IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2013-03-18

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jacekowskisixwheeledbeast: ping00:56
sixwheeledbeastjacekowski: pong00:58
jacekowskisixwheeledbeast: flopswap_0.0.5.dsc was yours?01:00
jacekowskiand tenminutecore_0.0.7.dsc?01:00
jacekowskino, it's building rightnow01:00
sixwheeledbeastwhy the delay?01:01
jacekowskii've had to fix account syncing/creation on drop and garage01:01
jacekowski[2013-03-17 23:02:17] flopswap 0.0.5 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository01:02
sixwheeledbeastpackages page has appeared, am I supposed to get mail when it's built?01:03
sixwheeledbeasts/packages/the package01:03
jacekowskithat's the plan01:05
sixwheeledbeastgood good, thank you muchly.01:06
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M4rtinKjacekowski: might have found a bug: doesn't load01:26
M4rtinKjacekowski: other pages such as work fine01:27
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Estel_dmce and friends03:33
Estel_jacekowski, we might have problem with autobuild03:33
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Estel_I've uploaded new version of bnf some days ago... earlier than latest things from sixwheeledbeast03:34
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Estel_still, no sign of anything related to it anywhere03:34
Estel_should I re-upload?03:35
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samsunixHello. I was thinking replace maemo by ubuntu (fck sd cards and multiboot). can it be done?03:45
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ShadowJKwhy not sd? easy to take out and put in pc when you mess up etc04:01
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RST38hdoing it on internal NOR or card is a bad idea, too risky04:05
ManoftheSeaPlease to not be briking the N90004:05
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samsunixactually I dont use my n900 as phone anymore. I was thinking install unbutu + lamp + tcl-tk + eggdrop and keep it as miniserver04:12
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samsunixand I can always reflash it back to what it was04:13
samsunix <-- really attempting04:14
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ShadowJKthere no NOR :(04:21
DocScrutinizer05stupid, idea. A raspberry or any other dirt cheap uC will be way easier to handle04:21
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DocScrutinizer05also on any other such cheap board you usually have decent ethernet04:23
ShadowJKI've considered doing something similar with my cellmo-dead N900s04:23
DocScrutinizer05a 20 bucks used 6 y o laptop will be waaay more convenient for same purpose04:24
ShadowJKAmusingly, rPi has a more broken usb hw than N900, and its Ethernet is on usb :)04:25
DocScrutinizer05using N900 for it is like "I built a mixed out of my old vacuum"04:25
DocScrutinizer05"but why??"04:25
DocScrutinizer05"because I could"04:25
DocScrutinizer05dang mixer*04:25
DocScrutinizer05forget it04:25
DocScrutinizer05you'll do it anyway ;-P04:26
RST38hShadowJK: I have seen a comparison between RaspbrryPi and a generic chinese HDMI plug running Android04:27
RST38hShadowJK: Comparison was not in rspPi favor04:27
ShadowJKYeah, the Allwinner stuff is pretty neat04:28
ManoftheSeaRST38h: I have an mk802 II04:28
* ShadowJK was considering getting a olimex allwinner board04:29
ShadowJKalso runs linux04:29
ManoftheSeaI don't understand the fascination with the RPi04:29
ManoftheSeaDo you know my favorite part of the N900?  The way contacts are integrated.  Making a call is like making a VoIP call is like making an XMPP call.04:31
Estel_1. it's cheap 2. it doesn't have GPL violation in supply chain04:31
Estel_3. it was created without big corporate support, at least, till they signed with farnell and rscomponents04:32
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Estel_4. despite parts coming from china, people tend to think it's european, well, some way it is04:32
Estel_5. It got wibrant community before getting even released, in foss-like spirit04:32
Estel_personally, I would pay 20% more, if I would know that money isn't going to gpl violators in china, that can stop releasing stuff that interest me04:33
DocScrutinizer05ManoftheSea: and the addrbook being closed blob is what basically renders maemo fuckedup for all future04:33
ShadowJKThe soc is bigcorp that tells you to piss off unless you're buying 10 million chips04:33
ShadowJKsame for docs04:34
Estel_not to mention that I would pay 100% and 200% more for foss hardware/software device, that would be really without corporate support04:34
Estel_ShadowJK,  I agree04:34
Estel_I answered what people think :P04:34
Estel_so why it's popular04:34
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Estel_I still preffer it over chinese things, though - If there is a slight chance that pi foundation will release smth interesting in future04:35
ShadowJKBroadcom is firmly on my "evil" list :P04:35
Estel_instead of chinese clones that do it just for mere profit04:35
Estel_same here04:35
Estel_together with nVidia04:35
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ShadowJKAIUI, the allwinner soc is better documented than the rpi soc04:37
RST38hrpi is pretty much riding on hype04:37
ssvbEstel_: there is no corporate support for allwinner hardware, sounds like a perfect choice for you :)04:37
RST38hit is a generic arm board. it runs linux. so what?04:37
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DocScrutinizer05RST38h: it's never the ARM core that's the problem with lack of docs04:38
DocScrutinizer05it's the peripherals, the pinout, and similar shit04:38
DocScrutinizer05and *of course* such shit like gfx and companion chips etc04:39
ShadowJKAIUI, the problematic usb controller has no docs, just a single overworked guy with nda docs hacking on it (and dozen other projects) in his spare time04:39
DocScrutinizer05usb==peripheral, yeah04:40
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DocScrutinizer05see incredibly crappy docs of 3430's mentorgrafucks musb_hdrc04:41
uncloudedwould those Ubuntu kernels for N900 work with Debian wheezy?04:43
DocScrutinizer05why not?04:47
DocScrutinizer05if you compile all in one giant run04:47
DocScrutinizer05after fixing the missing dependencies and missmatches in function calls, pathnames, whatnot04:48
uncloudedI'll have to give it a try.  I tried linux-image-omap and it segfaulted.  not sure if armhf kernel and armel rootfs could be the cause though04:48
