IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2013-01-21

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jacekowskiMohammadAG: N has about 90% overheads00:02
jacekowskiMohammadAG: compared to 20% on b/g00:02
WizardNumberNextjacekowski: do you talk about 802.11?00:05
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CreteilCan someone have a look at :
CreteilIt's many days now I try to push anything to auto-builder but without success ...00:06
WizardNumberNextactually 802.11B have biggest overhead compared to its speed, 802.11G - I got around 3.2MiB/s TOP from 54mbps, 802.11N have slightly bigger overhead, then 802.11G, but you gain on speed of HT, so why bother00:07
jacekowskino you fon'y00:07
jacekowski300Mbit N in some cases will give you 90% overhead00:07
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jacekowskiand normally around 70%00:08
jacekowskithat's barely faster than g00:08
WizardNumberNext802.11G fixes some problems of 802.11B with short-preamble (most cards can do short-preamble on speeds 2,6,11 mbps00:08
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WizardNumberNexthow do you measure it?00:08
WizardNumberNextI was getting 66mbps of usefull transfer on N00:09
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wirrCreteil, autobuilder is offline at the time being00:09
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jacekowskii'm not measuring it, i've read the spec00:09
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jacekowskiunless devices can do frame aggregation (most do, but there are some that don't) you get 90% overheads00:09
WizardNumberNextthats nowhere close to G (26.8mbps max in TCP)00:10
WizardNumberNextread it again00:10
WizardNumberNextyou get a lot of overhead but not soi much00:10
jacekowskioverheads on G are much lower00:11
WizardNumberNextare you sending 20bytes packets only?00:11
jacekowski802.11n is slow even for 1500 without frame aggregation00:11
WizardNumberNextsorry, but plain G can send up to 24xx bytes at once00:11
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WizardNumberNextwithout frae aggregation it is slower00:12
jacekowskiframe aggregation on g is non existient00:12
WizardNumberNextobvioulsy, because without frame aggregation it is G running on N00:12
WizardNumberNextframe aggregation is possible ONLY if you are using HT00:13
Creteilwirr, any ETA to the resurection of auto-builder ?00:13
WizardNumberNextwithout HT you have 54mbps to use with N overheads, obviously slower, then G00:13
WizardNumberNextframe aggregation wasn't (and isn't) needed on G00:14
jacekowskiit's not needed on n as well00:14
WizardNumberNextaggregate what? frames which comes one after another?00:14
WizardNumberNextframe aggregation works only on two channels, one sends one frame another another frame00:15
jacekowskiand even though spec says it's required00:15
WizardNumberNextwait which spec do you read?00:15
jacekowskiframe aggregation works in completely different way00:15
wirrCreteil, unfortunately not afaik00:16
WizardNumberNextwhere it is stated, I would love to see it00:16
WizardNumberNextbecause if it is true, then I was wrong all the time00:16
jacekowskithere is only one spec00:16
WizardNumberNextpage please00:17
CreteilWell, anyhow thanks ...00:17
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WizardNumberNextI hyave it on my desktop or server00:17
WizardNumberNextanyway my adaptor work only up to 38xx bytes, so no real improvement00:18
WizardNumberNextI cannot do 76xx frames on my RaLink RT307000:18
jacekowskithat's why i'm saying that although aggregation is required00:19
jacekowskiit's almost useless00:19
jacekowskiit's great if you don't care about latencies and aggreagate up to the maximum of 65k00:20
jacekowskisomebody has bothered to work out all the numbers00:22
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WizardNumberNextok, then where in hell he can find 802.11n card, which is capable of sending 64k frames?00:28
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WizardNumberNextI never got any, which is able to send 7935B at once00:29
WizardNumberNextmine does half00:29
WizardNumberNext3839B to be exact00:30
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jacekowskii don't think any cards can do00:31
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jacekowskibut wireless bridges/access points can00:31
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WizardNumberNextjacekowski: what is in bridges/APs? magic black box? NO, those contain ordinary 802.11 cards! Nothing ELSE!00:35
WizardNumberNextThey does exactly same job as cards, which they are based on00:35
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WizardNumberNextstart hunting for good 802.11 hardware (just chips for it, not a complete card) and you will see - nothing out of ordinary. All of what you can find, you will find on market on ordinary cards00:37
WizardNumberNextthere are small exeption like TI TWL1xxx (1251 1253 1273 17xx) and other such chips for mobile/embedded market00:38
WizardNumberNextbut you still can get hold of such device00:39
WizardNumberNextI used TI acx111 in laptop for few weeks (it is very hard to get this card and it is next to useless, if you would not pull firmware from router/AP)00:40
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jacekowskiWizardNumberNext: not exactly01:08
jacekowskiWizardNumberNext: they run in different mode01:09
jacekowskiWizardNumberNext: and quite often with different firmware01:09
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WizardNumberNextI know, but still, if hardware have limitation you cannot fix that limitation with firmware01:10
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WizardNumberNextit would be like fixing phenom processor to buldozer processor with simple microcode update - that is not possible01:11
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jacekowskivery often hardware is limited because they want to sell it as cheaper model01:18
jacekowskibut in case of wifi it's because frame aggregation increases delays01:18
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MekkisScreenhey... how can one press the alt key on the N900 terminal?02:45
DocScrutinizer05usually esc helps as prefix02:50
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ShadowJKInitial benchmarks for two samsung microsdhc cards, samsung essential 16g class 6, Samsung Plus 16g class 10. The class 6 is better, but has weird performance profile. The Class 10 is all around bad. :-)04:17
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if class10 is actually class1.004:20
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UberNeoare the repositories down . tried to install an application using "Faster Application Manager" but it failed to grab the package04:20
infobotmirror is, like,
infoboti heard repo-down is
DocScrutinizer05ok, your next post was, so maybe you didn't notice that explanation I gave04:23
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever04:24
ShadowJKActually, the class 6 is pretty bad too, performance with a filesystem on it will be terrible04:26
UberNeoDocScrutinizer05: i have migrated to a bigger uSd .. it worked . without dd or even without the same size partitions b/w old and new usd04:29
UberNeoonly the cp -a worked like charm04:29
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DocScrutinizer05UberNeo: good to hear you got it sorted :-)04:31
UberNeoDocScrutinizer05: Thanks a lot for all your inputs :)04:31
PocketWulfeis fapman available for diablo?04:47
PocketWulfeand what kind of problems i should say.04:48
WizardNumberNextPocketWufle: read note above about fapman04:59
infobotfrom memory, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever04:59
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: glad to hear it04:59
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WizardNumberNextI think everybody sleeps on #nvidia channel. I asked question ages ago and no answer yet05:00
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UberNeoWizardNumberNext: thanks for ur valuable inputs as well05:01
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: you are welcome05:01
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WizardNumberNextI use Debian from release of sarge (3.1) i revision 005:02
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WizardNumberNexts/i re/in re/05:02
infobotWizardNumberNext meant: I use Debian from release of sarge (3.1) in revision 005:02
WizardNumberNextso I have some experience with GNU/Linux. I have been using other distros previously, but Debian is best so far.05:03
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UberNeoseems like some issues with teh Mirror Repos05:05
UberNeoi have used . Extras Repo05:05
UberNeomirror 105:05
UberNeobut failed to get the package contents05:06
UberNeoany luck with anybody .. to install packages from Mirror 105:06
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: if it is merlin1991's repo mirror, then it didn't work for me - hash sums wrong05:06
