IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2013-03-06

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DocScrutinizer05[notice] seems repository is down. We (maemo tech staff) can't access the machine serving it. We contacted Nemein support to fix the issue00:27
sixwheeledbeastit's been down for ~18 hours I assumed it was known?00:28
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, it is even worse with linux desktop: lennart (red hat) killed udev and canonical trying to kill X server and wayland00:29
Palicanonical creating poettering like display server00:29
Skrylennart has been busy indeed00:30
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: nah, we don't monitor "old" infra that closely anymore, since tech staff is more than busy fixing shit on *new* infra00:30
Paliwith android's compatibility for binary blobs00:30
Paliway to the hell00:30
DocScrutinizer05Pali: :-((00:33
Paliand even worse canonical doing on their display server (replacement for X) for more months behind closed doors00:34
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: thought I'd mention the IP for r.m.o isn't the same as on the wiki page.00:34
sixwheeledbeastr.m.o = .205 but on wiki is .20300:35
warfaresixwheeledbeast: we can't access DNS yet, so we could not migrate services to new infrastructure yet. Which was good, because we got hit by a strage Xen/Kernel bug today..00:35
DocScrutinizer05while for around a decade and more it's been the topmost goal to make linux compatible with other unixes, it's now a fsckng "we're linux, what do we care about anybody else (except microsoft  and windows), we define our own standards"00:35
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: thanks, that wiki info is outdated, since we / Nemein reassigne r.m.o to stage00:38
DocScrutinizer05stage is .20500:39
sixwheeledbeast DocScrutinizer05: warfare: kk thanks00:39
SkryI believe one reason too is the "new" blood in developers, lot of them coming from Windows to *buntu having no ideological, ethical, historical or whatsoever relation to anything unix-like. Then there are corporations who do what they want.00:39
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: thanks for mentioning it00:40
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DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: fixed00:45
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Macergot my $30 prepaid sim heh00:46
Macernice00:46
sixwheeledbeastta00:46
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Maceri still cant receive txts yet :(00:47
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders *when* that dns change been done by Nokia00:48
sixwheeledbeastMacer: why00:49
DocScrutinizer05seems you can find mirrors/archives/logs for virtually everything in the interweb, just not for DNS00:49
Macersixwheeledbeast: they said it was from just activating it00:50
Macerand i have to wait a couple of hours00:50
Maceri guess since i xfered the number from att? who knows00:50
Macermakes no sense to me00:51
sixwheeledbeastnormally send an outgoing text and the sim is active (in UK)00:51
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sixwheeledbeastgn all01:08
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raid|2~mirrors03:30
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error03:30
DocScrutinizer51~botsnack03:30
infobot:), DocScrutinizer5103:30
DocScrutinizer51wtf.03:30
DocScrutinizer51but yeah03:31
DocScrutinizer51mirrors are still working while rmo is down03:31
raid|2That sucks03:32
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DocScrutinizer05W*T*F is wrong with my xchat??? it doesn't re-register when internet connectivity is "roaming"03:51
DocScrutinizer05seems that's now shit since update of my bouncer to ZNC1.x03:52
DocScrutinizer05new*03:52
DocScrutinizer05that's terribly useless03:53
DocScrutinizer05leaving home (and wifi range), everything happily switches to GPRS/UMTS just IRC stays offline until I force 'reconnect'03:54
DocScrutinizer05coming home - all the same just inverse direction03:54
DocScrutinizer05wtf is wrong with this shit?03:55
DocScrutinizer05the whole fremantle xchat seems fux0red, can't highlight words/lines anymore, despite push&drag to highlight stuff now the context menu pops up after 0.5s03:57
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DocScrutinizer05I hope I don't have to blame CSSU for that03:58
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DocScrutinizer05but, no matter whom to blame, that's utterly useless and fsckdup03:59
DocScrutinizer05incredible03:59
DocScrutinizer05and I'm absolutely sure I didn't update xchat since years, and also it changed during last 4 months04:00
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DocScrutinizer05probably last 4 weeks04:01
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DocScrutinizer51wow, at least it re-registered when I left my flat the 2nd time04:21
DocScrutinizer51picked up on what I wrote when at home04:21
DocScrutinizer51sth fux0red with that thing04:22
Macerwell04:25
Macerthis tmobile thing finally kicked in :)04:25
Macerprepaid4lyfe!!04:26
Macernever again ... will i ever have an actual plan04:26
Macerit makes no sense how they sell the prepaid so cheaply04:26
Macerand the plans are so expensive04:26
Maceror why they don't have cheaper plans that have the types of balances the prepaid stuff has04:26
Macerlike the $30 100min/5GB/UNLtxt04:26
Macer$34 after taxes04:27
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DocScrutinizer05last "plan" I had was in 1990some04:50
Maceris there a telepathy for symbian? :)04:51
Macerthe symbian default txting app sucks :(04:51
Maceri miss telepathy04:51
Macerit does some awkward screen refresh thing that is driving me nuts and won't send on enter04:52
Macerunles i'm using the kb04:52
DocScrutinizer0530EUR buys me 50EUR worth of "minutes". 10EUR/months for 1GB of traffic (which I never exceed), the rest for outbound minutes (.29/min) and SMS(.29/sms)04:52
Macerthe swype keyboard won't do it04:52
Maceryeah after this i'm NEVER getting a plan04:52
Maceri'll just prepay hunt lol04:52
Macerso long as tmobile keeps the plan the way it is then i'm golden04:52
Macerbut i'm sure after more masses get hip to just paying the extra $100 for a phone that will be worth $50 in a year...04:53
Macerinstead of renting it04:53
DocScrutinizer05Macer: you're aware you're on #maemo here?04:53
Maceroh04:53
Macerdamnit :-/04:53
* Macer hides04:53
Macerwell.. telepathy is maemo/meego ish04:54
Macermaybe you guys would know :)04:54
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders what to report on tmo migration thread to entertain the masses04:55
DocScrutinizer05maybe that we managed to track down a bug in XEN despite HiFo madness distracting us from our primary taks?04:56
DocScrutinizer05task even04:56
Macerheh04:56
Macerjust post that you will no longer be requiring the aid of the hifo and will run it all as an independent dictatorship :)04:57
Macerthat should get them stirring04:57
DocScrutinizer05http://lists.xen.org/archives/html/xen-devel/2013-03/msg00404.html04:57
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DocScrutinizer05kudos to jacekowski04:59
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DocScrutinizer05(no longer be requiring...) see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8937805:01
DocScrutinizer05tim suggested just that05:01
Macerwell... how about that?05:02
Macertruth be told there really isn't much required to run a nfp :) you file a different type of tax sheet at the end of the year05:04
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MacerAs a nonprofit entity that must operate according to bylaws and legal formalities (as well it should in order to comply with certain governing laws), the processes have been less than efficient.05:05
Macerwhich is why i don't understand that part05:05
MacerFurthermore, I feel that the Maemo Community Council should be given more responsibility in general operations of the maemo.org ecosystem.05:06
Maceruhm.....?05:06
MacerDocScrutinizer05: you should ask them to give up their n950s!05:07
Macerlol05:07
DocScrutinizer05huh?05:09
DocScrutinizer05I wish everybody of BoD had already touched a N900 in his life05:09