DocScrutinizer05kernel devels' fav game is to change APIs - like sysfs pathnames, sysnode semantics, devices semantics and pathnames or even completely changing devices - from one kernel version to next04:52
RST38hdoc: I know. The core is described by ARM itself after all04:54
RST38hdoc: but all the other shit they push into that soc... well...04:54
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: what is the latest cssu update version?04:55
DocScrutinizer05Latest version: Testing(2013-01-07): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo7.2; Stable(2013-01-10): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6 | Next meeting 06.0304:55
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DocScrutinizer05oops, a tad too long c&p from #maemo-ssu /topic04:56
DocScrutinizer05obsolete surplus info too04:56
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how many IRC users actually take notice of /topic anyway04:57
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: thanks all looks ok, i was little scared that long time any new update out...04:57
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DocScrutinizer05ohwell 2 months04:57
DocScrutinizer05those last 2 months were a tad busy for everybody ;-)04:58
Drathiryea i know about migrate, but that should be also funny time proppably?04:59
DocScrutinizer05aiui (got a bit detached) the guys prepare a major revision bump, including a CSSU kernel04:59
DocScrutinizer05oh yeah, soooo funny, I almost get blue in the face from laughing all day long05:00
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DocScrutinizer05maybe as funny as a rollercoaster or a ghost train, or whatching a splatter movie05:01
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Drathiri mean all time when doin something big something must happen some kind of suprizes/problems...05:01
DocScrutinizer05the only fun so far are the extremely gifted brilliant people doing all the work - it's a grace seeing them at work05:03
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: yes, and all users be really thankfull for that work...05:05
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Drathirif someone like what do can do it all the time with pleasure... i too few time ago finish setup arch linux on usb flash in configuration /boot separate partition / on lvm volume and works great all this do for fun and check something new...05:12
Drathirnow i think to try how works arm on vm...05:15
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Estel_unclouded,  but why crapbuntu?05:41
Estel_arch linux on N900 is pretty advanced project05:41
infobotObject-oriented library of tools for MP machine and networkprogramming. URL:, or version control software aiming to be better than cvs; at
Estel_infobot, arch-n900 is
infobotEstel_: okay05:42
infobotwell, arch-n900 is
Estel_Argggh, why QT have to suck so big time05:52
Estel_Alopex project looks great, but what comes from that, if it ignores half of my hardware keyboard remap, making imput a PITA...05:53
Estel_as every QT "app"05:53
* Estel_ whinnes at qwazix and freemangordon for choosing qt05:53
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Macerisnt dead?06:05
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thedead1440Macer: maybe for the n900 but it is fine and kicking on symbian^3 and the n906:06
Macerah ok06:07
Macerdead on the n900? it actually checks?06:08
thedead1440that's what i read on TMO06:08
thedead1440maybe it identifies with the user agent06:08
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DrathirEstel_: better develop on arch is cleaner and lighter than ubuntu...06:15
uncloudedEstel_: not Ubuntu, but using their kernel to run Debian wheezy.  getting a kernel that works seems to be hard work06:22
zaerc-n900interesting discussion06:23
zaerc-n900I'm running Squeeze on the n900 right now06:25
zaerc-n900in textmode without X :)06:25
uncloudedsqueeze runs sweet for me too, but the ofono version is ancient and backporting a newer version looks non-trivial06:27
zaerc-n900just got it to work, couldn't resist installing irssi and dropping by06:27
zaerc-n900it runs awesome like this06:28
uncloudednice work on getting squeez going though06:28
zaerc-n900thank you06:28
zaerc-n900it's almost going to be a shame to bolt maemo on top ;)06:29
zaerc-n900if we can get it done of course...06:31
Drathirunclouded: good to be obtain template of they kernel config and patches and make on clean tree...06:34
Drathirzaerc-n900: chroot?06:35
zaerc-n900no on micro-SD06:35
DrathirO.o nice...06:35
zaerc-n900it's not even using swapspace06:36
Drathirzaerc-n900: clean arch 32bit after install running using 47mb of ram...06:37
Drathiri goin to check arch arm when i make configure vm for them...06:38
zaerc-n900I'm usin 88mb atm06:38
Drathiri dont how compare arm vs normal pc 32bit ram usage for now06:39
Drathiri must check which one use more of ram...06:40
zaerc-n900I dunno either06:40
zaerc-n900well, time to reboot the phone again06:43
zaerc-n900and get it working as a phone again ;)06:44
zaerc-n900bye y'all06:44
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DocScrutinizer05~ # uptime06:50
DocScrutinizer05 05:50:42 up 67 days,  5:38,  0 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.0006:51
DocScrutinizer05hmm, yeah. time for a reboot06:51
DocScrutinizer05recently it started feeling laggy06:51
uncloudedDrathir: that would be better for sure06:52
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DocScrutinizer05sorted by %mem:
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: nice uptime... kexec?06:54
DocScrutinizer05nah, why kexec?06:55
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DrathirDocScrutinizer05: long time without reboot ^^06:56
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DrathirDocScrutinizer05: but how that is made 0 users?06:57
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DocScrutinizer05no idea06:58
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DocScrutinizer05not sure what counts as user, tbh07:00
DocScrutinizer05it seems you need your "users" to do logging to utmp/wtmp07:03
DocScrutinizer05this friggin thing doesn't even know `last`07:05
Drathirghost logged looks orginally...07:07
Estel_Hey, I have a serious dillema here07:25
Estel_I got a broken N900 into my hand. It usb port is perfectly ok and connectin with testpins is estabilished, but, when connected, it only charger, it isn't recognized as all as usb device07:25
Estel_connecting it to linux pc result in NOTHING (Tm) in dmesg07:25
Estel_just lke nothing got ever connected07:25
Estel_so, usb is "kinda" broken. Now, device is in bootloop, but backupmenu 0.65 is there, and works07:26
