IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-03-07

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n900-dk_I'm a little uncertain about why I'm not able to find e.g. shortcutd and maegios via HAM00:13
n900-dk_but they are listed and installed fine via apt-get/apt-cache00:13
jacekowskitry going back to repository.maemo.org and edit your /etc/hosts00:14
n900-dk_I did edit /etc/hosts00:15
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jacekowskiahm, ok00:15
freemangordon~mirrors00:17
infoboti guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error00:17
n900-dk_ahh, guess it's because of 'ignoring version from wrong domain' - these entrys are in HAM log00:17
jacekowskifreemangordon: we are testing *new* r.m.o00:17
jacekowskifreemangordon: with fixed hash sums00:17
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freemangordonjacekowski: I know, it is not about me00:18
jacekowskibtw. you can join as well00:19
n900-dk_ 'wrong domain' check is only done by HAM?00:19
jacekowskiyep00:19
freemangordonjacekowski: sure I can, but not now, trying to help someone :)00:21
n900-dk_Ok, but works flawless with apt-get :) Guess HAM will be fine then, when domain is changed to new ip00:21
eccerr0ris the "new" r.m.o ultimately going to be the machine DNS is going to be pointed to?00:21
jacekowskieccerr0r: yes00:21
eccerr0rok cool, I wont have to worry about removing the /etc/hosts entry then :D00:21
n900-dk_Why is HAM only ignoring some packages?00:23
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Luke-Jrfreemangordon: ?01:13
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DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: long time no see!01:28
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: I'm always here01:29
DocScrutinizer05sure01:29
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless I had to think to recall your nick when we talked about alterative OS01:30
DocScrutinizer05a day ago01:30
DocScrutinizer05how's life?01:31
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sombragrisg'evening01:48
sombragris:)01:48
sombragrisa quick question01:48
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sombragrismy brand new N900 touchscreen got some scratches01:48
sombragrisI inadvertently put it in the same pockets with my car keys01:49
sombragris(dumb. I know)01:49
sombragrishow can I fix it ? the phone works well, the fix would be only cosmetic01:49
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sombragris(btw you read well: I got a N900 just 15 days ago. Brand new.)01:51
keriosombragris: often a screen protector will "fill" minor scratches01:52
kerioapart from that... well, you'd need to change the whole screen i think01:52
kerioor at best the digitizer01:52
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sombragriskerio: thanks. I think the scratches are minor. Main damage is that the digitizer isn't entirely smooth anymore. Nothing else, thankfully.01:53
jacekowskihttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Touch-Screen-Digitizer-For-NOKIA-N900-N-900-Tools-/320657724719?pt=UK_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item4aa8b0952f01:54
jacekowski3.9901:54
sombragriskerio: did you mean a protector like this ? http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Crystal-Protectors-Microfiber-Cleaning/dp/B00333A0TW/ref=pd_sim_cps_101:54
sombragrisjacekowski: let's see01:54
keriosombragris: yeah01:55
sombragrisjacekowski: wow. It isn't even expensive.01:56
sombragrisjacekowski: ty01:56
sombragriswell, I should get up to speed in t.m.o on tips on how to properly care for the N90001:56
kerio~usbfix01:56
infobotmethinks usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)01:56
sombragrisok01:57
sombragrisI had a N900 which I used a lot until I got lost. Never had USB issues though01:59
keriooh also install cssu01:59
sombragrisbut I would like to avoid this issue. Good point01:59
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kerioat least cssu stable01:59
sombragriskerio: I always meant to install the stable cssu01:59
sombragriswill speed the phone up ?01:59
keriono01:59
keriothe only thing remotely close to speeding the n900 up is cssu-thumb02:00
kerioand that's based on cssu-testing and it's somewhat experimental02:00
sombragrisI usually found the N900 very responsive. But it freezes sometimes02:00
sombragrisyesterday I turned on the phone, and the camera still wasn't available 10 minutes later. It claimed the audio was still busy.02:01
sombragrismaybe I should trim some apps.02:01
sombragriskerio: the tip on the USB port is great. Thanks. I was surprised to see how tiny the solder points for it were02:02
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sombragrisI think I'll take the phone to an electrical engineer or electronics technician here. They are the ones good with the soldering02:05
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jacekowskianyways, spread the word with new r.m.o ip address02:14
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tx0hwhere can i get the flasher-3.5 for linux? is this the right one? http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/d3/flasher.dapper02:22
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* tx0h sighs02:35
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tx0hfound it: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/maemo_dev_env_downloads/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz02:40
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tx0hhmm... whats that then? flasher_3.12.1_amd64.deb02:48
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Estel_hey hey, any progress with investigating autobuilder? jacekowski? not pushing, just curious03:43
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  I'm also pretty sure that XA's battery is ~800 mAh ;)03:44
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Estel_btw, today i played with one damaged digitizer (N900's). Initially though, that it could be moisture damage, so kept it in silica gel bag overnight - but, honestly, no sights of water damage. After assembling, it worked perfectly...03:46
Estel_for 10 mins ;)03:46
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Estel_then, started to act like one point is always in touch, a no ammount of "massaging" digitizer helped. Then, it started to work for a while, again... and stopped, as it seems, for good. I suspect that it was pressure damage after all. Just curioous, as there is 0 visible damage03:47
Estel_I wonder if there is a way, after all, to bring it into life (visually, it's stunning, not even single scratch)03:48
Estel_anyone have experiences with recovering digitizers from such behavior?03:49
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SpeedEvilit could be contamination on the boards04:33
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SpeedEvilwashing, and drying for extended periods at say 60 c can help04:34
* SpeedEvil looks at his digital scale in the oven.04:34
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Macerhi!08:30
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jacekowskiEstel_: autobuilder seems mostly working09:08
jacekowskiEstel_: and hash sums are fixed09:09
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freemangordonjacekowski: that's great :)09:09
jacekowskiEstel_: so if you want to try those use 213.128.137.22 as r.m.o09:09
freemangordonjacekowski: can autobuilder web interface be used?09:10
jacekowskii haven't tried that yet09:11
jacekowskionly dput side of things09:11
jacekowskibut that's disabled for now09:11
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XATRIXHI guys, yesterday i did full retrain cycle for my new battery. It's capacity is 1700mAh (and it's a brand new one)09:19
XATRIXCurrently i checked the status of retrain09:20
XATRIXLMD 1241 mAh09:20
XATRIXLooks like it can't train more than ?09:20
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XATRIXRepor. Batt. Voltage: 4129mV09:21
XATRIXCSOC: 100%09:21
XATRIXDocScrutinizer05:09:21
HurrianXATRIX: sure it's really 1700mAh?09:22
XATRIXYep09:22
Hurrian4.129 mV is pretty close to 4.2V, the maximum for BL-5H type batteries.09:23
XATRIXhttp://traf.us/en/p/1531/#.UThAXhyjFBw09:23
HurrianIt may just be 1300 mAh.09:23
HurrianYou do know that Chinese companies love rebranding, right?09:23
XATRIXSomething like09:23
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XATRIXBut i still have doubts about it's 130009:24
XATRIXI saw even 2300-2500 mAh for BL-5J09:24
XATRIXnon-Nokia09:24
XATRIXmaybe i have to retrain it again ?09:25
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HurrianXATRIX: That's pretty impossible for a single battery.09:28
XATRIXWhy not ?09:28
kerio*coff coff mugen*09:28
HurrianLi-Ion battery chemistry, etc.09:28
Hurriankerio: that doesn't qualify as a /single/ battery.09:28
keriois it actually two batteries, even the original one?09:28
XATRIXhttp://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2300mAh-BL-5J-BL-5J-Battery-Use-for-Nokia-N900-X6-5800XM-5800i-5800W-5230XM-5233/408348_518985402.html?src=ale&isdl=y&cn=csephase1&tp1=100001205&af=cse_szl09:29
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kerioXATRIX: yeah... no09:29
Hurriankerio: Two cells in one battery case.09:29
HurrianXATRIX: If you wanted 2500 mAh, you're going to have to make that N900 a bit thicker.09:29
kerio*310009:29
keriodual polarcell or dual scud09:29
XATRIXStill have doubts09:29
XATRIXit looks pretty thin09:30
keriothat battery is fake09:30
XATRIXhttp://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/2300mAh-BL-5J-BL-5J-Battery-Use-for-Nokia-N900-X6-5800XM-5800i-5800W-5230XM-5233/518985402.html  -this one09:30
kerioit's fake09:30
XATRIXOk, i can assume, that chinese EE guys, made a trick09:30
XATRIXThey did a hi-capacity battery09:31
XATRIXBut put a standard resistor onto, and it's reported as a usual one09:31
kerioother way around09:31
XATRIXBut it will drain it's energy much more longer against the Nokia's BK-5J09:31
keriothat battery is likely to be 800mAh09:32
kerioif you want high capacity, there's the akku polarcell and the scud09:32
kerioboth around 1500mAh09:32
XATRIXWhy do you think so ?09:32
keriothe standard bl-5j right now is 140009:32
XATRIXI mean, why do you think it's 800 ?09:32
keriobecause it's a battery sold in china09:33
keriothe default is to not believe *anything*09:33
kerionot even that it's a bl-5j and not a... sponge or something09:33
kerioXATRIX: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6556809:33
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XATRIXIt's even heavier than a standard one09:35
kerioby all means, buy it and report back09:35
XATRIXWhy are you killing my hope ????!?09:35
HurrianXATRIX: thetruth.png09:36
XATRIX)09:36
* XATRIX uses cpumem-applet09:39
XATRIXMaybe it will be better to start retrain battery one more time09:41
XATRIXMy current Aavg = 51ma09:42
XATRIXWhile all the comms were disabled, it was 5mA09:42
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XATRIXHmm.. the interresting fact is when i set my brightness to the lowest value my Average Current : 47mA09:45
XATRIXIf i set it to max ~0-4mA09:45
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XATRIXIs it consumes more power while the backlight is dimmed ?09:46
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jacekowskiXATRIX: unlikely10:01
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XATRIXBut it is10:02
jacekowskimeasurment error10:02
XATRIXYes, my current backlight is lowerst one position10:02
XATRIXCurrent 32mA10:02
XATRIXIn full - 010:02
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XATRIXDischarging batt. Average Current: 307 mA10:09
XATRIXReported Battery Voltage: 4070 mV10:09
XATRIXLast Measured Discharge: 1241 mAh10:09
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tx0hmo'nin'10:27
tx0hwhich version of flasher do i need? maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz or flasher_3.12.1_amd64.deb ?10:28
tx0h(for n900)10:29
keriofor the n900, 3.510:30
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tx0h3.12 is for what? N9 only?10:30
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kerioi think so, yes10:32
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tx0hty10:34
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tx0hwhat is the difference between the maemo version? USA, UK, Global... ?10:39
tx0hi guess it is ok with the global one?10:39
kerioyeah, the global one is the recommended one10:40
kerioit works on every n90010:40
* tx0h nods10:41
tx0hbut what is the difference?10:41
kerioi'm not entirely sure10:45
tx0h:-)10:45
tx0hme neither10:45
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keriostuff like the fmtx might be missing from some of those specialized releases10:45
tx0hdo you know what FIASCO stands for?10:46
tx0hfmtx?10:46
keriofm transmitter10:47
tx0haah, yeas. this might be10:47
tx0hi just ordered the usb cable but i try to sort things out, now that i've got a n900 with a working usb port :-)10:48
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* b0unc3 good morning11:36
* tx0h waves11:45
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divVerentThe following packages will be REMOVED: kernel-power-flasher kernel-power-modules kernel-power-settings12:30
divVerentThe following packages will be upgraded: kernel-power12:30
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divVerentist this ok to do or not? i.e. did the other three get merged into kernel-power, or should I better wait for the other packages to get updated to match the current kernel-power?12:30
keriowat12:30
divVerentI get this from apt-get install kernel-power12:31
divVerentas upgrade told me it's kept back12:31
kerioPali: did you merge all the things12:31
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divVerentah, I see, kernel-power-modules did get updated, so using the new version would fix it; however, kernel-power-flasher does not work with current kernel-power12:33
keriodivVerent: i think that waiting would be better12:33
divVerentAH, I see12:34
divVerentthe flasher is not in stable or testing yet, just in devel12:34
divVerentwhich I have pinned down to 112:34
divVerentso I never auotmatically get stuff from devel12:34
divVerentbut I have testing active12:34
divVerentok, deactivating testing then for now12:34
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divVerentok, the other three kept back packages are easy to fix by installing them explicitly... they are only kept back due to new dependencies12:36
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divVerentsdl-mixer e.g. seems to have learned about vorbis12:37
keriothat's from -devel, yes12:37
divVerentno, not -devel12:37
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divVerentthis package is from extras stable12:37
divVerentprobably recently got pushed to stable12:37
divVerentdevel has a slightly newer version ;)12:37
divVerentok, upgrade is happy, now time for deborphan12:38
divVerentis the community-ssu-enabler package still useful after having run the enabler?12:38
kerioyeah12:39
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divVerentwhat would happen if I were to remove it?12:39
kerioyour n900 will explode12:40
kerioor maybe some confusion with HAM and the metapackage12:40
divVerentall I see it still "does" is an apt-worker diversion12:40
keriocommunity-ssu-enabler has the keys and the catalogue information for the CSSU repos in HAM12:41
kerioah yes, you're on stable12:41
keriothat diversion is necessary to make updates via HAM work12:41
divVerentAH, right12:41
divVerentthe prerm script would also take the repo out of hildon12:41
divVerentok, then I need it12:41
divVerentdeborphan -A'd12:41
divVerentspeaking of which, I maybe should try packaging debfoster or deborphan for Maemo...12:42
vi__so is palis bme replacement cool to use yet?12:42
divVerentI currently am using the version from debian.org, with the binary extracted out of the .deb12:42
vi__or will it make my n900 asplode?12:42
divVerentthe deborphan .deb from Debian doesn't install due to library deps, BUT the binary runs anyway. As in, the libraries are more compatible than Debian thinks they are ;)12:42
keriovi__: i've been using it for... idk, a month and a half?12:43
keriomy n900 explodes all the time12:43
keriobut, to be honest, there are still some quirks12:43