DocScrutinizer05n950. wtf?!05:09
Macerheh05:10
Maceri want an n950 :(05:10
Macerand a working n900 :(05:11
DocScrutinizer05anyway, please contribute on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=89387, we (council) need feedback from you (community) *urgently*05:11
Maceri'm scared to buy one05:11
Maceromg05:12
Macermy login.. i actually remembered it haha05:12
DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] in about 3 weeks our next council term elections will start. WE NEED YOU to paricipate, run for a seat in council, or at VERY LEAST **vote**!05:13
DocScrutinizer05we're going to fix karma til then, and prerequisites for voting and for running for a seat in council will be pretty much identical to what they always been05:14
Macerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1327156&postcount=805:17
Macerthere you go :)05:17
Macerlol05:17
Macerbrutal honesty is always the best kind05:18
Macerspeaking of which05:19
MacerDocScrutinizer05: apparently debian is able to find its way onto newer devices using an android bootloader and the android kernel05:19
Macermy point being.. maybe maemo would be a good choice to see about getting onto other devices :) is that even possible? because without production of n900s maemo is just a white dwarf cooling down05:20
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DocScrutinizer05this white dwarf will take ages to cool down, as usual with those. and it been borne by a supernova that - by blasing away its outer hulls - created a hockwave that will give birth to new more flourishing systems in the neigbourhood05:22
Maceryeah but you need ample material to do so :-P and a white dwarf is not necessarily from supernovae. supernovae usually product neutron stars or black holes because of their mass05:23
Macera white dwarf is usually a smaller yellow star05:23
Macerthat runs out of material and dies after turning into a red giant05:23
Macerand shedding what little it had left off itself because of its loss of mass/gravity and can no longer hold onto itself05:24
DocScrutinizer05the red giant is Harmattan, no doubt ;-P05:24
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Macerthen turns into a little white ball which eventually cools down05:24
Macerunless another star comes along that it can feed off of and blow up :)05:24
DocScrutinizer05ate all planets it ever had, then collapsing05:24
Macerheh05:25
Macereither way. with the advent of debian being able to be placed on newer model phones05:25
Macermaybe the community may want to look at that as a way to get maemo on them05:25
Macerinstead of eventually running out of fuel (n900s)05:25
DocScrutinizer05we always had that option. Though without any decent hw-support, and I don't see that changing05:25
Macerbut the hw support should be that difficult if all the hardware is working and the apis are in place.. all of which i am sure the debian guys wouldn't mind helping with05:26
Macermaybe even a debian/maemo merger might be a good idea05:26
* jpinx logged into the thread, but has nfc about the issues/people05:26
DocScrutinizer05is there any decent new device that has hw-kbd and non-FSCKNG-c-ts?05:26
Macerthat's a fair point :-/ heh05:26
Macerbut n810 didn't have a qwerty either ;)05:27
Macerand maemo wasn't too bad on that05:27
Macerand there is also stuff like the note05:27
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jpinxthe n900 hardware will take some beating (apart from the usb port problem05:27
Macerwhich has a large enough screen to make a vkb viable05:27
DocScrutinizer05errr, what else was it N810 had?05:27
Macerjpinx: there are a lot with the modem issue as well05:27
Macerheh05:27
DocScrutinizer05a qwertz?05:27
Macerqwerty :-P05:28
Macertoo05:28
jpinxvirtual kbd's are a pita05:28
Maceryou germans.. with your z :-P05:28
Macerjpinx: i agree05:28
Macerbut there aren't any devices coming out with hw kbs anymore nowadays05:28
Maceri blame europe05:28
Macerwith their qwertz05:28
DocScrutinizer05my N810 has a pretty good hw kbd, better than N90005:28
Macer:)05:28
jpinxMacer: modem issues? my n900 spends most of it's life connecting my laptop to the world05:28
Maceri guess it is easier to layout a vkb05:28
Macerinstead of supporting maps for different hw kbs?05:28
Macerat least that's what xsacha said in symbian which made perfect sense05:29
Macerjpinx: look it up. quite a few people (myself included) had their modems die05:29
Macerwhere they would no longer read the sim or read the sim as not being inserted05:29
Macerit wasn't a pin issue05:29
Macersomething else broke05:29
Macereven nokia gave me an off the wall solution05:29
Macer"Try wedging a piece of paper in the battery compartment"05:30
Macerlol05:30
MacerNOKIA said to do this!05:30
jpinxMacer: that has worked for me with other mobiles ;)05:30
Macerafter not honoring my warranty because the device was a UK device and i was in the US05:30
Macerit worked for me as well for a while05:30
Macerthen again it stopped05:30
Macerand you can only shove so much paper into the compartment ;)05:30
jpinxMacer: hardware dies - it's a fact of life ;)05:30
Maceryeah but the n900 i had before that05:30
Macerhad the usb port fall off05:31
Macerso that's 2 i went through05:31
jpinxI have a spare unused n900 ready ;)05:31
Macerheh05:31
DocScrutinizer05nokia helpdesk==idiots with a poor database on their PC05:31
MacerDocScrutinizer05: i get that but i mean that was something i never would have expected from a customer support05:31
Macer"Shove paper into it."05:31
Macerwtf? :)05:31
* jpinx never dealt with nokia helpdesk - only irc ;)05:31
Macer"Hit it with a hammer while dancing around it."05:31
DocScrutinizer05lol, kinda05:31
Macereither way.. my point being that things happen.. they are no longer in production so they will die out05:32
Macereven die hard people will break theirs and say "what is the point anymore" and just move on05:32
Macerwithout there being a fresh pool of hardware05:32
Macerwhich is why i asked about hte debian on android phones projects ;)05:32
Macerbecause it seemed like a good area to expand into05:32
DocScrutinizer05that's what you get when 200 indians google the net for answers to problems confronted to 1st level helpdesk05:32
Macerat the very least a good open area to keep maemo viable... make a better vkb05:33
Macerheh05:33
jpinxMacer: debian would have issues with the touchscreen I think05:33
Maceryeah05:33
Maceri think that is the only area they are having problems with :-/05:33
Macerbut you're a group of smart guys.. maybe you can get maemo working with it :)05:33
Macerlol05:33
jpinxubuntu <shudder> has a touchscreen version05:33
Macerplus you'd be doing the debian/ubuntu guys a favor05:33
Macerand favors are always nice05:33
DocScrutinizer05*burrp*05:34
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: does more favours with free advice in here than you can count ;)05:34
Maceri understand that but favors in dev are probably a bit better than favors for me asking about shoving paper into my n900 ;)05:34
Macerie: they can probably help with dev issues you are having problems with05:34
Macerthe problems may be similar to theirs etc05:34
DocScrutinizer05before I do canonical a favor the hell will freeze over05:35
jpinxMacer: I'm a debian user and I reckon it'll be a whilte before debain is ready for touchscreen ... meantime all the old n900 hardware will have failed05:35
Maceri'm just saying that .... maemo will eventually require expansion05:35
Macerespecially on the hardware front05:35
Macerthe numbers are dwindling05:35
Macerjust throwing that out there for consideration05:35
Macerit may be a good move to make05:36
jpinxafaict maemo exists only because nokia would not open their drivers05:36
DocScrutinizer05exactly05:36
jpinxwith open drivers the n900 could probably run on debian stable05:36
Macerhey the n900 is a scrappy device05:37
DocScrutinizer05not only drivers. Middleware, and core apps like dialer, calendar etc05:37
Macerbut it's dated05:37
Maceri still like playing old nintendo games :)05:37
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: what's the chances of nokia opening up now that the hardware is no longer in production ?05:37
orloklol05:37