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Estel_that version haven't support for terminal, though07:26
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Estel_ I would like to restore working optfs and rootfs, but I have no freakin idea, what kernel was used on that device07:27
DrathirEstel_: charger working?07:27
Estel_Dragnslicer,  yea, usb is technically working07:27
Estel_data connection to testpads under battery works07:27
Estel_it seems that usb is dead by either kernel or hardware failure of controller07:27
Estel_charging works like dumb charger07:28
Estel_Drathir,  as for your question, I'm using debian wheezy chrooted on N900 ;)07:29
Estel_but for best kernel experience in different OS, really check arch07:29
infobothmm... arch-n900 is
Estel_now, I wonder what to do to get info what kernel is there07:29
Estel_as I i restore rootfs with modules to wrong kernel, I will loose backupmenu too07:29
Estel_making that device real unbrickable brick07:30
Estel_but just by summing it all up here, I got idea07:30
Drathirsomeone there if good remember distribute images to bring up from sdcard... but ts strange that linux not recognise and detect any device...07:30
Estel_I'll make backup of rootfs, unpack it on another N900, and update backupmenu files manually, to one having terminal...07:30
Estel_unles, damn, it's kernel without fbcon07:30
Estel_but I'll be able to figure kernel version from rootfs backup anyway07:31
Estel_prepare another device with vanilla + that kernel, boot sucesfully (hopefully) reviving device...07:31
Drathirmore scarying for me why pc dont detect flasher?07:32
Estel_nothing, probably usb chip dead or someone messed with kernel too much07:33
Estel_I suspect the 1st option07:33
Estel_I got that device for free as dead completely07:33
Estel_so making it even one without usb but working is better than leaving it as dead07:34
Estel_reviving is fine, reminds me of some cyberpunkish RPG's sessions ;)07:34
Drathirflash mode not should be detect anytime? also whem nead loop mode is active?07:34
Estel_if usb controller is dead, nothing will happen I tried coldflashing, but of course, no use07:34
Estel_as device doesn't seems to accept or send anything on data lines07:35
Drathirbut thats  is good for free n900 O.o07:35
Estel_connecting it to usb hub doesn't even light diode signalling usb device connected, or leave anything on dmesg07:35
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: ROMBL flashmode should alwys get detected, yes07:35
Estel_it just sucks 100 mA like usb light or whatever (from desktop)07:36
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  but what with device that got usb hardware fckd somehow?07:36
Estel_I suspected usb pins damaged, but it's rock solid, so measured it to testpads under battery, and it's perfectly fine07:36
Estel_Drathir,  so I really suspect hardware damage07:37
Estel_btw fun fact07:37
Estel_connected without battery to pc via usb result in device having solid yellow OR solid green diode07:37
Estel_I mean N900's led07:37
Estel_Generally I get some dead N900's from time to time for bargain or free, and most of them are really dead...07:38
Estel_but this one gives hopes for revival, even if handicapped07:38
Estel_re usb07:38
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Estel_Well, I'm not as much surprised, seen strange things ;)07:39
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Estel_We danced graveyards with the vampires 'till dawn, we laughed at the faces of kings, never afraid to burn...07:40
Estel_We seen N900 kernel reverting to default in nand for no plausible reason07:40
Estel_or any possible way07:40
Estel_I've seen and even hold in hands now N900, that can charge another N900 at 500mA in hostmode07:41
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: thanks i dont good know on that, but that about flasher remember from conversations with jacekowski and from technic hardvare side side he  can give you help hand...07:41
Estel_while hardware limit is well known to be 200 mA07:41
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DocScrutinizer05Drathir: sorry?07:42
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Estel_thanks Drathir, but currently, for all intents and purposes, usb data is dead there, and I'm perfectly sure about it. I'll investigate it further if manage to revive that device07:42
Estel_and don't mind old poor DocScrutinizer05, he may be clueless about what we're talking about, as he is getting only half of conversation07:43
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: oh sorry missing Estel_ nick connected with that help hand with hardware possible issues...07:44
Estel_he is part of folklore here ;)07:44
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: aah, was already wondering how jacekowski was supposed to give me helping hand on any hw issue07:45
Drathirbut also help me much too not a once time...07:45
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Drathirbut about usb on market like ebay but locally - allegro i saw a lot of devices with broken usb :/ is often i think issue...07:47
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Estel_yea, but i's about a port coming out07:49
Estel_not port being perfectly fine, but usb hardware chip dead ;)07:50
Drathirinteresting is any way to acces directly to onboard memory with edit and reflash?07:50
Estel_no, but there are test pins beneath battery07:50
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Estel_2 of them are usb data + and -07:50
Estel_one is +5V07:50
Estel_and ground you have everywhere07:50
Estel_you can create alternate usb connection07:50
Estel_downside - it goes around some hardware filtering parts against static07:51
Estel_upside: backup antistatis 8Kv is also build-in usb hardware chip07:51
Estel_so you don't lose much07:51
DrathirEstel_: i must buy cable to hostmode but i thinking it is possible to use host mode and in the same time charging phone?07:51
Estel_many people use device with work-around usb via testpads, no one reported static frying yet07:51
Estel_Drathir,  yea, but you need y-cable then07:52
Estel_and instead of buying hostmode cable I recommend cheaper female-to-female usb adapter07:52
Estel_then you use your normal usb cable, and usb adapter07:52
Estel_if you want, you may mod it to make it y-cable07:53
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: for me everone here is like a guru of n900 ^^07:53
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Estel_got some private message from DocScrutinizer05, warning you about him being guru and others not? ;)07:54