UberNeoWizardNumberNext:  i used
PocketWulfewiz i did read it but that wasnt what i was wanting to know. =p05:07
WizardNumberNextI didn't use it. I use the other one, not merlin, not italian05:07
WizardNumberNextit seams to work05:08
UberNeodoes skeiron . works fine .05:08
UberNeoI am using Faster Applicatin Manager05:09
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, fapman is Faster Application Manager, a bad package manager that causes problems, don't use it, ever05:09
WizardNumberNextI never even tried to try to use fapman05:10
UberNeoinfobot: the generic default application manager is very slow .05:10
infobotthat's too long, UberNeo05:10
UberNeowhat else do u suggest . as Application Manager05:10
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: infobot is a BOT. it saves us to type away what we want to say05:11
UberNeohow does infobot works then . so there is no person behind infobot05:12
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: you can use plain apt. I tried aptitude, but it always catches SIGSEGV - segmentation fault05:12
Snafu777apt-get works great05:12
WizardNumberNextno there is nobody behind it05:12
Snafu777real men use apt-get05:12
infoboti guess apt-get is the best thing the world ever had it's highly addictive and much different than dselect, it's a womans desire, ribbed for her pleasure, a superb text-adventure for tarzeau, now with Super Cow Powers, the kdeinit of package managers, overrated and overused, see, or apt-get install synaptic for a gui client, or the shiznit, or see apt-cache, or ask me about ...05:12
WizardNumberNextSnafu777: I agree - I use apt-get if I know what I am looking for05:13
Snafu777apt-cache search05:13
Snafu777to find what u want05:13
Snafu777hildon application manager sucks donkey balls, faster application manager breaks stuff....therefore we're left with apt-get05:13
WizardNumberNextyes, ham is extremely slow05:13
WizardNumberNextI wish aptitude would work05:14
WizardNumberNextI love aptitude - I use as long as long I use Debian05:14
WizardNumberNextsimply love it05:14
UberNeobut FAM .. gives the complete list of application in a very easy readable way05:14
WizardNumberNextbut it breaks stuff05:15
WizardNumberNextif I would have choice between fapman and apt-get and there would nothing else, then I would stick to apt-get05:16
WizardNumberNextat least it does work05:16
WizardNumberNext... as expected05:16
infobotWizardNumberNext, wo says nobody is behind me? I'm not sufficient for you?05:16
* infobot cries05:17
WizardNumberNextapt-get is almost as old as Debian05:17
WizardNumberNextwho is playing with infobot?05:17
infobot:), Skry05:17
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WizardNumberNextnot to worry infobot, I can care about you same as about my beloved hal05:17
WizardNumberNextand I don't mean Hardware Abstraction Layer05:18
WizardNumberNextSkry: nice05:18
UberNeocan we zoom in the running video in N90005:19
PocketWulfei prefered apt-get because of multiple installing. hap only does one at a time.05:19
WizardNumberNextI am not sure about default player, but in mplayer you can05:19
DocScrutinizer05UberNeo: get cssu, there's a zoom option in tv settings05:19
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DocScrutinizer05not meant for arbitrary live zooms05:20
WizardNumberNextDocScrutinizer05: cssu? you mean testing?05:20
DocScrutinizer05I mean CSSU-Testing, if that's what you mean by "testing"05:20
WizardNumberNextyes, that is what I meant05:21
DocScrutinizer05there's also a maemo-testing repository, which is completely unrelated05:21
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WizardNumberNextusualy I avoid anything what is testing05:22
WizardNumberNextafter 3 trials of Debian in testing flavor05:22
DocScrutinizer05WizardNumberNext: good to hear skeiron works05:22
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: ^^^ :-)05:22
WizardNumberNextyes it does, but merlin1991 doesn't05:22
UberNeoKmplayer . has ful screen mode05:22
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: smplayer have it as well05:23
WizardNumberNextand I like it more, but it is up to you what you would like more05:23
UberNeoalso . in Kmplayer . even if u swich off the screen . the video keeps on working . but not in default player05:24
WizardNumberNextsmplayer is full of features, do not know about kmplayer, if it is similar to what I get on Debian, then it is crap compared to smplayer05:24
WizardNumberNextUberNeo: it plays on both default and smplayer after switching off screen05:25
WizardNumberNextin default one it is bit of luck, but usualy it does work05:25
UberNeofor me the luck doesnt works in teh default player05:25
WizardNumberNextyou just leave it for few seconds after video started to play and then switch it off and usualy video is still playing with screen off05:25
UberNeoNo i mean . if u manully .stand by the scrren . from the hard switch on right side of N90005:27
WizardNumberNextunfortunately if video would stop to play, then media player have to restarted and even that sometimes fails to work05:27
WizardNumberNextyes, that is what I mean05:27
WizardNumberNextI usualy do that 3-5 seconds after video started to play and video is still playing, while screen is off05:28
UberNeocool . wil try then05:29
WizardNumberNextsometimes it fails, but usualy I get what i want05:31
DocScrutinizer05never fails for me. What doesn't work though is putting mediaplayer to background05:36
DocScrutinizer05unlike audio playback for videos it immediately pauses05:36
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UberNeoDocScrutinizer05: exactly tht what i wanted to say ..05:41
DocScrutinizer05well, putting video to background isn't exactly simple anyway, and also more or less nonsensical, since the second app in forground now might for example be a second videoplayer, or a browser playing flash video, or whatever05:42
DocScrutinizer05while audio could even get mixed, for video that doesn't make any sense05:43
DocScrutinizer05also video playback is quite resource demanding, so you better don't run other apps in parallel, to avoid negative impact on video playback05:44
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UberNeoDocScrutinizer05: makes sense . but sometimes . we just want to listen to the music .. in the video .. i knw . its a bit unusual . anyways . a bit nonsensical as well05:44
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DocScrutinizer05well, then teach mafw to playback your video media in audio player, and things you want are feasible05:47
DocScrutinizer05it's possible to teach mafw gstreamer pipe to playback flac, I don't see why it can't be done to play any other semi-reasonable source of audio via mafw as well05:49
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DocScrutinizer05maybe it even already works, I honestly never tried ;-)05:50
DocScrutinizer05if there's a plain audio playback plugin for gstreamer, it probably shall 'just work'05:51
UberNeodont knwo how it works in Kmplayer05:53
DocScrutinizer05kmplayer most likely doesn't use mafw anyway05:55
UberNeoyeah makes sense .05:57
UberNeoanyways everybody . late night . better get some sleep . have to go to my shite office .. tmmrw morning :(05:58
WizardNumberNextsee you arounf UberNeo05:59
UberNeoWizardNumberNext: DocScrutinizer05 have a good night06:00
WizardNumberNextyou too06:00
WizardNumberNextI would have very productive night06:01
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Skrywith gstreamer you just leave video decoding out of the pipeline, player (or whatever contructs the pipeline) should probably implement some kind of option to play only audio out of videos. Would be easier to just extract the audio out of the container though.06:03
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WizardNumberNextSkry, he left06:04
WizardNumberNextanyway I would prefer to use gstreamer as it garantee decoding by IVA2, where I do not know if mplayer does that06:05
WizardNumberNextobviously for supported formats06:06
Skryyea, mplayer doesn't06:06
WizardNumberNextgood to know - I was to lazy to find it out06:09
Skrylist of (officially) supported formats is a bit short though06:12
WizardNumberNextit is06:17
WizardNumberNextI was thinking I would find some firmware for IVA2, but no results06:17
Skryyou already have the firmware, if you want software for your dsp search for c64x + whatever06:19
WizardNumberNextI meant the soft running on IVA2 (which in nature is firmware, because it runs directly on hardware)06:28
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DocScrutinizer05the definition of firmware (if there's any at all) is "software in a read-only storage"06:36
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WizardNumberNextdoc: so how do you explain firmware for 802.11 cards - most of them have some area for it, which is perfectly writable06:37
DocScrutinizer51every storage is writable, otherwise it was no storage06:38
