
Woody14619ak, so.. let me be clear on what's desired here.22:00
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DocScrutinizer05let me difine it once more22:00
DocScrutinizer05we send a token to all users who got one last time22:01
Woody14619athat part's done. :)22:01
DocScrutinizer05in addition to those who earned enough karma during last 6 months (since you now fixed that part)22:01
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DocScrutinizer05in addition to those who ask for it22:02
Woody14619athat's the part I'm working on.22:02
DocScrutinizer05to ALL those who ask for it22:02
Woody14619aEven those who created in < 3 months?22:02
Woody14619aAnd with anchient accounts that we know have no karma?22:03
DocScrutinizer05yes, since they might have been blocked to create an account >3 months ago22:03
Woody14619aSo long as they have a garage/m.o account...22:03
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DocScrutinizer05we however don't send to those who have opened an account <2weeks ago22:03
Woody14619aBut they have to know to go get it... hmmm.22:03
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DocScrutinizer05those who are asking for a token but have a really fresh account will get manual review22:04
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DocScrutinizer05our election announcement suggested to send a mail to council to ask for a token in case you didn't get any but think you should get one22:05
Woody14619a??  It's either manual or auto... I can't do both.  But there is a way now for Council to move someone "manually" from garage list to voter list.22:05
DocScrutinizer05that's fine22:05
DocScrutinizer05iirc qwazix said he'd be able to collect and process all inquiry mails to council22:06
Woody14619abut will still have to make a token for them and mail it...  working on that part too, as part of the make/mail/clone from id# on.22:06
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Woody14619ak.  Will mail Council with info on that process once batch 2 is out the door.22:07
DocScrutinizer05but none of us has a clue *how* to proceed to get those tokens created and sent from the list we comiled from our inquiry mails to council22:08
DocScrutinizer05so we need YOU to provide the tools so we can do that22:08
DocScrutinizer05or you process that list of tokens to generate and send22:09
Woody14619ayes, I know... As I said I'll mail Council with that once batch 2 is out and that interface is solid.22:09
DocScrutinizer05that we derved from council inquiry mails22:09
Woody14619aI'm using that tool set to make/process batch 2.22:09
DocScrutinizer05:-) \o/22:09
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sixwheeledbeast<<(19:23:00) DocScrutinizer05: [general notice] could all of you please provide a tad of feedback about elections? Referendum voting is open since several hours now, I already voted. >> Thank you for the reminder I shall do that now.22:12
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sixwheeledbeastWorth noting above in IRC topic?22:13
DocScrutinizer05why not, seems reasonable22:13
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer0522:13
*** DocScrutinizer05 changes topic to "REFERENDUM VOTE OPEN! || Welcome to #maemo | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | | Source: | Chanlog: | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet"22:15
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer0522:15
DocScrutinizer05time for a second coffee22:16
infobotrumour has it, merlin1991 is the secret master of CSSU22:16
kerio~literal merlin199122:17
infobot"merlin1991" is "the secret master of CSSU"22:17
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kerioinfobot: no, merlin1991 is the secret master of CSSU: <merlin1991> I'd rather finally shit a new -testing and fix the last repo issues22:17
infobotkerio: please, watch your language.22:17
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keriooh come on, it's a direct quote22:17
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merlin1991kerio: thanks :/22:18
kerioi don't think it accepted the edit, anyway22:19
DocScrutinizer05kerio: don't edit factoids owned by others22:20
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo merlin199122:20
infobotmerlin1991 -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Tue Jul  3 23:04:19 2012 (293 days); it has been requested 8 times, last by kerio, 4m 17s ago.22:20
keriobut it was hilarious!22:21
DocScrutinizer05you MUST NOT edit factoids that are owned by other users - those are factoids based on one of their registered nicks22:21
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: (edit and) ~lock merlin199122:23
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DocScrutinizer05only <nick> can ~lock <nick>22:24
DocScrutinizer05(and I can ;-D )22:25
fw190i have the token22:25
fw190just voted22:25
DocScrutinizer05the number of 'no' votes will be an idicater for me to guess how braindamaged and rotten maemo community actually is22:27
fw190then I'm saved22:28
DocScrutinizer05I hope for 0..3 no votes22:28