thedead1440Estel_: give it a break please; it gets boring reading the same thing "_"07:55
Estel_toldya he is a part of folklore here, don't mind him ;)07:55
Estel_thedead1440,  I don't exactly get what is same07:55
Estel_usb? it's another device07:55
thedead1440Estel_: no the scrtunizing :p07:56
Estel_with another issue07:56
Estel_not my fault ;)07:56
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DrathirEstel_: yea thats idea sounds better with this usb adapter07:57
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thedead1440Estel_: really your usb thing is knowledgeable to read but the other thing let it go; it feels very repetitive and alot of sighing07:59
Estel_as usual, you don't have a clue what I was reffering to ;)08:01
Estel_actually I mean one private message, that landed on wrong recipent :> participating parties know what it's about08:01
Estel_so let it go yourself ;)08:01
Estel_and thanks for usb thing, I'm worried that it's rather boring for most, tho08:02
thedead1440no idea on that but reading logs it doesn't seem anything happened?08:02
DocScrutinizer05ok, there been no private message, that's a alie and a ban08:02
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thedead1440i was reading about the usb testbed thing08:02
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_Letseehey, that wasn't nice. Although, quite predictable08:09
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thedead1440goodness me the reversed name is back in fashion08:10
DocScrutinizer05and earned him another month08:10
DocScrutinizer05he's been warned not to spread lies and defamations08:10
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thedead1440what private message was he referring to btw?08:11
DocScrutinizer05he made that up08:11
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thedead1440sigh... why does he keep doing that :-(08:11
DocScrutinizer05suggesting I had planned to send a query to Drathir that he got knowledge about08:12
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ten_charsban rage, eh? thedead1440, toldya to not use estel and DocScrutinizer05 and ban probably in one sentence ;)08:12
ten_charsDocScrutinizer05,  LOL, get a doctor or a life.08:12
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ten_chars(re backscroll)08:12
DocScrutinizer05anothe r month08:12
DocScrutinizer053 now08:12
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DocScrutinizer054 months08:15
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: $aEstel- maybe?08:20
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keriono, sorry08:21
kerioalthough ircd-seven's ban matching is quite flexible, so i think that you still match the hostname, even cloaked08:21
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DocScrutinizer05what a sucker08:23
thedead1440its sad; he spreads useful things but can't control himself08:25
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Pancake2Well, it seems that it's time to give this place (#maemo IRC) a lugh. If anyone needs me, contact Estel_ at, or TMO's PM (if banrage haven't returned there). See ya in better times, without psychos as chanops!08:29
Pancake2~spank kerio08:29
* infobot bends kerio over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on kerio's pasty white buttocks.08:29
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* thedead1440 wonders what was the spank for08:31
DocScrutinizer05for telling the truth?08:32
DocScrutinizer05btw a nice collection of his alter egos we have now08:32
thedead1440hehe true08:32
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DocScrutinizer05seem he has a special need for alternative nicks, wonder why08:34
DocScrutinizer05I however could bet on him starting another flaewar on tmo now - not that i'd care, just a pity for the mods over there08:36
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DocScrutinizer05moin Pali08:37
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DocScrutinizer05moin valerio08:41
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* Drathir still thinking what happend there and is any my bad in that...08:51
DocScrutinizer05no, Drathir. You're completely innocent in this08:55
DocScrutinizer05don't worry08:55
DocScrutinizer05it's just this particular user begs for a kick or ban every 6 months, probably due to some psychological problems. Seems the time elapsed once more today08:56
DocScrutinizer05we had other similar cases, that finally asked for a lifelong ban by themselves. pupnick anybody?08:57
DocScrutinizer05normal extrema of the crowd we call IRC users (or human race even) - one out of 300 is weird in a very special way08:59
Drathirgood to hear that ist my bad, that is strange i see before ppl writing bad word on channel and spamming, but that is something new for me...09:00
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: it's not your bad09:00
thedead1440lol: * infobot sends pupnick flying like a yipping chihuahua09:01
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: ??09:02
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: went searching in logs for pupnick ;)09:03
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discopigDocScrutinizer05, you're awesome09:36
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DocScrutinizer05Drathir: just please tell me: did I send *any* PersonalMail or IRC private query to you today?09:55
apinballwizardHowdy, I got on my hands an n900 that's having problems connecting to the network, either giving me "Could not establish network connection" or similar errors at startup.  Research seems to indicate this is an issue with 4 chips that are a part of the GSM module (?) coming loose from the board.09:57
apinballwizardThe gsm connection, bluetooth, wlan, the rest all work just fine last I checked.09:57
DocScrutinizer05ooh, GSM, so I assume GPRS09:57
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apinballwizardReading around, I see some have successfully dealt with it by attaching small springs on the chips and having the shield push them down into the board09:58
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apinballwizardThis doesn't seem like the best solution, but I'd like to know more before I crack my baby open and get to work on it.09:58
DocScrutinizer05yes, there's a known issue with GSM chips the way you describe it. Usually those faults also cause phonecalls to fail though, and most times you get a "SIM missing" icon in your statusbar09:59
apinballwizardI had an issue like that for a while months ago, however I was able to fix it at the time by placing paper between the battery and the sim card10:00