SkryI was speaking about /lib/dsp/baseimage.dof, which usually is referred as firmware, regardless if it's right or wrong term to be used06:39
DocScrutinizer51but firmware is program code that can't usually get altered by the system it is executed on06:39
DocScrutinizer51so in this sense even program code transfered to RAM of a wifi or BT chip is firmware since the chip can't load it arbitrarily nor can it usually alter it during runtime06:42
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: :)06:49
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ShadowJKHeh, fennec seems to periodically peg emmc ext3 partition at >75% busy for tens of seconds07:21
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ShadowJKi can feel the smell of sqlite infection here :)07:21
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Snafu777Something strange, in yer neighborhood, who ya gunna call?07:44
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ShadowJKHeh, reading a mailing list thread via gmane web interface on fennec/n90007:45
ShadowJKsshd into n900 from n810, running iostat07:46
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ShadowJKeverytime scrolling jitters on N900, i glance at N810, and sure enough, it shows a big spike in emmc ext3 partition busyness07:46
ShadowJKironically, the thread im reading just morphed into fs devs despairing about the evils of sqlite :-)07:47
WizardNumberNextShadowJK: how do you run iostat constantly07:51
WizardNumberNextI cannot work it out to make it work constantly07:51
ShadowJKiostat -x -k -d mmcblk0p2 mmcblk1p2 1007:51
ShadowJKfor 10s updates07:52
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ShadowJK0p2 is my emmc /home, 1p2 is my microsd swap07:52
ShadowJKremove -d to get cpu stats too07:52
WizardNumberNextI missed INTERVAL in help07:53
LundeKerio: you gonna tell me how to use gconftool07:58
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infobotit has been said that rtfm is Read The F*cking Manual (TM). It is a suggestion to do your homework before posting a question. Sometimes used as RTFM $SPECIFIC_MANUAL to refer to a specific source of information. See also
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WizardNumberNextRead The FINE Manual ;)08:03
Lundeno offense,you said I will tell you08:08
Lundeno problem08:08
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* ShadowJK wants it on n900 :(08:49
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infobotmirror is, like,
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DocScrutinizer05hey, could somebody check what's the actual HAM auto-update schedule in alarmd please? is it a period on an unspecified starting time, or is it every day same time of day, or what?09:43
kerioit's called "check-interval" in gconf09:44
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thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: ~# gconftool -a --all-dirs /apps/hildon/update-notifier09:45
thedead1440 blink-after = 144009:45
thedead1440 check_interval = 144009:45
keriothedead1440: alarmclient09:45
DocScrutinizer05trigger           1358800949 -> 2013-01-21 21:42:29 wd=Mon tz=CET dst=No (T-12h58m8s)09:46
kerioi think it's set again on every check09:47
DocScrutinizer05and with a period of whatever you configured (or default 24h), from the very moment it's checked during start of alarmd on boot09:47
kerioalso hi DocScrutinizer09:47
DocScrutinizer05calculating load on repo.m.o by 40k devices09:48
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DocScrutinizer05will they all ask at once, at 00:00 UTC?09:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how many with -devel enabled?09:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nah, the clock drifts like hell09:48
kerioand there's no mention of midnight09:49
DocScrutinizer05clock drift is negligible09:49
DocScrutinizer05yes, that's what I meant, it's not synced to time of day09:49
kerioi get something like 15 seconds a day09:49
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keriodo you reckon that the majority of those 40k have extras-devel enabled?09:52
kerioit doesn't matter as long as the Release file isn't changed09:52
keriobut still09:52
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* ShadowJK accidentally finds a webpage that makes fennec consume 800M memory09:57
cehteh<pre>pooof</pre>   :)09:57
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I'm concerned (well, Eero is) that all would try to update at same time, like if there was a cron entry09:58
keriocehteh: as in the html tag?09:58
kerioShadowJK: is it myfreecams? because myfreecams works kinda fine in microb09:59
keriowhich is fairly awesome09:59
cehtehfennec never worked well for me09:59
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cehtehmaybe i shall try the most recent release10:00
keriothe non-thumby one in ovi is unusable10:00
cehtehah ok10:00
cehtehno go then10:00
DocScrutinizer05alarmclient -L|grep -C8  ham_updates10:01
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ShadowJKkerio; no10:05
kerioit's still a nice showcase of how the n900 is still lightyears ahead of any other smartphone10:06
kerioand it's also a nice showcase of... other things10:06
kerioor so i've been told10:06
ShadowJKI was browsing for more cards to test and found a local distributor of Integral cards (and others), http://www.muistikauppa.fi10:08
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RST38hShadowJK: Isn't 800MB a normal footprint for Fennec?10:08
ShadowJKwent a few categories deep from left and fennec was pretty soon up to 800M swap in use10:08
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DocScrutinizer05hehe, wouldn't happen here ;-P10:11
DocScrutinizer05even if I would use fenec10:12
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RST38hDoc: Haven't got 800MB RAM?10:18
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ShadowJKMy desktop machine has 8g ram and 7g swap in use10:19
* ShadowJK should restart firefox :-/10:19
RST38hwhy use fennec on a desktop?10:20
RST38hanything special about it?10:20
ShadowJKI'm not.10:21
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DocScrutinizer05RST38h: haven't got 800Mb of swap10:22
ShadowJKBut the first desktop executable version of fennec did have a novel feature, pressing back button was instant load from cache instead of refresh from network :)10:22
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cehtehShadowJK: firefox does that since ages, it even caches the most recent pages in rendered form10:25
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DocScrutinizer05can somebody translate >>flags             STATE(QUEUED) RUN_DELAYED|CONNECTED|BACK_RESCHEDULE<< for me please. (alarmclient -L|grep -C8  ham_updates)10:27
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DocScrutinizer05cehteh: what became of that concept to download *ahead* - i.e. download links on page just viewed, in case user might click on them10:28
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DocScrutinizer05probably somebody found it's brainfart and causes congestion of downlink for the one page you *actually* want to see enxt10:29
freemangordonthe more I read about this qml hing, the more i dislike it. WTF, one should mimic hildon-status-menu?!?10:30
DocScrutinizer05meh, qml10:30
freemangordonromaxa: from memory, what component should be rewritten, so microb-engine to be replaced? is it gtkmozembed or something else?10:31
freemangordonromaxa: int terms of embedlite that is.10:31
freemangordonromaxa: also, did you try to open some flash in qml UI?10:33
thedead1440freemangordon: since the last thumb update I've this behaviour occurring quite frequently: When a notification like a SMS arrives, I click on the X button in the task-switcher to clear it but it won't clear till i repeatedly click it and a message saying hildon-home is not responding; to close or not. Once I click NO the notification usually has cleared. Any idea on what logs to submit to debug this? Thanks!10:34
thedead1440N.B. It used to occur previously but quite rarely like once in 15-20notifications but now its like once in 2 notifications10:35
cehtehDocScrutinizer05: there are some extensions who do that, but it caused a lot trouble and didnt worked well10:35
freemangordonthedead1440: hmm, strange, never seen that here10:35
freemangordonthedead1440: could you install h-d from cssu-devel and see if it still occurs?10:36
thedead1440ok will do so10:36
freemangordonthedead1440: you need Qt too10:36
freemangordonotherwise rotation in Qt apps will be broken10:36
thedead1440qt-mobility and qt4-x11?10:37
freemangordonthedead1440: just lemme confirm with arcean if latest h-d is in -devel10:37
thedead1440there is one in there from 18/0110:37
freemangordonthedead1440: qt-mobility in cssu-devel?10:37
DocScrutinizer05errm, I've seen exactly the same yesterday when trying to close a missed call notifier in taskswitcher. No thumb10:37
DocScrutinizer05but cssu-t10:38
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: for sure it is not because -thumb, I upgraded h-d in recent cssu-thumb with the ne from -testing10:38
