IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2013-01-22

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Sc0rpiusmight be00:03
freemangordonSc0rpius, kerio: it is perfectly possible that KCSSU(i.e. KP) impacts the speed somehow. Or errata workarounds. or ... NFC what :D00:03
freemangordonthough my end-user experiance so far tells me that ... thombified n900 launches phone-ui, contacts and conversations faster than S3 (I know I am saying that for n-th time, but still :) )00:05
keriofreemangordon: that just tells us that the s3 is an awful device00:05
keriobut we already knew that00:06
freemangordonbut it is supposed to be one of the fastest devices around 9excluding iCrap)00:06
keriobecause Operating system Android00:06
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freemangordonbut it still has 2x1.2 Cortex A9. Plus some third core00:06
kerioi thought it was a quadcore00:07
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kerioanyway, i see what you mean00:09
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UberNeokerio: freemangordon  . could you please give some inputs on the error which I am getting for QT/QML based applications00:11
freemangordonUberNeo: what is your hildon-desktop version? (dpkg -l | grep hildon-desktop)00:12
freemangordonkerio: well, afaik S3 is tegra300:13
UberNeohildon-desktop                                      1:2.2.140-1+0m500:13
freemangordoncould be wrong and I am too lazy now to check :)00:14
UberNeohildon-desktop-python-loader                        0.1.0-1maemo300:14
keriofreemangordon: wikipedia says samsung exynos 4 quad for eu, snapdragon s4 for NA00:14
xesfreemangordon: have you tried again to debug the qt fennec build for fremantle?00:14
freemangordonkerio: afaik exynos is TBD :), lemme check00:14
kerioso that's a quad core cortex-a900:14
freemangordonshit, you are right :O00:16
freemangordonfor sure it has 2 GB00:16
kerioit's a fucking beast00:16
freemangordonno, it is not.00:16
kerioit's quite powerful00:17
freemangordonscrolling stutters every now and then, UI is awful, etc00:17
khmbad software doesn't mean the hardware is weak00:17
khmit's just a natural extension of locking yourself inside the java blimp00:17
freemangordonbad software means the device is weak00:17
keriofreemangordon: port fremantle to the s3 plskthx00:17
UberNeofreemangordon: how its realted to the hildon-desktop version?00:17
freemangordonno HW kbd and no FMTX00:17
keriooh god00:18
keriohow can they live without the fmtx00:18
wirrthe horror, the horror00:18
khmwell how else do you expect to present a staticky low-fidelity representation of your music in a car?00:18
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freemangordonUberNeo: you are 10 versions behind master, install the one from cssu-devel (along with Qt) and recheck. If it still continues (the error you have) please file a bug with steps to reprodice00:19
* khm writes pulseaudio layer to crap up the sound00:19
khmfmtx emulator00:19
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* freemangordon hands khm a beer and waits for the emulator to be ready00:19
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* WizardNumberNext is drinking beer waiting till fmtx emulator would make my radio play00:21
keriokhm: instead, work on a kernel-level speaker protection00:21
WizardNumberNextfremangordon: there are two SGS3 on market - one have two cores and another have four00:22
WizardNumberNextI want one with two cores, but without android00:23
freemangordonWizardNumberNext: well, I didn't check which one was that. But in either cases it is a shame00:23
WizardNumberNextworking debian would perfectly fine00:23
WizardNumberNextandroid kills it capabilities00:24
WizardNumberNextit is like I would put windows on my "vista incapable" PC00:24
WizardNumberNextI still want that sticker on my desktop00:24
wirrbut, freemangordon, pretty please, port maemo to the Pantech Star Q00:25
WizardNumberNexteven though it is perfectly vista capable (AMD Phenom II X6 1090T + 8GiB DDR2-6400 RAM, going without a glitch to 7520 (940MHz))00:26
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khmwhy did you type any of those things in00:26
WizardNumberNextPantech Star Q? hat is it?00:27
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WizardNumberNextbecause I like my desktop, which is designed for GNU/Linux00:27
UberNeofreemangordon: WizardNumberNext  any mirror for cssu-devel00:28
keriooh god00:28
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: I have no idea. Don't want to mess anything for you00:28
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: do you have somewhere this post with all mirros?00:30
UberNeoWizardNumberNext: .. seems like all the QT/QML based applications are failing to start00:31
UberNeoWizardNumberNext:  getting below error00:31
UberNeoTwimGo[1594]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GObject - g_object_get: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed Jan 21 21:34:03 Nokia-N900 TwimGo[1594]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed00:31
WizardNumberNextI can check for branch, but cannot guarantee it would work00:31
WizardNumberNexti mean with mirrors00:31
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WizardNumberNextiDont to... ... sometimes ;)00:32
WizardNumberNextnice username btw00:32
iDontthanks :)00:33
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UberNeoWizardNumberNext: any pointers . for the QT/QML apps errors .00:35
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WizardNumberNextUberNeo: honestly no clue. What I think it might some glitch in library linking or somethink similar, but it is only what I think and I might be very wrong.00:37
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UberNeoWizardNumberNext:  .. all the apps like . CuteTube, AesyPig , Twimgo . al are failing . :(00:38
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: I never have programmed in QT/QML so I am not wise enough to answer that question00:39
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WizardNumberNextit might be something in library itself, but I think you should do what freemangordon told you to do00:40
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WizardNumberNextI have no better solution00:41
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UberNeobut dnt know .. whats the mirror cssu-devel . its repository00:42
WizardNumberNextme neither00:43
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UberNeofreemangordon: do u have any pointers for repository mirror cssu-devel00:43
MrPinguSc0rpius: Why does yappari starts syncing contacts by itself. Wasn't only supossed to do that at start or when press the button?00:46