apinballwizardAssuming the problem was with the sim contacts10:00
DocScrutinizer05however the symptoms can differ, probably depending on which particular pin of GSM chipset got loose10:00
apinballwizardBut now the issue is more severe, and the errors now seem to point to the sim contacts not being the issue10:00
apinballwizardBut I'm unsure, of course.10:00
DocScrutinizer05pnatd is a good way to diagnose10:01
DocScrutinizer05as long as sending "AT" to pnatd gives "OK" answer, modem is still alive, at least partially10:01
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apinballwizardWould I be able to test with the sim out?10:02
apinballwizardI've got it in an old 5230 so I actually have a phone while the n900 is non-functional10:02
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DocScrutinizer05sure, pnatd should also work without SIM10:06
DocScrutinizer05actually you can even call 911 without SIM10:06
apinballwizardI'd rather not use that to test the status of the modem :)10:06
DocScrutinizer05(or whatever your local emegency call number, and depending on your carrier's policy, but at least N900 supports it)10:07
DocScrutinizer05*#0000# (iirc) should also work10:07
DocScrutinizer05or *#06#10:08
DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure if *#06# actually talks to cellmo10:08
DocScrutinizer05result anyway should be your IMEI popping up in a notifier10:09
DocScrutinizer05*#0000# is for firmware version - I guess of modem, so it probably would also need to talk to modem, but again I'm not sure10:10
apinballwizardWell, I did get the IMEI popup10:10
apinballwizardThat said pnatd does not seem to let me enter any at commands10:10
DocScrutinizer05anyway if either of both fails, you definitely got modem or libisi problems10:10
DocScrutinizer05root; pnatd10:11
DocScrutinizer05then type10:11
DocScrutinizer05and <enter>10:11
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DocScrutinizer05even when modem seems inresponsive, it might still recover by reflashing the cellmo firmware10:13
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DocScrutinizer05and probably you should reflash rootfs and eMMC during that as well10:13
apinballwizardIt hangs for a while before returning "Pipe endpoint connection: Resource temporarily unavailable"10:14
apinballwizardThen dropping me back to the terminal which is then unresponsive10:14
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DocScrutinizer05that's a pretty good indication that modem doesn't respond10:14
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apinballwizardWell this points to the chips being loose, rather than a bad connection to a sim card, yes?10:15
DocScrutinizer05or the firmware in modem got corrupted10:16
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apinballwizardI have performed no operations that would do such, I do not think10:16
DocScrutinizer05or rootfs (kernel?-)drivers for the pnat device are defect10:16
apinballwizardCoupled with the fact that placing paper behind the battery has solved a similar issue in the past temporarily, seems to me that it might be the hardware10:17
DocScrutinizer05anyway, before going hardcore and trying to fix hardware, a full reflash is always recommended10:17
apinballwizardOf course10:17
apinballwizardNow to just go about backing up to prepare for that...10:17
DocScrutinizer05odds are your modem chips got loose10:17
apinballwizardThat's what a few hours of searching seemed to indicate10:18
infobotmethinks backupmenu is
apinballwizardAlso that apparently the problem is more common in warmer climates, which I am in.10:18
DocScrutinizer05software usually doesn't care about climate ;-)10:18
apinballwizardHmm, backupmenu10:19
apinballwizardI might have to futz to use that, it seem that multiboot isn't directly supported with it10:19
apinballwizardOr I'll just save all my files and deal with a new installation10:20
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XATRIXHi, where are the settings for the e-mail client ?11:20
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XATRIXI have Sent,Drafts and some other folders like usual IMAP , instead of binding them to the program created ones11:21
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cityLightsis the auther of proximus here?15:57
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thedead1440cityLights: what is proximus? The Harmattan app?16:00
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XDS2010what parts of the n900's firmwares are still closed source ?16:25
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, closed is or
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cityLightsthedead1440: the application proximus16:40
thedead1440cityLights: the one for usage on the N9 right? AFAIK Creamy isn't on IRC16:41
cityLightsbrilient app16:41
cityLightswhich causes me to look for a new cellular that can run it16:41
thedead1440profilematic does pretty much similar with added functionality16:41
cityLightsI wore such a program and like it much16:44
cityLightsI wrote such a program and like it much16:44
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cityLightsbut I did it using python16:47
kerioyay python16:49
FlameReaper-N900is the autobuilder back up?16:50
FlameReaper-N900seems HAM is screaming that modrana has an update16:50
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cityLightscause python is easier for me16:53
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DocScrutinizer05FlameReaper-N900: yup, sounds about plausible17:24
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shapeHello, does maemo have the same issues like Android when it comes to program permission?18:11
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eccerr0rHi, I'm a virus. I'd like permission to infect your computer.  No problem you say? Thanks!18:13
shapeeccerr0r: hahahhaha, well that's how android works18:15
kerioshape: .debs are installed as root, and (pre/post)(inst/rm) scripts are ran as root18:15
kerioonce a program is running, it has user permissions18:15
keriowhich involve, by default, the ability to change the settings to autoconnect, ask for a connection, download a .deb, and make HAM install it as root18:16
shapekerio, I see, and can I install any deb or will there be problems with ARM arhitecture18:16
kerioif you run a malicious program on a n900, you're thoroughly fucked18:16
DocScrutinizer05just like on a real PC18:16
shapekerio: and yes I just bought a n900 and it's on it's way that's why im asking these questions :)18:17