vi__such as?12:43
keriothere's pretty much no green led at any time12:44
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vi__meh12:44
divVerentmine didn't explode at all yet... probably the lithium ion battery has not enough power for a nice fun explosion any more12:44
kerioand, in the latest version, it's impossible to calibrate bq27k because the phone shuts down at EDV112:44
vi__lolwut12:44
vi__that is a pretty big 'quirk'.12:44
divVerenthttp://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINAL-VHBW-BACKUP-AKKU-10400mAh-WEIs-fur-Nokia-N9-N9-00-/200895374450?pt=DE_Handy_PDA_Akkus&hash=item2ec64c2472 - probably need one of these :P I bet this battery CAN explode when "used right"; i.e. wrong12:45
vi__what other cool shit has happened in the past 3 months?12:45
Hurrianvi__, meh, you can continue calibrating when the phone comes back up.12:46
vi__aah, so while it shuts down on edv1, it does record the last measured discharg?12:46
vi__If so, that is just fine.12:46
Hurrianyep, it's stored in the battery, after all.12:46
vi__...12:47
vi__So has any cool new shit surfaced recently?12:47
Hurrianwait, is EDV and VDQ stored on the battery's fuel gauge or on the N900's fuel gauge?12:47
vi__...12:47
vi__The battery does not have a fuel gauge.12:48
vi__The BQ chip is supposed to be in the battery (like a laptop pack) but in the n900 case, it is not.12:48
Hurrianah, that was it.12:48
Hurrianvi__: there aren't really loads of groundbreaking new stuff for Fremantle, just the usual updates and bug fixes.12:49
kerioHurrian: wait, no you don't12:50
keriobq27k needs like 15 seconds at edv112:50
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Hurriankerio: ah crap, that means that I've been doing calibration wrong all this time.12:59
jaska10400mAh? what?:D13:01
Hurrianjaska: looks like a power tank.13:02
jaskaah, external13:02
jaskathought someone had went nuts and made a bigger back cover than mugen and crammed 10.4 Ah in there :D13:02
Hurrianjaska: That'd make the N900 twice as thick as it already is.13:03
jaskawell, you could extend it at one end13:03
HurrianMaybe one can be made from a few 18650 batteries.13:03
jaskafrom the side that has the usb connector.. just have a passthru13:03
jaskaactually, thatd be awkward13:04
jaskaperhaps the slider/phonojack end then.. and provide passthru for the connector and some mechanical thingy for slider13:04
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Hurrianthat'd be more awkward, it'd be trouble to have the slider thingy properly fit over the original slider lock13:05
HurrianmuUSB passthru with a switch to toggle charging would be better.13:06
jaskayeah but then it would extend past your ear13:06
jaskaopposite of older phones13:06
Hurrianwait, it'll probably also need a circuit to prevent charging when connected via USB.13:06
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kerioHurrian: just use doc's script13:29
kerioor mine13:29
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, where to create new ticket?13:36
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: you've been in CC, please notice that this mail was to support at nemein.com13:57
DocScrutinizer05I kept you in CC to let you know13:57
Paliah, now I see :-)13:57
DocScrutinizer05that doesn't mean you need to do anything13:57
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DocScrutinizer05important question to our experts here!!!14:35
* andre__ hides when he sees three question marks14:36
DocScrutinizer05if scratchbox.org NS was a CNAME, would that work for installation scripts and whatever else needs scratchbox.org URL?14:36
divVerentyou mean NS record pointing to a CNAME? That works, is discouraged though.14:37
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divVerentOr do you mean the name record for scratchbox.org itself? "Usually this works", but I suppose nobody has tried it yet14:37
DocScrutinizer05might be our best option14:37
divVerentthe glibc resolver doesn't care14:37
divVerentI mean, are you planning to have scratchbox.org IN CNAME someotherhost14:37
divVerentor do you mean scratchbox.org IN NS ns01.scratchbox.org, and ns01.scratchbox.org IN CNAME whatever14:38
DocScrutinizer05I mean  scratchbox.org -CNAME-> scratchbox.maemo.org -> our new IP14:38
divVerentoh, so you don't mean the NS record14:38
divVerentassuming only the glibc resolver is involved, this will work14:38
divVerentmost resolvers support CNAME14:38
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no expert here14:38
divVerentand userspace programs don't care14:38
divVerentbasically, you MAY discover some brokenness, but that then needs fixing anyway ;)14:39
keriodivVerent: a resolver that doesn't support CNAME isn't standard anyway14:39
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divVerentkerio: that's my point14:39
kerioand wouldn't work for... google.com14:39
divVerentyes :P14:39
DocScrutinizer05so i gather we're fine when whoever owns scratchbox.org now will change that to a CNAME pointing to a maemo.org subdomain?14:39
divVerentyes14:39
kerio...no, wait14:39
keriohold on14:39
divVerentthe one catch is that they need to be ABLE to turn it into a CNAME14:39
divVerentnot every hoster allows this :(14:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i'm afraid that the answer is no, actually14:39
divVerentsome cheap domain hosters only allow A records14:39
keriothe DNS standard states that a record is either **only** a CNAME or other things14:40
divVerentkerio: right, so?14:40
kerioit's not entirely specified if the SOA record for scratchbox.org counts14:40
divVerentthat's a nice catch ;)14:40
keriobut even then, mixing CNAME and, say, MX will probably cause problems14:40
kerioso you wouldn't have scratchbox.org emails14:40
divVerentalso... do you really use scratchbox.org, or subdomain.scratchbox.org?14:40
divVerenta simple CNAME won't fix the subdomains14:41
DocScrutinizer05scratchbox.org.         600     IN      SOA     ns1.creanor.com. postmaster.creanor.com. 2011082203 7200 3600 604800 60014:41
DocScrutinizer05scratchbox.org.         600     IN      MX      10 smtp01.wmfi.net.14:41
DocScrutinizer05scratchbox.org.         600     IN      A       80.248.164.24514:41
keriothey use email, so nope14:41
divVerentemail uses the MX, yes14:41
kerioa cname isn't guaranteed to work14:41
divVerentand we know of some broken email resolvers ;)14:41
divVerentI mean, some mail servers do their own resolving, and don't support CNAME14:41
divVerentwasn't qmail one of these? ;)14:42
divVerentalso, do you use any subdomains of scratchbox.org?14:42
divVerentlike, "www.scratchbox.org"14:42
divVerentCNAME won't fix these14:42
DocScrutinizer05ok, for what matters to me, CNAME is no viable alternative to transfer of domain to maemo.org14:42
kerionope14:42
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: ^^^14:43
divVerentI would indeed recommend the transfer14:43
keriowhose domain is scratchbox.org anyway?14:43
DocScrutinizer05that's the question14:43
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: noted; we hope they do the transfer in that case14:43
divVerentRegistrant Name:Movial14:43
kerioDocScrutinizer05: changing the domain's NS records would work14:43
divVerentRegistrant Organization:Movial14:43
divVerentRegistrant Street1:Porkkalankatu 20 A14:43
divVerentso you get street address14:43
divVerentbut this doesn't look like a name14:44
divVerentanyone want to visit him? ;)14:44
divVerentin Helsinki, Finland14:44
divVerentchanging the domain's NS records is indeed the proper way14:44
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keriowell, the proper way is to change ownership of the domain14:44
kerioand then do whatever14:44
DocScrutinizer05yep14:44
floriandivVerent: Movial is a company14:45
DocScrutinizer05we're hosting sb on maemo.org, so we need control over the DNS14:45
DocScrutinizer05sooner or later14:45
DocScrutinizer05I hand over this discussion to thedead1440, maintainer of maemo sb VM14:46
thedead1440basically even if they change their ns records to sb.maemo.org it would be fine right?14:46
DocScrutinizer05right, for now14:47
divVerentyes, but in the long run, it'd be good to have ownership of the domain anyway14:47
DocScrutinizer05but not for any future service we might need to do due to e.g. change of IPs on our infra14:47
divVerenti.e. "formal ownership", e.g. right to transfer etc. (and obligation to pay ;))14:47
kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, changing their ns records would mean that we control the DNS for that domain14:48
DocScrutinizer05that too14:48
thedead1440divVerent: it would be good to have ownership but we must also work on the basis if Movial is not interested in transferring the domain over14:48
divVerentthedead1440: right14:48
divVerentif they are not interestd, BUT will do the NS record thing, then that works14:48
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I know, but they won't do that14:48
thedead1440I need to present an alternative to them other than domain transfer so as to not scare them away14:48
keriowhy the fuck not14:48
divVerentthing is, if they keep owning the domain, but point the NS records elsewhere... it'd be kinda pointless to them14:48
keriowhat use could they POSSIBLY have for scratchbox.org14:49
divVerentthey may be interested, but the interest may be a function of the price one would be willing to pay ;)14:49
DocScrutinizer05scratchbox.org.         600     IN      SOA     ns1.creanor.com. postmaster.creanor.com. 2011082203 7200 3600 604800 60014:50
DocScrutinizer05scratchbox.org.         600     IN      NS      ns1.creanor.com.14:50
DocScrutinizer05either they transfer domain to maemo.org, we pay and control it. Or (poor alternative) they keep their domain ownership and control and just point the A record to our VM14:51
DocScrutinizer05aiui that are the two alternatives available14:52
DocScrutinizer05if tehre's a sound 3rd one, let me know14:53
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divVerentDocScrutinizer05: I checked the RFCs. There is none.15:08
divVerentpointing the NS records to something below maemo.org IS a possibility, but a very unlikely one for them to accept (I'd suggest it anyway, but not expect this variant to be chosen)15:09
divVerentas it'd end up with them paying for the domain, without being able to do anything with it (other than being able to take away the NS record at any time)15:10
divVerentone SLIGHTLY different way would also be them changing their DNS zone to be a slave zone, with the master on maemo.org15:10
divVerentso if you update the zone, it automatically transfers to their DNS servers15:10
divVerentbut that's EVEN less likely, as they'd then ALSO pay for the DNS hosting infrastructure without having any control ;)15:11
Estel_jaska,  I've, actually, put a little thicker cover for 7800 mAh battery (2x lions)15:17
Estel_still little too big to do it without body replacement, not due to thicknes,s but due to how 18650's are long15:17
Estel_- yoda like grammar15:17
Estel_anyway, what I mean is that it's still possible, and N900 live what seems like eternity on single charging15:18
Estel_althoug charging take ages15:18
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: yes, thanks for the explanations. We are following hidden-primary concept for maemo.org domain with Nokia, until final handover to HiFo. i don't see this flying for this case though. I wouldn't even suggest it to Jussi15:18
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divVerentyes, it would give them a BIT more control, as they then could still create (to some extent) subzones in their DNS to override stuff (RFCs don't really like this, though, but people do it...)15:19
divVerentbut yes, it means even more overhead to them :P15:19
Estel_~8h to full, or 6h to almsot full (so-called fast charge, if you skip saturation)15:19
divVerenta Maemo question again... how would I try to calibrate the battery?15:20
Estel_XATRIX,  your battery IS 800 mAh, period. Resistor inside shows 1300 mAh, which is bshit, all the time in any battery15:20
divVerentI noticed that when unplugging the charger in charged state, it immediately drops to about 90%15:20
Estel_div, either use DocScrutinizer05's automagic script15:21
divVerentand also, it just ran for over 30 minutes at 0.0%15:21
Estel_or find a guy named "Estel" in TMO, and check his signature - detailed instruction for manual calibration there, including all "why and how it works"15:21
divVerentit's the original battery, but it's the one that came with the device when it was bought, so it's a bit worn out15:21
Estel_divVerent,  don't look at this 0, if you're reading from bq chip, it just mean it's not calibrated properly (yet)15:22
jaska7800mAh, that oughta last a while15:23
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: 30min or more at 0% is normal15:23
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: also drop to 95%(?) in pretty short time after unplug is normal, not to 90% though15:24
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  but not with readings from bq15:24
DocScrutinizer05yes15:24
DocScrutinizer05err15:24
DocScrutinizer05bq jumps from 95% to 100% on charging15:25
Estel_with bme everythning is possible (tm), as it uses sado-macho alghorithm with voltage15:25
DocScrutinizer05on dischraging it shouldn't do this15:25
Estel_yea15:25
divVerentEstel_: haha, it uses voltage...15:25
divVerentthat explains why sometimes the charge went up during use ;)15:25
divVerenti.e. some down-spikes that recover a bit later15:25
DocScrutinizer05anyway since I have nfc what divVerent is using to get those readings, I don't really care to explain all the differnet scenarios15:26
* Estel_ just unloaded bq2415x_battery and bq27x00_battery using Pali's replacement, and waits to see, if it will calibrate as advertised15:26
Estel_jaska,  funny thing, is that thicknes isn't as bad with 1865015:27
divVerentDocScrutinizer05: oh, different programs show different percentage at same state?15:27
Estel_(imagine ~2 cm distance from N900's motherboard, it shield, to be precise)15:27
DocScrutinizer05sure15:28
divVerentreading is from "Advanced Power"15:28
Estel_divVerent,  it depends if it uses bq27x00 or bme or voltage without averaging or...15:28
DocScrutinizer05otherwise why would we have different 2programs" ? ;-)15:28
divVerentand I haven't touched anything bme-related yet on the system15:28
Estel_divVerent,  advanced power got at least 3 methods build in, user configurable15:28
Estel_no idea which one you're using15:28
DocScrutinizer05ouch15:28
divVerentit's set to "Nokia's BME"15:28
Estel_so you know what you get15:28
DocScrutinizer05that's guesswork15:29
DocScrutinizer05and calibration won't change it15:29
Estel_btw why wasting RAM for advanced power monitor, is using bme readings anyway?15:29
divVerentthe third method is "Dummy", so that one probably doesn't work15:29
Estel_yea ;)15:29
divVerentEstel_: only reason why I use it is so I can get a percentage in the status dropdown15:29
Estel_but it's guesswork anyway15:29
divVerentif there's a better way to achieve that, I'd kill it15:29
Estel_you could made your own percentage from bars :P15:29
DocScrutinizer05~bq27k15:29
Estel_APM is good program, but frankly, i don't use it for ages15:30
DocScrutinizer05dang15:30
divVerentI also run battery-eye to get "nice graphs"15:30
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys bq15:30
PaliEstel_, is 30s enoght after EDV1?15:30
infobotFactoid search of 'bq' by key (19 of 37): airport abq ;; airport bqk ;; airport bqn ;; airport dbq ;; airport lbq ;; bq-calibrate ;; bq27200 ;; bq27k-detail ;; cbq ;; cbq.init ;; gbbq ;; gnu/linux bbq project ;; html <bq clear> ;; html <bq nowrap> ;; html <bq> ;; jargon bqs ;; jbq ;; jobqueue  ;; kbquery.15:30
DocScrutinizer05dafaq15:30
Estel_battery-eye is a mess, it uses bme, so this graph is made-up guessworking15:30
DocScrutinizer05~listkeys bq215:30
infobotFactoid search of 'bq2' by key (2): bq27k-detail ;; bq27200.15:30
DocScrutinizer05~bq2720015:30
infobotbq27k-detail is, like, http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail215:30
Estel_divVerent,  if you want most conveinent and accurate readings as it goes now...15:30
Estel_either go super-devel and install kp52 and Pali's bme replacement bits...15:31
DocScrutinizer05use bfn15:31
Estel_and kerio's fork of Pali's battery applet15:31