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WizardNumberNextUberNeo: my cutetube seams to work00:56
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MrPinguWizardNumberNext: Positive!00:56
WizardNumberNextok guys, how can check what libraries are used by cutetube?00:57
WizardNumberNextI am too lazy work it out by myself00:57
WizardNumberNextwould lsof be sufficient?00:57
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WizardNumberNextmerlin1991: rings bell, I would check it out00:59
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WizardNumberNextmerlin1991: hit~01:00
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: do you run clean N900 or with some cssu?01:01
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UberNeowas . clean .now i have gt this cssu-devel repo01:02
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UberNeoWizardNumberNext:  fremantle free non-free01:03
UberNeofor cssu-devel01:03
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WizardNumberNextthen I cannot help you - I was looking for libraries and possibility of swapping them, but this would be quite a risk - it might render N900 unusable till you put originals back01:05
WizardNumberNextnow it is outdated crazy idea01:06
WizardNumberNextberofe it was crazy idea01:06
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UberNeoWizardNumberNext: Seems like all the QT/QML apps have started working01:10
UberNeoafter CSSU-DEVEL update01:10
WizardNumberNextso I have been right - it was up to some library01:10
UberNeoyeah ..01:10
UberNeothanks .. its working now01:11
UberNeoWizardNumberNext: .. do u remember the GPS app . which just shows the basic GPS info01:12
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WizardNumberNextI have two of them01:12
UberNeowhic one01:13
WizardNumberNextgps recorder and gpsdata01:13
WizardNumberNextno idea01:14
WizardNumberNextmight be extras/extras-devel01:14
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M4rtinKUberNeo: the newest modRana QML release has a dedicated GPS info screen02:06
M4rtinKit shows all it can get from the GPS in real time02:06
khmdoes anyone know the status of qt support on maemo 402:06
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freemangordonkhm: nonexistent?02:15
khmmodrana used to work on the n810.  qml is the death knell02:15
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UberNeoM4rtinK:  does works as Network positioning02:21
UberNeoanybody .. what address do u guys use  in Network Positioning tag02:24
M4rtinKkhm: I'm still maintaining the GTK GUI :)02:24
M4rtinKUberNeo: I think I'm using the Google supl server ( ?)02:25
M4rtinKkhm: BTW, as I don't have a N<900 myself, I can't really test for it02:25
M4rtinKbut it should work fine out of the box or with minor tweaks02:26
M4rtinK& any feedback is welcome :)02:26
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UberNeoyeah .. gets the fix in seconds . but it shows wrong direction02:27
UberNeoapprox . 1 Km off02:27
freemangordonUberNeo: you know n900 has no compass, ain't?02:27
M4rtinKyou mean direction of travel or positional error ?02:28
UberNeopositional error02:28
M4rtinKBTW, I think supl shouldn't affect GPS accuracy02:28
M4rtinKit only helps with the cold start02:29
M4rtinKI was once in Vienna without roaming with the N90002:29
M4rtinKit took a while to get lock02:29
UberNeoi believe it takes position from the nearest Mobile Towers and then apply Tringulation law . untill unless .. it searches for the Satellites . which is very difficult to get indoors02:29
M4rtinKbut the accuracy was the same as usual afterwards02:29
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M4rtinKI think it also sends the data you are getting from the satellites to somewhere to help determine where you are02:30
M4rtinKso it is a potentially a user-privacy problem :)02:31
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ricotomocan someone tell me what the path is to the file claws-mail-3.9.0 located in the nokia n900/ directory?02:45
ricotomoalso if anyone has actually got gpg working and would like to walk me through it that would be much appreciated02:48
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DocScrutinizer05yes, supl uses data of celltowers (actually GSM has its own hidden "supl")04:59
DocScrutinizer05but it does no triangulation04:59
infobotfrom memory, rrlp is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or
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DocScrutinizer05RRLP is the reason why the GPS chip is connected to the modem rather than the application CPU05:01
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Sc0rpiusare the new repos coming along?05:16
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DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: alas not05:57
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RST38hNokia find a new "developers ecosystem":
thedead1440RST38h: that idea is actually from Texrat; one of the few remaining people in Nokia who understand "community"... I'm waiting to see how long before it gets taken down :D08:48
DocScrutinizer05texrat "in nokia"???08:50
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: don't you know? Its been at least 3-4 months since he was re-hired but with the focus being on Lumia this time :D08:50
RST38hThey finally had mercy on him and took the poor buffon back onboard? =)08:51
DocScrutinizer05dang, Nokia hires and fires like others decide on taking their umbrella with them when leaving home08:51
RST38hDoc: This news item, by the way, confirms my assessment of a Lumia device08:53
DocScrutinizer05well, I have to claim that the idea of publishing full 3D files for whatever way of manufacturing your own case been originally established first time by Openmoko08:53
RST38hDoc: It is a 1:1 scale model of a real smartphone, with no moving parts =)08:53
RST38hCan't do anything about the insides, anything at all. But now you can print your own case for it =)08:53
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thedead1440btw the original link:
thedead1440that's nice DocScrutinizer05 ;)08:57
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DocScrutinizer05I wonder if anybody  involved and registered with such "social media" will post a comment with a link to the original idea on that "news" about lumia08:58
DocScrutinizer05or rather, please don't, we need to clean out vandalism on the wiki otherwise08:59
RST38hDoc: No, and not even because Nokia would not allow that (it would)08:59
thedead1440i'm posting it08:59
RST38hDoc: But simply because nobody is interested08:59
RST38hAnybody can tell what this is about:
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thedead1440RST38h: not very sure but it seems like those efforts by Nokia to get more apps into WP Marketplace... Something similar but for end-users requesting for apps:
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RST38hThe intro seems to indicate that it is some kind of a creepy social network for Microsoftgeeks09:06
RST38hDefinitely does not say anything about apps09:06
thedead1440not social network but more like there are apps that are missing so you take on a challenge to code that app and get points etc which get you devices or rewards09:06
thedead1440see their twitter account to see developers asking for access or them asking developers for clarifications on apps:
thedead1440this would explain why there are some replicas of popular games on Marketplace for free09:07
RST38hAnd who is the target audience? Indians?09:08
thedead1440Anyone and Everyone for dvlup09:08
thedead1440There is a WP-developer company called AE that publishes many apps on WP-marketplace that are replicas like Bejeweled etc... Maybe they are part of dvlup hence they earn from dvlup... (notice the pun their name uses)09:09
thedead1440oh also FYI Texrat is one of the WP-Ambassadors for dvlup too ;)09:10
RST38hyeah, that is how I found dvlup09:10
thedead1440oh dvlup is only for residents of the USA09:10
RST38hso, this rat race is US-specific?09:11
thedead1440yup see their T&C:
RST38hdo they target WP7 or WP8? because if it is WP7, then the whole picture looks even more hopeless09:11
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thedead1440I would say WP8 considering their twitter account which shows developers wishing they had a WP8 Lumia instead of the WP7 Lumia they had09:12
thedead1440hence their loan programs for upgrading your WP7 to a WP8 device if you are part of dvlup09:12
thedead1440loan and device upgrade*09:12
RST38hWell, good luck to them. If WP8 sells, I will consider porting to it.09:14
RST38hRight now though, the top of my todo list is Kindle :)09:14
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Sicelo€sb lev-all10:36
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romaxafreemangordon: ping11:16
romaxafreemangordon: please use git pull; git rebase when you push changes to main repo.... merge commits does not looks very good.11:17
freemangordonromaxa: I did a mistake for that particular commit, my appologies11:18
freemangordonromaxa: the next is ok (aiui). i use git pull --rebase before pushing11:19
freemangordon(except for that case)11:20
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romaxafreemangordon: hokkey11:38
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infobotfrom memory, coldflash is and next ~200 posts, or
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Estel_trying to bring alive device with torn apart secondary board (flex torn), and where usb port got broken during reflash12:06
Estel_not my achievement :P someone asked me to try recovering data from it's mydocs...12:06
Estel_ah, I forget about 2 under-battery pads being torn too12:06
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kerio...what the hell did you do to that poor n900?12:07
freemangordonkerio: see why only 40k devices left?12:07
Estel_so cable for creating alternate connection got created by mixing two pads from under battery, one (alive) pad for microusb, and one later component, where data+ is connected...12:07
Estel_as data+ was torn apart on *both* usb pads and under battery pads12:08
Estel_kerio,  as said, it wasn't me :P12:08
Estel_someone send it to me as dead motherboard for free, in exchange for attempt on recovering data (no matter if it works out or not)12:09
Estel_well, *if* by some miracle, it's gonna work, after being dead motherboard for CNC operations, I'll get case for it and make it first computer for my 4 years old son12:09
Estel_no idea if device without secondary board boots, maybe bootng process need to be changed for it12:10
Estel_well, holding thumbs and connecting it to usb port, hope no smoke appearing ;)12:10
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ShadowJKSigh. Since my cellular isp ran out of public IPs, and started giving the public IPs out on a first come first serve basis, and putting the rest on NAT, things have gone downhill13:18
ShadowJKyesterday I had a mtu of 1436, had to determine that experimentally13:18
ShadowJKfragmented packets were dropped, icmp replies were dropped13:19
jaskapmtu discovery broken?13:19
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ShadowJKpmtu, traceroute (on udp, icmp and tcp), etc13:19
kerioShadowJK: ewww :s13:20
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ShadowJKBasically I set my mss to 512 and logged in to my server and then sent udp packets with increasing packet size until they no longer arrived at tcpdump on server13:20
ShadowJKcut off was at 143613:20
jaskaand didnt get "fragmentation needed" icmp?13:21
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jaskabroken filtering <.<13:23
merlin1991ShadowJK: that kidna reminds me of the time when the router here got a fw upgrade which made it choke on mtu higher than 1400 :D13:23
ShadowJKAlso when I fragmented locally, no packets arrived, not the first and not the subsequent fragments13:23
jaskaprobably something like defragment, hit mtu ceiling, drop13:24
jaskaor reassemble.. not defragment13:24
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mer_gehey, for how long will everything be offline?13:40
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Estel_sorry to ask something that was probably asked 1000 on this channel, but I'm rather rarely here:13:59
Estel_where I can find data of most recommended (up to date, kinda "unoficcial-official" mirror for repos?14:00
Estel_I've planned to wait for repos being up again, but realized, that I need backupmenu on one of devices...14:00
Estel_Lesson to keep such essential things backup'ed locally, methink14:00
Estel_thanks in advance for answer14:01
thedead1440Estel_: won't give hash sum mismatch while is more recent but may give you hash sum errors14:02
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merlin1991thedead1440: it definitely gives you hash sum mismatch errors14:06
infobotwell, mirror is
thedead1440merlin1991: its kinda weird; skeiron has no issues but see this:
* merlin1991 is not sure what he sees there14:09
thedead1440that user has an issue with skeiron because of missing GPG key and problems with the .bz file which I can't seem to get14:09
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thedead1440it means his original GPG key has been removed maybe14:10
merlin1991hm foobar bzip2 in his $PATH?14:10
kerioEstel_: extras-devel.merlin1991.at14:10
keriowith only the latest version of each package14:11
kerioupdated daily14:11
keriosupports pdiffs14:11
