| sombragris | I lost my N900 last April, and I just bought a replacement one week ago :S | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| sombragris | ok | 00:00 |
| sombragris | hope everything goes OK | 00:00 |
| sombragris | DocScrutinizer05 : ty for the tip | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sombragris: we're just in a double trouble | 00:00 |
| sombragris | I know, don't worry. Let's hope it gets sorted out | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I really have no time left to add your bug report to tracker, however welcome and appreciated | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please remind me tomorrow | 00:01 |
| sombragris | will do, don't worry | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 00:01 |
| sombragris | writing mail to council with bug report now | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and welcome back! :-) | 00:02 |
| sombragris | ty :) | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for mail, so I can deal with it tomorrow (or qwazix or MT will do) | 00:02 |
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| sombragris | mail sent to council at m.o. | 00:07 |
| sombragris | btw does anyone know where can I get mscp ? it is reported as a missing dependency of tweetian | 00:08 |
| sombragris | (I'm trying to install a good twitter client) | 00:08 |
| sombragris | unfortunately TweeGo cannot login into twitter anymore :S | 00:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sombragris: hah, thanks, now I see we already have that bug in our tracker, reported by thedead1440 24h ago. Thanks anyway | 00:12 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: rob bauer is scaring off every board member | 00:16 |
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| Estel_ | oh god. Lately, we had a brief talk about games here, so I know that there are gamers amongst fellow maemo members. | 00:17 |
| Estel_ | For those, I recommend playing completely unknown (to mass-public) title "Richard & Alice". It have been years since I've seen such heartwrenching, sad, but powerful story in a gamep literature, or movie | 00:18 |
| Estel_ | it's just a this kind of tale that doesn't give answers, and I'm not sure if raises a questions - just alters something inside you. Absolutely top-notch, and I recommend it from the deep of my heart, to anyone, who won't get scared by retro-graphic (as story is all that matters here) | 00:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >> While I have all confidence in Mr. Bauer’s expertise and enthusiasm, I must emphatically make my stance on the fact that it behooves the Maemo Community to demand that other Maemo Community members occupy the remaining seats<< | 00:24 |
| sombragris | DocScrutinizer05 : right. I had a great talk with him yesterday | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with whom? | 00:24 |
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| sombragris | with thedead1440 | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah | 00:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | thedead1440 is a nice guy, indeed | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wish he was already awake | 00:25 |
| sombragris | btw: I welcome any suggestion for good twitter clients | 00:26 |
| sombragris | need that for work (I work as a CM) | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: ping!!! | 00:26 |
| Woody14619 | hi :) Was chatting in another window. | 00:27 |
| kerio | Estel_: have you ever played the last express? | 00:27 |
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| freemangordon | kerio: I guess we need a working board to "officialy" take over from Nokia | 00:34 |
| Estel_ | kerio sure | 00:34 |
| kerio | freemangordon: yeah but now we have only one dude in the board | 00:34 |
| Estel_ | it was absolutely gorgeous | 00:35 |
| kerio | which means that new members must join | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | kerio: yep, and thats why it is not a good thing | 00:35 |
| kerio | which means that we can start voting no on everything rob bauer says, out of principle | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | because we run out of time | 00:35 |
| Estel_ | well, richard & Alice is quite different, though. don't expect happy ending, too, no matter how good gamer you're | 00:35 |
| freemangordon | *are running | 00:36 |
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| Estel_ | kerio ^ to the point, in which I still cant find a place for myself, after finishing it few hours earlier. Stories that affect you in such way are a rarity, and it doesn't matter if you talk about literature, games, or movies... | 00:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | voting time, *cough* | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [general announcement] If I can reach everybody, council will hold a extemporaneous meeting tomorrow 1800UTC on #maemo-meeting. Single topic: Tim Samoff resigning from HiFo BoD and next steps to take (which are elections in 4 weeks from now on) | 01:25 |