Estel_...or use bnf (shameless advert)15:31
Estel_oh thanks DocScrutinizer05 :P15:31
DocScrutinizer05which isn't mature yet (bme-replacement)15:31
PaliWTF? kerio's battery applet fork?15:32
Estel_just keep in mind that newest bnf is provided as tar drop-in file replacement for older version, due to repos everyone-know-what15:32
kerioi deny the existance of such things15:32
Estel_:P15:32
Estel_Pali,  kerio's fork ignore that resistor build-in thing, and read from bq27x00 all the time15:32
Estel_sorry :P15:32
kerioit's like a two-line change15:33
Estel_it's just more practical to use, 'till you incorporate the things we've discussed and agreed on15:33
keriofwiw, i don't use it15:33
Estel_well, it's still fork of some kind :P15:33
Estel_for 3 people using latest bme replacement, at least one person uses fork :P15:34
divVerentFailed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/i/i2c-tools/i2c-tools_3.0.2-1maemo3_armel.deb  Hash Sum mismatch15:34
divVerentis this something I did wrong? :P15:34
Palibtw, did you wrote wiki page for discussion and possible solutions for percentage, design capacity, etc...?15:34
keriodivVerent: yep, it's all your fault15:34
kerioyou broke the internet15:34
divVerenthehe15:34
Estel_kerio promised to do that *rises finger*15:34
PaliI'm still waiting :-)15:34
kerioi deny the existance of such promises15:34
Estel_Pali,  it seems that I can do it, IF wiki stopped to work at 7 b/s15:35
Estel_last time i tried it was like that15:35
Estel_just remind me of other "solutions"15:35
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Estel_as it seems that I remember only the ones that actually works?15:35
Estel_s/ones/one/15:36
infobotEstel_ meant: as it seems that I remember only the one that actually works?15:36
Estel_btw it funny, 6 months ago we didn't believed in possibility of bme replacement, now we have "multiple solutions" and even small fork15:36
Estel_divVerent,  btw, pali's battery aplet and kerio's fork shows percentage too15:37
Estel_even without drop-downing15:37
* Estel_ teases15:37
kerioenough with the "fork" thing15:38
Estel_the only one problem for now is that it shut down device at edv1 so disallow calibration, untill you unload modules before - but Pali promised to fix it soon, even without wiki page with multiple solutions... ;)15:38
keriomaybe you don't realize it, but the hardest part in what i did was installing scratchbox15:38
Estel_kerio, sure15:38
Estel_it's always the hardest part15:38
Estel_I couldn't bug myself to do it up to this date15:38
freemangordonkerio: ooh, you have SB installed15:38
keriono, i eventually downloaded the ubuntu vm image15:39
Estel_don't even ask how i packaged bnf and ereswap15:39
Estel_you really don't wanna know15:39
keriohow did you package bnf and ereswap?15:39
PaliEstel_, now I'm adding code which wait 30 seconds before sending empty signal to DSME15:39
Paliit is ok?15:39
freemangordonkerio: so nothing stops you now to start coding for CSSU :P15:39
Estel_(but it's properly packaged, anyway)15:39
Estel_Pali, np!15:39
Estel_no!15:39
Estel_there is still a problem15:39
Palihm?15:39
keriofreemangordon: hey let's not get too ahead of ourselves now15:39
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Estel_it need 15 seconds on edv1 *without* going above edv15:39
Estel_as it resets timer15:39
Estel_and happens all the time15:40
kerioEstel_: would (EDV1+EDVF)/2 work?15:40
Estel_it calibrate *only* if it is 15 seconds straight below edv115:40
Estel_without going above at all15:40
divVerentEstel_: I kinda don't get yet how your script works :P15:40
divVerentall it does is display stuff, possibly in a loop15:40
Estel_Pali, haven't your promised to add gconf that would make it suerr configurrable and require reboot after change? ;)15:40
divVerentso we first charge fully, check that the battery agrees it's fully charged15:41
Estel_divVerent,  no loop15:41
divVerentand then merely discharge15:41
Estel_ah15:41
Estel_divVerent,  it's not mine15:41
Palinow I do not know what is needed15:41
Estel_it's DocScrutinizer05's15:41
divVerentoh right, shadowj wrote it15:41
divVerentshadowjk*15:41
Palibetter, write all info to (wiki) page15:41
Paliand then I change code in dsme15:41
Estel_Pali, ok, lets explain it slowly and in one line, so gimme a 30 seconds:15:41
Paliand hald addon bme15:41
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: no, I wrote it15:41
divVerentanyway... to me this script looks like it does "nothing at all", so basically letting the battery fully charge, then fully discharge until auto power down does the very same15:41
divVerentI am referring to this one15:42
kerionot quite15:42
divVerentbq27200.sh script by shadowjk - place it wherever You want (i suggest /usr/bin, this way You may execute it by typing just "bq27200.sh", without quotes - no need for full path), and chmod +x it.15:42
divVerentor is that you15:42
DocScrutinizer05no15:42
divVerentall actions this script ever does is i2cget, there is a killall to bme_RX-51 that is commented out15:43
DocScrutinizer05this script doen't calibrate though15:43
divVerentit looks more like it just shows info about the battery's own calibration15:43
DocScrutinizer05it just displays values of bq2720015:43
Estel_Pali, what we need is user configurable treeshold, period. Some users may encounter GSM modem problems even slightly above edv1, and they could just make treeshold higher. Others, like me, don't have problems even @ 2.900 mV, so would set it lower, to gain most from battery15:43
divVerentI actually don't believe its output at all ;)15:43
Estel_otherwise, if you want to do soemthing around edv1, you must, sadly, mimic bq27x00 calibration logic, which is "calibrate, if voltage is at or below edv1 for 15 seconds straigh. If it goes above edv1, reset timer"15:44
DocScrutinizer05then why do you pester us?15:44
divVerentLast Measured Discharge: 1713 mAh15:44
divVerentit's above the design capacity15:44
divVerentI want to learn how to calibrate the battery right :P15:44
DocScrutinizer05~bq-calibrate15:44
infobotit has been said that bq-calibrate is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh15:44
Estel_divVerent,  this output is bogus, due to fact, that bq chip at reset is 2056, and with every calibration it goes down by no more than some value15:45
divVerentAH... yes, this script looks like a plan :P15:45
Estel_so you, accidentaly, calibrated it once, so it went to 1700 mAh, but is still far from truth15:45
DocScrutinizer05Pali: Estel_: or just check for bq27200 finishing calibration cycle before shutting down device15:45
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: is there a way to figure out if bq27200 would've finished a calibration cycle if there was a VDQ?15:46
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  good idea top but user configurable is always better. BTW, how to check finished calibration, reliably?15:46
Estel_it would require complicated logic involving vdq, edv1 etc15:46
kerioedv1 flag15:46
DocScrutinizer05~bq-calibrate15:46
infobotsomebody said bq-calibrate was http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh15:46
Estel_as vdq can go from 1 to 0 without calibrating, too15:47
kerioinstead of voltage below edv1 register15:47
DocScrutinizer05hmmm, whenever it does, it's safe to shutdown15:47
kerio...we could use the edv1 flag, that's only set after the possible calibration has already happened15:47
divVerentand this bq-calibrate script only needs to be run once?15:47
Estel_erm, butg edv1 flag need to be for 15 seconds straigh, or we go back to point 115:47
Pali-ETOOBIGIRCLOG15:47
divVerent(normally, that is)15:47
kerioEstel_: afaik the *flag* is only set whenever the conditions for a calibration are met15:47
Palibetter write all to one place (e.g. wiki page), parsing irc log is hard now :-)15:48
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: once every 32 cycles15:48
keriodivVerent: eeh, for a first calibration you probably need two or three cycles15:48
Estel_Pali, ok, I get your reasoning for wiki page. Why can't it be just TMO post in bme replacement thread? :P15:48
divVerentok15:48
kerioand yeah, you need a calibration once in a while15:48
divVerentso what this script does, is basically inhibit the auto power down which the bme daemon might do too early, thwarting the auto calibration?15:48
Paliwiki is editable by more people, tmo post only by author15:48
Estel_and if wikip which page? does it exist already?15:48
Estel_Pali, ok15:48
divVerentand this i2c stuff disables "emergency charging" whatever that is...15:49
keriodivVerent: not only that, it also restarts the charging15:49
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DocScrutinizer05divVerent: and, as kerio said, first time you want to run it multiple times until LMD doesn't change anymore15:49
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keriodivVerent: it's meant to be run overnight15:49
Estel_create new page for discussions about bme, or use ecisting one, Pali?15:49
Estel_s/ecisting/existing/15:49
infobotEstel_ meant: create new page for discussions about bme, or use existing one, Pali?15:49
Estel_and if the latter, which one it is15:49
Palicreate new for discussion about bme replacement15:49
Estel_OK15:49
divVerentnow out of interest... apparently these i2c commands inhibit charging15:50
divVerenti.e. you run this calibration script while connected to the charger15:50
DocScrutinizer05yes15:50
Estel_will split one in a few minutes, just don't expect beautiful formatting, doing it from device15:50
divVerentor does stopping bme do the inhibit-charging stuff?15:50
DocScrutinizer05both15:50
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: can you confirm that the edv1 *flag* behaves as we'd expect?15:51
DocScrutinizer05stopping bme does inhibit normal charhing, but not emergency charging15:51
DocScrutinizer05what do you *expect*? ;-)15:51
divVerenthehe... funny, emergency charging is a fun concept :P15:51
keriothat it signals a finished calibration15:51
divVerentand "fastcharger" as mentioned by the script is basically the nokia power supply?15:52
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keriodivVerent: yes15:53
divVerentspeaking of charging... is it possible to charge the n900 with anything but the original charger or a powered on PC?15:54
DocScrutinizer05well, seems my calibration script does exactly that15:54
divVerentall my USB power supplies I have didn't work15:54
DocScrutinizer05kerio: ^^^15:54
kerioand does it work?15:54
kerio:D15:54
divVerentalso, the iPhone power supply didn't work, and the iPhone itself is similarily picky ;)15:55
DocScrutinizer05kerio: you tell us, I wrote that script for you iirc15:56
kerioi've seen it work15:56
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kerioEstel_: please make sure that you mention the fact that the EDV1 *flag* would work correctly for calibration15:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: is the flag set even if we're not doing a VDQ?15:57
DocScrutinizer05but honestly, why doesn't bme-repl wait for edvf before shutdown?15:57
kerioDocScrutinizer05: some folks report problems with the gsm modem browning out15:57
kerioand only working properly after a reboot15:57
DocScrutinizer05kerio: (flag set) yes15:58
divVerentah, I see... Apple uses a different way to detect "dumb" chargers15:58
divVerentthan the micro usb charging spec15:58
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divVerentwhat was the POINT of that EU regulation again, when Apple can freely ignore it?15:58
DocScrutinizer05divVerent: indeed15:58
keriodivVerent: apple also has tv out adapters that are more powerful than the n90015:58
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divVerentI mean, wasn't the only reason why Apple can keep its charger that it has an USB port, and the EU guys think it CAN thus charge the micro USB devices via a micro USB cable?15:59
divVerentwhich obviously isn't true15:59
DocScrutinizer05USB cert specs added apple's way as a valid alternative15:59
divVerentAH, i see15:59
divVerentso they basically allowed two kinds of charger detection15:59
divVerentand a single charger can't possibly support both15:59
DocScrutinizer05yep15:59
Estel_heeeey, bme-replacement just shut down my defvice at edv1 *DESPITE* having bq2415x and bq27x00 UNLOADED for ages! Pali, wtf?15:59
DocScrutinizer05~lart usb-cert16:00
* infobot resizes usb-cert's terminal to 40x2416:00
keriohm, which is apple's way?16:00
divVerentbut does that at least mean the N900 will charge with virtually any Android-device charger?16:00
Estel_haven't you said that it should let it go 'till end of power?16:00
divVerentkerio: http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/icharge.html16:00
PaliEstel_, rx51 battery can report battery voltage too16:00
divVerentfound this16:00
divVerentbasically, two fixed voltages on the data ports16:00
Palior your HW turned device off16:01
DocScrutinizer05kerio: some resistor dividers on D+ and D- that apply voltage of 1/3 and 2/3 of VBUS, iirc16:01
keriohm, that way means that you can specify how much the device should draw16:01
* kerio feels kinda leaning towards apple's way... :s16:01
DocScrutinizer05yep16:01
Estel_Pali,  oh shit, so i should unload three modulesp including rx51 too?16:02
Estel_or more?16:02
Estel_no, it wasn't hardware shutdown for sure16:02
DocScrutinizer05then there's even a third method: resistor from ID to GND16:02
Palinothing more is used16:02
kerioEstel_: `stop bme`16:02
kerioduh16:02
Estel_kerio, doesn't work with bme replacement16:03
keriosure it does16:03
Palino16:03
keriohaven't you read /etc/event.d/bme?16:03
Estel_BloodRose:~# stop bme16:03
Palibme is only loading drivers at startup and ignore blacklist16:03
Estel_Job not changed: BME16:03
Estel_kerio, are you even using replacement? .P16:03
Palibme is now only upstart task16:03
Estel_or still using bme and just thinking that you use replacement? :P16:04
kerio._.16:04
Paliupstart task = simple script16:04
kerioi thought it had a way to also unload the modules16:04
Palikerio, it is not possible16:04
Estel_other symptoms, like loading and unloading bq27x00 resulting in reboot in your case, would suggest you still have old bme16:04
DocScrutinizer05if replacement doesn't come with proper jobfile in /etc/events.d/* then it's crap16:04
DocScrutinizer05;-)16:04
Palibecause task finish when script finish16:04
PaliDocScrutinizer05, it comes with proper file16:04
Paliupstart is crap in this way16:05
Estel_Pali, so one need to unload THREE modules - bq2415x, bq27x00, and rx51, to temporaly stop bme replacement from shutting device down? or more?16:05
Palibtw, and proper way is to unblacklist modules & remove upstart file16:05
Estel_it just deleted my work on wiki page, so I'm going to start from scratch :P16:06
PaliEstel_, yes16:06
kerioi thought there was no automatic module loading on the n90016:06
Estel_Pali, thanks16:06
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ack16:06
Palikerio, there is automatic module loading by udev16:06
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ack, for first half (unblacklist), not though for "remove upstart file"16:06
PaliDocScrutinizer05, bme daemon was moved to kernel16:07
Paliso there is no bme daemon16:07
Paliso no daemon started by upstart16:07
DocScrutinizer05upstart job file should take care to *configure* sysfs nodes to do proper charging, and should stop charging via same sysfs nodes on `stop bme`16:07
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Palinot possible16:07
kerioDocScrutinizer05: `stop bme` doesn't stop charging on stock maemo16:08
Paliupstart does not support it16:08
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  but we don't want to mimic bme, as proper way is to do it in kernel?16:08
kerioit disables any control of bq2415x16:08
kerioPali: are you sure there's no way to also provide a "stop script" with upstart tasks? :(16:08
PaliDocScrutinizer05, upstart support 1) regular daemons 2) single scripts which start when you call "start script"16:08
Palikerio, yes16:08
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Estel_but, one can prepare own script that unload all modules16:09
Estel_and another one that load them again16:09
DocScrutinizer05and no single scripts that get started on `stop service` ?16:09
Estel_for user, it is equivalent to calling single command, then16:09