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DocScrutinizer05[general notice] we're approaching a zone of turCDSsxydewxEWFDCX ZONE of turbulence and * is geajgDGGlkjhfhjf ng slow for undefined time14:11
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: i hate this pilot :p14:11
DocScrutinizer05actually everything except tmo is pretty much down14:12
jaskathey should add as a cname14:12
DocScrutinizer05again unknown bottleneck in uplink from firewall, which tmo is not linked to ;-)14:12
DocScrutinizer05it's absurd, the slower everything else gets, the faster tmo seems to be ;-P14:15
DocScrutinizer05wmo just loaded again for me14:16
DocScrutinizer05anyway, our Hero over at Nemein is looking into it14:17
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-22 13:00:20] <mashiara> the bottleneck is somewhere else, all the server loads are minimal.14:18
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-22 13:01:21] <mashiara> I'll ask the ISP for latest uplink graps (and also if the error counters which they reset a few days ago)14:18
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DocScrutinizer05[general notice] <gentle voice> we're sorry for the turbulence, we now left the area and a smooth and gentle flight is ahead of us. Actually we will arrive twice as fast than we expected14:33
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DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: (we activated an afterburner on the FW)14:35
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: now i like this pilot :p14:35
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DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-22 13:22:04] <mashiara> I'll take the FW down for a moment and add a second CPU just in case (the system shows idle load but...)14:35
merlin1991srly I thought we are running in a professional hoting environment14:36
merlin1991wtf is going on?14:36
DocScrutinizer05you know, sometimes IT is voodoo14:37
DocScrutinizer05particularly on a xen-grid I guess14:37
kerioi hope the firewall isn't in the xen-grid too14:38
keriootherwise, wtf14:38
DocScrutinizer05err, it is14:38
keriothat makes no sense14:38
keriowhy do i need a wm to act as a firewall14:38
DocScrutinizer05wtf wm14:38
kerioyou obviously don't need a window manager to act as a firewall14:39
DocScrutinizer05this is a firewall/NAT/trafficshaper14:39
kerioalthough it's probably going to happen, if you let lennart think about it some more14:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: yeah but in my book, something like that only makes sense if it's a separate piece of hardware14:39
keriothat sits between the uplink and the servers14:40
DocScrutinizer05define "piece of hw"14:40
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* DocScrutinizer05 thinks kerio has a cloudy idea of a xen-grid14:40
DocScrutinizer05we're talking of at least one reck full of servers here14:41
DocScrutinizer05one of then (nobody knows which) runs a VM that plays FW14:41
keriothat's precisely my point, why do we need a VM to play the role of a firewall?14:42
DocScrutinizer05for NAT and trafficshaping mainly14:42
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DocScrutinizer05at least I guess that's the intended purpose14:43
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-22 13:27:40] <jyrjyr> mashiara, which firewall system / software are you using?14:44
DocScrutinizer05[2013-01-22 13:28:01] <mashiara> Endian (community edition) it seems14:44
keriowhere did this happen?14:49
Estel_thanks  for all answers14:51
Estel_erm, bzip error was traced down, or it's really bb-power issue?14:52
Estel_If the later, DocScrutinizer05, could you forward me to your report (bug, post on tmo, whatever)about this? or someone's else?14:52
Estel_If it's true, I would pester iDont about it14:52
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DocScrutinizer05Estel_: iirc the problem been about some update of CSSU kicked out busybox-power (not intentionally but by mere dependencies) and users had to re-install it14:55
kerioEstel_: it's fixed now, busybox-power uses dpkg-diverts now14:55
DocScrutinizer05however it might be mere coincidence that the error msg looks the same, root cause might be sth completely unrelated14:57
DocScrutinizer05first check if there's a bzip2 (or whatever) binary available on your system, I'd suggest14:58
RST38hFirefox Phone:
RST38hOnly has 512MB RAM. *Suspicious.*14:59
* DocScrutinizer05 pukes14:59
RST38h512MB is like a light breakfast for Fennec14:59
* DocScrutinizer05 waits for first windows car14:59
RST38hDoc: That has happened already14:59
RST38hDoc: BMW had WinCE based car computer. It sucked.15:00
DocScrutinizer05ok, make that M$-cardiac-pacemaker then15:00
RST38hDoc: And before you asked, Windows-based naval ship also happened and crashed on bootup.15:00
Luke-Jrdo BL-5J batterys get slightly curved normally, or when they're bad?15:01
jonwilRST38h: Not sure if the BMW computer sucked because it was Windows or because it was a BMW :P15:01
DocScrutinizer05I know they built naval ship with WinNT navigation, which epically failed on tests15:01
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: when bad15:01
DocScrutinizer05get rid of, immediately15:01
RST38hjonwil: It was part windows and part their physical UI15:02
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: is it a problem to use it as padding (not electronically)?15:02
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: pregnant battery syndrome15:02
RST38hOr, better, give it to you best enemy15:02
RST38hSo that when it ruptures, it is HIS balls on the line15:02
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: eg, so my other battery doesn't fall out of the Mugen case15:02
* jonwil wouldn't be caught dead driving a German car :P15:03
DocScrutinizer05nah, it's critical state15:03
Luke-Jris normal trash okay then? :p15:03
DocScrutinizer05dispose off at some LiIon collection point15:03
DocScrutinizer05put scotch tape over contacts15:04
Luke-Jrwill that make it safe?15:04
DocScrutinizer05yes, as soon as you're 50m away from it15:04
RST38hDoc <== exagerrating15:05
RST38h5m is fine, it is a small battery15:05
* Luke-Jr ponders what else to use as padding now15:05
RST38hthey *usually* burn, not fly apart15:05
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: in that collection point might sit another 300 cells waiting for a reason to act up15:05
RST38hah that15:05
DocScrutinizer05787 anybody?15:06
RST38hOh yesss15:06
RST38hDoc: Also:
DocScrutinizer05I heard a cargo of LiIon took out a freight liner, since then no more shipping of LiIon per airfreight15:07
RST38hWho needs nukes?15:09
merlin1991just grab all the batteries in a city and build a megabomb :P15:09