freemangordonthe fuck :(10:39
freemangordonohh, arcean is offline10:39
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: accept your typos ;-)10:39
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freemangordoni am using remote desktop to my home PC, sometimes keystrokes are not registered10:40
freemangordonthat's why those "eaten" letters10:40
DocScrutinizer05anyway, general dbus msgs loss alike problems been always common on fremantle like on all dbus systems10:40
DocScrutinizer05I stilll suspect dbus itself is buggy10:40
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: could it be ppoll/pselect?10:41
DocScrutinizer05but not on my desktop KDE, eh?10:41
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freemangordonwe should continue wiki edits for kernel in CSSU in that regard10:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: for sure not on your desktop :D10:42
DocScrutinizer05you generally should resume using wiki10:42
DocScrutinizer05it *works* again :-D \o/10:42
freemangordonI know10:42
freemangordonohh, Pali is offline too :(10:42
DocScrutinizer05on that topic:
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DocScrutinizer05one user and 6 guests on - *incl me(!!)*.  I wonder whom for I do those daily updates there10:55
thedead1440DocScrutinizer05: you should give the thread a silent bump by posting your latest update as a post too && your updates do help ;)10:56
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DocScrutinizer05well, you could post as well ;-D11:01
thedead1440I'm not OP and its your work :p11:01
DocScrutinizer05I hate posts of mine that don't gather at least 8 thanks11:01
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you post to gather thanks? I tought you do it to be useful :P11:02
nakugakahi i was wondering what is up with the reposatorys are they down ? because i havend been able to reach them on my n90011:02
infobotit has been said that mirror is
infoboti heard repo-down is
freemangordonkerio: see, i've learned to write "mirror" correctly :D:D:D11:03
thedead1440haha its like "attack of the zombies" whenever someone asks about repos down :D11:03
nakugaka <- alternative repo's ?11:04
freemangordonnakugaka: more of a backup11:04
thedead1440nakugaka: see  its self-explanatory11:04
nakugakathx i recently finally got a n900 and i was kinda bummed out the repo's were down11:05
nakugakafuck the whole site was acing like it was on acid :P11:05
nakugakabut thx ^^11:05
freemangordonyou've choosen a bad moment :)11:05
nakugakaalso has somebody ever atempted to port maemo5 to the rasberry-pi?11:06
DocScrutinizer05qwazix: you got mail!! \o/ board and council actually (Nemein quote fro hosting and maintenance)11:08
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nakugakais it known that the repo mirror for extra's from merlin 1991 has an hash error11:20
thedead1440nakugaka: did you read the thread i linked to?11:20
nakugakadoing 20 tings at the same time its easy to overlook something :P11:21
nakugakaseriusly the work you need to do just to get an ssh client -_-11:22
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wirrthedead1440, thanks for updating the migration wiki page11:35
thedead1440wirr: np ;)11:35
* wirr holds up a big sign saying: Update, update, update:
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nakugakais it known that the openssh-client has problems with the n900 keyboard because i have some serius problems logging into some of my servers with it11:45
jacekowskiit's your fingers11:46
nakugakanope ive checkd it and it aint my fingers11:47
jacekowskibesides, use keys11:47
nakugakanaa i prefer to restrict it to single ip's anyway and its not open to the wwwz so hightend securoty is not needed11:48
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ShadowJKnakugaka, try type your password into vi or nano first, to see if you're typing what you think you're typing13:25
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DocScrutinizer51or into xchat ;-P13:48
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DocScrutinizer51if it wasn't IRC I'd get nervous for the silence14:14
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WizardNumberNextno more silence14:35
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keriowub wub wub14:56
kerioDocScrutinizer: do you know if HiFo has permissions to rehost the contents of
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jon_ykerio: you do dubstep? :)14:58
jon_ysadly, I know that wub wub only after playing Borderlands 214:58
jon_y80% more wub wub than the previous game14:59
jon_ythere wasn't actually any in the first game though15:00
kerioso there's no wub wub in borderlands 2 either15:00
jon_ythere is, only one scene15:01
kerioso it's ∞% more wub wub than the previous game15:01
jon_yso any amount of wub wub will fill that quota15:01
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myname24Hi , did they release accuweather for N900 or it has been left ? I can't find it in ovi .15:08
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merlin1991nakugaka: which part of my mirror has the hash error?15:11
nakugakai dont remember again15:11
merlin1991because I checked extras-devel and cssu-testing and both were fine15:12
merlin1991hm I'll have to check the other 2 then too :D15:12
nakugakai got the error withn the default app manager on the nokia n90015:12
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nakugakasrry my short term memmory sucks ass so i dont remember anymore15:12
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nakugakabut it was community community-extra or community-testing15:13
nakugakabecause those are the ones i added at that time15:14
thedead1440merlin1991: community, extras and extras-devel all have hash sum mismatch on yours:
merlin1991they worked with apt-get15:15
nakugakalol not everybody uses apt-get15:15
merlin1991yeah but it's the fastes way to check ususally15:15
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merlin1991I didn't bother to fire up ham15:15
thedead1440merlin1991: it didn't work on apt-get too IIRC15:15
merlin1991huh, it worked for me15:16
nakugakabut hey do you guys know if maemo5 has been ported to other devices sucsessfully ?15:16
nakugakabecause i couldent find any info on it15:16
merlin1991well there is corida which got the hildon-desktop running on mer15:16
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nakugakaah so it wont be a waste of time for me to try to pert it to the rasberry po :P15:17
merlin1991so basically any device that runs mer15:17
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nakugakanice thx15:17
merlin1991nakugaka: well depends on what you wan to run on the pi from maemo515:17
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keriothere's a ton of closed stuff in fremantle15:17
nakugakathe whole distro if possible15:17
nakugakalol i have a lot of time and i am good at reverse engineering15:17
nakugakasure some parts wont be legal but those i just keep for my self and the rest that is open i publish15:18
infobot[closed] or
kerioyou don't have enough time15:18
nakugakabut just the interface will be nice to have on a device like the pii with a small touch schreen15:18
merlin1991but if you feel like reversing interesting bits, the cssu always has space for stuff that need fixing ;)15:19
nakugakaif i remmember i will look into it once i got the sdk running on a dedicated machine15:19
nakugakauhm has the wiki problems because its slo as a snail15:20
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merlin1991thedead1440: I just checked, all 4 work with apt-get15:22
keriohm, wiki is down again maybe?15:22
merlin1991time to fire up ham15:22
keriomerlin1991: checked with ham, your community-testing mirror works15:23
nakugakabut kerio if you meant with that that some things shouldent be open i disagree with that i strongly believe that every thing should be open and that companys just should tell people before using the devices that if they fuckup because of a lack of knowledge its their own fault15:23
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nakugakanaa the wiki works but takes a very very long time to load15:23
kerionakugaka: no, i mean that there's a fuckload of things that you'll have to reverse engineer15:23
nakugakalol i have more than enough15:23
nakugakasince i dont have a job15:23
thedead1440merlin1991: strange i'll try it again... the last i tried was when i set-up the thread15:24
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nakugakaby the way are there packaged backups of the repositorys so i can set up private repositorys at home because locally doing that is a lot faster :P15:25
kerionakugaka: just reprepro15:25
kerioor apt-mirror, but afaik reprepro is better15:26
nakugakasrry if i dont understand that but ive never tried it before but i wanted to try it so i thougth i do it for the n900 but i dont understand that lingo yet15:26
nakugakawait do you mean download it to the phone15:26