PaliDocScrutinizer05, yes16:09
Estel_hehe, same ideas ;P)16:09
PaliDocScrutinizer05, because stop is used only for killing daemons16:09
DocScrutinizer05*shrug*16:09
Paliand we do not have bme daemon process anymore16:09
DocScrutinizer05who cares?16:10
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Estel_~bq-calibration16:10
Paliupstart :D16:10
fantasma_anyone know where i can downlosd mp3s for free16:10
DocScrutinizer05Pali: then give upstart a daemon to kill16:10
Estel_fantasma, check myspace, some artists publish their mp3's for free, though .ogg is better16:10
Estel_~bq-calibrate16:10
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, bq-calibrate is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh16:10
florianmp3s are harder, but /dev/urandom has great wavs ;)16:11
Estel_infobot, bq-calibrate is also http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1053809&postcount=84616:11
infobotokay, Estel_16:11
PaliDocScrutinizer05, that daemon must be started by upstart by same config file16:11
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  is it proper way to mess with factoids?16:11
keriocreativecommons.org also lists freely-distributable music16:11
Estel_florian,  lol :)16:11
DocScrutinizer05fantasma_: on russian servers, and don't ask here please16:11
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  why, many legal creative commons out there :P16:11
kerioPali: i distinctly remember seeing some upstart events have a "stop" section16:12
Estel_and he is obviously trolling, anyway16:12
keriois that called after the running process is TERMed?16:12
fantasma_anyone know where i can downlosd mp3s for free16:12
Estel_just ban him already ;)16:12
Palikerio, in upstart there is "pre-stop" section which is called before killing daemon16:12
Palibut if daemon is not running, then nothing is called16:12
jacekowskifantasma_: you can download them on the internet16:12
Estel_it's a bot, or bored person16:12
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: looks ok (factoids)16:12
* Estel_ nods16:12
elrazadis it possible to use burst mode for best picture like samsung on maemo n900?thank you.16:13
PaliDocScrutinizer05, fake solution which doing ubuntu is: create new upstart file "script-stop" which do that job and is started as "start stript-stop"16:13
Estel_elrazad,  yes, with fCam16:13
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Estel_there is 4x or 8x burst mode, although "burst" is quite slow, keep that in mind16:14
Estel_don't expect to get 8 pictures in 0,5 second16:14
Estel_think rather about 2-3 seconds for 816:15
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I suggest another approach: a script that gets started by upstart job/control file, does all the needed sysfs setup for charging, and has a `trap "stop-charging" EXIT` that gets executed when upstarts kills this "daemon"16:15
kerioPali: anyway, i think that we eventually condensed all the discussion about when to shutdown as "configurable, defaulting to EDV1 *flag*"16:15
Estel_kerio, nope16:15
Estel_edv1 flag itself doesn't calibrate16:15
kerioso?16:15
Estel_it need to be for 15 seconds16:15
keriono, you're wrong :)16:15
Estel_without going to 0 again16:15
kerioEDV1 flag is set when the voltage is below EDV1 for 15 seconds or whatever16:16
Estel_ough, is yes, it would be easy approach16:16
kerio*if16:16
Estel_but user configurable gconf as addition is a must :)16:16
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I do not want to have running some FAKE processes...16:16
DocScrutinizer05why not?16:16
kerioDocScrutinizer05: bme isn't part of maemo semantics, imo16:16
Paliwhy?16:16
Palibtw, there is no /sys init code for bme replacement16:17
keriothings that rely on "stop bme" will probably not work properly with the bme replacement anyway16:17
Paliall doing kernel when loading bq modules16:17
Estel_Pali, so summing it up (I'll write wiki article AGAIN in a hour or so...) - you need to check for edv1 FLAG, not voltage, and shutdown device few secdonds later16:17
Estel_as edv1 flag is set after edv1 voltage was for 15 seconds16:18
kerioi wonder how to make my script work now, though16:18
DocScrutinizer05kerio: upstart however is the standard way to start and stop services on upstart systems. charging as well as hostmode/vboost are such services16:18
keriowithout checking every second16:18
Estel_but please, please, allow gconf setting of limit manually16:18
Estel_too16:18
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, not services, but daemons16:18
elrazadEstel_: thank you16:19
Paliand hostmode/vboost is not daemon16:19
DocScrutinizer05Pali: not daemons but services16:19
Paliupstart is for 1) starting/stopping daemons and 2) starting scripts16:19
Estel_hm, DocScrutinizer05, but it would complicate automatic usb hostmode like Pali's? kernel approach seems more sane, less bugs-prone and easier to understand16:19
Estel_elrazad,  you're welcome :)16:19
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: automatic kernel based hostmode? wtf??16:20
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Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  see usbmode16:20
Estel_~usbmode16:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: fwiw, the result of "stop bme" isn't quite clear, even in stock maemo16:20
PaliDocScrutinizer05, not services but daemons, look into upstart code16:20
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, really upstart does not support services... so this cannot be fixed on maemo (or any upstart based system)...16:21
PaliI played with upstart more times, not possible16:21
Estel_infobot, usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85658&highlight=usbmode16:22
infobotokay, Estel_16:22
DocScrutinizer05/etc/events.d/shutdown - a *deamon*?16:22
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Estel_infobot, no, usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8565816:22
infobotokay, Estel_16:22
Estel_~usbmode16:22
infobothmm... usbmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8565816:22
DocScrutinizer05pin-query - a *deamon*?16:22
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, daemons and tasks16:23
Palisee irc log16:23
DocScrutinizer05so a service is no task?16:23
Estel_aka scripts, but not services16:23
Palitask is something which can be started and is immediately stopped16:23
DocScrutinizer05uhuh16:24
PaliDocScrutinizer05, you cannot call to stop stopped task16:24
Paliso it is not service16:24
Estel_ubuntu goes around it by "start foobar-stop" but it's lame16:24
Estel_and we don't want it in maemo16:24
DocScrutinizer05so whatever your definition, a shellscript that sets up and also stops charging is either of both16:24
Paliand do want to start and stop charging immedtiately??16:25
Palithis is what will do upstart task16:25
Paliupstart daemon: start, run, stop16:25
Paliupstart task: start, stop16:25
Paliso when you tell upstart to start task it will do: run start script and then run stop script16:26
Estel_file a bug against upstart (joking)16:26
PaliDocScrutinizer05 ^^^^16:26
Paliso bme replacement charging is *not* upsatrt task16:26
DocScrutinizer05sorry that starts to be fapping with definitions pulled outa somebody's back end16:27
PaliSysV init daemon calling stop script always16:27
Paliupstart init daemon calling stop script only if daemon is still running16:28
DocScrutinizer05tbh I don't give a F about this stuff being called a daemon, a task, a process, or a frablldrpft16:28
deepyI shall name my next variable into frablldrpft16:28
jaskapft16:28
PaliDocScrutinizer05, upstart does not support what you want16:28
Paliyou can report bug to ubunut (upstart maintainer), that is all :D16:29
DocScrutinizer05bs, obviously it does, it's just pali don't want a fake process16:29
DocScrutinizer05because that fake process doesn't qualify for dunnowhat16:30
Paliyes, because bme replacement goal is to remove BME process16:31
DocScrutinizer05says who?16:31
PaliI16:31
Paliwhy on the earth there must be some process which doing nothing??16:31
Palithen it is stupid implementation16:32
DocScrutinizer05because upstart can't execute a script when calling `stop foobar`16:32
Estel_but why we want it anyway? the fake process doing nothing?a16:32
Paliand why we need it??16:32
DocScrutinizer05when there's no such process16:32
Estel_we can have a script that unload modules and load them, on user's discretion16:33
DocScrutinizer05to run proper setup & teardown of charging16:33
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Estel_erm, but it works already via sysfs entries?16:33
Paliloading and unloading kernel drivers should not be done by users...16:33
Estel_I've set mine up to always charge at 1250 mA, no need for setting it manually16:33
PaliDocScrutinizer05, setup is in kernel16:33
DocScrutinizer05that's shit16:34
Palikernel drivers should be loaded by some hotplug daemon ...16:34
Estel_Pali,  but if user want, he can prepare his script to be run as root, it's free choice. if we need to stop bme replacement for any reason, like calibration till bugs are fixed16:34
DocScrutinizer05yeah, battery hotplug, suuuure16:35
Paliwe have blacklisted it... which is not proper way16:35
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I mean hotplug of kernel device structures16:35
kerioDocScrutinizer05: by "takedown of charger" you mean "stop telling anything to bq24k and default to emergency charge"?16:35
Estel_unloading modules does just that16:36
DocScrutinizer05by takedown of charger i mean "echo stop >/sysfs/*/bq24150/mode"16:36
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keriobut that's not what `stop bme` in stock maemo does!16:38
DocScrutinizer05yes, it basically is exactly that16:39
DocScrutinizer05it stops bme from writing any values to bq24150, incl tickling watchdog16:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: off mode in bq24k-charger is actually off16:40
kerioaka it keeps petting the watchdog16:40
DocScrutinizer05that's a bug then16:40
Paliyou can also turn off watchdog by some sysfs entry16:41
Palibut I do not remember name :-)16:41
DocScrutinizer05sysnodemodereg[bit:bit]valuessemantics16:41
DocScrutinizer05watchdogr/w0[7]"reset" (w)write 1 to TMR_RST to reset watchdog, stops auto16:41
DocScrutinizer05**stops auto** is the key here16:41
DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.cloud-7.de/bq24150-sysnode.spec.txt16:41
Palisysfs node name is "timer"16:42
Paliecho off > timer16:42
DocScrutinizer05this is not a timer, but meh16:42
Paliecho auto > timer16:42
PaliDocScrutinizer05, in datasheet it is under "timer" name16:42
DocScrutinizer05the datasheet is not written for linux16:43
DocScrutinizer05in linux a timer has a clear meaning16:43
DocScrutinizer05this however is a watchdog, no timer16:43
Paliyou can send patch to upstream for discusstion :-)16:44
DocScrutinizer05you can tell e.g. from the fact that this register doesn't provide any time values at all16:44
DocScrutinizer05it's clearly a watchdog which you can reset and switch to "auto" mode (you can't enable/disable it due to the way the chip works) - however you can't read or write any time values to it16:46
DocScrutinizer05so it's no timer for any meaning of timer as used in linux world16:46
DocScrutinizer05and stopping bme is exactly this basically: not continuing to tickle the timer16:47
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DocScrutinizer05while *starting* bme should write some user defined values from /etc/our-new-great-charging to sysnodes of bq24150 to configure it for proper charging16:51
DocScrutinizer05we don't want to rely on kernel hardcoded defaults or module loadtime parameters for that16:52
DocScrutinizer05and a shellscript 10liner that does exactly this on upstart start newbme and upstart stop newbme while lingering around doing nothing the rest of the time is just fine in my book16:53
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DocScrutinizer05nobody ever (except pali a few minutes ago) claimed that the topmost goal of bme-replavcement was to get rif of any and all bme processes in userland16:54
DocScrutinizer05to get rid*16:55
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PaliDocScrutinizer05: to get rid off bme process which doing nothing16:56
DocScrutinizer05original goal of bme-replacement been to gain control over bq24150 and allow switching to charging, boostmode, whatnot else and stop nonsense like premature shutdown16:56
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: original goal was to have FOSS BME replacement16:57
DocScrutinizer05Pali: the process *is* doing something, on startup and on exit16:57
DocScrutinizer05no, that's absolutely the least goal in this whole effort, freemangordon16:57
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kerioPali: what are the goals of bme replacement?16:57
DocScrutinizer05since FOSS in itself is an achievement only for Mr RMS16:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you may check the (c) in libbmeipc and hald-addon-bme16:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I guess the author knows better than you what his goal was16:58
DocScrutinizer05so only fools and RMS are doing something just to tag a FOSS label on it16:59
freemangordonthe point was about the original goal16:59
freemangordonnot about your vision of what fool is ;)16:59
DocScrutinizer05the author of what? of the original idea of bme replacement?16:59
DocScrutinizer05that's me then16:59
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freemangordonthe author is the one that writes some code16:59
freemangordonas we speak for BME replacement...17:00
DocScrutinizer05I was talking about original bme replacement effort though, not about original bme replacement code17:00
freemangordonoh, right17:00
DocScrutinizer05in this case the effort predates the code by far17:01
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: original goal as I know it is to have FOSS replacement to be used other OSes17:02
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freemangordonbecause BME was/is one of the biggest obstacles17:03
PaliDocScrutinizer05, goals: removing BME binary and allow charging on all systems (not only maemo), auto charging in kernel, switching to boost mode for hostmode, allow to change any bq24x property via sysfs, allow bq calibrate17:04
freemangordon:nod:17:04
PaliDocScrutinizer05, something missing?17:05
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: again incorrect. while mer had some need for a FOSS bme replacement, the major drive came from hostmode17:05
DocScrutinizer05Pali: sounds correct17:05
Palimy goal is *not* introduce new fake process because upstart is stupid17:05
Paliyou can create your own script which set bq values as you want (disable, wd, turn of charger, whatever...), but default behaviour is to charge battery when charger is connected17:07
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: to port maemo to other platforms, we have way larger obstacles than just bme17:07
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Palibetter: port hildon-desktop to other platforms17:07
DocScrutinizer05wtf got hildon desktop to do with bme?17:08
Paliwhy we using maemo is not because of nokia daemons like bme, dsme, ...17:08
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DocScrutinizer05speak for yourself17:09
PaliI bet that there is no man who using maemo because of BME and DSME17:09
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm not exactly eager to use a maemo that's missing both17:10
DocScrutinizer05and just a hildon-desktop ported to $randomOS won't lure me in either17:11
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DocScrutinizer05btw DSME is a poor example since it's already open source17:12
DocScrutinizer05maybe use mce rather17:12
DocScrutinizer05even mce plugins17:12
DocScrutinizer05since mce kinda open as well17:13
DocScrutinizer05partially17:13
DocScrutinizer05I'm using maemo beause it works ( - with some closed blobs -), not *despite* it works with some closed blobs17:15
DocScrutinizer05before I used SHR/openmoko despite it did not really work despite some closed blobs e.g for gfx17:17
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you missed my point. I was not talking about porting maemo to other devices, but porting other OSes to n90017:17
DocScrutinizer05so how did I miss the point?17:18