orlokfuck all05:37
DocScrutinizer05zilch05:37
orlokremember who runs nokia now05:37
MacerMS ? ;)05:37
jpinxHmm -- true :(05:37
orlokyup05:37
orloki speak to an ex maemo dev on another channel05:38
orlokhe managed to get work at intel over there05:38
Macerheh05:38
orlokhad nothing good to say about what happened05:38
Macerintel is a non-factor in the mobile market05:38
Macerthey need to make something that doesn't require a fan05:38
DocScrutinizer05a) they don't own the (C) of a lot of stuff made by colabora et al. b) they would need to get stuff reviewed by their lawyers which is a painfully long and expensive process05:38
jpinxI know a couple of maemo devs - now employed elsewhere - there comments are priceless05:39
orlokMacer: they have, and they are employing a lot of ex-nokia maemo people apaprently05:39
DocScrutinizer05c) they won't earn a single dollar by doing so05:39
Macerorlok: i'll believe it when i see it ;)05:39
orlokMacer: Intel's responsible for whatever maemo turned into, are they not?05:39
Macermeego? they had a small part to play05:39
Macerbut that doesn't help them with their hw engineering ;)05:39
Maceri believe intel was "one of partners..."05:40
Maceralong with nokia who a few months later abandoned it in favor of saving their asses with MS money05:40
Macerintel has to be like a decade behind arm if not more05:40
jpinxhas to be said that nokia have totally lost the plot05:41
jpinxshame really --  they made some excellent hardware years ago.....05:41
Macersure did.... i just recently got an e7 heh05:41
Macerthe thing is like 10x better than anything android05:41
Maceri was shocked how good belle was . they were really just right there with it05:42
Macerthen just went all over the dart board trying to stop the stock price slaughter from iphone and android show just shoved them off the hill05:42
Maceri honestly think if they stuck with symbian just another year ... and kept maemo/meego niche for a bit longer .. they'd have made it through :)05:43
Macerbut i guess panic is a bitch05:44
jpinxpanic indeed - now I hope the maemo project won't panin in the same way05:45
Macerwell.. like i suggested.... expansion of hardware should be an incredibly important factor .. with nothing readily available it will just fade :) but that's just me. i could be wrong.05:46
jpinxMacer: I choose the n900 because the hardware is solid, and the OS was something like debian05:46
Maceras did i heh05:46
Maceri'm sure most did05:47
Macerit's absolutely awesome05:47
Macerbut i've had 2 die on me ;) so minus 2 from the hardware pool05:47
Macerand it isn't like the cells are regenerating anymore lol05:47
jpinxbut there is so much could be done with it if the hardware drivers were opened up05:47
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DocScrutinizer05there are no closed drivers05:48
jpinxMacer: I am looking for broken screen n900's to buy and fix to act as future replacements05:48
DocScrutinizer05drivers are kernel space which by GPL needs to be FOSS05:49
DocScrutinizer05it's the middleware that's fsckdup by obfuscation05:49
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: ok - I stand corrected, but the parts of the system which are currently closed and preventing an android like developement05:49
DocScrutinizer05like PA plugins that don't allow porting katest PA to maemo fremantle05:49
* jpinx never heard the term "middleware" before ;)05:50
DocScrutinizer05you have same shit on android, just worse05:50
DocScrutinizer05~wiki middleware05:50
infobotAt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleware (URL), Wikipedia explains: "In its most general sense, 'middleware' is computer software that provides services to software applications beyond those available from the operating system. Middleware can be described as "software glue".[http://web.archive.org/web/20120629211518/http://www.middleware.org/whatis.html What is Middleware?] Thus middleware is not obviously part of an operating system, not a database ...05:50
jpinx;)05:50
DocScrutinizer05~closed05:51
infobotit has been said that closed is http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages05:51
DocScrutinizer05all those fucking libs essential for maemo and not even focumented API05:52
DocScrutinizer05documented*05:52
DocScrutinizer05gettings cell broadcast SMs to work, jonwil had to patch a libisi binary since no sourcecode available to fix a silly bug in it05:53
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DocScrutinizer05same for PA and audio policies, which Pali tackled05:55
DocScrutinizer05there are zillions more05:55
DocScrutinizer05ask SpeedEvil05:55
jpinx :s05:56
DocScrutinizer05his bonmot about how maemo got designed is unsurpassed05:56
DocScrutinizer05you can't help but have to think they did that on purpose05:57
SpeedEvilI've in the past said that maemo was designed to allow application development, and no more.05:57
DocScrutinizer05and on HARM they excelled on it05:57
jpinxyes - it's like they wanted a shelf-life on the system05:57
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jpinxharm is a disaster05:57
SpeedEvilthere are a twisty maze of interconnected daemons, all talking over in, or poorly documented interfaces.05:57
SpeedEvilwithout source, so you basically have to reimplement all the closed bits damn near from scratch. or do really, really nasty reverse engineering. if you want to for example add an internet connection protocol that isn't supported05:59
DocScrutinizer05check timed05:59
DocScrutinizer05alarmd05:59
DocScrutinizer05missioncontrol05:59
DocScrutinizer05you name it05:59
SpeedEvileven if these were opensource, it wouldn't be easy to replace them06:00
SpeedEvilsimply because of their interconnectedness.06:00
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SpeedEviladd that they're binary, and worse, connected to an undocumented modem and other hardware you have to reverse engineer, and that tools for reverse engineering arm are less common06:01
SpeedEviland...06:01
DocScrutinizer05https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages  <- read it and weep06:01
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DocScrutinizer05reading that, you'll realize that maemo is stillborn for a foss project06:02
DocScrutinizer05Nokia promissed but cheated on us, and never delivered06:03
jpinxwiki.maemo.org uses an invalid security certificate.06:03
jpinxThe certificate expired on 12/08/12 06:59.06:03
DocScrutinizer05*sigh* really new stuff06:03
DocScrutinizer05guess who's in charge06:04
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jpinxwho ?06:04
DocScrutinizer05since maemo.org domain still isn't owned by "us2 there's just so much we can do about it06:04
DocScrutinizer05http://roundup.fourecks.de/maemo/issue4 et al06:06
jpinxfor sure nokia will be trying to quietly strangle maemo etc to force people into their new stuff06:07
DocScrutinizer05I bet they don't give a shit about those maybe 20k maemo users still active06:07
DocScrutinizer05Nokia builds 20k devixes for the trashbin, on PV runs in their fab06:08
jpinxof course they give a shit - that's why they are killing the old system and forcing those users to buy into the new stuff06:08
DocScrutinizer05and that's the whole problem - maemo doesn't matter no more06:08
DocScrutinizer05dearm on06:09
DocScrutinizer05dream even06:09
jpinx;)06:09
DocScrutinizer05Nokia sold i'd guess 2 Mio N900, probbaly quite a bit more of N9, and they don't care about those 30k still active N900 of today06:10
DocScrutinizer05not even worth a single engineer's or manager's thoughts of a single day06:10
jpinx30k users is a drop in the ocean06:10
jpinxtotally insignificant in corporate terms06:11
robbiethe1stWell, guys, I want a good, open N900 replacement. Get busy!06:12
DocScrutinizer05heck, they had an akamai server farm for repo and even for tablets-dev. Now we're servicing that with a single VM on a 100Mb/s uplink, and we have lots of headroom06:12
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: sell kits, dude! sell kits!06:13
robbiethe1stI'd be willing to spend a few hundred $ if I could get a decent tablet with something open on it.06:13
jpinxraspbery pi ?06:14
DocScrutinizer05haha, everybody is06:14