keriono, you won't have enough space15:26
nakugakanvm i already found what ya meant15:27
nakugakaand now i have another thing to use my rasberry pi for :)15:27
kerioseriously though, fremantle is about as unportable as it gets15:28
kerioespecially because, given the choice, you'd just make a similar, but better, system15:28
wirrnakugaka: i'd be very interested to run hildon-desktop on armhf... so please share your findings on talk.maemo.org15:29
nakugakawell it whould bring the os completely in the hands of the community witch in my opinion whould be a lot better15:29
Skrynakugaka: I have hildon-desktop running on top of Arch Linux15:29
kerioSkry: the cordia one?15:31
nakugakastill looking at the list and figuring out what the main packages of the hildon gui is and then i whould need to look at them what are closed and what not so i dont know how to replay at that skry15:31
Skrykerio: the git one15:32
kerioSkry: oh, not on a computer though15:32
kerioafaik hildon-desktop has problems with resolutions other than 800x480 or 480x80015:32
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merlin1991kerio: there is a patch in cordia for that15:33
kerioi know, but is it in the mainline h-d?15:34
Skryyup, looks fine at 1080p :)15:34
merlin1991kerio: nope we never ported the patch to the cssu h-d because well, there is no need :D15:34
merlin1991btw Skry are you running the cordia h-d or the cssu h-d ?15:35
Skrycssu hd with some patches from cordia15:36
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nakugakabut il leave the convo since my gf is here well contineu this later on ok cya ^^15:41
merlin1991Skry: anything that can be applied to cssu hd without breaking compatability with the n900 would be nice to have15:41
merlin1991so that other have an easier starting point in the future15:41
merlin1991*hint* merge-request *hint*15:42
Skrywe'll see15:43
Skrybut yeah, ofc you get everything usable too15:44
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merlin1991btw Skry did you run only hildon-desktop or the whole hildon libraries aswell?15:45
infobotmerlin1991 meant: btw Skry do you run only hildon-desktop or the whole hildon libraries aswell?15:45
Skryclutter08, libmatchbox2, libhildon, libhildondesktop and the few other libs15:46
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Skrynot tried hildon-home etc yet, I'll try to work out h-d first and put everything on github15:50
SkryI was planning to make it usable on "normal" distros15:51
Skrycurrently just busy with kernel and alarm stuff so, all in it's time15:52
merlin1991yeah, it would be awsome if we could make the cssu h-d usable on "normal" distros15:52
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wirrmerlin1991, wouldn't it be nice as well if we could run h-d ontop of generic armhf distro _on the n900_?15:54
Skrythat's what i'm doing15:55
merlin1991wirr: that's cordia15:55
Skrynot interested running it on desktop, though I did that too15:55
merlin1991(and it runs)15:55
wirrmerlin1991, what do we loose in comparision to plain maemo?15:55
merlin1991well all closed apps15:55
wirrSkry, cool... do you have hardfp binaries I could test?15:55
merlin1991(which includes the dialer)15:56
wirrmerlin1991, hmmm i thought we could you ofono for that15:56
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Skrywirr: only "beta" packages for alarm15:57
Skryofono does not include gui dialer15:57
Skrythere is sphone but it's outdated, probably others too15:58
Skrystuff from meego, etc15:58
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wirrSkry, what do you use under the hood? what kernel? sgx-drivers?16:01
Skryscreenshot or didn't happen:
wirrnice... will you publish a list of the patches you used?16:02
SkryI use Arch Linux ARM with my own custom packages (and repo), 3.5 kernel, sgx drivers from mer/nemo16:02
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Skrykernel source is on github, repository is public, thread is on tmo16:03
wirrcool, thanks16:03
Skryno need to build yourself, I'm putting out packaged kernel from git periodically16:05
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vi____wait what16:13
vi____You are running arch with 3.5 kernel AND SGX drivers?16:13
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vi____and the sgx drivers work with HW accelerated graphics and opengl and shit?16:14
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vi____AND you are running hildon as the 'WM'16:15
Skryno opengl, not possible with the hardware but gles2 yes, shit (Xv etc) yes, h-d as a wm yes16:16
vi____how is this even possible???16:16
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Skrybecause I wanted?16:16
vi____does the phone work?16:17
vi____omg wtf16:17
vi____what do you use to dial with?16:17
Skrydbus :)16:17
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teotwakijust bought a 16GB class 10 uSD card16:19
teotwakiturns out it's a class 416:19
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vi____teotwaki: do know the whole class thing is BS right?16:19
Skryprobably faster than that class 1016:19
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vi____To achieve these so called 'class 10' speeds they meddle with the guts of the card in such a way that reduces overall performance and life span.16:21
teotwakiwell, tell ya what, I have a class 4 that I thought was a class 10, which gave me a 4MB/s sequential write16:22
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vi____Does it say class 10 on the front?16:23
vi____Where did you buy it.16:23
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teotwakiWell, it didn't say anywhere, as it turns out, there was a logo with a 10 and a circle around it16:24
teotwakiin my hurry to on time at work, I mistook it as the class 10 rating16:24
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teotwakiit's only once I opened it and took a look at the actual card that I saw a 4 with a circle around it printed on it.16:24
teotwakilocal supermarket16:24
vi____Sorry mate.16:24
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teotwakiwell, only 12 bucks down the drain, it's for a 1080p sports camera.16:25
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jacekowskicamera with uSD card?16:25
teotwakiI already tried with a 2GB class 4 card, the card can't keep up, I tried with a class 6 4GB card, which kinda works, but a few hickups. Recommended is 16GB class 10.16:26
teotwakijacekowski: yeah, kinda like the gopro16:26
jacekowskii wouldn't bother with 1080p then16:26
jacekowskilens on that camera probably cannot resolve 108p16:26
teotwakiwell, I wasn't planning on using the 1080p much, the 720p gives 60fps, which is kind of nicer in a number of ways.16:26
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jacekowskiand well, i've got old class4 card and i can record 1080p just fine16:28
jacekowskinormal class 10SD16:28
teotwakiit's a lot easier to divide 60fps to get to 24 fps than going from 30 fps to 24.16:28
jacekowskirecord 24fps16:29
teotwakiit's fixed 30 or 60.16:29
teotwakiUS company, methinks.16:29
kerio24fps is an abomination16:30
r00t|homeso you pay $400 for your gopro hero, and then need to save ten bucks on the sd card?16:30
jacekowskiteotwaki: thing is, it's US standard, that 24FPS16:30
jacekowskiteotwaki: EU would be 2516:30
kerioUS standard is 30fps16:30
keriowell, US standard is 60fps interlaced16:31
jacekowskii though NTSC was 23.97 or therabouts16:31
teotwakiaye, 30FPS is US NTSC (29.97 fps actually)16:31
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keriothat's probably a conversion error from the imperial frames per second16:31
jacekowskibesides, i don't see a problem16:32
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jacekowskiall hardware now can play 30fps and other16:32
teotwakir00t|home: trying to troll eh?16:32
jacekowskiwithout any problems16:32
jacekowskiteotwaki: he's got a point16:32
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teotwakiwell, no, I got a gift, I need an SD card, I took the wrong one, I never blamed any one else but myself. I'll just go and grab another one, no problem there.16:33
teotwakiso the only point he's got is about as nil as fuck.16:33
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DocScrutinizer05EHLO teotwaki16:53
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: HELO16:54
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jonwilI never realized just how much JUNK I have on this hard disk :)17:00
* jonwil is currently trawling through the junk to find anything important so he can back it up on DVD17:01
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WizardNumberNextjonwil: DVD have short life-span, which highly depends on amount of light, which strikes it17:03
WizardNumberNextyou would have to hide it from light to consider it as backup media17:03
jonwilwell what is the other alternative for backups that doesn't cost $$$?17:03
jonwilUSB thumb drive? USB hard disk?17:04
WizardNumberNextI backup my data on 7 HDDs17:04