keriothe thing is, the most valuable thing to a user is the data18:17
kerioand that's obviously damageable by any program18:17
kerioanyway, debs on are built by, and the source is available18:17
shapekerio: what about other programs, do I have to compile them?18:18
keriowhich other programs?18:18
kerioif you grab some armel debs from debian... etch? they might work18:18
keriokeyword being /might/18:18
keriothere's a vm image of the official development environment, you can compile stuff in there18:19
keriocompiling on device is incredibly slow and you have to work through hoops because the toolchain doesn't fit on the rootfs18:19
kerioso you have to move stuff around18:19
shapekerio: I see, let's say I download the deb of firefox from the official firefox website, because the phone is ARM it won't work?18:20
kerioand because libs will be missing18:21
keriothe .deb for arm could maybe vaguely work, but it'll probably take more space than there is on a n90018:22
kerioand the UI would be crap, because it's not meant for a 800x480 touchscreen18:22
DocScrutinizer05sounds like somebody searching for easidebian18:23
shapekerio: damn. Btw for a program, if it runs with user permissions I won't have the problem like with Android about it doing whatever it wants, correct? I'd have to su/sudo it for it to run with privileges.18:24
shapeDocScrutinizer05: yep, I know about easydebian :)18:24
kerioshape: what's the intent of this program?18:24
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kerioif it's malicious, as i told you, there's absolutely nothing stopping it from escalating priviledges18:25
shapekerio: Oh I see18:25
DocScrutinizer05that's not really right, once it's installed18:25
shapekerio: It was a general question because I think Android is not secure when it gives out full privileges like that :(18:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: sudo apt-worker <whatever> /tmp/malicious.deb18:26
keriothat's passwordless, even if you're not HAM18:26
shapeso I thought Maemo could change that :(18:26
DocScrutinizer05you could however install all that's needed to gain root access together with any malicious program18:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: that, too18:26
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shapekerio: Another thing. I know I can chroot ubuntu for example. Is it possible then to install something like GIMP?18:27
DocScrutinizer05shape: basically you have all options to make your system safe, on maemo18:27
kerioshape: install GIMP in easydebian18:27
keriohell, iirc it's already installed in the standard image18:27
shapekerio: NICE!18:28
kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, yeah18:28
kerioshape: there's no real problem with malicious software on maemo, because the vast majority of things you'll install have the source available18:28
kerioand have been built by a trusted party (aka
shapeDocScrutinizer05: The reason for all this is because I was so pissed off how my android phone uploaded my contacts to my google account (including all phone numbers) WITHOUT EVEN ASKING ME.18:28
keriooh, those are accessible to the user, any program on maemo could do that18:29
DocScrutinizer05with any commercial closed blob app that can happen to you on maemo as well. But no such app is knows to exist so far18:29
shapekerio: but only if it's malicious tho, correct?18:29
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shapeDocScrutinizer05: yeah, I don't use much anyway and I'd avoid closed/nonfree stuff18:30
kerioshape: i don't know of any program that does that without asking18:30
kerioyappari (a whatsapp client) obviously does, but iirc it asks for confirmation - and hell, you're kinda asking for it18:30
DocScrutinizer05to install such malicious closed blob you'd need to add a repo to catalogs of HAM, and that's sth not any driveby on a website could do18:30
shapekerio: that's nice :) heck even the phone is 3 years old imo it's worth it for the stuff you are allowed to control, etc.18:31
kerioi don't know of any remote code execution exploit against fremantle18:31
DocScrutinizer05nope, none known18:31
kerioshape is making me nervous :s18:31
* kerio disables non-free18:31
shapekerio: hahahahahhaha18:32
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shapekerio: if there are some android apps that I might need (like Medscape for example) is it possbile to install chroot android and use them like that?18:33
kerioin a chroot, not as i know18:34
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: sorry i go to rest when wrte that, but answer is no i dont get any PM from you, btw i think you dont have my mail  adres because if good remember but not sure is hidden...18:34
shapekerio: what about a program like Stellarium. What would be the process to go about installing that?18:35
shapekerio: compile it in a VM running maemo?18:35
keriois it in the debian repos?18:37
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jacekowskistellarium on n900 will be a mistake18:38
jacekowskiand it's probably hard to do18:38
kerioyes, that too :)18:38
jacekowskistellarium uses opengl18:38
kerioit's opengl, right?18:38
jacekowskin900 has no opengl18:38
shapejacekowski: is there a way to make opengl work?18:38
jacekowskin900 only has opengl ES (just like any other mobile device)18:38
Drathirshape: stellarium need opengl acceleration :/18:39
keriojacekowski: stellarium has a compile-time switch to use gles apparently18:39
jacekowskiopengl es is a fairly limited version of opengl so it may be possible to port it18:39
jacekowskithat will be easier then18:39
keriohahaha wow there's a BUILD_FOR_MAEMO flag18:39
shapekerio: where did you see that?18:40
kerioshape: as far as i can see, stellarium is in extras-devel18:40
shapekerio: in the repositories?18:40
shapekerio: Oh and I forgot to ask, can you install anything from the debian repositories and will it work?18:41
Drathirlast time i try to stream from real pc throught ssh -X but sayy about opengl, anyway maybe port to n900 is possible who knowa18:41
kerioshape: nope18:41
kerioit might work if you go and grab a package from debian etch and it's not a complicated program18:41
shapekerio: so how will i know which programs will work and which will not?18:42
keriotest them18:42
kerioor run them in easydebian18:42
keriowhich programs do you want to run?18:42
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Drathiri still think how make wlan and gprs work together in one time :/18:42
shapekerio: no idea, just curious what I could do with it. Easy Debian already will have what I mostly use day to day.18:43