robbiethe1stAnd Android /does not count/, as it sucks. Give me Hildon, damnit!06:14
robbiethe1stThe problem is that all the few 'open' tablets I've seen, have crummy specs. absolutely horrible.06:15
DocScrutinizer05for a ballpark figure: iirc the TI zoom-II was USD~200006:15
robbiethe1stEspecially when I can get a $300 Ainol semi-open tablet with high res screen etc.06:15
DocScrutinizer05I almost got me one, until I realized that the SD-card will protrude when inserted06:15
jpinxtablets are not going to replace my eeepc anytime soon. I've tried several, own one and they all suck hairy balls06:16
DocScrutinizer05which is a real W*T*F06:16
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robbiethe1stWill protrude on...?06:16
robbiethe1stAlso, is it sad that the best tablet I06:17
DocScrutinizer05eh? what's unclear about "will protrude"?06:17
robbiethe1stOn what device?06:17
DocScrutinizer05insert a SD card, it will be half inside the case, half outside06:17
DocScrutinizer05zoom-II06:17
robbiethe1stOh06:17
* jpinx has a Master A702 - it works .....06:18
DocScrutinizer05http://www.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12013&contentId=53575&DCMP=wtbu_zoom&HQS=Other+PR+zoom2_technical06:18
robbiethe1stI want a device with a decent screen, powerful, good Linux support and such, and a /huge/ battery or secondary-battery module in a convertable/slider form factor.06:19
robbiethe1stAbsolute best would be a 5-6" factor, slightly bigger than N90006:19
jpinxrobbiethe1st: don't we all ?06:19
robbiethe1st7 or 10 would do OK though... or even a bigger 13-16" device06:20
robbiethe1st*sigh* yeah06:20
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robbiethe1stIt's like, even Microsoft realizes tablets need keyboards. why doesn't anyone else?06:20
jpinxrobbiethe1st: over here they sell tablet cases with usb kbds in --  very popular06:21
robbiethe1stI've seen those06:21
robbiethe1stBut still, it's nothing like a slider06:21
jpinxslider on a 7" tablet would be a bit unweildy ;)06:21
robbiethe1stI dunno06:22
jpinxI'm happy with the dimensions of the n900 - just make the screen go all the way to the edges06:22
robbiethe1stTake a look at the new 10" slider(N950 style) for Win 806:22
robbiethe1stI think it's Sony06:22
robbiethe1st...and give me 1024x600 at least06:22
* jpinx needs something that will go in his pocket06:23
Maceryeah me too06:23
jpinxeven the samsung note is too big06:23
Macerseems like the era of the sliding qwerty(z) is over in favor of a cheaper vkb06:23
DocScrutinizer05they will learn06:23
Macernot to mention companies seem to want things to be slimmer06:23
jpinxMacer: I have a vkbd on my tablet and it is almost unsueable :(06:23
jpinxunuseable --  even06:24
Macerjpinx: on my tf101 i usually installed the thumb keyboard06:24
Macerthe standard one was just simply retarded for a 10" screen heh06:24
DocScrutinizer05we had decent screensize with N810, when N900 came out we asked "ooh, why so small, we would have liked it to be like N810!" now look where every cellphone manuf is today06:24
DocScrutinizer05same for kbd06:24
Macerheh06:25
robbiethe1stSurprisingly, at least for me, the N900 /works/06:25
Maceri didn't mind the n900 screen06:25
Macerit was the same res anyways06:25
DocScrutinizer05when N9 came out, we said "WTF?! we had good kbd on N900, why none on N9". Wanna bet what everybody will do in two years? ;-D06:25
robbiethe1stIt works better than the N950 for me06:25
Macerlol06:25
Macerby then tho nokia was in MS' pocket06:25
Maceri wish they had released at least an n950 to the masses on their exit06:26
Macertoo bad i can't put meego on my e7 :-/06:26
jpinxnokia is just ms mobile arm now06:26
Macerseems so06:26
DocScrutinizer05what I *really* can't wait to see is Jolla's introduction to the hw market06:27
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Macerevery time i think of something "new" i am reminded of that disgusting touchbook06:28
Macerby AI06:28
DocScrutinizer05if they will listen to the geeks and get hw-kbd, or go the braindead way to try and challenge iFroit on their own battleground06:28
Macermy lesson in never pre-ordering06:28
Macerand a lesson well learned.. i think i took a $100 loss when i sold it to someone06:29
Maceri mean to a dev it was probably kind of neat.. beagleboard with a built on touchscreen06:29
Maceri'm often curious as if AI owned the patent on the detachable keyboard06:30
DocScrutinizer05I still take bets on them trying to launch a me-too iFroit device and go the Nokia winphone fate06:30
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: +106:31
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DocScrutinizer05if they do, I promise nobody will remeber their name even, 2 years after launch of first device06:33
DocScrutinizer05you'll find their devices in jabanese 2nd-hand shops, for 20 bucks06:34
DocScrutinizer05japanese06:34
DocScrutinizer05*occasionally*06:35
DocScrutinizer05if at all06:36
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DocScrutinizer05those who don't care about hw-kbs and such stuff are not the customers that will buy a device for the shiny splashy GUI and the nifty stock apps. Those buy an iPhone since their neighbour got one too06:38
DocScrutinizer05the other ones just buy the cheapest thing they can get with their subsidized contract06:39
DocScrutinizer05where's Jolla in that picture?06:39
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DocScrutinizer05cheaper than android/Samsung? hardly06:40
DocScrutinizer05more me-too appeal than iPhone? dream on!06:41
DocScrutinizer05and, of course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE06:42
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Macerhm07:06
Maceri'd love to get another n900.. but am terrified that in about 6 months i'll have another broken one heh07:07
Maceri think i'll stick to my e7 for now07:07
Macermaybe if that breaks07:07
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DocScrutinizer05Macer: stop babbling and get a N900 already07:21
DocScrutinizer05let the USB reinforce by somebody who knows his shit07:22
DocScrutinizer05and don't apply too much force to the keyboard (so modem chip won't snap off the opposite side of PCB)07:22
DocScrutinizer05I had one flexcable connector failure in my first N900, probably due to it being already weak and brekaing when I disassembled device (no, I did this before ;-D)07:24
DocScrutinizer05but that's been it, not other problems with the two devices that are always on since, well, since N900 appeared07:25
DocScrutinizer05on one of them I swapped keymat two times already07:28
jpinxDocScrutinizer05: I use my n900 over ssh a lot - saves wear on the hardware ;)07:31
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DocScrutinizer05I do same, on T900 (devel device). My IroN900 (daily phone) gets plugged to charger ~2 times per day, and pulled out from pouch ~20 times per day, to slide it open and IRC on it07:37
DocScrutinizer05It even dropped to the pavement and I tried to catch it with my foot and instead stepped on it, which left some scars on the screen metal frame07:38
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DocScrutinizer05hmmm07:39
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DocScrutinizer05[notice] repo is back to "normal"09:41
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XATRIXDocScrutinizer05: hi, are you there ?10:47
XATRIXHave a minute ?10:47
DocScrutinizer05a minute, yes10:48
XATRIX2 questions10:48
XATRIX1st, i have non-standart battery, 1700mAh, and it the handset doesn't work with it well10:48
XATRIXIt's charging ok, but it shows fullcharge for quite a long time10:49
XATRIXthen it shows 40% charge at onece10:49
XATRIXand it calculates it as a usual futher10:49
XATRIXhow can i calibrate bme to use hi-capacity cell ?10:50
DocScrutinizer05when you're using standard bme, there's no way to calibrate it10:50
XATRIXDo i have to install battery-patch to make it non-standard ? :D10:50
DocScrutinizer05no10:51
thedead1440didn't Estel_ write bnf especially to calibrate non-standard batteries?10:51
DocScrutinizer05I think bme does some kind of auto-calibration after a while10:51
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DocScrutinizer05nfc what's bnf10:52