WizardNumberNextwell DVD is definitely cheap, but considering it capacity HDD is cheaper17:04
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jonwilDVD is much easier for offsite backup than external HDD17:05
WizardNumberNextthas true17:06
WizardNumberNextas long as host is capable of writing/reading DVD17:06
WizardNumberNextwhich my server isn't17:06
Luke-JrI disagree17:06
Luke-JrDVD is no easier than external HD17:07
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jonwilIt is if you have an unused spindle of blank DVDs and no spare external HDD :)17:07
jonwilplus for the amount of stuff I actually need to back up, a HDD is overkil17:08
jonwilThe guys with mission-critical stuff use tape drives but those cost $$$, as do the tapes17:08
WizardNumberNextespecially in my case - HDDs are already there, DVD would have to be added and I have niether space for it nor spare socket for PATA (all SATAs are occupied anyway and I won't buy DVD-drive for server)17:09
Luke-Jrthe time it takes to decide between "important" and "not so important" is more expensive than the HD :P17:09
jonwilnot around here17:09
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WizardNumberNextthe time for decission might be too long for data, if HDD is failing17:10
jonwilin this case the HDD is fine17:10
jonwilI am doing a backup because I should have done one ages ago and I just had a scare (broken computer, problem turned out to be power supply) so I want to back up just in case next time is more serious17:10
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WizardNumberNextin my case I need 6 new 3TB HDDs - I got fed up with badblocks and slow NFS17:11
warfarehi there.17:11
Luke-JrWizardNumberNext: NFS is slow? I use sshfs :P17:11
Luke-Jrjust because I'm lazy17:11
WizardNumberNextNFS is slow, because of drives17:11
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WizardNumberNextif it comes to NFS performance - it fills up my connection - 116MiB/s17:12
WizardNumberNextconnection between my home-server and dekstop17:13
Luke-JrI ranted that my NAS drives can't keep up with even 100 mbit sshfs, why do they advertise 1 gbit link? :P17:13
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WizardNumberNext115.85MiB/s MAX17:14
WizardNumberNextmy NAS is on server17:15
WizardNumberNext115.85MiB/s is absolut MAX on 1gbps link17:15
WizardNumberNextyou cannot get any faster!17:15
WizardNumberNextmy NAS is limited only by 802.3ab and HDDs speed17:17
jonwilso yeah I already have the blank DVDs and the DVD burner and I dont have the USB HDD or any spare cash so in my case DVDs is the only option :)17:17
WizardNumberNextobviously overhead of FS counts as well17:17
RST38hMeanwhile: Atari Files For Bankruptcy17:17
WizardNumberNextwhich in case of one 372GiB HDD is huge, because of hunderds of thounsands of files on it17:18
RST38h(if only to dump the Frenchies)17:18
Luke-JrI don't even have a DVD reader anymore <.<17:18
WizardNumberNextI keep it only because I rip DVD movies -otherwise its useless17:18
WizardNumberNextATARI been hlding for quite long17:19
WizardNumberNextits shame Amiga never made it and had to go to Commodore17:19
WizardNumberNextmine n900 is suddenly quite warm17:23
khmthe Atari that is filing for bankruptcy is Infogrames17:24
khmInfogrames bought the Atari name when the real Atari went bankrupt ages ago17:24
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romaxafreemangordon: ping17:25
kerioWizardNumberNext: battery?17:26
WizardNumberNextvery probable, because it is warm at back as well17:27
WizardNumberNextand I just checked out power usage and it takes over 300mA17:27
WizardNumberNextwhich is strange17:27
keriono, i meant, is the battery drained17:27
kerioWizardNumberNext: are you on wifi?17:27
WizardNumberNextnever did that before17:27
WizardNumberNextI wasn't17:27
WizardNumberNextnow I am17:28
keriooh dammit17:28
keriowhy did you do that17:28
keriois the power usage back to normal now?17:28
WizardNumberNextanyway battery is almost empty17:28
WizardNumberNextstill above 300ma17:28
WizardNumberNextwhich is too much17:28
keriodisconnect from wifi17:28
WizardNumberNextnormaly it is around 170am17:28
WizardNumberNexteven on wifi17:29
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kerio170 is ridiculous, it should be more like 1517:29
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WizardNumberNext352ma with wifi and bt off17:30
jonwilwhat do you get if you switch into airplane mode and turn of cellular radios too?17:30
WizardNumberNextnow even modem is off and still 35317:30
keriowhat does powertop say?17:30
WizardNumberNextI just turned off every radio possible17:31
keriotry modprobe -r wl12xx17:31
WizardNumberNextdo not have powertop17:31
WizardNumberNextI have applet, which swithces it off and on17:32
WizardNumberNextshould do same trick17:32
WizardNumberNext304 after removing wl12xx17:33
WizardNumberNextin exactly your way - just to be sure I got what you expect17:33
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WizardNumberNextsomething have drained my battery in just 2 hours 30-40 minutes - almost nothing left17:36
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StucKmanI know this might be off-topic here, but which would be a channel to ask questions about the nokia n9?17:36
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StucKmanWizardNumberNext: I find that the GPS drains a lot17:36
StucKmanWizardNumberNext: tx17:36
WizardNumberNextit is not GPS for sure17:36
StucKmanWizardNumberNext: you mean #harmattan?17:36
WizardNumberNextI would get icon for it, if it would on17:37
WizardNumberNextyes I did17:37
StucKmanWizardNumberNext: does top/htop show any runaway app?17:38
WizardNumberNextno, checked it just before reboot17:38
merlin1991Skry: which gtk version, 3 or 2?17:39
StucKmanI have another question, n900 related17:39
StucKmanare the repos really offline?17:39
WizardNumberNextthey very offline17:40
infobotrumour has it, mirror is
StucKmanno alternatives?17:40
StucKmanah, cool17:40
WizardNumberNextbut here yoiu have mirrors ^^17:40
Skrymerlin1991: 217:41
WizardNumberNextI used ~mirrors17:41
infoboti heard mirror is
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WizardNumberNextstill same one17:42
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WizardNumberNextI used the other one, which is not in this post17:42
WizardNumberNextmerlin doesn't work for me17:42
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WizardNumberNextkerio: after reboot, with UMTS/HSPA with internet on it and IM accounts, with CPU on 805MHz - 39mA17:44
keriodoes the IM include skype?17:44
keriowait, >data over UMTS17:44
WizardNumberNextwith overclocking, data, IM and yes - skype as well - just 39mA17:44
WizardNumberNextyes, data over umts at the moment17:44
kerio40mA is still ridiculous17:45
keriounless it's your only computer17:45
merlin1991kerio: you tested my mirror in ham right?17:45
WizardNumberNextits while display is off17:45
keriomerlin1991: that's what i said17:45
WizardNumberNextmerlin1991: I tested it in ham and apt17:45
merlin1991WizardNumberNext: did it work with apt?17:45
merlin1991(because it does for me)17:46
WizardNumberNexthash sums wrong17:46
merlin1991ah well time to test on device then, scratchbox apt didn't complain (probably checked only the md5 though, I remember a bug about that)17:46
keriocan you pastebin the whole output of `apt-get update`?17:46
WizardNumberNextdoesn't matter, if I went through wi-fi with proxy or without or even hspa17:46
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WizardNumberNext29.8mA measured with bq2720017:47
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kerioWizardNumberNext: i believe you, but stop doing that much stuff17:48
kerioor your battery life will suck17:48
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WizardNumberNextkerio: I have 5 batteries in total - why should I care17:48
WizardNumberNextall are full usually17:48
kerioi want 5 batteries too ._.17:49
WizardNumberNext2GBP each on ebay17:49
WizardNumberNextjust because I wanted original17:49
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WizardNumberNextI had 6, original-original and 5 from ebay17:50
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WizardNumberNextbut one got broken and it is slightly to hard to solder it and it is not worth its time, if battery is worth 2GBP. I earn 12.5GBP per hour, was playing with this battery for 2 hours and didn't fix it, so I lost 25GBP worth of time on it, istead of spending 2GBP for new one17:51
WizardNumberNext26mA on wifi17:52
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merlin1991WizardNumberNext: yep seems like some hashsum is indeed wrong18:01
* merlin1991 investigates18:01
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merlin1991hm funky, there is a checksum for binary-all but I don't even have that  o_O18:04
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merlin1991that release file is full on foobar18:05
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merlin1991funnily that sb apt does not complain18:07