DocScrutinizer05when we got cargo airliners and LiIon15:09
Luke-Jrso I should put it down the end of my driveway until I go out?15:10
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DocScrutinizer05Boing PFFFFF15:10
RST38hBTW, aluminium would also apply, if not for the wonderful properties of Al2O315:10
RST38hLuke: Put it on the road and watch some lorry snuff it.15:10
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DocScrutinizer05meh, the HF will not etch the rubber of the tires15:11
RST38hWhere did you get F from?15:11
Luke-Jrwhat if I make a hole in it?15:11
Luke-Jrwill that calm it down?15:12
DocScrutinizer05but i heard it's the major threat of LiIon going bonkers15:12
DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: well, basically yes15:12
DocScrutinizer05I don't recommend it though15:12
RST38hWiki does say LiIons use fluorides15:12
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Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: if it works, why not?15:14
RST38hSince 2007 or so15:14
DocScrutinizer05because of HF being toxic15:14
DocScrutinizer05really toxic15:15
RST38hHF is definitely toxic, but I can't see how it can generate a lot of HF15:15
Estel_kerio, so if busybox-power uses dpkg-diverts, why DocScrutinizer05 insisted, that bug wasn't solved?15:22
Estel_it can't be due to he being not objective when it comes to bb-p ;)15:23
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DocScrutinizer05I didn't insist in anything, please don't start that scheme again15:25
DocScrutinizer05your implicit insults not appreciated either15:25
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DocScrutinizer05if anybody insisted in anything then that's been you who insisted in forcing bb-p into cssu15:28
DocScrutinizer05against everybody incl maintainer of bb-p agreed on it not being an exactly good idea to do so15:29
chem|stRST38h: heat...15:30
Luke-Jrdoes it hurt anything to let the camera sensor think the lens is always open?15:30
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Luke-Jrlike, will it use battery powering the camera?15:30
DocScrutinizer05err good question15:31
chem|stRST38h: your question how a LiPo generates HF15:31
DocScrutinizer05depends, wehn it actually thinks it needs to fucus and everything then it will eat shitloads of energy15:31
DocScrutinizer05dang, my speeling sucks again15:32
* DocScrutinizer05 blushes and heads out15:32
Luke-Jrah, makes sense if it doesn't power/etc until something accesses it15:32
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Luke-Jraha doh15:35
Luke-Jrvibrate-on-sleep-with-lens-open is no longer useful15:35
* Luke-Jr wonders what package that was15:35
DocScrutinizer05surprise surprise15:35
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Luke-Jrhmm, Walmart has no BL-5J? :/15:37
DocScrutinizer05surprise surprise15:37
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* DocScrutinizer05 should create a macro for that15:38
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Luke-Jrdo you need to get it from Nokia direct to be sure it's real, or will reputable retailers like NewEgg or Amazon have legit batteries for sure?15:38
DocScrutinizer05amazon i'm not sure. The usual local store though should be OK15:38
Luke-Jrusual local store = Walmart = not have O.o15:39
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DocScrutinizer05I'd prefer those which don't even claim to be "origginoll nokla"15:39
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Luke-JrNewegg has them for $6.50 … "Sold by OrionGadgets" <.<15:40
DocScrutinizer05not paying for the fake hologram make a friggin lot of difference15:40
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DocScrutinizer05Luke-Jr: s/wallmart/Nokia sho/15:41
DocScrutinizer05shop* even15:41
kerioLuke-Jr: vi____ claims that aliexpress has a 1600mAh bl-5j15:41
Luke-JrDocScrutinizer05: don't think I've ever seen one of those in my life15:41
DocScrutinizer05I tend to buy mine in a 2nd-hand phoneshop next door. If they dare to sell shit to me, they are happy to get me a replacement or refund me15:43
DocScrutinizer05those are generally used genuine Nokia, and if I get a worn out one, they can get it back15:44
DocScrutinizer05and they know I won't leave the shop until my money is in my pocket again15:45
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DocScrutinizer05I'm more than willing to pay 2 bucks more than they call for the most suspicious "original Nokla" in the interwebs15:46
Luke-Jrwtf does google give me "Dayspring Church" when I search for nokia?15:46
DocScrutinizer05for this convenience15:46
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Luke-Jrany reason to think a Verizon store might have them?15:47
DocScrutinizer05no verizon here15:48
keriosrsly though, 1600mAh is a lot15:48
DocScrutinizer05I gather it's a carrier?15:48
DocScrutinizer05if they are, they might have Nokia phones and orginal spares15:48
RST38hLuke: Because that is where they told Elop his story about guy jumping from the burning platform into raging sea and staying alive?15:49
DocScrutinizer05for ~40bucks per bl-5j15:49
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DocScrutinizer05[general notice] erRrhmcrxchrrxxthis is your friendly pilot. We gonna try a few loopings and other tricks, might have unforeseeable impact on your traveling experience on * But if all works out as we hope, we might offer you repo.m.o in a while, served at your seat.16:11
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thedead1440brilliant DocScrutinizer05; looking forward to a safe-landing :D16:13
DocScrutinizer05if not, we hope to recover after not too long16:13
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jonwilwhy must it be so hard to find a decent windows backup program that doesn't cost $$$ :(16:15
DocScrutinizer05because windows is about $$$16:15
chem|stjonwil: there was on I just cannot remember the name...16:15
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chem|stjonwil: was it cobian maybe?!16:17
jonwilwill see if that one looks good16:19
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RST38hjonwil: that is mainly because most people who really need backups do them by hand or have custom scripts16:22
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DocScrutinizer05sorry our looping exercises got postponed for a short while16:22
RST38hjonwil: and the rest are worth exploiting16:22
jonwilwell at this point all I need is a simple way to say "burn this folder to as many DVDs as it takes until everything has been burnt"16:22
RST38hThis is done with a CD burning software16:23
RST38hWhich should have come with your computer16:23
jonwilI dont have any CD burning software16:23
RST38hNero will do the job16:24