XATRIXI don't think it's so intelligent to10:52
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8445210:52
DocScrutinizer05meh10:53
XATRIXSo, there's no way to retrain the bme for this batt ?10:54
XATRIXI think it still count it as a 1300mAhz10:54
DocScrutinizer05possible10:54
DocScrutinizer05I think bme does some kind of auto-calibration after a while10:55
DocScrutinizer05nobody knows for sure what bme does10:55
XATRIXHm.. how can i check for current batt capabilities via sysfs ?10:56
DocScrutinizer05capabilities?10:56
XATRIXInformation10:58
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XATRIXchargin rate,capacity,some vendor info10:58
keriothere's no vendor info, really10:59
DocScrutinizer05lshal|grep battery10:59
kerioexcept for the resistor that gives the supposed full charge "design"10:59
keriowildly inaccurate and meaningless10:59
DocScrutinizer05or not10:59
DocScrutinizer05yep10:59
DocScrutinizer05bogus10:59
kerio`hal-device bme`10:59
DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: you might want to use http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh11:00
DocScrutinizer05start that and follow the instructions on screen (you need i2ctools installed for it)11:00
kerioDocScrutinizer05: both bme and bme-replacement lock the related i2c bus, right?11:00
DocScrutinizer05no, bme-replacement looks at sysfs nodes of bq27200.ko11:01
DocScrutinizer05afaik11:01
kerioDocScrutinizer05: bq27x00-battery is to be considered part of bme-replacement :)11:01
kerioit's only loaded by it11:01
DocScrutinizer05the whole point of bme-replacement11:01
XATRIXi2ctools are known as damageable for this device!11:02
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DocScrutinizer05don't mess with i2c* commands and you're safe11:02
kerioXATRIX: well the problem is not te damage to i2ctools, the problem is the damage to the device itself11:02
kerio*the11:02
XATRIXyes, it's can be hardware-damaged via i2ctool11:02
XATRIXmaybe it's a better idea to make bme-replacement ?11:03
DocScrutinizer05no11:03
DocScrutinizer05I told you it's not mature yet11:03
DocScrutinizer05what's your problem anyway11:03
DocScrutinizer05bme is known to show guesstimates for battery charge, even with standard battery11:04
XATRIXYea11:04
DocScrutinizer05and except for "very low, soon will shut off" you can't tell any useful info from battery charge level anyway11:04
DocScrutinizer05not because it's inprecise but because you don't know about your power consumption to come11:05
keriowell maybe you don't :P11:05
DocScrutinizer05device may shut down 30 min after battery reaches 50% (when watching movie or doing a phonecall) or it may stay up for another 5 days11:06
jpinxfresh battery - many hours on idling then put wifi hotspot on and how much time is left ?11:06
DocScrutinizer05those are the extreme points, all in between is even less predictable11:07
jpinxkerio: everyone has different useage patterns that the software can not know11:07
kerioi'm not talking about the software11:07
kerioi'm talking about myself11:07
kerio~15mA when idling with wifi on11:08
jpinxthen you will know how ong your battery will last ;)11:08
kerioindeed!11:08
kerioluckily, that's kinda easy11:08
kerio"at least until i recharge it, this night"11:09
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DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: seems that bnf stuff is doing proper readout of bq27200 chip, so using my calibrating script it should show best info available about battery. Similarly good info (or better yet) from http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/11:09
jpinxthat'll do ;)11:09
DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail2 will need bash11:10
DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27k-detail-perl not11:11
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DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/bq27200.sh is probably most useful terse info, particularly when called with a period-in-seconds parameter11:11
DocScrutinizer05like `bw27200.sh 30`11:12
XATRIXhttp://fpaste.org/O1nU/11:12
DocScrutinizer05bq*11:12
kerioAverage Current: 250 mA holy shit11:12
keriowtf are you doing with your phone11:13
XATRIXI don't know11:13
XATRIXit's simply chargin right now11:13
XATRIXOh, sorry i forgot11:13
XATRIXMy fridge powered from my phone cell11:14
DocScrutinizer05that's normal for screen backlight on at full brightness11:15
DocScrutinizer05ooh, for calibrating script you should make sure your backlight is set to "always on"11:15
DocScrutinizer05and yes, you rbq27200 chip needs a calibration cycle11:16
DocScrutinizer05it seems pretty decalibrated11:16
XATRIXActually my screen is in suspend11:17
XATRIXonly orange LED is lit on11:17
DocScrutinizer05Last Measured Discharge: 834 mAh :-o11:17
XATRIXIt's completely fucked up11:17
DocScrutinizer05then 250mA is way too much11:17
keriowait, orange led?11:18
kerioare you charging it?11:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah11:18
kerioah yes you are11:18
DocScrutinizer05just thought same11:18
keriothen it's kinda normal11:18
DocScrutinizer05still LMD 834 is either a crappy fake battery or a massively decalibrated bq27k chip11:19
XATRIXBattery Gauge die Temperature: 36 C - on 36 degree it will explode ?11:19
XATRIXIt's KEVA BL-5J chinese cell11:20
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DocScrutinizer05set backlight to always on (either via simple brightness applet, or in xchat), run calibration script. will take ~ 6..8h to complete11:20
DocScrutinizer05the die of bq27200 chip has 36°C11:21
DocScrutinizer05it's basically meaningless11:21
XATRIXwhat does mean die ? death /11:22
XATRIX?11:22
DocScrutinizer05some fools call that "battery temperature" which evidently it isn't11:22
XATRIX:)11:22
DocScrutinizer05die is the chip's silicon wafer11:22
keriodie is also the singular of dice11:22
DocScrutinizer05*the* chip11:22
XATRIXdieelectric ?11:22
DocScrutinizer05http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_die11:24
DocScrutinizer05k, bbl11:25
DocScrutinizer05o/11:25
XATRIXHm... i thought that the "black box" there the circuits are made from the plastic11:25
* DocScrutinizer05 guesses XATRIX' battery actually has 836mAh max capacity11:26
XATRIXDocScrutinizer05: I don't think so11:26
XATRIXLet's recalibrate it11:26
XATRIXShould i simply run # sh calibrate-bq27k.sh ?11:27
XATRIXAnd, what is better to run it now, while charging ? Or to wait until it gets fully charged, and then run recalibrate ?11:28
DocScrutinizer05it will ask you to charge every minute until battery full anyway11:29
DocScrutinizer05so simply start it right away, after setting backlight to always on11:29
DocScrutinizer05and max brightness11:30
XATRIXOK11:30
DocScrutinizer05~bq-calibrate is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/calibrate-bq27k.sh11:30
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0511:30
DocScrutinizer05will need root to run ;-)11:31
XATRIXOk, max brightness is on11:32
DocScrutinizer05it first charges battery completely (while nagging you every minute to do this), then switches off charging and auto-shutdown and thus discharges battery til calibration11:32
DocScrutinizer05then stops discharge and charging kicks in again11:32
XATRIXquite complicated11:33
DocScrutinizer05quite automagic11:33
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freemangordonPali: I think it is you who should answer to Tony Lindgren re secure PPA API patch11:33
DocScrutinizer05simply start it and let sit til battery is charged completely and script stopped - after ~8h or so11:34
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freemangordonPali: I don;t see his question being technical11:34
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DocScrutinizer05secure PPA API?11:35
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: Pali is trying to upstream thumb kernel patch11:36
DocScrutinizer05aah11:36
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XATRIXIt asks me to use Fastcharger11:36
DocScrutinizer05this has an API?11:36
XATRIXI have only USB cable for now11:36
DocScrutinizer05hmmm11:36
DocScrutinizer05should work as well11:36
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/2/28/11611:37