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: chem|st: The email notifications from TMO seem to be coming from a different address now. rather than (e.g.) ''18:08
keriomerlin1991: really? can you pastebin the error message?18:08
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merlin1991kerio: the reprepro mirror is fine because the Release file is generated18:08
merlin1991reprepro mirror aka minimal mirror18:08
keriomerlin1991: i'm talking about your community-testing mirror18:09
keriois that one a reprepro one?18:09
merlin1991nope, I'm talking abotu extras-devel :D18:09
keriowhy would one use the full-blown extras-devel mirror?18:09
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DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: I still don't see any mails, so... we're working on it18:10
merlin1991about nobody knows the non full-blown one ;)18:10
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DocScrutinizer05Jaffa: actually chem|stdoes18:10
keriomerlin1991: but it has a nice URL and everything18:10
keriobtw, change the extras-devel-light .install18:10
merlin1991kerio: and it never got published18:10
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merlin1991kerio: install file is fixed18:12
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merlin1991hm funnily after apt-get updating once it did take the extras-devel mirror anyways18:13
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infobothmm... mirror is
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keriomerlin1991: is the light repo taken from your mirror, or is it taken from again?18:27
merlin1991it is taken from my mirror18:28
merlin1991but all the checksums are redone18:28
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eyescreammerlin1991: I didn't follow all of the conversation but in case it's relevant: I'm getting a hash sum mismatch on your extras repo. extras-devel works fine, though.18:44
kerioeyescream: extras-devel is a superset of extras18:46
eyescreamkerio: Meaning that only one can be active at one time?18:48
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kerioonly one *should* be active at one time18:48
kerioit's not harmful to keep both enabled, it's just useless18:48
kerioso if you use extras-devel all the time, you might as well remove extras18:48
eyescreamI see, thanks. Will just go for extras-devel, then. Stable enough from what I've read.18:49
keriomerlin1991: fix your extras repo too!18:50
freemangordonromaxa: latest embedlite plays big buck bunny video @ ~14 fps on n900, but it plays :). scrolling fps vary from 25-50, still didn't manage to find why. BTW sorry for the little mess i've created on github with my last commit, will be more careful in future :)18:50
kerioeyescream: btw, if you're fine with being up to a day behind, use extras-devel-light18:50
eyescreamkerio: What's the difference?18:50
kerioit doesn't have all the versions of every package, only the latest18:51
kerio(which is what apt will end up installing)18:51
romaxafreemangordon: did you change RGB32 to RGB16? it should be in latest source18:51
eyescreamAh, I see.18:51
kerioand uses pdiffs, so each repo update will take seconds18:51
freemangordonyep, i pulled the latest18:51
freemangordonromaxa: ^^^18:51
romaxafreemangordon: ok, I see18:51
eyescreamThat sounds good.18:51
kerioand a handful of kB instead of the whole 9MB that the official extras-devel repo takes for every refresh18:51
freemangordonromaxa: and finished your work on X11InitThreads18:52
eyescreamJust got my N900, so pretty new to this. Picked a weird time. :)18:52
kerionote: i'm not sure if HAM (hildon application manager) supports pdiffs correctly18:52
keriobut it'll have to wait until there's a change in the repo, right now the autobuilder is down18:52
kerioand yes, you picked a weird time18:53
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freemangordonromaxa: any idea why Q_WS_MAEMO5 is not defined? I saw you've used #if defined __arm__ in qml test18:53
romaxafreemangordon: scrolling may vary due to content update notifications... I guess requesting content to repaint during kinetic scroll cause CPU usage and generic slowdown18:53
eyescreamI'm nothing if not adaptable. So no problem. :P18:53
freemangordonromaxa: yeah, could be. But in reality it is smooth and useful18:54
romaxafreemangordon: how many fps do you get on just moving page with finger up/down?18:54
freemangordonon is that18:54
freemangordondevice CPU@80518:54
romaxafreemangordon: ok, I see, I guess something need to be checked around pixman perf18:54
freemangordonromaxa: I guess mozilla is using system pixman. ot not?18:55
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romaxafreemangordon: no by default it builds local pixman18:55
freemangordonooh. :(18:55
romaxafreemangordon: which is supposed to be latest upstream18:55
eyescreamkerio: If you don't mind to answer this, would you recommand CSSU stable or testing? Or rather: Is testing stable enough to be used?18:55
* RST38h moos18:55
RST38hEHLO romaxa18:55
freemangordonany chance to tel it to use the system one? as fremantle one is heavily neon optimized18:56
RST38hHow are browsers doing nowadays? =)18:56
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freemangordonromaxa: just redid the test with only moving page up-down, device not overclocked, fps varies between 30 and 4018:58
freemangordonI'd call that usable18:58
romaxafreemangordon: still slow... it should be around 50ish I guess19:01
romaxaRST38h: not very good... a lot of work need to be done19:01
freemangordonromaxa: hmm, I saw fps increases if I use main.qml instead of main_meego.qml, lemme recheck19:02
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kerioeyescream: think debian stable and debian testing19:03
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freemangordonromaxa: yep, with using main.qml fps stays >40 . weird :)19:05
WizardNumberNextkerio: with same depncy problems as debian testing?19:05
eyescreamkerio: Thanks, though I'd rather not think debian at all. :P19:05
kerioeyescream: fremantle is loosely based on debian etch, iirc19:05
kerioWizardNumberNext: with the same what?19:05
kerioeyescream: cssu stable is meant to be indistinguishable from stock pr1.319:06
WizardNumberNexteyescream: kerio means it is comparable to debian stable/testing ideology19:06
kerioit's basically a bugfix release19:06
WizardNumberNextdependency problem19:06
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kerioi'm not aware of any dependency problem in debian testing19:06
JaffaDocScrutinizer05: chem|st: Thanks19:06
eyescreamkerio: I'm not talking about the software, more about the general philosophy of the project, so no problem there.19:07
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WizardNumberNextleave it be for month and if you need to iunstall anything else you have to reinstall whole debian19:07
eyescreamI guess I'll just read up on the differences and then see whether there's anything worthwhile to me in testing.19:07
kerioWizardNumberNext: why do you expect to be able to install new versions with old libraries?19:07
kerioeyescream: probably loads, if you're a "power" user19:07
eyescreamkerio: That's good to know. Reading up on it on the wiki now.19:09
romaxafreemangordon: and with main_meego.qml - is it slower or faster?19:09
freemangordonromaxa: slower19:09
keriothere's also an optional thing where you install half of the packages of the system from the repo of a weird bulgarian dude with a fetish for modern compilers19:09
WizardNumberNextkerio: in stable you can add anything anytime, testing you HAVE to keep up to date and you should do at least two upgrades a week, otherwise you end up with dependency problems and unable to add and/or upgrade soft19:09
romaxafreemangordon: main_meego.qml it is mainly for Meego19:09
freemangordonromaxa: BTW all this is with SW rendering19:09
kerioand it makes the whole system a lot faster19:09
keriofreemangordon: hi!19:10
freemangordonromaxa: yeah, that is why i tested main.qml19:10
romaxafreemangordon: main.qml intended to be used on desktop Qt build19:10
freemangordonkerio: hi19:10
romaxafreemangordon: probably fremantle has more optimized container but I'm not sure19:10
freemangordonromaxa: the point is that it is used if __arm__ is defined ;)19:10
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eyescreamkerio: I assume you are referring to the CSSU-thumb thing I've been reading about? Is that really worth it?19:11
RST38hromaxa: same shit here19:11
kerioyeah, it's kinda great19:11
WizardNumberNextkerio: I am trying to compile cross-compiler (amd64-arm) gcc 4.7.2, but no real effects yet - now I would try debian way and see19:12
eyescreamI assume that's based on testing?19:12
kerioit does require a different kernel though, so you need to be a little more wary of potential problems regarding that19:12
kerioyeah, it closely follows cssu-testing19:12
eyescreamCan I switch from one to the other without reflashing? In case I decide to try out the normal version first.19:13