freemangordon<DocScrutinizer05> freemangordon: to port maemo to other platforms, we have way larger obstacles than just bme17:18
DocScrutinizer05so doesn't same apply for porting $OS to N900?17:19
DocScrutinizer05and wtf would we bother about other OS? This is #maemo17:19
freemangordonhehe17:19
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freemangordonI am discussing BME, ont $OS17:19
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freemangordon*not17:19
DocScrutinizer05:shrug:17:19
DocScrutinizer05[2013-03-07 16:02:57] <freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: original goal as I know it is to have FOSS replacement to be used other OSes17:20
freemangordonso?17:20
freemangordonI am not allowed to write that on #maemo, or what?17:21
DocScrutinizer05to be used other OSes  !=  not $OS17:21
DocScrutinizer05you lost me on what you wanna state17:22
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: BTW sorry for the typo, you should read that as "to be used with other OSes"17:22
freemangordonhowever, I am on my way home, bbl17:22
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ack on possibility to write scripts to set up bme-replacement different to what it comes up with by default. Basically that's been exactly whyt I suggested17:23
DocScrutinizer05what*17:23
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DocScrutinizer05cmt for example starts automatically when battery inserted / device powered on, then gets configured by NOLO, then again by linux cmt drivers, then a third time by rtcom-or-whatever from userland17:25
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DocScrutinizer05it's not like we got only one config/init for a subsystem and that would be mutually exclusive with any other machinery bringing up and tearing down a service/resource17:27
DocScrutinizer05when bq24150/bme-repl comes up on module load just fine and in auto-charge mode, that's pretty fine. That doesn't mean we couldn't handle that resource in a more specialized manner later on which is in line with standard concept of resource handling in linux for a particular system17:29
DocScrutinizer05in SHR resp FSO this would be fsodeviced, on upstart systems it seems that would be upstart as long as no better middleware around. The middleware been bme before, now we might consider replacing that braindead "middleware" bme by a better concept and a better middleware designed around upstart17:32
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DocScrutinizer05alternative: vastly augment hald-addon-bme to support all the needed functions in bme-repl and thus take over the role of resource-handling middleware17:50
DocScrutinizer05as a general rule there should be generally only *pne* system using sysfs nodes, and that is the middleware that takes care of arbiting the resource to other consumers17:52
DocScrutinizer05*one*17:52
DocScrutinizer05while it *might* (or might not, depends) be ok to _reead_ from a sysfs node (or a /dev/device) by multiple instances, it's generally a nogo to allow write access to more than one process in a system17:54
DocScrutinizer05this one process is the middleware taking care about that resource, and all other interested processes shall talk to the middleware rather than mess with sysfs nodes17:55
DocScrutinizer05so what's our middleware to switch to hostmode?17:55
DocScrutinizer05is it upstart, hald-addon-bme, $yet-to-define-other-process ?17:56
DocScrutinizer05if hald-addon-bme, what's the API? I like to know to fix/adopt H-E-N17:57
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DocScrutinizer05(btw you can tell above rationale being sound, by simply looking at sysfs node permissions)18:05
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divVerentnhaha, QCPUFreq shows a CPU temperature of 436 °C18:14
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cehtehi guess *something* is wrong there .. and lukily thats possibly not the CPU :)18:16
divVerentthe bug appears to be known... :P18:17
divVerentone thing I am not sure about in QCPUFreq is when the overclocking takes place18:18
divVerentimmediately, or only when saving the settings18:18
divVerenti.e. is it safe to just try and see how far the slider goes, or better not ;)18:19
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divVerent(I am not actually planning to overclock, I just want SmartReflex to save some mA...)18:20
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cehteheffects of smartreflex are not really proven18:25
divVerentdoes wine on ARM actually work? I thought it doesn't emulate the CPU18:26
jacekowskiit does18:26
cehtehwell meanwhile my phone works reasonable well with few days on a charge if used slightly18:26
divVerentoh, it now does? ok then18:26
jacekowskidivVerent: it's winelib18:26
jacekowskibut it's slow18:26
jacekowskiand i mean proper slow18:26
jacekowskiand has threading issues18:26
divVerentso it does emulate the CPU now... where is the emulation from, qemu?18:27
jacekowskiyep18:27
jacekowskithere is winelib as well18:27
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divVerentok, then I kinda know its performance ;)18:27
jacekowskiwhich allows to compile windows applications with no changes to the program18:27
divVerentwhat performance can be expected of dosbox? XT? 286?18:27
jacekowskifast enough18:27
divVerentnice, will try. Let's see if it runs Commander Keen ;)18:28
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divVerentis there BTW a simple command to update the sources.list.d/ file from the hildon XML stuff?18:31
divVerentoh, found it18:32
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divVerenthildon-application-manager-config update18:32
divVerentmuch better than waiting for 2 minutes for the repo list to pop up, then closing it18:32
divVerentBTW, extras-devel apparently still has "hash sum mismatch" issues, e.g. on the dosbox package18:33
freemangordonjacekowski: out of curiosity: what do you use to compile for wine on ARM?18:35
divVerenthttp://maemo.org/packages/view/wine/ BTW it says only ported windows applications compiled for ARM will work18:36
divVerentdoes this include Win8 RT binaries?18:36
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divVerenthaha, how to even USE dosbox for maemo? I cannot enter the : character, which is kinda needed for entering "C:"18:40
vi__Effects of smart reflex ARE proven!18:41
divVerent"keyb auto gr" makes : work, but swaps Y and Z ;)18:41
freemangordonvi__: hi man, long time no see :)18:41
vi__smart reflex was shown to reduce power use under load!18:41
vi__FMG!18:41
freemangordonvi__: by how much?18:42
freemangordon8%?18:42
vi__...18:42
vi__I cannot remember18:42
freemangordonhehe18:42
vi__like 10-20%18:42
vi__or something.18:42
freemangordonhmm, sounds too much to me. but ofc it depends on the device18:42
divVerent17:41:51             vi__ | smart reflex was shown to reduce power use under load!18:42
divVerentunder LOAD?18:42
vi__UNDER LOAD!18:43
divVerentI'd rather have expected it to reduce power when idle ;)18:43
freemangordon:D18:43
vi__It does feck all while idle.18:43
freemangordondivVerent: wrong18:43
divVerentwhy?18:43
divVerentdoes that mean it also undervolts at full clock speed?18:43
vi__Because the CPU is off!18:43
freemangordonbecause of the lowered voltage18:43
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freemangordonand for idle ^^^18:43
divVerentI had assumed it only undervolts when below 600 MHz18:43
freemangordonno18:43
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divVerenthehe, dosbox is not powerful enough to run The Incredible Machine ;)18:45
vi__Through relentless testing I have found for my use case maximum battery life is achieved by SR+250-720MHz overclock.18:45
divVerentwait, better battery life with some overclocking than without?18:46
divVerenthehe, TIM doesn't work well anyway, due to lack of ESC key :P18:46
vi__about the same.  Race to idle and all that.18:47
divVerent(and right mouse button)18:47
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XATRIXDocScrutinizer05: Is it ok ? http://fpaste.org/n5tu/   my chargin LED shows me green18:54
XATRIXNo charging neede18:55
XATRIXBut the CSOC says it's not full18:55
XATRIXAlso Chargin Current does18:55
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DocScrutinizer05yes, charging stopped and now battery is discharging19:25
DocScrutinizer05there's no thing in between charging and discharging19:26
DocScrutinizer05charging will kick in eventually again19:26
DocScrutinizer05though you'll not see this from LED19:27
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jacekowskifreemangordon: gcc i think19:48
jean_brathi is h-e-n is ported to nokia n919:49
jean_brat?>19:49
freemangordonjean_brat: afaik no19:49
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jean_bratis there any other usb host app which support usb keyboard/mouse integration ?19:50
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Estel_jean_brat,  no usb hostmode for harm19:50
Estel_freemangordon,  is your n950 gathering dust, too?19:51
freemangordonjean_brat: on n9? USB ost mode is not supported. AFAIK19:51
freemangordonEstel_: no19:51
Estel_right, one could keep it in foil and box = no dust...19:51
Estel_seriously? Found real life use for it?19:51
freemangordonyes19:51
Estel_mind to share?19:51
Estel_mind sharing*19:52
freemangordonEstel_: see on private19:52
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* Estel_ nods19:52
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jacekowskiPali: ping19:52
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DocScrutinizer05jean_brat: no19:52
jean_bratseriously? H W implementation issue? or the OS?19:52
Palijacekowski, pong19:53
DocScrutinizer05kernel19:53
jacekowskiPali: try uploading to garage rather than drop19:53
Paliwhere?19:53
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Paligarage.maemo.org /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle19:54
Pali?19:54
jacekowski213.128.137.2619:54
jacekowskisame folder19:54
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Palinot working19:55
jacekowskiwhat is the error this time?19:55
Palihttp://pastebin.com/4sqKXxHU19:55
PaliConnection closed by 213.128.137.2619:56
jacekowskihmm19:56
jacekowskigo back to original setup19:57
Paliscp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle: No such file or directory19:58
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jacekowskiagain20:00
jacekowskiPali: try again20:01
Paliwhich server?20:01
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Paligarage or drop?20:01
jacekowskidrop20:01
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Paliuploaded20:01
DocScrutinizer05\o/20:01
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DocScrutinizer05VCS cpu load seen quite a spike20:04
DocScrutinizer05well, not THAT much actually   http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/20:06
* Estel_ hugs jacekowski for work on fixing autobuilder20:08
jacekowskiahm20:09
jacekowskiwait a second20:09
jacekowskii've disabled cron for buildme20:09
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jacekowskibuilder1 18578 18577  0 19:11 ?        S      0:00  |           \_ /usr/bin/python -tt /usr/bin/sbdmock -r maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel -u /home/builder1/wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1.dsc20:11
Estel_divVerent,  you're doing it wrong with dosbox20:11
Estel_see dosbox thread, I've published some nice config for it there, at some point in time20:11
Estel_TIM works OK20:11
Estel_only one thing that I've found to be too slow on N900 and dosbox is system shock20:12
Estel_and it is *almost* playable20:12
Estel_with correct config20:12
Estel_heck, some people run windows 3.1 or smth via dosbox20:12
Estel_without much performance issues20:13
Estel_as for system shock, it doesn't work perfectly even on desktop's dual core @ 2.5 GHZ, so...20:13
Estel_(at least on with higher resolutions)20:13
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jacekowskiPali: https://213.128.137.26/builder/fremantle/wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1/summary.log20:16
jacekowskiPali: [2013-03-07 20:13:27] wide-dhcpv6 20080615-11.1maemo1 has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository20:16
Paliok20:16
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DocScrutinizer05eeek, NOW it's even orange20:23
DocScrutinizer05(VCS, ganglia)20:23
jacekowskiwhat was the link20:24
DocScrutinizer05http://213.128.137.6/ganglia/20:24
DocScrutinizer05already gone20:24
DocScrutinizer05builder1 had a solid spike ;-)20:24
DocScrutinizer05pretty much 100%20:25
DocScrutinizer05sooooooo... do we have a pkg wide-dhcpv6_20080615-11.1maemo1 in r.m.o_*new* now? :-D20:27
Estel_freemangordon,  since community have - finally - control over autobuilder, maybe, in long term, it would be wise to think about using linaro or smth there?20:28
Estel_more recent things, that are proven to work flawlessly on N900?20:28
Estel_or sub-thing like with arm and x86 builds now, it would, lets say, build packages with thumb as 3th variant? just idea, haven't though about feasibility20:29
freemangordonEstel_: it is not me to convince :P20:30
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DocScrutinizer05it is not us to pester *now*20:30
jacekowskithumb is an option20:31
DocScrutinizer05we're more than happy when shit starts to work as it once did20:31
DocScrutinizer05thumb indeed seems simple though20:31
Estel_of course, I don't mean doing it all at once20:32
Estel_I just tend to think with quite wider horizon, already20:32
Estel_if this shit proves to work stably, we could think about doing things that nokia prevented us20:32
Estel_like upgrading ancient components there, that blocked many great things20:33
* Estel_ entered excited user mode20:33
Estel_btw auto thumb option would help much too, instead of current pestering every maintainer about sending thumb version of program to merlin20:33
Estel_so it could be first thing to try, with caution. BTW, jacekowski, where have you learned autobuilder things?20:34
Estel_we need to start educating further generations, if you would get hit by a bus in a week time20:35
Estel_not suggesting anything :P20:35
jacekowskii've build my own autobuilder while back20:35
jacekowskiwith a bit of x-fade help20:35
jacekowskialthough, that was only buildme/sbdmock part20:35
Estel_ok, but where have you learned how to start? documentation, or just master-padawan relationship with x-fade?20:35
jacekowskii've used different repo manager20:36
Estel_I feel uneasy, when such critical things are one-man show20:36
jacekowskii've asked x-fade what he used20:36
jacekowskidownloaded packages20:36
jacekowskiread sources20:36
Estel_hm, and that was the thing that no one could try, talking about it like arcane magic? so, someone who would like to learn itp, should just download packages, read sources, and ask you, in casew of any confusion?20:37
Estel_(xonsidering that x-fade is away, you're the only one yoda around, pardon the pun)20:37
jacekowskiand20:37
jacekowskihttp://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html20:37
Estel_oh20:37
Estel_judging by name, looks like holy grail20:38
DocScrutinizer05scharfe Neuigkeiten! Ihre Bestellung mit der Bestellnummer20:38
DocScrutinizer05AUF-B-2025 wurde verschickt.20:38
jacekowskipackages ae here20:38
DocScrutinizer05Folgende Artikel liefern wir mit dieser Sendung an Sie aus:20:38
DocScrutinizer052 x B403794 Western Digital WD20NPVT Green 2TB - 2,5'' / SATA II / I.Pow20:38
jacekowskihttp://bifh.org/wiki/sbdmock20:38
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  wtf?20:39
Estel_thanks, jacekowski20:39
Estel_if you think about it, what backgound skill/knowledge would be required before starting it? or it is not much related to anything else?20:39
jacekowskihttp://vcs.maemo.org/svn/extras-cauldron/trunk/buildme/20:40
jacekowskidepends20:40
DocScrutinizer05wtf is cauldron?20:40
jacekowskisvn with all the goodies20:40
Estel_oh, I'm sure it does. I just try to assemble a required-knowledge tree, for new generations interested in keeping maemo autobuilder alive and maybe even extend it a little20:41
Estel_so thing you'ved described are highest branch, tools and documentation about autobuilder20:41
jacekowskiEstel_: my autobuilder used sbdmock + scratchbox + reprepo + buildme20:42