keriounless you have some pretty specific needs, easy debian's main use is the novelty factor, imo18:44
shapekerio: I'm new to linux and want to learn it, that's why i got the device, so i could tinker with it wherever i go. :)18:44
Drathirbtw throught ssh -X qt application looks like works rally nice...18:44
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shapekerio: btw thanks a lot for the info, I really appreciate it. Now i'm even more exited and impatient for the phone to arrive. :)18:45
shapeOh, do you happen to know if there are other phones that will run pretty much any GNU/Linux OS. N900 seemed unique that way.18:46
kerioafaik, the n900 *is* unique that way18:46
Drathirshape: if you are new i reecomend you start from ubuntu 10.04 on pc next go to debian if still you like play with linux go to upper easier way and go to archlinux...18:46
keriojacekowski: stellarium runs at ~15fps18:47
kerioi expected much worse18:47
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shapeDrathir: Thanks for the info. I am already running Xubuntu 12.04 and installed Gentoo in a VM and tinkering with it there (A friend told me that's the best way to learn the inner workings)18:51
Drathirim not yet discowery clean maemo os and extra other os still wait for my patience...18:51
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shapekerio: you running stellarium at 15fps on an N900 right now?18:51
shapekerio: and everything is working? Installed it from the repos?18:52
Drathirshape: 12.04 on xubuntu is maybe too good way until unity is a really big mistake from cannonical in my opinion...18:52
kerioyeah, yeah18:52
keriothe UI is made for touchscreens apparently18:53
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kerioshape: i'm not entirely sure why you're so surprised18:53
Drathirkerio: 15fps is good result18:53
shapekerio: how is the battery on your device. Should I buy an extra one in case they get discontinued since the phone is quite old.18:53
kerioother, more popular, models have the same battery18:54
kerioi get far more than enough to last for a day of usage18:54
shapekerio: It's because it's awesome that I'll be albe to run that program on my phone. Not surprized but sort of excited.18:54
kerioi have a battery that's slightly better than the stock battery18:54
shapeDrathir: What do you mean too good. But yeah I don't like Unity and I like the programs that come with Xubuntu.18:54
kerioat least, the old stock battery18:55
keriothe new stock battery is kinda like mine18:55
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shapekerio: so I shouldn't worry about finding a battery in the next 1-2 years or so, right?18:55
kerioi dunno18:55
keriothere doesn't seem to be a shortage right now18:56
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shapekerio, what about programs like virtualbox, gparted, vlc, do they work?18:57
Drathirshape: i mean good too* because unity was terrible and xfce can be better if any junk from unity there in packages list...18:57
kerioi don't think virtualbox will be even remotely useful18:57
keriothe rest... sure, why not18:57
shapeDrathir: Yeah I miss Gnome 2 :( My first linux OS was ubuntu 8.10 :)18:57
keriovlc is in the repos, i think18:58
sixwheeledbeastshape: if you like gnome 2 reinstall it18:58
Drathirvlc works but i prefer mplayer anyway is still no gpu accelerate :/18:58
shapesixwheeledbeast: yeah but it's not maintained as far as I'm aware. Just Mate which isn't stable18:58
sixwheeledbeastapt-get install gnome-fallback18:58
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sixwheeledbeastyou can have gnome 3 that looks like gnome219:00
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shapekerio: what about Mozilla Thunderbird and Transmission.19:00
eccerr0rblah.  hate it when tmobile latency gets random... hard to type esc-p esc-n and ~. ...19:01
shapesixwheeledbeast: yeah, I know about it, but I guess I settled with XFCE since my computer is 6 years old or so and it's light weight.19:01
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sixwheeledbeast shape: This is what I have on my 12.10 setup, tried unity and gnome3 and didn't like them.19:04
sixwheeledbeasti suppose xfce is a good, lightweight option if thats an issue19:06
shapesixwheeledbeast: yup. I tried gnome-fallback long ago but I forgot why I didn't like it that much. I settle with Xubuntu also because of the programs it comes with, Thunderbird, Pidgin, etc. compared to Evolution and all the other stuff the original comes.19:06
shapesixwheeledbeast: and yeah, lightweight is definitely a must :)19:06
shapesixwheeledbeast: tried LXDE but it looks uglier than XFCE 419:06
shapesixwheeledbeast: and XFCE 4 seemed the most classic I could get.19:07
sixwheeledbeastgnome-fallback was horrible originally all sorts was broken, alot better now it's like gnome2 again really19:07
shapesixwheeledbeast: OH YEAH! it was buggy too, I remember now. So they fixed that?19:07
sixwheeledbeastall the widget/plugin are fixed and stable again. no troubles here since the last LTS19:08
shapesixwheeledbeast: I see, I'll check it out then.19:09
shapekerio: Thank for the info btw. I really appreciate it. I have to leave now. Take care!19:09
shapeThanks a lot guys for your help.19:10
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ssvbfreemangordon: how did you run the benchmarks for ? also was new pixman built with exactly the same toolchain and the same optimization options?19:35
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freemangordonssvb: yep, the same toolchain (stock gcc 4.2.1), same options. Two benchmarks, one being lowlevel-blt-bench, the other is cairo-demos19:37
ssvbfreemangordon: do you have logs?19:37
freemangordonssvb: gradient benchmark from cairo demos is 2 times slower with newer pixmap, I guess because of float instead of integer gradient19:38
freemangordonssvb: logs?19:38
freemangordonI can run  lowlevel-blt-bench all agains the two versions, but it will take time19:38
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ssvbabout gradients performance, it was probably this change -
ssvband some of the follow up patches19:41
freemangordonssvb: hmm, no, I guess it is the change from int div to float in linear gradients19:41
freemangordonI did oprofile, float <-> uint libc functions are on the top19:42
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freemangordonssvb: however, the result is that it is two times slower :)19:42
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freemangordonssvb: the last version with integer linear gradients is 19.04, this is what I am tweaking now19:44