DocScrutinizer05it just takes even longer then11:37
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DocScrutinizer05maybe 2h more than with fastcharger11:37
DocScrutinizer05anyway you shouldn't use device too much during calibration11:38
XATRIXOk,i will switch flight mode on11:38
DocScrutinizer05if you abort the script, you have to start all over again11:39
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XATRIXShoud i leave wireless on ?11:40
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DocScrutinizer05ooh, you have to make sure that bq27200.sh is in your current working directory11:43
DocScrutinizer05I.E. you need that script in your root's homedir and set it executable: `chmod +x ./bq27200.sh`11:44
XATRIXYes, i did it11:45
XATRIXAlready solved the issue11:45
DocScrutinizer05or you comment out the line 17: ./bq27200.sh;   in that script11:45
DocScrutinizer05aah ok11:45
DocScrutinizer05if the script fails nevertheless on that line - no problem, just `start bme` and you're done11:47
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DocScrutinizer05starting bme will switch off backlight, you can re-enable it by two times engaging lockslider switch11:48
XATRIXhm11:50
XATRIXCan i simply restart the device ?11:50
DocScrutinizer05why? what for?11:50
XATRIXto reenable bme11:50
DocScrutinizer05when?11:50
DocScrutinizer05sure11:50
XATRIXif the script fails11:50
DocScrutinizer05but typing `start bme` is simpler, and also only needed if script aborts prematurely due to an error11:51
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DocScrutinizer05btw as long as it charges and prints that line every minute, you can abort and resume the script and don't lose anything by doing so11:53
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jon_ykerio: ping12:38
keriopong12:38
keriohi12:38
jon_ywhere do I put the ram file?12:38
jon_yfor rescueOS with uboot12:38
xprismhi all12:38
kerioput both 2.6.whatever and rescueos-initrd-whatever in /opt/boot12:39
jon_yhi xprism12:39
kerioput the .item file in /etc/bootmenu.d12:39
keriothen run u-boot-update-bootmenu12:39
jon_yok, thanks12:39
jon_yI should move /boot stuff to /opt/boot12:39
jon_ykerio: any ideas about putting backup menu into a uboot item?12:41
keriodoesn't work like that12:41
jon_yhow does backupmenu work anyway?12:42
kerioit uses the fanoush bootmenu12:43
keriofrom a booted system12:43
kerioit uses fremantle as an initrd12:43
jon_yfreemantle as in the normal init route?12:44
jon_ys/freemantle//12:44
infobotjon_y meant:  as in the normal init route?12:44
jon_yhmm, not exactly itemized12:46
jon_yhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1072789&postcount=91512:46
xprism http://ifile.it/d3ehfn2 no such file12:49
xprismany mirror?12:49
jon_ywhat is that?12:51
jon_ykerio: what is fiasco-image-update-ask again?12:52
kerioit asks before flashing the kernel, if the name differs too much12:52
jon_yok, I wasn't around for the past 2 months12:52
jon_yand the update to u-boot-tools?12:52
kerioidk, do it12:53
xprismthe zip archive from this link http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1072789&postcount=91512:53
jon_yis that Pali's?12:53
kerioyeah12:53
jon_yI mean from the repo12:53
jon_ystrange that it never showed in HAM when I ran the update yesterday12:54
jon_yit is in apt-get upgrade though12:54
jon_yawesome, running apt-get upgrade, no breaks on this train12:54
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XATRIXDocScrutinizer05: online ?12:59
jon_ykerio: where do you find package changelogs?13:00
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jon_yis the packges site still up?13:00
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jon_yhmm, how do I disable desktop orientation lock?13:09
jon_ythe gconf way is no longer working13:09
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vi__yo13:25
vi__whats fresh?13:25
jon_yvi__: any idea how to disable desktop autorotate?13:28
jon_ygconf way not working anymore13:28
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sardinihello13:51
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DocScrutinizer51~ping14:06
infobot~pong14:06
kerioDocScrutinizer51: ping14:07
DocScrutinizer51gnip14:08
keriodamn that's a lot of lag14:08
jaskaouter space14:08
DocScrutinizer51you have noooooo idea14:09
DocScrutinizer51anything else except lag?14:10
kerionah14:10
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jon_yDocScrutinizer51: ping14:14
DocScrutinizer51que?14:15
jon_ydo you happen to know why after upgrading, the disable desktop rotate key no longer works?14:15
DocScrutinizer51no14:15
jon_ydesktop_orientation_lock set via gconftool-214:15
jon_yso, any ideas what else to try?14:15
DocScrutinizer51ask in maemo-ssu14:16
jon_yok14:16
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XATRIXDocScrutinizer05: any idea, how can i make my Conversation modes to work? In Online mode - it play sound and gives popup-message on screen14:32
XATRIXOn DND it should only write the message to the log, no popups nor sound should appear14:32
XATRIXBut it does the same as Online mode14:32
XATRIXfor my ICQ,XMPP,Skype ...14:33
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XATRIXDocScrutinizer05: My handset still charging ... It tells me TTE: 11-12 minutes and it goes still over 30 minutes unchanged.15:37
XATRIXWill it ever stop chargine ?15:37
XATRIXOr it's gonna stop after the cell explode ?15:38
DocScrutinizer05it eventually should stop15:51
DocScrutinizer05at least I'd hope it does15:51
DocScrutinizer05you might need to lock the screen for 15min15:52
DocScrutinizer05sorry, seems the script has flaws15:52
DocScrutinizer05backlight on might keep charging from ever finishing15:52
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XATRIXSorry, i haven't understood15:57
XATRIXAnything i can do to fix it ?15:57
XATRIXIt's currently 11 minutes TTE and it doesn't get further15:57
XATRIXMy charge LED isn't lit15:58
XATRIXBut the screen batter indicator tells me about ongoing charge15:59
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DocScrutinizer05seems jacekowski and xes found the root cause of the hashsum issue16:04
DocScrutinizer05XATRIX: lock the screen for 15 minutes16:05
DocScrutinizer05use lockslider switch16:05
DocScrutinizer05TTE?? TTF!16:06
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XATRIXcurrently  TTF: 65535 TTE: 11 minutes16:07
XATRIXMy screen locked allready16:07
DocScrutinizer05then it's DIScharging and messing with it will invalidate the learning cycle16:07
XATRIX(16:07
XATRIXrestart it ?16:07
DocScrutinizer05TTE:11min and not actually finishing after 11min is expected, that's why we calibrate16:08
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DocScrutinizer05nah, let it continue do its thing, with backlight on16:08
XATRIXSo, i simply have to wait ?16:08
DocScrutinizer05yes16:08
DocScrutinizer05watch voltage and NAC drop16:09
DocScrutinizer05voltage needs to drop to some 3.4 volt or so16:09
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DocScrutinizer05while TTE is a guestimate based on borked calibration values, like "last measured discharge: 834mAh"16:10
DocScrutinizer05it's expected to be terribly off16:11
XATRIXHm16:15
XATRIXhow can i check V?16:15
XATRIXbq22..sh?16:15
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DocScrutinizer05it's written in, err not this script16:17
XATRIX?16:17
DocScrutinizer05so yeah, open a second shel, run bq27200.sh 15 in it16:17
XATRIXok16:17
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DocScrutinizer05I admit this calib script been a shoot from the hip16:19
DocScrutinizer05took 30min to write, or somesuch16:19
DocScrutinizer05I only wrote it for kerio, who then never used it ;-P16:20
XATRIXcrap, it stopped16:20
XATRIXbacklight is off16:20
XATRIXbut i can see no error in term16:20
DocScrutinizer05good, so it finished16:20
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XATRIXnot usre, i see chargin ongoing16:20
DocScrutinizer05two times lockswitch will revive the backlight16:21
XATRIXnope16:21
XATRIXit doesnt16:21
DocScrutinizer05wait a moment16:21
XATRIXah16:21
XATRIXok16:21
XATRIXlockswitch, i though i should 2 time slide it out/in16:22