jonwilalthough there is aparently a free version of Nero out there16:24
jonwilso lets use that16:24
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jonwiloh wait it seems like the free version of Nero doesn't like Windows 7...16:31
chem|stjonwil: you are in the wrong channel... and windows7 has its own cd burning built in!16:31
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chem|stjonwil: and cd/dvds are bad for backup16:33
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mer_gesorry, when will be online again?16:33
chem|stmer_ge: it is online16:33
chem|stmer_ge: only repos are missing16:33
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mer_gedo you know when they'll be up again?16:34
chem|stthere will be some testing taking place today16:35
chem|stif that goes well enough... do the math16:35
mer_genice, thanks16:35
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infoboti heard repo-down is
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keriooptical media is hipster as fuck16:55
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DocScrutinizer05<chem|st> there will be some testing taking place today   <DocScrutinizer05> mashiara: could you announce here before starting up stage.m.o please?     <mashiara> I will when I get to it, this will take a long while still17:01
keriowhere does that happen?17:01
keriowhy do you have secret channels :(17:01
DocScrutinizer05where you won't pester him17:02
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DocScrutinizer05I tried to run all this in #maemo-meeting but noise level been way too high17:03
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DocScrutinizer05sorry but that's life, with the existing diference between those who IRC for fun and those we *must* use IRC (or even just think "well, with *that* I don't have to")17:05
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DocScrutinizer05s/we /who /17:05
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: sorry but that's life, with the existing diference between those who IRC for fun and those who *must* use IRC (or even just think "well, with *that* I don't have to")17:05
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vi____pipes 'n sockets > dbus17:06
keriovi____: tru dat17:06
keriowith regards to what?17:06
DocScrutinizer05don't you think all http://* is lighning fast right now?17:14
DocScrutinizer05(except when it takes eternities for initial connect sometimes)17:15
* kerio thinks about saying something regarding repository., but decides against17:15
kerioyep, really quick17:16
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mirror is
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freemangordonromaxa: if I want to replace microb-engine with embedlite, what part should I write? should i take dummy-eal and implement embedlite-eal? or it is something else?19:50
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romaxafreemangordon: that would not work... microb - it is  UI with EAL in on process  and eal-iml (like microb-eal + engine) in another process20:40
romaxafreemangordon: embedlite deliver multiProcess/Thread API out of the box20:41
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romaxafreemangordon: so practically new EAL interface implementation wrapper around embedlite should be created...20:41
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romaxafreemangordon: practically yep dummy eal new version... but nut sure how hard to do that...20:42
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romaxafreemangordon: actually you also need to replace tablet-browser-view with EmbedLiteView20:43
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freemangordonoh, tablet-browser-view is closed source iirc :(20:49
freemangordonbut why I need to replace it if I use gtk2 build?20:50
freemangordonisn't it based on gtkmozview?20:50
freemangordon(tablet-browser-view that is)20:50
freemangordonromaxa: ^^^20:51
romaxafreemangordon: no gtkmozembed is dead past...20:52
freemangordonromaxa: I know, but I was thinking to write a wrapper20:52
romaxafreemangordon: tablet-browser-view is just compositor with Pan/Zoom tricks which compositing shared images received from microb-eal20:52
freemangordonso, why I need to rewrite it then?20:53
freemangordonoh, I don't have the interfaces?20:53
romaxafreemangordon: embedLite using Gecko Layers for compositing and ShadowLayers for multi-threading/processing20:53
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romaxafreemangordon: microb was written with that architecture because mozilla did not have Multi/T/P architecture and layers on that time20:54
romaxafreemangordon: now mozilla can do rendering and content parsing/DOM/JS in parallel without special abstraction layers20:55
freemangordonromaxa: I looked in embedlite headers and what I understood is at the end there is a virtual method RenderToImage I need to reimplement to do the actual rendering. Is that correct?20:56
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romaxafreemangordon: you don't need to reimplement it, you just need to call it Widget::Paint event and provide buffer data to Gtk/Q/Image or XSHM Image (which could be uploaded into Gtk X Surface)20:58
romaxafreemangordon: see
romaxafreemangordon: or if you have some GTK GL context you can render into GL context directly21:00
freemangordonromaxa: oh, I got it wrong :D. RenderToImage is not a callback (as I tought initially)21:01
freemangordongetting closer... :)21:02
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freemangordonromaxa: is there any documentation on that API?21:02
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freemangordonromaxa: I think I finally understood what you meant by "you need to reimplement browser-ui". though I will try to find a way to skip that, I am not sure i'll be able to do it with same functionality as stock21:06
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romaxafreemangordon: as far I understood it is gonna be pretty difficult to write that wripper and workaround all UI hacks and tricks...21:07
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freemangordonromaxa: I know you understood the matter way better than me, but reimplementing microb UI is not a task I am fit for :)21:08
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romaxafreemangordon: I guess it make sense just to work together on QML ui implementation which could be used across devices platforms21:08
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freemangordonromaxa: qwazix works on that (UI part). The only think I can help there is with some tweaks.21:09
freemangordonBut microb-engine replacement would be a big win (if possible)21:10
kerioqml is poopoo on the n90021:10