Estel_now I'm trying to find out leaf aka skills required, with roots being general knowledge about doing anything on linux-based system in terminal20:42
* Estel_ nods20:42
Estel_any reason why maemo's autobuilder uses different manager?20:42
jacekowskinow, maemo autobuilder is completly different beast20:42
jacekowskiit manages multiple repositories20:42
jacekowskipackage promotion20:42
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jacekowskicaching20:43
Estel_ah, yes20:43
jacekowskiand it integrates into a lot of other stuff20:43
Estel_but it should still be possible to get, mentally, hugged by one or two people, without years spend on arcane learning?20:43
jacekowskiwell, depends20:43
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jacekowskibear in mind that there was a lot more wrong with it20:44
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jacekowskifrom xen through nfs, missing mounts old config files, to autobuilder itself20:44
Estel_haha, I was just to ask what the fuck was wrong with maemo's autobuilder after/during/pre migration20:44
DocScrutinizer05more than you'd like to know20:45
jacekowskiand fixing that, requires years of arcane learning20:45
Estel_I'm impressed that you guys managed to catch most of it in so short time frame since starting20:45
DocScrutinizer05all kudos to jacekowski and xes20:46
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DocScrutinizer05and warfare of course20:46
Estel_I just hope that after fixing it, our student magicians will have enough time to learn it piece by piece, before next catastrophe requiring master level of magic20:46
jacekowskiwe have slaves?20:46
* DocScrutinizer05 declares those 3 for maemo community member heroes of the month20:46
Estel_thats why I'm thinking about motivating someone (or myself) to start learning it early :P20:47
Estel_jacekowski,  haha20:47
Estel_jacekowski, don't get me wrong, I don't mean getting "rid" of you - I just imagine, that you may be, sometimes, too ocuppied with real life thing or other projects, to maintain maemoms autobuilder20:48
Estel_even leaving bus incident alone20:48
Estel_so it would be good to have someone else, or more people, that knpw this shit, it seems to be niche in Maemo community20:48
Estel_to date, I know only about you and x-fade, as for people that know how this shit works, and x-fade is MIA20:49
Estel_one man shows are dangerous thing, and I'm perfectly sure Council will be interested to secure maemo's back here20:49
jacekowskii only knew how half of this shit works 3 days ago20:49
Estel_:)20:50
Estel_could you be bothered to document things, that you have learned and wasn't in documentation, using the fact that memories are still fresh?20:50
Estel_you know, at least some spells in spellbook20:51
Estel_in case you or anyone else would need to fix it again in 2 years time, when no one will remember (including you) how it was exactly done20:51
jacekowskii've had no look at it i knew that buildme looks for stuff in one folder and if it sees .dsc file there, it starts building stuff using sbdmock20:51
jacekowskiehh20:51
jacekowskis/i've had no look at it //20:52
jacekowskiand that goes back to another folder and repo management takes it from there20:52
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jacekowskiand repo management was the real problem20:53
jacekowski(and there are some kinks that i'll have to iron out)20:53
Estel_I'm dully noting, I'll try to create wiki page about things to start when aiming at learning autobuilder20:54
Estel_including links you've provided, and mirrors of those things, and...20:55
Estel_now, the question is - how we can ensure that you have a vine/beer/whatever on us?20:55
Estel_(aka donation page or whatever)20:56
Estel_(don't expect fortune, I just thing that some people, like me, would like to show appreciation, by a small donation)20:57
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DocScrutinizer05north Korea W*T*F?!21:05
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DocScrutinizer05what does this furuncle on the world*s anus DimKlongILL or what's his name think who he is?21:07
DocScrutinizer05err, sorry, no politics21:07
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n900-dk_any idea how to spot battery eating app?21:22
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keriojacekowski: does the new RMO use reprepro then?21:23
jacekowskinope21:24
kerio:(21:24
kerioso no hope for pdiff support?21:25
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jacekowskiwhy?21:25
kerioidk21:26
keriois there hope?21:26
jacekowskipdiffs are tough21:27
jacekowskifor many reasons21:27
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jacekowskibut possible21:27
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Estel_now here goes serious question, although, unrelated to repos:21:28
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Estel_I need to find a file on my device. It is text file (config), that contains, somewhere in it's content, a phrase "xbindkeys" without quotes21:29
jacekowskigrep21:29
kerioEstel_: `grep -R xbindkeys /path/to/untarred/backup` on your computer21:30
kerio:)21:30
Estel_hehe, my question was about most effective way to search for it on device21:30
Estel_as regular grep takes ages21:30
keriomeh, why bother21:30
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Estel_maybe some optimizations via modifiers, like filtering out files bigger than something?21:31
Estel_or non-text ones?21:31
keriohow do you find out which files are text files? run "file" on them? :)21:31
DocScrutinizer05umm, that gets funny then21:31
Estel_kerio, because many times my N900 is with me instead my notebook21:31
Estel_(as for why bother)21:31
jacekowskiget a charger21:32
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  yea, thats why I've asked, after reading ton of manualp,s mind you21:32
keriojacekowski: haha21:32
Estel_s/manualp,s/manuals/21:32
infobotEstel_ meant: DocScrutinizer05,  yea, thats why I've asked, after reading ton of manuals mind you21:32
kerioEstel_: you have absolutely *no* general idea of where it could be?21:32
DocScrutinizer05get proper find first21:32
Estel_kerio, absolutely, but I may risk assumpting that it is soemwhere on root, and run search excluding root later, if that fails21:33
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  maemo's find is borked? 0_o21:33
kerio~messybox21:33
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils21:33
kerioit's not borked, it works fine, but it doesn't have all the options gnu find has21:33
keriofor instance, iirc it doesn't have -xdev21:33
Estel_-power one too?21:33
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DocScrutinizer05then something like find / -ipath <somepath> -filetype <sometipe> -iname "*cfg" -size -NNNN -exec 'grep xbindkeys {} ; ' shoud so21:34
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  thanks, will test it21:35
Estel_iname cfg must go away, as I don't know if it have cfg extension, i just know that it's plan text config file :(21:35
kerioit'll still take quite some time21:35
keriothe n900's io is kinda slow, you just gotta accept it21:36
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DocScrutinizer05you'll need to adapt the find parameters anyway. I already spotted two typos/errors I made21:36
DocScrutinizer05man find21:36
Estel_I'm setting up N900 (protected in otterbox) as first computer for my 4 years old son... He asked me for one since a year or so, and I promised that if I manage to repair one of damaged ones that I have, it will be his :) just repaired one21:36
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  sure, have this man opened anyway21:36
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Estel_now, there was a thing to run some program as *user* everytime device boots21:37
Estel_/etc/event.d/ runs as root, sadly...21:37
kerioa .desktop file21:37
Estel_not sadly21:37
Estel_but sadly in this case21:37
kerioalso su user command :P21:37
Estel_very funny, i need it to be done automagically21:37
Estel_xbindkeys is quite picky21:37
DocScrutinizer05meh, use a autostart .desktop21:38
kerioindeed21:38
Estel_it just won't wok properly from event.d, rest assured21:38
kerioalso, wouldn't xbindkeys also work as root?21:38
kerioDESKTOP=:0.0 xbindkeys21:38
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Estel_not for my use case :P21:38
Estel_autostart desktop?21:38
keriorunning shit with weird environments is what unix is all about!21:38
DocScrutinizer05beware, autostart .desktop REstarts processes21:38
keriothat, and using `write` to mess up your friend's screen session21:39
Estel_the thing is that vi once told me conveinent place to put it, so it's executed on every startup, as user, properly, but I can't remember it for a life of mine, and vi doesnt catch pings21:39
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  hm21:39
Estel_I have no slightest idea about autostart .desktop's in maemo, need to read about it21:40
DocScrutinizer05for one time X related progs, it's probably xsession you want to tweak (iirc)21:40
Estel_may be, where it is located?21:40
Estel_may it be*21:40
Estel_(C enya) :P21:40
kerioi'm not entirely sure maemo uses a standard xsession setup21:40
kerioand also make sure to not bork it21:41
DocScrutinizer05sorry, been a guess off top of my head, nfc for maemo21:41
keriobecause it'll mess your booting up21:41
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  no worries, will search for that name pattern21:41
kerioon normal unices, it's ~/.Xsession21:41
Estel_kerio, sure, I'll just find if such file have "xbindkeys" somewhere on my device21:41
kerioer, .xsession21:41
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Estel_/etc/event.d/xsession21:42
Estel_lol21:42
DocScrutinizer05I looked into this problem several times since N81021:42
DocScrutinizer05never could come up with a really decent solution21:42
Estel_I'll remember to share this ugly hack, if I manage to re-find it21:43
Estel_it wasn't tweaking /etc/event.d/xsession, sadly21:43
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DocScrutinizer05    exec su - user /etc/X11/Xsession21:44
keriolooks like /etc/X11/Xsession.d is the place21:45
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Paliuse this in upstart: exec su user -c "exec <command>"21:45
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DocScrutinizer05drwxr-xr-x  2 root     root        1912 26. Dez 16:01 Xsession.d                                                                                                                            â”‚21:46
DocScrutinizer05Pali: ugly21:46
PaliDocScrutinizer05, otherwise it will have upstart side effects21:46
DocScrutinizer05/etc/X11/Xsession.d21:46
Palihm, this should work too21:47
DocScrutinizer05somewhere around 87my-awesome-app21:47
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DocScrutinizer05since:21:48
DocScrutinizer05-rwxr-xr-x  1 root     root         200  16. Okt 2009 60mission-control                                                                                                                     │21:48
DocScrutinizer05│-rwxr-xr-x  1 root     root          72  02. Okt 2009 65hildon-sv-notification-daemon                                                                                                       │21:48
Paliah, bad news, ubuntu is going to use some parts of systemd...21:49
NIN101Pali: URL?21:50
Paliis there any list of linux distributions which 1) now not using systemd and 2) will never use systemd ?21:50
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DocScrutinizer0502maemo-launcer and 42maemo-launcher are an awesome pair XP21:50
NIN101gentoo, debian...21:51
DocScrutinizer05is there a list of cheap killers?21:51
NIN101+you often have the choice still...21:51
PaliNIN101: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTMyMDE21:51
Estel_thanks guys21:51
DocScrutinizer05yw21:51
PaliNIN101, how about debian & systemd?21:52
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: ping - you having trouble with and app?21:52
Estel_hm, it's a pity, btw, that I can't check what started process, that is still runing (xbindkeys that is running since start)21:52
Paliare you sure that debian will not move to systemd too?21:52
kerioprobably you, manually :P21:52
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NIN101not that soon probably + you have the choise there I am sure.21:52
Estel_nope :P21:52
kerioNIN101: not quite, udev is meant to work tightly coupled with systemd21:53
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NIN101kick udev then.21:53
Paliand what to use instead udev??21:53
Estel_Pali,  canonical suck, time to admit it... hm, does Arch use systemd?21:53
NIN101mdev21:53
PaliEstel_, yes21:53
Estel_btw what's the problem with systemd?21:53
PaliI think arch was first distriubtion which started using systemd21:54
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NIN101dbus-dependency, the author.21:54
PaliEstel_, not possible to debug it21:54
Estel_create your own distro, it's joy of foss/linux :D21:54
Palithis is why I hate systemd21:54
PaliNIN101, mdev is only subset of udev and does not support anything which is needed21:55
Palifor example auto kernel modules loading21:55
Estel_and what systemd authors say about debug problem?21:55
Paliwhich is needed for hotplugging (usb devices)21:55
Pali~poettering21:55
NIN101it is not a subset, it's a busybox applet.21:55
Palisubset of functions21:55
Palidoes not support all what udev21:56
Estel_instead of bashing ~poettering, I'm really interested how the go around it, even if sane distributions like arch use it21:56
Estel_s/the/they/21:56
infobotEstel_ meant: instead of bashing ~poettering, I'm really interested how they go around it, even if sane distributions like arch use it21:56
Estel_I don't think that no one cares there about debugging21:56
NIN101of course it doesn't, but I can survive with it...21:56
Palifor example 2 days ago I got mail that arch linux freeze when turning pc off because application wpa_actiond is not exiting...21:57
NIN101there is also this new eudev udev fork, but I didn't take a look into it.21:57
PaliI tested and kill -9 also kill -SIGINT working without problem21:57
PaliNIN101, authors of eudev said something that udev fork is not for using...21:58
kerioEstel_: archlinux and sane don't go well in the same phrase21:58
PaliEstel_, another is that systemd using binary logs21:58
Paliis has stupid confguration21:59
Estel_I just can't belive that they're all insane into jumping on systemd, if it's all that bad... Just curious, I have no idea about it21:59
Palino direct support for shell scripts...21:59
Estel_hm21:59
Estel_so why the hell they want to use it?21:59
PaliEstel_, because it using massive paralelism when starting daemons21:59
Estel_mhm22:00
Paliand propably system can be booted quickly22:00
Estel_erm, maybe supportt enchancdement tickets into systemd and make it more friendly for debugging? :D22:00
Estel_~systemd22:00
merlin1991and it has that takes care of everything, you need nothing else feeling like busybox ;)22:00
Paliand they using it because it developed in red hat, so it must be working....22:00
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PaliEstel_: systemd is monotlitic replacement for all init daemons, login codes, poettering kits, ...22:01
Estel_hey, I just realized that maemo isn't using it? :D22:01
Paliyes, maemo does not have systemd :-)22:02
Estel_hm, sounds like pulseaudio being "replacement" to all sound related bits22:02
Estel_monolithic too22:02
merlin1991Estel_: maemo is using something worse22:03
kerioindeed22:03
merlin1991upstart22:03
Palipulseaudio is also written by poettering22:03
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Paliupstart is better when systemd!22:03
Paliupstart has daemon configuration in one file + support for shell scripts22:03
merlin1991and it drives me insane22:04
merlin1991regulary22:04
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jacekowskisystemd has even bigger problem22:04
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Paliit is not working properly :-)22:04
Paliand is not replacement for sysv init daemon22:04
jacekowskiit has same author as PA22:04
kerioindeed!22:04
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Estel_well, maybe debian won't adopt it ;)22:04