DocScrutinizer05there's a sleep 30 and two sleep 10 in it iirc16:22
XATRIXyes, it's still ongoing16:22
XATRIXbut the script finished16:22
XATRIXmaybe i have to start it again?16:23
DocScrutinizer05it should have printed your new values for bq2720016:23
XATRIXyep16:23
XATRIXwhich one should i tell you ?16:23
DocScrutinizer05./bq27200.sh;16:24
DocScrutinizer05echo '************* RESUMING CHARGING *************';16:24
DocScrutinizer05echo "starting bme will cause backlight and indicator LED go dark, use lockswitch to revert to normal"16:24
XATRIXyes i saw it16:24
DocScrutinizer05so calibration is basically finished16:24
DocScrutinizer05you should see a new value for "last measured discharge: xxx mAh" and "cycles since last learning cycle: nn"16:25
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DocScrutinizer05cycles since last learning cycle shall be 016:25
XATRIXLast Measured Discharge: 1213mAh16:25
DocScrutinizer05look16:26
XATRIXCycles:0 Total Cycle Count : 15616:26
DocScrutinizer05this might not be the correct value yet16:26
DocScrutinizer05(LMD)16:26
XATRIXeeprom data:16:27
XATRIXILMD=186916:27
DocScrutinizer05it only adjusts by 1/6 ber learning cycle. Yours been *terribly* decalibrated, so it might need another calibration/learning to get LMD right16:27
DocScrutinizer05ILMD is irrelevant16:27
DocScrutinizer05Last Measured Discharge (LMD) is the interesting value16:28
XATRIXAhh16:28
DocScrutinizer05it jumped from 834 to 1213 iirc16:28
XATRIXOk, do i have to simply start the script again ?16:28
DocScrutinizer05yes, you can do that16:28
XATRIXOr i have to discharge it and retrain calibration16:28
DocScrutinizer05keep the bq27200.sh 15 loop running in other shell16:30
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XATRIXhttp://fpaste.org/ezi9/16:32
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XATRIXAnd the charging is still going on16:32
XATRIXOk, i'll restart the procedure at home, in a few hours16:32
XATRIXIf i start it now, i would have to leave the handset at work16:32
XATRIXCSOC: 11 % RSOC: 11 % ?16:33
XATRIXAnd why do i have to keep backlight full on ?16:34
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XATRIXwhat does mean CSOC: 26 % RSOC: 26 % ?17:19
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DocScrutinizer05you actually don't17:34
DocScrutinizer05backlight is for speeding up discharge17:34
DocScrutinizer05but alas it keeps charging from finishing, so discharging never starts17:35
kerioDocScrutinizer05: are you sure? i remember the calibration script working17:39
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vakkovGood evening! I'm experimenting with a nitdroid kernel but I get a kernel panic soon after the partition is mounted and init started. I'm using u-boot by Pali and I wonder how can I record the whole log from the starting of u-boot to the kernel panic - something like that: http://e2e.ti.com/support/embedded/linux/f/354/t/218020.aspx17:58
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XATRIXCrap it still charging18:00
eccerr0ri've found that charge21.sh "rate" ... if it ever goes negative it will never fully charge, as well as if it's less than 100 it will take forever to charge...18:01
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: actully you might be right, dunno what I checked for to detect charge end state, for sure not bq24150 or bme state18:16
kerioVDQ18:16
keriocharge as normal until VDQ, disable charging until EDV1, start charging as normal18:16
kerioit's really, really simple :318:16
DocScrutinizer05makes sense18:17
kerioPali: did you change the bme-replacement so it allows for calibration?18:17
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iluminator105where can i get X3-00 Micro USB Charging Block in the us18:33
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iluminator105most of the parts in far of places i just need one18:38
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RST38ha119:08
DocScrutinizer05b219:09
sixwheeledbeastwell you suck my battleship ;-), e619:11
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fizzieThat was one small battleship.19:17
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iluminator105i tried to solder the the microusb unit back in place melted the plastic inside microusb unit19:30
eccerr0rhow did you reconnect the wires?19:31
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keriofizzie: no, he /sucked/ his battleship19:31
iluminator105none19:31
iluminator105albeit this is first time ever i touched a soldering iron19:32
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eccerr0rwhen you rip the microusb out, you pull out the foil with it...need to reconnect the foil.19:32
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fizziekerio: I guess it can be pretty sucky after a single hit, aye.19:32
iluminator105cell phone repair guy near me closed down, other guys says he only repairs apples19:32
iluminator105eccerr0r, what foil19:32
eccerr0rthe copper tracks on the board19:33
* kerio pictures some guy repairing a fruit19:33
iluminator105eccerr0r, can you link me to a pic19:33
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eccerr0rI don't have any pictures, but normally when you rip something off a board physically, you take metal tracks off the board, not just the device off the board.19:34
iluminator105eccerr0r, i figured out the problem was that i didnt have any flux19:35
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eccerr0rno19:35
eccerr0ryou were probably trying to solder to the FR4 with no pad...19:35
iluminator105i didnt want to use flux for copper pipes19:36
sixwheeledbeastkerio: well spotted19:36
iluminator105i figure i need flux, and flux point needle, and low melting point solder19:37
iluminator105and twisters19:37
sixwheeledbeastelectronics sloder normally has flux in it.19:37
iluminator105hmm...19:38
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sixwheeledbeastiluminator105: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=7141419:39
iluminator105apple repair guy: i only repair apples. I: you dont say that on your website or outside the store; apple repair guy: get out19:40
kerioi thought the pads below the battery were for rapuyama's usb19:41
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iluminator105_tt is overcharging base phone for rizon is $50; i was hoping a cheap linux phone would come out for rizon by now19:52
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XATRIXDocScrutinizer05: online ?20:04
XATRIXI started calibrate again, but now it doesn't show me anything20:04
XATRIXSimply tells me "Please charge battery! Use fastcharger!" every minute20:05
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tx0hhi20:05
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XATRIXhttp://fpaste.org/ZI2w/ - that's current data20:05
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tx0hi'm a bit confused by all the missing links i follow on maemo.org, is there a central download site for the emmc variations? (8GB /home...)20:06
jacekowskino20:07
jacekowskiofficial one is 3G iirc20:07
tx0hwhy is that? i mean the site is full with dead links :-(20:07
XATRIXjacekowski: 2G20:08
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jacekowskieverything else is unsupported20:08
jacekowskiit's easy to modify it though20:08
jacekowskiif you open the file with hex editor20:08
tx0hwhich file?20:08
keriojust... use fdisk?20:08
kerioidk20:08
jacekowskitx0h: emmc image20:09
tx0hwhich one? i can't find any20:09
jacekowskiofficial one20:09
jacekowskifrom tables-dev20:10
jacekowskior20:10
jacekowski~skeiron20:10
infobotfrom memory, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/   http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post131514320:10
tx0hthis site is down20:10
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tx0h(the official)20:10
jacekowskiuse skeiron then20:10
tx0hskeiron seems to be outdated?20:10
jacekowskino20:11
jacekowskiit's latest20:11
jacekowskihttp://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/nokia_N900/RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin20:11
tx0hhmmm.. isn't there any planing to get this hosted somewhere under maemo.org?20:13