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| Estel_ | just out of curiosity, have tim stated reasons for resignation? | 01:47 |
| Estel_ | or was it regular "lack of time" blabla? | 01:47 |
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| Estel_ | nvm, found his resignation letter | 01:51 |
| Estel_ | well, he basically encourage to give more power into Council hands, which is funny, as with board election in 4 weeks, everything will stay the same, just delayed for 4 weeks | 01:51 |
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| Estel_ | changing responsibilities require changing HiFo funny and unrealistic statute, as - of course - no one listened, when few people cried that it's wrong to the very core | 01:52 |
| Estel_ | in my personal opinions, without merging hifo and council positions into one (so only board or only hifo with merged competitions remains), we're doomed to pathetic power games, as we seen them whole time | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* yes you were right | 01:54 |
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| Estel_ | ...which, btw, was also the the thing that I've tried to warn about, and no one listened | 01:55 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, what a subtle irony in your digital voice :P | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually not | 01:56 |
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| Estel_ | so, will council come forward with proposition of changing statute to smth sensible, instead of electing new board? | 01:57 |
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| Estel_ | or it depends on tommorow's meeting? | 01:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it depends on tomorrow's meeting | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are clear statutes about changing statutes | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think we first will suggest successors for Tim and ask board to consider to appoint them | 02:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | idoru: help | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | idoru: ? | 03:53 |
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| Aoyagi_joytop | Is there an emulator for the maemo browser? MicroB or whatever it's called. | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? emulator? | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who's emulating what? | 08:57 |
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| Aoyagi_joytop | Something like Opera has, but I can't link it now due to weird outage of opera.com | 09:22 |
| Aoyagi_joytop | http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/opera-mobile-emulator/ that | 09:23 |
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| XATRIX | Hi guys, anyone knows how to merge folders in mail application ? | 10:03 |
| XATRIX | I have Sent folder that is initial for mail system, but my actual folder looks like custom | 10:05 |
| XATRIX | i'm using IMAP proto to access mail | 10:05 |
| XATRIX | You know, there're custom folder you can subscribe to | 10:05 |
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| XATRIX | So, my actual mails are stored inside sucha a folder, against to be stored in default Sent | 10:06 |
| XATRIX | How can i change settings for ? | 10:06 |
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| t4nk288 | hello guys, u want to ask you is there some facebook program that i can use and get notifications by some kind of light or sound? im asking because i do it myself, it's not automatical... | 10:19 |
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| t4nk288 | I want to ask * | 10:19 |
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| XATRIX | Can't connect to CSSU currently | 10:29 |
| XATRIX | Headset it has been updated, and Unable to connect to repository.maemo.org | 10:30 |
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| XATRIX | Also, is it possible to change I/O sheduller to noop in kernel ? | 10:44 |
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| XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: http://david.gnedt.eu/blog/wl1251/ UAPSD (WMM power save) no yes yes | 11:19 |
| XATRIX | Who told me that it is not effeicient ? | 11:20 |
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| _shadowx | XATRIX, echo noop > /sys/block/$device/queue/scheduler | 11:47 |
| _shadowx | not sure if noop part of the default kernel, but KP has it. | 11:47 |
| _shadowx | p.s. $device should be mmcblk0 (or mmcblk1 the memory card) | 11:48 |
| XATRIX | yep | 11:49 |
| XATRIX | How can i script it , to be applied every reboot ? | 11:49 |