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DocScrutinizer05as for the usual number of misclicks/trolls22:28
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DocScrutinizer05a NO would basically mean "I raised my concerns in the discussion thread but nobody bothered to even listen. So I don't think the discussion period been done in a correct way"22:30
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DocScrutinizer05or it could mean "I'm a troll and want maemo to collapse and vanish into oblivion"22:31
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DocScrutinizer05fw190: thanks for feedback, and of course many thanks for actually voting!22:33
DocScrutinizer05please keep your ballot/token and vote for the council elections as well22:34
DocScrutinizer05they start in a week22:34
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fw190no problem Doc afterall I want the maemo to live22:38
Palijacekowski: ping22:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do you have a tarball of the rootfs from the fiasco image?22:43
kerioi'm on something that doesn't speak ubifs at all22:43
DocScrutinizer05umm, not really22:44
sixwheeledbeastSee it was a good idea to update /topic :)22:44
sixwheeledbeastEr ... you can vote for YES and NO, not normal :-/22:47
Woody14619aOnly first vote is counted...22:49
Woody14619afor referendums, you can still have run-off voting if there are more than 2 options.22:49
Woody14619aSo interface always allows multi-choice.  Even when it doesn't make sense to.22:49
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kguI would still recommend the elections to also be announced on http://maemo.org22:50
sixwheeledbeastI assumed this would be the case, but it's odd having multiple choice to a YES/NO question, lol.22:51
fw190could there be a banner on tmo about voting?22:54
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Pali~seen jacekowski22:54
infobotjacekowski is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 34 messages. Is idling for 6d 5h 36m 25s, last said: 'it worked and now you have two incompatible implementations of same thing'.22:54
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kguwhere is the YES/No poll?23:04
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kguheh, seems Referendum and Election details are lost to me on tmo, since I don't have the time to read all posts. Why is it so complicated? Sorry for my stupidity23:15
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keriokgu: vote yes on referendum, same candidates for hfc and mcc in the election23:19
kgucan't find the yes button..  :-/23:21
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Woody14619akgu: It's not.  It's updating the election rules to fix the 3/5 issue, and allow MCC to official represent to HiFo vs Nokia.  With the hopes that soon down the road HFC == MCC (if not ===)23:21
Woody14619akgu: make sure you have javascript turned on...23:21
kerioWoody14619a: will the merge then require a referendum?23:22
kerioor will it be a council thing?23:22
Woody14619aprob a referendum, as council lacks authority in rule set.23:23
kguIs the voting-tool located some where in
kguI'm sorry - I really feel so stupid, but can't find it :(23:25
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Woody14619a  You need to have gotten a voting token.23:26
Woody14619atake it you are new to the community?23:26
Woody14619aeg. havent' voted before?23:27
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kgunever voted before, and couldn't find no info in thread on howto23:28
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Woody14619awhat is your garage/ user name23:28
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kguI'm only on tmo23:30
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Woody14619ayou should have a account too.  What's your tmo name?  You should make an account now, if for no other reason than you need it to vote.23:31
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DocScrutinizer05((<kgu> I would still recommend the elections to also be announced on absolutely!23:46
DocScrutinizer05alas I have no idea how to change and I don't even have an idea who would know how to do it23:46
DocScrutinizer05you noticed "announcements" dates back to 2010?23:47
* GeneralAntilles wonders23:48
DocScrutinizer05"News" is empty for me23:48
DocScrutinizer05"NOKIA Developer" looks .... obsolete23:48
DocScrutinizer05as does "Cordia", kinda23:48
GeneralAntillesOh, good, I still have access to Midgard.23:49
GeneralAntillesI can post an announcement if somebody wants to write one up.23:49
Paliit is not possible to use update TMO to use account for login?23:54
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qwazixDocScrutinizer05, nokia developer still has some useful wiki articles about developing on maemo (which we might want to archive btw)23:58
Paliany idea how to archive it?23:59
qwazixPali, no idea, (except archiving everything with a http crawler)23:59

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