tx0heven the wiki pages contain all the dead links20:13
tx0hhard enough to get through all the forum threads :-)20:14
sixwheeledbeasttx0h: they won't be dead links when the new infra is finished20:14
tx0haaaah, so there are plannings! great!20:15
sixwheeledbeastno point changing hundreds of links to put them back20:15
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tx0hrepartition means, make a backup of /home, do fdisk, create ext3 fs and get the data back, right?20:18
tx0hok, /home and /home/user/MyDocs20:20
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tx0hFailed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/b/busybox-power/busybox-power_1.20.2power5_armel.deb  Hash Sum mismatch :-(20:23
eccerr0r~mirror20:24
infobotmirror is probably http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error20:24
jacekowskitx0h: yeah, that's work in progress20:26
jacekowskitx0h: it will be fixed after migration is complete20:26
sixwheeledbeasttx0h: hash sum mismatch on extras-devel repo use mirrors above.20:27
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tx0hi got it frp, freemantle-1.3 now20:28
tx0hfrom20:28
sixwheeledbeastFYI only one "e" in fremantle20:29
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sixwheeledbeastwell two, but you get me20:30
n900-dk_What is 'fremantle' - I mean the word..?20:30
tx0hsure, np.20:30
eccerr0rFremantle, Australia?20:30
freemangordonn900-dk_: some kind of a wind20:31
freemangordoniirc20:31
Siceloa wind20:31
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n900-dk_like Scirocco?20:32
Siceloall the maemo 'nicknames' refer to winds. even skeiron has something to do with wind :-P20:35
tx0hif you do a repartitioning, how do you do the backup? with cpio?20:35
n900-dk_will wait for the VW Fremantle ;)20:35
eccerr0rheh20:36
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eccerr0rhmm..i need to get a broken usb n900 to try surgery on...20:40
iluminator105i might sell my mine20:42
tx0hi have one with broken usb :-(20:42
iluminator105depends on the price20:42
eccerr0rthat is a problem, not sure how much I'd pay for one to practice disassembly, so I don't break my intact one...20:44
tx0hit's not hard do disassamble it20:45
tx0hbut my copper pads are gone with the connector :-(20:45
iluminator105its very easy to disassemble and assemble so much so if i knew it was this simple when my strip broke i would have fixed it myself20:45
eccerr0rhmm.  yeah it seems simple, I'd just hate to break something when it's working... the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mantra...20:47
eccerr0rthen again it was a broken design to begin with...20:47
iluminator105why do you say its a broken design20:48
eccerr0rit's too easy to break :)20:48
kerioi don't use my usb port much, for that precise reason20:48
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iluminator105not as easy to break as a crapple20:51
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tx0heccerr0r: there are users who secure the usb port before they could break20:52
eccerr0ryes, that's what I was thinking about doing...20:52
iluminator105if i had a crapple it wouldnt last more than a day20:52
eccerr0rI was hoping to see if I can get a broken one to practice disassembly, if I break a broken one more then oh well, it was for learning...20:53
iluminator105like i said its very straight forward its no big deal to take one a part; i am saying this initial i too was afraid of taking it a part20:54
iluminator105look at the pics online you will see what i mean20:54
tx0hthere is a youtube video on how to do it20:54
eccerr0rnext thing is whether I want to add epoxy along with adding solder to the foil pads...20:55
eccerr0r"double fix" :D20:55
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Sicelo~usb-fix20:57
infobotusbfix is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)20:57
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iluminator105after i fix my usb i will sell shop to fix phones on weekends, i know there is demand in my area20:59
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iluminator105setup*20:59
iluminator105including crapples20:59
iluminator105bbl20:59
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tx0hhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=2721:02
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tx0hunfortunately just this bad picture :-(21:04
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freemangordonLuke-Jr: ping22:00
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DocScrutinizer05> >If I ask questions in an email, it is because I am desirous of getting the requested information.<< (no comment)22:36
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n900-dk_~mirror22:46
infobotsomebody said mirror was http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error22:46
n900-dk_no mirror for extras-testing?22:47
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jacekowskin900-dk_: if you feel like testing stuff  http://213.128.137.22/23:02
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jacekowskin900-dk_: as in, use 213.128.137.2223:02
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n900-dk_nm, I was looking for unzip and thought it was in extras-testing, but found it in extras-devel after it got enabled :)23:10
DocScrutinizer05searching for technically savvy volunteers to test *new* rmo23:11
DocScrutinizer05with hashsums suppoed to be fixed23:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i think jacekowski made me test it23:11
keriobut i'm not sure23:11
DocScrutinizer05and *maybe* even autobuilder delivering new updates23:11
jacekowskionly extras-devel have new sums23:12
jacekowskii'll have to rebuild everything else23:12
DocScrutinizer05do we have hashsum errors on other repos than extras-devel?23:13
jacekowskihard to tell23:13
jacekowskii would have to regenerate all sums and then compare23:13
DocScrutinizer05I can't recall any reports23:13
jacekowskii suppose other repos don't get many updates23:14
jacekowskiso it's less likely to go wrong23:14
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: please give a short instruction how to use *new* rmo23:14
n900-dk_just had one in extras-testing23:14
n900-dk_Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/u/unzip/unzip_6.0-maemo5_armel.deb  Hash Sum mismatch23:14
jacekowskin900-dk_: that's old rmo23:15
n900-dk_ohh, sry23:15
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but valuable info23:15
DocScrutinizer05thanks!23:15
jacekowskii'll just rebuild everything23:15
DocScrutinizer05sure23:15
n900-dk_I will be happy to test the new rmo with the examples, I have been bothering you guys about23:20
jacekowskiwell, use 213.128.137.22 instead of repository.maemo.org23:21
jacekowskiat the moment extras-devel should be clear, and everything should rehash within next couple hours23:22
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xesjacekowski: they should specify it in hosts.. right?23:24
jacekowskiwell, that's an option23:24
jacekowskior just modification to /etc/apt/sources.list23:25
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n900-dk_no hashsum errors for maegios and shortcutd on new rmo.  \o/  You guys rule the world!23:42
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XATRIXWhat does mean CSOC: 50 % RSOC: 50 % ?23:49
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer05: ^23:50
DocScrutinizer05:-)23:51
DocScrutinizer05FWIW I suggest patching /etc/hosts23:51
jacekowskinot htat23:51
jacekowski22:49 < XATRIX> What does mean CSOC: 50 % RSOC: 50 % ?23:51
DocScrutinizer05that means that bq27200 thinks your cell is charged 50%23:52
DocScrutinizer05if you ever see CSOC and RSOC differ, let me know23:52
XATRIX:)23:53
DocScrutinizer05compensated State Of Charge - or sth23:53
DocScrutinizer05and Raw State Of Charge23:53
DocScrutinizer05on extreme loads and/or temperatures CSOC might be lower by a few percent23:54
DocScrutinizer05iirc23:54
XATRIXI feel myself like a Gordon Freeman with sucha techy stuf :)))23:54
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XATRIXOK, will let it discharge up to morning , will tell you if i stay alive without nuke explosion tomorrow23:59

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