PaliI belive that debian is not blind22:05
Paliand now I need to migrate from ubuntu somewhere...22:05
merlin1991Estel_: there is systemd support in debian alredy22:05
Estel_merlin1991,  but it's not mandatory, yet22:06
Estel_Pali,  debian, gentoo... does mint use systemd?22:06
kerioupstart, i guess22:06
keriomint is ubuntu22:06
Palimint is using upstart as ubuntu22:07
Estel_btw what is best alternative to systemd/upstart, and why no distribution is using it? :D22:07
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NIN101I once booted a debian with a #!/bin/sh shellscript just for the fun, and because I could.22:07
Palithat init daemon which used archlinux before systemd22:07
Paliopenrc or similar name22:07
keriowhat's wrong with sysv init?22:07
Palikerio, nothing :-)22:07
Paliabove daemon is one of sysv init implementation22:08
Palibut support dependences + parallelism (if you want it)22:09
Estel_well, only one thing that keeps me using windows regularly, are games, IIRC... and some tax-related shitty aps being available for windoze only, but that can be workarounded22:09
Estel_once, I need to set up wine related things for games on my linux and get rid of windoze from my HD... It's just that all library resolving shit is quite pushing me away from movuing my ass into doing it, still I know one day I'll must22:09
kerioEstel_: why not invest in a crossover games license?22:10
Estel_no way I'm installing anything never than XP from micro$, and some day, in ten or more years, it wo't be enough for games, too22:10
kerioit's pretty much wine, but with preconfigurations22:10
Estel_kerio, wut wut?22:10
Estel_hey, I'm not switching to linux to use closed source blobs where not required, graphic catd drivers are enough pain itself :P22:11
keriobut crossover games is neat!22:11
Estel_unless you're talking about something else that I think you're talking22:11
Estel_what is that crossover games thing. never heard about it (googleing)22:11
n900-dk_sixwheeledbeast: Yes, I guess so, the battery gets eaten like candy, but I'm afraid, that I have no clue on which app is eating amps22:13
Estel_ok, I know what it is22:14
Estel_knew it under other name?22:14
kerioidk, perhaps cedega? it's not the same thing, but it's similar22:14
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: ~powertop22:14
Estel_anyway, what is it offering for those hard bucks, kerio? just wine with configs, that I can do myself, and learn soemthing during the process?22:14
kerioEstel_: it's basically a professional version of winetricks with a fancier UI22:15
PaliWTF? wine is now using poettering's RealtimeKit22:15
Paliwine devs are blind too???????22:15
kerioblinded by the poett22:15
Estel_hey, maybe poett is just right and you're wrong? :P22:16
Estel_just teasing.22:16
Palithis is not normal what is happening these days22:16
kerioPali: upstart depends on fucking dbus22:17
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Palikerio, now every app depens on dbus22:17
kerioa friend of mine had the bad idea of installing ubuntu server on his hetzner box22:17
kerioit's a fucking server, i shouldn't need the desktop bus22:17
Palikerio, now it is cool to use dbus, systemd, lennartkits, ...22:18
Palisomebody, please wake up me from this bad dread... and tell me that was only dream22:19
kerioit was only a bad dream22:19
Pali"there is no lennart, no systemd, no kits, ..."22:19
kerioprovided by poettering's new DreamKit22:19
Estel_kerio, btw, as you have experience with it already - using wine api calls and services equivalents, games run on same/better speed than on windoze, or still performance is an issue?22:20
kerioEstel_: afaik opengl works a lot better on linux :D22:20
Estel_My desktop hardware is quite old, and it doesn't seem having chances of getting upgraded22:20
Estel_opengl sure, but directx shit...22:20
keriodirectx doesn't work22:20
Estel_I know, but games using it are still possible to run on linux, yep?22:21
Estel_via redirecting to opengl calls?22:21
kerioidk, i think so?22:21
Estel_I'm not interested in direct 10 or above shit, directx9 games is all I need22:21
Estel_I'm just thinking if migrating to linux completely and getting rid of windoze at all is sane in my case, when related to games, as hardware isn't newest one22:22
Palikerio, "dreamkit" - this could be good motivation poster about lennart22:23
Pali:D:d22:23
Estel_especially, graphic card - while a beast in itself, it have nice few years... 5 or so? :P22:23
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kerioa 5 years old graphics card...22:23
Estel_or more?22:23
kerioso basically a modern integrated graphics chip? :P22:23
Estel_Nvidia (fuck nvidia on linux, I know) 8600GT22:23
Estel_very funny22:24
Estel_I can assure you that this card is still a beast22:24
Estel_managed to play witcher 2 on medium details at more than 20 constant fps :P22:24
Estel_from start to beginning, playable :P22:24
Estel_overclocked 50% from basic settings22:24
Estel_the thing is, that it is notebook :D22:25
n900-dk_sixwheeledbeast: What should I especially look for in powertop?22:25
Estel_just used as desktop22:25
kerion900-dk_: wakeups frequency22:25
kerioaverage time on C422:25
Estel_I travel much, so in old days i required notebook, now N900 is my travl (and not only) computer, with ssh and vnc (if needed) access to notebook sitting as desktop22:25
DocScrutinizer05((<Pali> Estel_, because it using massive paralelism when starting daemons)) well, aiui my sysV init on suse does that since ages22:25
Estel_Dell XPS 1530m22:25
Estel_no, it was m153022:26
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I wrote that there is normal sysv init daemon with this support22:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i told you multiple times, nobody uses suse :P22:26
Palijust do not remember name22:26
Estel_bought it used at real bargain 4 years ago or so22:26
Estel_suse, what is suse?22:26
Estel_joking22:26
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Estel_BTW there is a shop company in poland, with frog logo, that got suse stickers on every window22:27
n900-dk_Total wakeups  6657, 221.9/s - normal?22:27
Estel_smth about powered by suse22:27
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Estel_n900, pastebin whole powertop output22:27
kerion900-dk_: holy fuck, no22:27
Estel_and be sure to lock device after powertop execution and not touching it for minute22:27
keriowell, unless you're using it22:27
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  suse is OK for everyday usage?22:28
n900-dk_screen is of and it is on charger22:28
kerioit's a desktop distro, sure22:28
PaliDocScrutinizer05, is your init daemon systemd??22:28
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: well, I use it everyday since >10 years22:28
Estel_I'm using aptosid debian on desktop, still thinking about best distro for me (power user eager to leafrn new things, but not coder yet, and requiring some things just working :P)22:28
keriowhat's aptosid?22:29
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: can you pastebin top and sudo powertop o/p22:29
Estel_I just realized that I missed spying on suse, when I checked on every distro's + and -22:29
DocScrutinizer05Pali: alas yes, since last update. Suse switched to systemd for default, but it still supports sysV init as an option22:29
Estel_it seem quite quiet system, which may be not a bad thing22:29
keriomeh, debian sid wannabe22:29
Estel_kerio, aptosid is debian sid + patches + kde22:29
Paliso they will remove sysv init in future...22:29
kerioyou know what is debian sid + patches + kde?22:29
keriodebian sid22:30
Paliso suse is not for use anymore too :-(22:30
Estel_kerio, aptosid have own set of patches too, before they reach sid :P22:30
Estel_it's sid+22:30
n900-dk_http://pastebin.com/rhHFiybs22:30
n900-dk_powertop output22:30
Estel_sid-power22:30
Estel_:P22:30
Estel_n900 dk, have you locked device and haven't touched it for powertop operation?22:31
Estel_n900-dk_,  I mean22:31
n900-dk_ohh wait, batterygraph was running22:31
n900-dk_will try again22:32
Estel_n900-dk_,  wait22:32
Estel_before test, enable flight mode22:32
Estel_offline mode22:32
Estel_terminate all running things that you don't need22:32
Estel_and test it22:32
n900-dk_ok22:33
Estel_if results will be good (current ones are very bad), test it with again, enabling things one by one22:33
Estel_until you find cullprint22:33
Estel_your cpu doesn't sleep almost at all, something is hogging it22:33
n900-dk_what is normal wakeupfreq?22:33
Estel_hard to say, but in total idle (no wifip no gsm, etc), you should get ~97% in C422:34
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Estel_aka hardest sleep22:34
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: as estel with screen off ~500, main thing is C4 time22:34
Estel_sixwheeledbeast,  are you aware that autobuilder is becoming alive again? :D22:35
sixwheeledbeast:o yes22:35
Paliwikipedia about systemd: Debian GNU/Linux has packages for systemd in the "testing" branch. There is reluctance amongst developers to make systemd the default, since Debian GNU/kFreeBSD will not work with systemd.22:35
Paliwho is going to support kFreeBSD??22:35
Estel_Debian :P22:35
PaliI see supporting kFreeBSD as very good idea22:35
n900-dk_heh, still 98,1% in C1 in flight mode22:35
Palidebian then will not move to systemd22:36
n900-dk_but only 3455 total wakeups ;)22:36
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sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_ anything happening in top, rogue process?22:36
Pali>> wikipedia: systemd has been proposed as an external dependency of GNOME 3.2 by systemd's author. <<22:36
n900-dk_Xorg is on top22:37
n900-dk_2-3 %CPU22:37
sixwheeledbeastall the time? what's below?22:37
Palithis is nonsense that DE will depends on systemd...22:37
n900-dk_hildon-status-menu22:37
sixwheeledbeasth-s-m using what cpu?22:38
n900-dk_0,5-1 %22:38
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n900-dk_when I start powertop it writes 'Unknown job: pmtrackerdaemon'22:40
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: this is normal22:41
sixwheeledbeastyou got new powertop op in flight mode?22:41
n900-dk_yes22:42
sixwheeledbeastthere's something going on for the device to be running at 500Mhz / C1 all the time22:42
n900-dk_wonder what I have done..22:45
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: persist after reboot?22:45
DocScrutinizer05n900-dk_: you installed crappatch?22:48
n900-dk_just rebooting..22:48
n900-dk_don't think so - try to keep away from them22:48
DocScrutinizer05crappatch can do that to your N90022:49
n900-dk_battery eye was installed, but guess it is not crappatch22:49
DocScrutinizer05also some desktop widgets are known to give a shit about not bein visible, rather updtae their diplay 10 times / second. Causing shitload on X1122:50
DocScrutinizer05one of the battery monitors been one of those22:50
n900-dk_will kill batterygraph before next powertop22:51
DocScrutinizer05though I guess it's been battery usage app, which did exactly that: use battery22:51
DocScrutinizer05way too many app devels are fools with no clue, honestly22:51
n900-dk_but gives a nice picture of battery22:52
DocScrutinizer05lol, great22:52
keriowhile true; do print "Battery usage: TOO MUCH"; done22:53
DocScrutinizer05;-P22:53
DocScrutinizer05kinda exactly that22:53
kerioit works!22:53
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and it's actually always right22:53
Estel_n900, try deleting all widgets from desktop, and terminating all batteryeye/graph like programs22:53
n900-dk_at least I could see a great change in former usage of battery22:53
Estel_N90 but it's fake graph, as it uses bme data22:54
Estel_so only voltage22:54
Estel_which is useless, anyway, as you have dedicated hardware for better measurement22:54
Estel_bq27x00 chip :)22:54
Estel_which is capable of, essentially, variable current monitoring22:54
DocScrutinizer05and even that is mostly useless, since battery display is useless by design22:55
n900-dk_damn, now 11043 wakeups, even in flight mode after reboot22:55
DocScrutinizer05it doesn't tell you much useful info22:55
Estel_(even most pro li-ion chargers for models are capable of only constant current charge/discharge monitoring)22:55
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  for me bq27... gives much useful info :P22:55
Estel_n900, have you tried deleting all widgets and stopping battery monitoring things?22:56
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but for 'normal' user all he really needs to know is "battery empty soon" and that's exact enough from stock battery applet22:56
Estel_I suspect something tickling cpu few times a second, not a powerful cpu hog22:56
Estel_so it keeps it from sleeping22:56
DocScrutinizer05everything beyond is highly accurate metering of random numbers22:57
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  accurate capacity percentage is useful too22:57
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n900-dk_dont like battery empty so soon and fast ;)22:57
Estel_and current used during doing certain activities22:57
DocScrutinizer05sure, that's you22:57
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: is stuff still loading? what's in top?  battery monitors pointless IMO22:57
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  true, but percentage is quite accurate to the single percent22:57
DocScrutinizer05yes, but what does that tell lusers?22:57
DocScrutinizer05duh only 30% left over *PANIC*22:58
Estel_well, due to batteries being bootleneck, even lusers on every os including androtoy and appleshit are quite interested in getting battery infoi22:58
n900-dk_sixwheeledbeast: I waited 5 mins, then stuff should have been loaded right?22:58
Estel_so they could put their $$$ devices in fridge22:58
Estel_and charge it there22:58
Estel_and monitor22:58
DocScrutinizer05or "og still 30% left over *DROOL*"22:58
Estel_and get excited, that they used more current to charge22:58
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk: expect so22:58
Estel_:P22:59
DocScrutinizer05exactly22:59
DocScrutinizer05bogus useless info22:59
n900-dk_might be a good time to reflash after 3 years..22:59
Estel_hey, but I care about my use case, not lusers one :P22:59
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: possibly a dodgy app/widget, more likely the latter.23:00
Estel_thats why I want to be able to set bme replacement to shut my device down at 3000 mV, not freaking higher, as it's about 70 mA gain from edv1 using dual cell :P23:00
n900-dk_just to be clear: You start powertoy, close keyboard and lock device and wait?23:00
sixwheeledbeasts/possibly/probably23:00
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Estel_n900-dk_,  just kill widgets23:00
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: yep then wait +30 secs23:01
n900-dk_and it is ok to have charger connected?23:01
sixwheeledbeastah23:02
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sixwheeledbeastthis maybe why powertop wakeups so high23:02
DocScrutinizer05no charger!23:03
n900-dk_ok, will wait for a little charge then, and try again23:03
n900-dk_without charger23:03
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vdvhi all23:05
vdvsomething happened to extras-devel? every package install i'm trying from there last time fails when checking md5 sum23:06
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sixwheeledbeastvdv: hashsum mismatch?23:08
vdvyes, i mean hashsum23:08
vdvafter downloading a file23:08
sixwheeledbeast~mirrors23:08
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error23:08
vdvapt-get doesn't work23:08
vdvsixwheeledbeast, thanks23:09
sixwheeledbeastvdv: np23:09
vdvis there any app for tracking minutes/seconds during a call? which will notify at the end of each minute for example23:10
vdvor maybe any ideas, how can that be implemented23:10
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vdvmy network charges for every minute23:12
vdvso, if make a call with duration 1 min 1 sec, i have to pay for 2 min23:13
sixwheeledbeastEstel_: ping ^^^ - IIRC you did something like this23:14
n900-dk_hmm, now 35% in C2 and 48% in C3 in normal mode23:15
n900-dk_what is typical for your devices in normal mode?23:15
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: what did you kill?23:15