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| _shadowx | Depends at witch stage of the boot you want to switch to it... but i guess adding the line to /etc/init.d/rcS should work,if i remember correctly , there are few other kernel setting set by rcS | 11:53 |
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| _shadowx | http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=974307 check out this thread. short description of how to make ur own scripts that run at startup. | 11:55 |
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| XATRIX | !seen Pali | 12:07 |
| XATRIX | ~seen pali | 12:07 |
| infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 11h 22m 25s ago, saying: 'I'm going sleep too, bye :-)'. | 12:07 |
| XATRIX | crap :( | 12:07 |
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| XATRIX | Anyone use protocol plugins for the Conversation ? | 12:21 |
| XATRIX | Actually, skype proto | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | ~mirror | 12:23 |
| infobot | i heard mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error | 12:23 |
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| XATRIX | No, my question is: There're modes "Available DND Offline" | 12:27 |
| XATRIX | In available mode i have screen notification & sound | 12:27 |
| XATRIX | I have the same crap while in DND | 12:27 |
| XATRIX | ??!?! | 12:28 |
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| XATRIX | How can i fix it ? I need it only record the messages to the chat window | 12:35 |
| XATRIX | Without screen pop-up notification & sound in DND mode | 12:35 |
| XATRIX | Also, i found Mozilla firefox browser in Ovi store | 12:36 |
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| XATRIX | And it looks like it installs Fennec while | 12:36 |
| XATRIX | Is it capable flash/HTML5 ? | 12:36 |
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| grummund | had my n900 for a couple of months now... | 13:01 |
| grummund | just discovered the marbles game | 13:01 |
| grummund | impossible! :p | 13:02 |
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| jon_y | kerio: ping | 13:03 |
| jon_y | you still have your uboot+rescurOS bins? | 13:03 |
| kerio | pong | 13:04 |
| kerio | my what | 13:04 |
| kerio | ? | 13:04 |
| jon_y | rescueOS | 13:04 |
| jon_y | I just got my n900 fixed | 13:04 |
| jon_y | screen replaced | 13:04 |
| kerio | you don't need uboot to launch rescueos | 13:05 |
| kerio | ~rescueos | 13:05 |
| infobot | rumour has it, rescue-os is http://206.253.166.96/N900/rescueOS/ | 13:05 |
| jon_y | I was planning to add rescueOS to the uboot menu | 13:05 |
| kerio | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/2196041 | 13:05 |
| jon_y | thanks | 13:06 |
| jon_y | and backup menu? | 13:06 |
| jon_y | ~backupmenu | 13:06 |
| infobot | well, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 13:06 |
| jon_y | awesome, will do that too | 13:07 |
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| XATRIX | kerio: http://fpaste.org/IAFM/ | 13:20 |
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| XATRIX | Any ideas why it doesn't go to C4 powersaving ? | 13:21 |
| XATRIX | I did no overclock, voltmod, or anything that can harm | 13:21 |
| XATRIX | since reflashed | 13:21 |
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| clownish | are the repositorys down again? | 13:24 |
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| XATRIX | Seems like | 13:29 |
| kerio | XATRIX: skyhost | 13:30 |
| XATRIX | kerio: ? | 13:31 |
| kerio | skype | 13:31 |
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| XATRIX | What's with it ? | 13:31 |
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| kerio | it does shit | 13:31 |
| kerio | all the time | 13:31 |
| XATRIX | What kind of ? | 13:32 |
| XATRIX | touching the CPU ? | 13:32 |
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| XATRIX | ~microb | 13:36 |
| infobot | i heard microb is Mozilla based browser for maemo, built on Gecko by Nokia for their Tablet devices line, http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ - http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/index.xml | 13:36 |
| XATRIX | ~microb download | 13:36 |
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| XATRIX | ~microb repo | 13:36 |
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| XATRIX | 100 kΩ 1250mAh (Original BL-5J battery) 90 kΩ 1000mAh 80 kΩ 862mA 78 kΩ 740mAh | 14:02 |
| XATRIX | What if i have 1700 cell ? | 14:02 |
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| XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: ? | 15:29 |
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| kerio | hold on, so now the one appointed board member appointed two more members? | 17:19 |
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| thedead1440 | kerio: yup. However, its a double-edged sword; if elections are called Nokia may just stop all discussions and nothing is transferred properly. OTOH it seems the other 2 people especially woody are sane people with much more technical know-how than Rob so woody especially can co-op with Council on sane things to move forward quickly... | 17:24 |
| XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: are you there ? | 17:25 |
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| XATRIX | http://fpaste.org/aOJY/ -that is without skype | 17:26 |
| XATRIX | Sounds if my CPU was completely HALTed | 17:26 |
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| divVerent | as I cannot reach repository.maemo.org despite it being up again supposedly... what IP should it be resolving to? | 17:55 |
| thedead1440 | divVerent: 188.117.59.205 | 17:57 |
| divVerent | hm... it does seem to have some problems then | 17:58 |
| thedead1440 | oh yes there is an issue with one of the blades. the sysadmins are on it since a few hours already. | 17:59 |
| divVerent | oh, ok | 17:59 |
| divVerent | in the meantime... I did the mistake of switching to skeiron's repo mirrors for now, knowing they are somewhat outdated... but now apt-get dist-upgrade fails with weird errors (weird, as I cannot figure out manually what is wrong) | 18:00 |
| divVerent | http://paste.debian.net/239942/ | 18:00 |
| divVerent | of upstart it only can mean one version, which depends on a busybox I have... so it doesn't make sense to fail | 18:01 |
| divVerent | so, anyone know how to tell apt to show more detail on why it fails? | 18:01 |
| thedead1440 | skeiron's mirrors are not outdated as repos haven't been updated in quite a few months. dist-upgrade has always been discouraged so why do it? | 18:02 |
| divVerent | because upgrade shows 999 packages as "kept back" | 18:03 |
| thedead1440 | i've no idea what you may have messed up; are on a cssu version? maybe you have added the wrong mirror? | 18:03 |
| divVerent | no CSSU yet, that's what Iw anted to do soon... | 18:04 |
| thedead1440 | did you add any community repos? | 18:04 |
| divVerent | I however did add the extras-devel repo to install openmediaplayer, but used apt-pinning to pin down the extras-devel to priority 1 | 18:04 |
| divVerent | so I am now undoing that part and see if the kept back ones go away | 18:04 |
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| divVerent | no, still are there | 18:04 |
| thedead1440 | no idea on what's gone wrong. Maybe ask kerio :) | 18:05 |
| kerio | dist-upgrade has never been supposed to work | 18:05 |
| divVerent | ah, I think I figured it out... I did add the community repo, but did not get any updates from it yet | 18:05 |
| thedead1440 | community repo is CSSU-Stable | 18:05 |
| kerio | divVerent: halt | 18:05 |
| kerio | you're not supposed to blindly upgrade from the cssu repo | 18:06 |
| divVerent | but how else? | 18:06 |
| kerio | install community-ssu-enabler, run it | 18:06 |
| kerio | it'll uninstall the nokia metapackage and install the cssu one | 18:06 |
| divVerent | THAT is the info I was missing | 18:06 |
| divVerent | yes, it is the nokia metapackage keeping things back | 18:06 |
| divVerent | but now that I removed the community package, it's only 4 kept back ones, which includes a libcurl update | 18:07 |
| divVerent | where to get community-ssu-enabler? it's not in the "community" repo | 18:07 |
| divVerent | or is it so new it's not on skeiron yet? | 18:07 |
| divVerent | if that's the case, I'll just wait | 18:08 |
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| thedead1440 | http://skeiron.org/repo/repository.maemo.org/community/pool/fremantle/free/c/community-ssu-enabler/community-ssu-enabler_0.6-7_all.deb | 18:08 |
| divVerent | odd that I didn't find it then... I'll see what I did wrong then | 18:09 |
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| divVerent | ah, my bad, didn't run apt-get update :P | 18:09 |
| divVerent | (I did the changes to skeiron's repos manually via vi of the file managed by HAM, so I can easily restore the real URLs by just entering the HAM settings and closing them again) | 18:10 |
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| divVerent | great, looks like it all works. Although the only visible CSSU change for me (using stable) is that I can finally have a FMTX button in the status dropdown | 18:36 |
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| divVerent | (which by itself is already worth it, for my use) | 18:39 |
| kerio | yes, cssu-stable is kinda supposed to be indistinguishable from maemo stock, unless you configure it | 18:40 |
| kerio | also, install the rotation lock applet | 18:40 |
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| Pali | this situation of linux userspace is even worse | 18:41 |
| Pali | lennart's systemd, | 18:41 |
| Pali | non working udev | 18:41 |
| kerio | indeed, upstart is much better! | 18:41 |
| Pali | and now also stupid ******* display server by canonical | 18:41 |
| * kerio flees | 18:41 | |