freemangordonkerio: well, it is not that bad, actually qml embedlite interface is usable21:10
freemangordon(test interface that is)21:10
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kerioyeah but it doesn't feel native enough21:11
freemangordonit scrolls between 30-50 fps21:11
freemangordonwell, simple Qt will do the same job too AIUI21:11
romaxafreemangordon: browser-eal cover some sort of functionality but that does not cover async rendering... that part implemented via special hook like browser-eal IPC... practically it could be hoocked in some certain way21:11
keriofreemangordon: are you going to keep the stock browserd for maps and conversations?21:11
freemangordonkerio: so far I am not going to replace anything :P21:12
freemangordonromaxa: I see21:12
romaxaoh, maps and converstions...21:13
freemangordonone of the big problems alternative browsers have on n900, is that they have to fight for memory with browserd21:14
freemangordonthough... maps... who uses that?21:14
keriodon't make me call the one who scrutinizes21:14
freemangordoncall him, I bet he don;t use maps :)21:15
freemangordonromaxa: conversations use microb-engine via gtkmozembed?21:15
keriobut yeah, monav ftw21:15
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ShadowJKhow big is qml (I assume it pulls in much of qt) library overrhead?21:25
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* ShadowJK uses both maps and conversations :D21:26
ShadowJKI'd imagine qt/qml is bigger issue, because while microb can be almost fully swapped out when using another browser (until you get a sms, anyway), that probably isn't true for gtk/hildon..21:29
romaxafreemangordon: no via browser-eal interface21:32
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DocScrutinizer05anybody has a clue about rfc2822?21:45
DocScrutinizer05we need help with gmail rejecting our mails from tmo21:45
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: could you pastebin a full protocol please?21:46
DocScrutinizer05btw it seems qwazix and woody have similar issues with Woody claims mails from don't arrive at him for any administrative stuff (not forwarded mails, so stuff like account creation confirmation mail etc)21:48
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: SPF confusion?21:48
DocScrutinizer05qwazix missing any mails forwarded to him from council@m.o21:48
qwazixhi romaxa, freemangordon, I got one question about embedlite, does it have the normal firefox manager of bookmarks etc (profile folder) or has this been stripped out? I mean do we need to implement the mechanism for bookmarks, sync etc or just the UI?21:49
DocScrutinizer05yeah, it seems this rings a bell here, though i'm *absolute* noob regarding that stuff21:49
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, I mailed X-Fade21:49
DocScrutinizer05I've seen it21:49
qwazixthough no reply yet21:49
DocScrutinizer05err nope, I've not seen it21:50
qwazixI was wondering what did I do wrong or if DocScrutinizer works for the CIA21:50
DocScrutinizer05I've seen woody mailing him, about "problems with list server"21:50
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: could you elaborate a bit about SPF?21:51
keriosome magic string in a DNS TXT record21:52
DocScrutinizer05I'll spam a errormsg chem|st posted in another chan...21:52
Sc0rpiusgmail might reject mails if the reverse doesn't resolve to the domain21:52
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chem|stSc0rpius: checked21:52
DocScrutinizer05aah ok21:52
keriothat, too, but i think that we had that fixed21:52
Sc0rpiusah ok :)21:52
chem|stSc0rpius: I checked all sane things so far21:53
Sc0rpiusalso check if the mail server IP is not in any of those SBL/PBL lists21:53
DocScrutinizer05please wait for chem|st to provide sufficient info21:54
DocScrutinizer05i.e. a pastebin of a failed SMTP transfer21:54
Sc0rpiuspastebin down for me heh21:55
chem|stthe transfer from the logs does not say anything...21:55
chem|stso I checked for blacklisting, rDNS, valid sender email21:55
khmcharacter encoding problem?21:56
chem|stthe onlything I can not change is that sending mail to tmo ends up sending mail to forums.iit.com21:56
DocScrutinizer05wtf is 550 5.7.121:56
chem|stI have no idea21:56
DocScrutinizer05550 might be return code21:56
kerio550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable21:57
kerioooh, 550 5.7.1 unable to relay error21:57
khmkerio: that is exchange-specific21:57
chem|stah ok21:57
chem|stthen I might know what it is21:57
chem|stguys had gmail handling their mx and now do not anymore...21:58
chem|stso those are orphaned accounts21:58
chem|stmx still pointing to google but no account there anymore21:59 SMTP is that's fine21:59
qwazixchem|st, how about putting a notice on tmo about ~repo-down like the r/o notice reggie put? Or repos are up already?21:59
Sc0rpiusbug (as a domain) also lists a MX record which is smtp01.wmfi.net21:59
Sc0rpiuswhy is that? is valid21:59
chem|stqwazix: you mean announce?21:59
qwazixI mean some text over the banners22:00
chem|stI know what you mean22:00
qwazixso that not so many new threads are opened22:00
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chem|stqwazix: lol there were sticky threads + announcements before and people still start new threads about it...22:01
infobotrepo-down is probably
qwazixyeah, but many people incl. me just browse through active topics22:02
qwazixI rarely see subforum view ever22:02
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: qwazix wanna give me a text?22:03
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: sorry?22:03
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: repo down global announcement22:04
DocScrutinizer05qwazix wants to ask you about a header aiui22:04
qwazixRepositories (application catalogues) are temporarily not working due to migration to community driven infrastructure. See this thread for more info22:04
chem|stglobal announcements are shown on top of all views afaik22:05
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qwazixwhere thread = link for ~repo-down22:05
DocScrutinizer05that's no thread22:05
chem|stlol no I wont link to IRC logs...22:05
qwazixoops sorry22:05
qwazixthere is a thread lemme find it22:05
DocScrutinizer05$* is down - see
qwazixty DocScrutinizer22:06
DocScrutinizer05 actually22:07
DocScrutinizer05nfc what vBulletin does with all those different notations22:07
qwazixp (post id) t (topic id)22:07
DocScrutinizer05but why do they differ?22:08
DocScrutinizer05why is there both of them?22:08
qwazixhmm not sure22:08
qwazixprobably to be able to go directly to post?22:08
DocScrutinizer05and honestly, I'd prefer to try and solve the mail issue first22:08
DocScrutinizer05khm been willing to help22:09