freemangordonwith a couple of NEON patches it (esp 02-ARM-added-NEON-optimizations-for-fetch-store-r5g6b5-.patch) it has the similar perforamnce19:45
freemangordonssvb: BTW it turned out that fremantle pixman is 0.17.3, no matter what debian/changelog says :)19:45
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ssvbthe phoronix news about this gradients change - :)19:46
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freemangordonssvb: maybe it is faster on SSE2 :)19:47
ssvbit's just phoronix :) the changes were just supposed to improve correctness of gradients to match PDF spec19:48
freemangordonyes, I dig a bit about that patch ;)19:49
ssvbso it's hard to compare performance, in fact it got worse19:49
freemangordonssvb: it got 2 times slower on n90019:49
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freemangordonssvb: oprofile for 0.28.2:
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freemangordonunfortunately I don't keep oprofile for stock19:51
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freemangordonCPU is doing nothing but float<-> int conversions :D19:52
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freemangordondamn, stock is still 30% faster on add_8_8_8 than 0.19.4 :(19:54
freemangordonI guess I should give up on that19:54
Woody14619I'm away for a while (maybe forever as far as IRC is concerned).  If anyone needs anything, you can find my e-mail pretty easily. (same nick as here at yahoo)19:56
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ssvbfreemangordon: add_8_8_8 should not be a big problem, but gradients surely need more love (and SIMD code)19:57
ssvbbut the newer versions of pixman have optimizations for bilinear scaling, that's quite important19:58
freemangordonssvb: it IS problem, I won't introduce speed regressions via CSSU for n900 with its weak CPU19:58
freemangordonssvb: yep, scaling performs much better19:58
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freemangordonssvb: there is another problem with 0.2.82, check the results for HT VT and R here
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freemangordonssvb: I guess it is related to prefetching, but I am not that good on ARM asm to find the exact problem20:17
freemangordonor maybe I am missing some NEON patch20:18
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Drathirim wrong or gprs take a lot of power than normal phone?20:26
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thedead1440~spank woody14619 wherever he is20:36
* infobot bends woody14619 wherever he is over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on woody14619 wherever he is's pasty white buttocks.20:36
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ShadowJKDrathir, about the same, if data transfer is active20:40
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DrathirShadowJK: thats mean my n900 gprs behaviours looks strange :/20:58
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Drathirconnection is unstable and often connection some kind of freezeing the disconnect and connect again dont work say cant connect and to work again i must reboot the device...21:00
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Drathirand also drain much more battery power than wifi and on gprs more than e51 in past when using... is any possibility to debug gprs connection?21:24
ShadowJKI don't know of methods to debug21:25
ShadowJKBut I do know that when I'm in low signal conditions, like out at sea, my N900 eats huge amounts of power if online21:25
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M4rtinKany luck with the autobuilder ?21:59
qwazixkerio, shape, (IIRC better version than the one on devel available in ovi for 3e)21:59
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M4rtinKI summarized my findings about its state in this post:
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kerioqwazix: 3€?22:02
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DrathirShadowJK: is not full signal but with the same location on e51 looks that better and more stable, that the reason...22:23
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n900-dk_Any idea what is causing this high power usage?
n900-dk_What is IRQ#12 DMA?22:27
qwazixkerio, yep22:28
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Drathirdma mode looks for me like some kind of drive22:30
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n900-dk_what can cause this high activity?22:31
kerioemmc access?22:31
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n900-dk_could trackerd be responsible?22:34
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n900-dkdo we have a command to see drive activity listed for every process?22:36
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n900-dkCould not run iotop as some of the requirements are not met:22:39
n900-dk- Linux >= 2.6.20 with - I/O accounting support (CONFIG_TASKSTATS, CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT, CONFIG_TASK_IO_ACCOUNTING)22:39
n900-dkwhere did I fail?22:40
Drathirwhat is tsc2005 ?22:40
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Drathirchecked iotop working for me...22:43
n900-dkno kp22:43
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n900-dkkp is mandatory?22:44
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Drathirn900-dk: have you power kernel?22:45
n900-dkdo I have to to run iotop?22:46
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Drathirn900-dk: looks like yes or maybe is need load some of modules...22:51
Drathiri check with power kernel...22:52
n900-dkI will try to install power kernel, thx22:53
Drathirn900-dk: take a backup all data...22:58
n900-dkDrathir: power kernel did the job :)22:59
n900-dkohh, forgot the backup ;)22:59
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jacekowskiM4rtinK: ping23:43
M4rtinKjacekowski: pong23:45
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jacekowskiM4rtinK: can you try uploading again23:47
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M4rtinKjacekowski: ok23:50
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M4rtinKjacekowski: I'm on it23:50
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M4rtinKjacekowski: should be in23:51
M4rtinKversion 0.39.11 BTW23:53
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M4rtinKjacekowski: definitely looks better :)23:57
M4rtinKjust got a full BUILD OK message23:58
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M4rtinK also looks fine23:59
M4rtinKand the build also showed up in "latest packages"23:59
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