| Pali | very good, ubuntu - majority distribution - start using something incompatible with X Server... | 18:43 |
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| Pali | and all developers start using that shit | 18:43 |
| Pali | and then linux desktop goes to the hell | 18:43 |
| divVerent | kerio: I did install the rotation lock | 18:43 |
| Pali | thanks cannonical | 18:43 |
| Pali | thanks lennart | 18:43 |
| kerio | Pali: i don't see anyone else using unity, fwiw | 18:44 |
| divVerent | although not much supports rotation anyway | 18:44 |
| divVerent | (similarily bad situation as with iOS...) | 18:44 |
| Pali | kerio, unity can be replaced by another DE | 18:44 |
| kerio | i mean other distros | 18:44 |
| Pali | without breaking other apps | 18:44 |
| freemangordon | kerio: you will, once that "peace" of crap is out | 18:44 |
| divVerent | wayland is by canonical now? | 18:44 |
| divVerent | or do you mean ANOTHER new display server? | 18:44 |
| Pali | but replacing X Server will break *all* X apps | 18:45 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 18:45 |
| thedead1440 | divVerent: Mir | 18:45 |
| divVerent | if it's wayland, it will NOT break X apps | 18:45 |
| Pali | divVerent, no anther server | 18:45 |
| Pali | MIR | 18:45 |
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| kerio | canonical can announce whatever it wants | 18:46 |
| Pali | Red Hat and also Canonical trying to kill linux | 18:46 |
| divVerent | I mean, X11 IS crap... but now Wayland AND MIR... why can't they join forces instead | 18:46 |
| Pali | X11 is good | 18:47 |
| divVerent | that way, we will get TWO crappy new display servers, and will thus stick with old X11 | 18:47 |
| Pali | is working | 18:47 |
| divVerent | not REALLY... | 18:47 |
| divVerent | it works, yes | 18:47 |
| divVerent | but design IS bad | 18:47 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: X11 is NOT crap | 18:47 |
| Pali | and there are working apps | 18:47 |
| divVerent | I actually am surprised how fluent Maemo works :P | 18:47 |
| divVerent | given that Android on similar hardware fails | 18:47 |
| Pali | wayland - not working correctly, no apps | 18:47 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: thanks to dalvic ;) | 18:47 |
| Pali | and only research project | 18:47 |
| divVerent | wayland does the big mistake of making window managers very complex to impossible | 18:47 |
| divVerent | (but still better than OS X, which even does window decorations from a library loaded by programs... making it ENTIRELY impossible to change them) | 18:48 |
| kerio | divVerent: otherwise how will the next itunes mimick the future version of os x? | 18:48 |
| divVerent | freemangordon: main gripe with ANdroid is that even the pointless animations lag all the time | 18:48 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I think it is time to start coding for Windows :D:D:D | 18:49 |
| divVerent | and X11 is quite badly designed... to get anything done, people invent X11 extensions to go around X11's normal channels | 18:49 |
| divVerent | XShm being one of the first | 18:49 |
| divVerent | so it DOES make sense to rethink whether we still need the core X11 mechanisms at all | 18:49 |
| divVerent | however, this also could be done as an "evolutionary" step, i.e. taking X11 and just removing most useless core features (X11 bitmap fonts being one of the nasty ones) | 18:50 |
| freemangordon | Pali: as how the things are developing, in a couple of years that experience will be of use ;) | 18:50 |
| divVerent | and basically doing virtually everything with extensions, and only keeping core features as fallbacks (e.g. XShmPutImage needs an XPutImage fallback for network connections) | 18:50 |
| divVerent | therefore, I wonder why everyone wants to start from scratch, and not work on an "X12" | 18:50 |
| kerio | divVerent: because NIH | 18:51 |
| divVerent | especially the "all you ever need is OpenGL anyway" sounds right... but is not, once you need more than one window in your program :P | 18:51 |
| divVerent | yes... but thanks to Ubuntu, Wayland has no future, and thanks to Wayland, MIR has none :P | 18:52 |
| divVerent | Wayland actually tries SOME X11 compatibility, as in, you can run a Wayland display on X11, and X11 software on Wayland by use of either a protocol translator or a library | 18:52 |
| divVerent | (or is it a library only, and the protocol translator is Xnest?) | 18:53 |
| kerio | "One wonders whether it's really a good idea to name it after a space station that the Russians abandoned and allowed to burn up once they decided that going it alone on something as complex and expensive as a space station wasn't really practical." | 18:53 |
| freemangordon | divVerent: I guess they think QML will do the job for app compatibility | 18:53 |
| divVerent | in a way, X11's network transparency was actually a bad idea - in retrospect | 18:53 |