kerioyou can go cssu-testing -> cssu-thumb19:13
kerioand, in theory, you can also go cssu-stable -> cssu-testing, but that's less tested19:13
WizardNumberNextkerio: what about going cssu-stable -> cssu-testing?19:13
keriogoing backwards is a bit harder, because apt isn't keen on downgrading19:13
WizardNumberNextyes, you have to ask him nicely19:14
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kerioor you have to shove a priority 1001 down his throat19:15
freemangordonoh, shit, it is Q_WS_MAEMO_5 not Q_WS_MAEMO5 :D19:15
romaxafreemangordon: that is default, ideally you can pass qml file in cmdline... but if you have reasonable working define that is also ok19:16
eyescreamkerio: Seeing as I'm fairly new at this, what would I have to look out for that might break the system when running the thumb version (and thus the custom kernel)?19:16
keriorunning a binary with the thumb2 ISA requires a certain patch in the kernel you're running19:16
freemangordonromaxa: i am testing it by passing qml file in cmdline. will use Q_WS_MAEMO_519:17
keriopotential pitfalls can happen if you restore an old backupmenu backup19:17
eyescreamkerio: Thanks again. I guess I'll go for the standard CSSU testing now and while playing around, I'll read up on things a bit more and then switch to CSSU-thumb to try that out.19:18
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kerioon the other hand, if you install cssu-thumb immediately, and then you only take backups with the correct modules...19:19
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eyescreamAll I've done so far is flash the phone to restore it and add the temp repos. So nothing to back up, really.19:20
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keriobtw, uninstall "cherry" immediately19:22
kerioit's the MyNokia premium sms subscription bullshit19:22
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eyescreamYeah, been reading this
eyescreamWill have to get rid of all of those that are safe to remove.19:25
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freemangordonromaxa: does embedlite load plugins? as it seems i am unable to enable flashplayer19:39
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romaxafreemangordon: ideally it should, but I never tested that case, due to only one pluign was useful in that case and now it is no very actual anymore...20:03
freemangordonromaxa: well, why not actual, ads don't require v11 :D. on a serious note, I added user_pref("plugins.disabled", false); in /home/user/.mozilla/mozembed/prefs.js, with no success. BTW there is a bug in UI(I guess), one can't change about:config settings20:06
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romaxafreemangordon: you need to put plugin in mozilla system plugins folder, or put into /home/user/.mozilla/plugins20:09
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romaxafreemangordon: after that run test embed with NSPR_LOG_MODULES=Plugins:520:10
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freemangordonit is in /home/user/.mozilla/plugins ofc, which is a link to /usr/lib/browser/plugins. ok, will do20:10
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freemangordonromaxa: nothing changed with export NSPR_LOG_MODULES=Plugins:5. And nothing logged20:13
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freemangordonhowever, it is not that important by now20:13
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romaxafreemangordon: also I guess it should probably be needed to enable some of maemo platform defines in mozilla/dom/plugins ..20:19
romaxafreemangordon: in order to get it work20:19
freemangordonaah, i see20:19
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Sc0rpiusso TMO mail is back20:22
Sc0rpiusbut no repos/builder20:22
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Sc0rpiusbut we're seeing progress :)20:22
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Sc0rpiuswhat saddens me is that there are only 40.000 N900s alive out there.20:25
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kerio40k is a lot20:27
Sc0rpiusnot a lot compared of the billion iPhones (in all their versions) that there are out there20:27
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Sc0rpiusok, not a billion, but 400 millions confirmed by September 2012.20:29
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warfarehi everyone. I got an n900 today. How do I install the CSSU with being down? Any hints for manual install?20:32
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infobotfrom memory, mirror is
WizardNumberNextwarfare: ^^ use mirror20:41
warfareWizardNumberNext: I already have the mirror configured, I'm just missing the magical packet name to install ;)20:42
WizardNumberNextupdate now20:42
freemangordonwarfare: read the wiki page
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freemangordonwarfare: depending on which flavor you want to install, it is either or
freemangordonchange it accordingly20:44
warfarefreemangordon: is not reachable - is installing mp-fremantle-community-pr sufficient?20:45
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freemangordonwarfare: no20:57
freemangordonwarfare: you need community-ssu-enabler (or something). though I am not sure if it is enough21:00
kerioit should be21:01
warfarefreemangordon, kerio: thanks, this does the trick.21:04
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UberNeoseems like all the QML/QT applications are failing to start on my N90023:31
UberNeogetting below error from syslog23:31
UberNeoJan 21 21:30:11 Nokia-N900 qmltube[1591]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GObject - g_object_get: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed Jan 21 21:30:12 Nokia-N900 qmltube[1591]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed23:31
UberNeoany suggestions??23:33
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UberNeosame with Twimgo23:34
UberNeoJan 21 21:34:02 Nokia-N900 TwimGo[1594]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GObject - g_object_get: assertion `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed Jan 21 21:34:03 Nokia-N900 TwimGo[1594]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed23:34
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Sc0rpiusupdate to CSSU23:36
merlin1991UberNeo: do you have qt and/or hildon-desktop from cssu-devel?23:41
UberNeomerlin1991: how to check that23:42
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kerioUberNeo: do you know what cssu-devel is?23:42
kerioor have you ever read that particular name somewhere23:43
UberNeokerio: not sure though23:43
UberNeoeverywhere .. getting the suggestion to do .. apt-get install mp-fremantle-community-pr23:44
UberNeonot sure whats this package does mp-fremantle-community-pr23:45
Sc0rpiusthat's a nice suggestion.23:45
keriono, you don't do that23:45
kerioSc0rpius: that's not a nice suggestion23:45
kerioUberNeo: where have you read that?23:45
Sc0rpiuswhy? it works23:46
Sc0rpiusI installed the first several CSSU packages like that23:46
kerioSc0rpius: except that it fucks up *badly* with autoremove23:46
keriocommunity-ssu-enabler marks the packages that would be installed by the nokia metapackage as manually installed for a purpose23:46
kerioand also sets up the HAM domain information for the repository23:47
Sc0rpiusI see23:47
Sc0rpiusI wonder if it's possible to install the whole CSSU without needing the repository.maemo.org23:47
kerioof course23:47
keriothere are mirrors23:47
merlin1991Sc0rpius: yep, throw in a mirror and just do it :D23:47
Sc0rpiusI updated to CSSU-thumb like 2 days ago23:47
Sc0rpiusnow I'm not sure if I like it :(23:48
kerionote that HAM might complain about the repo not being *the* repo23:48
UberNeodoee updating to CSSU will solve my errors of GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed . for QT/QML based application23:49
freemangordonSc0rpius: hmm?23:50
merlin1991this repo mess is a mess23:52
freemangordonSc0rpius: care to explain what problem you have with cssu-thumb(if any)23:53
Sc0rpiusnot a problem, but I feel the phone slower23:53
Sc0rpiusmicrob renders way faster, yes23:53
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Sc0rpiusbut the rest of the applications feel slower to me, but like I said, I'm not sure23:53
freemangordonSc0rpius: check your transitions.ini23:53
UberNeoso it means I should not enable CSSU23:54
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freemangordonSc0rpius: BTW I would really appreciate if you provide some quantative feedback23:54
freemangordon(if possible)23:55
freemangordonSc0rpius: as all the benchmarks I did so far either give > 20-50% speedup (openssl) or 1-2% speedup23:56
freemangordonnothing i've tested was slower when thumb-compiled, but it is more than possible that I am missing something23:57
freemangordonthat is why i'd appreciate to be proven wrong :)23:58
kerioSc0rpius: maybe applications feel slower compared to the thumby programs?23:58

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