tommiscan i make the unlock button unlock automatically instead of bringing the slide screen on23:15
n900-dk_just did the powertop with out charger23:15
Estel_sixwheeledbeast,  DocScrutinizer05 suggested program doing things like that, and it was great - just not for my use case, due to lack of mms integration (no existing solution for it)23:15
tommisi'm asking because 'repair' man broke the unlock switch23:16
Estel_but it was able to count minutes, and even sms derived from minutes pool23:16
sixwheeledbeastvdv: ^^^23:16
Estel_tommis, hopw he broke it?23:16
Estel_desoldered from PCB?23:16
Estel_otherwise, it's quite unbreakable, and you may be able to repair it23:16
Estel_n900, still bad23:17
vdvEstel_, what's the name of a program?23:17
Estel_can't recall it, DocScrutinizer05? i pinged you for this case23:17
Estel_(it was a set of scripts rather than program, but still working great). No idea about counting every minute as full when started, but could be easily tweaked to act like that23:18
sixwheeledbeasttommis: i guess you mean power button23:18
Estel_one day, if I becomed a great coder :P I'll prepare another version of fmms with hook to counting mms's too23:19
sixwheeledbeastEstel_: there's a thread on tmo with scripts in23:19
Estel_sixwheeledbeast,  it was that IIRC23:19
Estel_sixwheeledbeast,  he mean slider23:19
Estel_slide switch23:19
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sixwheeledbeastslider broken but power key to unlock23:20
Estel_I suspect that just plastic part got borked23:20
Estel_yes23:20
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Estel_well, no idea, in pocket it would unlock all the time23:20
sixwheeledbeastthat what i mean he means power key not unlock key23:20
Estel_if only power button would be required23:20
Estel_yes, got it23:20
DocScrutinizer05so why he wants to change behavior of lockswitch when lockswitch is borked?23:20
Estel_he want powerkey to unlock insta23:21
sixwheeledbeastbutton and slide annoying?23:21
Estel_slide on screen is annoying for him23:21
Estel_not to be confused with slide switch23:21
DocScrutinizer05you can't change behaviour of a broken component, since it knows only one state: defect23:21
Estel_no idea about that one, repairing slide switch sounds like fastest way :P23:21
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  what he want is to have powerkey unlocking device without "slide to unlock" lockscreen23:22
Estel_because his side slider is defect23:22
Estel_hardware one23:22
Estel_and he want to get rid of software one :P23:22
Estel_it's more complicated to explain than it should be :P23:22
Estel_so lets say it like that - he want to get rid of apple's-like "slide to unlock"23:23
DocScrutinizer05meh, check what moh did23:23
Estel_qtlockscreen?23:23
DocScrutinizer05yep23:23
Estel_but it's stil lockscreen with some action required to unlock :P23:23
Estel_I suspect sliding on screen is as good23:23
DocScrutinizer05so patch it23:23
Estel_hm, a patch that would make it disappear immediately? :P23:23
sixwheeledbeastshake to wake? eats battery tho23:23
DocScrutinizer05exactly23:24
Estel_MAG would be proud of us :P23:24
Estel_a patch to his program that makes this program gtfo from user eyes, haha23:24
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: no, shouldn't23:24
Estel_I like the concept23:24
DocScrutinizer05g-meter has IRQ23:24
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  shaking during walking would wake it up, probably (unlock)23:24
DocScrutinizer05sounds fine23:25
Estel_BTW, anyone got decent idea to fight fact, that screen got unlocked when someone ring you?23:25
sixwheeledbeastspeaking from experience when testing the app23:25
Estel_no problem for me, but my mother's N900 in bag always hit something on it's own, then23:25
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: depends on how you readout g-meter23:25
Estel_most of the times "drop call" red button23:26
DocScrutinizer05of course you mustn't poll ;-P23:26
Estel_but polling is the way most developers seems to know about, only :P23:26
Estel_even devs of such nice thing as proximityd23:26
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Estel_with means no jedi control over device for me, as it eats too much battery doing nothing23:27
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Estel_(although works great in dosbox as some button)23:27
sixwheeledbeasthmm, yes. which reminds me. n900-dk_: how you getting on?23:27
vdvi'm trying to do apt-get install fennec, but i get E: Handler silently failed23:27
vdvwhat does mean?23:27
Estel_vdv, as said earlier, ~mirrors23:27
vdvi've added http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/23:28
Estel_really, no one have idea how to permit n900 from unlocking touchscreen, when phone rings?23:28
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: even worse: qtm knows polling only, for sensors23:28
Estel_how to deny*23:28
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  lol23:28
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Estel_I don't trust qt in anything :/23:28
Estel_atmobility is borked, qtradio allows only mono...23:28
Estel_s/atmobility/qtmobility/23:29
infobotEstel_ meant: qtmobility is borked, qtradio allows only mono...23:29
DocScrutinizer05qt got fucked up thoroughly, with qt423:29
DocScrutinizer05and it took kde with it23:29
Estel_I just can get rid of feeling that every qt application for N900 is worse than gtk conterpart23:29
sixwheeledbeastthat reminds me i haven't got fennec thumb to work yet crashes on startup23:29
Estel_freemangordon,  ^^^that is what i was talking about, when bitching about qt earlier23:29
DocScrutinizer05since then it got only worse23:29
vdvhere is my hildon-application-manager.list http://pastebin.com/84Y6HPUg23:29
n900-dk_sixwheeledbeast:  C4 |  82.9% |   98.7ms  - looks better I guess, but still 2980 wakeups23:30
Estel_not to mention that I don't like having qt and gtk loaded at the same time in memory23:30
vdvcan anybody share consistent list of repositories?23:30
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk: good good23:30
Estel_n900-dk_,  I suspect you won't get better results with your set of applications installed, it's pretty ok now23:30
Estel_vdv:23:30
Estel_~mirrors23:30
infobotmirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error23:30
sixwheeledbeastvdv: the latter of the list for devel23:31
n900-dk_ok, might also be broken battery, but will keep an eye on how fast it's drained23:31
Estel_there is also cssu mirror repo23:31
vdvsixwheeledbeast, but there's also extras-devel in first link23:31
Estel_n900-dk_,  battery doesn't have anything to do with wakeups23:31
Estel_vdv, yea, extras devel @ merlin is best for your use case23:31
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_ from powertop output expecting a widget or the like23:31
DocScrutinizer05ooooor you go.... for rmo_*new* ;-P23:32
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  it isn't working like that yet, is it?23:32
sixwheeledbeast/etc/hosts?23:32
DocScrutinizer05:nod:23:32
n900-dk_just don't use HAM23:32
Estel_ah, just autobuilder need more work, then? so when DNS records are going to get redirected into new one?23:32
DocScrutinizer05whoknows *sigh*23:33
Estel_ough, some problems with it?23:33
DocScrutinizer05only problem: Nokia23:33
Estel_no big deal, just curious23:33
Estel_haha23:33
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Estel_so this domain ownership discussion was about that23:33
DocScrutinizer05nah23:33
DocScrutinizer05that been about scatchbox23:34
Estel_so, considering that repos are working and autobuilder is going to be working soon, we may return to normal soon, too?23:34
Estel_and maemo got basically free hosting for at least year?23:34
Estel_HiFo isn't standing in the way of using our free hosting from those kind guys?23:34
DocScrutinizer05yes23:35
Estel_sounds nice, maemo may live after all :D23:35
DocScrutinizer05well, when i fight then for winning23:35
Estel_well, so now, only one big issue is messing with legal mess about HiFo, statute, etc, and lesser mess with domain ownership?23:35
DocScrutinizer05yep23:36
Estel_and then, the smallest mess with migrating TMO to some FOSS engine, when we don't have anything else to do? :P23:36
* Estel_ just can't wait 'till doc loses all his thanks23:37
Estel_;)23:37
DocScrutinizer05meh, already lost them, my karma isn't sufficient to run for next council term23:37
DocScrutinizer05\o/23:38
Estel_0_p?23:38
Estel_joking, right? or tmo stopped getting recalculated for karma?23:38
DocScrutinizer05got 89, need 20023:38
* sixwheeledbeast starts looking for posts where he hasn't thanked joerg23:39
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: won't help23:39
sixwheeledbeasti know karma broken IIRC23:39
DocScrutinizer05tmo thanks not calculated for karma anymore23:39
DocScrutinizer05we should replace that by a karma from IRC ;-P23:40
sixwheeledbeastwas this to be fixed?23:40
Estel_hey, I can't login into maemo.org23:41
Estel_(not tmo)23:41
sixwheeledbeastIRC karma? how23:41
PaliDocScrutinizer05, we have irc logs :-)23:41
DocScrutinizer05yeah, how?23:41
DocScrutinizer05nicks on IRC are bogus23:41
DocScrutinizer05logs have no way to check registration23:42
Palilink registred irc name to maemo.org account23:42
sixwheeledbeastEstel_: no login on m.o for a while IIRC23:42
DocScrutinizer05and even then, how the heck calculate karma from IRC?23:42
DocScrutinizer05will spambots get most karma ever?23:42
CorsacI can think of a number of wrong ways :)23:42
n900-dk_sixwheeledbeast: Does this luck ok, or can you spot something odd? http://pastebin.com/NWYZKNcw23:43
Estel_sixwheeledbeast,  so maemo org accounts won't be working? DocScrutinizer05?23:43
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* Woody14619 suggests 1 point per each million lines logged. ;)23:43
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: for me e.g garage and bugs works23:43
sixwheeledbeastspam posts?23:43
Estel_garage does, I mean maemo.org for wiki etc23:43
PaliDocScrutinizer05, look here for logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23maemo/20130306.html.gz23:43
DocScrutinizer05what's not working is www.maemo.org/*23:43
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  I see. Do we know why?23:44
vdvstrange, i'm using mirror, but still getting hash sum mismatch23:44
vdvE: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?23:44
DocScrutinizer05still under investigation23:44
Estel_I see. Well, for wiki it worksp so no big deal23:44
Estel_just that no one willing to candidate for council could be able to link tmo account23:44
n900-dk_vdv: remembered to disable rmo?23:45
Estel_to his profile23:45
Estel_and such things23:45
DocScrutinizer05it works for *.m.o but not for m.o/*23:45
vdvn900-dk_, i don't know what rmo mean :)23:45
DocScrutinizer05~rmo23:45
DocScrutinizer05grrr23:46
vdvremote mobile objects23:46
DocScrutinizer05~r.m.o23:46
DocScrutinizer05dafaq23:46
sixwheeledbeastn900-dk_: not perfect but vast improvement I normally get ~92% C4 and ~500 wakes23:46
Pali~ping23:46
infobot~pong23:46
vdv))23:46
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues garage.maemo23:46
infobotFactoid search of 'garage.maemo' by value (5): tablet-encode ;; rm_you #DEL# ;; mediautils ;; microb ;; #maemo gmo.23:46
vdv~tell23:46
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo gmo23:46
infobot[#maemo gmo] garage.maemo.org23:46
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  strange, I can log in for wiki, but when i search for my contribs, nothing is found23:47
DocScrutinizer05~gmo23:47
infobotrumour has it, gmo is garage.maemo.org23:47
DocScrutinizer05~rmo23:47
Estel_(trying to create bme replacement wiki page for Pali )23:47
DocScrutinizer05o.O23:47
n900-dk_sixwheeledbeast: must kill more stuff, thx :)23:47
DocScrutinizer05missed to define that?23:47
DocScrutinizer05~literal gmo23:48
infobot"#maemo gmo" is "garage.maemo.org"23:48
Pali~gmo.23:48
infobotit has been said that gmo is garage.maemo.org23:48
n900-dk_vdv: you should disable normal repository and only use mirror23:48
Estel_I also lost allmy wiki subscribtions during migration23:48
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  ^23:48
DocScrutinizer05~#maemo rmo is repository.maemo.org23:48
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay23:48
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vdvn900-dk_, for each category?23:48
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: sure?23:48
DocScrutinizer05or just no more notification mails?23:49
DocScrutinizer05which is a known problem23:49
vdvif, say, i want to use extras-devel mirror, then i remove normal extras-devel of course23:49
sixwheeledbeastvdv: the devel one you are using mirror for23:49
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  absolutely - I'm logged as "estel", and my subscribed wiki articles count is 0...23:49
Estel_now 1, as I've added stub23:49
DocScrutinizer05:-o23:49
Estel_for bme replacement23:49
DocScrutinizer05shit23:49
Estel_expected that you may to know about that eagerly ;)23:50
Estel_may want to know*23:50
Estel_I wonder what get broken23:50
DocScrutinizer05db23:50
DocScrutinizer05my guess23:50
DocScrutinizer05some table not migrated23:50
DocScrutinizer05blame Nemein23:50
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  probably23:51
vdvsixwheeledbeast, do i need only one repository entry?23:51
DocScrutinizer05I'll look into it23:51
DocScrutinizer05or rather23:51
Estel_when i, for example, check history of "ereswap" article, my edits are mentioned as belonging to "estel"23:51
Estel_although, while searching for my edits, 0 results23:51
vdvhere is what i had before: http://pastebin.com/84Y6HPUg23:51
Estel_so something isn't right too about it23:51
Estel_when i check forf, lets say, sixwheeledbeast edits, it also returns 023:52
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: could you please write a proper bug report mail (with exact problem, since when probably it exists, how to reproduce etc) to support@nemein.com and CC techstaff@maemo.org please23:52
Estel_ok...23:52
sixwheeledbeastvdv: disable testing for now too23:52
Estel_just a little more debugging to check what doesn't work23:52
PaliEstel_, I have same problem23:52
Palipage https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Contributions/pali is empty23:53
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: good boy :-D23:53
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vdvsixwheeledbeast, fremantle free non-free ?23:53
vdvfor http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ i mean23:54
kerioPali: well start contributing then23:54
Palikerio, I edited kernel cssu page23:54
DocScrutinizer05vdv, this is not meant to be a hashsum-errror free mirror23:54
sixwheeledbeastvdv: best use merin1991.at for devel as above not we.drop23:54
Palibut my list is still empty23:54
sixwheeledbeastyes for the rest23:54
DocScrutinizer05~mirror23:54
infoboti guess mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error23:54
Estel_Pali,  he joked23:54
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Estel_Pali,  it would be good if more people would sent complains to support@nemein.com23:55
vdvsixwheeledbeast, DocScrutinizer05: but does merin1991.at contain extras-testing for example?23:55
DocScrutinizer05no, it would NOT23:55
DocScrutinizer05vdv: nobody needs testing23:55
sixwheeledbeastat the moment anyway23:56
Estel_DocScrutinizer05,  no need for more reports to them? sure?23:56
vdvok23:56
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: yes, absolutely sure that duplicate reports will make matters worse23:56
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Palikerio, btw, funny question: do you know ogden lemma for RL?23:56
Estel_normally I agree, I was just curious about special situation with x-fade MIA for us23:56
PaliEstel_, todat I already sent two emails23:57
DocScrutinizer05x-fade isn't MIA anymore, just reporting "WFM"23:58
vdvDocScrutinizer05, which repos are else recommended?23:58
DocScrutinizer05he's allegedly looking into autobuilder next week23:59
DocScrutinizer05vdv: only maemo-extras23:59
DocScrutinizer05and extras-devel if you need to install some particular pkg not available from extras23:59
vdvso, maemo-extras and extras-devel ?23:59

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