| divVerent | if it weren't for X11 forwarding, Oracle would NEVER have made graphical installers for database | 18:53 |
| freemangordon | which is bullshit (QML thingie) | 18:53 |
| divVerent | which means, you NEED to have X11 stuff installed on a database server JUST so that the installer can run | 18:54 |
| kerio | divVerent: hahahaha what | 18:54 |
| divVerent | yes, really | 18:54 |
| divVerent | you can use a response file | 18:54 |
| kerio | hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha | 18:54 |
| divVerent | but no interactive console install | 18:54 |
| divVerent | also, even if you do use a response file | 18:54 |
| divVerent | it still requires X11 libs and a working $DISPLAY | 18:54 |
| divVerent | despite only using it for testing whether it works | 18:54 |
| kerio | why would you want an installer | 18:54 |
| divVerent | because Oracle | 18:54 |
| divVerent | actually, the Oracle installer DOES some useful things | 18:54 |
| freemangordon | kerio: ever installed oracle? | 18:55 |
| divVerent | but a script to be run after installation would work too | 18:55 |
| kerio | freemangordon: nope | 18:55 |
| kerio | it's not in the repos | 18:55 |
| divVerent | hehe | 18:55 |
| divVerent | in theory all the Oracle installer does COULD also be done by a script installed by a package manager... "apt-get install oracle-database" would not yield a working DB yet | 18:55 |
| divVerent | and it IS too many questions to solve this by debconf questions :P | 18:55 |
| divVerent | even may involve formatting partitions for use by ASM | 18:55 |
| kerio | divVerent: apt-get install nginx doesn't yield a working web server | 18:55 |
| divVerent | kerio: that is nginx's fault ;) | 18:56 |
| divVerent | for Apache this works | 18:56 |
| divVerent | it works so well even, it tells you that "It works"! | 18:56 |
| kerio | divVerent: apt-get install apache doesn't create my website | 18:56 |
| divVerent | no, just a web server | 18:56 |
| kerio | and really, would you ever use apache's default config? :) | 18:56 |
| divVerent | which is what you asked for :P | 18:56 |
| kerio | nginx gives you a default page i thin | 18:56 |
| kerio | k | 18:56 |
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| divVerent | oh, then it does work | 18:56 |
| divVerent | and no fault at nginx :P | 18:56 |
| divVerent | the package manager's job is done once port 80 is listening and shows SOMETHING :P | 18:57 |
| merlin1991 | hm oracle | 18:57 |
| divVerent | (or actually, I am split whether the package manager should actually ENABLE services...) | 18:57 |
| * merlin1991 still wants to know why running exp for utf8 is so weirdly obscure | 18:57 | |
| merlin1991 | or why the help argument isn't --help /? -? -h but HELP=Y | 18:58 |
| divVerent | ah, THIS exp ;) | 18:58 |
| divVerent | yes... HELP=Y is insane | 18:58 |
| divVerent | also, did one really HAVE to invent tnsnames.ora? | 18:58 |
| divVerent | listener.ora I can understand | 18:59 |
| merlin1991 | for utf8 export you need to set the NLS_LANG env properly, no commandline option for exp afaik | 18:59 |
| divVerent | but most of what tnsnames.ora does can be handles better e.g. via SRV records | 18:59 |
| divVerent | still, that's probably one of the smallest issues with Oracle :P | 18:59 |
| divVerent | I mean, it doesn't even really support NULL | 18:59 |
| merlin1991 | every time I touch oracle it drives me partly insane | 19:00 |
| divVerent | (or it doesn't support the empty string, whichever way you prefer seeing it) | 19:00 |
| divVerent | in Oracle, empty string '' and NULL are the same thing... annoying | 19:00 |
| divVerent | you don't WANT to know all sorts of workarounds for this we have here at work | 19:00 |
| kerio | postgres ftw | 19:00 |
| divVerent | e.g. when an empty field was confirmed by the user and thus should stay empty, putting a single space into the database | 19:00 |
| divVerent | or stuff similar to that | 19:00 |
| kerio | divVerent: how do i distinguish between empty field and single space in the field? | 19:01 |
| merlin1991 | also WHY doesn't it suport LIMIT / TOP / something else euqally useable in its sql dialect | 19:01 |
| divVerent | SQL language wise, I highly prefer MySQL... it seems the most sane there. But it loses in other areas vs Postgres... | 19:01 |
| divVerent | can't even do real partitions... | 19:01 |
| divVerent | DROP TABLE dual | 19:01 |
| divVerent | now your oracle is fixed ;) | 19:01 |
| divVerent | or, rather... REALLY broken | 19:01 |
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| divVerent | what also annoys me with MySQL is that so many features depend on database type it's not funny any more... situations like | 19:02 |
| merlin1991 | I side with kerio | 19:02 |
| merlin1991 | postgres ftw :D | 19:02 |
| divVerent | "Feature A only works in InnoDB, Feature B only is indexed properly in MyISAM and is slow in InnoDB" | 19:03 |