DocScrutinizer05kerio too22:09
khmI know mail stuff22:10
chem|stok it is like a thread....22:11
chem|stI will have a look for the header tomorrow, for now everyone who sees threads does see the announcement22:12
qwazixchem|st, and please remove council banner and add this
chem|stqwazix: not now22:12
kerio<Strong Bad> Email is like a prison. A prison with no walls. And no toilet.22:13
* chem|st knows why he is not doing this stuff in #maemo22:13
qwazixchem|st, whenever you like22:13
infobotfrom memory, donate is
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: please stop hijacking the channel22:13
qwazixinfobot #maemo donate is or
infobotqwazix: okay22:14
chem|stqwazix: I know about the banner, and I know where it is setup and I will ask for it when I am on the bottom of my list22:14
kerioqwazix: tinyurl pls22:14
qwazixokay, I'm out22:14
chem|stsending email first receiving email second22:14
chem|styes vBulletin wants to receive mail!22:14
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DocScrutinizer05ok, a last try to restart out effort to find culprit of tmo mail not working22:16
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DocScrutinizer05khm: any suggestions?22:18
khmI don't know the error state.22:18
khmWhat error messages are you seeing?  What do the logs say? etc.  I'm not spun up on this problem, but I'm willing to be.22:19
NeutrinoPoweris it easy to execute an script when I call someone or get called?22:19
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: could you provide a complete trace of the communication (postfix log, tcpdump, wireshark)?22:19
DocScrutinizer05NeutrinoPower: yes22:19
NeutrinoPowerI want limit bittorrent (transmission) of homeserver at calls22:20
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: ? it is a smtp reject...22:22
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: just cc'ed you on a test email from private mail22:22
DocScrutinizer05thought as much22:22
kerioNeutrinoPower: buy a seedbox22:22
khmdo we have logs from the MTA that is rejecting the mail?22:23
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: normal gmail accounts work22:23
chem|stI have seen only two so far and that was people having google manage their mx server22:23
DocScrutinizer05jaffa's email addr is supposed to work, no?22:23
DocScrutinizer05what nope?22:25
chem|stthat is one of those two not working22:25
DocScrutinizer05so how about asking Jaffa_ about it?22:25
chem|stcheck your mail^^22:25
DocScrutinizer05wtf could I learn there?22:26
chem|stthat I wrote him a mail about it you where cc'ed22:26
DocScrutinizer05is it a "real relay issue"? how should I see that?22:26
DocScrutinizer05I just doubt Jaffa_ has general problems like that with his well known mail addr22:27
chem|streal as tmo is unable to send to it my own server is able too22:27
chem|stgmail locked our service some day cause someone else tried to register the domain22:28
chem|stwithout asking22:28
chem|stgot locked and deleted22:28
chem|stthat is why I wont setup mx with google anymore22:28
chem|st250 accounts22:29
DocScrutinizer05sorry, you completely lost me22:29
chem|styou can have google host your mx-server22:30
DocScrutinizer05last word I understood was you suggesting I should check my mail, and I didn't find anything useful there22:30
chem|stlike Jaffa_ does22:30
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: you asked me to contact Jaffa_, and I did before you asked me for22:30
chem|stI'm out22:31
DocScrutinizer05you think I had a magic intuition to suggest you should contact Jaffa_? Of course I did that *because* I saw you did22:31
* chem|st is calling in sick22:31
chem|stoh I missed on the email account data... thought you read it from another channel22:32
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DocScrutinizer05you sent a mail to andrew at bleb, I suggested it's unlikely jaffa has general problems with his mail account, since it's a known addr since long, and we might ask him directly about any known issues with it22:35
Jaffa_chem|st: is working fine, and I got your mail22:36
Jaffa_Is Google playing silly beggars with SMTP connections from TMO? (I've been getting emails from the email bridge)22:38
DocScrutinizer05at least I understood that's about your address there22:41
chem|stJaffa_: yes22:41
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DocScrutinizer05alas we're missing a full protocol of the connection, it might shed some more light on the issue by looking at previous commands22:42
DocScrutinizer05e.g if there's a failing SMP in it22:43
DocScrutinizer05err SPF22:43
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chem|stJan 22 20:24:38 Talk postfix/smtp[26691]: DCCEB186EA: to=<andrewsmailaddress>,[]:25, delay=1.1, delays=0.09/0.18/0.35/0.46, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent22:45
chem|stis what I get22:46
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ShadowJKIs jan 19 after migration? the mails from mailing list took funny path22:47
chem|stguess so yes22:48
* DocScrutinizer05 frowns at DCCEB186EA and dsn=2.0.022:50
DocScrutinizer05though no real clue22:50
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ShadowJK???? (webmail) - mail* - (claimed) - ([]) - [] - (wml0241 []) - - (wml0238 []) - [] - myisp22:53
DocScrutinizer05I wonder WTF is We even got a VM for that and no clue what it's doing22:55
ShadowJKthe wmfi part is more wtf to me :)22:55
ShadowJKrfc2822 is tldr but it looks more about syntax to me22:58
chem|stJaffa_: it is only yours and one more afai get the mails back23:03
chem|stand all other gmail accounts work23:03
chem|stthose two not working are where google is your mx server23:03
chem|stfor your homepage23:03
chem|stso not a gmail address23:04
chem|stthat is all I know23:04
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chem|stand my smtp gets a status=sent since I made the webmaster a proper email address, before that no mails to several servers23:05
chem|stbut they did not accept it... they bounced it back23:05
chem|stso couch time... later!23:05
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xesDocScrutinizer: maybe something concerning the SPF record? ...
DocScrutinizer05xes: many thanks :-)23:09
DocScrutinizer05exactly my suspicion23:10
khmthere don't appear to be any spf records.23:10
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*** konelix has joined #maemo23:11 doesn't seem to have a spf record, i dont think gmail requires one yet?23:14 and wmfi seem to be related, and hosted/managed by Logica, domain owned by Nokia, whatever it is.23:17
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ShadowJKno spf records there either though23:18
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