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| merlin1991 | divVerent: also mysql is oracle now ;) | 19:03 |
| divVerent | yes... MySQL is best SQL-language feature wise, but... | 19:03 |
| divVerent | Postgres is the one I'd rather entrust my data to | 19:03 |
| divVerent | and also behaves most consistent | 19:03 |
| merlin1991 | though the default config on debianfor postgres is funky | 19:03 |
| divVerent | merlin1991: one can always use MariaDB instead, which means virtually zero development, but at least keeping a working state :P | 19:03 |
| divVerent | also, why is it so hard for ALL these DBs to authenticate by unix users? | 19:04 |
| merlin1991 | prints whole sql statements to log on every error/warning/whatever | 19:04 |
| divVerent | why do we NEED database passwords, when we access it only locally anyway | 19:04 |
| kerio | divVerent: eeeeew | 19:04 |
| merlin1991 | divVerent: postgres does it ;) | 19:04 |
| divVerent | unix sockets exist. Server can query user ID of client. | 19:04 |
| kerio | ah yes | 19:04 |
| divVerent | and yes, I quite like CGI/suexec for hosting different sites... each site/software on a separate user ID is quite a good thing | 19:04 |
| divVerent | so if one site is hacked, it doesn't automatically get access to data of all the others | 19:05 |
| divVerent | like PHP, exploit web server with PHP, now recursively search for config.inc files... voila, LOTS of database accounts... | 19:05 |
| kerio | >i quite like cgi | 19:05 |
| kerio | what the hell | 19:05 |
| divVerent | CGI's main issue is TEH SLOW | 19:05 |
| divVerent | due to recreating the process all the time | 19:06 |
| divVerent | FastCGI solves that, and still can be su'd :P | 19:06 |
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| kerio | nginx reverse proxying to a twisted.web.server | 19:06 |
| divVerent | using twisted in production? THAT is... funny | 19:06 |
| divVerent | hm... apparently it IS production grade now, so why not | 19:07 |
| merlin1991 | hm ngnic proxy for gunicorn | 19:07 |
| merlin1991 | way more fun ;) | 19:07 |
| kerio | ooh, plenty of CVEs for xen | 19:07 |
| divVerent | oh no | 19:08 |
| divVerent | that means SPAM | 19:08 |
| divVerent | once I get the Red Hat messages... | 19:08 |
| divVerent | we use RHEL at work and I have a RH account... so let's see when I will get the spam :P | 19:08 |
| kerio | divVerent: here's the debian alert: https://lwn.net/Articles/541051/ | 19:08 |
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| divVerent | well, we don't use RHEL | 19:09 |
| kerio | centos? | 19:09 |
| divVerent | I mean | 19:09 |
| divVerent | don't use Xen | 19:09 |
| divVerent | we use RHEL | 19:09 |
| divVerent | well, we ALMOST don't use Xen | 19:09 |
| divVerent | a certain supplier accidentally installed Xen on the production servers they made | 19:09 |
| divVerent | as in, used the Xen kernel | 19:10 |
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| merlin1991 | let me guess the server got sanctioned "done" and kernel shall not be changed anymore | 19:10 |
| divVerent | it is in production | 19:10 |
| divVerent | and they compiled a custom kernel module for the kernel | 19:10 |
| divVerent | so it's kinda hard to fix it NOW :( | 19:10 |
| divVerent | there's currently an email fight to get them to supply kernel module sources or a module compiled for the standard kernel | 19:11 |
| merlin1991 | heh, image, rebuild locally, test, scp, reboot to complete system failure | 19:11 |
| merlin1991 | dafuq? kernel module wihout sources? | 19:12 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: yep, why? | 19:12 |
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| merlin1991 | don't you need to move your funky closed code somewehre else and make a gpl "proxy" to stay compliant with the kernel gpl? | 19:13 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: AFAIK you can just taint the kernel | 19:44 |
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| divVerent | as for module without source: in a work contract that is legall | 19:46 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loadable_kernel_module, "License issues" | 19:47 |
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| XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: hey, are you there ? | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, sorry. Busy. So if it's more than a short answer to a short question, better try later to pick me up | 21:56 |
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| XATRIX | Yep, ok | 21:57 |
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| freemangordon | jacekowski: ping | 22:58 |
| jacekowski | freemangordon: pong | 23:08 |
| freemangordon | jacekowski: I wanted to ask what should I add to sources.list in order to use your repo, but already figured it out. :) | 23:11 |
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| sardini | hello | 23:59 |
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